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	<title>Comments on: Too far.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 01:27:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: southernsquall</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-7/#comment-212635</link>
		<dc:creator>southernsquall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-212635</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Whaleoil v The Standard. Suppression issue aside, a salient reminder of what the blogisphere offers: http://www.thestandard.org.nz/too-far/&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Whaleoil v The Standard. Suppression issue aside, a salient reminder of what the blogisphere offers: <a href="http://www.thestandard.org.nz/too-far/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/too-far/</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Pacific Empire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Common Sense at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-7/#comment-152063</link>
		<dc:creator>Pacific Empire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Common Sense at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-152063</guid>
		<description>[...] spar regularly with the posters and commenters at The Standard, and hypocrisy of the Left with regard to anonymity and privacy has not gone unnoticed in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] spar regularly with the posters and commenters at The Standard, and hypocrisy of the Left with regard to anonymity and privacy has not gone unnoticed in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: National: targeting the victim at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-7/#comment-139517</link>
		<dc:creator>National: targeting the victim at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-139517</guid>
		<description>[...] towards women and shows what a fiction the line between the respectable National Party and vile filth-mongers like Slater really [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] towards women and shows what a fiction the line between the respectable National Party and vile filth-mongers like Slater really [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stalkathon &#171; &#8216;SodBlog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-87836</link>
		<dc:creator>Stalkathon &#171; &#8216;SodBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-87836</guid>
		<description>[...] of you who don&#8217;t remember Steady Eddy may want to refresh your memories be reading his famous John Minto stalking post or the (hastily removed) slur against Labour Party candidate, Kate Sutton, in which [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of you who don&#8217;t remember Steady Eddy may want to refresh your memories be reading his famous John Minto stalking post or the (hastily removed) slur against Labour Party candidate, Kate Sutton, in which [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Down the club at The Standard 2.01</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-50174</link>
		<dc:creator>Down the club at The Standard 2.01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 09:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-50174</guid>
		<description>[...] well known for such tasteful moves as photoshopping the face of a teenage blogger onto gay porn and stalking John Minto but I thought given David&#8217;s role as a prominent National activist he would have more sense [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] well known for such tasteful moves as photoshopping the face of a teenage blogger onto gay porn and stalking John Minto but I thought given David&#8217;s role as a prominent National activist he would have more sense [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pee Public Pee Public Pissing</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-31925</link>
		<dc:creator>Pee Public Pee Public Pissing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-31925</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Pee Public Pee Public Pissing...&lt;/strong&gt;

I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Pee Public Pee Public Pissing&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Scum at thestandard.org.nz</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-25630</link>
		<dc:creator>Scum at thestandard.org.nz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-25630</guid>
		<description>[...] Slater&#8217;s co-blogger Steady Eddy is back to his creepy brownshirt tricks again and this time his target is Labour Party candidate Kate Sutton. I&#8217;ll say right now that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Slater&#8217;s co-blogger Steady Eddy is back to his creepy brownshirt tricks again and this time his target is Labour Party candidate Kate Sutton. I&#8217;ll say right now that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous blogging &#171; 100 Word Blog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13818</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous blogging &#171; 100 Word Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13818</guid>
		<description>[...] on some of the blogs I visit make anonymity seem like best-practice.Ãƒâ€š Ãƒâ€š This nonsense over atÃƒâ€š The StandardÃƒâ€š provides a good example; cyber-stalking, legal threats and more hysteria than you can shake a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on some of the blogs I visit make anonymity seem like best-practice.Ãƒâ€š Ãƒâ€š This nonsense over atÃƒâ€š The StandardÃƒâ€š provides a good example; cyber-stalking, legal threats and more hysteria than you can shake a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jum</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13742</link>
		<dc:creator>Jum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13742</guid>
		<description>rOb

that&#039;s cheating leaving after landing a punch, ineffectual as it may have been.

Guys is a mixed gender term.

Male aggro is in the systems of both men and women, just as love and sharing and caring are in the systems of both men and women.

Don&#039;t let the sharks bite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rOb</p>
<p>that&#8217;s cheating leaving after landing a punch, ineffectual as it may have been.</p>
<p>Guys is a mixed gender term.</p>
<p>Male aggro is in the systems of both men and women, just as love and sharing and caring are in the systems of both men and women.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t let the sharks bite.</p>
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		<title>By: r0b</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13734</link>
		<dc:creator>r0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13734</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt; Guys

Is this your answer to boy racing - getting rid of that male aggro in a safe way? &lt;/em&gt;

Why would you assume that I&#039;m a guy?  Not that I&#039;ll see your reply, I&#039;m off for a week - byeeee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em> Guys</p>
<p>Is this your answer to boy racing &#8211; getting rid of that male aggro in a safe way? </em></p>
<p>Why would you assume that I&#8217;m a guy?  Not that I&#8217;ll see your reply, I&#8217;m off for a week &#8211; byeeee</p>
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		<title>By: Jum</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13725</link>
		<dc:creator>Jum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13725</guid>
		<description>Guys

