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The drinking age

Written By: - Date published: 12:20 pm, August 30th, 2012 - 107 comments
Categories: alcohol - Tags:

As Bunji has said, the Government’s alcohol reforms miss the real issues – advertising, price, availability – and focuses on wowserism over teens drinking, instead. Guess cause I’m older now, the drinking age debate doesn’t get me going like it did last time round.

Reckon the Hospitality Association will be rubbing its hands at the split age suggestion.

I just don’t think there’s a growing problem with booze. Alcohol consumption is falling. 25 years ago, we consumed 140 litres of alcoholic beverages per person (including children!) per year. Today, that number is 105 litres.

107 comments on “The drinking age”

  1. King Kong 1

    Whilst this whole thing is a total waste of time when you look on other blogs and see fat middle aged preditors campaigning so hard for young girls to be able to get their hands on booze it really makes me think that maybe raising the age might not be a bad thing.

    • fnjckg 1.1

      learning KK

      sowing a whole lot of misery

      own testimony: Three X Seven followed by Seven to return

      alcohol abuse and dependence is a great sadness, and i see the darkness spread every day

  2. Lanthanide 2

    “I just don’t think there’s a growing problem with booze. Alcohol consumption is falling. 25 years ago, we consumed 140 litres of alcoholic beverages per person (including children!) per year. Today, that number is 105 litres.”

    Which is probably not surprising, with the population demographics and the baby boomer bulge getting older. Sure, lots of older people drink, but I’d suspect on average the amount drank per person goes down with age, for many different reasons.

    So you may actually find that in the age range 18-49, people are drinking more than they used to, while the average across the whole population is declining.

    • The drinking age should be increaed to 21 yrs, the way it used to be. Most under that age can’t drink responsibly, and smoke dope as well. The right age is probably 25 yrs, but society could never get away with that.

      Seriously though, it should be returned to 20 yrs, off-licences should be abolished and liquor outlets should be seperate from the rest of supermarkets – ideally we should return to the situation of the 1990′s and earlier. Unfortunately, many hotels have closed and replaced by neighbourhood bars which do not have bottlestores attached as hotels did. The liquor stores in shopping centres and other areas should also be closed down. They are all profit-orientated and have no interst in the local community.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        similar hotels and bottlestores would all reopen within a year of a law change. Better than having 10 year old kids walking past shelves of alcohol in the supermarket.

    • …I’d suspect on average the amount drank per person goes down with age, for many different reasons.

      Not necessarily. I’m 50 and drink a lot more now than I did 30 years ago, for one very obvious reason: I have a lot more money now than I did 30 years ago. However, I get pissed a lot less often now, so average annual consumption doesn’t say much about how likely I am to constitute a drunk-and-disorderly problem.

      The basic issue is that whether I’m getting pissed or not is none of the govt’s business, regardless of what adult age I am. The only thing that’s the govt’s business is whether I’m currently constituting a public disorder problem, for the resolution of which problem we have a perfectly adequate and functional police force.

      • fnjckg 2.2.1

        health disorder

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2

        The only thing that’s the govt’s business is whether I’m currently constituting a public disorder problem, for the resolution of which problem we have a perfectly adequate and functional police force.

        It’s cheaper if public disorder from drinking doesn’t happen but that’s a cultural change that needs to happen and there’s very little that the government can do about that.

      • Sunny 2.2.3

        Your drinking is of course entirely your business. However, so long as we have a public health system, the rest of us pay the costs associated with the cancers that are directly caused by contact with alcohol (mouth, throat, stomach, bladder, kidney and liver as well as prostate, colon and rectal). It seems that the leading cause of early onset blindness (macular degeneration) is down to regular consumption of alcohol too and anyone who gets ‘pissed’ regularly is staring down dementia. Good luck with all that, Psycho Milt. (Don’t think the cops will be much help)

        • Psycho Milt 2.2.3.1

          So long as we have a public health system we all pay all kinds of costs arising from people doing things that we might not choose to do ourselves. That’s because it’s a public health system and not an insurance-based one. If it really bugs you that your taxes are funding health care for people you feel haven’t taken enough care of themselves, join the libertarians and push for privatisation of the health system – private healthcare is very good at user pays.

          As to the health “threats” themselves, if you prefer to spend your time fretting over what might raise your risk of cancer a few percent and end up failing to actually live your life as a result, that’s your choice. It’s certainly not mine though.

      • jcuknz 2.2.4

        It is personal irresponsibly typical of the welfare state to say it is none of the governments responsibility to be concerned at a persons personal habits. We accept and want the welfare but are not willing to exercise responsibility in return.

        I drink much more in my old age than during my working life but this is because of health reasons and I have been told it is good for my health to have a drink on a daily basis …. a single drink that is.

  3. Plastic Tolstoy 3

    Are those amounts measured in ‘standard drinks’ so that differences in alcohol percentage are factored in? Or is it possible that, while the total volume of alcoholic beverages consumed in litres has declined, many of the beverages preferred today have a higher alcohol concentration, meaning people need to consume less in volume than before to have the same effect? Just a thought.

    • fatty 3.1

      yeah, good point…data on drinking seems difficult to find, which is surprising, considering that everywhere we turn people are saying that the youth have a drinking problem – evidence please.
      I had a quick flick though this, but its from 2008/2009 and the data is badly presented…ALAC should be ashamed at such a pathetic publication http://www.alac.org.nz/sites/default/files/research-publications/pdfs/Alcohol_Monitor_08-09.pdf

      The concept of a split age is laughable and shouldn’t be considered as anything more than a joke. This issue is being handled the same way capitalism is…tinker round the edges to look like MPs are fixing the problem – really, major changes need to happen

      • Plastic Tolstoy 3.1.1

        It seems most data about alcohol consumption (aside from sales) is gathered during those times when alcohol use becomes problematic to the point where police or health professionals need to be involved. Looking at the worst cases doesn’t provide an accurate picture of the overall drinking habits of New Zealanders, and surveys regarding alcohol use rely on people being totally honest about their habits so it’s impossible to tell the true level of consumption and abuse.

        If there is clear evidence to be found that it is mainly youth that have a drinking problem (as opposed to many NZers of all ages), instead of scapegoating them we should be looking at why they feel the need to get ‘smashed’ every weekend. I agree that major changes need to happen rather than the usual softly, softly tinkering, a good start would be radical advertising restrictions.

        • RedLogix 3.1.1.1

          we should be looking at why they feel the need to get ‘smashed’ every weekend.

          It’s no secret seeing as how alcohol is the drug that traditionally makes capitalism (or more precisely … grossly unequal societies) tolerable.

          • fnjckg 3.1.1.1.1

            Yes

          • Plastic Tolstoy 3.1.1.1.2

            No, it isn’t a secret to those of us who can understand that people resort to coping mechanisms, good or bad, when they are stressed. It will take the personal responsibility groupies a long time to get that message though.

            • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Plenty of the personal responsibility groupies in Parliament enjoy the occasional drink. Or eight.

        • SHG 3.1.1.2

          One might argue that NZ has never recovered from the introduction of 6 o’clock closing by the Reform-Liberal coalition government in 1917. Binge drinking became part of NZ (and Australian) culture and we’ve never shaken it off.

  4. This summary from Stats New Zealand shows that alcoholic beverages and pure alcohol available for consumption has dropped marginally over the past couple of years.

    Assuming no change in ‘uptake’ of what’s available, that suggests a pretty much steady-state consumption, at the population level, over the last couple of years.

    But take a look at the graph accompanying the summary. Over the 16 years 1996-2011, beer consumption has reduced, wine consumption increased a bit then stayed pretty constant, but … ‘spirits and spirit-based’ drinks have gone up steadily before stabilising.

    For a closer look, download the pdf of the report (and tables if you’re really keen) and you’ll notice (on page 4) that ‘spirit-based’ drinks have increased quite dramatically over the past 10-15 years while ‘spirits’ have been remarkably constant.

    ‘Spirit-based’ today basically means alcopops. That’s the kind of drink that is being consumed more as a proportion of overall consumption. It’s also the alcohol of choice for many younger people (and a lot higher alcohol content than what I used to drink as a teenager – beer).

