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Syria

Written By: - Date published: 9:00 am, February 24th, 2012 - 144 comments
Categories: democratic participation, human rights, International, war - Tags:

In a perfect world, we would all live free, in some kind of ideal democracy. We’re not there. But what we and the rest of the developed world have is a hell of a lot better than what the people of Syria have: despotic rule by the murderous son of their former murderous despot. The Syrians are trying to overthrow their tyrant, should the world help?

At first principles, I would hold that it is abhorrent for any human being to live in the conditions that Syrians live in and it is even worse for a government to suppress dissent against its rule with the violence used by Bashir al-Assad’s gang of criminals. If we were living under those conditions and we were trying to fight for our freedom, we would want help from the people whose freedoms we were trying to emulate. The golden rule says we should help others likewise.

The pre-Westphalian concept that a prince’s right to rule could be forfeit if they treated their people too badly has recently been revived by the UN as the ‘responsiblity to protect’. When Syrians are being murdered in peaceful protests and in their own homes by Assad’s heavily armed thugs, don’t those that can have the responsiblity to protect them?

The Syrian people, having initially said they wanted to win their freedom themselves, are now crying out for NATO air power to protect them from the heavy weapons of the Syrian army that are pummeling rebel towns and killing people by the dozens. They are asking international forces not for occupation or boots on the ground, but for a reprise of the successful assistance that allowed Libyans to free themselves of Gaddafi (what’s that you say? Libya’s not yet the land of milk and honey? Get over it. Check out any country 6 months after a democratic revolution, it’s not a one-step process)

So, ideally, the world would come to the Syrian people’s aid, but realpolitik is complicated.

The geopolitical context:
Don’t give me any BS about any intervention in Syria being just another ‘war for oil’. Yup, powers do use military power to secure supplies of strategic resources. They don’t stay powers long if they don’t.That’s not a justification, just stating the obvious. But Syria’s no target for the oil hungry. Its net exports are just 100,000 barrels a day. That’s like New Zealand’s net imports. Nothing. Anyway, its much easier to get your oil contracts from tame dictators than tempestuous new democracies – why do you think the US was so unwilling to get involved in Libya? Gaddafi had been very cooperative in recent years.

The geopolitical considerations here are really about Islamic sects. Syria is majority Sunni but ruled by the minority Alawites, a small Shi’ite sect that is considered not to be truly Muslim by many, particularly the Sunni Wahhabists that rule Saudi Arabia. Iran’s Shi’ite rulers, on the other hand, are strong allies of Assad. The Shi’ite dominated government in Iraq is warmly disposed towards them (Assad and Saddam were enemies, even though both Baathists), while the Sunni minority in Iraq shares tribal links, and now weapons, with Syria’s rebellious Sunni majority.

Israel, of course, has a long-standing animosity with Syria – they bombed its partially-constructed nuclear reactor in 2007. Russia is a long-standing friend of Libya. China would rather keep Assad in power, estranged from the West and in need of a powerful ally (which would all go towards strengthening China’s bond with Iran, too). Libya, for what its worth, is very supportive of the rebels, hoping the Syrians can emulate their own success in defeating their despot. Turkey is old problems with Syria (including territorial claims) and is currently playing host to some of the opposition movements.

A complicated picture. No wonder the West has been so hesitant about getting involved.

The internal politics:
Assad is Alawite but so is most of the professional army – something like 70% of the soldiers and 80% of the officers, while the vast majority of the conscripts (all males are compelled to undertake military service) are Sunnis. The last uprising, against Assad’s father, was led by Sunni Islamists, and he crushed it brutally – something not forgotten by anyone in Syria.

The current rebellion is concentrated in Sunni cities and most of the Free Syrian Army seems to be Sunni conscripts.

So, any intervention is going to be effectively taking sides in a sectarian dispute but, then, this is a country where a ruling family has built and maintained its power base by systematically favouring its own sect and repressing others – the Assad dictatorship has made the Alawites a privileged elite with the military power to protect that privilege.

Military considerations:
Syria is no Libya. In many ways, Libya was tailor-made for a a successful rebellion with outside air support: little air force or air defence, a one-dimensional fight along the coastal road with the rebellion, initially, geographically concentrated. Just establish air superiority and then blow up any armour or artillery pointing in the wrong direction.

Syria’s air defences are much more extensive and advanced than Libya’s – probably even more after visits from Russian and Iranian warships, which will have been carrying examples of those respective countries’ newest anti-aircraft systems (and anti-ship missiles?) for fielding testing. Syria has a lot more armour – 5,000 tanks! Yes, some of them 50 years old but they still work to blow up neighbourhoods and would strain the capacity of enemy air forces to destroy – and artillery, some of which is now held by the Free Syrian Army. Syria also has Scuds, which could put any neighbours off supporting an intervention unless they get supplied with anti-missile protection.

The geography is more complicated than Libya with few areas outright held by the rebels but rebel actions and protests occurring in all major cities.

It would be a very complicated fight. The US and other NATO countries could bring enough air power to bear to control Syrian airspace and whittle away at the Syrian army’s ability to massacre its own people, but could it do it in time and at a cost that the politicians would be willing to bear? Libya cost about $3.5 billion US for the international forces – the biggest chunk the UK – and heavily depleted some of the countries’ stocks of cruise missiles and anti-armour missiles. Syria would be an order of magnitude greater and the US, in particular, would be wary of running down its forces in the Middle East when the situation with Iran could boil over some time in the next six months (more on that later).

Conclusion:
So, in an ideal world, the free (for certain values of ‘free’) people of the world would help people who want to be free to overthrow the despot that is murdering them. But its easier said than done, there are complex international, internal, and military factors at play. Still, I hope that those that can act do – by using airpower to neutralise the regime’s advantage in heavy weapons. Because the alternative is that the Syrian freedom fighters will be crushed under Assad’s tanks.

144 comments on “Syria”

  1. Clashman 1

    To put it very simply, Syria=Iran=Russia=WW3. Stay the fuck out of it for the rest of the worlds sake.

    • Deano 1.1

      you think Russia or even Iran is going to actively come to Syria’s aid? Like, go to war with NATO over Syria? Get real. Supplying a few missiles to see if they work in battle conditions is one thing, but, come on, Russia’s getting rich selling oil and gas to Europe and subtly re-establishing power in its ‘near abroad’ with the same, why would they put that at risk for Assad? As for Iran, they, too, need to keep selling oil – they’re not going to die in a ditch for Syria.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        you think Russia or even Iran is going to actively come to Syria’s aid?

        What, apart from the fact that Russia routinely docks nuclear missile submarines and other heavy warships at its naval base in Tartus?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartus#Russian_naval_base

      • Clashman 1.1.2

        How much longer do you think Russia is going to sit and watch it sphere of influence be eroded by NATO/US. Iran has a defence pact with Syria. http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/93798/iran-syria-sign-defense-pact-against-39-foreign-aggression-39-.html

      • travellerev 1.1.3

        As for your remark about Russia and Iran not supporting Syria with their armed forces here are some links you might want to check: Iran, 15,000 elite troops, Russia.
        If you think Russia is going to loose the one Mediterranean harbour it has and allow the US and NATO to isolate them one bit further you’re sadly mistaken and as Israel and the US are already killing scientists, bombing military and nuclear sites in Iran I think those 15.000 black op and specialist troops send to support the regime are very much needed for Iran to keep the Western War machine as far away from their own population as possible. Better in Syria than on their own soil.
        And I’m sure China will be supporting Syria if not openly as they will Iran than with money and trade.

        Iran has plenty of opportunities to sell their oil. India, China and many European countries need their oil and in fact they have stopped delivering to the UK and France. The amounts sold to those countries to those countries may not have been much but they can still say fuck you to them.

        • Foreign Waka 1.1.3.1

          Absolutely right, Russia has lost Afghanistan with is oil route – or does anybody really think the war there is about democracy? I agree that it is in China’s interest to combine forces with Russia, they are sharing a border after all and can block the northern plane.Turkey wants to be part of Nato so the Bosporus is secured for the US. Greece won’t mind, they may have to sell their half as they have been put on notice financially (not politically). Don’t forget Israel being an alley for the US and maybe get a reward – a strip of land beyond the Golan.There are no innocent parties in that “game” and a lot of sable rattling is going on since years. The noose is just getting tighter.

          [Russia never received oil via Afghanistan. Russia doesn't need a route for oil imports - it is the world's largest oil producer and exporter. Europe and China are dependent on its exports. Besides which, Russia's fellow CIS members in a Caucasus are a far more direct route to the Middle East. Turkey has been a member of NATO since 1952. 60 years. But, hey, who's counting? Eddie]

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.3.1.1

            Ironically, there’s a good chance that the Americans in Afghanistan absolutely depend on Iranian and Russian fuel supplies (provided by independent intermediary contractors of course).

            http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10305/1099717-84.stm

          • Foreign Waka 1.1.3.1.2

            Please see this link http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/oil.html or this http://www.ciaonet.org/cbr/cbr00/video/cbr_ctd/cbr_ctd_52.html
            I lived in Europe at the time and it was no secrete that this war was about infrastructure and oil.
            I did not say that Afghanistan received oil, but rather that the USSR has build infrastructure to transport it and as all valuables wanted to protect it against US interests. As all wars it is not about democracy it is about power and money.
            Turkey wants to be part of Nato:
            Turkey’s role in the Nato is being questioned especially since the radical Muslim sects are taking hold in the east. Yes, they are a member since 52Turkey is after all a Muslim country and has invaded Europe not just once. But we are talking a few more hundred years back.

            “With the end of the Cold War, NATO’s mission changed and some saw Islamism as the new strategic enemy. Already in 1995, NATO Secretary General Willy Claes compared Islamism to the historic foe: “Fundamentalism is at least as dangerous as communism was.”
            With the Cold War over, he added, “Islamic militancy has emerged as perhaps the single gravest threat to the NATO alliance and to Western security.”

            Coupled with the saga of threatening to shut down Nato stations in Turkey if not accepted into the EURO zone is another issue not making much headlines.
            Turkey is the only MUSLIM country in Nato and is asking for many favors to be there.
            So the west looks away when the same that is condemned in other countries is actively pursued – the ongoing atrocities against the Kurd s an indigenous people on its borders. Many Europeans, who had no say about that Membership would never vote for it, no matter what the propaganda is. For a starter – just ask the Greeks…

  2. tsmithfield 2

    Yes, I think the differences we have on this blog are fairly insignificant compared to what is going on in Syria. We all should be very thankful we can publicly disagree on blogs such as this without fear of being tracked down and persecuted by the system.

    So far as dealing with the Syrian regime, a more effective way might be to actively target the leaders of the regime with the likes of drones, targeted air strikes, snipers etc. When the leaders start getting killed, the remainder are likely to lose motivation fairly quickly I expect.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      When the leaders start getting killed, the remainder are likely to lose motivation fairly quickly I expect.

      The classic US “decapitation” strategy. Doesn’t work, if you go by Iraq. Families and even entire clans turn to becoming ever more radicalised insurgents.

  3. muzza 3

    Author – Can you cite some sources of your information?

    If you are going to push an agenda of propaganda then perhaps some links.
    Personally I’m surprised the web site allowed this poorly written, factually incorrect article.

