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Rob Gilchrist on Sunday

Written By: - Date published: 10:58 am, October 6th, 2013 - 28 comments
Categories: activism, police - Tags:

The Sunday programme this evening has Rob Gilchrist, police spy and provocateur, breaking his silence about the decade he spent amongst mostly peaceful activists. He was one amongst the very many sworn officers and informants that the police, spy agencies, and their civilian detective agencies use to monitor and often to disrupt democratic change. At this point he is running a case against the police and now breaking a long silence.

Due to the lackadaisical oversight and poorly written laws governing our police and security forces, the only time we get to know about some of the paranoid gits and their rather strange ideas is when a insider speaks up. Or they manufacture charges and try to get them through the courts.

In the latter case, much of the detail is hidden in in the form of suppression orders, undisclosed evidence, or evidence that is only seen in camera or by a judge only. The current government, embarrassed by how often the paranoid jerks in the police and security forces have overstepped their explicit legal boundaries, have enacted retrospective legislation to override Supreme court decisions.

So far the government appears to be ignoring the real problems inside the police organisation that has allowed these abuses against our laws and democracy.

28 comments on “Rob Gilchrist on Sunday”

  1. greywarbler 1

    How long should you wait for a link to go through? I’ve just counted to 60. Is this lag normal for the time of day? Or something likely my end?

  2. Jenny 2

    Funny that you should mention Rob Gilchrist again Lynn. I had been thinking of this despicable individual since you tried to compare him to me in a nasty piece of character assassination.

    The last time Gilchrist made an appearance in the public eye, was when this perverted agent provocateur, publicly announced that he was going to take his police handlers to court, that is, unless they paid him $200,000. I would have thought that the police in fear of having all their dirty linen exposed in a public court, would have caved in to Gilchrist’s blackmail. That they are being blackmailed by their own degenerate pawn is surely rich irony.

    What we do know about Gilchrist; Was that while Gilchrist was on the police payroll he inveigled his way into left groups and tried to incite people to do criminal acts. That he took embarrassing intimate photos of female acquaintances and sent them to the police, that he gathered lots of detailed personal information about peoples’ relationships which he also passed on to his handlers. For what purpose, who knows. But blackmail purposes is a strong possibility.

    Other disgusting acts committed by Gilchrist against activists, while in the police’s pay included; Under the pretext of a game, setting up young activists to dress up, and pose with guns. Gilchrist then sent these falsely incriminating photos to the police.
    If Rob Gilchrist’s cover had not been exposed. There can be little doubt that these incriminating photos would have used to make the police case that there were terrorist cells operating in New Zealand. As it is, Rob Gilchrist is known to have given secret evidence in the Police Terror Trials against at least three of those originally charged, but who later had their charges dropped when the police case fell apart. If Gilchrist had not have been caught it is quite possible that those he tried to frame and smear would probably, be doing long jail sentences right now.

    It will be interesting if any of this is brought up on TV.

    [lprent: I didn’t compare you to Rob – read the damn comment without your stupid and bigoted blinkers on.

    Pascal’s bookie had commented and intimated that you might be a cop, Murray disagreed. Actually I was disagreeing with both. You seem to have seized on Murray Olsen’s even later misinterpretation and never read my comment. But I guess that actually reading the actual content of the comment was kind of beneath you; right? Or you were simply incapable of actually parsing what I’d said.

    The reason Rob was in the comment was to demonstrate the difference between idiots employed by the police to spy on movements and people in movements who were in my view mere idiots. Unlike PB and probably you, I’ve known police informants who have come all the way into my family. Moreover I’ve read the discrepancy between what happened and what they reported. That was the context of Rob in that comment.

    You came up in that comment as being a mere credulous fool because I said that you frequently failed my sniff test about the logic of their position. Much of what you say is in my view full of misinformation, unworkable, extremist, and a detriment to any movement that you care to support. This isn’t exactly a isolated view of your comments.

