web analytics
The Standard

Trendy polls

Written By: - Date published: 7:21 am, June 11th, 2012 - 120 comments
Categories: polls - Tags: , , ,

No need to get too excited about polls, especially more than two years out from the election, but the last three have all been good for the Left.

The Roy Morgan on 18th May had National down 2.5% to 44.5%, Labour up 1.5% to 30% and The Greens unchanged at 15%.

The One News poll on 4th June had National down 4% to 47%, Labour up 4% to 33% and The Greens up 2% to 13%.

And yesterday the 3 News / Reid poll had National down 4% to 45.8%, Labour up 3.8 % to 33.2% and The Greens up 0.3% to 14.4%. The full results, courtesy of Curia, are:

National 45.8% (-4.0%)
Labour 33.2% (+3.8%)
Green 14.4% (+0.3%)
ACT 0.5% (+0.3%)
Maori 1.4% (-0.2%)
United Future 0.0% (nc)
Mana 0.3% (-0.6%)
NZ First 2.8% (+0.5%)
Conservative 1.1% (nc)

On Kiwiblog DPF tells the Nat faithful not to panic, it’s the trend that matters.  But with the last three polls all leaking support from National the recent trend is pretty robust.  Good for the Left!

I’d like to be able to point you at some running averages for a proper look at what’s going on, but Pundit’s poll of polls is stuck on 30th of April, and Curia’s is frozen eight days earlier than that.  Not that I like to complain about folk who provide information on the interwebs for free (I know how annoying that can be!), but a month is a long time in politics folks, and the current figures have moved on…

120 comments on “Trendy polls”

  1. The Dim Post has a compilation of polling results and have graphed a trend.  Latest result is here.  The trend is unmistakable.

    Farrar is really spinning things by suggesting the worst is over.  Support does not switch immediately.  Many Kiwis tend to have a think about things before declaring a change.

    • Ben Clark 1.1

      The updated (and permanent) one is here.
      (Not incredibly different, but will change as new polls come in).

      • Ben Clark 1.1.1

        There’s also a more recent Morgan Poll (30 May).
        National down 0.5%, Labour up 0.5% – no great change, but more trend confirming.

        Probably more interesting is the “Government Confidence Rating” – which has fallen sharply in teh last 2-3 months to be at a similar level to just before the 2008 election…

  2. The trends are certainly there – in poll results and National stuff ups. It’s time for National to openly address issues and regain confidence, or it’s going to be a hard couple of years.

    Farrar is right to an extent, one poll taken before the fix-up is not calamatous, but the overall signs are starting to look shaky.

    National slipping up, sliding down.

    • Um Pete the stuff ups do not help but the basic problem is that the whole premise of this National Government, that it was going tobe Helen Clark’s Labour Government but without the lightbulb ban and with a tax cut, has shown to be a lie.

      This is another typical small minded vicious doctrinaire support our mates National Government and this is becoming increasing clear. Unless it backs off asset sales it is terminal.

      You should put your considerable output towards saving UF. It is currently polling 0.0%. Lecturing the left on what it is doing wrong is kinda weird given the abject failure that is United Future.

      • Rob 2.1.1

        No one wanted another Helen Clark government, thinking they did means you have learnt nothing.

        • mickysavage 2.1.1.1

          Yeah Rob some people were really bitter about being forced to use efficient light bulbs.  Interestingly the same people are totally indifferent to the thought of eugenics, probably because this is only for poor people.

        • Dr Terry 2.1.1.2

          So sorry to disappoint you Rob – I wanted a Helen Clark government, which means I have upset your doctrinaire statement (even if I am the only one, which I very much doubt). I suspect that what you mean is that YOU did not want her government. Take care over spurious generalisations like this.

          • Olwyn 2.1.1.2.1

            + Dr Terry. In the 2008 election, after almost three years of relentless battering by right wing press acolytes, and a vicious oxygen-sucking attack on Peters that coincided with the campaign, Labour got 34% of the vote. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think Labour have polled so high since. Helen Clark’s government lasted for nine years, and was not an unpopular government overall. In fact, she continued to feature in the preferred PM polls for years after she went to work for the UN, and the right seem to remain a bit scared of her, given the “phone call from New York” meme that they continue to trot out.

