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	<title>Comments on: Private prisons and the &#8216;tough on crime&#8217; lobby</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: More questions on the Sensible Sentencing Trust at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-122851</link>
		<dc:creator>More questions on the Sensible Sentencing Trust at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-122851</guid>
		<description>[...] week, Tane pointed out that the private prison industry had been involved in corrupting the political process in the US by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week, Tane pointed out that the private prison industry had been involved in corrupting the political process in the US by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-122494</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-122494</guid>
		<description>You  mean I shouldn&#039;t call his comments &quot;shit&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You  mean I shouldn&#8217;t call his comments &#8220;shit&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-122492</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-122492</guid>
		<description>Hi BLiP,

I think you&#039;ve got a point, but I also think he&#039;s more likely to listen if he&#039;s not being sworn at; any chance of that?

Regards,
James.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi BLiP,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve got a point, but I also think he&#8217;s more likely to listen if he&#8217;s not being sworn at; any chance of that?</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
James.</p>
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		<title>By: morag</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-122226</link>
		<dc:creator>morag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-122226</guid>
		<description>Dear curious, 
The whole point about the cost comparisons is that they are utterly useless! There is no such thing as:
 &quot;A detailed analysis with methodology and data&quot;
because the private companies refuse to provide that, as state and federal  governments around the world have discovered, often to their detriment.

The only responsibility the corporations have is to return a profit to their shareholders. They plead &#039;commercial in confidence&#039; at the drop of a hat, and have absolutely no obligation to disclose how they reach the random figures they pluck out of their arses. 

For some comment on that you may like to read: 
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/committee.nsf/0/80F365E089726B75CA25708300191671
which cites no lesser wacky liberal than the NSW Auditor General commenting on this little problem, and admitting they were forced TO MAKE THE FIGURES UP to even produce a comparison.

It also points out that the two new public prisons in the state (where they actually do know what the figures comprise) are running more efficiently than NSW&#039;s one privatised prison Junee, but why let that stand in the way of a rapacious company handing out money?

I&#039;d be a little careful taking too much of this to heart though, as it&#039;s recently revealed that not only has the company (GEO) been throwing money at both political parties for some time, they were slipping money to the chair of the Public Affairs Committee that produced this report, at the time he was chairing said committee. 

Not unusual this side of the ditch, but should give one pause for thought. In fact, some American city councils are now refusing to accept and/or returning money from GEO as it is seen as too tainted.

not that people like you, Curious, Razorlight et al, would care, but another group of renowned leftie rabble rousers, the US Department of Justice, produced this report showing the massive increase in assaults in private prisons, on both staff and inmates. 
www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bja/181249.pdf

I don&#039;t even know where to start with the horror stories, increased costs and dangers to the community, inmates and staff. But then, the great god of neo-liberalism tells you the market can do it better (read the papers much recently?) so you go with that. 