Is this your answer to boy racing - getting rid of that male aggro in a safe way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys</p>
<p>Is this your answer to boy racing &#8211; getting rid of that male aggro in a safe way?</p>
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		<title>By: r0b</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13713</link>
		<dc:creator>r0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13713</guid>
		<description>IP &lt;em&gt; Wqhile I have no doubt they have vested interests in their opinions (hell, I have a vested interest in lower taxes), I think they&#039;re honestly held. &lt;/em&gt;

Why is it that persons from the right so often see life only in terms of personal gain?  I have no financial &quot;vested interest&quot; in supporting a Labour government.  I would benefit enormously from some forms of lower taxes.  The interest that I and many others have in supporting the political left is to support a fair society and a sustainable environment.  Is that impossible to believe?

&lt;em&gt;  but it is total hypocrisy to maintain that political campaigning needs to be public, yet political activism on blogs should not be. &lt;/em&gt;

There are worlds of difference between campaigning and blogging, so it is not at all hypocritical to treat them differently.  And the requirement that campaigning should not be anonymous is not new, as robinsod pointed out above it has been in place in NZ since 1993 (and it is also in place in other similar democracies such as Canada).  Once again you are attacking a &quot;strawman&quot;.

If you want to attack total hypocrisy, you should go challenge DPF for his lifetime banning of posters with opposing ideologies, while ostensibly championing the cause of &quot;free speech&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IP <em> Wqhile I have no doubt they have vested interests in their opinions (hell, I have a vested interest in lower taxes), I think they&#8217;re honestly held. </em></p>
<p>Why is it that persons from the right so often see life only in terms of personal gain?  I have no financial &#8220;vested interest&#8221; in supporting a Labour government.  I would benefit enormously from some forms of lower taxes.  The interest that I and many others have in supporting the political left is to support a fair society and a sustainable environment.  Is that impossible to believe?</p>
<p><em>  but it is total hypocrisy to maintain that political campaigning needs to be public, yet political activism on blogs should not be. </em></p>
<p>There are worlds of difference between campaigning and blogging, so it is not at all hypocritical to treat them differently.  And the requirement that campaigning should not be anonymous is not new, as robinsod pointed out above it has been in place in NZ since 1993 (and it is also in place in other similar democracies such as Canada).  Once again you are attacking a &#8220;strawman&#8221;.</p>
<p>If you want to attack total hypocrisy, you should go challenge DPF for his lifetime banning of posters with opposing ideologies, while ostensibly championing the cause of &#8220;free speech&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: The Prophet</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13687</link>
		<dc:creator>The Prophet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13687</guid>
		<description>Yes, very good IP, I mean....me. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, very good IP, I mean&#8230;.me. <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: IrishBill</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13659</link>
		<dc:creator>IrishBill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13659</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s good to see you&#039;re commenting reasonably Prick. I had a word with &#039;Sod and he&#039;s going to pull his head in. You are not at all blameless yourself however, and we have all noticed your tendency to use other commenters names instead of their handles and to imply you know biographical detail about them. We enjoy the fact that the standard is a forum for real debate and would appreciate it if you maintained the tenor you&#039;ve shown in your last comment.

Captcha: &quot;truce the&quot; I kid you not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s good to see you&#8217;re commenting reasonably Prick. I had a word with &#8216;Sod and he&#8217;s going to pull his head in. You are not at all blameless yourself however, and we have all noticed your tendency to use other commenters names instead of their handles and to imply you know biographical detail about them. We enjoy the fact that the standard is a forum for real debate and would appreciate it if you maintained the tenor you&#8217;ve shown in your last comment.</p>
<p>Captcha: &#8220;truce the&#8221; I kid you not.</p>
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		<title>By: Insolent Prick</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/too-far/comment-page-6/#comment-13655</link>
		<dc:creator>Insolent Prick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 04:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=947#comment-13655</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is it because he hands you your arse every time you try to pick a fight with him? You&#039;re the most obnoxious poster here and I have to agree with others that you&#039;re just here to disrupt.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, James, Robinsod hasn&#039;t engaged in a debate with me for several months.  After losing every argument, he descended to telling me I was a nobody, that he had no interest in debating with me, telling me to &quot;fuck off&quot;, then tarted threatening to stalk me, then actually stalking me.  Strange behaviour to stalk a nobody.

There are some people at the Standard who do debate.  r0b certainly does.  IrishBill does.  Wqhile I have no doubt they have vested interests in their opinions (hell, I have a vested interest in lower taxes), I think they&#039;re honestly held.  Roger Gnome honestly believes his misguided views.  Sometimes, as over the EFB when he was forced to back down from the standard Labour Party line that National was just as guilty as the Labour Party in stealing taxpayers&#039; money--he has the belated honesty to admit he&#039;s wrong.  I don&#039;t credit Tane with the same intellectual honesty.