    • And, of course, the government scrapped its plans to ban RTDs with more than 5% alcohol.

      • Plastic Tolstoy 4.1.1

        Ugh, those things are lethal, taste sickly sweet to make people think they’re drinking soft drink and then people don’t realise how much alcohol they’re actually consuming. Perhaps these are one of the main contributors to the apparent youth drinking problem?

        • tc 4.1.1.1

          They are a huge contributor, it’s the next step from coke/l&p/energy drinks which are far from healthy anyway.

          Easy to make, massive margins, usually created with a specific youth sector in mind, I mean do you see many middle aged + or folk with the money to choose buying them.

          Erceg (RIP) was known and loved by the industry for being able to produce an equivalent to any ‘name brand ‘ RTD within a few months, on the shelves, similar taste, lower price, much larger margin.

          Crack a woody then crack your skull passing out.

          • NickS 4.1.1.1.1

            Crack a woody then crack your skull passing out.

            lawl.

            Don’t forget the massive sugar high that adds to the later hangover beautifully either.

            • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Sugar and caffeine. The caffeine is good because although you may already be effectively passed out from alcohol poisoning, it stimulates enough muscle activity for you to keep repetitively lifting the bottle to your mouth.

        • rosy 4.1.1.2

          +1 These are the difference between the drinking culture now, and the drinking culture before. Also don’t forget you can get a $2 shot at the counter of the booze store as you leave. Kids used to have to save up enough for 6-pack to beg someone at the door to grab some alcohol for them… now they just need $2.

          And the Nacts have completely reneged on their duty to work for the best interests of the population by allowing the drinks companies self-regulation. This is a much bigger issue than the drinking age.

          • QoT 4.1.1.2.1

            don’t forget you can get a $2 shot at the counter of the booze store as you leave

            That’s still the “booze store” where you have to produce ID to show you’re 18, right?

            I’m frankly so over these pathetic “oh but they taste like lolly water and kids are stupid” arguments. When I was 15 (quite some time ago) I went to parties where other girls had saved up to go halves on fucking disgusting cheap bottles of red wine.

            We didn’t need candy colours to convince us to drink. We’d already figured out that drinking = fun, and choking down a shitty cabernet was the sacrifice we had to make for it, so that’s what we did.

            The problem is culture, not “dumb kids don’t realise RTDs from liquor stores have OMG alcohol in them.”

            • rosy 4.1.1.2.1.1

              It’s the 14 year-olds outside that are the problem. Kids drink, I get that – was one, have some… this is like dairies selling single cigarettes to kids, and I object to that too.

  5. fnjckg 5

    follow Doug Sellman

    • Herodotus 6.1

      Really I wonder on what basis you give your support ?
      Also what evidence have you found to support alcohol on a developing brain ?????
      Here are a couple of kinks to support my position on minimising harm
      http://www.pmcsa.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/Improving-the-Transition-report.pdf
      http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1127400726.html
      “Labour’s justice spokesman Charles Chauvel said claims that the drinking of under-20s were out of control was not borne out by the evidence and distracted from the “real problem”.” Nice to read that the real problem is not brain damage !!!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJek3KkqReM

      • fatty 6.1.1

        whats your position?
        when does a brain stop developing?

        • Herodotus 6.1.1.1

          Align the drinking age to be the same as entering a casino.
          http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Yourchildshealthandsafety/Youngpeopleandalcohol/DG_183848
          The effects of alcohol on young people are not the same as they are on adults. While alcohol misuse can present health risks and cause careless behaviour in all age groups, it is even more dangerous for young people. Find out how alcohol can affect young people’s health and behaviour.
          http://samafoundation.org/youth-substance-addiction/effects-of-drugs-on-adolescent-brain/
          http://www.mcaay.org.au/component/attachments/download/19.html
          And to answer your second question….. When one enters parliament. :-)

          • fatty 6.1.1.1.1

            “Find out how alcohol can affect young people’s health and behaviour.”

            I already know. It’s one of the more dangerous drugs out there, very dangerous.
            Regarding my second question, am I right in guessing that a brain finishes developing at 25? If so, how does this relate to R20 drinking?

            • Herodotus 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Who knows when it stops, a few years ago it was thought that most if not all the development finished late teens early 20′s. But it as you know has been taken to be later in the mid 20′s.
              At least all the effort placed by the booze industry was well spent.

              • fatty

                “At least all the effort placed by the booze industry was well spent.”

                True, but the booze industry doesn’t need to put in much effort does it?…plain packaging is being used on another drug that only really causes harm to the user. In contrast, many people beyond the user are vulnerable to alcohol.

          • Carol 6.1.1.1.2

            It’s not the drinking but how some are drinking.

            I think other measures can best deal with that.

            • Herodotus 6.1.1.1.2.1

              From this link you could infer that it “is” the drinking
              http://www.mcaay.org.au/component/attachments/download/19.html

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.2.2

              I think other measures can best deal with that.

              Well, we can lower the drinking age again once those other measures are in place and working.

              • QoT

                Sorry, CV, but to me that just sounds like “sorry, responsible young folk, but because older generations have created a stupid drinking culture and can’t themselves drink responsibly, thus setting you up to be binge-drinkers, we’re going to keep treating you like children (even though you can get married and die for your country at 18) until we have sorted our own shit out.”

              • Carol

                Some of those measures can be put in place relatively quickly. And putting the age up and down would just create confusions.

                http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7579040/No-age-rise-for-alcohol-sales

                Kaye said there had been a relative drop in alcohol consumption among 12 to 17 year olds of 40 percent in the last five years.

                There were effective measures in other parts of the Alcohol Reform Bill that would help reduce the access to alcohol of young people under the age of 18, Kaye said. Already, 92 percent of young people got their alcohol from people aged over 20.

                “You need to vote with your heads and vote for provisions that will make an actually difference in terms of supply,” Kaye urged MPs.

                Labour’s justice spokesman Charles Chauvel said claims that the drinking of under-20s were out of control was not borne out by the evidence and distracted from the “real problem”.

                “The issue is the culture, price, access and supervision all issues that need to be dealt with in the next phase of this debate,” Chauvel said.

                Green Party youth spokeswoman Holly Walker said there was an undoubted unhealthy drinking culture in New Zealand.

                “We need to change this culture but raising the purchase age will not achieve that change,” Walker said.

                Changing the culture is more difficult. But it seems to me binge drinking at various ages – not just teens – has increased since the escalation of consumer culture in the 80s -’you are what you consume”.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Sure, I accept that the protections could be put in place relatively quickly. They’re just not going to be.

            • NickS 6.1.1.1.2.3

              It’s not the drinking but how some are drinking.

              This+1

              So simple, yet so hard to get. Especially when you can attack the younger generations.

  6. Tim G 7

    What a stupid measure! Litres of alcoholic beverages? Talk about missing the point given that:

    a) The average strength of beer has increased significantly; and
    b) The popularity of beer has declined relative to high-strength RTDs, wine (complete wine revolution in the last 25 years and it is orders of magnitude higher in alcohol than beer) and spirits.

    What a daft post.

    EDIT: Now see that this point has been made above, and more eloquently/better supported by evidence. It is hard to get through 25 comments when tickled by the forces of righteous indignation.

    • SHG 7.1

      complete wine revolution in the last 25 years and it is orders of magnitude higher in alcohol than beer

      Beer, let’s say 4.5% alcohol. So you’re saying that wine is at least 45% alcohol now?

      Wow.

      • Tim G 7.1.1

        Beer, let’s say 4.5% alcohol. So you’re saying that wine is at least 45% alcohol now?

        Nope, but as you are probably aware, alcohol by volume isn’t linear in terms of either its actual ethanol content or its effects on the brain. That is, 2 x 500ml glasses of 4.5% beer does not equal the alcohol content of 1 x 500ml glass of 9% beer.

        I am not a mathemetician but I am a practising alcoholic, and this was once explained to me by someone who was.

  7. QoT 8

    Reckon the Hospitality Association will be rubbing its hands at the split age suggestion.

