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The Standard

Pot and Kettle

Written By: - Date published: 11:36 am, May 10th, 2013 - 60 comments
Categories: accountability, brand key, democracy under attack, john key, slippery, Spying - Tags:

Key on Gilmore on front page of today’s DomPost:

Mr Key said. “In the end, to make a contribution, you have to have integrity, and to have integrity there has to be a directness and fullness in your answers.”

That’s why Key has no integrity about GCSB – there was no directness and fulness in his answers, either in Parliamant or to the “knucklehead” media.

The rushed-through GCSB Bill which will allow Key to let GCSB spy on Kiwis has no integrity. It is an attack on democracy.

60 comments on “Pot and Kettle”

  1. weta 1

    Aargh .. can’t we get away from Gilmore’s obsession about ‘Dear Leader’ .. ?

    • Tom Gould 1.1

      The biggest laugh was Key on radio complaining that Gilmore kept changing his story. Hilarious.

  2. Roy 2

    Unbelievable hypocrisy from Key, who has no integrity, period.

    • paul andersen 2.1

      national eating it’s own spawn, funniest thing Ive seen this year.I would really like to get hold of an old campaign sign with aaron whathisname’s face on , next to the national swastika, it would be a keepsake.

  3. tc 3

    Business as usual from the shonky one and his dodgy dealing room of MP’s

    • Jim Nald 3.1

      ROTTEN business as usual …

      “Pot and Kettle” – hehe. What a pair to go with the teapot, tapes and Mad Hatter who is now on trial in court!

  4. King Kong 4

    Why is it always “spy on Kiwis” when the reality is “spy on Kiwis strongly suspected of involvment in international terrorism or major crimes”.

    If, and it is a big if, I got wrongly identified and they had to eavesdrop on my phone conversations with my wife finding out if I need to pick up any milk on the way home, why the fuck would I care.

    The only people with problems here are criminals and Labour/Greens (some would argue that they are one in the same).

    • McFlock 4.1

      Ah, classifying copyright infringement as a “major crime” and throwing in the “nothing to hide” argument.

      If they had a camera in your toilet, kitchen and bedroom to make sure you weren’t cooking meth, why the fuck would you care?

      • Pascal's bookie 4.1.1

        Thing is, many righties think the cold war was all about tax rates. They just don’t give a shit about civil liberties.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 4.2

      So, when there’s a Labour Green government, according to you, some would argue that would be a criminal government but you don’t mind them spying on you.

      One question: why is spying on New Zealand citizens forbidden to the GCSB, but not to the SIS and Police? I doubt you know, and if you do know I doubt you understand, but surprise me.

    • freedom 4.3

      maybe it is the litany of horrors that historically accompany these intrusions despite the oft repeated slogans that spew ‘innocence has nothing to fear’

    • Macro 4.4

      Well if you think that KK you’re an even bigger idiot than I thought! What we have here is exactly what existed in Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and in the USA where EVERY digital conversation is recorded! This is an appalling affront to privacy and a direct attack on the democratic process, and if you think that the Nats are going to be in power for ever and therefore honest John will be in charge of who and what gets spied on; you are an even BIGGER fool! Just think what could happen when those evil lefties get into power and the boot is on the other foot and this legislation is still in force?? What are your thoughts about how safe your conversations are then?

      • lprent 4.4.1

        You’re asking KK to think for a period longer than it’d take him to dredge out a stock phrase… You’re asking him to imagine something in the future… You’re asking him to envisage…

        Cruel and unusual punishment. Really cruel and unusual punishment. Fortunately his well known ability to ignore enything that he can’t imagine will shield his reflexive feedback loops from damage. He will probably ignore the comment or try to divert it into a more familiar groove..

      • King Kong 4.4.2

        Why is privacy more sacred than public safety? Yes, I would prefer not to be spied on, but because I am not a criminal it really doesn’t matter.

        If having the ability to listen to my phone calls or look at my emails means that 300 people don’t have to go through the grusomeness of being burnt alive in a plane due to some terrorist bomb then so be it.

        I really dont’t think that GCSB care that you are sending unsolicited pictures of your junk so you can relax about that.