And you accuse us of ideological blindness!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear curious,<br />
The whole point about the cost comparisons is that they are utterly useless! There is no such thing as:<br />
 &#8220;A detailed analysis with methodology and data&#8221;<br />
because the private companies refuse to provide that, as state and federal  governments around the world have discovered, often to their detriment.</p>
<p>The only responsibility the corporations have is to return a profit to their shareholders. They plead &#8216;commercial in confidence&#8217; at the drop of a hat, and have absolutely no obligation to disclose how they reach the random figures they pluck out of their arses. </p>
<p>For some comment on that you may like to read:<br />
<a href="http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/committee.nsf/0/80F365E089726B75CA25708300191671" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/committee.nsf/0/80F365E089726B75CA25708300191671</a><br />
which cites no lesser wacky liberal than the NSW Auditor General commenting on this little problem, and admitting they were forced TO MAKE THE FIGURES UP to even produce a comparison.</p>
<p>It also points out that the two new public prisons in the state (where they actually do know what the figures comprise) are running more efficiently than NSW&#8217;s one privatised prison Junee, but why let that stand in the way of a rapacious company handing out money?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be a little careful taking too much of this to heart though, as it&#8217;s recently revealed that not only has the company (GEO) been throwing money at both political parties for some time, they were slipping money to the chair of the Public Affairs Committee that produced this report, at the time he was chairing said committee. </p>
<p>Not unusual this side of the ditch, but should give one pause for thought. In fact, some American city councils are now refusing to accept and/or returning money from GEO as it is seen as too tainted.</p>
<p>not that people like you, Curious, Razorlight et al, would care, but another group of renowned leftie rabble rousers, the US Department of Justice, produced this report showing the massive increase in assaults in private prisons, on both staff and inmates.<br />
<a href="http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bja/181249.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bja/181249.pdf</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t even know where to start with the horror stories, increased costs and dangers to the community, inmates and staff. But then, the great god of neo-liberalism tells you the market can do it better (read the papers much recently?) so you go with that. </p>
<p>And you accuse us of ideological blindness!!</p>
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		<title>By: Sensible Sentencing Trust and GEO Group, a deafening silence at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-122120</link>
		<dc:creator>Sensible Sentencing Trust and GEO Group, a deafening silence at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-122120</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ll reiterate the points and questions that Tane raised that the SST should answer &#8230; The extremely well funded and media savvy Sensible Sentencing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ll reiterate the points and questions that Tane raised that the SST should answer &#8230; The extremely well funded and media savvy Sensible Sentencing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rave</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121979</link>
		<dc:creator>rave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121979</guid>
		<description>Corrupt judges send kids to private prisons for profits.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/578.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrupt judges send kids to private prisons for profits.<br />
<a href="http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/578.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/578.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ianmac</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121959</link>
		<dc:creator>Ianmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121959</guid>
		<description>Can a question be asked in the House of an ordinary MP? I think that there were many questions about funding directed at Peters. Interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can a question be asked in the House of an ordinary MP? I think that there were many questions about funding directed at Peters. Interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Macro</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121954</link>
		<dc:creator>Macro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121954</guid>
		<description>As usual HS you DON&quot;T know what you&#039;re talking about! Under the previous experiment it cost $42000 per annum per prisoner in the new privately managed purpose built prison whereas it cost $36000 per annum per prisoner in public service managed prisons of similar type.
The privately run prison was also less likely to provide successful rehabilitation outcomes.
I could provide even more examples of why the UK and many states in the USA are now rethinking their experiments in privately managed prisons but why waste my time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual HS you DON&#8221;T know what you&#8217;re talking about! Under the previous experiment it cost $42000 per annum per prisoner in the new privately managed purpose built prison whereas it cost $36000 per annum per prisoner in public service managed prisons of similar type.<br />
The privately run prison was also less likely to provide successful rehabilitation outcomes.<br />
I could provide even more examples of why the UK and many states in the USA are now rethinking their experiments in privately managed prisons but why waste my time!</p>
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		<title>By: George.com</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121953</link>
		<dc:creator>George.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121953</guid>
		<description>Maybe a question in the house to new ACT MP Garrett. Can he confirm whether overseas prison companies contributed to the SST. If so, how much. Is there any tie in between overseas prison companies, the SST and his 3 strikes lock em up bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe a question in the house to new ACT MP Garrett. Can he confirm whether overseas prison companies contributed to the SST. If so, how much. Is there any tie in between overseas prison companies, the SST and his 3 strikes lock em up bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Macro</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121952</link>
		<dc:creator>Macro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121952</guid>
		<description>You Might care to take a look at this Tim
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2009/03/spot-difference.html
Talk of transparency is all well and good! But in the Nat&#039;s case its mainly talk!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You Might care to take a look at this Tim<br />
<a href="http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2009/03/spot-difference.html" rel="nofollow">http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2009/03/spot-difference.html</a><br />
Talk of transparency is all well and good! But in the Nat&#8217;s case its mainly talk!</p>
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		<title>By: Felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121880</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121880</guid>
		<description>Indeed. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thestandard.org.nz/centrist-bullshit/#comment-121851&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here it is.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed. <a href="http://www.thestandard.org.nz/centrist-bullshit/#comment-121851" rel="nofollow">Here it is.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121869</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121869</guid>
		<description>Nicky Hager?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicky Hager?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pilott</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121864</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121864</guid>
		<description>Where has that been shot down, HS?  The only sophistry was the patently misleading comparison between normal and remand prisioners made by those wanting to prove that private was cheaper, and realising they had to resort to lying to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where has that been shot down, HS?  The only sophistry was the patently misleading comparison between normal and remand prisioners made by those wanting to prove that private was cheaper, and realising they had to resort to lying to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ellis</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121861</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121861</guid>
		<description>Ian, I don&#039;t know anything about the SST or their funding.  Nor do I have any qualification to speak about it.  I suppose in my case, my silence on the matter indicates nothing more suspicious than that I know nothing about it, and care even less.

The SST don&#039;t influence the way I vote, and I suspect they get far more free media than their funding or organisational capacity might warrant.  There&#039;s no evidence that National&#039;s prisons policy has been driven or influenced by the SST, or any of its funders.  As far as the funding arrangements go, there&#039;s actually evidence of no relationship, by virtue of the fact that National hasn&#039;t disclosed any offshore funding from the prisons organisations, or from the SST, as it would have been required to do under the EFA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, I don&#8217;t know anything about the SST or their funding.  Nor do I have any qualification to speak about it.  I suppose in my case, my silence on the matter indicates nothing more suspicious than that I know nothing about it, and care even less.</p>
<p>The SST don&#8217;t influence the way I vote, and I suspect they get far more free media than their funding or organisational capacity might warrant.  There&#8217;s no evidence that National&#8217;s prisons policy has been driven or influenced by the SST, or any of its funders.  As far as the funding arrangements go, there&#8217;s actually evidence of no relationship, by virtue of the fact that National hasn&#8217;t disclosed any offshore funding from the prisons organisations, or from the SST, as it would have been required to do under the EFA.</p>
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		<title>By: Ianmac</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/private-prisons-and-the-tough-on-crime-lobby/comment-page-1/#comment-121859</link>
		<dc:creator>Ianmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=9531#comment-121859</guid>
		<description>The final post on Centrist Bullshit posted by Tomse seemed to sum it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The final post on Centrist Bullshit posted by Tomse seemed to sum it up.</p>
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