    In complete honesty, this is the only reason I can actually comprehend for suggesting a split age: get 18-year-olds used to paying exorbitant bar prices for booze before we give them access to the blessings of a $30 40-oz.

  8. xtasy 9

    The alcohol and other drug issue in NZ is not a question of too low an age for drinking, of too low prices and all other excuses or arguments delivered, it is simply a result of a failed society, of a society that has failed in its roots, to develop, nurture and maintain any “culture” and “sense of being” beyond of basic material survival, commercial interest, consumerism and the below any sense level applied to the general pupulace to “belong”, apart from doing just that by boozing, drugging, watching rugby and so forth.

    Once people may be facing a real opportunity to do something else but get “smashed” on evenings and/or weekends, once the societal forces may offer something else that may actually be “stimulating”, “enlightening” and “enticing”, that involves more than “rugby, racing and beer”, that involves more than moronic pressures to do any crap job to survive, that involves the continued dumbing down of media and other information sources, that just continues to “dictate”, to “lecture”, to “divide”, to “marginalise”, to treat people with contempt, then we may have a see change.

    I see NO such change, and I welcome that the age of allowed alcohol consumption remains as it has been at 18, because age alone will do nothing at all to change behaviour. Perhaps some drunks in Parliament, in the higher business circles, who also are happy to get their staff drunk to keep them “motivated”, they may first change their bloody self righteous behaviour, before they try to blame all the problems and responsibilities on the younger ones.

    Good riddance, have a good, enjoyable beer or wine and cheer the result of tonight, dear folk, just do not go crazy. We have enough crazies that are so without additional substance contribution.

    Listening to Dr Sellman tonight on Campbell Live, it was all a conspiracy, so MPs wer ebought off by the alcohol industry? Doubt it, to be honest. Just more PC dictatorship! Had the gutsful of this crap!

    • millsy 9.1

      Sex sounds alright to me — prefer to feel a woman’s (you know what) than a beer bottle — they taste nicer too. . :-)

      Seriously, putting the age back up was a naive and stupid idea. Wouldnt solve a thing. Just lead to our courts being clogged up :-(

      The moral panic around booze seems to be about snobbery more than anything else – if youre not white, over 45, male and earning over $45000 per annum, then you cannot handle your booze and need it taken off you.

      It’s better to provide a safe environment for people to drink in than anything else, which will require a greater investment spread. This can include:

      Better lighting in public places
      A more visible police presence
      Perhaps cheap/free public transport so people can get home safer
      Volunteers dishing out tea and coffee and running alcohol free ‘chill out’ rooms where people can go and wind down and maybe sober up.

  9. Blue 10

    I’m disgusted that MPs have voted to keep it 18. How irresponsible can you get.

    Yes, drinking alcohol can be fun, and every teenager in the country would scream at the top of their lungs about their ‘rights’ if the age was raised, blah blah blah.

    But the people who have to deal with the consequences of this policy – health workers and law enforcement officials – want the age raised.

    It’s a no brainer – when the drinking age is 18, plenty of kids turn 18 in their last year of high school, meaning they can now supply booze to younger siblings, friends and partygoers.

    Raising the age to 20 means kids will have left high school when they are legally allowed to purchase alcohol, and be in uni, tech or work and part of a different social crowd.

    I was okay with the split age, because it allows 18 years olds to have a social life but takes away the mechanism to spread the booze to younger people. It was a good idea, and shame on our gutless MPs for voting it down.

  10. xtasy 11

    I am disgusted with the primitive mentality in NZ. Grow bloody up! You cannot handle the grog at 18, well yo9u will never grow up. will ya. It is a totally dumb nanny state this, coming from left and right wing idiots. I never have seen such dumb, idiot comments about alcohol, drugs and so forth, anywhere, on any blog all over the world. Are you people here for real? Are you living in this century? Are you even entrusting your kids to grow up? You ar elosers, total losers, not able to even get your own life in order, so you must dictate to others. What a fucked up country this is, and in Whanganui they create witch hunt about a 65 year old, bizarre, sick person, who is shit scared to be released from prison, because people want to hang, shoot, poison, are any way trespassing him (in breach of law) and go on like Neandertal people. NZ is a FUCKED SOCIETY TO ME!

  11. mike e 12

    idiots ranting and trying to bully people into submission with an illogical arguments mean you can include your self in your cohort.
    Preventative detention should be in place for Wilson and there wouldn’t be any complaints or you could invite him to live with your family .

    • xtasy 12.1

      mike e: Sorry I miss your link! Wilson already labelled “the beast” or ” the beast of Blenheim”, he has been already punished by his story and face being transmitted all over the media and more! So what is the issue to have him live in a strictly controlled area? I think it stinks how people in Whanganui react. By the way, I have NO problem living him in a flat next to me! I have learned tough life, met low life, been close to suicide and worse before myself, not at all resembling any criminal issues, but I know what this situation involves. It is irresponsible to stigmatise, lock out and make all worse, it is idiotic, but that seems to be the common approach in NZ. Immaturity, hate, isolation and so on, it is very, very unhealty. If I was Wilson, I would TAKE MY LIFE NOW! There is NO FORGIVENESS IN NZ!

      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1

        He remains a heightened risk that is of no doubt, but people forget that he has served the time and the penalties required of him by our society and our laws.

        Do we intend to go on punishing those who have paid their dues, forever.

    • Carol 12.2

      Chill. Chill. The beast or any sexual predator should be dealt with by the law. They do damage, especially to children. But they are not NZ’s main problem. All the lynch mob, public venting of anger is the kind of media-led distraction, that I’m sure the NAct’s are loving.

      I started to talk about the dire situation of poverty etc to a colleague recently. This colleague then spent most of the rest of the conversation venting about sexual predators and the damage they do to children, and didn’t seem that interested in issues of poverty or income/wealth inequalities.

  12. mike e 13

    Wilson is his own worst enemy by not doing any rehabilitation and still blaming the victims and denying he has a problem get real if he had done rehab admitted his crimes i would have no problem with him .

  13. mike e 14

    didn’t Wilson alcohol to stupefy women and children.
    I rest my case,

  14. Colonial Viper 15

    To all you old people supporting the drinking age staying at 18, just remember you are paying for it all, and you are all going to keep on paying for it. In more ways than financial.

    • Balanced View 15.1

      I really don’t see any change in “cost” between a drinking age of 18 vs 20 – therefore I’m happy with the status quo

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        There are approximately 90,000 18 year olds and 19 year olds in NZ. There is plenty of cost and injury there.

        So what do you base your observation off. If anything.

        • Balanced View 15.1.1.1

          I guess you’re assuming that changing the age will ensure alcohol doesn’t get into their hands.
          This is incorrect.

  15. Jenny 16

    With the conscience vote in parliament to leave the drinking age at 18 reason has prevailed in parliament today.

    ;Before the vote was listening to the “Hospitality Association” spokesperson speaking on National Radio, saying that they supported the raising of the age and splitting it, (funny that, same as Key).

    He then went on to say that being drunk in public should be made a crime.

    This exposes the self interest and punitive response favoured by the booze barons who are pandered to supported by the conservative law’n order lobbyists.

    This lobby appose any regulation of the liquor industry that might infringe their huge profits, instead concentrate on calls to criminalise the victims.

    If they got their way, what would be the result?

    As in most crime stats, under-age drinking laws would be applied much more savagely and aggressively to lower socio-economic working class youth. Resulting in proportionately more young Maori and Island youth in particular being arrested and hauled before courts and receiving fines and criminal convictions.

    The vote in parliament to retain the drinking age at 18 must be seen as defeat for the punitive lobby that hypocritically shield the booze barons while seeking a crack down on young people.

    With this break out of sanity in parliament, now maybe we can move onto some decent legislation to regulate the pushers. Of course this would mean combating MPs the likes of Judith Collins who act as a corrupt shills for the liquor industry in our parliament.

  16. vto 17

    Welcome back to the Victorian age where thou shall all follow the rules and prudent guidelines set down by your elders and superiors. Thou shall attend Church on Sundays, thou shall not wear hems above the ankle, thou shall not imbibe the devils drink.

