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	<title>Comments on: Privatising water</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: prism</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-171049</link>
		<dc:creator>prism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-171049</guid>
		<description>Some son, some father!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some son, some father!</p>
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		<title>By: So Bored</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-171038</link>
		<dc:creator>So Bored</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-171038</guid>
		<description>A brand of economists...maybe a dynasty!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A brand of economists&#8230;maybe a dynasty!</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Anderson</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-171017</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-171017</guid>
		<description>Because they failed to understand the following reality about natural monopolies and water:

A natural monopoly is a monopoly that exists because the cost of producing the product (i.e., a good or a service) is lower due to economies of scale if there is just a single producer than if there are several competing producers. The most commonly cited examples of natural monopolies are utilities such as railroads, pipelines, electric power transmission systems and water supply systems. Such industries are characterized by very large costs for their infrastructure (i.e., which are fixed costs), and it is thus often inefficient (i.e., detrimental to the economy as a whole) to have more than a single firm in a region because of the high cost of duplicating the facilities (e.g., parallel pipelines or parallel sets of electric wires to every home and business).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because they failed to understand the following reality about natural monopolies and water:</p>
<p>A natural monopoly is a monopoly that exists because the cost of producing the product (i.e., a good or a service) is lower due to economies of scale if there is just a single producer than if there are several competing producers. The most commonly cited examples of natural monopolies are utilities such as railroads, pipelines, electric power transmission systems and water supply systems. Such industries are characterized by very large costs for their infrastructure (i.e., which are fixed costs), and it is thus often inefficient (i.e., detrimental to the economy as a whole) to have more than a single firm in a region because of the high cost of duplicating the facilities (e.g., parallel pipelines or parallel sets of electric wires to every home and business).</p>
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		<title>By: Clarke</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-171012</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-171012</guid>
		<description>The quote is actually from &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_K._Galbraith&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the son&lt;/a&gt;, rather than the father - made more confusing by that wonderful American predilection for naming the child after the parent, as if names were nothing more than some cross-generational branding exercise!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quote is actually from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_K._Galbraith" rel="nofollow">the son</a>, rather than the father &#8211; made more confusing by that wonderful American predilection for naming the child after the parent, as if names were nothing more than some cross-generational branding exercise!</p>
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		<title>By: So Bored</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-171003</link>
		<dc:creator>So Bored</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-171003</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, must say the late JK Galbraith will be as much missed for his dry and witty language as much as for his wisdom, he is always a pleasure to read. Not sure but think he coined the phrase &quot;conventional wisdom&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, must say the late JK Galbraith will be as much missed for his dry and witty language as much as for his wisdom, he is always a pleasure to read. Not sure but think he coined the phrase &#8220;conventional wisdom&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarke</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170998</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170998</guid>
		<description>Irrespective of David Shand&#039;s excellent credentials, the fact is that the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.royalcommission.govt.nz/rccms.nsf/0/3B63C8B26BDCC1FACC2573DB00014CF0/$FILE/Terms%20of%20reference.pdf?open&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;terms of reference&lt;/a&gt; (PDF) for the Royal Commission do not include the subject of privatisation. The relevant portion:

&lt;blockquote&gt;What ownership, governance, and institutional arrangements and funding responsibilities are required to ensure the effective, efficient, and sustainable provision of public infrastructure services&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Note the use of the words &quot;public infrastructure&quot; in that sentence. It seems a very long bow to draw that Shand and the Commissioners would somehow be able to consider full privatisation as aligned with the goals of public infrastructure services. In fact, it would probably require that you put ideology ahead of a literal reading of the ToR - which was my original point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irrespective of David Shand&#8217;s excellent credentials, the fact is that the <a href="http://www.royalcommission.govt.nz/rccms.nsf/0/3B63C8B26BDCC1FACC2573DB00014CF0/$FILE/Terms%20of%20reference.pdf?open" rel="nofollow">terms of reference</a> (PDF) for the Royal Commission do not include the subject of privatisation. The relevant portion:</p>
<blockquote><p>What ownership, governance, and institutional arrangements and funding responsibilities are required to ensure the effective, efficient, and sustainable provision of public infrastructure services</p></blockquote>
<p>Note the use of the words &#8220;public infrastructure&#8221; in that sentence. It seems a very long bow to draw that Shand and the Commissioners would somehow be able to consider full privatisation as aligned with the goals of public infrastructure services. In fact, it would probably require that you put ideology ahead of a literal reading of the ToR &#8211; which was my original point.</p>
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		<title>By: Draco T Bastard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170995</link>
		<dc:creator>Draco T Bastard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170995</guid>
		<description>Because they&#039;re stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because they&#8217;re stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170991</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170991</guid>
		<description>You mean they took an ideological view that didn&#039;t agree with yours.  That ideological view was espoused by the excellent and highly respected David Shand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean they took an ideological view that didn&#8217;t agree with yours.  That ideological view was espoused by the excellent and highly respected David Shand.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarke</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170990</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170990</guid>
		<description>Because they took an ideological view. Remember, the Royal Commission was set up to assess governance structures, not debate the merits of the putative &quot;efficiencies&quot; of public vs private water supply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because they took an ideological view. Remember, the Royal Commission was set up to assess governance structures, not debate the merits of the putative &#8220;efficiencies&#8221; of public vs private water supply.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170983</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170983</guid>
		<description>So why did the Royal Commission into Akld recommend light regulation of Water and a removal of the current monopoly system?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So why did the Royal Commission into Akld recommend light regulation of Water and a removal of the current monopoly system?</p>
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		<title>By: Clarke</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170981</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170981</guid>
		<description>Galbraith was writing in 2006 about the Bush administration, and the quote comes from an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/05/predator-state&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;op-ed article&lt;/a&gt; in Mother Jones. I highly recommend the entire article, as it seems very relevant to the John Key government:

