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Transmission Gully to cost $15 per trip

Written By: - Date published: 9:52 am, August 30th, 2013 - 187 comments
Categories: transport - Tags:

If you had $3 billion to spend on transport over 25 years, what would you do with it? Increase spending on cycling facilities six-fold and give all our cities Amsterdam-like sustainable transport? Increase the amount spent on public transport by over a third? Or, build a duplicate motorway for 3% that Wellington’s population will use, at a cost to the taxpayer of $30 per commuter per day?

If you chose the third option, congratulations, you could work in Gerry Brownlee’s option. That’s right – the $3 billion Transmission Gully project, which will carry only 20,000 vehicles a day (basically, 10,000 commuters), will cost the taxpayer $15 for each trip driven on it for 25 years.

If you know why we need a duplicate motorway for a rout where traffic volumes are declining, and why it’s the best use of $3 billion for the country, well, could you tell me? Because I just can’t work it out.

tg cost per trip

187 comments on “Transmission Gully to cost $15 per trip”

  1. Stever 1

    I guess if you’re massively lobbied by the roading companies (how would we know?) and/or hoped for a good directorship with them once you’re out of government, you might make these sorts of plans.

    • Tom Gould 1.1

      Or, you have enough sense to realise that the current route out of Wellington is stuffed and after 25 years of procrastination it’s time to get on an build Transmission Gully? It recently took me two hours to drive the 60km from the airport as far as Waikanae early afternoon on a week day. I guess I could have rode a bike, in the wind and rain, and taken all day? Maybe we should bring back the horse and carriage?

      • ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.1

        Heard of the train ?

        Its the same anywhere Friday afternoon, bad weather , gridlock early on.

        Wont change with a new motorway. Just check out Aucklands motorway to Puhoi, the queues stretch back along the motorway .

        Capacity of motorway 2500 cars per lane, capacity of road at end of motorway 1200 cars per lane.

        Its simple maths

        • srylands 1.1.1.1

          “Heard of the train ?”

          The train is grubby, with school kids and viruses. It is also (mostly) slower than the car. I used it for 20 yearsm so I have a sound point of comparison.

          • Daveosaurus 1.1.1.1.1

            In other words: “oooh, icky young people”.

            Sounds like a great advertisement for congestion charging. A 100% avoidable stupidity tax, paid only by the sort of people who regard their fellow citizens as “oooh, icky young people:”.

          • QoT 1.1.1.1.2

            Sorry, srylands, I don’t see why someone living in Australia is qualified to comment on the current state of Wellington public transport.

        • Tim 1.1.1.2

          Speaking of the train, if this route is to be pursued, 3 metres to the side of the Gully road could provide an alternate train route (with tunnels where necessary), and pick up Pauatahanui, Whitby, all those Porirua East Suburbs and newer ones to the south before relinking with the Main Trunk Line.
          No so expensive if its done in conjunction with TG, and a better option for the future.

      • Conor 1.1.2

        Well, you lobby for electrification to Waikanae and more train services, as well as the Bus Rapid Transit to the airport. Far cheaper. Even with Transmission Gully you’ll still get bottlenecks.

  2. TheContrarian 2

    Whether Transmission Gully or not something still needs to be done. The Centennial Highway is not only inadequate, it is also dangerous.

    And cycle ways are all well and good but I don’t fancy anyone cycling to the Kapiti Coast for a weekend away with the family.

    • bad12 2.1

      Dangerous, get with the play, since the wire barrier was installed along the ‘dangerous’ part of the Centennial Highway there have been how many deaths on that stretch of road…

      • TheContrarian 2.1.1

        Motorcyclists certainly aren’t a fan. And yes the wire barriers save lifes but doens’t stop the accidents themselves.
        Nonetheless it is in dire need of an upgrade or something because as it stands it is extremely congested and inadequate for a growing capital city.
        I know, I know “more public transport” but even with more public transport you still have families, trucks and holiday makers using the road which is in a terrible state. Having to sit on it for three or more hours after a holiday weekend isn’t any fun.

        I’m not stumping for transmission gully itself, more that I recognise the current road is inadequate

        • Lightly 2.1.1.1

          $3 billion seems like a hell of a lot of money to spend on a duplicate motorway if the problem is improving a few stretches on the existing road…. and how does TG fix that anyway?

          • TheContrarian 2.1.1.1.1

            It needs another lane in each direction – particularly that stretch that goes around the sea with the cliffs on the other side. Also coming up into Raumati there are stretches of dual lanes but they bottle neck into a single lane a bit further down the road. Very frustrating on long weekends.

            • Lightly 2.1.1.1.1.1

              So, because there’s a few hours of congestion on public holidays for a few thousand people, we should build a $3 billion road?

              This is why we have benefit/cost ratios and assess them for the country as a whole, not just for the people who sue the road. The few who use the route get a great benefit, but everyone else shoulders a huge cost. There are other things we could do with that money that would create more good for more people.

              • TheContrarian

                “So, because there’s a few hours of congestion on public holidays for a few thousand people, we should build a $3 billion road?”

                I think you missed the bit where I said ‘I’m not stumping for transmission gully itself, more that I recognise the current road is inadequate”

                • weka

                  “I know, I know “more public transport” but even with more public transport you still have families, trucks and holiday makers using the road which is in a terrible state. Having to sit on it for three or more hours after a holiday weekend isn’t any fun.”

                  I gather that the Dutch stagger their holidays in order to avoid road congestion. I’m sure there are many varied and complementary solutions to Wellington road congestion, that would be solved with intelligent and creative/lateral thinking* and planning. Unfortunately we have a govt with an agenda that has little to do with the wellbeing of NZ.

                  *lateral for NACT. But if you listen to people thinking outside the neoliberal box, it’s just normal thinking.

        • bad12 2.1.1.2

          i am not about to provide the likes of you with research, BUT, i suggest that what you have just posted as a comment is Bulls**t,

          If you are going to post comments on fact where’s the links to the accident rate befor the wire barrier was installed and the accident rate after the wire barrier was installed???

          As far as what i have commented about Transmission Gully there has been NO call for further upgrading of public transport from Kapiti to Wellington, there is a perfectly adequate and underused double track railway connecting the two,

          What i believe needs building is a number of car park buildings at all of the high use rail stations including Paraparaumu, Pukerua Bay, Plimmerton,Mana/Paremata,Porirua, Linden, Tawa/ Redwood, thus allowing a greatly expanded use of park and ride for commuting,

          To make such parking buildings both more affordable and more effective they could be built in conjunction with apartments above the car park levels and shopping complexes on one floor or another…

          • TheContrarian 2.1.1.2.1

            Are you really suggesting using a wire barrier over a concrete one actually prevents accidents from happening in the first place? Magic Wire!

            Fact remains that stretch of the highway is notoriously narrow and unforgiving – no matter what barrier one uses.It needs to be widened at least and build out over the sea to add a passing lane, do that same on the other side too. You could have, as you suggested carparks at either end say so there is the option to take rail if ones choses

            • bad12 2.1.1.2.1.1

              TC, what i am suggesting is that the wire barrier has dramatically reduced ALL accidents along that stretch of the Highway, and, i cannot remember a fatal accident having occurred along the ‘wired’ stretch of Centennial since that barrier was installed,

              i still await your posting of the Proof of the first assertion you made at 10.20,

              The rest of my post does not suggest that we simply stick a carpark at each end of the Centennial Highway, please god send us some wing-nuts with a higher intellect than the current crop…

              • TheContrarian

                Proof that the road is dangerous? Or proof that a wire barrier doesn’t stop people still having accidents?

                I’m not a wing-nut by any stretch of the imagination. Sorry pal.

                • bad12

                  All roads are inherently dangerous especially those that have traffic hurtling toward each other at 100K an hour with a painted line separating them from each other,

                  Even those that have concrete barriers are dangerous, less so than those which rely on a simple painted line as the means of separation admittedly, but as all modes of transport are controlled at the whim of Humans they are simply as fallible as the average Human is,

                  Your claim is that accidents still happen on the stretch of Centennial Highway that has had the ‘wire barrier’ installed,

                  Such a claim is bullshit, such a claim insinuates that the wire barrier achieved nothing, when the facts are that the installation of the wire barrier has been the catalyst for there to be a dramatic fall in the amount of accidents on that stretch of Highway, and what accidents do occur are far less severe than those that previously occurred resulting in far less severe injury than befor…

                  Provide us the proof, accidents befor the barrier was installed versus accidents after the barrier was installed…

                  • TheContrarian

                    No, no, no. Fuck man, pay attention
                    The wire barrier has dramatically reduced the risk of death and serious injury. Yes, we know that and I never ‘insinuated’ the wire barrier achieved nothing.

                    People are still crashing because it is a narrow, twisting road with little room for error. The wire barrier can’t change the shape of the road, the width of the road etc. It just stops people from careening into oncoming traffic or smashing into a heavy concrete median.

                    Here, page 23. It conclusively shows the wire barrier saves life’s and serious injury and the road is safer. But 81 people still crashed on that stretch of road – as it is a fast piece if highway then such crashes are more than a mere ding, carry on your way. The road is too narrow so when a crash occurs there is no way to get around it so traffic backs up. This road needs upgrading because it is a high accident area and once a crash has happened traffic backs up because there is no where else to go.

                    “Your claim is that accidents still happen on the stretch of Centennial Highway that has had the ‘wire barrier’ installed,”
                    Because they do

                    accidents befor the barrier was installed versus accidents after the barrier was installed…
                    Done.
                    Page 23
                    http://www.kiwirap.org.nz/pdf/KiwiRAP%20FINAL%20Intro%20and%20Performance%20Tracking%20for%20website.pdf

                    • srylands

                      Yes well said. I have had vistors from Australia laugh (literally) when I tell them this is the main road to Wellington. My sister asked me why we put up with it.

                      The fact that there is any debate about this speaks volumes about the mindset of too many New Zealanders. I am lost about how this happened – maybe we need to look at the school curriculum? I also think that many of this mindset just don’t get out and about enough around the world and look at the roads OECD nations employ – even countries with comparble GDP per capita (Slovenia for example) have much better roads.

                      It comes back to the big problem of productivity and supporting an underclass on welfare at $25 billion plus PER YEAR to do nothing (or have more kids – rinse and repeat).

                      So a couple of billion for TG over 25 years is nothing. How about $250 billion over 25 years for welfare checks that just take the country backwards.

                      I have answered my own question – Slovenia doesn’t spend $25 billion annually on welfare checks.

