<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Stopping the thugs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:06:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156913</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156913</guid>
		<description>Actually it&#039;s totally consistent with his actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually it&#8217;s totally consistent with his actions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156912</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156912</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a bit rich coming from someone who banned all comments on his blog a long long time ago, a person who believes no one should be able to challenge the views he posts on his blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a bit rich coming from someone who banned all comments on his blog a long long time ago, a person who believes no one should be able to challenge the views he posts on his blog.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-1/#comment-156911</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156911</guid>
		<description>Attacks on property are violent. They are treated as such by the legal system of most Western countries. Violence is physical force and you can&#039;t attack property without it, the same as you can&#039;t attack people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attacks on property are violent. They are treated as such by the legal system of most Western countries. Violence is physical force and you can&#8217;t attack property without it, the same as you can&#8217;t attack people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-1/#comment-156910</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156910</guid>
		<description>Spot on.

All political campaigning is about publicity and spin. There are a number of lobbyist organisations out there that conduct public campaigns, with carefully crafted press releases. It is pretty easy to shoot them full of holes. Anyone who chooses to campaign publicly for their cause has to take the rough with the smooth, the risk that the public will not sympathise with their cause and turn on them instead.

Bradford has to weigh up the same risk herself, and I think that the general public does not care that much because not that many people vote Green. I think that she has chosen to publicise this as a way of countering the negativity of the referendum result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on.</p>
<p>All political campaigning is about publicity and spin. There are a number of lobbyist organisations out there that conduct public campaigns, with carefully crafted press releases. It is pretty easy to shoot them full of holes. Anyone who chooses to campaign publicly for their cause has to take the rough with the smooth, the risk that the public will not sympathise with their cause and turn on them instead.</p>
<p>Bradford has to weigh up the same risk herself, and I think that the general public does not care that much because not that many people vote Green. I think that she has chosen to publicise this as a way of countering the negativity of the referendum result.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-1/#comment-156908</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156908</guid>
		<description>I think the problem is that your own opinion is too polarised. This debate seems to have a lot in it of really the same sort of hard left opposition to the political right in general, that runs deep throughout much of this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem is that your own opinion is too polarised. This debate seems to have a lot in it of really the same sort of hard left opposition to the political right in general, that runs deep throughout much of this blog.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-1/#comment-156907</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156907</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s entirely about the fact that Sue Bradford is trying to wrest the custody of children away from parents into the arms of the State.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s entirely about the fact that Sue Bradford is trying to wrest the custody of children away from parents into the arms of the State.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-1/#comment-156906</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156906</guid>
		<description>After the 2005 election that is exactly what happened when the Clark government set out to marginalise the Exclusive Brethren.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After the 2005 election that is exactly what happened when the Clark government set out to marginalise the Exclusive Brethren.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-1/#comment-156905</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156905</guid>
		<description>&quot;but the difference is they are not pandered to by the established Left.&quot;

That is merely a matter of your opinion and credulity to claim that Bill English comparing Helen Clark to Mugabe is pandering to right wing extremists. It is of course no such thing. You may be referring to a piece of undemocratic legislation held dear by some on the left (The Electoral Finance Act) without understanding or being reasonable enough to admit that it might be a reason why Labour lost the election.

I don&#039;t see anything to support a conclusion that the established Right wing parties are more likely to pander to radicalism. There is a large degree of difference politically between the Act party and the Greens. The latter have fingers in many pies strongly connected to various movements known for organising street marches and protests, some of them very much on the fringe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but the difference is they are not pandered to by the established Left.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is merely a matter of your opinion and credulity to claim that Bill English comparing Helen Clark to Mugabe is pandering to right wing extremists. It is of course no such thing. You may be referring to a piece of undemocratic legislation held dear by some on the left (The Electoral Finance Act) without understanding or being reasonable enough to admit that it might be a reason why Labour lost the election.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see anything to support a conclusion that the established Right wing parties are more likely to pander to radicalism. There is a large degree of difference politically between the Act party and the Greens. The latter have fingers in many pies strongly connected to various movements known for organising street marches and protests, some of them very much on the fringe.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156902</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156902</guid>
		<description>&quot;what i couldn&#039;t help thinking as i read the piece was the different willingness to threaten and use violence between the right and the left.&quot;

What difference is that?

At best there is no difference at all. I think you would be best to get off your hobby horse and admit this before you get your foot stuck any further inside your mouth. 

So called &quot;peaceful protestors&quot; in various left wing causes use physical force and violence fairly often in their protest actions. Sue Bradford herself is no stranger to this having been arrested numerous times in such kinds of protest. Ditto for Hone Harawira and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;what i couldn&#8217;t help thinking as i read the piece was the different willingness to threaten and use violence between the right and the left.&#8221;</p>
<p>What difference is that?</p>
<p>At best there is no difference at all. I think you would be best to get off your hobby horse and admit this before you get your foot stuck any further inside your mouth. </p>
<p>So called &#8220;peaceful protestors&#8221; in various left wing causes use physical force and violence fairly often in their protest actions. Sue Bradford herself is no stranger to this having been arrested numerous times in such kinds of protest. Ditto for Hone Harawira and others.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156901</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156901</guid>
		<description>&quot;Add to that the fact that there has been serious money put into some of these front groups by the same far-right US interests&quot;

Just the usual xenophobic bogeymen.

