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	<title>Comments on: Quandary</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 12:11:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kiwipolitico &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Balance of scrutiny</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138219</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiwipolitico &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Balance of scrutiny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138219</guid>
		<description>[...] be considered credible, as have those of her political agent Phil Goff. In most cases this has not been subtle, although some is. I know, who&#8217;d have thunk it. Sexual harrassment victim held to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be considered credible, as have those of her political agent Phil Goff. In most cases this has not been subtle, although some is. I know, who&#8217;d have thunk it. Sexual harrassment victim held to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: doc whose asking</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138182</link>
		<dc:creator>doc whose asking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138182</guid>
		<description>excuse me Zet as I first respond to Eddie&#039;s post. Last evening a big time play fell upon the word pending which makes for max points in scrabble leagues.. depending as you&#039;d expect on its position on that game board. With pending you can keep context in mind at the same time as overseeing whats on thetable, as it were.

Zet, methinks it would help for due consideration of this family: if I heard correctly Mr Goff said it was this woman&#039;s husband who came to see him in the hope that he would be able do something appropriate to resolve  the somewhat pernicious possibilities then existent upon his wife... jobwise.

Which word strikes a good deal of relevance for you folks... umm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excuse me Zet as I first respond to Eddie&#8217;s post. Last evening a big time play fell upon the word pending which makes for max points in scrabble leagues.. depending as you&#8217;d expect on its position on that game board. With pending you can keep context in mind at the same time as overseeing whats on thetable, as it were.</p>
<p>Zet, methinks it would help for due consideration of this family: if I heard correctly Mr Goff said it was this woman&#8217;s husband who came to see him in the hope that he would be able do something appropriate to resolve  the somewhat pernicious possibilities then existent upon his wife&#8230; jobwise.</p>
<p>Which word strikes a good deal of relevance for you folks&#8230; umm</p>
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		<title>By: Zetetic</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138123</link>
		<dc:creator>Zetetic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138123</guid>
		<description>No. They&#039;ll have a private meeting with Key. They&#039;re not stupid enough to do what you would do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. They&#8217;ll have a private meeting with Key. They&#8217;re not stupid enough to do what you would do.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138120</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138120</guid>
		<description>&quot;Goff gave the info to Key&quot;

Craig, it&#039;s widely reported there was no actual evidence given to Goff and the women refused to come forward. I&#039;m sure selected messages will be drip fed by labour in the days to come though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Goff gave the info to Key&#8221;</p>
<p>Craig, it&#8217;s widely reported there was no actual evidence given to Goff and the women refused to come forward. I&#8217;m sure selected messages will be drip fed by labour in the days to come though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anita</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138117</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138117</guid>
		<description>mike,

The woman who was harassed by Worth has offered, more than once as far as we can tell, to provide the evidence to the right people to have the issue addressed 

You, me, TV1 news, and so on are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; the right people, and she has absolutely no obligation to provide it to us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mike,</p>
<p>The woman who was harassed by Worth has offered, more than once as far as we can tell, to provide the evidence to the right people to have the issue addressed </p>
<p>You, me, TV1 news, and so on are <i>not</i> the right people, and she has absolutely no obligation to provide it to us.</p>
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		<title>By: Anita</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138116</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138116</guid>
		<description>If the person harassed was a man I would be arguing just as strongly for his privacy, yes.

I would like to say that if something awful happened to me I would have the strength and courage to stand up in public and tell every last detail with absolutely no shame. But   I know that there are things that I don&#039;t talk about publicly because I don&#039;t want to be judged and know that everyone I ever meet has in their mind when they look at me the darkest moments of my worst nightmares. I probably have both the strength and the courage to do it, but I have weighed up the pros and cons and made that decision.

Whether Worth&#039;s victims want to tell it publicly or not is &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; call and we should respect it.

