Polity: Proof

Written By: - Date published: 8:48 am, August 21st, 2014 - 100 comments
Categories: john key - Tags: , ,

polity_square_for_lynnReposted from Polity

Here’s a tweet from Felix Marwick this morning:

This is very serious. To remind you, here are parts of Key’s interview with Guyon Espiner on Monday:

Espiner: Did that [SIS OIA] request come across your desk?
Key: No.

Espiner: So, you’re the Minister responsible for the SIS, yet you did not sign off on that request?
Key: No.

Espiner: You had no knowledge that a request had been made?
Key: I knew there were requests, cos, you know, yeah I would have known because generally they say “there’s a series of requests in to the SIS or the GCSB. But they often – well they always sign off on things on their own timetable.

Thanks to Marwick, we now know the truth in this matter.

At best, Key’s set of answers is “extremely economical.” In fact, it shows a clear intention to mislead the public and cover up Key’s gatekeeper role in releasing security documents to a partisan friend to attack a partisan opponent. That is awful. Just awful.

 

 

Filed image

NewstalkZB: “Further evidence Key knew about OIA”
Key should resign over SIS information bungle – Goff

Phil Goff’s welcoming a spy watchdog’s investigation, into how Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater got information about him from the SIS.

He believes the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security will find proof Mr Ede was involved.

“He knew when he was originally intended to receive them, how would he know that unless told by the 9th floor of the Beehive?

“He knew what the content of the documents were – that didn’t come from the SIS, that came from the Prime Minister’s department.”

Mr Goff says it looks like Mr Key abused his power as minister in charge of the spy agency, and he should resign as Prime Minister.

100 comments on “Polity: Proof ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Dont worry. Be happy 1
    21 August 2014 at 8:51 am

    Resign John Key. You lied one too many times and now its all on the record. Bare faced lie. Resign.

    • You_Fool 1.1
      21 August 2014 at 9:46 am

      You will find that he will argue that he didn’t lie:
      He said it didn’t cross his desk and according to that letter no paperwork crossed his desk.
      He said he didn’t sign off on it, and once more the letter confirms that he didn’t see any paper work, and thus didn’t “sign off” on anything (he may of said go ahead but that is a different question.)
      He didn’t say he hadn’t heard of the request, he didn’t even deny knowing about it, he deflected by saying that a lot of requests come in and he is informed of them, and if you re-read his statement he even says he knew of the request, he just hid it in random words and implied that he didn’t know of it specifically because stuff.

      However this does show JK’s shifty nature and how he tries to use language to put impressions in peoples minds that are not correct, nor what he actually said.

      • Akldnut 1.1.1
        21 August 2014 at 11:05 am

        Tranzrail eyes and lies coming home to roost years later.

        Hone was so right, slippery liar to say the absolute least.

    • Tracey 2.1
      21 August 2014 at 9:10 am

      herald has grabbed it and stated Key said he never personally was told

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11311764

      • gobsmacked 2.1.1
        21 August 2014 at 9:14 am

        That quote pre-dates this morning’s developments. Annoyingly, both Stuff and the Herald tend to add to an existing story without putting in update times (as other overseas sites do).

        AFAIK, Key hasn’t responded this morning.

        • Tracey 2.1.1.1
          21 August 2014 at 9:33 am

          That was my point though, he said before today that he was never personally told. Today reveals that lie. How the herald has chosen to frame it is very black and white against John Key.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1
            21 August 2014 at 9:37 am

            SIS giving him wiggle-room, PM = Office of the PM.

            I’m not buying it. Key wasn’t “told” – he did the telling.

            • Weepus beard 2.1.1.1.1.1
              21 August 2014 at 9:52 am

              Can’t see how they can. It states no written correspondence with the PM’s office, then goes on to state Tucker informed the PM. These two statement clearly set out what is the PM’s office and what is the PM and also that there was no written correspondence and so by definition there was verbal correspondence – with the PM.

              Or am I reading that wrong?