    Fucking wowsers. Fuck off. Live your own life and leave people alone. Hypocrites Nosybodies. School teachers. Wowsers. Victorian oppressors. Wankers and tosspots. Judgmental, self-righteous pricks. Piss off.

  17. fnjckg 18

    ‘self”-many
    politics of identity-politics of lifesyle, oh, where will it end————-

  18. fnjckg 19

    master full

  19. fnjckg 20

    nothing new under the sun. Eccl. (off to real garden now) :)

  20. Treetop 21

    I am not impressed with the drinking age remaining at 18 for three main reasons.

    1. Being at secondary school and being able to purchase and drink alcohol legally is a bad mix.
    2. Intoxicated people who wake me up every Thursday – Sunday going into the CBD would be reduced were the age raised to 20.
    3. The amount of pokie machines in a person’s face when they drink at a bar does encourages a person to gamble at a younger age.

    A hard line needs to be taken regarding liquor advertising, pricing and access. The fithly drunks need to clean up their vomit, urine and litter. Violence associated with alcohol requires public education and the allowable legal limit for driving when alcohol has been consumed needs to be lowered.

    When a person is drinking responsibly they are not a problem, e.g. they do not end up at the hospital ED.

    • SHG 21.1

      When a person is drinking responsibly they are not a problem

      So you don’t have a problem with the purchase age, you have a problem with drunken behaviour.

      That’s not something that can be fixed with an Act of Parliament.

      • Treetop 21.1.1

        Usually an 18 year old has less life experience than a 20 year old, this is also why I wanted the age raised to 20.

    • vto 21.2

      Well what you need to do Mr Treetop is to take those issues up with those people who drink and cause that disturbance, but don’t take it out on people who drink and do not cause those disturbances.

      • Treetop 21.2.1

        From experience it is a one way conversation when you are sober and you are talking to a pissed person/s. Occasionally I open the front door and say “Do I yell in your ear when you are sleeping, you have a choice shut up or piss off.”

    • QoT 21.3

      Being at secondary school and being able to purchase and drink alcohol legally is a bad mix.

      Being able to vote, join the military and get married without being able to purchase alcohol, on the other hand, is just fucking insulting.

      • weka 21.3.1

        Not so sure about the QoT. I don’t see a lot of damage being done by 18 yr olds voting, joining the military or getting married. Alcohol on the otherhand…

        • QoT 21.3.1.1

          Right, so you’re happy to let someone die for our country or throw themselves into an unproven relationship or control the destiny of their country … but they can’t have a beer to celebrate any of those things. And this isn’t horribly patronising how?

          • weka 21.3.1.1.1

            Why not set the age for all those things at 16 (the age of sexual consent) and be done with it?

            “so you’re happy to let someone die for our country or throw themselves into an unproven relationship or control the destiny of their country”

            Sure, there are always examples of problems in all those areas. But on scale, drinking far outstrips those IMO.

            It’s likely that soon after the drinking age was lowered, rates of STDs and sexual assault increased.  I say likely because I remember A and E doctors talking about it, but no-one had done any research. Maybe they were wrong and it was merely a blip for other reasons, but which is more likely: that increasing access to alcohol to people who already have poor outcomes leads to worse outcomes or better or the same?

            When I was a teen and binge drinking, there was a direct, overwhelmingly obvious connection between access and how much we drank and how often. If the legal age had been 18 instead of 20, I would have been drinking much more at 15 than I was.

            Don’t get me wrong, I think the real solutions are somewhere else entirely, but I don’t see us doing anything sensible any time soon and in the meantime we can mitigate some of the damage. Or could have. Now that the age has been lowered, it is very difficult to change that back.

            • QoT 21.3.1.1.1.1

              Why not set the age for all those things at 16 (the age of sexual consent) and be done with it?

              Yes, why not? Then maybe we could have a firm line in the sand where people could say “right, you’re an adult now, here’s how that works.” Or even 18, I personally feel squeamish about sending 16-year-olds to die overseas.

              I say likely because I remember A and E doctors talking about it, but no-one had done any research.

              Yes, and our media surely wouldn’t have deliberately sought those anecdotes out! They’re so responsible about reporting on youth drinking, after all. And no one in the medical field could possibly suffer from confirmation bias.

              I don’t see us doing anything sensible any time soon and in the meantime we can mitigate some of the damage.

              Sorry weka, this just sounds patronising again. “Oh, sorry we’ve fucked up your cultural experiences, kids, we’re going to treat you like infants who can’t make your own decisions for your own good.”

              It is not the fault of 18-year-olds that we don’t have the guts or will to do something about our own attitudes.

        • QoT 21.3.1.2

          Also, I seriously want to see the “harm” being done by 18-year-old drinkers versus other age groups’ rates of drink-driving or committing assault after drinking. Just a hint, panic-mongering montage footage from TV3 which doesn’t even specify the participants’ ages doesn’t count.

          • McFlock 21.3.1.2.1

            we-ell they are well represented in the drink driving stats, even if you exclude the lower thresh-hold readings for some licence holders. And there’s a big peak in alcohol-related hospital admissions in the 18-22 age range (figure 92 page 169).
                   
            Personally I would look more to pricing, enforcement of current laws, community involvement in licence applications, and cutting the number of licences. But I’m not sure that age bumps would be entirely ineffectual, either.

            • QoT 21.3.1.2.1.1

              But I’m not sure that age bumps would be entirely ineffectual, either.

              In that case, why not 25? 30? 40? Men are pretty well-represented too, how about different age limits for men and women?

              Sure, age bumps will reduce the number of (responsible, law-abiding) young folk drinking. And then they’ll just hit 20 or 21 or whatever other arbitrary line we draw in the sand, they’ll still have our shitty NZ attitudes to alcohol, it will have been more of a forbidden fruit to them, and voila, suddenly we have a “peak” in the rates of hospital admissions for 22-25 year olds.

              Adults telling a group of people who are in all other ways treated as adults that they’re not smart enough to handle the lolly-water is dickish. That age group hasn’t magically fashioned binge-drinking out of whole cloth, they’ve learnt it from their parents and grandparents. They’ve seen it whenever someone suggests lowering the drinking age and old white farmers have a cry about not being able to get blotto at the pub then drive home and kill their mates on our state highways.

              They’ve seen it when ex-All Blacks wax lyrical about the days you could just leave the kids in the car while you went to have some beers, when Parliament has a Big Serious Think about raising the excise because “won’t someone think of the superannuitants who risked their lives for our country and won’t be able to afford sherry!!!”

              And then the very people who taught them drinking was fun, who treat getting pissed like it’s the only way to have a good time, suddenly say BUT NOT FOR YOU, STUPID KIDDIES. And then we wonder why they get off-their-faces smashed at the first opportunity.

              • McFlock

                The late teens are associated with a variety of  health conditions, e.g.  schizophrenia. But mostly, well, there’s a high dickish (sorry, “high risk behaviours”) quotient, too. It only lasts a few years, but the public health dude in me says it’s stupid to legitimise something that encourages dickish behaviour at a point in life just before the peak in natural background dickishness. Whatever. 
                         
                But on the other hand, a bigger gain would be from restricted advertising, enforcing access restrictions, working to change the drinking culture in society as a whole, and anything else that springs to mind.
                           
                All moot anyway – it’s staying at 18.

                You wanted some evidence of significant 18-20 representation in alcohol related harm. I suggest that it’s not completely imaginary.

        • Treetop 21.3.1.3

          + 1

      • Treetop 21.3.2

        For the last year people under the age of 20 have had to have a zero alcohol limit when driving.

        Being unable to purchase alcohol or drink in a bar if you are married, in the defence force or are a voter and you are 18 is different from being able to have a beer at a private function or in a home.

    • fatty 21.4

      “A hard line needs to be taken regarding liquor advertising, pricing and access. The fithly drunks need to clean up their vomit, urine and litter. Violence associated with alcohol requires public education and the allowable legal limit for driving when alcohol has been consumed needs to be lowered.”

      Good points…these are the reasons why it should be left at R18

  21. Fortran 22

    By keeping it at 18 stuffed Key and Collins’s positions. Can’t all be bad.