FWIW I think it is totally revolting that there are people gleefully speculating on the net about what they think the Police investigation is about. Why is it at all acceptable to do that to &lt;i&gt;his victim&lt;/i&gt;: she does not, in any way, deserve people speculating about something so distressing against her obvious wishes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the person harassed was a man I would be arguing just as strongly for his privacy, yes.</p>
<p>I would like to say that if something awful happened to me I would have the strength and courage to stand up in public and tell every last detail with absolutely no shame. But   I know that there are things that I don&#8217;t talk about publicly because I don&#8217;t want to be judged and know that everyone I ever meet has in their mind when they look at me the darkest moments of my worst nightmares. I probably have both the strength and the courage to do it, but I have weighed up the pros and cons and made that decision.</p>
<p>Whether Worth&#8217;s victims want to tell it publicly or not is <i>their</i> call and we should respect it.</p>
<p>FWIW I think it is totally revolting that there are people gleefully speculating on the net about what they think the Police investigation is about. Why is it at all acceptable to do that to <i>his victim</i>: she does not, in any way, deserve people speculating about something so distressing against her obvious wishes.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138115</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138115</guid>
		<description>Mike, 

&lt;i&gt;It&#039;s â€˜bullshit&#039; putting words in my mouth &lt;/i&gt;

Sorry, I ought to have specified that my comment was strictly in response to your statement &quot;she must have been throwing him the odd bone to keep him interested from Nov 08 to Feb 09.&quot; That doesn&#039;t hold, and your arguing it does constitutes a justification of Richard Worth&#039;s behaviour.

As for the remainder:

&lt;i&gt;having said you have evidence you then need to produce it to remain credible.&lt;/i&gt;

She needs to produce it &lt;i&gt;to someone&lt;/i&gt;, but not to the general leering public. No doubt she has presented it to the only people who presently matter, viz, the NZ Police.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, </p>
<p><i>It&#8217;s â€˜bullshit&#8217; putting words in my mouth </i></p>
<p>Sorry, I ought to have specified that my comment was strictly in response to your statement &#8220;she must have been throwing him the odd bone to keep him interested from Nov 08 to Feb 09.&#8221; That doesn&#8217;t hold, and your arguing it does constitutes a justification of Richard Worth&#8217;s behaviour.</p>
<p>As for the remainder:</p>
<p><i>having said you have evidence you then need to produce it to remain credible.</i></p>
<p>She needs to produce it <i>to someone</i>, but not to the general leering public. No doubt she has presented it to the only people who presently matter, viz, the NZ Police.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: Anita</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138111</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138111</guid>
		<description>mike,

That it went on for so long shouldn&#039;t raise any questions about her actions. That it does is a sad comment on the questioner and the society they live in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mike,</p>
<p>That it went on for so long shouldn&#8217;t raise any questions about her actions. That it does is a sad comment on the questioner and the society they live in.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138110</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138110</guid>
		<description>And treated with due righteous indignation by Mary Wilson, who never has much time for waffly bollocks. 

Righteous!

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And treated with due righteous indignation by Mary Wilson, who never has much time for waffly bollocks. </p>
<p>Righteous!</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138108</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138108</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s &#039;bullshit&#039; putting words in my mouth...

Worths actions are indefensible as an MP to be sure but having said you have evidence you then need to produce it to remain credible.

The fact this went on for so long will no doubt raise questions about how she reponded to his advances. Only she can clear that up</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s &#8216;bullshit&#8217; putting words in my mouth&#8230;</p>
<p>Worths actions are indefensible as an MP to be sure but having said you have evidence you then need to produce it to remain credible.</p>
<p>The fact this went on for so long will no doubt raise questions about how she reponded to his advances. Only she can clear that up</p>
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		<title>By: QoT</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138107</link>
		<dc:creator>QoT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138107</guid>
		<description>Oh my God, I thought &quot;textses&quot; was going to be a one-off mispronunciation. But he KEPT SAYING IT.  And the &quot;well you would understand if you had ALL THE FACTS, but you DON&#039;T, so shut up&quot; attitude at the end was a thing of beauty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my God, I thought &#8220;textses&#8221; was going to be a one-off mispronunciation. But he KEPT SAYING IT.  And the &#8220;well you would understand if you had ALL THE FACTS, but you DON&#8217;T, so shut up&#8221; attitude at the end was a thing of beauty.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138106</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138106</guid>
		<description>And Richard Worth&#039;s statement is a .doc. WTF are those hacks at Star PR charging for? Never, ever release important documents in editable formats!