                    • McFlock

                      Slovenia vs NZ:
                      half the population,
                      half the GDP,
                      4 times the population density

                      Oh, and much lower GINI than NZ. Might have an effect on welfare cheques, you cherry-pickin’ liar.

                      And you’ll probably find that Slovenia pisses less money away on holiday highways, too

                    • srylands

                      “you cherry-pickin’ liar. ”

                      Another example of bad manners.

                    • McFlock

                      the first example being your cherry pickin’ lyin’.

                • McFlock

                  Actually, a physical barrier prevents dangerous passing manoeuvers as well as providing a stronger perception that the margin for safety ends in the driver’s own lane (much stronger than a thin white line with all this apparently empty space to the right).

                  So yes, physical barriers do prevent accidents, as well as minimising their effect.

                  • TheContrarian

                    Indeed, but nonetheless it is an infamous accident area, wire barrier not with standing. It is narrow, congested, and there are frequent accidents. If not Transmission Gully then the current road should be upgraded in some fashion.

                    • McFlock

                      The barriers were part of that ongoing upgrade.

                      Still no actual accident rate data, then?

                  • Greywarbler

                    srylands @ 1.11 pm
                    How can saying cherry pickin’ lying be bad manners? If it is true –
                    1 That you’re cherry picking.
                    2 That you’re deliberately putting false figures into the argument.

                    Don’t try to throw a cloak of affronted prissyness over the thread when people address your comments directly and find them wanting.

        • fender 2.1.1.3

          ” …..inadequate for a growing capital city.”

          Key told us Wellington was a dying city.

        • Lightly 2.1.1.4

          traffic volumes are falling between wellington and the kapiti coast – all TG would do is subsidise more sprawl – we all get to pay so a handful of commuters get a faster drive

          • TheContrarian 2.1.1.4.1

            The current road has been inadequate for quite some time. It’s not a new problem. The volume would have to fall pretty low for it to be as viable as when it was built. But yeah – forget TG, just widen the road and add a few more passing lanes/dual carriage ways and it should suffice for the time being

            • alwyn 2.1.1.4.1.1

              There used to be passing lanes in parts of the road. They were removed because the tend to cause both more accidents and greater hold-ups when the road is heavily used.
              Cars, attempting to pass, tend to speed up at the end of the passing lane and then, trying to merge, hit vehicles in the other lane. The merging of two lanes also slows down the traffic to below the peak flow speed and creates a disturbance in the traffic flow that propogates backwards up the highway.
              That they don’t work in heavy traffic volume situations is why they are generally closed off during holiday weekends.

    • Jack 2.2

      More cycle lanes are NOT a serious solution to transport issues in Wellington. Investment in improved public transport along with promoting car pooling (eg faster lanes for cars with 2 or more people in them) may help. But frankly the Centennial Highway problems won’t be solved by cycle lanes (my grandmother won’t be using them). And frankly Wellington Streets are dangerous for cyclists and the council should be actively encouraging cyclists to stay at home.

      Transmission Gully doesn’t have to be a bad thing – it may make bus services to Kapiti more efficient. Not investing in core infrastructure isn’t environmentally sustainable.

  3. framu 3

    youve got this all wrong – srylands has told us that he drives this route everyday from australia. So he should know right?

    :-)

    • srylands 3.1

      “youve got this all wrong – srylands has told us that he drives this route everyday from australia. So he should know right.”

      No I fly from Australia. I drive from the Kapiti Coast.

      Last night was typical. Road works on the wire barrier section. One lane closed. Wire barrier down with traffic directed across it one direction at a time. 10 minute delay getting home.

      We need better transport infrastructure all round. Hopefully TG is the first installment in a motorway standard road from Wellington to Auckland.

      Note that in 1975 Australia had our standard of SH1 between Syd and Mlb. It is now a motorway standard all the way, with no traffic lights between Syd and Mlb.

      TG is a 100 year asset. And traffic volumes will increase over the next 100 years.

      • Lightly 3.1.1

        I’m happy to pay my share of $3 billion so you don’t occasionally have a 10 minute delay. Where do I sign up?

        The comparison with Australia and Melbourne is stupid. each of them have the same population as the whole of New Zealand and several million more live in close proximity to that route. Kapiti has a population of 50,000, only 10,000 of whom commute to Wellington

        • framu 3.1.1.1

          oddly enough – thats the exact claimed time saving for the orewa tunnel north of auckland

          but the ticketing/payment system is such ill thought out bollocks, and because everyone uses the tunnel, its actually comparable time wise and just plain easier to just go through orewa like we always did.

      • framu 3.1.2

        yeah whatever mate – its a joke, get over it.

        “No I fly from Australia. I drive from the Kapiti Coast.” – yeah i make up stories too, fun isnt it? Face it, you got caught out in a massive lie the other day (or you let the appearance of the lie persist)

        “Road works” – yeah road works happen all over the place all the time, its hardly unique to that bit of road in australia, i mean kapiti, whoops – i meant 15% gst

        “in 1975 Australia had our standard of SH1 between Syd and Mlb” – so in 100 years will the population travelling whatever routes out of wellington, be the same as the amount travelling the syd > melb route today?. Without any data its kinda pointless. One could equally point to all sorts of roads all over the place. Without comparable data its pointless

        :”And traffic volumes will increase over the next 100 years.” – evidence please (real evidence , not some dross from rodger kerr)

        • srylands 3.1.2.1

          ” yeah road works happen all over the place all the time, its hardly unique to that bit of road in australia,”

          No I was referring to SH1.

          • framu 3.1.2.1.1

            so i take it you cant answer any of the points raised or questions addressed to you?

            because if you could, you would.

            The distraction/derailment game is the first identifier of trollism

        • srylands 3.1.2.2

          “(real evidence , not some dross from rodger (sic) kerr)”

          Roger Kerr did more for high quality public policy analysis than any other New Zealander in the last 50 years. We all owe him gratitude.

          This tribute by Janet Albrechtsen says it all really.

          http://nzinitiative.org.nz/site/nzbr/files/1110%20Tribute%20to%20Roger.pdf

          • framu 3.1.2.2.1

            so no evidence then?

            thought so

            • srylands 3.1.2.2.1.1

              Calm down. You don’t have to use TG when it is built. You don’t pay any taxes or own a car so it won’t cost you.

              • framu

                im actually in the top tax bracket and own a car, and as pointed out to you earlier the funding comes from taxation of one form or another

                still no evidence though.

                • srylands

                  “im actually in the top tax bracket and own a car,”

                  I’m impressed. Are you an Oriental bay Green? They park their Beemers in those cute little garages and walk to work in Jervois Quay. Then the Beeners come out on Sunday for the trip to Martinborough. (I am not making this up.)

                  Sorry I’ve lost the thread. I’m bored, and busy. The reality is that 14 months from now those big Komatsus sill be clawing away at the escarpement. Gerry will have had his “turning the first sod” thing with the silver shovel.

                  I suggest you investigate things you can change (the wisdom to know and all that :-) :-))

                  • framu

                    so im lefty that works hard, owns a car and gets paid well – its not really that impressive

                    “Sorry I’ve lost the thread. I’m bored, and busy.”
                    – ahh, no evidence then. Thought not.

                    • srylands

                      “a comment from yourself that occured some time ago and in a different set of replies ”

                      sorry I have lost the thread again :-)

          • McFlock 3.1.2.2.2

            The fact you had the stupidity to write that says it all about you.

            That fucker killed people with a pen.

          • thatguynz 3.1.2.2.3

            Good god man, now you’re seriously taking the piss..

    • srylands 3.2

      “youve got this all wrong – srylands has told us that he drives this route everyday from australia.”

      Just to clarify – I said i drove this route when I was NOt in Australia.

  4. srylands 4

    So charge a $15 toll to use it. Problem solved.

    • TheContrarian 4.1

      Does that include the cost of the flight from Australia?

    • Lightly 4.2

      except no-one will pay a $15 toll, especially not when the existing road is free (and there legally has to be a free alternative to toll roads)

      And the way National is setting it up, the taxpayer pays the 4120m a year to the private consortium regardless of traffic volumes…. so your ‘solution’ actually on succeeds in slashing the number of people using TG to nearly nothing and the taxpayer pays anyway.

      • srylands 4.2.1

        “except no-one will pay a $15 toll, especially not when the existing road is free (and there legally has to be a free alternative to toll roads)”

        The existing road would not be maintained to highway standards so would become unattractive. It will not be a viable alternatve for long.

        People would not pay a $15 toll. Well not every day. I predict the toll will be $5. ($200 per month if you commute Monday-Friday)

        My commuting costs (when I am in NZ) are (per month):

        $400 petrol (About $100 of this is fuel excise)
        $380 parking
        $200 (approx vehicle maintenance tyres etc)

        Total = $980 per month

        So this will rise to $1180 per month. (There may be some minor clawback with fuel savings).

        • bad12 4.2.1.1

          SSLands, the boss says you should get back to the adding machine as he wants those figures by lunchtime and is sick of you wanking about online when you are supposed to be, as the mere serf you are, making Him money…

          • srylands 4.2.1.1.1

            We have not had adding machines in this place since 1986.

            • bad12 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Lolz, keep the fantasy working overtime SSLands, the place you claim to work wasn’t ‘there’ in 1986,

              Compulsive Liars when called on their lies cannot help but further complicate the original lie by adding too it layers of what they think will be believable…

              • srylands

                It is “srylands” not “SSlands. Warping the identity of others was a technique comminly used by the Stasi. It was also applied grotesquely by pakeha to Maori. Maori children at school were prevented from using their names. What you are doing is exactly the same.

                “Compulsive Liars when called on their lies cannot help but further complicate the original lie by adding too it layers of what they think will be believable…”

                I don’t know what you are on about. You simply resort to bad manners when called out on policy ideas that will make New Zealand a poorer place. My motivation in commenting on the site is totally altrusitic. I am concerned about the welfare of workers and the poor. The policies that you promote will harm these New Zealanders. It is exactly the same motivation that drove Roger Kerr (RIP).

                I accept you mean well but you are misguided. The world is moving in the polar opposite direction to that which you advocate. That makes you frustrated. That boils over into bad manners. I understand.

                • McFlock

                  So making fun of your online pseudonym is exactly the same as the Stasi or systematic cultural oppression. Bit of a long bow to draw even for you, spylands.

                  whoops, just oppressed you over generations. My bad.