Matthew Pilott used to engage in debate, but he got cranky some while back after losing argument after argument at kiwiblog.  It appears he was offended my my reference to him as Matthew Pilott, instead of his pseudonym &quot;Fighter Pilott&quot; at Kiwiblog.  This was an error on my part, and I didn&#039;t intend it to be an outing.  I would suggest that a reference to him as Matthew when he&#039;s posting as Fighter Pilott at Kiwiblog, and simultaneously as Matthew Pilott at the Standard, is not an outing.  I say again I didn&#039;t mean to offend.  If I did so, I apologise.

I&#039;m not sure where Robinsod&#039;s ire comes from.  I have never attempted to out him, or encouraged anybody else to do so.  I&#039;ve said at the Standard repeatedly that I don&#039;t support outing anonymous bloggers.  I&#039;m quite comfortable with the Standard&#039;s bloggers remaining anonymous.  I accept that their may be sensitive issues relating to their employment, which would prejudice their future prospects if their actual identities were revealed.

There is an outright hypocrisy between the Standard&#039;s opposition to anonymous contributions to politics, however, and the Standard&#039;s insistence that it remains anonymous.  I don&#039;t have a personal problem with either, but it is total hypocrisy to maintain that political campaigning needs to be public, yet political activism on blogs should not be.

My personal view is that people are smart enough to make a judgement on the value of an anonymous contribution to either political life or political debate.  Anonymity diminishes the value of the argument.  Because the person making the argument cannot be personally held to account for the argument, the argument is less valuable than an argument made by a named person, whose real-life credibility is at stake when they make the argument.  Let&#039;s face it, you can say anything you like when you don&#039;t have to account for it.

On the other hand, a very good argument made anonymously beats a crappy argument made by a named person every time.  And I think the audience is generally smart enough to draw that distinction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is it because he hands you your arse every time you try to pick a fight with him? You&#8217;re the most obnoxious poster here and I have to agree with others that you&#8217;re just here to disrupt.</i></p>
<p>Actually, James, Robinsod hasn&#8217;t engaged in a debate with me for several months.  After losing every argument, he descended to telling me I was a nobody, that he had no interest in debating with me, telling me to &#8220;fuck off&#8221;, then tarted threatening to stalk me, then actually stalking me.  Strange behaviour to stalk a nobody.</p>
<p>There are some people at the Standard who do debate.  r0b certainly does.  IrishBill does.  Wqhile I have no doubt they have vested interests in their opinions (hell, I have a vested interest in lower taxes), I think they&#8217;re honestly held.  Roger Gnome honestly believes his misguided views.  Sometimes, as over the EFB when he was forced to back down from the standard Labour Party line that National was just as guilty as the Labour Party in stealing taxpayers&#8217; money&#8211;he has the belated honesty to admit he&#8217;s wrong.  I don&#8217;t credit Tane with the same intellectual honesty.</p>
<p>Matthew Pilott used to engage in debate, but he got cranky some while back after losing argument after argument at kiwiblog.  It appears he was offended my my reference to him as Matthew Pilott, instead of his pseudonym &#8220;Fighter Pilott&#8221; at Kiwiblog.  This was an error on my part, and I didn&#8217;t intend it to be an outing.  I would suggest that a reference to him as Matthew when he&#8217;s posting as Fighter Pilott at Kiwiblog, and simultaneously as Matthew Pilott at the Standard, is not an outing.  I say again I didn&#8217;t mean to offend.  If I did so, I apologise.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where Robinsod&#8217;s ire comes from.  I have never attempted to out him, or encouraged anybody else to do so.  I&#8217;ve said at the Standard repeatedly that I don&#8217;t support outing anonymous bloggers.  I&#8217;m quite comfortable with the Standard&#8217;s bloggers remaining anonymous.  I accept that their may be sensitive issues relating to their employment, which would prejudice their future prospects if their actual identities were revealed.</p>
<p>There is an outright hypocrisy between the Standard&#8217;s opposition to anonymous contributions to politics, however, and the Standard&#8217;s insistence that it remains anonymous.  I don&#8217;t have a personal problem with either, but it is total hypocrisy to maintain that political campaigning needs to be public, yet political activism on blogs should not be.</p>
<p>My personal view is that people are smart enough to make a judgement on the value of an anonymous contribution to either political life or political debate.  Anonymity diminishes the value of the argument.  Because the person making the argument cannot be personally held to account for the argument, the argument is less valuable than an argument made by a named person, whose real-life credibility is at stake when they make the argument.  Let&#8217;s face it, you can say anything you like when you don&#8217;t have to account for it.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a very good argument made anonymously beats a crappy argument made by a named person every time.  And I think the audience is generally smart enough to draw that distinction.</p>
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