    Here is one for you http://www.tarpley.net

    • lprent 3.1

      Very similar to what I have been reading. For instance from the economist (was reading/watching these yesterday).
      http://www.economist.com/node/21547243

      And finally

      • Bill 3.1.1

        Jeez. could only watch the first seconds of ‘the economist’ link. That’s all the time it took to set up the usual propaganda platform. See, The Arab League did indeed send in a mission. But it then buried the report because it didn’t quite concur with expectations, ie it didn’t out-right condemn Assad and was pretty damned scathing of the so-called opposition. And that’s quite a different scenario to ( as the economist states) simply ‘withdrawing’ the mission, and leaving listeners to draw their own conclusions (from a background of incessant one eyed shit) on why a mission would be withdrawn.

        Here’s a piece with a link to the leaked report http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NB04Ak01.html

        • Vicky32 3.1.1.1

          That’s all the time it took to set up the usual propaganda platform.

          After weeks of being pretty confused about Syria, and deciding that I couldn’t decide, I have now come around to thinking that it all reminds me of the Libyan situation last year!
          I am not sure about the Tarpley link – it all seems a bit hysterical. However, a red flag for me was when the dead baby/incubator atrocities started being reported… it was all a bit too reminiscent of the Hill & Knowlton story in 1991. A friend of mine who wants the Americans to step in and save Syria for demawcracy, (she’s a wealthy American living in London and married to a merchant banker) sent me a link to the Economist, when I expressed my doubts. The Economist link has no credibility.

          • muzza 3.1.1.1.1

            Vicky32, and that is how you can come up with a decision. You have been able to look back in time, to other events, which had the same play book run on them, and been able to rationalise that there is likely large degrees of propaganda which people are subjected to. Thats not to say that it is not going both ways, but your analysis to get to a decision for yourself that you are comfortable with, is an example of how to think things through. Others on here could learn from you.

            SO far as Webster Tarpley is concerned, he is a well renound historian, author and academic which is not to say he is infallable, only to say that hysterical is not usually a word to asscociate with historians. If you want to get a feel for his insight, you can download free podcasts from itunes of his 2 hour weekly radio show. Just search Webster Tarpley, otherwise you can listen to them from his web-site http://www.tarpley.net
            The link wayne gave I have not listened to or watched, the radio shows are very matter of fact!

    • thatguynz 3.2

      +1

  4. Rijab 4

    Both sides are full of ‘heavily armed thugs’, reports even suggest that al qaeda elements have infiltrated the ‘activists’. Any intervention by western powers will see many (more) thousands of innocent Syrians lose their lives and a flood of weapons into the country, as has happened in Libya.

    The conclusion in the article above makes a number of assumptions. What sort of regime will replace Assad if the west intervenes? Are the ‘freedom fighters’ really fighting for freedom?

    The west should stop taking sides and pressure both Al-Assad and the activists to put down their weapons. Of course they won’t, because that wouldn’t be in their wider regional interest and this isn’t just a case of the west trying to help the Syrian people win freedom.

    In saying that, thanks for the contribution … it’s good to read about important issues like this and see some discussion!

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/201221794018300979.html (“US official says al-Qaeda involved in Syria”)

    • Deano 4.1

      So, you can have self-determination, but only if its the ‘right’ kind of self-determination? We want democracy and freedom from despots like Assad for liberals but not for Islamists? Better to leave the Syrian people to rot because some of them would form Islamist parties in a new demcoracy?

      • muzza 4.1.1

        Yeah I’m an American, Yeah

        Deomoracy anglo-saxon style!

        Wait hold on, I’m watching Fox news, but want some balance, so I’ll change the channel to CNN, I mean BBC, woops I mean Sky News, darn it, Al Jazeera…and on, and on, and on….

      • Clashman 4.1.2

        Well thats been the “Wests” M.O for a long time now.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.2.1

          Democracy is most acceptable if the electorate chooses a pro-US pro-Europe pro-central banking Government.

    • McFlock 4.2

      That’s another ingredient in the mix – if the rebellion needs assymetric expertise and equipment and the “west” doesn’t supply it, it will come from AQ-wannabes. But if the west does supply it, we could have a confrontation between superpowers.
        
      So there will be a strong block in the west just quietly hoping the inconvenient rebellion fails. 
        
      On the flipside, lowering Russian influence in the mideast could help cool the mediterranean side of it from a western perspective. So some will be arguing for assistance for the rebellion. 
        
      And then there’s the entire “replaced by what” factor – Assad is a pragmatist. the last thing we need is another zealot in charge of a west-asian country. The Israelis and Iranians are enough already, thanks very much.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

        I don’t think there is any clear bright line between people in ‘the rebellion’ and ‘AQ-wannabe’s’. Also chuck in AQ-Iraq into the mix.

        http://rt.com/news/syria-opposition-al-qaeda-us-567/

        personally I think the US will use and assist anyone who will help them get rid of Assad, and sort out the identity politics later. And why shouldn’t they?

        NB remember the US is engaging the Taliban in Afghanistan in negotiation and co-operation. Nothing is off limits in this world.

  5. Here we go again! Let’s bomb another country back to the stone age to liberate it’s people from it’s dictator.

    But… but before we buy into the propaganda crap (Bad move Standardistas to allow this otherwise magnificent blog to be used for the usual propaganda crap straight out of the mud stream media) let’s get some facts straight before we go there.

    We only attack “dictators” if their countries are sitting on oil or other resources we want if said dictators are using the oil to benefit their people instead of the US or NATO. The Us and the NATO are happy to support dictators such as the “kings” of Saudi Arabia, Jordanie and Bahrein who are compliant with the demands of the West so there goes the “let’s help the people” meme.

    Here are some links you might want to check. Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Opium, Libya

    Why is it that while every American now has to accept being groped by his or her genitals to prove they are not terrorists we are actually supporting al Qaeda in Libya and Syria and it’s equivalent in Iran.

    Here are some links you might want to check, Iran, Syria, Libya

    Syria’s legitimate opposition groups want elections and a peaceful transition to democracy while the oppose foreign intervention (which they see as occupation and war for oil) or the armament and support of rebel groups which are supported by the same groups they don’t want to intervene.

    Here are some links you might want to check Tarpley.Net,

    In Libya the new rulers supported by the US and NATO are aligned with ultra fundamentalist Muslims and known “Al Qaeda” leaders who are committing atrocities and mass murders and are generally as despotic as Mohammar Gaddafi was so with all the bombardments killing hundreds of thousand of civilians we have not improved one iota of liberation for the Libyan people.

    Here is a link you might want to check

    As for your remark about Russia and Iran not supporting Syria with their armed forces here are some links you might want to check: Iran, 15,000 elite troops, Russia.

    And last but not least if you have no idea of what is really going on in the world please refrain from writing such badly researched emotional laden claptrap and if you insist in going to war I suggest you enlist in the US army and lead the way but I have a sneaky suspicion that just like the chicken hawks in the US and NATO you will happily send someone else’s son our daughter in harms (who are sick and tired of being used by the rich and powerful to fight their illegal wars of conquest) way while flying the flag of liberty cowardly from the safety of these Islands.  
     

      You and your ilk and your pandering to the war machine disgusts me.

    • Help purgatory, to many links I fear!!!

      [lprent: 10 is the setting. So yes... ]

    • Blighty 5.2

      Your belief that we should let the Syrian civilian population be crushed by Assad sickens me.

      • muzza 5.2.1

        And you know who is killing who exactly how?

        Of course any air stikes or land invasion would only take out the “bad guys”, because thats what the media I follow tells me!

        By the way. who is funding/arming “the rebels” etc, because no-one fights for free right!

        • Blighty 5.2.1.1

          are you denying that the Assad regime is killing protestors and shelling cities?

          You would fight for free if you were living under Assad, I would hope. And you would ask for aid and weapons to prevent your family being murdered. I would hope.

          • muzza 5.2.1.1.1

            are you denying that the Assad regime is killing protestors and shelling cities? – Well, from what I read there is various groups killing all sorts of people, and that includes civillians being taken out to be used as “statistics & evidence” against the Assad regeime. Lots of info propaganda flying around, so I put it into the wider context of the “arab spring” , which as a load of BS…I mean, if Iranian Scientists are being assinated, then how can you be sure there is not external interference in Syria, just the way there was in Lybia – Thats right you cant!

            You would fight for free if you were living under Assad, I would hope – Why would you hope that, based on the fact that I have never lived there, nor pretend to know exactly what is going on…its a dirty fight though, and the media play their part of course, and the USA/UK/EU play theirs! Never lived there though, you?

            And you would ask for aid and weapons to prevent your family being murdered. I would hope. – Obviously , yes. But in this instance, I asked what you are basing your assessment of good/bad or right/wrong, as simple people so like to see things in 2 dimensions only?

            • Blighty 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Christ. There’s rational skepticism, and then there’s believing that Assad is a great guy who is being attacked by a coalition of Al Qaeda and the West and we ought to support him as he bombards his own towns.

              • muzza

                I don’t know him personally Blighty, do you?

                Blighty, the in aim in any topic, if people want to comment
                should be to attempt to get as close to the truth as possible,
                which is very difficult in the information age, because there
                is so much of it. The key thing is read as much from as many
                sources as possible, and look for trend patterns in what you read,
                then form your own opinions.

                Blindly making statements which are those thoughts given to you
                by the main stream media, just make you sound like, well, like you cant think for yourself.

                You have managed to avoid answering the questions, but feel free to try.

                How do you know who is being killed by who Blighty?

                There is little rational in your postings I’m afraid to tell you..

                Read higher up, and you will see you’re almost alone on this thred in your position!

                • Edos

                  Let’s just get this straight – do you believe that the Syrian regime isn’t currently bombarding Homs and killing civilian protestors in Damascus, or do you believe its all made up by a conspiracy of the West and Al Qaeda that is out to get Assad for some reason?

                  It seems like a pretty simple question.

                  • muzza

                    I think you need go so read some broader coverage on geopolitical history and global affairs. Not just what you see on the news, or read in the paper mate!

                    If you did, you might be able to have a cogent understanding of what is actually happening in that part of the world.

                    There has been planty of links provided by people on this thread, get stck in.

                    The further you look past into the past, the clear the future can become!

                  • muzza

                    I think you need to go read some broader coverage of geopolitical history, and current global affairs in the middel east. There are plenty of links provided by otheres on this thread, so get stuck into it.

                    Hint, it might be a little scary from what you are used to reading, it might make you question much of what you believe you knew, but that does not make it wrong!

                    The further we look back into the past, the more clearly we can see the future!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Yes, you’re talking bollocks.

                    • muzza

                      Kotahi, the truth is always out there, no matter how many lies are told, or how much spin or denial is smeared over the top of it, not even if a million years have passed since, the truth is always there!

                      To put it into a simple form you might understand….

                      When a tree falls in a forrest, if nobody hears it, does it make a sound? – YES of course it makes a sound, and like the truth, it is there, nothing, not anything can change it!

                      Doesnt mean we should stop trying to get as close to it as we can eh.

                      Much as I might try, your childish remarks give me no entertainment, but they do say something pertinent

                      #youhavebeenowned

                      [lprent: Bad idea. You'll find that I land like a ton of bricks on people starting that bloody stupid pwned, owned, and generally the set of "I have/am a bit of dick because all the blood has been sucked out of my brains into other anatomy" tactics. It usually results in a wee holiday far from our site for offenders because I get bored reading the resulting flame wars. Read the policy and avoid attracting my immoderate moderating attention. ]

                    • McFlock

                      When a tree falls in a forrest, if nobody hears it, does it make a sound? – YES of course it makes a sound, and like the truth, it is there, nothing, not anything can change it!
                      Doesnt mean we should stop trying to get as close to it as we can eh.

                      Lol - Occupational Safety and Health would disagree. But feel free to stand under a falling tree if you really want to.