Right now it&#039;s about time for every political group on the left in NZ to tell us how much support they get from overseas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Add to that the fact that there has been serious money put into some of these front groups by the same far-right US interests&#8221;</p>
<p>Just the usual xenophobic bogeymen.</p>
<p>Right now it&#8217;s about time for every political group on the left in NZ to tell us how much support they get from overseas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Swampy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156899</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156899</guid>
		<description>Your viewpoint on this issue appears to place you away from the mainstream of political expression in NZ, definitely heading somewhere out onto the radicalised end of the left wing. That is for anyone who appears not to understand why the Electoral Finance Act was an attack on free speech and that as the catalyst for the formation of the Free Speech coalition. The EFA has been repealed yet it seems there is still a few percent of the electorate who believed in it.

When we hear a lot about &quot;democracy under attack&quot; supposedly in Auckland it&#039;s worth remembering what happened before the last election, the Electoral Finance Act as a piece of pure Labour ideology, disconnected from reality and public opinion - along with a number of other laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your viewpoint on this issue appears to place you away from the mainstream of political expression in NZ, definitely heading somewhere out onto the radicalised end of the left wing. That is for anyone who appears not to understand why the Electoral Finance Act was an attack on free speech and that as the catalyst for the formation of the Free Speech coalition. The EFA has been repealed yet it seems there is still a few percent of the electorate who believed in it.</p>
<p>When we hear a lot about &#8220;democracy under attack&#8221; supposedly in Auckland it&#8217;s worth remembering what happened before the last election, the Electoral Finance Act as a piece of pure Labour ideology, disconnected from reality and public opinion &#8211; along with a number of other laws.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Relic</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156852</link>
		<dc:creator>Relic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156852</guid>
		<description>Name the Union, the worksite and the rep you prick or consider yourself tagged as a bullshitter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Name the Union, the worksite and the rep you prick or consider yourself tagged as a bullshitter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156844</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156844</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Do you not think that if Farrar banned the trolls at his blog, that they would simply vent their anger on some other right-wing blog?&lt;/i&gt;

Yes of course. And that&#039;s what he should do if he wants to disassociate himself from them.

He&#039;s choosing to provide a safe haven for these freaks. It&#039;s not something that&#039;s happened to him which he can&#039;t control, it&#039;s something he chooses to allow every day.

And if he continues to choose to allow it, why would anyone think he disapproves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Do you not think that if Farrar banned the trolls at his blog, that they would simply vent their anger on some other right-wing blog?</i></p>
<p>Yes of course. And that&#8217;s what he should do if he wants to disassociate himself from them.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s choosing to provide a safe haven for these freaks. It&#8217;s not something that&#8217;s happened to him which he can&#8217;t control, it&#8217;s something he chooses to allow every day.</p>
<p>And if he continues to choose to allow it, why would anyone think he disapproves?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156831</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156831</guid>
		<description>Yes I have read a comments thread at Kiwiblog. I would prefer if Farrar continued posting but turned his comments section off, as he does put forward the views of the right very well. The comments section is often filled with trolls however I don&#039;t think you can attribute the disgusting opinions to what Farrar is posting, as his posts are often not written in highly emotive language, and tend to be well thought out. Do you not think that if Farrar banned the trolls at his blog, that they would simply vent their anger on some other right-wing blog?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I have read a comments thread at Kiwiblog. I would prefer if Farrar continued posting but turned his comments section off, as he does put forward the views of the right very well. The comments section is often filled with trolls however I don&#8217;t think you can attribute the disgusting opinions to what Farrar is posting, as his posts are often not written in highly emotive language, and tend to be well thought out. Do you not think that if Farrar banned the trolls at his blog, that they would simply vent their anger on some other right-wing blog?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/stopping-the-thugs/comment-page-2/#comment-156828</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=19375#comment-156828</guid>
		<description>Seems there is a history of Henk van Helmond &lt;a href=&quot;http://big-news.blogspot.com/2008/02/cyfswatch-quits-last-week-whaleoil.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;not knowing who is responsible&lt;/a&gt;, even though the events are closely connected to him:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Finally Henk van Helmond, the man behind all the sites, says he did not know who threw the bricks at Clark&#039;s office. He has said he doesnt know them, nor has he met them - just had &quot;contact&quot; with htem. He says he doesnt know the people who post on his sites either - that includes Bryn Rodda. But he certainly knows a lot about the brick chucking. And he knows Bryn Rodda more than he makes out. Both have had contact with the woman who used the riding crop on her son. They`re all connected.

I know that. &lt;/blockquote&gt;  

Thanks, Dave C, for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems there is a history of Henk van Helmond <a href="http://big-news.blogspot.com/2008/02/cyfswatch-quits-last-week-whaleoil.html" rel="nofollow">not knowing who is responsible</a>, even though the events are closely connected to him:</p>
<blockquote><p>Finally Henk van Helmond, the man behind all the sites, says he did not know who threw the bricks at Clark&#8217;s office. He has said he doesnt know them, nor has he met them &#8211; just had &#8220;contact&#8221; with htem. He says he doesnt know the people who post on his sites either &#8211; that includes Bryn Rodda. But he certainly knows a lot about the brick chucking. And he knows Bryn Rodda more than he makes out. Both have had contact with the woman who used the riding crop on her son. They`re all connected.</p>
<p>I know that. </p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks, Dave C, for that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

