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Point of order, Mr Speaker!

Written By: - Date published: 3:06 pm, October 17th, 2013 - 35 comments
Categories: accountability, democracy under attack, greens, Metiria Turei, same old national - Tags: , , ,

John Banks pants on fire

So Metiria Turei got thrown out of the Chamber for… what?

Calling the government’s Sky City deal “sleazy”?  Or because she raised a point of Order about it?

It arose during the supplementaries for this Question in Question Time today

2. METIRIA TUREI to the Minister for Economic Development: Has Cabinet discussed delaying the passage of the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill until the Hon John Banks prosecution is resolved; if not, why not?

Earlier the Speaker had indignantly told Grant Robertson off for questioning the Speaker’s impartiality.

Even As fake (?) Patrick Gower is now questioning the competence of the Speaker, says in this Tweet:

Put more simply, @DavidCarterMP is not able to provide consistent, impartial rulings and he needs to step down. #nzqt

The primary question is an important one.  How can John Banks provide an impartial vote on the SkyCity Bill?  It should be delayed!

[Update 1] NRT has a good post on it. [h/t Lynn]

If anyone was in any doubt, we’ve had proof today that David Carter is unfit to be Speaker. First, he ruled a question asked by Metiria Turei which began with a reference to a “sleazy deal” out of order. Then, when asked, he said that that was not unparliamentary language. Finally, when then asked to justify his given this apparent contradiction, he threw her out. The obvious conclusion: Carter’s decision was unjustifiable.

35 comments on “Point of order, Mr Speaker!”

    • karol 1.1

      Thanks, I’ll link to it.

      I was hoping to further update the post when news reports and/or the videos and transcript go online.

  1. tamati 2

    Meh,

    I don’t think she’ll be too upset about being thrown out. It means she’ll make the six o’clock news.

  2. Pascal's bookie 3

    fake Paddy Gower acct?

  3. Sosoo 4

    They’re desperate.

    Cunliffe and co need to put them out of their misery.

  4. Tony Moder 5

    They are getting torn collective new ones(national) new ones in parliament these days.

  5. TheContrarian 6

    Carter is hopeless.

  6. felix 7

    It’s not the decision that’s at issue, it’s his refusal (inability) to explain it.

    For those who can’t see the videos, the short version goes like this:

    “Yr questionz is out of orderz!”

    “O rly why?”

    “Lolz! Not telling!”

    “Yeah lolz, but srsly why?”

    “Get out!!”

    So there’s now no point even bothering trying to phrase questions to be in order, because the Speaker refuses to give any indication of what that means.

    Getting close to boycott time I reckon.

    • karol 7.1

      Excellent explanation, felix.

      The question was very important too, in its own right.

    • QoT 7.2

      I actually think a boycott is not the worst thing in the world for the Opposition to consider.

      Given that the Government isn’t being held to account anyway, that the majority of not-politically-active Kiwis probably don’t give much of a fuck about what happens during Question Time, and the ones who do will be just as interested in a piece of political performance art …

      The only harm is in how it gets spun by the media, and a few well-placed lines like “Well, we were really just spending a couple of hours a day being forced to listen to John Key make really terrible dad-jokes, so we think this is a much better use of the taxpayer’s time and money” sorts that.

      • felix 7.2.1

        You had me at “political performance art.”

      • Pascal's bookie 7.2.2

        not opposed to a boycott, but it should be the last reosrt. They shoudl move a no confidence in the speaker thingie first.

        I’d also start raising points of order after every single question asking why the speaker didn’t rule that question out of order.

  7. tc 8

    See why lockwood slung his hook with the toxic matter carter has to pass in the grand sale second term.
    this plays into the greens hands, skycity is another gift from greedy gods for the opposition.

  8. Clement Pinto 9

    I was very shocked at the Speaker’s stupid ruling. It was unfair, unintelligent and seemed very biased. Didn’t make sense at all. His conduct was very unbecoming and cringe worthy. I think he owes an apology to Mrs Metiria Turie and to the house.

