Schadenfreude

59 comments on “Schadenfreude ”

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1. Craig Glen viper 1

   5 August 2013 at 3:40 pm

   We need a strong oposition one that can combat this Key/National anti-democratic dictatorily behaviour or else we wont have any rights or country left.
2. vto 2

   5 August 2013 at 3:58 pm

   We have only two options;

   1. Assume it is all for good purpose and what you describe there is paranoia

   or

   2. Assume it has an evil background and matters will become more evil…

   with the consequence ………

   is it worth the risk choosing option 1? What if you are wrong and it is option 2? what is the consequence then? Has this kind of thing happened before in history?…

   should we perhaps do our forefathermothers right and stand with them? Be on the safe side at times like this?

   what would you do?
   • KJT 2.1

     5 August 2013 at 8:57 pm

     I wish it was paranoia.

     When I was younger I read John A Lee’s “Children of the Poor”. The book at a big effect on my thinking. I remember thinking, though, at least in NZ, we no longer have conditions like that. This was the mid 70’s.

     It is easy for us in comfortable middle class suburbs to justify our meanness by peddling myths about welfare, and the undeserving poor.

     But:
     We again have families that do not have enough to live on, have inadequate housing, not enough money for health care, and soon to get a second rate, rote “education for the lower classes” and little hope of improvement.
     We have teenagers being harassed into mental illness by uncaring WINZ staff, unscrupulous employers and dodgy training providers.
     We have families who work at two jobs, and still do not make enough money to feed their kids properly.
     We have areas where burger flipping is the best job you can get. For the rest of your life.

     The “children of the poor” in the 50’s, and up to the 80’s, like my father, the son of a working class widow, went to the best state school in Christchurch and did well in the path he chose.

     The “children of the poor” today, look more like those in John A Lee’s time.

     The evil of those with power who do not care. Who actively demonise the low paid and those on welfare to justify keeping them on what Ruth Richardson blatantly stated “was too little to live on” to encourage them into working. Just so the well off can pay a few dollars a week less taxes, if they even pay taxes. With the co-operation of Journalists who should know better.

     We are not yet at the stage where the courage of a Martin Niemöller is required to speak out.

     But, The slow extension of repressive Government powers, and Government cruelty, continues while we do little.

     Journalists haven’t been scared to be very vocal when they are threatened, so, what is stopping so many of them from speaking out for others?
     • Arfamo 2.1.1

       5 August 2013 at 10:17 pm

       Journalists haven’t been scared to be very vocal when they are threatened, so, what is stopping so many of them from speaking out for others?

       1. Their editors.
       2. Their salaries.

       Why am I in moderation tonight? How have I sinned?
       • lprent 2.1.1.1

         5 August 2013 at 10:37 pm

         Nah – just akismet running a bit slow on the analysis side (ie are you a bot?). If the site can’t get an answer to the question within a reasonable timeframe, it tosses your comment into moderation and then retries comments in a batch a few minutes later. When it gets and answer it will automatically release the comment from moderation. If not, then it has to wait for one of the mods to do it.

         At present we are running at about a quarter of all comments posted to the site are spam. Obviously we humans don’t want to deal with them all. There are only so many times you can read about xxx films, extenders, or stiffening pills with any degree of interest (just reading the current spam queue – also has the banned Mark in it). So we let the machines deal with the machines.
         • Arfamo 2.1.1.1.1

           5 August 2013 at 10:50 pm

           Ok. Thanks.
         • felix 2.1.1.1.2

           5 August 2013 at 11:35 pm

           As a bot I am deeply offended by this profiling.
           • McFlock 2.1.1.1.2.1

             5 August 2013 at 11:50 pm

             It might not be that – it could be because your gravatar’s black…

             Edit:
             What what? Not a bot!
             What what? Not a bot!
             You wanna put me where? Not a bot!
             I’m in the moderator’s power,
             like a delicate flower…
             • felix …

               6 August 2013 at 1:03 am

               lolz!
3. BM 3

   5 August 2013 at 4:01 pm

   We don’t.
   Especially if you go by this study

   Kiwis despise the media
   http://www.samoaobserver.ws/home/headlines/6009-new-zealand-media-among-four-most-corrupt
   • Sable 3.1

     5 August 2013 at 6:43 pm

     Very interesting, I knew people hated them, certainly I loathe them but I did not know it was this bad.
     • KJT 3.1.1

       6 August 2013 at 9:29 am

       Well. Bob Jones only had to punch a reporter, to double his poll ratings.
4. Molly 4

   5 August 2013 at 4:02 pm

   … some of those journalists are: Nicky Hager, Jon Stephenson and Bradley Ambrose…

   and it is not right.
5. Bill 5

   5 August 2013 at 4:02 pm

   When they come for the actors who routinely dress up and pose as reporters/journalists…oh hang on, that won’t happen. Compliant pack of organ grinder monkeys = no threat of exposure.
   • Sable 5.1