    Anyway, this is about the third time you have lied about what I have said or what my position is. You are no longer welcome to comment on any of my posts. If you do for any reason then I’ll start with a 12 week ban. If I see you distorting any of my comments or posts on this site without a link to them, then I will give you a permanent consignment to auto-spam. ]

    • Win 2.1

      What about family members paid by the cops to spy on you and wreck your health? Has anyone heard of that?

  3. QoT 3

    Do you think they’re likely to ask him about his shitty behaviour towards leftwing activist women? Or whether it was in fact he who posted a woman’s photos and personal details on a Stormfront website and emailed photos of naked women to his handlers?

    Honestly, I’d be fascinated to hear his thoughts on how some leftwing men’s embracing of rape culture made it easier for him to infiltrate their circles.

    • lprent 3.1

      I have no idea on what he is going to be talking about.

      But I suspect a lot of it will be related to the way that the police misuse informants who are hung out to dry after their effective use has finished. I gather that is what his current case against the police is about.

      Gilchrist is probably the extreme example in Nz because of the manner in which rocky ensured he wouldn’t be doing any such actions again. It made him notorious and rather unemployable. His years working for the police also appear to have atrophied his existing skills and screwed him up in the head.

      I also suspect that his shitty behaviour towards women is more related to that of the culture inside the police towards women. While I’ve met the odd left-wing misogynist amongst the thousands that I have met, I’d have to say that the much smaller numbers of male police I’ve met were overwhelmingly misogynists – and quite willing to throw their powers behind it.

      For instance if I ever locate the arsehole from the police who suggested to rocky that if she continued to take my great-nephew to peaceful demonstrations he’d sic CYF on her to take the child away, then they will be in a world of legal pain for many years

      • QoT 3.1.1

        But it’s not just his shitty behaviour that’s the problem, lprent. The problem is that Gilchrist was shitty and downright abusive to multiple women, and when they complained, a heck of a lot of supposedly progressive dudes suddenly trot out misogynist stereotype there is – even when they had to act like complete toddlers to do so.

        I mean seriously, women were saying “I think this guy is a cop” and leftwing dudes were falling over themselves to say “well he says you’re the cop and you’re lying about that other guy raping you”.

        Police culture is misogynist, sure, but leftwing activist culture is in no place to throw stones on that score.

        • lprent 3.1.1.1

          I know some women in the AAA to whom he was not shitty or abusive to (that aren’t family – fast way to lose anatomy in my family) who were some of his greatest defenders up here.

          Personally I didn’t like him much, nor did most of the rest of the immediate family, and I thought rocky was kind of nuts. But she could make up her own mind. I did like her eventual response. Fast and decisive.

          • QoT 3.1.1.1.1

            Jesus Christ, lprent, people are entirely capable of being shitty to some and polite to others. It’s irrelevant to the point. He WAS shitty to people, and he WAS defended by leftwing men.

  4. Anne 4

    if I ever locate the arsehole from the police who suggested to rocky that if she continued to take my great-nephew to peaceful demonstrations he’d sic CYF on her to take the child away, then they will be in a world of legal pain for many years

    I’ve had the misfortune to come across a few unbelievably arrogant, ignorant police officers… so much so, I doubt I will ever trust any of them again. But that comment is the most vile I’ve heard. I gather your niece doesn’t know the name of the ‘bastard in blue’ responsible because if it was me, I’d be making sure his name was emblazoned in lights for everyone to see!

    • Murray Olsen 4.1

      I have been abused by a uniformed sergeant at a petrol station on Jervois Rd because I disagreed with him that young women threw themselves at football teams with such promiscuous abandon that the the players were actually the victims of these “scheming sluts” and it weren’t for Helen Clark with her coterie of lesbians in the Beehive and the “soft cocks” in the Labour Party, this distasteful job would not be forced on the police force. I told him I shared his despair that no such thing happened to police sergeants with beer guts and would possibly think the same way if I had brain damage as well. This ended with him punching my son’s friend in the face on the forecourt for lying to him, because Maori don’t have jobs and shouldn’t lie to the police about their employment status.

      I am not surprised at all that Gilchrist found distribution of sexually explicit photos as totally acceptable. The creep should sue himself, or at least face a jury of those he pretended were his peers.