                  • Populuxe1

                    The latest conspiracy nonsense that someone tried to feed me the other day is that Qatar are secretly manipulating the whole thing – oh, and apparently they are also using Al Jazeera to spread anti-Assad propaganda. Quite why Qatar would want to do this is beyond my ken, however.

          • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1.2

            What business is it of the US though?

            And if US forces were found unjustifiably imprisoning, torturing, shooting and LGB’ing civilian villages and civilian individuals, would it be fair for those civilians to ask for “aid and weapons to prevent (their) family being murdered” and to fight back against tyranny under US forces?

            Oh whoops that already happened.

      • travellerev 5.2.2

        I take it that means you have not checked any of the links such as Dr Tarpley travelling to blooming Syria and showing us there is an entirely different situation than the mud stream media wants us to believe.

        • Wayne 5.2.2.1

          Dr Tarpley is good.

          Russia Today is also a good alternative news source.

          They have great commenters such as Dr Tarpley and also an Iranian academic called Mohammad Marandi.

          This is Tarpley on the Dalai Lama (CIA monk)
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmw5FIjDDBY&feature=relmfu

          Prof Marandi on Academic imperialism:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUF8leJ_mM

          Points of view you hardly ever get from the mainstream media in the West.

          • McFlock 5.2.2.1.1

            That’s all the recommendation I needed, “Wayne”.
               
            I for one won’t be wasting my time with the tarpley links.

            • muzza 5.2.2.1.1.1

              Whats your basis for the anti Tarpley position, out of interest?

              • McFlock

                Support from Wayne – one of the more racist people I’ve encountered on the interwebs, and a person who thinks that imprisoning or shooting dissidents is an internal matter that we shouldn’t worry our decadent postmodern imperialist heads about.
                   
                Another nutbar. You two should get along fine.

                • muzza

                  Good to see you have got some further uninformed opinions Mc(flock).

                  Why bother expanding your narrow views, just because the links were provided by
                  someone who you have passed off as a racist. Its in keeping
                  with how you act on these boards though, so you get consistancy points.

                  You just remain ignorant, ill-informed, and passing judgement, better that way..

                  There’s a good lad, run along now…

                  I feel grubby that I responded to you…

                  • McFlock

                    I’ve found through long and bitter experience that if a known nutbar links to someone on the internet that isn’t a peer-reviewed journal, chances are it’s just another nutbar. And I’m not the only one here who’s called “Wayne” racist. There’s something about saying the world would be better off if all xxx were dead that tends to get up people’s noses.
                          
                    By the way, a highlight of your “fluid thinking”: 

                    You just remain ignorant, ill-informed, and passing judgement, better that way..

                    Aren’t you “passing judgement” on me with that line? I guess hypocrisy is okay from your “point of view”.

                     

                    • muzza

                      Not so thinly veiled reaction by me, to your unsolicited nutbar jibe in my direction…

                      More of an observation though Mc(flock),

                      No need really!

                    • McFlock

                      So because it is a “reaction” hypocrisy is alright?
                        
                      Interesting.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Woo hoo! Tarpley the 9/11 conspiracy theorist comes to the rescue to explain Syria, and whaddaya know, he finds a conspiracy.

                      No wonder Wayne and Muzza are so impressed.

                    • muzza

                      No Kotahi, just because you are not capable of critical understanding of complex geopolitical history, does not give you the right to throw out comments like that!

                      Have a read of this thread, and while you are at it some of the links provide by others here, you will notice that there are quite a few people who take the time to try an understand what is actually happening, its called broad spectrum analysis!

                      Again you have shown yourself up, with some rather crazy comment. You are only giving even more credence to the fact that after yesterdays vaccine banter, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!

                      Sad!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Ma gavte la nata.

                    • McFlock

                      Lol.
                        
                      I’m picking that analysis isn’t the only thing that’s “broad spectrum” here…

                • Foreign Waka

                  McFlock – I cannot see a racist comment here but I can see a preconceived opinion. Maybe the reports he suggests are not worth looking at – for you – but that does not mean that it is an absolute truth to everybody. (If there ever is such a thing). Wars start with disputes and disputes start with dislike and dislike starts with closed minds….

                  • McFlock

                    This was the last time Wayne presented a link to illustrate his pov, as far as I know. So excuse me for assuming an absolute truth that his pov is ignorant and bigotted.
                       
                    Actually, can we just ditch the perceptual relativism already? Lots of people disagree with me for good reasons, but sometimes the difference is so extreme that one of us is a serious nutbar. And on most of the topics this has happened so far, I have had reasonable grounds for assuming it isn’t me.

                    • Foreign Waka

                      Perceptual relativism?

                      There are different kinds of relativism. Conceptual relativism denies the existence of objective criteria for assessing the diversity of beliefs about the world. Perceptual relativism, which is more radical, denies the possibility of evaluating objectively the diversity of experiences of the world. Moral relativism denies that objective criteria exist for evaluating the diversity of norms.

                      Who is the perpetrator?

                    • McFlock

                      Wayne. He was the vector by which that link enetered my experience. So therefore he is a source prone to false positives when recommending links. So therefore his links aren’t worth spit. So therefore we need to fall back on the old standbys of whether syria has been in a state of emergency for decades, or the rule is not so much democratic as dynastic, and whether there is a history of human rights abuses.
                         
                      In this case, I’d probably back the devil I don’t know over Assad.

            • travellerev 5.2.2.1.1.2

              Not even the one were he actually calls in from Syria after he visited Homs. The city were according to our mud stream media like in Benghazi Libya all the rebel forces are and which is said to be the beginning of the Syrian revolution? You would think that would be interesting. At least he has the balls to go to Libya and Syria and to the hotspots in those countries. Gives him, you know, some credibility over all the other unsubstantiated “witnesses”

              • McFlock

                Um – this is the guy?
                   
                I don’t think I’ll bother. I’m sure he has the balls to claim to go to Syria and Libya, but unless I bump into him in downtown Damascus I probably couldn’t count on him getting the correct continent.

                • muzza

                  You believe what you read on wikipedia LOL, that explains , so much!

                  As with any subject matter , one should be aiming for maximum coverage, but ruling someone in/out of scope because of their wiki bio is laughable, yes in your direction!

                  You won’t see him in Libya, Syria or anywhere else in that regio Mc(Flock), because you will never be there yourself!

                  Disappear bro!

                  • McFlock

                    Seems to be broadly in line with his bio on his own website.
                     
                    Which bits of Wikipedia were incorrect?
                        
                    There’s a cruise ship in town at the moment – maybe I should check to see if he’s calling in his Syria updates from on board?

                • Dr Tarpley was there with a group of people upon invitation of a local Christian leader if I remember correctly. So far none of these people has called him a liar and telephones have number tracing so I’m sure this can and has been verified.

        • Edos 5.2.2.2

          Can you tell me why the West would suddenly want to make up stories about a civil war in Syria? The guy has always been very tame towards the West.

          And are all the scenes, all the youtube footage, just inventions, shot on a Hollywood soundstage? Those journalists that were killed, were they really CGI?

          I get being anti-war and anti-imperialism, we all are.

          I don’t get why that morphs into being anti helping the people of a country overthrow their dictator and constructing elaborate myths of how the dictator is a great guy to justify that.

          • Bill 5.2.2.2.1

            Edos, I think the argument goes that ‘the west’ has and had a hand in destabilising Syria…meaning ‘encouraging’ a civil war situation.

            And scenes don’t always show what they purport to show or what voice overs imply. ( Sometimes ‘generic’ footage is used…ie, footage that lacks any ‘markers’ as to time and place.) As an example of how news reports can seek to confound reality, refer to the footage and commentary of globalvision(?) during the coup attempt on Hugo Chavez that was uncritically picked up by msm in the west.

            And journalists get killed in war zones. That doesn’t mean they were targetted per se (although that does happen.) Eg Al Jazeera offices in Iraq.

            And I don’t think anyone is saying Assad is a ‘good guy’.

            And the west has never helped a people overthrow a dictator for philanthropic reasons. Ever. But you’re welcome to provide an example of that having been the case. Just one.

            • MValley 5.2.2.2.1.1

              You’re correct that nations are very loath to expend their power and resources, especially military power and resources in the interests of others. Which is why they were so damn unwilling to help the Libyans that Gaddafi nearly won, which would have seen slaughter on a horrific scale.

              The West hasn’t helped overthrow Assad yet. They’re very hesitant to, for the reasons I outline in the post. You see, if you had bothered to read the post, I argue that its morally wrong to let people be crushed by the army of a violent dictator but the West will probably let exactly that happen because it’s too hard (=expensive) for them to intervene.

              What confuses me is that so many people who consider themselves leftwing and, so, ought to believe in the essential equality and worthiness of all people, are so willing to let repressed people be murdered by dictators because the alternative is US military action and their hatred for the US overrides their belief in the human rights of oppressed people. It’s kind of ‘if you’re the victim of my enemy but you’re asking my other enemy for help, you can go get crushed by a tank’ logic.

              To square this circle, you will even concoct elaborate fantasies, which unconsciously repeat the propaganda of the dictatorial regime, that portray the dictator as innocent and have the rebelling citizens as either a media invention or foreign agitators.

              • thatguynz

                Michael, with all due respect I think you’ve either not read or you’ve misunderstood some of the comments.
                 
                The alternate view from yours isn’t that Assad is a benevolent old chum that can do no wrong as you assert, but rather that the view that you’re espousing isn’t necessarily the sole source of the truth.  As with any situation there are two sides to any story and often, the truth falls in the middle.
                 
                Is there any reason you believe that this case would be any different?

              • Bill

                Nah.

                I’ll put this really simply. The political legitimacy of the USSR collapsed when people, instead of looking to the ground and shuffling away when the KGB were around, expressed contempt.

                When authority is faced with utter disdain it has no way back.

                It’s not about guns and factions and foreign support…getting ‘the big guy’ on your side. (The ‘big guy’ is only on your side insofar as ‘the big guy’ is looking for some shit out of ‘the deal’.)

                The guy who’s lording it, is a bastard to be taken down. The guy who says he’s a good guy prepared to take the bastard down (while all the time only too willing to fill the power vacuum with his own interests) is also a bastard, worthy only of being taken down.

                It is the refusal to bend and scrape and bow and make deals with any of those who would assume a position of power over via any political, military or economic structure that sets us free from any ‘crushing’ that you speak of.

                It’s distain and refusal, and that alone.

              • muzza

                Good to see a reply Michael, although after the article I guess you didn’t really have much room to move, hence your response. Either that or you actually believe what you have written.

                “Which is why they were so damn unwilling to help the Libyans that Gaddafi nearly won, which would have seen slaughter on a horrific scale”

                A kiwi friend of mine worked in for ITV in the UK, and was posted in Libya for 2 years leading up to the “Kinetic Intervention”, she was also assigned
                to BBC during her time in the country. Her words to me were, and I quote ” I will never work in TV again after the lies they pulled to selling war to the
                public” – She said she could not believe the reality on the ground versus what she was watching the companies she worked for, putting on the screen
                to sell the demand for intervention by the gullible public, lapping up the distorted agenda. She simple said what she experienced in two years in the country
                was not even remotely in line with the media war sales pitch!

                I also have a friend who is a Libyan Doctor in the UK, her father is well known academic/doctor (MD), who was anti Ghadaffi, although she admits that there were many things he did
                which were to the greater good of Libya, and like the situation above, her father was regularly in Libya leading up to the war, and even currently as I understand it, could not believe the
                the lies he was seeing on TV compared to what he was seeing in Libya on the ground. They now openly admit the country was better off under Ghadaffi, than the AQ filled, inter tribal civil war. They know they have been lied to, and they know their country is now run by criminals, who will want the country in civil war, supported by the West!
                Both the Doctor, and her father, still state they are anti Ghadaffi, but openly admit that what they have now is far worse, and they regret what has happened to their country, as they feel people like themselves have contributed to an outcome they never thought they would see in Libya, and they are no longer the fans of NATO that they were 6-9 months ago!