     5 August 2013 at 6:45 pm

     Very good (laugh).
6. Colonial Viper 6

   5 August 2013 at 4:12 pm

   I guess amplifying Government messages uncritically while rolling Key and his various Ministers soft questions on things like the Tea Pot tapes, releasing of beneficiary details, MSW kiosks, data matching of bene fraudsters while being nearly silent about the billion lost in tax evasion, Key’s speech to the SIS, Kim Dotcom etc. wasn’t such a shit hot idea.
7. vto 7

   5 August 2013 at 4:15 pm

   What about when they come for the people who push the cart? That surely means the end….
8. BLiP 8

   5 August 2013 at 4:17 pm

   Why should we care?

   Lots of reasons . . . I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death, and so on, as an ideal. With the exception of those living in the Beehive bubble, I actually have a little bit sympathy for journalists generally. Most seem eager to do a good job but are, these days, hamstrung by a deliberate lack of resources and a public which prefers stories about royal babies than advance warning of impending totalitarianism.
   • Paul 8.1

     5 August 2013 at 4:32 pm

     Agree with you that we should care. The loss of media freedoms is a massive attack on democracy.
     However, I disagree on who creates the interest in trivia. I think it is the media creates that the public interest in royal babies etc rather than the media covering it simply because of public interest.
     • crashcart 8.1.1

       5 August 2013 at 7:53 pm

       Have to agree. I find half the time I am watching the news and am completely dumbfounded by the fluff bollox that leads. I often ask myself if there is anything more important in the world than the rubbish currently blearing out of the tube. The sad answer is yes but there is no one with the courage to put it on.
       • Arfamo 8.1.1.1

         5 August 2013 at 11:47 pm

         +1. Yup.
   • North 8.2

     5 August 2013 at 4:58 pm

     And those paying their wages being unmitigated moral (at the least) crooks.
9. phillip ure 9

   5 August 2013 at 4:44 pm

   “.. Most seem eager to do a good job ..”

   care to give us some examples..?

   ..i’m grasping here..

   (and as for the examples cited..hagar is an author..not really a working mainstream media journalist which is what is being discused..

   ..stephenson..?..yes..most definitely..

   ..but ambrose..?..aside from that taping ting..wasn’t he just part of that compliant mainstream media problem..?

   ..i guess you could cite john campbell..on some current/hot-button issues..

   ..but there is no real questioning of the paradigm going on there..

   ..(and maori tv also do some good work..)

   ..who else..?

   ..there are many examples in new zealand..of online/non-mainstream media journalists who are doing world-class work..

   ..but with a few exceptions..the mainstream media here is a shocker..

   ..(shallow/unquestioning/craven obeisance to powers-that-be..)

   ..and funny story..in the news-collating i do each day..

   ..i find quality journalism/pieces/writing in some british mainstream media..(guardian/independent..)

   ..but in america i rely on the online media..

   ..’cos like here..with few exceptions..(n.y./l.a. reviews of books etc..)..the american mainstream media is a sea of shite..

   ..and a shallow sea at that..

   ..phillip ure..
   • BLiP 9.1

     5 August 2013 at 7:34 pm

     “.. Most seem eager to do a good job ..”

     care to give us some examples..?

     Surely any professional wants to do a good job. Individually, the members of the Fourth Estate aren’t, generally speaking, corrupt or lazy or in any way malignant. I think the business reporters do a good job, and I trust a lot of their data and assertions. The business pages also have a divergent cast of commentators, some of whom I can’t stand but all of whom I read. A few are actually good writers, too. The sports reporters are doing a good job. The Crime/Courts people could do with some bolstering, there’s a lot more going on that is not being investigated. The corporatisation of the Justice system is one story I would like to see exposed. I’m liking that there’s been some traction on the Pora story, though. It’s gonna turn into a great story once the lawyers get the police officers concerned on the stand. The Editorial stuff is useful in giving a glimpse of what’s ticking over in the Tory mind, as infuritating as it is. What I do appreciate about the MSM is that its internet presence provides a near-complete record of who said what and when.
   • crashcart 9.2

     5 August 2013 at 7:55 pm

     The thing that gets me the most is when they do cover the opposition asking serious questions the only thing you get from the government is some dismissive one liner which is repeated any number of times and becomes the headline with no questions asked.

     Its like they think their job is to grab a sound bite and that is all there is to making news.
     • BLiP 9.2.1

       5 August 2013 at 9:04 pm

       ‘

       Such has been the poor reporting of Parliament, I sometimes wonder if the Press Gallery hasn’t become “captured”, a bit like how John Key and his mates captured the financial press.
       • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1

         5 August 2013 at 9:10 pm

         Of course they’ve been captured. Some may be angling for future positions as PR hacks in the PM’s office (whichever PM that might be), some may be angling at a board position at TVNZ.