&lt;blockquote&gt;For in a predatory regime, nothing is done for public reasons. Indeed, the men in charge do not recognize that &quot;public purposes&#039; exist. They have friends, and enemies, and as for the restâ€”we&#039;re the prey.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There&#039;s no benefit that will come out of privatising water - it is transparent and cynical predation at its worst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Galbraith was writing in 2006 about the Bush administration, and the quote comes from an <a href="http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/05/predator-state" rel="nofollow">op-ed article</a> in Mother Jones. I highly recommend the entire article, as it seems very relevant to the John Key government:</p>
<blockquote><p>For in a predatory regime, nothing is done for public reasons. Indeed, the men in charge do not recognize that &#8220;public purposes&#8217; exist. They have friends, and enemies, and as for the restâ€”we&#8217;re the prey.</p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s no benefit that will come out of privatising water &#8211; it is transparent and cynical predation at its worst.</p>
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		<title>By: prism</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170979</link>
		<dc:creator>prism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170979</guid>
		<description>Strong stuff. What year and what prompted Galbraith to say that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strong stuff. What year and what prompted Galbraith to say that?</p>
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		<title>By: So Bored</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170978</link>
		<dc:creator>So Bored</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170978</guid>
		<description>JK was onto it, funny thing is that he mirrors Adam Smith, who in the Wealth of Nations (much quoted by free marketeers) made the point strongly that if you put two competing capitalists in a room they would conspire and collude to raise prices in the market unless regulated....JKs addition is that they have corrupted the regulaters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JK was onto it, funny thing is that he mirrors Adam Smith, who in the Wealth of Nations (much quoted by free marketeers) made the point strongly that if you put two competing capitalists in a room they would conspire and collude to raise prices in the market unless regulated&#8230;.JKs addition is that they have corrupted the regulaters.</p>
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		<title>By: So Bored</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170977</link>
		<dc:creator>So Bored</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170977</guid>
		<description>Hi TS, more &quot;objectivism&quot; I see, now lets maximise my own enjoyment of life in a rational way, investing in anything tradable.....even if this may dehydrate somebody else causing much unhappiness. 

You may not be (in fact probably are not) aware that the silliness of privatising water was tried in La Paz quite recently, the unhappy dehydrated types took to the streets intent on minimising the privatisers happiness. 

Poor old Ayn and her objectivist acolytes never quite got the cause and effect cycle, karma, yin / yang or that type of thing. My rule is simpler, if it pisses somebody off expect fireworks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi TS, more &#8220;objectivism&#8221; I see, now lets maximise my own enjoyment of life in a rational way, investing in anything tradable&#8230;..even if this may dehydrate somebody else causing much unhappiness. </p>
<p>You may not be (in fact probably are not) aware that the silliness of privatising water was tried in La Paz quite recently, the unhappy dehydrated types took to the streets intent on minimising the privatisers happiness. </p>
<p>Poor old Ayn and her objectivist acolytes never quite got the cause and effect cycle, karma, yin / yang or that type of thing. My rule is simpler, if it pisses somebody off expect fireworks.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarke</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/privatising-water/comment-page-1/#comment-170976</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24857#comment-170976</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Today, the signature of modern capitalism neither benign competition, nor class struggle, nor an inclusive middle-class utopia. Instead, predation has become the dominant feature - a system wherein the rich have come to feast on the decaying systems built for the middle class.

&quot;The predatory class is not the whole of the wealthy; it may be opposed by many others of similar wealth. But it is the defining feature, the leading force. And its agents are in full control of the government under which we live.&quot;

- J.K. Galbraith &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Today, the signature of modern capitalism neither benign competition, nor class struggle, nor an inclusive middle-class utopia. Instead, predation has become the dominant feature &#8211; a system wherein the rich have come to feast on the decaying systems built for the middle class.</p>
<p>&#8220;The predatory class is not the whole of the wealthy; it may be opposed by many others of similar wealth. But it is the defining feature, the leading force. And its agents are in full control of the government under which we live.&#8221;</p>
<p>- J.K. Galbraith </p></blockquote>
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