          • Vicky32 2.1.1.2.2

            I wanted a Helen Clark government………………………(even if I am the only one, which I very much doubt).

            There is at least one other, that is, me, and I am sure we two are not the only ones!

            • Jilly Bee 2.1.1.2.2.1

              Me too.

              • Rob

                Yeah , lets bring back Judith Kirk , the guy from Te Atatu and the dude in prison, yeah. That was all great stuff. 

                • felix

                  You actually make mickysavage’s point for him here Rob, although I don’t expect you realise it.

                  Key in ’08 campaigned on a change of face, not a change in policy.

        • mike 2.1.1.3

          Rob said ‘no one wanted another Helen Clark government. I wanted another Helen Clark government and so did the hundreds of thousands of other New Zealanders who voted for it. You may be a ‘no one’ Rob, but don’t judge everyone by your own airhead standards

      • Pete George 2.1.2

        The future of the country is probably going to be far more reliant on “the left” – Labour (which is more centre than left) and Greens, than it is in UF, hence my interest in what they are doing and what they may do. I’ve voted more for them in the past than for UF.

        Or are you suggesting that anyone how doesn’t show current subservience to a party shouldn’t comment on that party? Can you please clarify what you mean.

        • bbfloyd 2.1.2.1

          reading from the reactionary conservative playbook again pete….. you are getting boringly predictable….

          never mind… keep it up…. at least i can have some fun lampooning you……which is all that comment was good for….

  3. ScottGN 3

    The other delightful trend of course is the increasing likelihood that the Member for Ohariu will be totally irrelevant to the outcome of the next election.

    • Dunne increased his Ohariu majority last election. And he is more relevant in the current term Government than the last.

      Does that delight you?

      • Jackal 3.1.1

        I think what ScottGN is hinting at is the fact that the recent poll results and projected seats are based on no change in electorate seats. However a change in the party vote will also be reflected in the electorate vote. This will change the seat allocation considerably.

        UnitedFuture just polled 0% again and it’s unlikely that Peter Dunne will retain Ohariu, who won by only 1,392 votes. Another five seats were won by the Nats over Labour by less than this margin (by 9 votes for Balls-up Benefits). If we take the percentage shift and apply it to the amount of electorate votes, Labour would win all of these seats.

        National 52
        Labour 48
        Green 18
        ACT 1
        Maori 3
        Mana 1
        Total 123

        However the trend is showing NZF will also be in the picture @ 7.8% which would give them around 10 seats. It could be that Labour NZF form a coalition and leave the Greens out in the cold again. So although the trend is good, personally I’m not celebrating anything yet.

        • weka 3.1.1.1

          ” It could be that Labour NZF form a coalition and leave the Greens out in the cold again”
           
          That concerns me too. It would be really stupid of Labour though.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1

            But, going on past performance, probable.

            • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Sad really. Still it would be good for the Greens eventually, assuming they can keep their eye on the long game.

              • Colonial Viper

                If Labour want to govern for 3 terms, they need to bring the Greens onboard from term 1.

                • weka

                  Yep.

                • Bob

                  If Labour want to govern for more than ONE term they would be best to stay as far away from the Greens as possible! Have you seen what the Greens have done to the Labor Government in Australia?!?

                  • Murray Olsen

                    Yeah I have. They’ve given it some backbone.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Nope, they need to get closer to the Greens and start acting like a party of the left rather than a party of the right.

          • felix 3.1.1.1.2

            People will vote for Winston if they think Labour/Green can’t make it.

            Up to Labour and the Greens to make sure Winston isn’t needed really.

            • jack 3.1.1.1.2.1

              I’m voting Winston in the hopes that Labour and Winston do form a coalition. Both are center , Winston being more to the right. A lot will determine what Shearer does in these two years. He got off to a weak start but it was National who screwed up (thank God, they’re true colours are starting to show). I think the Greens are too far to the left especially with a recession. Last thing we need are tax increases with the exception of the top 10 percent income earners. I like what Winston says about the ETS.. it’s a wall street gimick to make money.

          • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1.3

            “That concerns me too. It would be really stupid of Labour though.”

            Labour are forced to play the hand they’re dealt. If the choice is make a coalition with NZF, or see NZF go with National, what would you prefer?