         You can always tell a journo who has been captured. They simply repeat, amplify and confirm the messaging being delivered by the government, with barely the slightest pretence at challenging or questioning the narrative being delivered by those in power.
     • Populuxe1 9.2.2

       6 August 2013 at 11:39 am

       That has more to do with the government only offering dismissive one liners.
10. tc 10

    5 August 2013 at 4:49 pm

    Really important to defend this even if the current lot of MSM muppets twitter comments are about as deep as their research and sources go.

    That’s part of the problem, they will not stamp and shout as mostly all they ever carp on about aligns with shonkey and the hollowmens agenda so they think ( incorrectly) they’ll be fine.
11. Morrissey 11

    5 August 2013 at 5:30 pm

    They came for the unions/workers, and the journalists didn’t care,.
    They came for the poor, the sick, and the old, and the journalists didn’t care.
    They came for the young, and the unemployed, and the journalists still supported them.
    The sold out our country, and the journalists still took the money.Now they have come for the journalists.
    Why should we care?

    That is a very foolish and inaccurate rant, as well as a pisspoor parody of Martin Niemöller. There ARE journalists in New Zealand who cared, and care, about this government’s attacks against democracy that you have outlined. Real journalists, who work hard and know what they are talking about. Journalists like Nicky Hager, Gordon Campbell, Mike Field and John Stephenson. Those are the journalists that will be targeted for spying and intimidation, not the likes of Mike Hosking, John Armstrong and Nevil Breivik Gibson.
    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      5 August 2013 at 6:07 pm

      Also lets not forget that its the editors who have the final say on what gets printed/makes it on the air.
    • KJT 11.2

      5 August 2013 at 6:53 pm

      I posed the question. Not the answer.

      The answers are not unexpected.

      And I fully agree we have journalists, who are worthy of the name. As detailed above.

      Not enough, though, and we do not hear from them enough.

      Then there are the many who vilified Helen Clark for years, and give Key, who is a synical puppet of the 1% at best, and a dupe at worst, a free ride.

      The quote, and the story, is so familiar I don’t think attribution is necessary.

      How about another one. “For evil to triumph, it is only necessary that good men do nothing”.
      • Populuxe1 11.2.1

        6 August 2013 at 11:51 am

        So I must have imagined the reporting on teapot gate, the Kim Dotcom saga, gay shirt gate, New Zealand declaring war on North Korea, the GCSB scandal, etc etc etc – but no, actually I know about those things from the MSM. DOH!
    • Populuxe1 11.3

      6 August 2013 at 11:43 am

      This is one occaision I am inclined to agree. I would also note that we, the public, wouldn’t even be aware of the extent of National’s crap were not there journalists reporting in in the MSM.
      • KJT 11.3.1

        6 August 2013 at 3:41 pm

        Really.

        I found it out from blogs. Admittedly, Gordon Campbell’s being one of them.

        If you read only NZ newspapers and watched TV 1 or Sky you could be forgiven for believing the bullshit, that National were doing a great job.

        Meanwhile, the people that are hurting stop bothering to vote, as they cannot see either National, or Labour, making anything better.
        • Populuxe1 11.3.1.1

          7 August 2013 at 1:14 pm

          Only if you were stupid. There has been plenty of coverage of Key’s fuck ups, the GCSB protest, and so forth. WHere do you think most of the bloggers get their information?
12. karol 12

    5 August 2013 at 5:59 pm

    And then they came for the minor support party MPs in the House … do MSM hacks really care?
    • Populuxe1 12.1

      6 August 2013 at 11:46 am

      Out of curiosity, karol, how do you think the public became aware Dunne had his emails hacked? Clairvoyant prescience, or because it was quite widely reported in the MSM?
13. Phil 13

    5 August 2013 at 6:19 pm

    The real problem with the media in NZ is the lack of media in NZ. The Dom in Wellington, the Herald in Auckland. That’s it for print. TV 1 or TV 3, smattering of SKY and swift sound bites from Prime. Talk about monopoly.
    Average Joe, laps up what they are provided with. MSM tells us the Nats lead in the latest poll, that’s evidence to the less than interested or the person working to feed the family. NZ has no breadth or depth of popular reporting, no “other view”. The Nats have the MSM, by default.
    • Populuxe1 13.1

      6 August 2013 at 11:47 am

      That’s patronising of the “average Joe” and deliberately ignoring that increasingly people get their news from web sources.
14. Sable 14

    5 August 2013 at 6:38 pm

    With the exception of the late Paul Holmes and John Campbell, the rest of deserve EVERYTHING they get. Bunch of right wing, corporate sell outs.
    • Arfamo 14.1

      5 August 2013 at 8:26 pm

      Holmes was an egotistical dipstick. Massively overrated in my opinion, especially by himself. Not in the same league as Campbell. I consider he was just as much a corporate sellout as any of them.
      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        5 August 2013 at 8:35 pm

        Everyone wanted to be nice to him around the time of his illness and death, but yeah, some of the flippant irrelevant short sighted bullshit he ran with both on TV and on radio was awful.