                • bad12

                  Roger Kerr, (RIPOFF) is what you mean??? aw SSLands have i bent your silver spoon,

                  Better go get it extracted, bent silver spoons create gastric congestion,(which may in turn lead to a restricted ability for you to create a fantasy) in essence as my forbears would have said to you,

                  ”Kaore Kai, kaore tutae, kaore tutae,koe mate,

                  PS, i do tho find my funny bone is definitely activated with your appeal to my better nature via the ”Maori kids were not allowed to use their own names” and could well imagine myself moved to tears if this were to be accompanied by a violin solo,

                  i can assure you i have full knowledge of what ‘Maori kids’ have been subjected to and can even tell you that at least one ‘Maori kid’ was hauled out of a social studies class in the early 1970’s and whipped with a piece of cane for inquiring where the brown half of the class was when Captain Cook discovered New Zealand,

                  Your having an internet debate with that ‘kid’ right now Boyo so save your f**king faux sympathy…

                • Murray Olsen

                  Yeah, yeah, Roger Kerr loved the poor so much he just wanted to make more of them.
                  I think Sorrylands needs professional help. After his performance the other day, with more fucks per line than a WhaleSpew thread, he’s talking about bad manners? FFS. Seriously, get help before you do yourself some real harm.

    • Colonial Viper 4.3

      For someone who is against high taxation, and is also a believer in the Laffer Curve, you have weird ideas.

      • Steve Wrathall 4.3.1

        Do you believe govt revenue would be maximised at 100% taxation? If not, you believe in the Laffer Curve

        • Colonial Viper 4.3.1.1

          You asked me a question about a point feature, and then said it means I believe in the whole curve.

          That’s really stupid.

    • Macro 4.4

      “So charge a $15 toll to use it. Problem solved.”

      Yeah Right! You know about toll roads don’t you!? User pays? Check this out:
      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/overpriced-and-underused-m6-toll-road-is-going-nowhere-fast-8606755.html
      Why waste money on what will be ulimately another white elephant!

      • srylands 4.4.1

        “Why waste money on what will be ulimately another white elephant!”

        It will be highly used and wildly popular. It will be a valued asset for a century. In 20 years people will go on walking tours through the old road and gape in amazement that it was the road to Wellington.

        That’s why.

        • Macro 4.4.1.1

          Do you have ANY understanding of History?
          http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/roads_1750_to_1900.htm
          Those who don’t are destined to repeat it – the fate of toll roads has always been one of disuse and ultimate falling in to disrepair and collapse. TG and all the other white elephants will be no different. A complete and utter waste of money for no good purpose other than to polish the egos of a few idiots.
          And read the other link in my comment above – you never know you MIGHT learn something.

        • Ad 4.4.1.2

          If that was the case then Treasury’s procurement conditions for Transmission Gully would not stipulate that the PPP will not include road usage – and all its attendant modelling problems. Treasury has seen the utter failure of all those Australian tolled ppp’s over the last decade.

          Can anyone explain why New Zealand is one of the last countries in the world to keep pouring huge funding into motorways?

          • srylands 4.4.1.2.1

            “Can anyone explain why New Zealand is one of the last countries in the world to keep pouring huge funding into motorways?”

            You are kidding right? What huge funding? What motorways?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_road_network_size#Motorway_network

            • Macro 4.4.1.2.1.1

              Do you actually READ the links you provide? Or are you capable of understanding the content? Your link shows that NZ has a length of public roading per capita that exceeds the USA, and is the 4th highest in that category.
              It also carries this warning:
              “The factual accuracy of parts of this article (those related to tables) may be compromised due to out-of-date information. Please update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (November 2011)”
              Furthermore, you will note that according to the table Australia has NO motorways whatsoever! NZ’s are mostly expressways and do not count either – but they are nonetheless expensive to build.

              • srylands

                “Do you actually READ the links you provide? Or are you capable of understanding the content? Your link shows that NZ has a length of public roading per capita that exceeds the USA, and is the 4th highest in that category.”

                You are misreading the table! NZ has the 4th LOWEST quantum of motorways per capita (41.3) (And 1,2,3) are outliers).

                yes the data has limitations but the conclusion is unambiguous – in the OECD NZ stands out as having woefully under invested in high standard roads. The paucity of motorways in NZ compared to any other industrial country is very notable.

                Not sure why Australia is missing from the table. But they would rank in the top half. I can get the data if you insist.

                • srylands

                  OK I re read your post:

                  Your link shows that NZ has a length of public roading per capita that exceeds the USA, and is the 4th highest in that category.

                  So what – “public roads” includes ANY road. Big deal.

                  My point was about the paucity of motorways. I stand by the data. We have under invested in high quality roads. TG will add 27 km. A tiny start. We really need a high standard motorway from Auckland to Wellington. It could probably be built for the equivalent cost of 2 years welfare payments ($50 billion)

  5. srylands 5

    “according to the Green Party, tolls are likely to contribute just a fraction of what the Government will pay back to a consortium over 25 years, with taxpayers still footing the lion’s share of the bill.”

    Also if teh article is quoting the Greens correctly, that claim is wrong. Taxpayers pay nothong for transmission gully. It is all out of the NLTF – it is all user pays. A toll would be better policy. In practice we will have a combination of both.

    It is a lot of fuss over a tiny 27 km motorway repalcing a third world road.

    Anyway it is a done deal. Time to move on.

    • Lightly 5.1

      Um. Where does the money in the NLTF come from ? the land of pixies. No, it comes from TAXES on fuel and road use (and some from the general taxation pool). So, it is funded by taxpayers.

      And it’s not ‘user pays’ if every taxpaying road user int he country pays for a road that only 10,000 people use. That’s, like, the opposite of user pays.

      • srylands 5.1.1

        “(and some from the general taxation pool)”

        What taxes are used to pay for state highways? (apart from fuel excise and road user charges)?

      • srylands 5.1.2

        “And it’s not ‘user pays’ if every taxpaying road user int he country pays for a road that only 10,000 people use. That’s, like, the opposite of user pays.”

        I don’t see the Greens arguing that all users of the rail service between the Coast and Wellington should pay for the full cost of the service. the current return trip from Paraparaumu costs about $22. That would be close to $50 if it had to cover the full cost.

        Road users subsidise rail (rightly) because it reduces road congestion.

        • framu 5.1.2.1

          whoop-dee-do

          for extra points can you show how this is even relevant to your claim that “Taxpayers pay nothong for transmission gully”?

          you are making this incredibly easy by the way.

          • srylands 5.1.2.1.1

            “you are making this incredibly easy by the way.”

            I’ll remember that over the next 6 years as I drive past giant Komatsu earth movers cutting through the escarpement next to macKays Crossing :-) I can’t wait.

            • framu 5.1.2.1.1.1

              whoop-dee-do

              can you show how this is even relevant to your claim that “Taxpayers pay nothong for transmission gully”?

  6. infused 6

    Can’t wait for it.

    Longer it’s left, the more expensive it’s getting. Hurry up and build the fucking thing.

  7. infused 7

    What’s the Greens alternative?

    • Lightly 7.1

      by alternative do you ‘where would they spend the $3 billion instead’ or ‘what would they spend on the Kapiti route, which has falling traffic volumes?’

      • infused 7.1.1

        Thanks for pointing out your short sited views. I love how you guys think. Can’t see past your feet.

        • Lanthanide 7.1.1.1

          I would have thought spending $3b on a road with declining traffic volumes was short sighted, with the definition of “short sighted” being “only looking at the near future and not long-term trends”. Silly me.

  8. jaymam 8

    $15 per trip, that’s a very good way of showing what projects cost.
    May I ask everyone to work out all expensive projects on a per-something basis?
    e.g. the cost of a road as a cost per metre of one lane
    the cost of a building as a cost per square metre
    a sewage treatment plant as a cost per ratepayer
    an airport extension as a cost per metre
    etc
    then any outrageously expensive project is really easy to spot.

    • swan 8.1

      Cost of the CRL in Auckland is even worse. It is in the order of $20-$40 a trip depending on patronage projection etc.

      • Melb 8.1.1

        We won’t see the Greens make a nice picture about that!

      • Macro 8.1.2

        link?
        or just out of your arse?

        • srylands 8.1.2.1

          It is close. But of course the Greens only apply CBA when it suits. Thats why we have a Green Wellington mayor advocating a loner runway at Wellington airport and light rail TO the airport. Cost benefit rations? oops. We only apply those to NASTY roads. Then oppose building them anywhere any time forever.

    • alwyn 8.2

      A couple that spring to mind are.

      Auckland,s CRL is estimated at about $3 billion for 3.5 km.
      That’s about $860 million/ km.
      The extension of the Wellington runway, so beloved by the city’s Green mayor, is estimated at about $300 million for 300 metres.
      That’s a nice round billion dollars per kilometre.

      Transmission Gulley seems like a real bargain compared to those.

      • srylands 8.2.1

        “The extension of the Wellington runway, so beloved by the city’s Green mayor, is estimated at about $300 million for 300 metres.”

        Thats what gets me about the Greens. CBA is applied selectively. Why on earth did Celia think it was a good idea to give corporate welfare to Infratil? And then raise expectations the ratepayers would subsidise a runway?

        Back to TG. Isn’t the solution to privatise all transport ? – i.e sell all the current roads to the private sector and charge for their use. Do the same for PT. Then the market can determine capital projects and any subsidies for uneconomic transport can be visisble.

        The current debate over TG could be avoided. We have (mostly) got the Government out of decisions on which electricity assets should be built, and which aircraft Air NZ should purchase. The same can be done for roads. Those who can and will pay get roads to a standard thet are willing to pay for. Everyone else can stay out of it.

        • framu 8.2.1.1

          ” sell all the current roads to the private sector and charge for their use”

          god – thats got to be one of the stupidest ideas going and for the ideology that bangs on and on about choice i amazed you cant see the colossal hole in the argument.

          If a private company owns a road and you dont like their pricing how do you get your car to a different one?

          Ive bought the road out side your house in kapiti, australia – dont like my prices – tough shit because youve got no way to avoid paying me to connect to the wider network

          and thats before we even get to the dead weight of pointless duplication

          large scale, nationwide infrastucture is more efficient if its run as a single operator network. And its even better if there arent rentseekers squatting on it sucking profit out

          • srylands 8.2.1.1.1

            You realise I am referring to the Kapiti region north of Wellington? It is not in Australia.