              • Tracey …
                21 August 2014 at 9:54 am

                he uses the words “Prime Minister” 3 times and Prime Minister’s Office once.

                he clearly understands the difference, which is heartening given his salary.

                • Weepus beard …
                  21 August 2014 at 10:02 am

                  If the statement from (the PM’s office?) saying “the SIS considers informing the PM’s office to be the same as informing the PM,” is to be believed then Mr. Tucker must have spoken to someone in the PM’s office.

                  Who, then, was it?

                  Only Mr. Tucker and the person he spoke to will know I suppose.

                  • Tracey …
                    21 August 2014 at 10:04 am

                    makes you wonder why Tucker made the distinction in his reply then, between the PMO and the PM…

                  • mickysavage …
                    21 August 2014 at 12:15 pm

                    Marwick has released a further letter which blows an even bigger hole in Key’s story. Tucker sought legal advice on how much of the discussion should be released under the OIA. The letter says that there was “good reason to with-hold Dr Tucker’s full recollection of his discussion with the Prime Minister”. The letter is crystal clear. Tucker wanted to know if he had to disclose details of his discussion with Key, you know the discussion that Key said never happened.

                    Pants on fire …

                    http://t.co/pJC6jipC8q

                    • Bill …
                      21 August 2014 at 12:25 pm

                      http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/images/pdfs/ombusdman-21aug2014.pdf

                      Not intending to be pernickety, but here’s a pdf direct and readable link to the document I think you’re referring to. The text in your original twitter link is too small to be read and involves jumping through further links to get a readable version.

                    • Weepus beard …
                      21 August 2014 at 12:34 pm

                      That’s even more clear. I cannot see any room for misinterpreting that.

                      Has Mr Tucker been bought and paid for by the National government, or, as Tom Jackson suggests above, he doesn’t want to get the blame for this mess?

                    • ianmac …
                      21 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

                      Good news just when it seemed that the case was not clearcut against Mr Key, whammo! It is possible that the quick off the mark from the Auditor General is because she has read those letters and can see that there is a nasty smell.
                      Key is relieved that there is an enquiry because hecan say no comment while there is an investigation going on. Hrrrph!

                    • politikiwi …
                      21 August 2014 at 1:04 pm

                      It is dancing on the head of a pin to suggest “discussion with the Prime Minister” in that context means discussions with someone at his office.

                      It’s just not credible.

                    • Tracey …
                      21 August 2014 at 1:11 pm

                      yup. Can we call it serial arson yet?!?

                      It also means that the SIS and or PMs office are lying by their clarification today

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.2
        21 August 2014 at 9:15 am

        Too late for that. Note Key’s very tricky turn of phrase. Of course it didn’t go across his desk for him to sign: Tucker got his instructions face-to-face.

  3. disturbed 3
    21 August 2014 at 9:08 am

    Dirty Politics: Free speech & a policy-free election
    by Wayne Mapp National Party.
    “Is the Dirty Politics debate making a mockery of the manifestos? And should authors have the right to right to use material that’s obtained by criminal means?”

    Mapp asks do they have the right to use material that’s obtained by criminal means?

    He presents the argument that we should have free speech but does want a policy debate during this election.

    We agree, but as National has broken all rules during the last election to smear the Labour leader using illegally obtained fast tracked SIS information to conduct that election rather than discussing policies, well we have to say why did National do last election what Wayne Mapp is asking we not do this election?
    Did National have the right to use material that’s obtained by criminal means?

    Judith Collins has gone to ground and press cant find her, while John Key wont take press questions as of 9am this morning (like Nixon did) we need to find out what this Government’s policies are on law and how they intend conducting themselves going forward.

    That is another policy we believe to be as important as Health, housing Schools, transport, and poverty.

    • Tracey 3.1
      21 August 2014 at 9:34 am

      can you find anything where he says national party staffers and sympathisers taking stuff from labour’s website was wrong? That Judith needs to go, or has even done anything wrong?

      As for his policy line. labour and Greens have released far more policy than National. I bet he overlooked that.