    Or, may be he should resign in favour of someone else less prejudiced and more able.

    • North 9.1

      Frankly, I love Carter’s bullshit speakership.

      Adds to the pudding of ShonKey Python’s rigged games.

      Thing is more and more people find that pudding’s yuk. More and more know now. About the rigged games. And the lies. And the snotty little schoolboy when he’s lost.

      This Head Prefect just adds to the ever creeping stench.

      Good stuff ! Go David Carter !

      Most Of All Go The GOOD David !!!

  9. Tracey 10

    we can see why lockwood has to go, carter gives the nats a free ride. they really under estimated lockwoods integrity when they appointed him. must have assumed his ethics were in the sewer with his

  10. Rodel 11

    Yeah but think how much this absolute stupid nonsense game playing is costing us per hour.
    (All of them)
    I’d love to see them all digging up and fixing the Christchurch roads..i.e. doing something useful- and don’t try to tell me this is value for my money…it isn’t. Jeez ..I work for my money and a third of it goes on this crap..I repeat… ( to all of them!)
    Hey I love the Brown/ Banks/ Carter/etc etc Dramas but it’s quite expensive. entertainment but Fox News or radio ritalin is cheaper.

  11. BLiP 12

    sleazy
    ˈsliːzi/

    adjective

    1. (of a person or situation) sordid, corrupt, or immoral. “a sleazy Prime Minister engaged in sleazy lying to cover a sleazy deal favouring his sleazy mates”

    synonyms: corrupt, immoral, sordid, unsavoury, unpleasant, disreputable.

    As John Key has said . . .

    the Sky City deal will provide 1000 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs

    all five bidders for the convention centre were treated equally

    my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal

    I did not mislead the House (8)

    I can’t remember what was discussed at my meeting with the SkyCity Chief Executive on 14 May 2009

    I have no record of the 12 November 2009 email from Treasury advising that the SkyCity deal was dodgy and needed to be referred to the Auditor General

    there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal

    SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins

    any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process

    Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land

    I did not mislead the House (9)

    this government has been very transparent about all its dealings with SkyCity

    I did not mislead the House (10)

    the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal

    I did not mislead the House (11)

    the Deputy Auditor General supports the view that there was nothing inappropriate about the Sky City deal

    I did not mislead the House (12)

    I did not breach the confidentiality of the Auditor General’s Report into the Sky City deal

    the Labour Government did exactly the same sort of deal back in 2001

  12. i have done commentaries on q-time under three different speakers..

    ..and carter is an utter shocker..

    ..and his clear pro-govt biases/irrational-‘calls’ have turned q-time into a farce..

    ..and on a more serious note..

    ..in the only forum where the govt can be held to account..

    ..the speaker serially enables key/govt ministers to avoid that ‘account’..

    ..and as such..carter as speaker is a corrosive anti-democracy-agent..

    ..as armstrong noted yesterday..the speaker allows key to just not answer questions..

    ..and then backs up that serial-avoiding with his catch-phrase..

    ..’the minister/prime minister has addressed the question’..

    ..and of course..any questioning of his irrational/biased-rulings..

    ..just brings bullying-threats of ejection from parliament..

    ..as happened with turei yesterday..

    ..anyone with half a brain watching that encounter..

    ..can see that irrational-bias from carter on clear display..

    ..the man is a total bad-joke as a speaker..

    ..and from ovberving him..i reckon much of his bluster is a result of him not being quick enough to keep up with those he is meant to (impartially) oversee..

    ..i understand carter is an effective businessman..one of the richest in parliament..(a major animal concentration camp owner/operator..)

    ..so he has some obvious skills in that area..

    ..but he is lacking in not having a brain able to keep up with what is going on..

    ..that combined with his rampant pro-govt bias..

    ..makes for a serious attack on democracy in our country..