  22. Dv 23

    On an earlier news bulletin Key was quoted as the problem was kids loading up on CHEAP aclohol at home, then coming into town.

    The word cheap was dropped from latter reports.

    Interesting!!!

  23. shorts 24

    all alcohol is cheap when you’re a millionaire… its bloody expensive if you’ve no job, regardless of age

    our booze problem is a cultural thing

    in the young thats coupled with a no hope, no future, no jobs world

    is it any wonder the young, middle aged and old drink??

    give them hope… give them a chance to be the person they could be… allow the people to realise their dreams… and work on addressing the real problem – our attitudes to drink

    and stop blaming the young for all our problems… we built the world they are watching fall apart before their very eyes

    • SHG 24.1

      give them hope… give them a chance to be the person they could be… allow the people to realise their dreams…

      It’s a Friday, so right now I want a chance to be the person I could be, namely a guy with a drink in his hand.

  24. Tiger Mountain 25

    Jeez, not every young person regularly gets ‘slaughtered’ on liquor, and those that do have often been taught or supplied by experts, namely their parents and other adults. Good move leaving it at 18, young people have it hard enough with student loans, high unemployment, precarious employment and all the other tender mercies of our society without treating them as fuckwits to boot.

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      and all the other tender mercies of our society without treating them as fuckwits to boot.

      You need to visit a few student bars between 3am and 4am tomorrow morning.

      • Tiger Mountain 25.1.1

        Rather not thank you CV, the music might not be to my liking. I have had increasingly good experiences with young peoples socialising the last few years with a son just turning 21. The 60 kids all came to our beach residence and were in bed by 2am, us oldies then relaxed and thrashed it till dawn. The youngies have sober drivers and don’t think it is at all cool for people to get trolleyed.

        I did not grow up in Sunday school and am well aware that there are some revolting hard core munters out there but is a culture change really going to come from punishing a two year age band?

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.1.1

          framing the whole thing as “punishing” 18 and 19 year olds is definitively unhelpful. Are we similarly “punishing” 17 year olds by not allowing them to drink (or to vote)?

          The 60 kids all came to our beach residence and were in bed by 2am, us oldies then relaxed and thrashed it till dawn

          Of course, drinking under adult supervision at a residence has never been an issue.

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      • Te Reo Putake 26.1.1