  4. Tracey 4
    21 August 2014 at 9:08 am

    flashback to when Ms Clark was lambasted by Key for knowing that Peters and Glenn’s versions of the donation were different but didn’t tell the public.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rVuJ9b0IRU&feature=youtu.be

    and his Press release in August 2008

    National Party Leader John Key says Winston Peters would be unacceptable as a Minister in a government led by him unless Mr Peters can provide a credible explanation on the Owen Glenn saga.

    “Labour Party donor Owen Glenn’s letter to the Privileges Committee completely contradicts Winston Peters’ version of events about the substantial $100,000 donation made by Mr Glenn to Mr Peters’ legal costs.

    “Mr Glenn’s letter represents a direct challenge to Mr Peters’ credibility, from the only other person in the world in a position to know the facts.

    “From Parliament’s point of view, the Privileges Committee provides an appropriate vehicle to resolve the points of conflict and to hold individuals to account. But from the Prime Minister’s and the Government’s point of view, that is not enough.

    “Governments and Ministers must enjoy the confidence of the Parliament and, ultimately, the public. Faced with today’s revelations, it is no longer acceptable for Mr Peters to offer bluster and insults where simple, courteous, honest answers are required.

    “It is no longer acceptable or credible for Helen Clark to assert a facade of confidence in her Foreign Affairs Minister and to fail to ask the plain questions of him that she has a duty to the public to ask.

    “Faced with today’s revelations, Helen Clark must stand Mr Peters down as a Minister. That is what I would do if I were Prime Minister. Helen Clark has stood Ministers from Labour down for much less .

    “Unless he can provide a credible explanation about this serious issue, he should be unacceptable to Helen Clark as a Minister in her Labour-led Government.

    “Mr Peters will be unacceptable as a Minister in a government led by me unless he can provide a credible explanation.”

    Right Honourable John Key – August 2008 – National Party Press Release

    SO, when labour ran their 2008 campaign on Trust, and not being able to Trust Key, they were right, they just couldn’t prove it.

  5. One Anonymous Bloke 5
    21 August 2014 at 9:09 am

    Key told the “truth”. He didn’t “sign” it off: he gave spoken instructions to Tucker.

    Tricky lying Prime Minister is tricky.

    • Tracey 5.1
      21 August 2014 at 9:13 am

      Maybe but we know what he DID lie about, and that is now proven. And the Herald puts it like this

      “Mr Key said that while his office was told the information was being sent to Slater, he personally wasn’t told.”

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1
        21 August 2014 at 9:18 am

        That’s them paraphrasing, isn’t it? Check Key’s actual quotes. He has used forms of words to give that impression without stating it.

        Classic and very experienced; you don’t pick up skills like that overnight.

        • gobsmacked 5.1.1.1
          21 August 2014 at 9:21 am

          Check the Newstalk ZB link above. He said “I wasn’t told”. Quote.

          You can hear the audio on Marwick’s Twitter.

          • Te Reo Putake 5.1.1.1.1
            21 August 2014 at 9:25 am

            The link to that lie again: http://chirb.it/406NhK

            “I wasn’t told”. Yeah right.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.2
            21 August 2014 at 9:26 am

            He says “I wasn’t told [draws breath] it went out…”

            No Mr. Key, they told you before, not afterwards. Well, that is to say you told them.

            So that’s true too: he wasn’t “told” – he gave instructions to that effect, so it was him doing the telling.

            None of this matters because he’s going to look even worse if he tries to explain things that way 😆

        • Tracey 5.1.1.2
          21 August 2014 at 9:35 am

          Yes it is. My point was that the HERALD chose to paraphrase it that way which looks very damaging to key.

    • RedLogix 5.2
      21 August 2014 at 9:17 am

      Which is why he appointed his mate to the role – someone who would undertake ‘spoken’ instructions without a paper trail.

      Someone more familiar with the inner workings at this level of the public service may have a better understanding of this – but it strikes me that here is Key’s most damaging culpability.