                I’m not even going to go into the view point of yet another friend of mine, who now lives in asia – ex US Cavelry (as of late last year), and his views about the “Arab Spring” which he had an active part. He also served in Iraq and Afghastan, and has some rather telling stories from his experiences there too. None of which sound like your love fest for NATO!

                So Michael, for myself this is the sort of information that I use to form opinions, then I go looking for additional resources to see how it matches up from reports on the ground.
                Seems to me that you have done no such thing, and have written an incredibly inaccurate article, one which could well be responsible for some who read it, demanding intervention, which will lead to many more people dying, because they have been exposed to this kind of, well its propaganda isnt it !

                Your comment re – elaborate fantasies, should apply to the nonsense you have written, and is a dead give away for the fact that you have realised that the article you authored was a mistake, and desperate attempt to save face. The best way for you do to that is spend as long researching, and talking to people who have first hand accounts of Syria, and then think about writing another article, and see how it looks after you have put some honest effort into it. You can fund yourself a trip to the region by selling your nonsense article to FOX, CNN, BBC,SKY or one of the other warmonger media outlets, its their sort of writing, they would love it!

                This article is so factually out of line with reality, as do be dangerous!

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  I have a dog who’s previous owner’s girlfriend used to work for a guy who knew Dick Cheney’s secretary, and she says they know all about you.

                  Edit: masked assassins just killed my dog!!!!

                  • muzza

                    Lack of worldly experience, travel, meeting people , understanding etc, will lead a simple mind to feel threatened and resond with juvenile purile nonsense!

                    Its very easy to rubbish what other people have experienced, as opposed to actually listening, and maybe trying to learn something. Having nothing worthwhile to contibute, is not to feel bad about kotahi, people have differnet life experiences eh ;)

                    Well done showing yet again, what a very small mind with a large chip sounds like!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Yeah, but I wasn’t rubbishing their experiences, I was pointing out that your recollection of conversations you’ve had is no substitute for analysis, and in fact serves little purpose other than for you to once again pretend competence when you’re out of your depth.

                      One difference between us is that I know I’m out of my depth – hence the fact that I have confined myself to simply reading other comments, and watching the video discussions. How do I know I’m out of my depth? As a result of “worldly experience, travel, meeting people”.

                      These opinions you so loving coddle as though they are your own are nothing more than truther talking points.

                    • Bill

                      KTH.

                      Listening to people relating their first hand experiences and attendant thoughts/feelings usually offers far more insight to a situation than simply reading the analyses of people who are remote from a situation.

                      That’s not to say you can’t ‘be had’ or lied to. But if you know the people you are listening to, ie they are not random strangers or (worse) an individual trotted out by the news agencies with a story to tell, then what they say can usually be trusted and is a valuable source of information/understanding

                      Using that information as a measuring stick to guage the accuracy or veracity of any ‘remote’ analysis enhances overall understanding. ie, it nullifies or moderates the impact of the agenda of those who offer up (always) partial analysis.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Bill, fair enough, but you know how it is with telling stories: news media give away just as much by the way they report as what they report, and often the interesting stuff is what is missing entirely.

                      But there is a far bigger force at play than media mendacity here – the fog of war.

                      Alongside the individual narratives that come out of the fog – Iman al-Obeidi’s, for example – there are the many silent voices who only speak to us with a body-count (when there is one) and the grief they leave behind.

                      Which ones seem more compelling relies far more on our preconceived positions than any narrative weight.

              • Colonial Viper

                The West hasn’t helped overthrow Assad yet. They’re very hesitant to, for the reasons I outline in the post.

                “Help” comes in many forms. Putting rebels in touch with arms dealers and letting shipments reach Syria without being interdicted could be considered “help” could it not? Here is the following from Reuters:

                (Reuters) – Western and other countries are turning a blind eye to weapons purchases by Syrian exiles who are already smuggling light arms, communications equipment and night vision goggles to rebels inside Syria, a Syrian opposition source said Friday…

                “We are bringing in defensive and offensive weapons… It is coming from everywhere, including Western countries and it is not difficult to get anything through the borders,” the source told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

                http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/24/us-syria-rebels-idUSTRE81N0ND20120224

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  CV what would you expect them (the exiles) to do? No matter what the motivation, whether it be a naked power-grab or a genuine democratic uprising (or some mixture of the two, or some fourth thing), this arms trade is inevitable.

                  As for “putting rebels in touch with arms dealers” I should think the arms dealers had that part covered – core business and all that.

                  Syria’s worst enemies live in Syria.

                  • thatguynz

                    “Syria’s worst enemies live in Syria.”
                    How do you know this KTH?  Is this not the same type of assertion or assumption that you have taken umbrage with Muzza making?

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      No, just on the basis of events as reported by all sides. I am not saying that Syria has no external enemies, either – that would be naive.

                      What is beyond dispute however, is that the Syrian Army is “engaging” its own civilians. Hence my opinion.

                    • Bill

                      So everyone in Syria toting a gun is Syrian? Really!?

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Bill, that’s a strawman.

                    • thatguynz

                      Sorry KTH but that is NOT beyond dispute at all and clearly highlights the point that has been raised – that you are looking at one “side” of the information that has been presented to you.
                       
                      Indulge me for a second with a hypothetical – if somebody was shooting at you and you were suitably equipped, would you shoot back? 
                       
                      My point is that you can apply that decision to both “sides” of the Syrian situation – both the Govt troops and the “uprising”/”insurgency”/”rebellion”/ or “civilians”.  To suggest or believe that it is solely “Govt troops = bad, Opposing parties = good” is as naive as what you purport to be the alternate view.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    thatguynz that’s another strawman. Nowhere have I passed judgement of what is happening. I lean towards the idea that shelling cities is a mistake, for reasons outlined by Sun Tzu a little while ago.

                    I’m not talking about the petrified forest of good and evil either – my feelings are that one side is wrong and the other side is worse. There is a gradient between them, however.

                    Other aspects stand out for me: Syria has been under “emergency law” since 1963. Not exactly the usual pattern we associate with benign rulers is it?

              • I can only explain your hideous display of ignorance as another Kiwi rejecting the notion of sound science and facts.

                You probably still believe 19 young Arabs can break the laws of physics and buildings do collapse into the path of most resistance in free fall speed after only a couple of hours of office fires and people with a ridiculously high IQ and a study to match that IQ are really big dumbo’s and rich pricks never ever conspire to get even more rich and powerful.

                You also probably think that General Wesley Clarke was lying when he announced in 2007 that he had known the list of 7 countries to be attacked in the next five (which obviously took longer than that)  years as far back as 10 days after 911 after what he describes as a policy coup.
                Or that people called upon by the German government to advice them on foreign policies are really stupid when they object to the secret shit stirring going on in Syria based on their years of study of international geopolitics. (He speaks English with a German accent that could be a dead give away)
                And you probably still believe that the handy uprisings occurring on the precise same moment the US an NATO are ready for another war are purely local and that the information reaching us through the lying scumbag internet about thousands of US troops training in Jordan (funnily another dictatorship we don’t have a problem with), Turkish, English and Qatari (another Dictatorship we don’t have a problem with) troops stirring shit in Syria.
                And perhaps you even think that people caught in the rendition program which took them to the Syrian and Libyan prisons curtsey of the CIA where they could get tortured by the very regimes the very same CIA is now trying to get rid of kind of must have deserved that treatment because the CIA would never ever do anything to innocent people and that the guy fired from al Jazeera for his CIA connections didn’t have anything to do with the CIA any more.

                And you probably still believe that our mainstream media are telling you the absolute truth judging by their filth you repeat here without a single critical thought.

                Do I like Assad? Hell no, but if even the people opposing him don’t want outside help than who am I to support another foreign intervention.
                And please Standardistas, you have worked so hard at making this a blog with some credibility it strikes me as very, very dangerous to let this crud appear on this blog without a single believable link supporting it and appearing to be a mainstream propaganda hit piece for another “liberating” war.

                • muzza

                  Ev remember that information and belief is a mindset that most people are not equipped or prepared to challenge inside their own self, mostly because if they did so, they might likely realise that they have been mislead, and most people do not like to come across foolish, or whatever that think it might mean, so they plow on looking foolish , while making no attempt to research other opinions, fact etc, and simply rubbish others , as loony or nutbar etc when they make an attempt to dive deeper into varied possibilities and understandings.

                  I just got off the phone with a close friend, and I mentioned that I was going down to Teal Park to show support for the warfies, and my mate who is well educated, articulate etc, began spouting all the MSM nonsense about over paid, underworked unskilled over unionized workers who should have to have wages driven down because thats what the market is etc blah blah…

                  Now I have spent quite of time learning about the council investing structures, what drives the indicators for performance SOI etc for the ACIL portfolio, and where the PoAL, AIAL, DFA, including direct communications with councilors, and regulatory people, and so of course challenged back to my friend with this info that he had no idea about. He did not concede only moved the discussion along other lines regarding free market, privatisation etc and how if the unskilled warfies cant adapt to competition then they should not be in their jobs because “anyone can do it”. He was not even aware that the pay rate is around $27ph, and that they do not get penal rates. He still was not fazed that his debate was based only on one side of the mainstream delivered media propaganda!

                  My point here is that many people are not for changing Ev, and my experience do not even have an open enough mind to explore available research, or respect those who have done it. They prefer to flat our ridicule others who go against “mass popular opinion”, like its something to be ashamed of!

                  I would be ashamed to find myself taking an opinion without taking in all available resources which ever side of the fence it comes from, so that I can have some degree of confidence that my opinion is based on broad information, and can be somewhat balanced. Contrary to what some poster on this thread has read into on my posts, I am not an expert, have never tried to say I was, or believe that my views are 100% correct. I only know that I have read and referenced loads of information from all media sources, then made a decision I am comfortable with, and have faith in, simple as that!

                  Put your energy into open minded people Ev, dont waste it on closed minds who are as responsible for the worlds ill, as those actually committing them directly!

                  • Hi Muzza,

                    Thank you for your kind words but I am not writing this to open closed minds. I’m writing this because there are a lot of lurking minds keen for more information. The closed minds are merely a pathway to those people who do want information to make up their own minds. :-)

      • Foreign Waka 5.2.3

        You have first hand information? Please share it with all of us because we are all sick of the propaganda war that besets us when the real one, killing people who have no idea (far less than we do) why all this is going on. This is a war for money, oil and influence – none of which is shared with the “commoner” in the street. In fact, because of that the future might may well be perceived to lie with the likes of Russia and China who have never proposed to attach “for democracy”.

  6. Bill 6

    Must admit I’ve more or less given up reading mainstream reports on Syria. The propaganda is obvious but coming too thick and fast to counter. Pepe Escobar and some others have written informative pieces that cut through a lot of the crap we’re being spoon fed. (google if you’re interested)

    Saddens me a bit to see that a ‘standard’ poster has bought the official line hook, line and sinker. Oh well.

    And I guess the comments will deteriorate into churlish accusations to the effect that any deviation from a nice black and white, right and wrong (where ‘right’ is what dovetails with the official line coming from the media) = unequivocal support for ‘the other side’.