        • Tim 4.4.2.1

          SUCH a Martyr KK!. I can only bow down to your earnest endevour. I adore you – truly. Carrying on as you do in the face of such unwarranted attacks – the selfless dedication to the obvious cause. WHY oh why can’t they all see how you are just so RIGHT! – It’s unbelievable
          Struggle on brother! I feel for you and the weight you carry. Fear not though – there are thousands admiring your dedication and your ability to push all that offal uphill, without complaint, with the absolute sacrifices you endure daily. It’s a tragedy brother! Keep going – I for one live in hope the supremacy of your being, any ‘minor’ sins or ‘mis-spoken utterances’ that come from your grandeur will be seen for what they are.
          I’m right behind you KK – please – keep up the struggle for it’s only because of the likes of You – Thou – that we are we we are today.

        • Puddleglum 4.4.2.2

          Hi King Kong,

          So you disagree with Lord Acton when he said that “power corrupts”? You believe that all powers always get used for the most benign and noble reasons, from here to eternity?

          What does history suggest about such beliefs?

    • Draco T Bastard 4.5

      So, tell KK, why is it that so many National Party supporters like to donate anonymously? Surely they have nothing to hide and it’s not even against the law.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 4.5.1

        That is one good thing about the new law. After the next election, the Prime Minister’s office can use the GCSB to have a really good look at the National Party’s trust funds.

      • King Kong 4.5.2

        You are presuming that the information collected on me through “spying” will be made public by GCSB and used against me by my “political enemies”. The day that happens then all this hysterical arm waiving about human rights and privacy becomes valid. Governments fall on that kind of shit and they know it which is why it won’t happen.

        • freedom 4.5.2.1

          http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/05/10/citizen-a-martyn-bradbury-chris-trotter-selwyn-manning-on-keys-spy-bills/

          King Kong, If you do nothing else of importance all weekend, take the time for a cuppa and actually watch at least the first section of this video, please. The panel is with Selwyn Manning and Chris Trotter so I am sure you are already deciding to ignore whatever thay say. This movement in law concerning the GCSB does impact on you so you have a choice not to be more of a fool than that which you are presenting on these pages. If you continue to choose ignorance over education then I do not see how you can comment on how others would like democracy to be shaped.

          here is a taster of the acuity expressed in the discussion
          http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=FRsi34awlYM&p=n#/785;823

          • Tigger 4.5.2.1.1

            Ultimately some corporation will buy all data and all will be public and/or monetized.

        • Craig Glen viper 4.5.2.2

          Oh like when armed police descend in Helicopters and break into your home because the American government says you are breaching copy right law, like that you mean.
          Shit man that stuff just does not happen especially on honest Johns watch.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.5.2.3

          You are presuming that the information collected on me through “spying” will be made public by GCSB and used against me by my “political enemies”.

          So, that’d make you one of the anonymous donators that get filtered through National’s trusts then?

          Only if the entire population of NZ happen to be your political enemies which they probably are which is why they want those donations to be anonymous. That really is the end result of your logic BTW.

    • Hayden 4.6

      How about that out of the 80-something times they’ve done it it’s resulted in zero prosecutions, let alone convictions?

      “Strongly suspected” seems to be quite easily attained, doesn’t it?

  5. King Kong 5

    Exactly, why would I care?

    And copyright infringement is a bit of a euphemism for stealing billions of dollars of someone elses property, isn’t it?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.1

      Perhaps. That’s why we have police and courts, and why we give them the power to enforce the law. What is it that’s special about the GCSB that they need to be involved? Think hard.

      • framu 5.1.1

        isnt “thinking” the thing that separates humans from apes?

        “why would I care”

        (get a time machine and) go ask the east germans KK – they might have a few words for you on that

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.2

      “Why would I care”.

      He said, from behind a pseudonymous handle which conceals his true identity. He wants that identity to be protected from us, but he can’t see why the Prime Minister’s office shouldn’t know everything about him.

      Several bananas short of a bunch, this monkey.

    • McFlock 5.3

      Why would you care about the government having cameras in your toilet? You wouldn’t?

      Okay, so you’re one of the few people on the planet with no personal privacy issues. Fair enough.

      The next problem with the “nothing to hide” argument is that you are not hiding a specific act. You are hiding an piece of information from the human (and therefore biased) interpretation of someone else, someone who is predisposed to interpret it in the most malicious way possible. Because that’s their job: “stop illegal activity”, not “ignore innocent behaviour”.

      Each observation they make of you is a datapoint – a dot on an xy chart. It’s up to the observer in law enforcement to “connect the dots”. When I say “have you got the paint”, am I speaking in code? When I say “that car’s a bomb”, am I speaking literally? It was this “join the dots” problem that resulted in an electrician being shot in the head on the london underground. It is this “join the dots” problem that can make an impulsive crime get escalated to malicious premeditation.

      But tories don’t care about that, because they are convinced that they will be the lucky ones who aren’t hoist by the police state petard.