  6. One Anonymous Bloke 6
    21 August 2014 at 9:22 am

    Whaledump promising last political post today. I suppose the rest will be industrial, and there was me hoping for something juicy for the National conference. Can’t complain I guess, and who knows, I may yet get a surprise 😆

    Key has a lot on his plate. Nom nom nom, Prime Minister.

  7. North 7
    21 August 2014 at 9:27 am

    TheGodKey has lost it in his lies. Tucker spoke to him PERSONALLY. He must go. Oh hang on……to whom would fall the task of sacking Collins. Aha…….Bill English. Pas de problem !

  8. gobsmacked 8
    21 August 2014 at 9:30 am

    And right on cue …

    “In a statement this morning a spokesperson says the SIS considers informing the Prime Minister’s office to be informing the Prime Minister and Mr Key stands by the statements he made yesterday.”

    (Newstalk ZB, see link at comment 2).

    • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1
      21 August 2014 at 9:35 am

      Yeah let’s see how that plays out 🙂

    • Tracey 8.2
      21 August 2014 at 9:40 am

      good for the spokesperson BUT Mr Tucker is VERY clear in his letter.

      here is the no surprises OIA policy for those who still don’t know.

      “.. In terms of providing the information to the Minister’s Office, this is required of the Ministry as part of the “no surprises” approach. All requests made under the Official Information Act, regardless of their content and nature, must be provided to the Responsible Minister for their information as part of this approach. The “no surprises” approach is consistent with guidelines provided by the State Services Commission and the Cabinet Manual which emphasise that a Department or Ministry ought to advise the Responsible Minister of issues that may be discussed in the public arena or that may require a ministerial response, preferably ahead of time or otherwise as soon as possible”

      Given Collins email exploits, her oravida assistance, he leaking public servants names, and now speaking tot he Minister, doesn’t mean speaking tot he minister, what DO these highly paid cabinet members do for NZ? I mean John key and Ms Collins both seem to be doing alot of stuff but none of it is working for NZ

    • North 8.3
      21 August 2014 at 10:02 am

      Tucker’s letter proceeds in the first person. The personal pronoun ‘I’ is used 7 times. Personal contact would seem to be consistent with an exercise in which there was no trail of written documentation.

      Perhaps to avoid social embarrassment Key’s minders should let him know he pongs to high heaven, such is the mountain of shit by which he so regularly barefaced ‘stands’.

      • Tracey 8.3.1
        21 August 2014 at 10:12 am

        I worked for someone who was so scared of incurring legal action that he/she micromanaged the shit out of the place and paralysed the practice. As a result she/he was cponstantly getting letters from governing body and clients and spent all her/his time managing that rather than the work we were all supposed to be doing…

        sounds similar. None of these folks are actually doing government work.

        even no surprises policy is about bad media and not good government

  9. Brian 9
    21 August 2014 at 9:39 am

    Waits for the brain fade……..

  10. Tom Gould 10
    21 August 2014 at 9:40 am

    According to media, a group of Young Nationals is planning a book burning. Little more needs saying, really. Key has been silent. I guess fascist parties are so predictable.

    • Tracey 10.1
      21 August 2014 at 9:43 am

      That should help sales. I guess the last thing they want is to see the SST top ten books list

      with JOHN key’s face above or below the Dirty Politics

    • cogito 10.2
      21 August 2014 at 9:54 am

      Echoes of Hitler retreating to his bunker… Key has been a Hitler clone from day one and has had this coming to him.

      • Tracey 10.2.1
        21 August 2014 at 9:57 am

        Could you change that to any other dictator, otherwise this will be derailed by Godwin’s law. Apparently only comparison’s to hitler are not okay. You could use Pinochet I think.

  11. Mike 11
    21 August 2014 at 9:50 am

    What a sad bunch of conspiracy theorists you left wing people are. Has it occured to you that your electorate the “so-called” disadvantaged couldn’t give a rats arse about Dirty Politics – they are too busy surviving. God help us if you get near the reins of power.

    • vto 11.1
      21 August 2014 at 9:53 am

      What a bad bunch of conspirators you right wing people are. Has it occurred to you that your electorate the “selfish and greedy” over-privileged are scum like rats who have been caught in a rat-trap – too busy being arseholes and shitting on their neighbours.
      God help us if you remain in power.

