But back to the Tobacco companies, there tactics were outrageous of course. Smoking does kill people. The risk factor for say lung cancer and smoking isnt a measley double or even fives times that of non smokers its way up in the thirties .
Meanwhile The British Met Office gives the likely hood of global warming ( yes , it is happening) being human caused is ‘almost certain’ . So lets be kind at put that at 0.99.
So we have smoking and lung cancer at 30+ risk factor and human caused global warming at 0.99.

As well UK Met have decided they cant be giving seasonal predictions as they arent sure of their accuracy so are sticking to monthly temperature forecasts. . Not sure how long they will stick to the monthly predictions but dont hold your breath

http://tumeke.blogspot.com/2009/12/scepticism-with-capital-k-manufacturing_07.html

… why don’t people know more about the Frank Luntz memo to the Republicans when it comes to climate denial?

Suggest you find a language (code) of your own. Like a buddy of mine did over at sciblogs the other day. Noah. So what did Noah make.? And more importantly for this kind of thing to happen, when did he make it.? The answer’s so very simple, and the metaphor made.

Metaphors make for refreshing pointedness on climate science’s serious plane..

Away from the individual level, can you imagine our governments imposing draconian, industrial level sanctions and penalties on the (mis)use of oil and its derivatives?

And destroy the economy? Nah, not happening and that’s also the reason why NACTMPs’ ETS rewards polluters rather than encouraging them to find other solutions/options.

Good luck in your struggles with the state of Gisborne…

Over the last few weeks he’s been processing GHCN raw data to repudiate Anthony Watts recent claim that ‘dropped stations’ have been selectively chosen to create a false warming trend. The analysis is interesting and really worth following…. False Claims. Others have replicated the results.

Watts response to date has been feeble and evasive. In the end Tamino has insisted on accountability. The deniers have gotten away with lies and obfuscation for far too long, and will keep doing so as long as they are allowed to get away with it cost-free.

Maybe it is worth exploring the relationship between government and tobacco and comparing and contrasting with oil and government.

Outside of the USA, I’d guess that tobacco money in the form of lobbying was way less effective in swaying governments than within the USA. Which might have left enough space for a political will to develop that led to advertising bans and eventually to the situations we have today with regards smoking bans etc.

But I don’t think, for obvious reasons, that there is the same space with regards oil and government.

Can you honestly imagine an environment where car adverts are banned?
Where petroleum products attract crippling levels of taxation simply in order to discourage consumption because consumption is understood to be deleterious?
Where research is undertaken to explore the links between petrol/diesel combustion and health problems like asthma and lung cancer?
Where ( dependent upon the results of such research) the burning of petroleum products is banned in public spaces?

Away from the individual level, can you imagine our governments imposing draconian, industrial level sanctions and penalties on the (mis)use of oil and its derivatives?

Not happening, is it? Not going to happen either. Not at a government level and definitely not through any voluntary or enlightened industry initiative.

Which leaves the ball in our park and just one question to be answered.

You playing?

When ‘you’ realised that CO2 emissions would wipe away seasons and lead to widespread extinctions and whatever else, ‘you’ didn’t decrease your CO2 emissions. ‘You’ kicked all the CO2 habits.
Oh, hang on… no ‘you’ didn’t.
So now the denial industry went into overdrive hoping more people would continue to act just like ‘you’.
And ‘you’ continued on.
After a number of decades, climatic and ecological fundamentals went to shit and no legislation had been passed….but then, everyone has to die some day so what the hey.

Personally I’m getting really interested in hauling some of the people from these lobby groups into a court for outright fraud. It was what eventually happened with the tobacco industry. It is what I think will eventually happen here as well. It would be preferable to deal with this type of self-interested lobbying in a legal manner than the possible alternatives.