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	<title>Comments on: Snouts in the trough</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: r0b</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150654</link>
		<dc:creator>r0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150654</guid>
		<description>Hang in there OOB.  There are good people in the world as well the troughers.  I&#039;m glad your daughter recovered, and I hope her OE goes well.  In the end it is family that matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hang in there OOB.  There are good people in the world as well the troughers.  I&#8217;m glad your daughter recovered, and I hope her OE goes well.  In the end it is family that matters.</p>
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		<title>By: outofbed</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150652</link>
		<dc:creator>outofbed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150652</guid>
		<description>I am particularly angry about this . probably because of the deep financial poo I am in, through increasing my mortgage to pay for me to care for  a very sick daughter for two years. I just could not  to suffer the ignominy of going back Work and an Income
Blah blah rave rave 
Now back at work I now struggle  for  take home pay less the half of what English is getting from the tax payer each week to live with his wife.

It is most unjust  but then I am just bitter and twisted. 
However daughter has recovered (sort of) got her degree and is off on her OE
Mean while another meal of instant noodles awaits

NOTE  :On reflection I should have take a support person advocate with me to WINZ 
I recommend  people needing there services do the same</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am particularly angry about this . probably because of the deep financial poo I am in, through increasing my mortgage to pay for me to care for  a very sick daughter for two years. I just could not  to suffer the ignominy of going back Work and an Income<br />
Blah blah rave rave<br />
Now back at work I now struggle  for  take home pay less the half of what English is getting from the tax payer each week to live with his wife.</p>
<p>It is most unjust  but then I am just bitter and twisted.<br />
However daughter has recovered (sort of) got her degree and is off on her OE<br />
Mean while another meal of instant noodles awaits</p>
<p>NOTE  :On reflection I should have take a support person advocate with me to WINZ<br />
I recommend  people needing there services do the same</p>
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		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150649</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150649</guid>
		<description>I was just considering the words justice, fairness and equity. 

I have a dilemma. 

For I am told that a person losing their job gets no dole if their partner has a minimum wage job. They are supposed to live on $25,000 (before tax) for two people. This is little more than the dole which would be about $19,000 for two people over 25. They might get an accomodation supplement if they were renting or paying a mortgage - but this would not cover some of the initial cost and then only a proportion of the rest and only up to a maximum claim limit.

Why is the income of Bill English&#039;s partner not considered?

Why is it that Mrs English cannot provide for the housing needs of herself and her partner and their children on her own doctors salary. Do doctors not earn enough to do so? She is a GP in Wellington is she not? Her family live with her do they not? 

If not living with his wife, all Bill needs is a one flat for himself, or to share a flat with another Cabinet Minister or MP or secretary who is prepared to do the household chores (who needs a Finance Minister eating corn beef and peas and washing their own socks in a wash basin). Even in Wellington that does not cost $1000 a week (there are hotels who would charge less than that for regular guests).

If living with his wife, he needs no allowance. 

Frankly that a person on near $200,000 income with a working professional partner living locally needs an out of town allowance at all is a scandal, yet it became worse when they claimed a greater amount when their salary increased to well over $200,000. That reflects badly on all those in this system who put their hand out for their entitlement and who thus consented to its continuance. 

It should be income tested AND partner tested like any other government handout. There need to be some limits on the housing ambition of claimaints - only compensating for a proportion of their housing costs as for the accomodation supplement. 

This system (especially when seen in comparison with what government provides to others in greater need) does not do justice, it is not fair and it is not equitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just considering the words justice, fairness and equity. </p>
<p>I have a dilemma. </p>
<p>For I am told that a person losing their job gets no dole if their partner has a minimum wage job. They are supposed to live on $25,000 (before tax) for two people. This is little more than the dole which would be about $19,000 for two people over 25. They might get an accomodation supplement if they were renting or paying a mortgage &#8211; but this would not cover some of the initial cost and then only a proportion of the rest and only up to a maximum claim limit.</p>
<p>Why is the income of Bill English&#8217;s partner not considered?</p>
<p>Why is it that Mrs English cannot provide for the housing needs of herself and her partner and their children on her own doctors salary. Do doctors not earn enough to do so? She is a GP in Wellington is she not? Her family live with her do they not? </p>
<p>If not living with his wife, all Bill needs is a one flat for himself, or to share a flat with another Cabinet Minister or MP or secretary who is prepared to do the household chores (who needs a Finance Minister eating corn beef and peas and washing their own socks in a wash basin). Even in Wellington that does not cost $1000 a week (there are hotels who would charge less than that for regular guests).</p>
<p>If living with his wife, he needs no allowance. </p>
<p>Frankly that a person on near $200,000 income with a working professional partner living locally needs an out of town allowance at all is a scandal, yet it became worse when they claimed a greater amount when their salary increased to well over $200,000. That reflects badly on all those in this system who put their hand out for their entitlement and who thus consented to its continuance. </p>
<p>It should be income tested AND partner tested like any other government handout. There need to be some limits on the housing ambition of claimaints &#8211; only compensating for a proportion of their housing costs as for the accomodation supplement. </p>
<p>This system (especially when seen in comparison with what government provides to others in greater need) does not do justice, it is not fair and it is not equitable.</p>
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		<title>By: bill brown</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150600</link>
		<dc:creator>bill brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150600</guid>
		<description>Maybe she can get him to move in with Paula - she must have the space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe she can get him to move in with Paula &#8211; she must have the space.</p>
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		<title>By: outofbed</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150587</link>
		<dc:creator>outofbed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150587</guid>
		<description>I think Mrs English has the rawest deal .
She only gets 1000$ per week to live with Bill English
doesn&#039;t seem much too me</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mrs English has the rawest deal .<br />
She only gets 1000$ per week to live with Bill English<br />
doesn&#8217;t seem much too me</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Winter</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150586</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Winter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150586</guid>
		<description>Open season on politicians may be fun, and critical comment may be appropriate, but it is usually the Right that gains from any destabilisation of the democratic process. So, one ought to be very clear about the difference between a political system that may require adjustment, and a wholesale bagging of the democratic model. Perhaps a degree of perspective is called for across the political spectrum on this issue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Open season on politicians may be fun, and critical comment may be appropriate, but it is usually the Right that gains from any destabilisation of the democratic process. So, one ought to be very clear about the difference between a political system that may require adjustment, and a wholesale bagging of the democratic model. Perhaps a degree of perspective is called for across the political spectrum on this issue?</p>
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		<title>By: Akldnut</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150571</link>
		<dc:creator>Akldnut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 03:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150571</guid>
		<description>Burt
At the end of the day its a rort that hes been snapped doing and if there are others in the same boat then they should go too!!!