    • Tracey 11.2
      21 August 2014 at 9:59 am

      How would you know a single thing about the disadvantaged when your party and most of its supporters keep telling us everyone is okee dokee in Nu Zilund and nothing to see here but a surplus of born out of creative accounting, shafting CHCHCH and…

      read the book, then you will see exactly how much the Right “cares” about people.

    • North 11.3
      21 August 2014 at 10:36 am

      You’re whistling in the dark Mike while shitting your pants……terrified that the ‘low rent’ people you sneer about ARE interested AND concerned and WILL vote acccordingly. Come out with a definitive counter to what Hager says. Some no holds barred denials. Clean, honest denials backed up by evidence. And a couple of lawsuits. No one has to date. Oh except TheGodKey who one day ‘sort of does’ and the next day ‘sort of doesn’t’.

      You can do none of the above. So enough of your whining you ignorant snivelling joke of a person.

      • Mike 11.3.1
        21 August 2014 at 1:16 pm

        And how will that help the disadvantaged???

        • North 11.3.1.1
          21 August 2014 at 9:33 pm

          You running the discredited bullshit “Ooooh Metiria’s got a flash coat !” are you Mike ? Come up with something to counter the conspiracists you nut on about – instead of being a shallow mouthy wanker.

  12. philj 12
    21 August 2014 at 10:00 am

    xox
    The mechanics of obsfucation and machination sound very familiar to the Dunne/Vance breach of privacy last year. This resulted in the resignation of Chief of Parliamentary Services, Geoff Horn, after communication from PM’s Chief of Staff, Wayne Eagleson. Very interesting times…

  13. Tracey 13
    21 August 2014 at 10:06 am

    Does anyone know where Collins, Key, Slater and Banks were on the night of April 4 2014?

    I’m just wondering cos if they all were in one place, that would create quite an inferno?

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Suppression-remains-for-storage-fire-arson-accused/tabid/423/articleID/354408/Default.aspx

  14. Tom Gould 14
    21 August 2014 at 10:11 am

    So if Tucker didn’t do it in writing, who in the PMs office did he speak to? Was it Jason Ede?

  15. yeshe 15
    21 August 2014 at 10:29 am

    Oh, yes, let’s have a book burning in Aotearoa in 2014. Way to go young nats in Waikato; such clear and impressive thinking. Can’t wait to see the international news reports.

    But on another stream — we all believe Collins has something very big on Key so he won’t fire her.

    How about this — is it Slater who has something very big on Key and is running protection for
    Collins ?

    Slater is quoted as saying everyone in politics should be afraid of him ( can’t remember link as so many going on) …

    As off the wall as it might sound, could this thought have some little legs to it … ??

    edit: Maybe this is off thread so I shall post again in Open Mike … sorry !

  16. The Bonfire 16
    21 August 2014 at 10:32 am

    Yep, Labour Party staffers should be putting in OIA requests to the Prime Ministers’ Office and to the SIS to ask for the names of the staff members briefed by Tucker. The good money is Ede.

  17. ianmac 17
    21 August 2014 at 10:34 am

    The process inside halls of power is to document every action. It is possible that oral instructions were exchanged but the notification of an OIA must have at the very least a note on a file.
    eg: Informed PM of release of document xxxx/2005 3:45pm. or something. And surely such things are logged in the Minister’s Office?
    Investigation should be interesting.

  18. Hayden 18
    21 August 2014 at 10:40 am

    The leaked whaledump information, assuming it’s true, seem to show that Slater knew when it was coming and that it had been expedited:

    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 8/2, 9:03am

    Should be a big day tomorrow

    if my PO Box has a nice brown envelope with OHMS on it
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 8/2, 9:04am

    oh, whats that about?
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 8/2, 9:05am

    I OIAd the briefing minutes and notes for Goff’s SIS briefing

    it has been expedited

    in the public interest
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 8/2, 9:05am

    oh yes
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 8/2, 9:06am

    it is devastating for Goff I am told

  19. clashman 19
    21 August 2014 at 10:54 am

    Question to those more “beltway” than myself

    Is the Tucker letter considered an official document and is it normal or acceptable to use “shorthand” if it is?