    • muzza 6.1

      “Saddens me a bit to see that a ‘standard’ poster has bought the official line hook, line and sinker. Oh well”

      Indeed Bill, and the quality of the articles on this site are usually between good – excellent in my opinion. This article is simply dreadful, and spouts all sorts of uninformed/generalist propaganda, which reads like some red necks attempt at world news reporting.

      I look forward to reading a response from the author about their views, and perhaps and explanation about where they got them, because if I were writing an article such as this, I would be offering some balance, not my ignorant opinion, without so much as a single link!

  7. Wayne 7

    The simple fact is Westerners have no way of understanding what is really happening in that country.

    If one said that a random Syrian or Mongolian or Belarussian, from reading a few newspaper reports in his own country could have an informed opinion on NZ’s domestic affairs, the TOW, and biculturalism, he would be laughed out of court.

    Similarly from reading a few news articles in the Western media, most of which are barely trustworthy, we think we can have an informed opinion on Syria?

    The thing that strikes me is this. The protesters are runnign around with guns. In any country, if there is an armed uprising, the government will use force, in fact has a duty to use force to crush it.

    Just look at the massive overreaction of the NZ police to the stuff in the Ureweras. If those people really had come out firing guns, do you think the NZ govt response would be any more restrained than what the Syrian regime is doing now?

    And regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, there also is the principle of non-intererence in the internal affairs of other countries. How would NZ like it if China or Russia started chiming in on the seabed and foreshore issue, or the Urewera’s trial?

    So no. Let the Syrians, the Iranians, the Chinese, whoever sort out their own internal affairs.

    • Blighty 7.1

      “Let the Syrians, the Iranians, the Chinese, whoever sort out their own internal affairs.”

      That’s a mandate for tyrants to rule and murder as much as they want. Should Pol Pot or Big H have been left alone to “sort out their own affairs”?

      • muzza 7.1.1

        News flash Blighty – The biggest tyrants and murders on the planet, are all anglo-saxon!

        Strange how you are not expecting the USA to sort out their intermal problems, or demanding someone go fix them on hehalf!

        In case you had not noticed, the Yanks passed legislation called the NDAA, which means they can arrest, and potentially kill (they already did this) US citizens, not only on US soil, but anywhere in the world, and make them disappear without any acceptable criminal proceedings! I suggest you do some reading, it might hurt for a while, but you will feel better for it, and informed people make better citizens eh!

    • Daveosaurus 7.2

      The simple fact is Westerners have no way of understanding what is really happening in that country.

      Would you care to try to explain precisely how that comment is not deeply racist?

  8. hybrid 8

    The conflict in Syria is a planned take over by North America and its Nato allies nothing more.
    Today in Tripoli the black al quiada flag fly’s proudly over the ministry of justice building,Libyans are now living in misery,most of the population were against the foreign led invasion and want the old system back,there is no security for its citizens and the country is run by militia’s.This is exactly the model required by the west to thieve that countries resources there are five thousand US troops guarding the oil port of Brega..Al Quaida governs Libya.

    So we are seeing yet another free soveriegn state being destabilized and looted by our allies (North America and the Nato club).The so called free syrian army has bases in turkey and is funded by saudi arabia and quatar who have boots on the ground,both these countries are in the pocket of the west.

    Nato countries are putting spy’s and provocateurs in Syria under the guise of journalists,some have been discovered but you wont read or hear about that in the mainstream media.
    One must remember that any state owned or corporate owned news agency follows the foreign policy of the west.Russia is rearming along with China because they will not let the free world be over run by corporate led western governments.

    To read the truth about Syria and Libya go to Lizzie Phelan.net
    Good luck to the free world.
    There’s no business like oil business!

    • Blighty 8.1

      What do the West get out of ‘taking over’ Syria? Its oil exports are negligible and its current ruler is cooperative. If you think this is all business then tell me where the profit is.

      And Al Qaeda and the US are jointly running Libya? Really?

      • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

        *Shakes head*

        To play global geopolitics you have to look at a wider context and consider Syria as just one piece being attacked on the chess board.

        The basic questions are – who normally helps Syria in the region? Who does Syria normally support in the region? Which clubs is Syria in, and which clubs oppose Syria? What is important about Syria’s resources – not just oil, but land, location, waterways and other resources.

        There are some interesting answers there.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.2

      Of course. America uses Al Quaeda to take over countries. Now it all makes sense.

      Lame, and twisted, all at the same time. Truthiness just got truthier.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1

        Of course. America uses Al Quaeda to take over countries. Now it all makes sense.

        Appeared to work for Iraq and Afghanistan, no?

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.2.1.1

          Yes, in witless paranoia land.

          • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1.1

            I guess you’re right. The Iraq war led by the US didn’t hand Iraqi governmental power over to AQ, it handed it over to pro-Iranian Government Shi’ite Muslims.

            Claims that Saddam Hussein and AQ were linked were never more than convenient fabrications to justify the invasion of Iraq to the US people.

            Nothing too paranoid or witless in all of this, eh? Just the incompetence and short sightedness of Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.2.1.1.1.1

              Yep. SNAFU, not conspiracy. Neo-conservative economic incompetence doesn’t suddenly transform into Machiavellian brilliance in military strategy.

              The idea that people who believe in trickle down are smart enough to dream this up is hilarious. Or perhaps they’re playing a double-double-double game! Who can tell?

              But you know what really convinces me? You have ignored the power and influence of Buzz Aldrin and his ability to induce mass-hallucinations. Any narrative that ignores the ongoing power struggle between Aldrin and the HAARP cabal is obviously made up.

              • Colonial Viper

                *Shrug*

                The best of the best in the US are still extraordinary. The fact that their bosses are a bunch of self serving kleptocrats is neither here nor there.

                Yep. SNAFU, not conspiracy. Neo-conservative economic incompetence doesn’t suddenly transform into Machiavellian brilliance in military strategy.

                Remember, failure of the war does not equal failure of the fraud. Halliburton (Dick Cheney’s old company) did very well out of the protracted conflict and insurgency, for instance.

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  Taking advantage of gross incompetence to make a profit is a pretty standard business strategy. Halliburton’s have taken advantage of the disease in America’s body politic. To what extent are they the origin of the malaise? Carriers perhaps?

                  It is no more in our interests that America be unstable and rotten than it is in Syria’s or China’s. But to blame business for taking advantage is a cop out.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    But to blame business for taking advantage is a cop out.

                    uh, businesses of this type don’t believe in simply “taking advantage” when the opportunity happens to come along. They believe in proactively creating opportunities. A big difference.

                    And before you suggest that this is idle “paranoia”, the highly paid corporate lobbyists on capital hill are part of the machine which does just that.

              • felix

                “The idea that people who believe in trickle down are smart enough to dream this up is hilarious.”

                It’s cute that you think Cheney and Rumsfeld believe in trickle down.

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  Cute? Well then I’ll just flutter my eyelids.

                  I haven’t been able to concentrate on the Cheney Rumsfeld narrative for a while now (hours in the day etc.). I daresay this is a learning moment.

          • muzza 8.2.1.1.2

            Are you deliberately belligerent, or do you like to make an online fool of yourself , just because?

            Why do you openly ridicule what you clearly have not bothered to try and understand, its not that hard , really, and there is plenty of the mainstream media who you believe reporting various snippets of detail!

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.2.1.1.2.1

              Are you deliberately ignorant, or do you like to make an online fool of yourself, just because?

              Why do you openly pretend competence in a field in which you have no expertise? Why do you make up ridiculous strawman arguments? It’s not that hard to spot that you think reading newspaper reports and self-referencing nonsense is a substitute for understanding.

              Have I disputed the presence of AQ in Libya? We weren’t even talking about Libya you dribbling fuckwit. And had we been, you are no more an expert on that than you are on economics, politics, medicine, logic, reason, or any other damn thing.

              Yes, I think that ridicule is a bloody good razor, why does it not surprise me that you have a problem with that?

              • muzza

                “Yes, I think that ridicule is a bloody good razor, why does it not surprise me that you have a problem with that?”

                Translation – I am too lazy too stupid too self absorbed into my own AWESOMENESS, that bothering to make any attempt at well rounded balance is beyond me.

                The authors response referenced Libya, to which I replied, you ridiculed my response based on, what you know about my life, experiences or the people I know, which is approximately nothing.

                I have no problem with that at all, you just keep ridiculing, because it makes you look really clever ok!

                AWESOME!

                This is my last response to you, like Gosman, you are simply a waste of energy!

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  Are you serious? “Well-rounded balance?” Would that be your personal assessment of your own position? lol

                  I am generally unaware of my own confirmation bias – or it wouldn’t be bias, but at least I understand that it exists, rather than swaddling myself in delusions of “balance”.

                  Oh, and once again you’ve got a strawman: I ridiculed your response based on what I have seen of your comments – which as I say, demonstrate no expertise in any of the fields I mentioned.

                  But really, I find the subject of “Muzza” mind-numbingly tedious, so lets leave it there.

          • travellerev 8.2.1.1.3

            Here you go, the Al Qaeda flag waving from the Benghazi court house after the murder of Gaddafi.

            Here and here are some names you might want to check out and there are already 500-600 Libyan troops under the leadership of a known al Qaeda operative in Syria and did I mention that the new al Qaeda leaders of Libya have reintroduced Sharia law which was minimized under Gaddafi?

    • Vicky32 8.3

      To read the truth about Syria and Libya go to Lizzie Phelan.net

      I tried! It seems her site is closed down…

       

    • Bill 8.4

      Thanks for the link hybrid and Te Reo Putake.

  9. james 111 9

    It is amazing how much latitude the greatest socialist organization in the world the UN gives Muslim countries to murder their own people without stopping them.
    Then we have those lovely socialist countries like Russia, and China who dont care about all the people being murdered women, children,anyone .

    They give a free hand to let the killing continue they wont let other countries step in. Who would ever want to be ruled by a communist / socialist party such as those. Where there is zero respect for human life

    • thatguynz 9.1

      My gosh you’re dense James.  Your myopia is a thin veil for your profound lack of intelligence…

      • james 111 9.1.1

        What I say is true if the two Socialist countries or communist countries Russia & China had any value for human life.They would let peace keeping troops in now.No they veto it

        The other Arab countries want Peace keeping troops in there now. However these two countries and their misplaced ideaology which does not value human life let the attrocities continue

      • james 111 9.1.2

        So you agree with Russia & China heartless decision not to allow in peace keeping troops when the rest of the Arab world wants them in there.

        If so your thoughts can only be construed from blind ideaology as there are no hummanity values in them at all

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1

          when the rest of the Arab world wants them in there.

          When you say “Arab world” you mean Qatar and Saudi Arabia, vassal states to the US?

          • james 111 9.1.2.1.1

            Yes and Turkey Egypt
            So you agree let the killing go on .You support the decision of your socialist brothers China and Russia. Your happy with women ,and babies being blown up.

            The world sits and watches paralised by Russia and China as they are happy to let the carnage continue. Where do you sit CV happy with Russia and Chinas Vetos just because they are Socialist countries? ,and their thought must be right and not challenged

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.1.2.1.1.1

              Shame! Shame on you, exploiting Syria’s tragedy to advance your politics.

              Goodness knows what Russia and China’s rationale for their positions are. You certainly don’t, James 111.

            • thatguynz 9.1.2.1.1.2

              What a completely inept one eyed muppet..  Far be it for me to defend Gosman but when he’s here he at least makes a pretense at semi-rational debate.
               
              Your jaundiced view and attempts at trolling are piss-poor at best.  You probably don’t even see the similarities between those that you denounce and those you revere…
               
              Dickhead.