            • framu 8.2.1.1.1.1

              oh god – youve gone all brett dale

              Its obvious that im reffering to the thread the other day when you were caught out in regards to you being in australia and kapiti at the same time.

              Just address the questions put to you wonder boy.

        • bad12 8.2.1.2

          SSLands, i have no objection for the Transmission Gully route to be sold at market value to the likes of you to build a road on,

          i see no reason then to add even a cent of public money including fuel taxes to the building of Transmission Gully,

          You and your ilk can buy the land, pay to build the road ,and charge people whatever you want to drive on it,

          Problem solved, why are you not busy pressing the current Government to sell you the Transmission Gully route…

          • srylands 8.2.1.2.1

            “Problem solved, why are you not busy pressing the current Government to sell you the Transmission Gully route…”

            Because construction is about to start. Problem solved.

            • Macro 8.2.1.2.1.1

              So now is your chance – get in quick and make a killing!

              • srylands

                Get in quick on what? It is not even clear which of the two consortiums will win the tender. Luckily they are both high quality candidates. I am sure they will do a great job. It will be exciting to watch the road being built from next year. New Zealand has so much wasteful public spending, it is heartening to finally see an investment in something truly worthwhile.

                • Macro

                  Look just put your tender in and make sure you leave some money on the table ;) – it’s all yours and then you can charge whatever you like and if you make your toll high enuf then no one else will want to use, it and you can zip up and down to your hearts content!

  9. bad12 10

    What the advocates for the ‘white elephant’ Transmission gully cannot seem to grasp is that in ‘rush hour traffic’ Transmission gully will allow them to access the Wellington Motorway at Linden/Tawa in a far faster manner than the Centennial highway in it’s present form accomplishes,

    What then, as the Ngaraunga interchange is currently a major ‘choke point’ for South bound traffic which at peak use times backs the traffic up on the Ngaraunga Gorge section and slows this back up to a stop start crawl adding further traffic from Transmission Gully to the Wellington Motorway in a faster time frame than is currently achieved via the Centennial Highway will simply exacerbate the wait times in the current peak time snarl up on the Ngaraunga Gorge,

    Thus Transmission Gully will have No benefit for the peak time traveler in either time or fuel savings, simply giving the illusion of speed over the Kapiti to Linden/Tawa stretch of Motorway whereupon the ‘choke point’ of the Ngaraunga interchange will remove any and all savings in time and fuel gained,

    As far as roads goes, the only possible means of achieving any time and/or fuel savings from building Transmission Gully would necessitate the addition to the Wellington Motorway at the point where the Ngaraunga Interchange disgorges the contents Kapiti/Porirua/Tawa traffic onto the Urban Motorway the addition of at least 2 extra lanes,

    The problems thus created tho would make this a 5 lane spaghetti junction with both Hutt and Kapiti traffic bound for Wellington having to negotiate 5 lanes so as to be traveling in the ‘right’ lane in a very short length of motorway to be able to exit the Urban Motorway at their desired off-ramp,

    One mistake on any give day would simply result in chaos with the whole South bound system blocked for hours…

    • srylands 10.1

      I agree with that. The solution is twofold:

      1. Improve the Ngaraunga interchange (widening the urban motorway to 4 lanes would do the trick)\

      2. Introduce congestion charges to smooth out the peak. In the morning the congestion is only a real problem at that interchange from about 0740 to 0850. At school holidays when traffic volumes at that time fall by 10% the problem largely goes away. So simple – introduce pricing to move 10% of the traffic to earlier or later.

      • bad12 10.1.1

        SSLands, you need not exercise your particular ‘intelligence’ with this particular question, simply close your eyes and change the fantasy you are in, Wellington, flick, Sydney, flick, Melbourne,and flick, back to Wellington,

        While as a ‘thought’ this sounds like a simple solution it would simply create a ‘high accident zone’ where the two flows Kapiti v Hutt would have a very small stretch of highway to negotiate over 4 or 5 lanes to ensure they were in the correct lane so as to be able to exit the Urban Motorway at the particular off ramp for their destination…

      • bad12 10.1.2

        So now the solution moves from $3 billion + to 5 billion plus dollars, each trip now being 25 dollars each way as any such ‘fix’ would require an extra lane on the North bound stretch of the Urban motorway from the Aotea Quay on ramp to the Ngaraunga interchange,

        Congestion charges???so that in your fantasy we should spend 5 or 6 billion dollars for you to shave 3 minutes off of as your little fantasy tells us is a non peak time journey in both directions,

        We simply come back to a perfectly adequate and underused rail system where it was shown that tripling the number of car parks available at Paraparaumu rail station tripled the number of people making use of park and ride,

        Paraparaumu rail station’s car park is now full again on every working day and turning the one level of tarmac into 2 or 3 parking buildings with apartment complexes built on upper levels would take 100’s more vehicles off of the road network…

        • srylands 10.1.2.1

          “Paraparaumu rail station’s car park is now full again on every working day and turning the one level of tarmac into 2 or 3 parking buildings with apartment complexes built on upper levels would take 100′s more vehicles off of the road network…”

          Good grief. I missed that gem of an idea.

          Living in an apartment above the Paraparaumu railway station would be so cool. (NOT!)

          Is this where the Kiwibuild places are going to go? The only people that would live above the railway station at Paraparaumu are refugees and long term welfare no hopers and gang members. Welcome to the ghetto. It woud then become a cesspit that nobody would go near. End of park and ride.

          • McFlock 10.1.2.1.1

            only if the apartments were built to the lowest standard possible by absentee property developers.

            • srylands 10.1.2.1.1.1

              “only if the apartments were built to the lowest standard possible by absentee property developers.’

              Um no. Even if they were built to the highest building standards, living above the Paraparaumu railway station would be a nightmare. Hence the only way to get people to live there would be to make them cheap.

              • McFlock

                Um yes.

                Decent building standards with a couple of levels of parking and maybe a small shopping complex as sound and vibration buffers would work wonders. Probably be better than quite a few inner-city apartments/hotel rooms I’ve been in.

                • bad12

                  indeed, considering that such apartment complexes would be built above any numbers of floors of car parking and if required a shopping floor such apartments would be ‘interesting’ places to live along with a great use of the space and providing the means for reducing number of vehicles on the Highway system at peak flow times…

                  • srylands

                    “such apartments would be ‘interesting’ places to live along with a great use of the space and providing the means for reducing number of vehicles on the Highway system at peak flow times…”

                    Great – why don’t you approach a bank with that idea and develop the complex? You could be known as the Kapiti ghetto master.

                    • Ad

                      They already have in Auckland. The whole lot sold off the plans, and it’s now under construction. Check it out it’s in New Lynn. It’s a partnership between Council and Infratil Properties Ltd.

                      The transit station, shared space area, library etc have all won massive architectural and construction awards.

                  • srylands

                    “indeed, considering that such apartment complexes would be built above any numbers of floors of car parking and if required a shopping floor such apartments would be ‘interesting’ places to live along with a great use of the space and providing the means for reducing number of vehicles on the Highway system at peak flow times…”

                    Right so propert developers always have an idea to making a buck. Why do you think this might not have happened?

                    • McFlock

                      Right so propert developers always have an idea to making a buck. Why do you think this might not have happened?

                      Too busy selling bush-girt mansions with sea views at the end of the proposed holiday highways. /sarc

                      Seriously, is your argument against an idea simply that every single idea worth doing has already been done?

                    • bad12

                      Its obviously had one drink to many again, i suppose we are providing some good in the world by keeping it busy, if it were not venting its bile here it would probably be engaged in some act of drunken family violence..

                    • srylands

                      “Its obviously had one drink to many again, i suppose we are providing some good in the world by keeping it busy, if it were not venting its bile here it would probably be engaged in some act of drunken family violence..”

                      You are the one that vents bile. Typical Left nastiness. You can really see how the Satsi managed to recruit so many citizens. A state in NZ I am sure you sould be totally at home at.

                    • McFlock

                      spylands, did you ever notice that you’re a hypocrite as well as a fucking cherry pickin’ liar?

                    • srylands

                      “spylands, did you ever notice that you’re a hypocrite as well as a fucking cherry pickin’ liar?”

                      No but I noticed you are rude.

                    • McFlock

                      just a different flavour of rudeness from your own.

                      you cherry-pickin’ lyin’ hypocrite

                    • Ad

                      You should also have a good look at what Cooper and Co have done around and over Britomart over the last decade. It’s commercially successful and people love it.

                • srylands

                  Whooa, no no. You are taking the piss.

                  Why would anyone want to live in the middle of Paraparaumu near the bloody railway station !!? Within 10 minutes drive there are fantastic places for housing (or exisiting houses) with waterfront, beach, or bush vistas.

                  The whole centre of Paraparaumu is vile. It is a great place to buy your groceries, or go to Mitre 10 and then race home again. The railway station is great becuase the train does provide an important alternative transport mode. But living above the railway station? If this is the thinking that goes into Kiwibuild it will be a source of homes for the poor and desperate. But maybe that is what is intended.

                  • McFlock

                    Lol

                    I thought your objections were about the engineering practicality, but apparently it’s because you couldn’t imagine anybody wanting to live in that area. Even if things really are that bad, it’s called “urban renewal“. Look it up some time.

                    • srylands

                      Of course my objections were not engineering based.

                      If it happens it will be a Hoisng NZ ghetto for the poor. Maybe that is what you meant. If so my apologies – that would work.

                    • McFlock

                      You’re such an ugly little soul, aren’t you.

                      If national do it, it would be a ghetto.
                      If it were done by someone who hates people on less than $100k p.a., like you do, it would be a ghetto.

                      If it were done by people with half a brain who realised that the target market included commuters to the CBD, as well as providing a hub for local infrastructure beyond transport, then it could be quite a good plan for the developers and especially the community.

                      It can go either way, yes. But done by someone competent, it would probably be bloody good.

                  • fender

                    There is no actual centre as such in Paraparaumu, and there’s no “vile” areas either. The new council/ library area would be ideal to develop into a “centre”.

                    There’s merit in the idea to have apartments near the railway station for those who wish to live there. The Paikakariki railway has something similar sounding nearby.

                  • Ad

                    You should also check out what is being planned in Otahuhu, and Panmure, and Avondale, and others.

                    In fact the really big one is the $100m+ development straddling the Manukau rail station by Manukau Institute of Technology. Close to weathertight on that job, with opening mid-2014.

                    The market is speaking and it’s simply people want that choice to live and work around public transport.