  20. rob 20
    21 August 2014 at 11:27 am

    I start drinking when John Key says its just a left wing smear campaign. I have been hungover for the past week..

  21. Bill 21
    21 August 2014 at 12:32 pm

    So, lets assume that Key really did not have knowledge of the request. That means that he didn’t ‘okay’ the release.

    But his office is staffed by employees. Or do have that wrong? If I’m not wrong on that, then he’s asking us to accept that unelected employees in his office make unilateral decisions on whether or not to authorise the release of material by the SIS.

    What would you do if you were the PM and some fucker usurped your authority like that?

    • ianmac 21.1
      21 August 2014 at 12:50 pm

      Very true Bill. Damned if the PM didn’t know what his staff were doing and damned if he did know and damned if he did do it himself. Ever been caught in a jam?

      • Bill 21.1.1
        21 August 2014 at 1:00 pm

        I’m just waiting for Goff to unspring him from all of this in some spectacular fashion. Seriously – why is the guy saying anything at all? (His fucking ego?) It’s simply not necessary for him to engage. The info is out there and being discussed and no-one in Labour needs to go anywhere near it.

        • Tracey 21.1.1.1
          21 August 2014 at 1:20 pm

          yup. Goff is allowing light to shine on his lie too.

          Cunliffe should speak, if anyone and call for key to resign.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.1.1.1
            21 August 2014 at 11:25 pm

            He (Cunliffe) already has. As for Goff, why have a dog and bark yourself?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.2
      21 August 2014 at 11:06 pm

      @Bill: I’d give them a gong or throw them under a bus depending on the circumstances. Especially if in truth they were doing my bidding the whole time, whilst maintaining a veneer of deniability.

      If they win the election he’ll resign and be pardoned by Joyce, if they lose he’ll be gone, and good luck getting that extradition warrant honoured.

  22. yeshe 22
    21 August 2014 at 12:38 pm

    post from whaledump 2 mins ago .. sez the grown ups are talking now so whaledump will be back later .. refs the Marwick letter we’ve seen this morning … https://twitter.com/whaledump

    Ombudsman office seems to confirm Key DISCUSSED the release with Tucker while refusing to release whole discussion under OIA …

    • Tim 22.1
      21 August 2014 at 12:49 pm

      Hey yeshe – it’s not the same letter. It’s a letter from the Ombudsmen to NewsTalkZB, assessing ZB’s complaint about their OIA. The Ombudsmen refers explicitly to “discussions” between the PM and the SIS. I’d judge the second document as more incriminating than the first – you can’t have a “discussion” with the PM’s office in general, in the way you could inform the office by email, say.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 22.2
      21 August 2014 at 12:59 pm

      I guess we will now have push back from Key where he claims that ‘discussion with the PM’ doesnt involve him at all and is shorthand for ‘ do I look like a guy who knows whats going on’

      Its way past time to let him him spin words every which way and start saying ‘are you being tricky Pm? or ‘are you being economical with the truth?’

      • Tracey 22.2.1
        21 August 2014 at 1:22 pm

        What about this

        “Who is lying mr key, you or warren tucker?”

      • Macro 22.2.2
        21 August 2014 at 1:48 pm

        Key just doesn’t know any other way.
        What we see now is so ingrained he simply cannot tell the truth. His perception of reality is now so distorted by the constant web of deceit he has been spinning for the poor deluded fools such as P R, that he really has lost his grip on what is is true and what is not.

  23. disturbed 23
    21 August 2014 at 1:45 pm

    cognito,

    He is following the Hitler plan to the tee read the method they used,

    1/First take over the media.
    2/ second close down anyone who would speak against the Government
    3/ Third contain the political opponents
    4/ Forth convict and intern the dissenters.
    5/ burn any literature against the Governmrnt.