  5. karol 5

    So Gilchrist is suing for loadsamoney? But what about the people & groups he illegally spied on?

  6. karol 6

    So that’s it? What a lame report!

    Poor wee Rob…. and little sympathy for the people and groups he spied on.

    • lprent 6.1

      That isn’t surprising. I’ll watch it when it comes through on the net.

    • Anne 6.2

      Rob Gilchrist is right. Spying and interference in the lives of innocent citizens has been going on for decades.

      A woman joined the Mt. Albert Labour Party in the 1970s and many years later sufficient information came my way for me to conclude (correctly) she had been an informant who had been spying on us for years. She made a particular effort to befriend me, and she used me to gather information about individuals in the Labour Party and the L.P. in general. During the 70s and 80s she was involved in unlawful politically motivated activity but was never caught or brought to justice.

      karol said:

      So Gilchrist is suing for loadsamoney? But what about the people & groups he illegally spied on?

      The people who are illegally spied on don’t count karol. In the minds of the police in particular you are being spied on because you are bad. In the 1970s anyone who joined that commie outfit called the Labour Party was bad. And if you dared show your face on an anti-nuclear or anti-apartheid march you were seriously bad. You deserved everything that was coming to you. I’m not sure too much has changed since then except the nature of the causes regarded as being bad.

      • emergency mike 6.2.1

        To paraphrase Nixon, “When the cops do it, that means it’s not illegal.”

      • Tiger Mountain 6.2.2

        There are many examples of govt spys from the WB Sutch/Vietnam/’81tour/No Nukes days up to recent times. (I am not going to name names, Trev Louden ex ACT has named a few, http://www.trevorloudon.com/2008/03/the-kiwi-spy-who-penetrated-moscow/) NZ has more special units, agencies and extended surveillance powers than a small nation should ever need in 2013.

        Anne’s (6.2) experience is common to many who have got involved in a political party or popular issue for a while.

        Undercovers and snitches rarely have a wholy gleeful time of it particularly on exit, some quite ill, or addicted after service and then inevitably abandoned by their “handlers”. Which is a small compensation perhaps for some of those snooped on citizens who had the misfortune to spend time with these scabby double dealers while exercising their democratic rights.

        In “Seeing Red–Undercover in 1950s New Zealand”, By George Fraser, Dunmore Press 1995 isbn 0-86469-255-2 NZ Police ‘Special Branch’ recruited Fraser in 1951 to infiltrate the NZ Communist party which he did for nearly nine years during which time included the formation of the NZ Security Intelligence Service in 1956 that he was transferred to. His eventual conclusion was that many party members were kiwis of good intent and he became disillusioned, eventually being involved in protests against the 1977 SIS Amendment Act.

        The ‘embedded’ filth like Ghilcrist deserve what is coming to them, and I don’t mean compensation.

  7. I did enjoy his dismay at the fact that he’s received hate mail since his duplicity was revealed. He should count his blessings – if the people he was betraying for profit actually were criminals, he’d have got a bit more than the odd angry phone call…

  8. Theonewhoknows 8

    Actually Jenny, about 99% of your post is totally inaccurate and shows you have less than 1% knowledge of the whole thing. If you’d care to share where you got all of your information from, it would be amusing.

  9. Rodel 9

    Got a friend who has been a cop with her husband for over ten years. In spite of an upbringing with both parents and siblings being avid Labour supporters, the years of dealing with crims and the culture of the police has turned them both into rabid ACT party members.They’re not the sharpest knives in the drawer but otherwise good people. Sad to see.

  10. Rogue Trooper 10

    Maybe the police can “look” into this…

  11. vto 11

    The culture of police is well known across pretty much all of society. Society turns a willing blind eye to the lies, deceit and police criminal actions provided they are “kept in check”.

    This actually reflects on all of society that we willingly allow police to smash some accused in the cells, for example.

    Just like society is happy to kill thousands of innocent people in times of war, as if it is somehow justified.

    Then of course we ourselves are not permitted to partake in physical sanction in resolution of local disputes – that is the preserve, apparently, of the state. They are allowed the jack boots nobody else.