      • King Kong 5.3.1

        Come on McFlock, you are better than that. Jumping straight to the breathless Big Brother/Stazi fear mongering. This legislation would not be used in that way, you know it, I know it. The day it is then I can assure you that the country would be united in giving whoever was doing this a fucking hiding.

        Stop trying to protect criminals.

        • Macro 5.3.1.1

          ” This legislation would not be used in that way, you know it, I know it.”

          How do you know that? and what gives you the confidence to make such an assertion? Do you know the identities of the 85 people citizens of NZ who have already been illegally spied upon and why they were? You use the same argument the good citizens of Germany used in the 1930’s and look where it got them…

          • freedom 5.3.1.1.1

            You would think people would have said more when cloth stars were decreed,
            but that’s not us so it’s ok

            You would think people would have said more when those stars were restricted
            from cafes clubs and public pavements
            but that’s not us so it’s ok

            You would think people would have said more when the relocation of their neighbors
            was actioned in darkness by men with guns
            but that’s not us so it’s ok

            You would think that people would have said more
            You would think

            but that was when they came to your door

        • McFlock 5.3.1.2

          Really?
          And “Will not spy on New Zealand citizens or permanent resident” means no NZer will ever be spied on?

          What you don’t get is that I’m not even talking about intentional “fitting up” or other misconduct. People see patterns, and a pattern once seen is very difficult to not see. All of a sudden that holiday where you saw the Pyramids becomes an opportunity for terrorist training. That phone call where you had an argument with your wife becomes part of “a pattern of abuse” if she goes missing for a few days. Minorities across the planet have for years dealt with police saying they “matched the description of the suspect”. I don’t “know” that the legislation won’t be used in that way – in fact I do know that every single power of search and detention that has been granted to law enforcement in history has eventually been abused and perverted to torment the innocent. I see no danger that warrants the people of New Zealand subjecting themselves to that risk.

          But most of all, even though I do not swallow condoms of drugs to smuggle them through customs, I do not want a camera in my shitter.

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.3.1.2.1

            …but nonetheless, if they can get a warrant under existing laws, the police can put a camera anywhere they damn well please. So why does the GCSB need the same powers, especially since they are subject only to political control?

            • freedom 5.3.1.2.1.1

              “So why does the GCSB need the same powers, especially since they are subject only to political control?”

              could it be that’s it somewhat troublesome for Multi-National Corporations to ask the NZ Police to spy on someone or peruse information? Poor little guys, here they are trying to destroy the last vestiges of independent wealth around the Globe and pesky little upstarts like us kiwis think they should stand before a judge and ask for a warrant based on provable evidence. Goddam we are an inconsiderate bunch. Don’t we know these people have countries to slaughter and property to claim. Who are we to stand in the way of human progress?

              well if that is what these laws will assist then I for one can only say
              no sir, i don’t like it.

        • Arfamo 5.3.1.3

          First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out–
          Because I was not a Socialist.
          Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out–
          Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
          Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
          Because I was not a Jew.
          Then they came for the gorillas –and there was no one left to speak for KK…

  6. Policy Parrot 6

    A story about two National Party guys.

    One of these men has absolutely zero credibility, after repeatedly lying to the public of New Zealand, and shunning responsibility for his own actions, preferring to couch himself within the group of his associates.

    The other is an alcoholic.

  7. Mary 7

    Will Labour commit to reversing the GCSB changes? Maybe Aaron Gilmore’s annoyed enough to vote against it?

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/05/08/new-gcsb-powers-are-facist-and-dangerous-hone-calls-it-like-it-is/

    • ghostwhowalksnz 7.1

      Its best that once they get the go ahead that we all know they are spying on all of us electronically

      Under the previous arrangement, they just did it illegally, plus it gave the police etc deniability.
      “us spy on NZers, no way !” All they while they went behind our backs to pass it on to someone else

  8. aerobubble 8

    Keys’ National party loathes government so it squares that they stack their list with the likes of Gilmore to rubbish PR. Its a joke for Key to come out and beat up on the list system when its his party that chose to abuse us all with the likes of Gilmore. Its like pushing someone off a cliff and then blaming someone for not fixing the cliff.

  9. ianmac 9

    Thinking ahead re GCSB changes. In 18 months when Labour/Green take over, will they be able to misuse the laws in the same way and examine the mix of money in Trusts, or the finer activities of those in the Round Table or the National Party or….