    And the rest is history.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/goebbels.html

    Goebbels’s deeply rooted contempt for humanity, his urge to sow confusion, hatred and intoxication, his lust for power and his mastery of the techniques of mass persuasion were given full vent in the election campaigns of 1932, when he played a crucial role in bringing Hitler to the centre of the political stage. He was rewarded on 13 March 1933 with the position of Reich Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, which gave him total control of the communications media – i.e. radio, press, publishing, cinema and the other arts.

    He achieved the Nazi ‘co-ordination’ of cultural life very quickly, astutely combining propaganda, bribery and terrorism, “cleansing” the arts in the name of the volkisch ideal, subjecting editors and journalists to State control, eliminating all Jews and political opponents from positions of influence. On May 10, 1933 he staged the great ritual “burning of the books” in Berlin, where the works of Jewish, Marxist and other “subversive” authors were publicly burned in huge bonfires.

    • cogito 23.1
      21 August 2014 at 2:21 pm

      Exactly, and he has been attempting to disembowel all the checks and balances that ensure and protect our democratic rights.

      Unfortunately, like Hitler, he also has an uncanny ability to survive any number of attempts at removing him… but the net is now closing fast.

  24. Grant I 24
    21 August 2014 at 1:50 pm

    Both Key and Warren Tucker seem to be dancing on the head of a pin over the distinction between PM and PM’s office. The question is: Was anyone in the PM’s office when Tucker informed the office he would release documents to Slater? Most people think of an office as a building or perhaps a room with a table, some computers, a photocopier and waste paper basket. Am I assuming too much to think that there would have been some people in the PM’s office at the time when he informed the PM’s office he was releasing material. Or did he just stand in the doorway and shout into an empty room? Tucker has already said there was no written correspondence. If it wasn’t John Key that he spoke to about this then who was it that he informed?

  25. Raa 25
    21 August 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Dear Felix, are you seriously accusing our Prime Minister of being a serial confabulator ?

    You miss one thing .. it is standard practice in the circles he moves in.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/08/eric-margolis/empire-of-death-and-lies/

  26. Hack Kens Joy 26
    21 August 2014 at 1:55 pm

    Hummm, me thinks a careful look at the Governments

    1. CCTV footage of the office over that period (and travel… License plate capture recognition software)
    2. Computer communications (typically blackberry encryption end to end unfortunately)
    3. Analysis of GPs records of staffers phones
    4. Other Comms devices (private ones, just ask Vodaphone about FORK)
    5. Staff who were employed at the time (comings and goings etc etc….)
    6. Swipe card log in details/access
    7. Meeting agendas/minutes
    8. OIA of all files generated within =/-20days of the event happening, even more
    9. Outlook calender etc etc
    10. There should be a log for sign off etc.

    Might be in order.

    A lovely Little bit of social network analysis

    The OIA process, literally, stuff can get lost in migration (I’m not talking birds)

    Oh, thats right you can, no one is allowed to as you cant investigate yourself can you….. bugga

  27. freedom 27
    21 August 2014 at 2:54 pm

    The Chief Ombudsman has apparently decided that for herself and others who run the country, the proper use of language, integrity and professionalism in their high paying roles are no longer relevant to the running of our country. It appears that what people say and what is recorded and what is put into official documentation to facilitate the proper functioning of our nation is all kind of a hit ‘n miss affair that only means what you want it to mean until you need it to mean something else.

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbpol/1026595037-goff-says-key-should-resign-after-sis-information-bungle

    • ghostwhowalksnz 27.1
      21 August 2014 at 3:11 pm

      Now Wakem is saying ‘she didnt write the letter’ and ‘discussion’ was loosely used.

      In other words when we get caught out we just lie even more since thats they way things work in #teamkey

      • yeshe 27.1.1
        21 August 2014 at 4:08 pm

        and of course, Key became conveniently away in Hawaii while the shit came out .. maybe that is why it had to be rushed for Slater so it could come out while Key was away ( as per usual when the toxic stuff turns up).

        @freedom .. awesome comment !!

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