I would also not put it past this govt to make a retrospective ruling to try and shift the point of attack to previous govts to cover their arses.

Its pathetic that there&#039;s an allowance for this that they take willingly while an allowance for less fortunate (with better results for the people of NZ) is scraped. And then the less fortunate are persecuted by the &lt;a href=&quot;//www.thestandard.org.nz/double-standards-2/&#039;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fucking hypocrites&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burt<br />
At the end of the day its a rort that hes been snapped doing and if there are others in the same boat then they should go too!!!</p>
<p>I would also not put it past this govt to make a retrospective ruling to try and shift the point of attack to previous govts to cover their arses.</p>
<p>Its pathetic that there&#8217;s an allowance for this that they take willingly while an allowance for less fortunate (with better results for the people of NZ) is scraped. And then the less fortunate are persecuted by the <a href="//www.thestandard.org.nz/double-standards-2/'" rel="nofollow">fucking hypocrites</a></p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150564</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 02:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150564</guid>
		<description>You could just admit that the principle of property in a trust leased to PS is the same irrespective of the technicality of living in that same house or receiving tax payers money to live in some other house. I agree there is less &#039;arms length&#039; in English&#039;s case but there is only marginal arms length in the other cases and apparently you are more concerned about the right/wrong than the legal/illegal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could just admit that the principle of property in a trust leased to PS is the same irrespective of the technicality of living in that same house or receiving tax payers money to live in some other house. I agree there is less &#8216;arms length&#8217; in English&#8217;s case but there is only marginal arms length in the other cases and apparently you are more concerned about the right/wrong than the legal/illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150552</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150552</guid>
		<description>Look above, retard.

I defined it real simple, just for you. In &quot;felix isn&#039;t impressed&quot; terms.

I&#039;ve got better things to do than this. Like watch a doco about Kinski.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look above, retard.</p>
<p>I defined it real simple, just for you. In &#8220;felix isn&#8217;t impressed&#8221; terms.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got better things to do than this. Like watch a doco about Kinski.</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150550</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150550</guid>
		<description>Maty G.

Completely agree.  I&#039;m glad the will of the Green party has finally come to fruition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maty G.</p>
<p>Completely agree.  I&#8217;m glad the will of the Green party has finally come to fruition.</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150548</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150548</guid>
		<description>Still waiting for a definition of pretend and real trusts felix. I&#039;ll also give you a clue - that definition is not tainted by the actions of the unions in the 70&#039;s so running personal attacks like that will not add any clarity to your position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still waiting for a definition of pretend and real trusts felix. I&#8217;ll also give you a clue &#8211; that definition is not tainted by the actions of the unions in the 70&#8242;s so running personal attacks like that will not add any clarity to your position.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150546</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150546</guid>
		<description>Oooh, sick burn.


Not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, sick burn.</p>
<p>Not.</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150545</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150545</guid>
		<description>Yes one thing: 

You are incapable of admitting when you are wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes one thing: </p>
<p>You are incapable of admitting when you are wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150543</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150543</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not difficult to follow burt.

So far what you&#039;ve said on the topic (heh) can be summed up as:

Labour are not as transparent as the Nats, the Greens are just as bad as the Nats if not worse, and PLEASE DON&quot;T FORGET ABOUT WINSTON!! Oh and mumble mumble it&#039;s not a good look for Bill but it&#039;s probably all legal so no big deal.

I think that about covers your contribution, burt. Anything you&#039;d like to add?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not difficult to follow burt.</p>
<p>So far what you&#8217;ve said on the topic (heh) can be summed up as:</p>
<p>Labour are not as transparent as the Nats, the Greens are just as bad as the Nats if not worse, and PLEASE DON&#8221;T FORGET ABOUT WINSTON!! Oh and mumble mumble it&#8217;s not a good look for Bill but it&#8217;s probably all legal so no big deal.</p>
<p>I think that about covers your contribution, burt. Anything you&#8217;d like to add?</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/snouts-in-the-trough-2/comment-page-2/#comment-150542</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18013#comment-150542</guid>
		<description>Have you got a link where I support National rorting the system?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you got a link where I support National rorting the system?</p>
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