    It is all rather sick, with no society or community coming out with much cred.

    Bullshit. Keep your pitchfork at the door.

  12. At the end of the day, Gilchrist will be looking over his shoulder wherever he goes for years in case pissed off SAS veterans ever come after him for all those years of walting he did.

    They REALLY don’t take kindly to that.

  13. AsleepWhileWalking 13

    He got paid for taking illegal actions. No sympathy here.

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    Anzac Day now has the full recognition that other public holidays have long enjoyed, reflecting the growing significance it has to our sense of identity and pride as a nation, Labour MP David Clark says.“The importance of the 100th Gallipoli… ...
    2 days ago
  • Housing crisis hurting export growth
    If Steven Joyce wants to revive his failing export growth target he needs to make sure the Government gets to grips with the housing crisis, says David Parker, Labour’s Export Growth and Trade spokesperson. “Our exporters are struggling to compete… ...
    4 days ago
  • Gallipoli’s lesson: never forget, never repeat
     A special monument to one of our greatest war heroes should be a priority for the new Pukeahu National War Memorial Park, Labour Leader Andrew Little says.  “This will honour the spirit of Lieutenant Colonel William Malone, who led 760… ...
    4 days ago
  • Minister for who? Women, or Team Key?
    Louise Upston yesterday broke her silence on John Key’s repeated unwanted touching of a woman who works at his local café, to jump to the defence of her Boss. Upston repeated Key’s apology but, according to media reports “she refused… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    5 days ago
  • Taxpayer bucks backing US billionaire
    Kiwis will be horrified to know they are backing a Team Oracle subsidiary owned by a US billionaire, Labour’s Sports and Recreation spokesperson Trevor Mallard says. It has been revealed today that a Warkworth boat building company, which is wholly… ...
    5 days ago
  • English’s sins of omission: ‘Nothing left to be done’ on housing
    When Bill English said ‘there is nothing left to be done’ on the Auckland housing crisis he had overlooked a few things – a few things, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says.  “He’s right if you ignore: ...
    5 days ago
  • Climate change now hurts Kiwis
    Kiwis have twice been given timely and grave warnings on how climate change will hit them in their hip pockets this week, says Climate Change spokesperson Megan Woods.  “The first is the closure of the Sanford mussel plant and the… ...
    5 days ago
  • Clean, green and chocolate!
    Like many people I absolutely love chocolate! But until recently I hadn’t given much thought to how it was grown and produced. Fair trade and ethical food production are core Green Party principles, so yesterday Steffan Browning and I were… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    5 days ago
  • National admits loan shark law not up to it
    National has admitted new laws to crack down on loan sharks, truck shops and dodgy credit merchants aren’t up to the task of protecting vulnerable consumers, Labour’s Commerce spokesperson Kris Faafoi says. “Paul Goldsmith has acknowledged the laws might just… ...
    5 days ago
  • Power and the Prime Minister
    I’d like to acknowledge the young woman* who has publically told her story. It was a very brave thing to do. She kept her story very simple and focussed on her experience of what happened. It told of unwanted attention… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    5 days ago
  • Extra holiday offers time to reflect
    The Mondayisation of Anzac Day provides New Zealanders with an opportunity to spend more time with their families and their communities, Dunedin North Labour MP David Clark says. “This is the first time legislation I introduced, to have Anzac and… ...
    6 days ago
  • More angst and anguish for red zone locals
    Local residents will be bitterly disappointed by the Government’s cherry picking of the Supreme Court’s decision regarding compensation for red zoned property owners, Labour Canterbury Earthquake Recovery spokesperson and Port Hills MP Ruth Dyson says. “Home owners have taken all… ...
    6 days ago
  • Australia shows why we need a sovereign wealth fund now
    Australia has not managed its great mining boom well, says HSBC’s chief economist for Australia and New Zealand, Paul Bloxham. When times are good, governments need to save for the bad times that will inevitably follow, and this can be… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    6 days ago
  • Pure Water- pure rip off
    New Zealanders’ rights to fresh water must be protected before commercial allocations are given, but the Government is allowing resources to be taken, says Kelvin Davis MP for Te Tai Tokerau.  “The Government needs to resolve the issue of water… ...
    6 days ago
  • Cabinet paper reveals weak case for Iraq deployment
    A heavily redacted copy of a Cabinet paper on New Zealand’s military deployment to Iraq reveals how weak the case is for military involvement in that conflict, says Labour’s Defence spokesperson Phil Goff.  The paper warns that given the failure… ...