    ..the sooner he is gone..the better..

    ..every session of q-time..carter..in/by his rulings/bias..has me lifting my lower-jaw from the ground..

    ..at his latest outrage..

    ..phillip ure…

  13. appleboy 14

    National are total scum. They defending Banks by saying that Labour can’t talk, re Phillip Field etc. What, so National did not attack Labour over him , or Benson Pope? National were far more extreme in their attacks – I remember Judith Collins’s vitriolic attacks going way too far – calling someone out as a paedophile in her in the house banter.

    National make me sick.

  14. greywarbler 15

    What’s happening in this country? Now the Speaker chastising Metiria Turei for asking questions about his irrational ruling about the word sleazy which he said she couldn’t use despite it not being classed as a forbidden word. http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/50HansQ_20131017_00000002/2-new-zealand-international-convention-centre-bill—passage

    What a dumbing down of Parliament and frank and honest discussion by one of our herd of NACT political animals. I have put a copy of Metiria’s efforts to achieve respectful consideration of her request to the Speaker to explain his ruling.

    It shows the present system in the House in a bad light, and I think that the Speaker is using his powers to obstruct the Opposition in its duty to oversee Government dealings. (Cf the USA Speaker’s role in the recent damaging blow to democracy.)

    Here is what should be required reading for all dealing with politicians. I’ll also put it in the Friday slot as it is a source of humour, and I think some of us are badly in need of some laugh fodder for our herd. Steven Price, lawyer put down some inspired ironic advice on dealing with politicians which should be collected by activists as a national treasure.
    http://www.medialawjournal.co.nz/?p=103

    Metiria Turei : Will the Minister meet with the victims of problem gambling and explain to them why he feels comfortable using the vote of a disgraced MP to pass a law that will increase the harm that problem gambling causes to our communities?

    Hon STEVEN JOYCE : Everybody has a different view on what is disgraceful, and I think it is actually reasonably disgraceful to run a political campaign with taxpayers’ money during a term, but that is just my view. Of course, what is allowed to be done is allowed to be done. But my view on that is that every human activity involves some risk and every risk has to be managed, and that is what happens. The member, unless she is proposing to ban casinos and ban all gambling and ban lotteries, has no right to lecture me on that subject.

    Metiria Turei : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I expressly asked the Minister whether he will meet—
    Mr SPEAKER : Order! The question was far more loaded than that.
    Metiria Turei : Is this not the truth of the matter, Minister, that the Skycity bill—[Interruption ]
    Mr SPEAKER : Order! The member has a right to ask a supplementary question.
    Metiria Turei : Is it not the truth of the matter that the Skycity bill is a sleazy deal in which his Government trades harm—
    Mr SPEAKER : Order! That question is now out of order.
    Metiria Turei : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.
    Mr SPEAKER : I just want to check, first of all, that the member is not going to question the decision I have just made.
    Metiria Turei : No, I am not going to question your decision. I would like your reasoning as to why you now consider that question out of order. [Interruption ]

    Mr SPEAKER : Order! I do not need assistance. The member can just go back and look at the wording of her question and some of the words she used in that question, and I am sure she will figure it out for herself.
    Metiria Turei : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.
    Mr SPEAKER : Can I just again clarify that we are not in any way questioning a ruling.
    Metiria Turei : I am not questioning your decision.
    Mr SPEAKER : Then I will hear a fresh point of order.

    Metiria Turei : Does your ruling now mean that the word “sleazy” is a prohibited word in this Parliament?
    Mr SPEAKER : No, it does not.
    Metiria Turei : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

    Mr SPEAKER : Can I just remind the member, because she is getting very, very close to having to be asked to leave the Chamber, that if she continues to raise points of order that I consider are trifling with the Chair, Speakers’ rulings—Speaker’s ruling 20/8 from memory—will suggest that she leaves me with no choice.