  10. Rogue Trooper 10

    Gilmore ON CUE

    • Arfamo 10.1

      Gilmore’s “inappropriate” emails from his previous employer now posted at stuff.co
      http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/AaronGilmoreEmails.pdf

      • ghostrider888 10.1.1

        a laugh a minute indeed with that Bozo

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 10.1.2

        Gilmore likes threatening people’s employment, doesn’t he? I wonder how he formed the impression that that’s how the National Party works.

        • Alanz 10.1.2.1

          Not quite sure whether to help the PM at this point but, hmm hmm hmm, oh well, okay then, here we go, a tip if he is really keen to dump his MP – John Key should ask some of Gilmore’s more personal emails to be leaked to the public. There are some interesting material there to keep the media busy for another week.

  11. Chooky 11

    Someone needs to do a psychological profile on people who like to and need to spy on other people without good reason….’Power and control’ issues?…..Antisocial ‘divide and conquer’ issues? Machiavellian psychopathic ‘ set up and frame’ issues…..Undemocratic tendencies…’The Authoritarian Personality’ ( see Adorno) Power abuse and power imbalance issues ….Hidden personal secrets and closet insecurities…..For example the recent J.Edgar Hoover film by Clint Eastwood was very interesting . Hoover had all sorts of complexes. We need to be protected from people like this !

  12. gobsmacked 12

    Patrick Gower knows No Fear. He is prepared to call Aaron Gilmore a liar (3 News tonight).

    And he is prepared to call John Key … um … well … Patrick just feels it’s not nice to use that word to talk about the Prime Minister, coz he’s such a nice guy, and really, is there any proof that he lied, apart from, well, all those times we know about?

    • SukieDamson 12.1

      +1. I can’t believe the lines Key has continued to use over the last 2 days. The hypocrisy levels are off the scale.

      And Patrick’s stories are becoming more and more “all about me”. Maybe we should forgive him on this ocassion. Imagine Patrick with a bad & greasy 80s perm and there could well be a “separated at birth” angle to this one.

      • North 12.1.1

        Gower’s a gutless punk with no balls when it comes to it. Fixatedly going hard about “first he (Gilmore) lied to ME……”

        Oh woe, the world’s really in schtuck when “ME” gets lied to !

        As though “ME” is an integral part of NZ politics. “Gower Power” LOL.

        Then seamlessly he slips into the most advisedly modulated little spiel about ShonKey Python and how the PM’s “office” (disassociation ?) knew about the veiled threats made to the Treasury official before Gilmore replaced Lockwood.

        Mr Bean’s Ugly Cousin is no less an egocentric bully than Gilmore. All fire and cheap pointy shoes pistoning hard when the man’s on the ground, but still sweeting Shonkey Python’s prevaricating arse.

        Wait ’til Shonkey falls down hard. Paddy Laddie’ll be there at the front of the queue putting the boot in. “As I’VE already indicated, I’M angry…..”. Political “editor” indeed ! He’s the archetypal dorkish prick in the front row of the Pol Studies 1 lecture.

        Koretake creep !

        • Arfamo 12.1.1.1

          I dunno what all that’s about but the few times I’ve seen Patrick Gower on tv he looked like a beaver and sounded like a seal and didn’t seem worth listening to. So I never bother watching him now. Sorry – I thought everybody would’ve done that.

        • Rogue Trooper 12.1.1.2

          Liked this North

    • xtasy 12.2

      gobsmacked: Beware, before you compliment Gower the “gutter”, be mindful he has a ruthless hunter instinct, and he will use it against anybody and everybody, also dear beloved pollies you may value.

      He is NZ’s best example of how UK “gutter press” work!

  13. xtasy 13

    Come on, Mike Smith, Key is not one about integrity, he is all about inebrity, or is that inebriation, of sorts? Some folk tell me tales, and I want to be careful, so I will shut up re that now.

    So what is the issue with our dear MP from down South, Aaron the Gilmore? I think he deserves a medal, he deserves a consultation with David Shearer and you, and possibly be made an honourable member of the Labour Party, as that will be the way to beat this government. Even if this is silly, a bit hilarious, provocative or else, give it some thoughts, what else will get your waffling incomprehensible, never visible, non descriptive, vague, ambiguous, never convincing leader David into power???

    I see NO chance, to be honest, so get Aaron hired, to get this government undermined, to have him entertained with a bit of beer, wine and hired “service” women, and then he may even vote against this damned government in a vote of NO confidence.

    Hey you might be nearer an election win than you ever dream t of. You will not win it on shallow policies shown so far, I am afraid. Wake up, dear Mike!

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