          • bad12 10.1.2.1.2

            And you whine like a beaten dog about me being rude, that’s just one long spew of rudeness, fuck off TR0LL people live above and next to railway lines all over the world,

            Considering that you do not even know where the large carpark at the Paraparaumu rail-station is i will just put your latest idiocy down to a faulty fantasy facility within your wee cranial cavity,(better get that bent silver spoon checked out),

            i also recommend building such parking facilities at most of the rail stations on the Kapiti-Wellington rail line, along with apartment complexes built above them all,

            My preference would be an apartment built above a park’n’ride at Paremata rail station..

            • srylands 10.1.2.1.2.1

              “My preference would be an apartment built above a park’n’ride at Paremata rail ”

              ha ha ha

              NOBODY WOULD LIVE THERE. It would be a GHETTO.

              • bad12

                Obviously been hitting the bottle with ‘its’ latest splurge of idiocy, a ghetto really, say four stories of parking, probably more like 7 when the Whitby commuters are factored in with any number of apartments built above,

                A grand view up and down the Porirua Harbor, fishing in the channel a few steps from the door, a major sports field across the bridge as well as a supermarket and cafes,

                Enough land around Paremata rail station to build 5 or 6 such buildings, sounds like a real ghetto to me….

                • srylands

                  “Obviously been hitting the bottle with ‘its’ latest splurge of idiocy, ”

                  More left vileness. A prelude to the NZ version of the Stasi. First dehumanise. Second off to reeducation camps.

                  • bad12

                    Finished slapping the wife and kids into line have you, nah a re-education camp by definition would suggest that there is something salvable, in your case it’s obvious that there aint…

                • srylands

                  ” grand view up and down the Porirua Harbor, fishing in the channel a few steps from the door, a major sports field across the bridge as well as a supermarket and cafes,”

                  So invest your money and build it. Oh I forgot Kiwibuild is coming.

            • srylands 10.1.2.1.2.2

              “i also recommend building such parking facilities at most of the rail stations on the Kapiti-Wellington rail line, along with apartment complexes built above them all”

              ha hah hahahahahaha bwuh hahhahhaha

              • Ad

                Most suburbs near rail lines in Auckland are having this planned precisely. Over half are already in commercial discussion.

            • srylands 10.1.2.1.2.3

              “people live above and next to railway lines all over the world,

              Yes – poor people live next to railway lines all over the world. Show me one example of a desirable residential property right next to a railway line? (no no above the subway near Knightsbridge in London) – next to a railway line like the line going through Paraparaumu?

              If you are suggesting that Housing NZ build flats for poor people next to Paraparaumu railway station, I agree that is fine. They can’t afford cars and it is great that they have access to transport. For the rest of us – FORGET IT.

              • bad12

                Oh we forgot about you the first time you polluted the atmosphere round here by posting a comment…

              • happynz

                Show me one example of a desirable residential property right next to a railway line? (no no above the subway near Knightsbridge in London) – next to a railway line like the line going through Paraparaumu?

                Adjacent to just about any BTS station in Bangkok you’ll find luxury high-rises.

              • McFlock

                Any house one the west side of otago harbour, with the exception of Ravensbourne because it gets fuck-all sun.

              • fender

                Yeah Srylands these projects look like ghettos.

              • Ad

                Brtitomart. Some of the country’s most expensive real estate. And multitudinous apartment towers. All one massive public-private concession.

    • TheContrarian 10.2

      “One mistake on any give day would simply result in chaos…”

      Yes, just like the Centennial highway.

      • bad12 10.2.1

        The traffic on the Centennial Highway is insignificant when compared to the flows at the Ngaraunga Interchange/Wellington Urban Motorway,

        Want to avoid traffic accidents, try park and ride on the train…

        • srylands 10.2.1.1

          “Want to avoid traffic accidents, try park and ride on the train…”

          The train takes too long when you add in transfers to and from the station. Plus you get wet if it rains. Then there are the viruses and dirt and school kids you get exposed to.

          I used the train for 20 years before switching to a car. I wouldn’t use the train now even if it was free. But.. I would invest more money in PT – it is great for the poor and the old and those who can’t drive – so it reduces road congestion. That is why road users subsidise PT users.

          • bad12 10.2.1.1.1

            It’s pretty obvious to us all that the only train you have ever used is ‘the fantasy train of thought’ which allows you to hop aboard and be a million different people in a multitude of places at the blink of an eyelid…

            • Murray Olsen 10.2.1.1.1.1

              He’d be the closest to Walter Mitty that I’ve ever come across in real life.

            • srylands 10.2.1.1.1.2

              “It’s pretty obvious to us all that the only train you have ever used is ‘the fantasy train of thought’ which allows you to hop aboard and be a million different people in a multitude of places at the blink of an eyelid…”

              When you lose the battle of ideas as the world goes in the opposite direction to your dream, you resort to rudeness. I have seen this before and it is predominantly Lefties that do it. That is why Lefties are under-represented at the cool parties. Nobody likes rude people.

              You can keep it up. It just reinforces the stereotypes that mainstream New Zealanders have of the Left.

              • bad12

                Having never met Bobody i cannot begin to imagine what He or She likes or dislikes, and a ‘cool party’ is a matter of opinion and your’s dont count for much round here buckwheat in case you haven’t noticed…

                • srylands

                  “Having never met Bobody i cannot begin to imagine what He or She likes or dislikes, and a ‘cool party’ is a matter of opinion and your’s dont count for much round here buckwheat in case you haven’t noticed…”

                  What?

              • fender

                Right wingers have boring parties….and they ring up noise control on themselves…

                “What?” saved by the edit eh
                I was going to ask about this Bobody person too.

              • McFlock

                spylands, you don’t like public transport because you don’t want to be in the same carriage as youths (and probably beneficiaries), and you say that making fun of a pseudonym is exactly the same as generations of oppression.

                And you whine about “rude”.

                fuck off.

              • Ad

                Auckland will always now be car dominated, but don’t mistake that for people choosing it. When the choice was taken away for public transport in the form of trams being stopped, the generation who used public transport fell massively and did not return. The dominance of the motorway system with arterial roads remains

                But we know when we give them the choice, the public take it. The evidence is on the routes in which public transport has had the same dedicated infrastructure spent and built as the car has had. That’s the North Shore busway, among others.

            • Greywarbler 10.2.1.1.1.3

              Is there a system in the world where you drive your car onto train pallets and travel by train with your car behind you, or even sitting in your car, so getting to destination with transport and not clogging roads?

              • bad12

                From memory, the Channel Tunnel uses a system something like that, but it would be a bit ‘bulky’ to try and use such a system as a form of mass transport for the daily commute…

              • McFlock

                lol

                That was fun to spitball in my mind!

                Carriage halts next to carpark – side lowers to be vehicle ramp into carriage – cars drive straight up into carpark perpendicular to line of train – side raises and train departs – when station reached, other side lowers and car drives straight off, fee charged according to license plate like congestion charge – egress side raises, ingress side lowers for cars at that station to drive straight on board, and so on…

                Does nothing for inner city congestion, though, so I suspect that’s where it’ll fall down. Might have other uses, though. Also rests on the concept that the vehicles don’t need to be tied down (unlike ships), and that the carriages have enough ventilation in case some numpty leaves their engines on, even in a tunnel.

  10. captain hook 11

    Hey dont knock it.
    This is so kiwis can live their dream.
    You know.
    Get to Palmerston five minutes quicker on a Saturday morning so they can go to Mcdonalds and then go home again.

    • Hayden 11.1

      Palmerston North, unfortunately. I remember the actual Palmerston being quite scenic.

  11. Greywarbler 12

    I think the deliberately obtuse like srylands should have to pay to continue their argument, as in the John Cleese and was it Eric Idle or Michael Palin sketch. Perhaps the system could freeze up after 5 until money changed hands.

  12. Sable 13

    As long as National politicians have fat share packages in the companies building the motorway I’m sure its money well wasted (oops I mean spent or is that squandered?) Stuff it I’m off to buy some shares…..

  13. billbrowne 14

    Just make the trains from Kapiti free for like, forever, with the caveat that no coasters are allowed to complain about roads or trains ever again – or they have to use the Akatarawa road for the next, say, ten trips.

    Then we can just forget about them and get on with our lives.

    • Macro 14.1

      Hehehe! The Akatarawas was my favourite route for getting from Upper Hutt to Paraparaumu Airport when flying on the weekends – used to do it in under an hour in a low flying spitfire.
      The first car a mate and i owned was a standard 10. cost us 10 quid. After school we would take turns in driving up to the top of the Akatarawas and seeing how quickly we could do the round trip. It all stopped when the car ran its big ends. His dad (obviously knowing what was going on) suggested we wreck it – which we did and netted 15 quid! it paid for our petrol. Every other car since has cost me money..

      • bad12 14.1.1

        That’s a grand old road apparently chiseled out of the hills by pick and shovel during the 1930’s depression years,

        Closed as often as it is open by the atrocious weather that the mountain range attracts, monster slips and bridges washed out in the valley on the Hutt side by the huge amounts of rainfall,

        i have only recently stopped being a regular user of the Akatarawa road as my use of the Forest Park accessed from the ‘saddle’ has been curtailed by my failing laborers bones,

        Funnily enough i remember during the earlier years of the Transmission Gully debate someone from within the Kapiti District Council calling for the Akatarawa Road to be upgraded and used as the alternative route for Kapiti traffic to access the Hutt Valley,

        The idea didn’t fly too high and my thought at the time was that the Kaptiti Council was floating such because of the high cost of maintaining the road and they were using aspot of wishful thinking hoping the Government would take it off their hands…

      • Greywarbler 14.1.2

        Memories, those were the days of our youth.

  14. Chooky 15

    From the Perches…need for long term transport planning for all Nzers….not short term financial gain for a few crony capitalists

    *All state highways and motorways should be free…there should be no tolls, which will only penalise the poor

    *Multi- billion motorways should not be built…in time of recession and oil crisis ( this is crazy!)