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    Labour | 23-08
  • Labour irons out low income tax issue
    The increasing casualisation of work has led to many New Zealand families being disadvantaged through the tax they pay, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. "Many low paid workers are having to work two or three jobs to make ends meet...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Cornered Government comes out swinging
    The National Government is so desperate to keep its dead-in-the-water expert teachers policy alive, it has refused to rule out forcing schools to participate through legislation, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “John Key today attacked the Educational Institute for...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Pacific people continue to go backwards under National
    A report from Victoria University highlights the fact that Pacific people are continuing to go backwards under a National Government, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio.  “The report shows the largest inequality increases were in smoking, obesity, tertiary...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Wellington transport plan needs to keep moving
    The failure of the Transport Agency to properly look at alternatives to the Basin Reserve flyover is not a good reason for further delays to improving transport in Wellington, Labour MPs Grant Robertson and Annette King say. “The Board of...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Labour’s focus on inequality, kids and better job prospects
    Tackling child poverty and removing barriers to people working part time to enhance their prospects of moving into a fulltime job are highlights of Labour’s Social Development policy. Releasing the policy today, spokesperson Sue Moroney said while part-time work was...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Political staff should give answers under oath
    The Inspector General of Security and Intelligence should use her full statutory powers to question witnesses under oath about the leak of SIS information, says Labour MP Phil Goff. “Leakage of confidential information from the SIS for political purposes is...
    Labour | 21-08
  • High dollar, hands-off Govt sends workers to dole queue
    The loss of up to 100 jobs at Croxley stationery in Auckland is devastating news for their families and the local Avondale community, Labour’s Employment, Skills and Training spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The company’s inability to compete in international markets...
    Labour | 21-08
  • National’s flagship education policy dead in the water
    National’s plan to create executive principals and expert teachers is effectively dead in the water with news that 93 percent of primary teachers have no confidence in the scheme, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “The fact that teachers are...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Dunedin will be a knowledge and innovation centre under Labour
    Dunedin will become a knowledge and innovation centre under a Labour Government that will back local businesses, support technology initiatives and fund dynamic regional projects, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Nowhere has the National Government’s short-sightedness been more apparently than...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Inquiry into SIS disclosures the right decision
    Labour MP Phil Goff says the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has done the right thing by launching an inquiry into the disclosure of SIS documents about a meeting between himself and the agency’s former director-general. “This inquiry is necessary...
    Labour | 20-08
  • Labour – supporting and valuing carers and the cared for
    Placing real value on our elderly and the people who care for them will be a priority for a Labour Government, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. Releasing Labour’s Senior Citizens policy today David Cunliffe promised that a Labour Government would...
    Labour | 20-08
  • By Hoki! It’s Labour’s fisheries policy
    A Labour Government will protect the iconic Kiwi tradition of fishing by improving access to the coast, protecting the rights of recreational fishers and reviewing snapper restrictions, Labour’s Fisheries spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “Catching a fish from the rocks, beach...
    Labour | 20-08
  • Mighty River – Mighty Profits – Mighty hard to swallow
    Mighty River Power’s profit increase of 84 per cent is simply outrageous, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “Demand for electricity is flat or declining yet the company has made enormous profits. It is the latest power company to celebrate...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Collins’ actions were wrong, not unwise
    John Key’s moral compass remains off-kilter as he cannot bring himself to declare Judith Collins’ actions outright wrong, not simply ‘unwise’, said Labour MP Grant Robertson. “Under pressure John Key is finally shifting his stance but his failure to condemn...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Public servants behaving with more integrity than their masters
    The State Services Commission's new report on the integrity of our state services reflects the yawning gap between the behaviour of public servants and that of their political masters, Labour's State Services spokesperson Maryan Street says. “This report, which surveyed...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Phil Twyford Speech to NZCID
    "Labour's plan to build more and build better: how new approaches to housing, transport and urban development will deliver cities that work" Phil Twyford, Labour Party spokesperson on housing, transport, Auckland issues, and cities.  ...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Labour commits to independent Foreign Affairs and Trade
    “Labour is committed to New Zealand’s Foreign Affairs and Trade policy being independent and proactive, Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer says. “We are a small but respected country. Our voice and actions count in international affairs. Labour will take a...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Key must sack Collins over abhorrent actions
    The latest revelations that Judith Collins sent the contact details of a public servant to WhaleOil in a desperate attempt to divert media attention from a bad story is abhorrent, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “John Key and Judith Collins...
    Labour | 19-08
  • It’s downhill from here under National
    The forecast drop in exports and predicted halving of growth shows that it’s downhill from here with National, Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker says. “Growth under this Government peaked in June and halves to two per cent in coming years....
    Labour | 19-08
  • John Key loses moral compass over Collins
    John Key has lost his moral compass over Judith Collins’ involvement with Cameron Slater and lost touch with New Zealanders’ sense of right and wrong, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “Whoever is Prime Minister there are expectations they will not...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Mana Movement General Election 2014 List confirmed
    The MANA List is now confirmed with all the candidates as below (the numbers are the respective Internet MANA rankings). Candidate, Electorate, Internet MANA List Position Hone Harawira, Te Tai Tokerau (1) Annette Sykes, Waiariki (3) John Minto, Mt Roskill (4) Te Hamua Nikora, Ikaroa-Rawhiti...
    Mana | 18-08
  • PREFU likely to confirm dropping exports
    National’s economic management will be put under the spotlight in tomorrow’s PREFU given clear signs the so-called rock star economy has fallen off the stage, with plummeting prices for raw commodity exports, Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker says. “Under National,...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Record profits while Kiwis face a cold winter
    The record profits by two of New Zealand’s largest electricity companies will be a bitter pill for New Zealand households who are paying record amounts for their power, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “No doubt the Key government will...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time for John Key to answer yes or no questions
    John Key’s train-wreck interview on Morning Report shows he is no longer capable of a simple yes or no answer and has lost touch with what’s right and wrong, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “John Key has become so media...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Key must clarify who signed out SIS OIA
    Yet again John Key is proving incapable of answering a simple question on an extremely important issue – this time who signed off Cameron Slater’s fast-tracked SIS OIA request on Phil Goff, said Labour MP Grant Robertson. “John Key’s claim...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time to invest in our tertiary education system
    A Labour Government will fully review the student support system – including allowances, loans, accommodation support and scholarships – with a view to increasing access and making the system fair, transparent and sustainable, Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Maryan Street says....
    Labour | 17-08
  • Labour will facilitate regional Māori economic development agencies
    The next Labour Government will facilitate the creation of regional Māori economic development groups lead by iwi and hapū to work in partnership with business and public agencies as part of its Māori Development policy. “Labour is committed to working towards...
    Labour | 16-08
  • PRIME MINISTER’S DENIAL AT ODDS WITH NATIONAL PARTY STATEMENT
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has today released an email from the General Manager of the National Party that directly contradicts recent statements from the Prime Minister in relation to the 2011 breaches of Labour Party website databases. In his stand-up...
    Labour | 16-08
  • LIVE STREAM: The Green Room Leader’s Debate from 6:30pm
    The Green Room will be hosted by media commentator Russel Brown, and will feature Green Co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman responding to the debate live, along with comment from thought leaders and commentators. ‘The Green Room’ 6pm – 8.30pm...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • How many taxpayer funded staff does John Key need to prepare for a Leaders ...
    John Key is currently at the Auckland Stamford Plaza with 40 staff, 4 undercover police cars and an entire floor booked out in preparation for tonights Leader’s debate. Isn’t 40 staff including coms, flown up to Auckland for a debate...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • A brief word on National Party Rodney MP, Mark Mitchell
    MP considers legal action against Nicky HagerThe National MP says he is considering taking a defamation case after the September 20 election.“Someone needs to be held accountable,” he said. Oh really champ? Brothers and sisters, there is a long way...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Greens advertise on Whaleoil – but not on The Daily Blog?
    PaknSave have shown ethical compass and blocked adverts on Whaleoil, yet the Greens are advertising on Whaleoil, and not The Daily Blog? I would imagine there are far more potential Green voters on The Daily Blog then ever are on...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • It’s about the stupid economy stupid
    In focus group meetings, the sleepy hobbits of NZ by a staggering amount all believe that National are better economic stewards of the country than Labour, that’s why, instead of answering questions about blackmailing MPs, trawling brothels for dirt on...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Labour Policy vs National Policy
    John Key’s favourite defence spin at the moment is people want to talk about policy and not hear answers on the ethics of trawling brothels, why Slater was given SIS information, blackmailing MPs into standing down, rigging candidate elections and hacking...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • The Green Room live streamed on TDB 6.30pm tonight for First Leaders debate
    The ‘Green Room’ will stream 6.pm tonight on The Daily Blog during the TV One leaders’ debate.Use #GreenRoomNZ to join in. The Green Room will be hosted by media commentator Russel Brown, and will feature Green Co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman responding...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Manukau East – the next Coalition in action
    A couple of weeks ago I had the pleasure of opening Voice Up – a youth forum run by young people in Otara. I had been asked as Chair of the Local Board to set the scene, encouraging young people...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – The Big Bang Theory
    It’s a shame that it took a brain injury for me to start seeing things with such startling clarity. The realisation that lawyering, fishing, parenting, selling cars and racing yachts had common themes was stunning. Not perhaps as stunning as...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, how much Key aro...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • 5AA Australia – New Zealand’s Dirty Politics Aftermath and Polls
    MIL OSI – Source: Selwyn Manning – Analysis Headline: 5AA Australia – New Zealand’s Dirty Politics Aftermath and Polls 5AA Australia: On this week’s Across the Ditch bulletin on 5AA Australia, host Peter Godfery and Selwyn Manning discuss the aftermath...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • La’o Hamutuk calls for inquiry into Timor GAP ‘mismanagement’ of oil ...