    6 days ago
  • Malaysia’s booty is Kiwis’ lost homeownership dream
    It’s unsurprising the Auckland property market is so overheated when Malaysians are being told they can live large on Kiwi’s hard-earned rent money, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “A Malaysian property website lists nearly 4000 New Zealand houses and… ...
    7 days ago
  • Ministry’s food safety resources slashed to the bone
    The Ministry for Primary Industries’ failure to monitor toxic and illegal chemicals in red meat is a dereliction of duty, Labour’s Primary Industries and Food Safety spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “MPI compliance officer Gary Orr today admitted National’s much-vaunted super… ...
    7 days ago
  • Ministry must protect organic food industry
    The Ministry for Primary Industries must take urgent action to protect New Zealand’s $150 million organic food and beverage industry by establishing a certification regime, Labour’s Primary Industries spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “Despite working with Organics Aotearoa on the issue… ...
    1 week ago
  • Tony Abbott, indigenous rights, and refugees
    This week, Tony Abbott has visited Aotearoa New Zealand, bringing with him his racist policies against indigenous Australians and his appalling record on refugee detention camps. Abbott has launched a policy “to close” remote aboriginal communities, which is about as… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 week ago
  • PM’s housing outburst bizarre
    Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford has described the Prime Minister’s latest comments on the Auckland housing crisis as bizarre. “John Key is deep in denial. He must be one of the only people left who are not concerned about the risk… ...
    1 week ago
  • Deflation: Another economic headache linked to housing crisis
    National’s housing crisis is causing even further damage with the second consecutive quarter of deflation a genuine concern the Reserve Bank can do little about, as it focusses on Auckland house prices, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This is… ...
    1 week ago
  • Pot calling the kettle black over fossil fuel subsidies.
    Over the weekend alongside nine other countries the New Zealand Government has endorsed a statement that supports eliminating inefficient subsidies on fossil fuels. Fossil fuel subsidies are a big driver of increasing emissions. Good on the Government for working internationally… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes MP
    1 week ago
  • At last – a common sense plan for Christchurch
    The Common Sense Plan for Christchurch released by The People’s Choice today is a welcome relief from the shallow debate about rates rises versus asset sales, Labour’s Christchurch MPs say. "Local residents – who have spent weeks trawling through the… ...
    1 week ago
  • National must lead by example on climate change
    The National Government must meet its own climate change obligations before it preaches to the rest of the world, Labour's Climate Change spokesperson Megan Woods says. "Calls today by Climate Change Minister Tim Groser for an end to fossil fuel… ...
    1 week ago
  • Biosecurity rethink a long time
    The Government has opened New Zealand’s borders to biosecurity risks and its rethinking of bag screening at airports is an admission of failure, Labour’s Primary Industries spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. Nathan Guy today announced a review of biosecurity systems in… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Chinese rail workers must be paid minimum wage
    KiwiRail must immediately stop further Chinese engineers from working here until they can guarantee they are being paid the New Zealand minimum wage, Labour’s MP for Hutt South Trevor Mallard says. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment today released… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Better consultation needed on Christchurch asset sales
    The Christchurch City Council (CCC) should be promoting wide and genuine public consultation on its draft ten year budget and plan given the serious implications for the city’s future of its proposed asset sales, outlined in the plan. Instead, it… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘Healthy Families’ a good start but not enough to tackle obesity relate...
    Today the Government is making a the meal out of the launch of its ‘Healthy Families’ package to promote ‘healthier decisions’ and ‘changing mindsets’ over nutrition, physical activity and obesity. Great! The programme is based on a successful model from… ...
    GreensBy Kevin Hague MP
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘Healthy Families’ a good start but not enough to tackle obesity relate...
    Today the Government is making a the meal out of the launch of its ‘Healthy Families’ package to promote ‘healthier decisions’ and ‘changing mindsets’ over nutrition, physical activity and obesity. Great! The programme is based on a successful model from… ...
    GreensBy Kevin Hague MP
    2 weeks ago
  • No more sweet talk on obesity