    * Emphasis should be placed on fast efficient rail in both islands….also economical state subsidised public transport (future oil crisis)…cf Switzerland with very efficient public economic transport

    * …Existing roads should be upgraded for safety but not rebuilt…(eg coastal run out of Wellington is great with the no passing wire barriers!)… Note: road accidents happen everywhere ….even and especially on straight , infrequently used roads in the country side…human nature being what it is …people nod off, get drunk,get careless etc..People have to learn to drive for the conditions and take more time)

    * all transport systems should be for the public good of ALL NZers….not the greasy pockets of VULGAR GREASEY CRONYIST CAPITALISTS and their dreams at the end of roads eg the proposed alternative to Wellington airport out at the coast (incidentally on fiercely contested Maori land)

    * we should be thinking TOURISM….(huge motorways in a small scenic country is a no! no! … tourists can go to LA or Germany for that…they come here to get away from that!)….cute scenic roads safe for biking is the way to go( rail for fast safe public transport and heavy goods transport… heavy trucks should be discouraged )

    • Populuxe1 15.1

      “*All state highways and motorways should be free…there should be no tolls, which will only penalise the poor”

      Tolls are a useful way of encouraging use of car pooling and use of public transport. The poor are more likely to be using public transport anyway – penalise the rich for the privilege of driving.

      “*Multi- billion motorways should not be built…in time of recession and oil crisis ( this is crazy!)”

      Um, isn’t that what they used to do during the Depression?

      “* Emphasis should be placed on fast efficient rail in both islands….also economical state subsidised public transport (future oil crisis)…cf Switzerland with very efficient public economic transport ”

      Which is probably why tolls would be a good idea.

      “* …Existing roads should be upgraded for safety but not rebuilt…(eg coastal run out of Wellington is great with the no passing wire barriers!)… Note: road accidents happen everywhere ….even and especially on straight , infrequently used roads in the country side…human nature being what it is …people nod off, get drunk,get careless etc..People have to learn to drive for the conditions and take more time)”

      To properly upgrade existing roads for safety would actually cost significantly more than simply building new ones to code. Your fatalism also suggests you have a misanthropic hatred of humanity.

      “* all transport systems should be for the public good of ALL NZers….not the greasy pockets of VULGAR GREASEY CRONYIST CAPITALISTS and their dreams at the end of roads eg the proposed alternative to Wellington airport out at the coast (incidentally on fiercely contested Maori land)”

      Nurse! Nurse! Time for Chooky’s dried frog pills. He thinks it’s the nineteenth century again!

      “* we should be thinking TOURISM….(huge motorways in a small scenic country is a no! no! … tourists can go to LA or Germany for that…they come here to get away from that!)….cute scenic roads safe for biking is the way to go( rail for fast safe public transport and heavy goods transport… heavy trucks should be discouraged )”

      Tourists don’t want to drive shitty roads in their campervans. They want roads like they’re used to. Cute scenic roads are distracting and known death traps.

  15. Greywarbler 16

    Disagree that all state highways should be free. Toll roads, which are alternative to state highways, should be charged for. But buses and trains should have low cost options for poor people’s travel. I went to Christchurch from Nelson for $54 the other day, nice trip. I might go by train and put up with the waiting round between bus arrival and train arrival if the cost wasn’t about $100. That is if it is running at all. If the round trip ticket was sold at reduced price for age one way, and half that for the return trip, I might consider it. But NZ Ril marketing and strategic planning hasn’t been able to cope with such ideas apparently. I may be wrong about this particular matter but it would have to compete with bus travel for me to consider.

  16. Swan 17

    Macro,

    Using the available patronage projections you get to about $20-40 depending on assumed cost of capital. The key thing about the CRL is even after the $3b investment, operational costs alone will have to be subsidised, and obviously capital costs 100% subsidised.

  17. Hilary 18

    Develop the airport at Paraparaumu into an international one. There is already double tracked electric rail between Paraparaumu and Wellington with quite new carriages (all upgraded a couple of years ago). It just needs to be extended from Paraparaumu airport to Wellington airport and for the line to Palmerston North to be electrified with regular day services. The remaining road traffic would shrink. Look what Sydney has done over the last 30 years. Rail is frequent and efficient and each of those double decker carriages takes about 100 passengers in speedy comfort. It would cost a lot less than the outdated Transmission Gully and the Kapiti Expressway.

    • fender 18.1

      “Develop the airport at Paraparaumu into an international one.”

      Not enough space for that to happen without another expressway style eviction/demolition edict. For years this area has become increasingly built up with new homes. But since we are going to have this expressway soon where overpasses are going to be ugly structures dominating the skyline, what’s a bit more destruction in the name of “national significance”.

  18. Martin 19

    Let’s have another ME war [for cheap gas/oil]
    import more cars and build more/bigger roads to run them on.
    Lets fly everywhere, everyday.
    Let’s get drunk on infinite growth on a finite planet
    and then when the weather burns go “it’s not climate change”

    when we could have localised,
    lived within our means and
    developed real communities instead of
    stuffing a capital city into a tight space and
    its lemming culture of mass commuting 30km x 2 everyday..

    probably too late now.

  19. RedBaronCV 20

    1. Take Srylands free Wellington Carpark away from him.
    2. Allow him for a large fee to hook up his own personal railway carriage – then he could blatantly consume – “this is more expensive than a beamer..”
    3. Even by the standards of the Righties Transmission Gully is expensive. Shifting the airport would be cheaper?

    • srylands 20.1

      “Take Srylands free Wellington Carpark away from him.”

      It is not free. It is $360 per month (GST excl)

      “Even by the standards of the Righties Transmission Gully is expensive.”

      I assume you meant to say “even by the standards of the eighties”?

  20. Erentz 21

    Better option:

    Upgrade centennial highway: $500 million (unfortunately bad planning has started to get in the way)

    Deep bore bypass for SH1 from the Terrace tunnel to Kilbirnie: 1-1.35 billion (they will be spending about 800-1000 million on the current ad hoc flyover/tunnel/underpass/Tce-tunnel-duplication anyway), so that should be:500 million difference

    High quality light rail to miramar and the airport: 700 million

    1.7 billion. Not sure what else is reasonable to spend 1.3 billion on in wellington at this stage, other than the various regional improvements already planned. So put that into other things: housing and Auckland rail.