    The Suai project on the South Coast … “liberated” land but confused communities.Photo: La’o Hamutuk David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific. AN INDEPENDENT Timor-Leste development and social justice agency has called for an inquiry into the Timor GAP corporation...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • What Is Nicky Hager?
    WHAT WILL HISTORY MAKE of Nicky Hager? That slight, perpetually boyish, journalist who descends periodically, like the admonishing angel in a medieval mystery play, to trouble our consciences and wreak merry havoc with the orderly conduct of our political affairs....
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Can anyone in msm explain how after Dirty Politics that they all got played...
    Would you not think, that after reading Dirty Politics, that our mainstream media wouldn’t allow themselves to get tricked and played again by the VERY SAME discredited pundits? The best new feature on Radio NZ is their ‘Blog Watch’ and their...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Crusher Collins caught out lying about Privacy Commissioner – is this her...
    Crusher angry. Crusher smash own career. Crusher more angry. You would think that after getting outed as such a nasty, vicious piece of work in Dirty Politics, that Crusher would be scrambling to dial back the lies and manipulations. Apparently...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Cunliffe vs Key – first leaders debate
    This is your election ‘moderator’ – just one more reason an incoming Government need to sack everyone at TVNZ and reform it into an actual public broadcaster. The first leaders debate happens this Thursday, 7pm on TV One. I have...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – An Old and Honourable Profession
      When Dirty Politics started to reference an ex-prostitute I began to get antsy. My first response was “come on Nicky, we decriminalised in 2003. Its sex worker.” My second response was “Ah oh. Who was it and did they...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Bought and paid for: the dirty politics of climate denial
    Has climate denial in New Zealand been bought and paid for by corporate interests? We already know that the ACT Party’s routine denial is closely linked to the financial support the party receives from wealthy free market fundamentalist Alan Gibbs,...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • If the msm read The Daily Blog, THIS wouldn’t be a surprise – explainin...
    Yawn. How embarrassing for Hamish Rutherford and Andrea Vance, their breathless article today suggests that the idea of Labour and NZ First cutting a  deal over the buy back of assets  is some how new news. Silly mainstream media  journalists. If...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • How much tax does John Key pay compared to a minimum wage worker??
    Yesterday I did some calculations to find out what tax John Key pays compared to a worker on the minimum wage. And I put out this media release for the Mana Movement: MANA Movement Economic Justice spokesperson John Minto is...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Hip hop death threats – the selective outrage of our media
    PM death threat in hip hop songAn Auckland hip-hop crew slammed for releasing a song with lyrics that apparently include a threat to kill Prime Minister John Key are urging young people to enrol to vote. Kill The PM, by...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Watch Slater turn into Key right before your eyes
    Watch Slater turn into Key right before your eyes...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • I don’t always agree with Patrick Gower – but he didn’t deserve this!
    I don’t always agree with Patrick Gower – but he didn’t deserve this weird spear tackle from behind by his own company. I was listening to this interview at the time, and the awkwardness of it must be the worst...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Is it weird Radio NZ ban me yet still have….
    Is it weird Radio NZ ban me for life because I criticised the Prime Minister yet still have Matthew Hooton, David Farrar and Jordan Williams, 3 of the main protagonists revealed in Dirty Politics as part of their ongoing political...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Christchurch GCSB meeting – why mass surveillance matters in 2014
    This is the video for last weeks GCSB meeting in Christchurch. Don’t forget Nicky Hager’s public meeting Wednesday night in Auckland, TDB will live stream the event in the interests of our democracy. Broadcast starts 7.30pm here on TDB....
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Assange, Greenwald to appear at Town Hall meeting? + KDC is not the hacker ...
    Wikileaks founder and the engineer of revealing some of the largest abuses of power in the modern era, Julian Assange, is rumoured to be appearing at the September 15th Town Hall meeting. Assange would join award winning investigative journalist Glen...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Why Paula Bennett will be the next leader and Hooton throws the Prime Minis...
    I don’t think the public have any idea of the behind the scenes meltdown now occurring within National. There are plenty of decent right wingers who all have ethical standards who have looked at what their leaders have been doing and...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – That Awkward Feeling When Your Campaign Goe...
    Urgh. It’s a thankless and nearly impossible task politically firefighting some days. Somebody (who isn’t you, but who’s in your care, or whom you’ve got a close professional relationship with) does or says something stupid; somebody from the Media’s there...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Joe Trinder – Dirty politics goes viral
    Join the latest social networking craze this election that every Dog Cat and Jabba is putting on their facebook pages.     Joe Trinder – Ngāti Awa Born and born in Ōtepoti Ōtākou, Ex RNZN he is an Information Technology...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Blogwatch: An open letter to David Farrar: Please, be that guy
    Dear David, In light of  Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics, you wrote a blog entitled ‘Some changes on Kiwiblog’ and you suggested it was time to tighten up ship on your website, saying “I want to improve trust in myself,...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • What The Hell Was That! Reflections on the media’s coverage of the Intern...
    WHAT, EXACTLY, DO WE KNOW about the confrontation outside Internet-Mana’s campaign launch? Well, we know the news media was there in force. We also know Internet-Mana’s media person, Pam Corkery, blew her stack. We know that Corkery’s outburst led the...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • NZ First candidate – homophobic, bennie bashing anti-intellectual clown
    Oh God, apart from Ron Mark, Tracey Martin, Curwen Rolinson and Winston before midday, the woeful cavalcade of political circus freaks NZ First seem to attract has picked up another hitchhiker. This time Epsom candidate Cliff Lyon who said this about Labour… “If...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Nicky Hager Public Meeting LIVESTREAM on The Daily Blog 7.30pm Wednesday 27...
    As part of our commitment to the 2014 Election debate, The Daily Blog will Livestream the Nicky Hager public meeting in Auckland, 7.30pm live from the Mt Eden War Memorial this Wednesday on this site. Doors open at 7pm. It...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Opening Night. It’s like an opera!
    On Saturday night just gone, we collectively experienced one of the premier panegyrys of political pageantry in our three yearly electoral cycle. For one glorious weekend evening every three years, it’s not the All Blacks or some Super 14 team, or...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, Unions – what ...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Timor-Leste’s Parliament handed ‘humiliating’ defeat over harsh media...
    East Timorese journalists raise their hands to approve the Timor-Leste JournalistCode of Ethics in October 2013. Photo: Tempo Semanal/Cafe Pacific   David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific. PACIFIC SCOOP reported this week that East Timor’s Appeal Court had scrapped...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • THIS is why we need a public broadcaster!
    The richest 20% of us in NZ own 70% of the wealth, with 18% in the hands of the second richest quintile, and 10% in the hands of the middle quintile. Just 2 per cent was owned by people in...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • A vote for Key is a vote for this
    A vote for Key is a vote for this...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Why the Secret Intelligence Service feeding Cameron Slater information is s...
    Folks, it doesn’t matter if you are Right or Left, the issue of the Secret Intelligence Service being forced to feed a far right hate speech merchant like Cameron Slater with sensitive information is an ‘us’ issue. The SIS are...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • How lost and irrelevant are ACT?
    So ACT had it’s ‘launch’. Well, what passes as an ACT launch these days. Lot’s of anorak’s with that 1000 yard star and dreams of a Milton Friedman Free Market dancing behind their eyelids all crammed into a room small...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • National Party rowing advert aimed at Gen Xers
    Unkind wags such as myself would suggest that if the above were a real representation of National, it would look more like this…   National know they have the rural mob and the angry provincial vote locked in, with their...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • National Housing propaganda – McGehan Close Revisited
    .   . Housing has become a major, defining issue in New Zealand. We have critical shortages and escalating prices in  in the main centres and falling house values in the regions. The National government has addressed the supply &...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • The boldest, most creative and dynamic policy on employment for two generat...
    If you watched TV news last night you could be forgiven for thinking that a circus was on when Internet MANA launched its election campaign today. The reporting was abysmal but I won’t rehash it here because it’s been described...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Call for Aaron Bhatnagar’s resignation from govt body
    .   . One of the many sordid “bit”-players in Nicky Hager’s book, “Dirty Politics“, and one of Cameron Slater’s inner-cabal, is businessman, National Party card-carrying cadre,  and former city councillor, Aaron Bhatnagar; . . In 2008, Bhatnagar was caught...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Internet MANA announce free tertiary education & full employment – me...
    Internet MANA launch their campaign after an extraordinary road tour and after gaining 4% in the Colmar Brunton Poll, today should have been the start point for a momentous occasion  in progressive political history. It was, but sadly most won’t...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Privilege denies true representation of disability rights
    The human right of people with disabilities in New Zealand has come back into the spotlight by the Human Rights Commission. The report named ‘Making Disability Rights Real’ highlights some of the main issues as being adequate data collection, accessibility,...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • Election TV campaign ads – Opening Night
    . .The infamous National Party ‘Dancing Cossacks’ Attack advert  NZ, 23 August -  The election campaign “kicked off” on Saturday evening, with a one hour “televisual feast”. Party advertisements were broadcast for National, Labour, Greens, NZ First, United Future/Peter Dunne,...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • Blogging vs Journalism vs Politics – The 7 latest revolting revelations
    So we now enter the most dangerous phase for National, the phase where the minutia of detail is so great now, the media have all the ammunition to keep asking questions that clearly show Key isn’t being honest in his...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • A positive story of political co-operation!
    .   . Wellington, NZ, 23 August - The following is a true story and shows how the natural inclination of the rank-and-file of our main left-wing parties is to work together… I’ve been in contact with both the Green...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • “Dirty Politics” – the fall-out continues…
    . . As the shock-wave from Nicky Hager’s book, “Dirty Politics” continues to engulf everything in it’s path, it’s worthwhile looking at the damage caused by the ever-expanding fallout… Fallout Dispersal Zone: 1oom Farrar wrote on 19 August  (and later...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • Labour’s environment policy welcomed
    The independent conservation organisation Forest & Bird says that overall the Labour Party’s newly released environment policy would go a long way towards protecting New Zealand’s natural heritage....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • National: Not our Future Marches across New Zealand
    Three weeks before the election, action is being taken across the country voicing a rejection of the National Government's track record and direction. Rallies are being held in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin to oppose National's...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Tune in to tonight’s debate from 7pm
    The countdown is on! You can watch the first leader’s debate for 2014 tonight, 7pm, on TV One ....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Gamblefree Day 1 September
    It's Gamblefree Day this Monday 1 September, the national awareness day for problem gambling in New Zealand. While traditionally celebrated on the first day of September, many events and activities are held both before and after this day to raise...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Success through captioning should be a given as a Right