              • james 111

                So Richard Cranium you agree with Russia &a and; Chinas Decision not to let in Peace Keeping troops and stop the killing of innocent civilians yes or no?

                • thatguynz

                  “Peace Keeping troops”
                  By who’s assessment?  Yours?


                  “killing of innocent civilians”
                  Again, by who’s definition?  I’m not in a position to confirm or dispute that the majority of casualties are innocent civilians.  Are you?


                  If however you’re asking whether I agree with Russia and China having the power of veto at the UN Security Council, no I don’t, but nor do I agree with the US having the same power.  Do you?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    james forgot that peace keeping troops can’t do their job if there is no peace to keep.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    The majority of casualties are innocent civilians. Don’t let any post-modern rationale affect your reading of this.

                    The Syrian army is deploying artillery against Syrian cities.

                    “The general who cannot master his anger orders his troops out.
                    Like ants. Sending one in three to their deaths. Without taking the city.

                    This is the calamity of siege warfare.”

                    Sun Tzu.

                    • thatguynz

                      Perhaps KTH but you can’t prove that just as much as I can’t disprove it (assuming I even wanted to).  Without independent observation/validation there is only one message coming out – that is the point.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Proofy schmoofy was a bear,
                      Proofy schmoofy lost his hair.
                      Then he wasn’t proofy, wussy?

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  james 111 when did your partner stop beating you?

                  • james 111

                    Kotahi
                    I think your particular race has some of the worst statistics in the World for beating each other . We dont beat in our family we discuss. We listen to each others opinion again because we arent blinded by ideaology.
                    Go spread the word amongst your Whanau might be a very positive thing for them to learn get the tribalism out of their lives

                    • thatguynz

                      Yet again you prove that you are simply a racist prick..
                       
                      I can only hope that one of the mods will see your continuation of this crap and you’ll get another breather to potentially grow some semblance of a brain (although I doubt your ability to do so).

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      It is wrong to mock the afflicted James 111, so ethics require that I come clean to inform you that “Kotahi Tane Huna” translates as “One Anonymous Bloke”. Racism is a disease of the spirit. See your doctor.

                    • McFlock

                      That response was just so wrong on so many levels that Sacha Baron Cohen would have been proud. I’m not sure anything in jimmy3′s answer was factually correct, contextually relevant, or morally acceptable.
                      Just wow.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Just for James, to establish my spiritual and racial purity, perhaps, I should change to “Un dyn Anhysbys”. No?

        • thatguynz 9.1.2.2

          That’s not what I said.  Do you even proof read the tripe that you write or does it just dribble out in a steady stream of idiocy?
           
          I suggest you actually read a bit about what is or may be going on in Syria before you come in here parroting what you read on Fox news or some such..  ie. Apply some critical thought to the process – it’ll do you wonders.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.2

      This is your response to the ongoing murder in Syria?

      A cheap jibe about Socialism (a mindset that is thoroughly foreign to yours) in place of something genuine?

      Shame on you.

    • muzza 9.3

      The UN have a selective policy of interference James, usisng them as an example of what not to do, is entirely accurate!

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.3.1

        Remind me again what sort of interference policy shouldn’t be selective would you. Please.

  10. Kotahi Tane Huna 10

    Let’s say Russia and China come around to the idea of co-ordinated interference with the Syrian rulers’ military capability.

    What then?

    “In war, better to take a state intact than to destroy it.”
    Sun Tzu.

    Take it for whom? The Syrians? Which ones?

    I choose the ones who plan to hold democratic elections. And I choose the strategy that attacks Assad’s strategy before it attacks Syria’s army.

  11. Mike 11

    My oh My…I have never read such a load of claptrap in all my life. You my friend would have to be either a shill or the most brainwashed, ignorant, uninformed, and pathetic non intellectual Kiwi that I have ever had the mis-fortune to come accross on the WWW.
    Hey… If you feel so strongly about it, I’m sure you could go to Syria & offer yourself as a volunteer any time you like.
    I was going to call you a moron but I didn’t want to insult morons, as most of them would be able to say at least one intelligent thing on a blog the size of the one you just wrote.
    Do youself a favour mate…turn off the idiot box.