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    Labour | 27-10
  • Legal victory a boost for all working women
    Today’s legal victory for equal pay is a much-needed boost for working women at a time when the Government is pushing through reforms which will make it harder for them to get pay rises, Labour’s Women’s Affairs spokesperson Sue Moroney...
    Labour | 27-10
  • National’s failed commodities export strategy exposed
    National's strategy to rely on commodities such as milk powder and logs has been exposed in the September trade figures released today, the Green Party said."National's strategy to hang all economic hope on exporting ever-increasing volumes of milk powder and...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Caution needed on calls to arm police
    There is no justification for routinely arming our police and doing so would change forever the way officers interact with their communities, Labour’s Associate Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. “As one of the few organisations distinguished by its unarmed status,...
    Labour | 23-10
  • Govt strains to get tea break law through
    The Government has been left with egg on its face - failing to get its much-vaunted, but hugely unpopular, meal break law passed in the first week of its new term, Labour spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says.“National desperately...
    Labour | 23-10
  • How low can you go? Mining the depths
    The company says there will be economic benefits, which the EEZ Act says the EPA must consider, but even these benefits are in doubt. The royalties while not set will be tiny, the profits will flow offshore, and whatever phosphate...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Fed Farmers defend GE Agriculture
    Federated Farmers, which represents a minority of farmers, appears to be captured by a pro-GE clique hell bent on increasing unsustainable technologies for the benefit of the herbicide and patent controlling seed companies. That there are better more sustainable farming...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Government loses the affordable housing race
    Nick Smith is dreaming if he thinks he can deliver affordable housing to Cantabrians on his current figures, says Labour’s Associate Housing spokesperson Poto Williams. “The Minister’s announcement that the Government will build 237 new homes, most of which will...
    Labour | 23-10
  • Labour’s thoughts with Canadians
    Labour has offered its sympathies to the family and friends of the Canadian soldier who died in what appears to be a premeditated and unprovoked attack while standing at guard at the Ottawa National War Memorial. “Our thoughts are also...
    Labour | 23-10
  • What next for TVNZ? Outsourcing the news?
    Television New Zealand’s decision to outsource Māori and Pacific programming is a real blow to the notion that our state broadcaster is a public broadcaster, says Labour. “CEO Kevin Kenrick has said today that TVNZ has ‘a very long and...
    Labour | 22-10
  • Green Party expresses sympathy for Canadian shooting victims
    The Green Party expressed its solidarity with Canadians and the Canadian Parliament today, offering its sympathy for family and friends of the soldier killed in the attack. "Our thoughts are with all those caught up in the shooting in Canada...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Poverty & inequality don’t need protest marches – they need a riot:...
    The global level of inequality continues to skyrocket… Number of billionaires doubled since financial crisis The number of billionaires has doubled since the start of the financial crisis, according to a major new report from anti-poverty campaigners. According to Oxfam,...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • If Key knows who Rawshark is…
    I’m sorry, what? John Key ‘given Rawshark’s name’The Prime Minister believes he knows who hacked Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater’s computer and produced the source material for Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics, according to a new edition of a recently published...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • Child Poverty stats in NZ
    Child Poverty stats in NZ...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • Crimes Act + Police Investigation = WTF
    Just to frame the farce that is the Roastbuster’s investigation and conclusion – here are the parts of the Crime Act http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/whole.html#DLM329057  the Roastbusters are proven to have violated – that the police (and some suspects!) themselves acknowledge occurred: Crimes...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Publishing Journalists’ Home Addresses Is A Tactic Of The Right, Not The ...
    I think I’m starting to get rather annoyed with the conduct of some pro-MANA people over this ongoing Parliamentary Services crew complement issue. Yes, we get that there are legitimate issues to be raised with how some political reporters in...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Aucklanders caught between a tarseal-addicted government and a weak mayor
    Len Brown’s proposal for motorway tolls to reduce congestion and provide funding for better public transport is a weak response to a critical issue. The $12 billion dollar shortfall on transport funding he talks about is mainly for projected new...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • A Very Weird Story: Deconstructing Darren Aronofsky’s Noah.
    NOAH is a curious movie. Conceived as a biblical epic, it’s target audience was originally the millions of Americans who regard the Bible as God’s inerrant word. With the sin-filled works of Hollywood forbidden to these true-believers, Christian movie-makers have developed...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • You Can Get Away With Rape In New Zealand
    Jessie Hume with last years petition against rape     The police have sent a strong message today.  In fact they’ve been sending a strong message for a while; a message that our government supports. “You can literally get away...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Roast Buster case – no charges. In the immortal words of NWA…
    Roast Busters case: No prosecutions Police are to make an announcement this afternoon on Operation Clover, the investigation into the “Roast Busters” allegations. The Herald understands the victim has been told that the alleged offenders will not be prosecuted due...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Key’s flag change distraction to cost $26million!
    No. Way. Bid to change NZ flag to cost millions The cost of holding two referendums and consulting on a change of flag has been estimated to be just under $26 million. Look. We all appreciate that the sleepy hobbits...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Why NZ Herald’s Labour Party crocodile tears are so audacious
    The front page the NZ Herald would use if they thought they could get away with it No one can take the recent columns by NZ Herald seriously… John Armstrong: Shadow lingers on National John Roughan: Labour’s leadership vote matters...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • The beginning of the end of Cameron Slater?
    Slater postings on man bizarre, court told A businessman has changed his appearance and had to install extra security at his home after Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater posted his business and personal documents online, he says. Mr Slater has...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • We are a milk power republic and Fonterra our unelected senate
    Wow. Just wow… Deputy mayor says he’ll be sacked South Taranaki deputy mayor Alex Ballantyne says he expects to be sacked because he has spoken out about the impact gasses coming from dumped Fonterra dairy products have had on his...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • MEDIA WATCH: “…But *actually* this is about ethics in political-game jo...
    Yesterday, a piece of mine on the recent revelations about Hone Harawira employing several gentlemen either accused or convicted of sex offences was published on The Daily Blog. Predictably, given the fierce loyalty which Hone inspires in his party faithful and...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • Privilege cheque
    There was no race problem in my childhood. Living in central Wellington I was well-insulated from what was going on not so far away. This was the 60s and 70s, where the teachers enjoyed free love in the staff room...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • A brief word on Key’s claim that it will be raining carnage
    Isis will ‘rain carnage on the world’ – John Key Left unchecked Isis would “rain carnage on the world”, Prime Minister John Key says, but he has yet to make a decision on whether New Zealand troops will join a...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • Meanwhile…
    ...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • How does Andrew Little win Labour Leadership and unify the caucus?
    Audrey Young’s excellent column on how the Caucus vote  is shaping up shows how Andrew Little becomes the next leader of the Labour Party. She identifies the factions as the following… Andrew Little 6: Andrew Little, David Cunliffe, Iain Lees Galloway,...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Joe Trinder – Right of response to Curwen
    You have asked that Hone Harawira deserves to explain what happened, how would he explain when his next door neighbour is an alleged sex offender. What explanation can Hone offer he wasn’t involved, Hone had no idea this offending was...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • MEDIA WATCH: That Hella-Weird Feeling When You Defend Tova O’Brien
    Oh dear. Yesterday morning I blogged that Hone deserved a chance to explain what exactly had happened as applies his office’s Parliamentary Services crew complement – and, importantly, that we deserve to be able to judge him on the strength of...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • Canadian Green MP warns against harsh anti-terror measures
    Canada’s Green Party has provided a welcome counterpoint to Prime Minister Harper’s call for tougher anti-terrorism laws in the wake of a soldier outside the Canadian Parliament. On October 22, while she was still locked in her parliamentary office, Green...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • When is an asset sale not an asset sale? When it robs from the poor and ste...
    National have turned state housing on its head. At no time during the 2014 election did the Key Government even hint that they were going to privatise 30% of the Housing NZ stock of state homes. Not once. Key even...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part To...
    . . Continued from: Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Rua) . Bill English comes clean on National’s intentions for HNZ privatisation . On 14 October, in a report on The Daily Blog, I wrote, In...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • The Questions Have Been Asked – They Deserve An Answer
    A few days ago, allegations that had been percolating for some time about Hone Harawira employing three either accused or convicted sex offenders on his Parliamentary pay-roll came to light. (one imprisoned before working for MANA; one who found himself convicted and...
    The Daily Blog | 26-10
  • I have seen one future, and it is bleak
    . . Back in  March 2012, I wrote this story regarding a march to support striking workers at Ports of Auckland. It appears there was some prescience about some of my observations at the time… . | | 18 March...
    The Daily Blog | 26-10
  • US air strike war Key wants us in has killed a civilian a day so far
      The US air strike war that John Key wants us to join has killed a civilian a day so far. From the Washington Post... The United States launched its first airstrikes on militants in Syria on Sept. 23, and has continued...
    The Daily Blog | 26-10
  • The instant Jihad syndrome
    My favourite new term is ‘self-radicalised’ – it suggests the reasons for terrorism are totally divorced from the actions of the West. This need to suddenly ramp up terror laws because of lone wolf, self-radicalised Jihadists seems convenient and counter-productive....
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • We have nothing to fear from Ebola but fear itself
    I suspect most Americans perceive Ebola like this   I can’t work out if the fear being spread within the media about Ebola is deliberate or just ignorance. Yes Ebola is a terrible plague that kills a large percentage of...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Anjum Rahman – “Meritocracy? I wish.”
    I’d like to start by linking to a post I had published at another site in support of Nanaia Mahuta for the Labour Party leadership election.  She has a reasonable chance, given that she already has the endorsement of Te...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • Chocolate milk shortage and creepy Santa? Let’s talk about real news
    Child poverty is still a scarily serious problem in this country and house prices are soaring through the roof to the point where it is simply impossible for the average New Zealander to buy a home. There is also little...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • It’s time to celebrate Kiwi schools and teachers
    Some would have you believe that New Zealand’s schools are in a state of collapse, that your children are not being educated well and that things are going to hell in a hand basket.  That there is no innovation, no...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • Ideological Blitzkrieg – Privatization of state housing, more charter sch...
    Pundits in pundit land will tell you that this Government is boring, that Key is the great pragmatist and that it is his ability to create elegant solutions that keeps him the firm favourite in many Kiwi eyes. This ability...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • Hegemony rules but resistance is fertile
    The Prime Minister is a puppet. Not just our current Prime Minister, but given the forces of multinational globalisation, the role of any head of state, is less as independent actor, and more as a puppet of international trends and...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • An open Letter to Sir Bob Jones: demanding a ‘liveable wage’ is not “...
    How out of touch with reality is Sir Bob Jones? You know, that white dude who invested in privatised SOEs after the selling off of our assets in the eighties and made a ludicrous and disgusting amount of money and is...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • My insecurity about the Security Council
    As I write this (on 24 October) it is international UN Day. Of course, you all knew that already, right? Well, the day celebrates the entry into force of the UN Charter in 1945. With the ratification of this founding...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Catherine Delahunty – Back in That House
    Parliament opened this week and I still find it a very odd place. Most of the people are reasonably courteous and friendly, but the rituals are archaic and the rules around issues like the swearing in oath are oppressive and...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Marae Investigates No More
    TVNZ yesterday announced the closure of their Māori and Pacific programmes department. That means they’ve chosen to stop making Fresh, Tagata Pasifika, Waka Huia and Marae Investigates to let independent producers get their hands on these lucrative contracts. This is...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • BLOGWATCH: An Un-Civil War in Labour, eh?
    Earlier today, my attention was directed to an entry that’s just recently appeared on the Slightly Left of Centre blog. It purports to contain the ‘inside word’ from a highly placed NZF source – which is funny, because I’m pretty sure...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Santanomics 101
    Santanomics could mean a number of things. It could be the study and practice of giving. Or it could mean the study and practice of rampant end-of-year commercialism. However, for me today it is the economics of erectingAuckland’s giant Santa...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • SkyCity boss misleads public over workers lost shifts
    SkyCity CEO Nigel Morrison has defended the employment practices at his company in an “Opinion” piece entitled “Human Capital key to corporate success” in the NZ Herald on Thursday. A number of his claims are misleading, contain only partial truths...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Review: Perfect Place
    I went to a Perfect Place on Tuesday night, and what a delight it was. The marshmallows sweetly (and forcefully) handed out pre-show, set the tone for the next hour. Walking up the stairs at The Basement was a complete...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • 5AA Australia – NZ on UN Security Council + Dirty Politics Lingers On
    5AA Australia: Selwyn Manning and Peter Godfrey deliver their weekly bulletin Across The Ditch. General round up of over night talkback issues: Thongs, Jandals and flip-flops… ISSUE 1: New Zealand has been successful in its campaign to become a non...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • When I mean me, I mean my office & when I call whaleoil I mean not as m...
    This. Is. Ludicrous. Green Party co-leader Russel Norman put the first of what are likely to be many questions about Mr Key’s relationship with Slater, asking him how many times he had phoned or texted the blogger since 2008. “None...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • A brief word on describing the Government as ‘boring and bland’