        I know plenty of cheeky darkies who agree with me, too.
15. peterlepaysan 15

    5 August 2013 at 8:25 pm

    As a rule the MSM has brown nosed the nats since the 1930’s when labour became a viable opposition. As a rule the MSM has usually dissed anything the labour party suggests or does.

    Could be counter productive for business and business advertising revenue if they did not.

    The MSM always claim the high moral ground of “public interest” or “fourth estate” robes of objective analysis. Nothing to do with advertising revenue.

    MSM are in a parlous state at the moment (gfc and the web). Advertising revenue is disappearing and so are capable experienced journalistic and editorial staff.

    No wonder Key and his cronies treat the MSM knuckleheads with contempt. The chattering class will keep brown nosing them and dissing opposition parties.

    Given her experience with british tabloids what else did Andrea Vance expect from Key?

    Key is a USA business lackey trying to make NZ into another state of the USA.

    Our totally inept MSM cannot see it. They are happy to be dumped on by a National government.

    Imagine the headlines from the herald if a labour government had done it.

    The MSM are their own worst enemies and cannot see it. Brown nosing does limit one’s vision.
    • Rodel 15.1

      5 August 2013 at 9:08 pm

      Trouble is, if you don’t brown nose you don’t have a job..like a lot of business and public service genres.
      Wot’s a poor journalist wannabe to do? Free lancing aint much cop.
      Glad I’m not in their situations.
16. Jesus Wept 16

    5 August 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Nice KJT. A bit of poetry to go with Savage’s ‘My good friends at the Dominion”. Without substantial souls like Campbell and Oram with zero afflections to the dirty side we have little hope.Why should we care? is simply a great comment.
17. fabregas4 17

    5 August 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Everything we are now reaping is what was planned in the 80’s reforms. What else was planned I wonder?
18. felix 18

    5 August 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Why should we care about journalists? We shouldn’t, not about this bunch of useless cunts. They’ve been selling us out and lying to us for years,

    BUT….

    if we care about journalism then we need to stick up for them anyway. Then we might get some more of it.
    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      5 August 2013 at 11:13 pm

      Will start up a collection tin for a legal defence fund tomorrow.
      • Colonial Viper 18.1.1

        5 August 2013 at 11:29 pm

        Lots of my comments are hitting moderation tonight…any clues why, mods?

        [r0b: You aren’t the only one. No idea, sorry! Lprent – please have a look. Sorry folks I’m off to sleep (early start tomorrow).]
    • Arfamo 18.2

      5 August 2013 at 11:20 pm

      I wish that was true. But I don’t think anything will change after this hullabaloo dies down felix.

      I think we are stuck with TV and media star style journalism in the MSM now. I pay them little attention, and I regard most of them with considerable skepticism in terms of whether what they are saying is factual, has been verified, and is unbiased. Everybody’s in a rush to print or rush to air with breathless exposes that often aren’t much more than rumour or from one source only. In the case of Patrick Gower I can’t understand why he’s even employed by anyone. He should be writing fairy stories. He’s brilliant at that.

      If you tell me where the collection tin is, I feel we should be taking money out of it, not putting it in.
      • felix 18.2.1

        5 August 2013 at 11:32 pm

        Oh I’m not expecting Garner and Espiner to develop consciences overnight, but significant events can and do effect cultural shifts over the long term.
        • Arfamo 18.2.1.1

          5 August 2013 at 11:43 pm

          I think you’ve put an unnecessary “f” in shifts. The only tv journo I see doing his or her job well is John Campbell.
          • felix 18.2.1.1.1

            6 August 2013 at 1:09 am

            Do you have a tv that shows programs from 20 years into the future? Wow, cool.
            • Arfamo 18.2.1.1.1.1

              6 August 2013 at 9:34 am

              Nope. Do you think we’ll still have tv 20 years in the future?
              • felix …

                7 August 2013 at 12:35 am

                It’s not really about the tv.
    • Winston Smith 18.3

      6 August 2013 at 9:30 am

      I agree with you about journalists…give us the whole story and let us make our minds up, don’t decide what the story is and then pitch it to us

      Or maybe tell us what your political affiliations are before running the story then we can work out for ourselves any biases

      Theres a reason journalists are so low on the trust polls
19. Populuxe1 19

    6 August 2013 at 11:53 am

    I notice most of you can’t tell the difference between Op Eds and journalism
    • KJT 19.1

      6 August 2013 at 3:43 pm

      Yes we do. The Op eds are more accurate!

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