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    The latest revelations that Judith Collins sent the contact details of a public servant to WhaleOil in a desperate attempt to divert media attention from a bad story is abhorrent, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “John Key and Judith Collins...
    Labour | 19-08
  • It’s downhill from here under National
    The forecast drop in exports and predicted halving of growth shows that it’s downhill from here with National, Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker says. “Growth under this Government peaked in June and halves to two per cent in coming years....
    Labour | 19-08
  • John Key loses moral compass over Collins
    John Key has lost his moral compass over Judith Collins’ involvement with Cameron Slater and lost touch with New Zealanders’ sense of right and wrong, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “Whoever is Prime Minister there are expectations they will not...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Mana Movement General Election 2014 List confirmed
    The MANA List is now confirmed with all the candidates as below (the numbers are the respective Internet MANA rankings). Candidate, Electorate, Internet MANA List Position Hone Harawira, Te Tai Tokerau (1) Annette Sykes, Waiariki (3) John Minto, Mt Roskill (4) Te Hamua Nikora, Ikaroa-Rawhiti...
    Mana | 18-08
  • PREFU likely to confirm dropping exports
    National’s economic management will be put under the spotlight in tomorrow’s PREFU given clear signs the so-called rock star economy has fallen off the stage, with plummeting prices for raw commodity exports, Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker says. “Under National,...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Record profits while Kiwis face a cold winter
    The record profits by two of New Zealand’s largest electricity companies will be a bitter pill for New Zealand households who are paying record amounts for their power, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “No doubt the Key government will...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time for John Key to answer yes or no questions
    John Key’s train-wreck interview on Morning Report shows he is no longer capable of a simple yes or no answer and has lost touch with what’s right and wrong, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “John Key has become so media...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Key must clarify who signed out SIS OIA
    Yet again John Key is proving incapable of answering a simple question on an extremely important issue – this time who signed off Cameron Slater’s fast-tracked SIS OIA request on Phil Goff, said Labour MP Grant Robertson. “John Key’s claim...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time to invest in our tertiary education system
    A Labour Government will fully review the student support system – including allowances, loans, accommodation support and scholarships – with a view to increasing access and making the system fair, transparent and sustainable, Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Maryan Street says....
    Labour | 17-08
  • Labour will facilitate regional Māori economic development agencies
    The next Labour Government will facilitate the creation of regional Māori economic development groups lead by iwi and hapū to work in partnership with business and public agencies as part of its Māori Development policy. “Labour is committed to working towards...
    Labour | 16-08
  • PRIME MINISTER’S DENIAL AT ODDS WITH NATIONAL PARTY STATEMENT
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has today released an email from the General Manager of the National Party that directly contradicts recent statements from the Prime Minister in relation to the 2011 breaches of Labour Party website databases. In his stand-up...
    Labour | 16-08
  • Labour committed to a healthier NZ for all
    A Labour Government will shift the focus of the health system from narrow targets and short term thinking to make public health and prevention a priority, Labour’s health spokesperson Annette King says. Releasing Labour’s full Health policy today she said...
    Labour | 15-08
  • Time Key took responsibility for Collins
    It is well past time for John Key to take some responsibility for the misuse of power and information by his Minister Judith Collins, and follow through on his last warning to her, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “The evidence released...
    Labour | 14-08
  • Dear John, time to answer a few questions… – Harawira
    “When Cameron Slater says about Kim Dotcom ‘I have lots on him…death by a thousand cuts…wait till you see what comes out in coming weeks on that fat c***t’, you have to ask whether this is the same Cameron Slater...
    Mana | 14-08
  • MANA CANDIDATE FOR IKAROA RAWHITI OPENS UP ABOUT SUICIDE
    “This week suicide has claimed yet more lives in whanau and communities in Ikaroa Rawhiti, and my heart goes out to those who are dealing with such a tragic loss”, says MANA candidate for Te Ikaroa Rawhiti, Te Hamua Nikora....
    Mana | 14-08
  • Offshore betting in Labour’s sights
    A Labour Government will clamp down on offshore gambling websites that deprive the local racing industry of funds, Labour’s Racing spokesperson Ross Robertson says. Releasing Labour’s racing policy today, he said betting on offshore websites is a major threat to...
    Labour | 14-08
  • Key has serious questions to answer on Dirty Politics
    John Key must answer the serious questions raised in Nicky Hager’s new book which reveal examples of dirty politics that New Zealanders will be deeply concerned about, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “Many people will be disturbed by the evidence...
    Labour | 14-08
  • Creating an inclusive society for disabled people
    A Labour Government will provide free annual health checks for people with an intellectual disability, Labour’s Disability Issues spokesperson Ruth Dyson said today in announcing Labour’s Disability Issues policy. “We will also employ another 100 additional special education teachers and...
    Labour | 14-08
  • Media Advisory – MANA name change
    This is to advise all media that on the 24th of July the ‘Mana’ party name was officially changed to ‘MANA Movement’ under the Electoral Act 1993.  The inclusion of the word ‘Movement’ in our name shouldn’t come as a surprise...
    Mana | 13-08
  • New Zealand must help in the growing Iraq crisis
    The humanitarian crisis in Iraq looks certain to get worse before it gets better,” said David Shearer Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson. “New Zealand should urgently pledge increased humanitarian assistance to United Nations agencies and NGOs present on the ground....
    Labour | 13-08
  • Allegations of migrant worker rort should be investigated
    Labour is calling for an investigation into the alleged exploitation of workers at Hutt Railway workshops, hired to repair asbestos-riddled DL locomotives. Hutt South Labour MP Trevor Mallard has written to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment asking that...
    Labour | 13-08
  • Medical and dentistry students get reprieve under Labour
    A Labour Government will restore the right of medical and dentistry students to get student loans after seven years of study because it is the right thing to do, Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Maryan Street says. “Hard on the heels...
    Labour | 13-08
  • National must stop meddling with ACC before the election
    The redesign currently occurring at the Accident Claims Corporation (ACC) for sensitive claims needs to be put on hold immediately, said the Green Party today.The Green Party is concerned about work currently underway at ACC involving the sensitive claims service...
    Greens | 13-08
  • Markets slow but first home buyers still hurting
    First home buyers are hurting more than ever as the supply of affordable houses in the market dries up, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “The Reserve Bank will be happy LVR minimum deposits and rising interest rates have dampened...
    Labour | 13-08
  • Green Party celebrates MOU win on contaminated sites
    The Green Party is celebrating the announcement of a national register of contaminated sites today, and $2.5 million to start cleaning two sites up. The Green Party and the National Party agreed to include toxic site management work in their...
    Greens | 13-08
  • Emergency staff at breaking point
    The Southern DHB is so cash-strapped it is failing to fill nursing rosters, Labour’s Associate Health spokesperson David Clark says.  “Every day emergency department nurses arrive at work knowing they are likely to be carrying more than their recommended workload. ...
    Labour | 12-08
  • ACC minister fails in mission to change culture
    The latest damning report by the Auditor General shows that the ACC Minister has failed to fulfil her mission to fix the sick culture at ACC and real change will not come till a new Government is elected, the Green...
    Greens | 12-08
  • Labour’s regional development fund to support Palmerston North
    Labour will consider a proposal to develop an inland port at Palmerston North, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “The Palmerston North community has developed plans for an inland port which will bring jobs and economic growth to a region which...
    Labour | 12-08
  • Green Party announces priorities for Christchurch
    The Green Party has today announced its plan for a fairer, smarter and more democratic Canterbury rebuild, with a focus on smart transport solutions, restoring local democracy, and keeping Christchurch's assets.The plan sits across all of the Green Party's priorities...
    Greens | 11-08
  • Rock-star economy unplugged by China log jam
    The collapse of log prices due to oversupply in China threatens to wash the gloss off what remains of National's so-called rock-star economy, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “Already this year the price of milk solids has plunged by more...
    Labour | 11-08
  • Young job seekers dealt a poor hand
    National's "keep 'em poor" card for young people on a benefit is a sorry substitute for job training, Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Sue Moroney says.  The Government today announced it would extend its payment card scheme to all teen parents...
    Labour | 11-08
  • Labour – achieving change for Kiwi women
    Working towards being a world leader in eliminating violence against women and children will be a priority for a Labour Government. Releasing Labour’s Women’s Affairs policy today spokesperson Carol Beaumont said while Labour had a proud track record of achieving...
    Labour | 11-08
  • A Matter of Whether John Key is Credible
    Headline: A Matter of Whether John Key is Credible Analysis by Selwyn Manning. Prime Minister, John Key.WITHIN NATIONAL’S STRATEGY TEAM there is an acceptance that the facts revealed in the book, Dirty Politics, is chewing away at the party’s popular...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • TDB Political Diary for 2014 Election
    Here are the political events TDB will be covering this election. I will be live tweeting these events and  blog reviews will follow the next day. Internet MANA launch – August – Sunday 24th – 1pm, Western Springs School Green...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • One man’s struggle to find a copy of Dirty Politics
    I’m typing this on top of Dirty Politics.  I got the last copy yesterday morning at the local branch of a chain bookshop.  I was really in to get the paper.  I know it sold out – everyone knows - but the first thing...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • From Tucker to Key – while you were out
      From Tucker to Key – while you were out...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • Amnesty International – Justice is not Blind in Ferguson
    When a US cop pulls a gun on an unarmed man, he could be acting upon a series of impulses that have been formed since before he or she could talk. What does that police officer see in front of...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • Putting an end to zero-hour contracts in 2015
    All around the world attention is being drawn to what have been dubbed in the UK “zero-hour contracts”. These are contracts that don’t have any guaranteed hours even though the worker may be regularly employed. Unite Union has been struggling...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • NZ’s Foreign Aid: The Party Policies Compared
    For the past two elections, I’ve cast my vote based on a single question, which party promises to give the most money in foreign aid? I grant that this is a fairly narrow and simplistic lens through which to judge...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • Steering By The Real: Chris Trotter responds to Paul Buchanan
    WHEN ACADEMICS take to blogging the rest of us best be careful. And when they offer comment on the subject of dirty politics we should all pay attention. I will always remember my history lecturer, Dr Michael Cullen’s, confident dismissal...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • Interview Between Selwyn Manning & Sean Plunket Over SIS Release of OIA...
    During a RadioLive interview between host Sean Plunket and managing director of Multimedia Investments Ltd, journalist Selwyn Manning, a fiery exchange developed after Plunket attempted to “wet flannel” the issue of whether the Prime Minister has been truthful over what...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • “Even though my hours are being cut, my rent doesn’t get cut to compens...
    Fast Food = Slow Pay   Lola is a manager at a major fast food chain. Last year her employer arbitrarily cut her hours from 32 hours to anywhere between 18 and 26 hours each week. “I said I can’t...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Hate Politics has no place in NZ Politics
    I wasn’t going to write about Nicky Hagar’s ‘Dirty Politics’.  There are plenty of policy issues to discuss. Then I read the book, and what it reveals strikes at the very heart of our democracy. My overwhelming feeling is one...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Pak’nSave pull adverts from Whaleoil
    Pak n Save have replied to complaints that their adverts were appearing on hate speech site Whaleoil by deciding to block their adverts from appearing on the site. Their reply… Congratulations for Pak’NSave on making this type of ethical stand. They...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Herald Poll – Why the Greens will hit 15%
    The biggest problem for John Key is that there are swathes of National Party voters who are educated and decent people whom will be forced to read Dirty Politics out of intellectual curiosity and will be horrified by what National...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Dirty Politics and Dirty Media
    The Nicky Hager book is mind blowing on so many levels. The revelations of government ministers and their staff colluding with vile and hateful schemers to attack other people, is truly ugly. When the dust settles on the illegalities, immoralities...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • “You just have to keep on fighting” – an interview with Metiria Turei
    We’re meeting in her office. It’s austere, though she does have a nice teapot. The view is startling. One can map the Bowen Triangle, though the teapot is still more interesting. A group of pink faced men are running across...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Taxation and Real Estate – turning housing debate on its head
    The debate about property prices in New Zealand is disingenuous. It is clear that there is a global process in which speculators are using massive amounts of unspent and borrowed money to blow bubbles in the world’s major asset markets....
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Michael Wood – Faith and politics
    In a week which has seen our collective focus shift to those who see politics as a great game to be manipulated for their own ends, it is timely to reflect on the fact that many people are in fact...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Government’s Own Guidelines Show John Key Would Have Been Informed Of SIS...
    Analysis by Selwyn Manning. INFORMATION THAT I HAVE ACQUIRED, sourced from the State Services Commission, states in black and white the tight guideline requirements that must be followed whenever the SIS informs a Prime Minister of any pending release of...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Simply Not Credible: Dr Tucker’s “clarifications” are only making thi...
    THAT DR WARREN TUCKER, Director of the Security Intelligence Service in 2011, agreed to the release of politically sensitive material – thereby intervening in an on-going contretemps between the leaders of the National and Labour parties – without receiving the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • The Donghua Liu Affair: Evidence of Collusion between the NZ Herald and Imm...
    . 1. Prologue . The Donghua Liu Affair hit  the headlines on 18 June, with allegations that David Cunliffe wrote a letter in 2003,  on  behalf of  business migrant, Donghua Liu. Four days later, on Sunday 22 June, the Herald...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Dear Canon NZ – Malevolence should induce revulsion, it shouldn’t be ce...
    Giovanni Tiso’s analysis on Slater is possibly the best in NZ… It’s been a good week for some of us. A week of feeling vindicated, offeeling galvanised. Where it goes from here will depend on several factors, some of which are largely...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • 5AA Australia: After Dirty Politics Can National Provide Stable Government?
    AS WE ALL KNOW New Zealanders and Australians do not like political parties that are unstable, or can no longer assure us that they are able to provide stable government. And the big question for Kiwis as we prepare to...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • SIS letter means it’s over for Key
    It’s over. I may not agree with all of Phil Goff’s positions, but you can’t question his integrity the way Slater did in Dirty Politics and not be deeply concerned that our Secret Intelligence Agency is being used for political...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • who to vote for in Epsom
    who to vote for in Epsom...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • The Rise and Fall of John Key – who will be the next leader of National P...
    . . It was all set to go: Teamkey would be the cult of personality that would do Stalin, Mao, Reagan, Thatcher, or any of the Nth Korean Kim Dynasty, proud.  National and it’s “Teamkey” propaganda strategy   would cash-in Big Time...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Who said Kiwis couldn’t get a fire in their bellies over an arcane intern...
    An amazing team of activists has taken the campaign on the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) to local governments throughout the country. Their latest triumph came last Monday when the Dunedin City Council endorsed a resolution expressing concern about the TPPA...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • National’s Dangerous Education Agenda Exposed
    Putting aside the dirty politics coming out of the Beehive and the right-wing blogisphere, there are some very strong signals that another term of a National Government would do even more serious damage to the public education system. The Education...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • We can have clean politics and get our democracy back.
    Something is rotten in our politics and it stinks. Dirty politics has sadly become one of the defining features of this election campaign. In the light of recent revelations about the extent of nasty and disingenuous political strategies, it would...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Book burning copies of Hager’s book? The next generation of National Part...
    It seems we are getting the next generation of National Party Dirty Politics now. There are claims the Young Nats in Hamilton are buying up copies of Dirty Politics and burning them. One witness was contacted by the Waikato Times...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • National Party Poetry Day Haiku
    Key’s inbox and Cam’s poison most foul, there he blows hoist by own harpoon...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Why Cunliffe will be the next PM
    David Cunliffe will be the next Prime Minister of NZ. Labour’s inclusive and positive TV adverts… …are in stark contrast to National’s team of white people powering away from the rabble of the ‘others’… …the messaging is vital and crucial...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • From smiling assassin to grumpy butcher – on giving Judith Collins a last...