    The narrative being sown is that this Government will be a boring and bland third term. Boring and bland. Since the election, Key has announced he is privatising 30% of state houses without reinvesting any of that money back into housing society’s most...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • More Latté Than Lager: Reflections on Grant Robertson’s Campaign Launch.
    BIKERS? SERIOUSLY! Had Grant Robertson’s campaign launch been organised by Phil Goff? Was this a pitch for the votes of what few Waitakere Men remain in the Labour Party? Was I even at the right place? Well, yes, I was....
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • About Curwen Ares Rolinson
    Curwen Ares Rolinson – Curwen Ares Rolinson is a firebrand young nationalist presently engaged in acts of political resistance deep behind enemy lines amidst the leafy boughs of Epsom. He is affiliated with the New Zealand First Party; although his...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kelly Ellis
    Kelly Ellis.Kelly Ellis – As a child, Kelly Ellis didn’t so much fall into the cracks, but willfully wriggled her way into them. Ejected from Onslow College – a big job in the 70s – Kelly worked in car factories,...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kate Davis
    Kate Davis.Kate Davis – Having completed her BA in English and Politics, Kate is now starting her MA. Kate works as a volunteer advocate at Auckland Action Against Poverty and previously worked for the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective. Kate writes...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Parker does a Shearer – oh for a Labour Leader who can challenge msm fals...
    Sigh. It seems David Parker has done a Shearer… Like a cult and too red – Parker on LabourLabour leadership contender David Parker says Labour borders on feeling like “a cult” and must look at its branding – including its...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • A brief word on the hundreds of millions NZ is spending on the secret intel...
    The enormity of the mass surveillance state NZ Government’s have built carries a huge price tag… Kiwis pay $103m ‘membership fee’ for spyingThe $103 million taxpayer funding of New Zealand’s intelligence agencies is effectively a membership fee for joining the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • CTU Runanga calls on iwi leaders
    Maori workers are calling on iwi leaders to speak out against the employment law changes expected to go through today. “Iwi leaders have previously spoken out when workers in Aotearoa have been under attack, we believe they should do so...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Educating children not the best solution to alcohol harm
    Alcohol Healthwatch says we need to look beyond educating children and young people to address deeply embedded attitudes and behaviours concerning alcohol....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • New code of welfare for rodeos released
    New standards to strengthen the animal welfare requirements for rodeos have been issued today by the Minister for Primary Industries, Nathan Guy....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • IPCA report riddle with inaccuracies, say students
    A report by the Independent Police Conduct Authority into the policing of student protests in 2012 is riddled with inaccuracies, say students who laid the original complaint with the IPCA....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • CT v The Queen – indecency convictions quashed
    This summary is provided to assist in the understanding of the Court’s judgment. It does not comprise part of the reasons for that judgment. The full judgment with reasons is the only authoritative document. The full text of the judgment...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Rameka v The Queen – murder convictions quashed
    This summary is provided to assist in the understanding of the Court’s judgment. It does not comprise part of the reasons for that judgment. The full judgment with reasons is the only authoritative document. The full text of the judgment...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Auckland Council Out of Control
    Responding to the NZ Herald article that some Auckland households will face a rates rise of up to 9.6 per cent next year, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “Len Brown’s pledge to cap rates rises at 2.5 per...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Stats NZ staff escalate action with ‘no more meetings’ rule
    Statistics NZ staff have voted to escalate their ongoing industrial action in an effort to get Stats NZ back to the bargaining table with a reasonable offer. The staff, who are members of the Public Service Association (PSA), have been...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Rape Crisis calls for changes to criminal justice system
    Wellington Rape Crisis has added its voice to the public outcry following the announcement that there will be no charges in the teen rape gang case. Butterworth says the decision not to lay charges will not have been a surprise...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Police action justified in Blockade the Budget demonstration
    Police actions in dealing with a demonstration in Central Auckland known as Blockade the Budget on 1 June 2012 were justified and appropriate, an Independent Police Conduct Authority report released today found....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • NZDF Joins with Australia to Commemorate WWI Centenary
    A contingent of New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel will join their Australian counterparts at Australia’s first major commemoration of the First World War centenary in Albany, Western Australia this weekend....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Reserve Bank should reduce interest rate
    “The Reserve Bank should be reducing its policy interest rate, the OCR”, says CTU Economist Bill Rosenberg in response to the Bank’s announcement today that it is not increasing it....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • 2015 Stout Fellow will write about Māori & Criminal Justice
    Kim Workman, founder and advocate for the Robson Hanan Trust, which administers the Rethinking Crime and Punishment and Justspeak initiatives, has been awarded the 2015 John David Stout Fellowship at Victoria University....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • What John Key thought about ‘dirty politics’
    On September 20, John Key swept to victory to become one of New Zealand’s most successful and popular Prime Ministers. Rocked by scandal, the 2014 election campaign was one of the most brutal – and riveting – in recent history....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Trade Deal Threatens Farmers and Food Businesses
    The secret Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations are a direct threat to food businesses and farmers, and a moratorium on the release of GE crops must be enshrined in law before the TPP is signed....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • CTU announces election of new Secretary
    The contested election for the position of CTU Secretary has been won by Sam Huggard. Sam officially takes office on Monday 1 December 2014. Sam has worked in the union movement and brings a wealth of experience and a commitment...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Kim Workman awarded 2015 J.D. Stout Fellowship
    The Victoria University of Wellington 2015 J.D. Stout Fellowship, funded by the Stout Trust, has been awarded to justice reform advocate Kim Workman. Mr Workman (Ngati Kahungungu ki Wairarapa, Rangitaane) is well known for his work on criminal justice,...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • TPPA causing concern
    Concern over the secretive Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) negotiations is being expressed in two public meetings over the next week; one at a presentation on 5th November by former councillor Robin Gwynn to the Napier City Council, the...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Kiwis rally to demand justice for ‘Roast Buster’ survivors
    Over 1,500 kiwis have rallied to demand justice after the announcement of the NZ Police decision not to lay charges in the ‘Roast Busters’ saga....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • New employment law will hurt the most vulnerable NZers
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says changes to the Employment Relations Act, expected to be passed in Parliament tonight, will hurt vulnerable workers and their families more than anyone....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Consultation to close on proposed place names
    The New Zealand Geographic Board (NZGB) Ngā Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa today advised that only one month remains before public consultation closes for 18 name proposals for geographic features and places around Te Ika ā Māui (the North Island)....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Operation Clover – Statement from Police Commissioner
    I have taken a close interest in this investigation and I am confident police have conducted a thorough and professional enquiry in what has been a challenging and complex case. The Operation Clover team has ensured that victims have been...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Better policy would have protected children from recession
    Child Poverty Action Group says an international report released by UNICEF today shows good policy can protect and improve child well-being, even during a recession....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Outcome of Operation Clover investigation
    Police have completed a multi-agency investigation, Operation Clover, into the activities of a group calling themselves “The Roast Busters”. The 12 month enquiry focused on incidents involving allegations of sexual offending against a number of girls...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • False birth registration brings home detention
    A Whangarei woman who attempted to register the birth of a fictitious child to claim a sole parent benefit was sentenced to six months home detention in the Whangarei District Court today....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Family of Robert Ellis demand a proper investigation
    The family of a New Zealander killed in Indonesia are growing increasingly concerned at the lack of information they’ve received, and the handling of the investigation into his murder....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Minister of Health must account for aged care workers’ pay
    The New Zealand Federation of Business and Professional Women (BPW NZ) congratulates rest-home worker Kristine Bartlett on her landmark claim for equal pay from her employer and successfully pursuing this to the Court of Appeal....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Labour leadership candidates in Invercargill
    The four candidates for Labour Leader – Andrew Little, Nanaia Mahuta, David Parker and Grant Robertson - will be in Invercargill on Friday evening for a Husting meeting with members, as part of fourteen Husting Meetings being held nationwide as...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Public now needs to have its say over new tolls
    “I welcome the likes of new tolls and fuel taxes going out for public consultation after these matters have been talked about for 20 years. However the timing is not ideal as it comes on top of the likes of...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Kiwis to fight back against TPPA ‘corporate trap’
    New Zealanders in at least sixteen different locations around the country are organising for an International Day of Action against the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) on 8 November, co-ordinated by It's Our Future NZ. This is part of an international...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Taxpayers’ Union Welcomes NZ First MP’s Resignation
    The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming NZ First MP, Clayton Mitchell’s resignation from the Tauranga City Council, despite Party Leader Winston Peters' public comments in July that Mr Mitchell would do both jobs if elected to Parliament. The Union's...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Stopping unnecessary roading projects solution to transport
    Today Auckland Council released the Funding Auckland’s Transport Future report which claims Aucklanders need to choose higher rates, petrol taxes or tolls to pay for future transport projects, when the real issue is the prioritisation of unnecessary...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Fixing Auckland’s transport
    Today marks a critical step in the most important funding debate Auckland has ever had: whether or not Aucklanders are willing to pay for the transport system this city desperately needs to keep it moving, says Mayor Len Brown....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • The New Zealand Gazette Moves into the Digital Age
    On Monday 20 October, the New Zealand Gazette was published completely online bringing to a close 173 years as a purely printed publication. First published in 1841 as the official government newspaper, the Gazette website gazette.govt.nz , replaces...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • International report shows NZ struggling with child poverty
    A report by UNICEF International shows that child poverty rates in New Zealand have scarcely changed since 2008 – this stands in contrast to a number of other countries that managed to significantly reduce child poverty in this time, including...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Labour leadership candidates in Dunedin
    The four candidates for Labour Leader – Andrew Little, Nanaia Mahuta, David Parker and Grant Robertson - will be in Dunedin on Thursday evening for a Husting meeting with members, as part of fourteen Husting Meetings being held nationwide as...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • UNICEF Report a Waste of Paper
    In response to the hysteria coming from the far left, Josh Forman of slightlyleftofcentre.co.nz writes the following:...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Press Council opens doors to digital media
    The New Zealand Press Council, the body which handles complaints against newspapers and magazines and their websites, is offering associate membership status to news and commentary-oriented digital media including bloggers....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Tolls Should Be for New Roads, Not Old Ones
    The Taxpayers’ Union is slamming Auckland Council for wanting to introduce a motorist tax under the guise of ‘tolls’. Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director, Jordan Williams, says:...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Media freedom in West Papua: Protest at Indonesian embassy
    Today, Wednesday 29 October, there will be a peaceful protest at the Indonesian Embassy in Wellington to call on new Indonesian President Joko Widodo to honour his election promise to ensure greater media freedom in West Papua....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Lack of leadership blamed for decline in Gender Equity
    BPW NZ challenges NZ’s lack of leadership with the decline in Gender Equity Ranking...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Richard Falk visit to NZ
    Professor Richard Falk, who recently completed a six-year term as United Nations Special Rapporteur on Palestinian human rights, will deliver a public lecture in Dunedin on Monday 10 November....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Apprehension for meat workers as employment law bill passes
    The passing of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill today will send a wave of apprehension through the workers in the NZ meat industry says the Meat Workers Union....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • “Yes to Children, No to Poverty” Says Commissioner
    Children’s Commissioner, Dr Russell Wills will describe impacts of poverty on children, with a focus on local solutions at the Tū Kaha biennial conference for Māori health for the central region DHBs at the Hawke’s Bay Racing Centre in Hastings...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • UNICEF report card highlights need for action
    Unicef’s child poverty report released today shows that New Zealand needs to be more proactive in pursuing policies to protect our most vulnerable members of society....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Children of the Recession: NZ’s shame
    Children of the Recession : NZ’s shame Media release Wednesday 29 October 2014 “It is to New Zealand’s deepest shame that the latest Unicef report on children living in poverty ranks us 16th out of 41 developed countries. “Every day...
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • UNICEF cautions NZ child poverty rates are “stagnating”
    An international report by UNICEF has found that child poverty rates in New Zealand have barely changed since 2008, despite similar sized countries significantly reducing child poverty during the recent recession....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • TPP Too Important for Compromised Finish
    The New Zealand dairy industry is urging Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) partners not to compromise on the quality of the deal to get it done quickly....
    Scoop politics | 28-10
  • Labour leadership candidates in Nelson
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  • History is made. Equal pay not just legal but possible!
    The New Zealand Nurses Organisation (NZNO) congratulates Kristine Bartlett and the Service and Food Workers Union: Ngā Ringa Tota on their historic win. Today the Court of Appeal dismissed an appeal from Kristine’s employer; opening the way for...
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