    The Government should be looking at broader measures to combat obesity rather than re-hashing pre-announced initiatives, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says.  “While it is encouraging to see the Government finally waking from its slumber and restoring a focus on… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government two-faced on zero-hour contracts
    The Government should look to ban zero-hour contracts in its own back yard before getting too high and mighty about other employers using them, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. “Information collated by Labour shows at least three district health… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Scrutiny of battlefield deaths should continue
    As New Zealand troops head to Iraq under a shroud of secrecy, the Government is pushing ahead with legislation to remove independent scrutiny of incidents where Kiwi soldiers are killed in hostile action overseas, Labour’s Defence spokesperson Phil Goff says.… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Damp-free homes a right for tenants
    Labour is urging tenants to use a little known rule which gives them the right to live in damp-free rental homes. Otago University researchers have today highlighted the Housing Improvement Regulations 1947 as a way tenants can force landlords to… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • National must take action on speculators
    The Government must take action on property speculators who are damaging the housing market and shutting families and young people out of the home ownership dream, Labour Leader Andrew Little says.  “There are a number of options the Government could… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Milk price halves: A $7b economic black hole
    Global milk prices have halved since the peak last year, creating an economic black hole of almost $7 billion that will suck in regions reliant on dairy, crucial industries and the Government’s books, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. “The… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Kitchen plan set to swallow up health boards’ funds
    The financial impacts of implementing a proposal to outsource hospital food, forced on them by a crown-owned company which is now facing an auditor-general’s inquiry, are being felt by district health boards across the country, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Reserve Bank scathing of Government
    The Reserve Bank’s most scathing critique to date of National’s inability to handle the housing crisis shows the Bank is sick of having to pick up the pieces, Labour Leader Andrew Little says.  “John Key continues to deny there is… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Time for McDonald’s to upsize work hours
    Labour is calling on McDonald’s to have more respect for their workers and offer them more guaranteed work hours. McDonald’s is proposing to guarantee its workers 80 per cent of their rostered hours, Labour’s spokesperson for Labour Issues Iain Lees-Galloway… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Brownlee misses the boat on asbestos
    Gerry Brownlee has once again missed an opportunity to improve the lives of Cantabrians post-earthquakes, Labour’s Canterbury Earthquake Recovery spokesperson Ruth Dyson says. A new report from the Royal Society of New Zealand and the Prime Minister’s Chief Science Adviser,… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government must come clean on troop deployment and protections
    New Zealanders deserve more than to hear about their troops’ deployment overseas from Australian media, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “News from Australia that Kiwi troops are on their way to Iraq this week is another example of the culture… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Cancer prevention calls gain momentum
    Research showing bowel cancer treatment sucks up more public health dollars than other cancers once again highlights the need for a national screening programme, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. A study by Otago University, which found colon cancer is… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Burger King shows zero-hour contracts not needed
    The abandonment of zero-hour contracts by Burger King is further evidence good employers do not need to use them, Labour’s spokesperson on Labour Issues Iain Lees-Galloway says. "Congratulations to the Unite Union and Burger King for settling an employment agreement… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Kiwis deserve more than reheats
    The Government looks set to rely on regurgitated announcements for this year’s Budget if today’s speech is anything to go by, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “National has been building up to this Budget for seven long years, promising a… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Landlords not cashing in on insulation schemes
    The fact so few landlords have taken up the generous taxpayer subsidy for retrofitting shows it is time to legislate minimum standards, says Labour’s Associate Housing spokesperson Poto Williams. “Many landlords aren’t using Government insulation schemes because they don’t want… ...
    2 weeks ago

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