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Richard Worth&#8217;s statement is a .doc. WTF are those hacks at Star PR charging for? Never, ever release important documents in editable formats!</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: OhPlease</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138104</link>
		<dc:creator>OhPlease</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138104</guid>
		<description>I am not sure -  if it was Judith Collins harassing a married man half her age  with sexually charged &#039;texas&#039; and emails, would we be so overly concerned at preserving his privacy? If he submitted a statement, would we bend over backwards to discuss the appropriateness of positing it?  Wouldn&#039;t we assume that the bloke knows what he&#039;s getting in to when he makes a statement tabled in the house, and assume he want to get his view out in the public domain?  

If I were her (I speak as a woman ) I would go public and say what happened - and dare society to make me anything other than a mature, sober , considered woman who stands up for herself. I think this would be a fantastic role model for her children frankly.  Let Worth and Key be the ones to slink around behind closed doors and public relations&#039; offices .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure &#8211;  if it was Judith Collins harassing a married man half her age  with sexually charged &#8216;texas&#8217; and emails, would we be so overly concerned at preserving his privacy? If he submitted a statement, would we bend over backwards to discuss the appropriateness of positing it?  Wouldn&#8217;t we assume that the bloke knows what he&#8217;s getting in to when he makes a statement tabled in the house, and assume he want to get his view out in the public domain?  </p>
<p>If I were her (I speak as a woman ) I would go public and say what happened &#8211; and dare society to make me anything other than a mature, sober , considered woman who stands up for herself. I think this would be a fantastic role model for her children frankly.  Let Worth and Key be the ones to slink around behind closed doors and public relations&#8217; offices .</p>
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		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138103</link>
		<dc:creator>craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138103</guid>
		<description>Wrong Mike, Goff gave the info to Key to protect the womans name six weeks ago. If he didnt want to protect her name he would have tabled it in the house and dribbled it out over the next few weeks

 But hey you believe what you like Mike. Just have the balls to say you were wrong when Goff finishes Key off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong Mike, Goff gave the info to Key to protect the womans name six weeks ago. If he didnt want to protect her name he would have tabled it in the house and dribbled it out over the next few weeks</p>
<p> But hey you believe what you like Mike. Just have the balls to say you were wrong when Goff finishes Key off.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/quandary/comment-page-1/#comment-138101</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=14725#comment-138101</guid>
		<description>OhPlease,

&lt;i&gt;The more we assert that her anonymity is essential, the more we buy into this.&lt;/i&gt;

There&#039;s a gap between &#039;being ashamed&#039; and &#039;sacrificing all dignity&#039; - including, probably, that of her family. There&#039;s also the power differential and cultural considerations. Worth, as a wealthy lawyer and minister of the Crown, is a dangerous man to go up against, and Korean treatment of matters like this is radically different to NZ treatment. In that regard I&#039;m amazed that she mentioned it at all - in my experience Korean women simply put up with (what in NZ would be) unacceptable levels of sexual harrassment because that&#039;s just how things are. It&#039;s wonderful this woman has availed herself of the (cultural and legal) systems of redress available to her here. If she can do so while maintaining her family&#039;s dignity, so much the better.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OhPlease,</p>
<p><i>The more we assert that her anonymity is essential, the more we buy into this.</i></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a gap between &#8216;being ashamed&#8217; and &#8216;sacrificing all dignity&#8217; &#8211; including, probably, that of her family. There&#8217;s also the power differential and cultural considerations. Worth, as a wealthy lawyer and minister of the Crown, is a dangerous man to go up against, and Korean treatment of matters like this is radically different to NZ treatment. In that regard I&#8217;m amazed that she mentioned it at all &#8211; in my experience Korean women simply put up with (what in NZ would be) unacceptable levels of sexual harrassment because that&#8217;s just how things are. It&#8217;s wonderful this woman has availed herself of the (cultural and legal) systems of redress available to her here. If she can do so while maintaining her family&#8217;s dignity, so much the better.</p>
<p>L</p>
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