    Success through captioning should be a given as a Right per the Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Alcohol Marketing Committee Questions Government’s Motives
    An Independent Expert Committee on Alcohol Advertising and Sponsorship (IECAAS) has been formed out of concern amongst alcohol and public health researchers about the government’s Ministerial Forum on Alcohol Advertising and Sponsorship (MFAAS)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • How Much Higher Can Auckland Prices Go?
    National's plan to liberalise the use of Kiwisaver funds and its proposal to raise ts cheap "Welcome Home" loan thresholds to help buyers purchase a new home has been welcomed by home building companies but attacked as a "welfare scheme...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • OPC submission period extended
    We have extended the submission period for the modified reassessment of a bee control affecting five organophosphate and carbamate insecticides (APP202142)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Vinay Deobhakta struck off roll of barristers and solicitors
    The New Zealand Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal has ordered former Tauranga lawyer Vinay Deobhakta to be struck off the roll of barristers and solicitors....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Major parties to front up for Climate Voter election debate
    New Zealand’s main political parties will take part in ‘The Great Climate Voter Debate’ on September 3....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Family violence… too big to be ignored
    As Annah Stretton gears up for her New Zealand Fashion Week show on Thursday she is utilizing her spotlight to help change the face of family violence in this country saying “the problem is far too big to ignore”....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Candidate’s SOS to northern Maori voters: Save our seats!
    (Extract from address by Rev Te Hira Paenga to Kura Hourua Maori Political Leaders hui, in Whangarei this evening)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Mary O’Neill to Stand for the Alliance in Napier
    The Alliance Party has confirmed Mary O’Neill as the Alliance candidate in the Napier Electorate for the 2014 election....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • TONIGHT [28/8/14]: The Great Political Comedy Debate
    It's a night for debating. You could stay home frowning at tonight's Leaders debate, or laugh it up with us at BATS!...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Cunliffe against personal responsibility over billboards
    The accusation by David Cunliffe that the Conservative Party is subscribing to a surveillance society by protecting its billboards via the use of motion sensor cameras reveals an anti-personal responsibility position by the about-to-be-retired Leader...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Groundbreaking health and climate conference
    The World Health Organization (WHO) is holding its first conference on climate change and health at its headquarters in Geneva this week, with New Zealand health experts in attendance....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Te Tai Tokerau Party
    Last night at the Leadership Academy of Company A debate Clinton Dearlove announced the creation of a new political party supported by Whanau and Hapu....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Significant fallout from Dirty Politics allegations
    Dirty politics ... costing National up to 3.8% of its pre-publication support Large numbers of New Zealanders are aware of and talking about the issues raised as a result of the publication of Nicky Hager’s book, Dirty Politics, according to...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Colin Craig is “deluded and dangerous” – Act
    “Colin Craig is proposing a radical transformation of our constitution. The Conservatives are proposing to overthrow of one hundred and fifty odd years of parliamentary democracy and replace it with binding referenda” said ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • WoF law will evict the poor and students from their houses
    The Green warrant of fitness law will evict the poor and students from their houses, if they’re lucky enough to find a place to rent in the first place...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Police response to IPCA report on ‘out of control’ parties
    Police accept today's Independent Police Conduct Authority report recommendations regarding the handling of 'out of control' parties and has already improved its policies and practices for managing these complex and sometimes violent situations....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Review of Police handling of ‘out of control’ parties
    An Independent Police Conduct Authority review has found that Police are working to ensure officers called upon to deal with out of control gatherings in future are better trained to deal with the situations they may face....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Wynyard and NZ Police Announce Ground-breaking Partnership
    Auckland, 28 August 2014 - Wynyard Group, a market leader in advanced crime analytics software and services, today welcomed the New Zealand Police as a long term partner in its Crime Science Research Institute (CSRI)....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Polls confirm dirty politics out and the Conservatives in
    The latest 3News-Reid Research poll has the Conservative Party on 4.6 per cent which means they are virtually on their way to Parliament. Garth McVicar, the Conservative Party candidate for the Napier electorate believes the polls are proof that the...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Toke the Vote 2014: NORML’s guide to NZ cannabis policies
    NORML’s policy, renewed at our recent national conference , is to encourage supporters to vote for parties and candidates who will work to reform our cannabis laws....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Internet Mana List Embodies Modern Aotearoa
    An impressive mix of personal and professional skills, cultural backgrounds and ages marks the release of Internet MANA’s combined party list. “Our list highlights the calibre of talent woven throughout Internet MANA,” said leader Hone Harawira....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • The Dirty Politics Fallout
    Tonight’s 3News-Reid Research poll shows that the Conservative Party is on the verge of making it into the next Parliament, even without an electorate deal with National. The poll, conducted in the week following the release of Nicky Hager’s...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Te reo Māori trending at New Zealand Fashion Week
    Language and fashion express culture and identity so it’s fitting for the Māori Party to launch its te reo Māori policy at New Zealand’s premiere fashion event in Auckland....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Party And Candidate Lists for 2014 Election Released
    The Electoral Commission has released the nominations for the 2014 General Election, with 15 registered political parties and 554 candidates contesting the election....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Take Steps Against Child Poverty with Us!
    TAKE STEPS AGAINST CHILD POVERTY WITH US! Britomart to Aotea Square, Auckland, 11am, Saturday 6 Sept Music * Interactive Art * Stilt Walkers * Great Speakers * Plus more!...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Leading politicians to debate NZ’s role in the world
    Have you ever wondered where New Zealand stands when it comes to issues beyond our borders? Join Amnesty International's North Shore Group on Monday 1 September for a lively cross party debate and the chance to find out the answer...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Political Debate on Family Violence – Livestream
    The Dunedin Collaboration Against Family Violence is happy to announce the upcoming political debate on Family Violence chaired by Professor Nicola Atwool of the University of Otago. Family Violence is a huge problem in our community and we invite representatives...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Politicians ignore 20% of New Zealanders
    Despite 20% of New Zealanders supporting it, none of the parties currently represented in Parliament endorse the legalisation of cannabis....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Company tax rates
    The Op Ed pages of the left-leaning New York Times are full of articles by economists supporting proposals to dramatically lower Company Taxes. These economists are urging the United States to lower company taxes and point to Canada where the...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Stephen Dudley Case: No appeal or review of discharge
    On 8 August 2014 Crown Law received a request from the office of the Auckland Crown Solicitor to consider a Crown appeal against the discharge without conviction entered in respect of M in the High Court at Auckland on 7...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Dudley Family Statement
    “We are utterly devastated at the news regarding the law not allowing for this unjustified discharge without conviction to be appealed....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Chief Judge: Chief Sized Offender Bias
    “Justice by name, not by nature” states Ruth Money Sensible Sentencing Trust National Spokesperson, of Justice Helen Winkelmann’s decision to discharge without conviction the offender charged with the fatal attack on 15 year old schoolboy Stephen...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Confusion over BPS Reducing Crime and Reoffending Results
    A survey has revealed widespread confusion – even amongst professionals in the justice sector – about what the government’s reducing crime and reoffending progress reports actually mean....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Commission condemns violent attack on Gay Wellingtonians
    The Human Rights Commission has condemned a violent attack on staff and patrons at a gay bar in central Wellington last Friday. GayNZ reported that the alleged attackers were abusive and violent when they realised the bar and the people...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • One down, 12 to go says Community Housing Aotearoa
    The Waimahia Inlet is a step in the right direction for community housing to deliver 20% of New Zealand’s social and affordable housing by 2020, says Community Housing Aotearoa. CHA Director Scott Figenshow says the sector has been set a...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Research considering changes to pedestrian crossing laws
    A University of Canterbury research project has been considering the costs and benefits of a range of potential changes to pedestrian crossing laws that would bring New Zealand in line with the rest of the world....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Dairy farmers and consumers at risk from unapproved GE Grain
    The Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) must immediately test all maize and soy for presence of unapproved GE lines coming from the Americas....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • NZ on Air Refuse to Condemn “Kill the PM” Song
    New Zealand On Air has refused to condemn @peace’s 'Kill the PM' song, and will not provide any assurance that no further taxpayer money will be used to support groups that promote violence and political hate. Earlier today the Taxpayers’...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • iPredict Ltd 2014 Election Update #32
    The combined wisdom of iPredict’s 8000 registered traders suggests National has begun a recovery after its prospects crashed last week following the release of Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics . The governing party’s forecast party vote is back...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Juicy carrot for prisoners alarming suggestion – McVicar
    The Conservative Party Justice Spokesman, Garth McVicar says the public will be alarmed to learn that the only tool the Corrections Department has available to get prisoners to behave is to offer them a juicy carrot....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Panel: Fiji’s Return to Democracy
    Fiji’s post-coup elections and their impact in the Pacific o What is the role of the media in the Elections? o How might New Zealand help Fiji on its return to democracy?...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Cross-party consensus on climate change critical
    Senior NZ health professionals welcome recent policy announcements on climate change by major political parties, saying cross-party consensus is critical to address this leading health issue....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Minister of Transport to Attend Election Debate Tomorrow
    Organisers of tomorrow night's transport debate in Auckland are delighted that Minister of Transport Hon. Gerry Brownlee will now be attending....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Society Applauds Proposed NZ-Wide Risk Assessment
    The Wise Response Society is heartened to see that Labour' just released Climate Change policy includes formal support for the Society's call for a New Zealand-wide Risk Assessment. The Green Party has also formally acknowledged support for the Wise...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Iwi Leaders welcome Labour policy on climate change
    Labour’s policy to stamp out price – gouging by big polluters that has cost New Zealand tax-payers $1.4 billion over the last 3 years and especially impacted low – income Maori households has been welcomed by Dr. Apirana Mahuika, Chairman...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
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