    After #dirtypolitics Key isn’t the smiling assassin, he is the grumpy butcher. When he said Judith had  a ‘last chance’ he meant 1 second after voting closes on 20th September. Key would love nothing more than to cut Collins loose and end...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • If the National Party rowing advert was real….
    If the National Party rowing advert was real there would be more blood in the water. If the National Party rowing advert was real it would be Cameron Slater calling the strokes. If the national Party rowing advert was real,...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Cameron Slater: Zionist and political pundit
    It is hard to know where to start with right-wing blogger Cameron Slater (Whale Oil), especially after the release of Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics. This confirmed everything many of us thought Slater to be: a snivelling pundit who serves...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Bryce Edwards stood down from Herald for election season??? Are the editors...
    I only found this out via twitter last night and I am still in shock. Bryce Edwards, easily the best critical thinker and news analyst the NZ Herald has has been stood down by the NZ Herald ‘for the election...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • So who’s a “conspiracy theorist” now?!
    . . As the media storm over Nicky Hager’s book, “Dirty Politics“,  and allegations over smear campaigns continue to swirl,  National’s spin doctors have given Key, Collins, and other National Party ministers a string of  phrases to use in all...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Momentum shift
    When you are deeply immersed in a local campaign sometimes it can be difficult to see the helicopter view.   I don’t know how accurate the political polls are and have always known that things can change quickly in politics...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Dear Toby Manhire. Bad call on backing Farrar
    Oh dear. I say this as someone who regards Toby Manhire as one of the smartest journalists/commentators/columnists this country has, and I think Toby has made a terribly dumb call here. Let’s see if Toby is still singing Farrar’s praises...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Radio NZ apologise to me for getting it wrong
    Radio NZ have contacted me, reviewed the claim by their host that I had an advance copy of Nicky Hager’s book and they have concluded they got it wrong, they have called me and apologised and will make a statement...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Reclaim UoA – Students’ Message to Steven Joyce
    Tertiary Education – we’ve been sold a lemon  A group of 30 students attended an event on Tuesday evening about ‘the future of tertiary education’ at which the Minister of Tertiary Education Steven Joyce was slated to speak. As Joyce...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Can someone in the media please ask the PM of NZ to categorically deny any ...
    Now we see the MO of Slater & Co, the setting up, the digging for dirt, the use of staff to dig that dirt, can the Prime Minister of NZ categorically deny any National Party staff worked with Cam Slater...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Panic setting in for National as they realise what’s about to happen
    And the terror starts to set in. I’ve never seen blind panic like this before  and it’s spreading as the enormity of what’s about to happen starts to sink in. Hager’s book is a mere entree, Nicky’s personal ethics wouldn’t...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Hager’s Dirty Politics: what the book ultimately reveals is abuse of powe...
    Guide to the many faces of John Key Nicky’s book is now doing what I suspected it would do, create a shockwave of revulsion. Andrew Geddis over at Pundit Blog sums up this attitude best, and it’s reverberations build with every...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Fancy taking children seriously
    Let’s see why all political parties should pay close attention to the Green Party’s policy for children. First, it is a comprehensive attempt to put children, not ideology, at the heart of family policy. Wow, children at the heart of...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Amnesty International: Dear Azerbaijan, Stop Torture, Love Kiwi Kids
    This is a world where many adults often underestimate Generation Y. Being only a few years out of being a teenager myself, I feel I can make this statement with certainty. However, I have been the Youth Intern at Amnesty...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • GCSB meetings today in Christchurch 1pm at Uni 7pm at Cathedral
    The 2014 GCSB meetings to discuss the mass surveillance state legislation passed by this Government will be debated in Christchurch today at two different meetings. 1pm at Canterbury University bottom floor James Height Building: Chair: Bomber Bradbury Ruth Dyson – Labour Party...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Things that 7 Sharp should probably be talking about
    Things that 7 Sharp should probably be talking about...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Guide to when Key is lying
    Guide to when Key is lying...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – The State of the Student Nation …or is just Al...
    Students politics are dead and our student media is in terminal decline. The most disappointing thing about university is the politics, or should I say lack of? I was raised with the idea that students held the power.They were the...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Love Lifts Us Up: Thoughts from the Green Party’s campaign launch.
    Author Eleanor Catton wants people to give their party vote to the Greens.Photo by Peter Meecham NO ONE WAS QUITE SURE how he did it. Somehow Bob Harvey had persuaded the owners of the rights to Joe Cocker’s Up Where...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • The Nation Environment Debate with Amy Adams & Russel Norman
    Lisa Owen: Now, this week's campaign debate. As a handful of islands at the bottom of the world, New Zealand is an environmental treasure, and as Kiwis, we're proud of being clean and greenish. But putting that environment to work...
    Scoop politics | 23-08
  • The Nation: Debate Between Amy Adams And Russel Norman
    Lisa Owen Hosts an Environment Debate Between National’s Amy Adams And Russel Norman From the Green Party....
    Scoop politics | 23-08
  • Travel And Accommodation Determination for MPs Released
    The Remuneration Authority today released its determination covering Members of Parliament New Zealand accommodation, travel services for family members, and travel services for former Prime Ministers and their spouses....
    Scoop politics | 23-08
  • Te Kuiti man imprisoned for images of young children
    A Te Kuiti man caught with pictures of children being sexually abused has been sentenced to ten months imprisonment. Sickness beneficiary Daniel James Parry, 35, appeared for sentence in the Tauranga District Court today (Friday) after pleading guilty...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Japan Maritime Training Squadron visit – Open Day, Band
    • The Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force Training Squadron will make port in Auckland from Wednesday 3 September to Saturday 6 September...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • MP Perk Transparency Needed
    The Taxpayers’ Union is slamming the increase in taxpayer-funded entitlements for MPs and their families published on the legislation website this afternoon . Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Debating the future of Auckland’s housing
    With only weeks until the General Election, Auckland’s mounting housing crisis will be put under the spotlight in an Election Debate hosted by the School of Architecture and Planning at the University of Auckland. The debate’s topic “Market forces...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Let’s sort this out – Human Rights Commission
    A Whangarei woman allegedly censured for greeting customers with Kia ora can get in touch with the Human Rights Commission says Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy. “We really need to resolve these kinds of issues. I had thought that...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Aged Care Association welcomes Labour’s wages policy
    The New Zealand Aged Care Association welcomes the Labour Party’s announcement that if elected, it will raise the minimum wage for aged care workers within its first 100 days in Government....
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Honorary doctorate for Secretary-General of the UN
    An Honorary Doctor of Laws degree is to be bestowed on His Excellency Mr Ban Ki-moon, Secretary-General of the United Nations, by the University of Auckland on Wednesday 3 September, both in recognition of his role as an international statesman...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Surveillance of Mr Upul Jayasuriya
    The New Zealand Bar Association joins the International Bar Association (IBA) and other Law Societies and Bar Associations worldwide over the reported surveillance of Mr Upul Jayasuriya, President of the Bar Association of Sri Lanka....
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Bob Parker, China State Media and Tibet Forum
    Former Christchurch mayor was signed up to position statement without his knowledge; observed “happiness” in Tibet as Tibetan protesters elsewhere shot by security forces...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • “Walk the talk to reduce the wage gap”
    There’s just a few weeks left to convince the candidates of all political parties that reducing the wage gaps makes good sense....
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Digital Currency on the Drawing Board
    Government policies and digital currency ideas and issues will come together at three public workshops next week....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • NZ Cycle Trail welcomes $8 million fund
    Government funding of $8 million to maintain and enhance the Great Rides of New Zealand will help ensure the trails are delivering the best possible visitor experience, says Evan Freshwater, Manager Nga Haerenga The New Zealand Cycle Trail Inc. (NZCT)....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Judges Comments Bonkers – McVicar
    Napier Conservative Party Candidate Garth McVicar is accusing a Judge of forgetting that he is the gate-keeper for the community and not a benevolent caregiver for law breakers. "The comments by this Judge are not just alarming, they're completely...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Oxfam: World must suspend arms sales to protect civilians
    As the New Zealand Government prepares to ratify the global Arms Trade Treaty, and after ceasefire talks collapsed and violence erupted yet again in Gaza yesterday, Oxfam is calling on all states to immediately suspend transfers of arms or ammunition...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Degrees in Picking up Rubbish
    Responding to the Fairfax media report of a University of Otago survey of Wellington’s street-connected walkways, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Another Union row
    “ The teachers union the NZEA is getting ready for another industrial dispute. These disputes now only occur in the government sector. National has no one to blame but themselves” said ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Whyte: Speech to Grey Power
    National’s failure to increase the age for super and reform health is a threat to every New Zealander’s security....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Local Govt should not go into business
    “No one should take any comfort from the fact that “Infracon”, a roading company in Tararua and Central Hawke's Bay, is to go into liquidation. This puts the future of more than 200 jobs in doubt. ACT sympathises with those...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Join the hikoi to end child poverty in New Zealand
    CPAG is calling on people across society to join a march from Britomart to Aotea Square in Auckland to demand action on child poverty in Aotearoa....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Ngapuhi Chair Says Enough of the Political Sideshow
    Time for side-shows to end so we can focus on future of our nation – Raniera (Sonny) Tau, Chairman, Te Runanga A Iwi O Ngapuhi...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Commissioner of Police v Kim Dotcom And Ors
    An order is made extending the duration of the registration of the restraining orders issued by the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia on 10 and 25 January 2012 and registered in New Zealand on 18...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Labour Announcement on Future of Hillside Workshops Welcome
    Labour leader David Cunliffe’s announcement in Dunedin today that a government led by his party would re-open Hillside Railway workshops was welcomed by the Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU). ‘Since the workshops were shut down in late...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Primary teachers and principals vote to put kids first
    Teachers and principals have voted overwhelmingly against the Government’s controversial “Investing in Educational Success” policy, including proposed highly-paid principal and teacher roles....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Prime Time with Sean Plunkett: Educating for Success
    In all the turmoil stirred up by the "Dirty Politics" revelations, the real issues that the campaign should be about have been put to one side....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Dirty Politics – Number One Bestseller and Back in Stores
    An exposé of the hidden side of New Zealand politics, Nicky Hager's book, Dirty Politics , has been in hot demand since its release last Wednesday....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Epsom: profiling NZ’s most controversial electorate
    Welcome to the wealthy inner Auckland electorate of Epsom: home of coat-tailing, the Tea Tapes, a convicted outgoing MP... and heavy newspaper and magazine readership....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Families Free From Violence campaign and website
    We are pleased to announce the launch of our Families Free From Violence campaign and our new Families Free From Violence website. This website has been created to encourage people to take responsibility for ending family violence by seeking help...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • PSA And DHBs Reach Settlement on Five Collective Agreements
    The 20 District Health Boards are pleased to reach settlement via mediation on five Multi Employer Collective Agreements (MECAs) with the Public Service Association for 12,000 mental and public health nurses, allied, public health and technical staff,...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Refusal to complete census results in 46 convictions
    Failing to fill out a census form has resulted in the convictions of 46 people, Statistics New Zealand said today....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Council Amalgamations Still Bad Deal
    Northland, Bay of Plenty, and Wellington ratepayers should not be seduced into accepting the amalgamation of their Councils by a recent amendment to legislation allowing for local boards not community boards, Chris Leitch, Democrats for Social Credit...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • DHB industrial action withdrawn
    The Public Service Association (PSA) has withdrawn notices of industrial action covering 12,000 health workers at District Health Boards (DHBs) across New Zealand, after progress was made in mediation....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Aged Care Pledge Needs Better Target, Says Care Agency
    Labour’s pledge to set up an aged care working group to address industry concerns is good to see, but appears to skirt the obvious issue of a looming lack of beds and carers for our rapidly growing elderly population, says...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Social inequality still rife in New Zealand
    Social inequality has worsened over the past decade in New Zealand, a new study from Victoria University of Wellington shows....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Working towards a living wage and more Māori in paid work
    The Māori Party will build on the gains it has already achieved in Government and accelerate job opportunities particularly for young Māori....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Deepwater Group Supports Changes to Catch Limits
    The Deepwater Group says the increase in the Total Allowable Commercial Catch for hoki shows the benefits of a long term commitment to build biomass in this major New Zealand fishery....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • ACT announces Ohariu candidate Sean Fitzpatrick
    “Our Ohariu candidate will be Sean Fitzpatrick. Sean has strong ties to the region and I’m glad to hear he will be doing his best to grow ACT’s party vote in the area,” says Dr Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • ACT announces Tauranga candidate Stuart Pederson
    “Our Tauranga candidate will be Stuart Pedersen. Stuart has strong ties to Tauranga and I’m glad he has agreed to do his best to grow ACT’s party vote in the electorate,” says Dr Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Green Party scores massive own goal
    Green Party scores massive own goal as their own policy auditor criticises their fiscal plan...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Green Party’s own Auditor of their Budget finds it dodgy
    “The Alternative Budget released by the Green's does not even stack up in the eyes of their chosen auditor – Infometrics” said ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • New shark finning laws fall short for threatened species
    Environmental groups are welcoming some aspects of a raft of law changes announced today in relation to shark finning, but say that overall the chance for New Zealand to catch up with international efforts in shark conservation is being missed....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Promoting Labour’s Positive Policies
    General Secretary of the New Zealand Labour Party, Tim Barnett, today launched Labour’s television advertisements for the 2014 election. The advertisements help tell Labour’s positive story for a better New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Drug Court: Rare Insight into New Alternative Justice Model
    Māori Television’s latest New Zealand documentary presents a fascinating look inside a new alternative justice model – through the stories of convicted criminals....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Political parties pledge to increase overseas aid
    A survey of political parties looking at how much New Zealand should spend on Official Development Assistance (ODA) shows the overwhelming majority of parties are committed to raising the bar according to the Council for International Development (CID)....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Top Kiwis backing Tip the Scales campaign
    Sir Graham Henry, former All Black Kees Meeuws, singer-song writer Jamie McDell and fishing guru Matt Watson have pledged their support to Tip the Scales, a pre-election campaign generating public support for rebuilding New Zealand’s depleted inshore...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Maritime Union continues to press over dirty politics
    Maritime Union National President Garry Parsloe says Ports of Auckland management is trying to get off the hook from its involvement with extreme right wing bloggers during the Ports of Auckland dispute....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • No end in sight to overwhelming human cost of conflict
    Two ceasefires have brought some respite to civilians in Gaza and southern Israel, amid hope that a durable cessation of hostilities might occur. In Gaza, these breaks in the fighting have barely given people enough time to seek medical care,...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Young Kiwi speakers to represent NZ at Gallipoli 2015
    The RSA is delighted at the announcement made by Veterans' Affairs Minister Michael Woodhouse today, that all eight regional finalists of the 2015 ANZ RSA Cyril Bassett VC Speech Competition will be included in a group of 25 Youth Ambassadors...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
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