    Metiria Turei : I understand.
    Mr SPEAKER : OK, we will hear one more—hopefully one more—point of order.
    Metiria Turei : At the point that you declared my question out of order, which is your right to do so, the only phrase I had used was “sleazy deal”. I am not sure—

    Mr SPEAKER : Order! [Interruption ] Order! The member will resume her seat. I have ruled the question out of order. That is the end of the matter. It is not something that is relitigated in this House.

    Grant Robertson : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It has been the practice under your term as Speaker for members both of the Government and of Opposition parties to seek clarification from you on rulings. It is a perfectly legitimate part of all the time that I have been in the Chamber that that has been done, and that when a ruling appears to be a new one, members have the right to raise points of order with you and you have in the past responded. Or, if not that day, you come back with a considered ruling to explain why you made the ruling you made. I think that would be the appropriate course in this case.

  15. captain hook 16

    carter is just another tory lowbrow who either got his money by ineritance or beating up onhis workers.
    Rational arguments are beyond his level of intellectual development.

    • greywarbler 16.1

      Know your Speaker – aka Mr No.
      For some time I have thought that the state of the knowledge, and decision making ability of our MPs was pretty low and a better indication of the standard of our education system than worrying about the alienated 5%. (They should be handled in a different way, by ‘extension’ schools like charter schools but not a free-for-all private mish-mash.)

      No the real attention should be put on the elite colleges so their students actually learn what pragmatic and intelligent people need to know so they can live in a united and diverse community in the 21st century.

      David Carter, present Speaker of the House: some bio bits from Wikipedia.
      Carter attended St Bede’s College in Christchurch, and has a Bachelor of Agricultural Science degree from Lincoln University. He has farmed sheep and cattle for over thirty years, and established the first commercial cattle-embryo transplant company in New Zealand in 1974.

      He took over Selwyn from Ruth Richardson in 1994, won Banks P.against Ruth Dyson, who won it back, and he has been on the List since then. In 2008 he was up for Selwyn but that was discussed and it went to Amy Adams, who won the seat. He was put high on the list. Probably in exchange for him not contesting for the seat. Now he is possibly having the Speaker position as a swansong gesture.

      Previous high points.
      He has been Associate Minister for different ministries. After NACTs win in 2008 he took the portfolios of Agriculture, Biosecurity and Forestry.

      As – Minister of Agriculture
      In May 2010, Carter issued a ban on kosher slaughter, rejecting the recommendations of his advisers.[5] Carter held shares in a firm which exports meat and prior to instituting the ban he met senior managers of the firm who wanted a ban
      on kosher slaughter to reduce their competition.

      As – Minister of Primary Industries[edit]
      After the 2011 election, Carter was appointed Minister to the newly formed Ministry of Primary Industries. In November 2012, Carter approved the increased squid fishery SQU6T by 140%, despite recommendations from scientists and the Department of Conservation that this would be detrimental to the endangered New Zealand Sea Lion

  16. aerobubble 17

    The Loop is necessary to Auckland. But would have disturbed the business of gamblers. So obviously this was a grave threat to the NZ economy. Now we can’t talk about this since the new subway station will funnel addicted gamblers to SkyCity doors. And Sky City obviously wuld need more pokies to handle them, and they would come as pokies were disappearing elsewhere. It was a easy ask if there had been an honest public forum in NZ, what? SkyCity you would suffer loses, hells bells you will recoup them easy in now time, and no! you aren’t owed an extension to your license.

    But no! What happen was a fraud, in my belief, on the country. Key destroyed democracy, removing an auction for a gambling license extension that would have made NZ taxpayers millions, and knockoff some land from TVNZ and built the casino a conference centre on top of the subway.
    A conference center that also should have been tendered.

    So SkyCity wins, wins, wins, more patrons, more pokies, bigger site, a license extension and a conference center, exactly what has SkyCity given up, a road being dug up to increase the passing traffic!!!!! Geez, give me braodband and I’ll not mind the jackhammers for a week.

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    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
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    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
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