            • Matthew Hooton 3.1.1.1.3.1

              If I may, I would like to answer that question put another way. If I were ever asked whether I would prefer National deal with NZ1 or see NZ1 deal with Labour instead, I would always choose the latter. Not only is giving that man political power unconscionable, any government he is part of will always fail politically and do reputational harm to the larger party for many years. Just ask Jim Bolger and Helen Clark.

              • Pascal's bookie

                I’d like to see the argument that it was Peters who damaged National’s reputation post Bolger fleshed out a bit.

              • ad

                +1 to that. Peters resigning over the Wellington airport sale was consistent with his positioning at that time. But going with Bolger instead of Clark – that’s a disgrace that none should forget.

              • Populuxe1

                Really, Matthew? Because if you ask Jim he’d probably tell you it was Jenny’as Brutus, not Winston, who brought down the Fourth National Government, and as for Helen, the reality is that 2008 was pretty much the end of the natural life cycle of her government – much as I liked it, it jumped the shark eventually. Winston had very little to do with that.

                • Populuxe1

                  Does the fact that Matthew Hooton has been banned from the Beehive precinct indicate that, if anything, giving political power to THAT man is unconscionable, as he has a tendency to fail in ways that leave the main party scrabbling for damage control for years…?

            • weka 3.1.1.1.3.2

              Lanth, I would prefer that Labour had the guts to stand on the left and remember who its natural allies really are. If anyone in Labour still thinks that that is Peters, then god help us.
               
              But the point wasn’t what if NZF could choose between Labour or National, it was if Labour could choose between the Greens and NZF. If they choose Peters again under those conditions then they deserve to lose even more of their constituency than they already have. And more power the Greens in the long term, although it would be very bad for NZ.

              • Te Reo Putake

                There are al sorts of ‘if’s’ in there, Weka. First, the Greens have to want to be in Government. They seem to be saying they do. Secondly, the other potential coalition partners have to want be in the same waka. Last time, Winston (and UF?) refused to have the Greens.
                 
                Thirdly, Labour have to be convinced to have the Greens on board. They might prefer the easy option of having NZF in Gov’t, the Greens outside, but supporting on C&S, because Winston’s demands will be a lot simpler (mainly a cabinet spot for both WP and Andrew Williams and a couple of policy points).
                 
                The Greens, on the other hand, would be expecting a few senior ministerial roles, the adoption of a lot of their policy. Labour know that even if they reject the Greens, they pretty much have to support a Labour led Government (as does Hone). The alternative is to either stay neutral or join up with National and end up like the Lib Dems in the UK.

                • weka

                  I think Tariana Turia also refused to work with Helen Clark.
                   
                  All good points TRP. But of course look what has happened to Labour since then. I think as the Greens go more mainstream, and the world gets scarier, more people are going to be voting Green. A chunk of that vote will come from Labour. If Labour screws the Greens again, I think that will accelerate the shift. There will be people who will keep voting Labour if they think the Greens are going to be part of the picture, but who will go to the Greens if they aren’t given their due.
                   
                  It’s time to get past the big major party supported by very small parties MMP model (a facsimile of FFP in some ways) and move onto co-operative politics. The sooner Labour gets to grips with the fact that the Greens are going to be major players the better for all of us.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    I’ve been advocating for ages that Labour/Greens/Winston should come to a pre-election understanding on areas of common interest. That wouldn’t be a guarantee of the 3 forming all being in the Government, but if they could go to the public and say ‘a vote for any of NZF, Greens or the LP is a vote to save assets, strengthen KS and keep Kiwi workers working in NZ” (or similar planks), then you have the basis for your coalition right there, and you are getting a mandate for that Government and those policies at the election.
                     
                    Still leaves plenty of room to push other policies, as suits each party, but the fundamentals are there and you send a strong message that all 3 parties are ready to work together for the things that matter most.

                    • weka

                      That would be good for Labour and the Greens for sure. Won’t work with NZF though. Peters has already demonstrated that he is quite capable of betraying his constituency. It’s beyond me why anyone still trusts him. At least he does have the honesty to now say that he won’t commit to who he will go with pre-election.

        • Pete George 3.1.1.2

          If we take the percentage shift and apply it to the amount of electorate votes, Labour would win all of these seats.

          Except that percentage shifts never apply evenly across eelctorates. If you want to bet on trends then you might wager on a National win in Dunedin South.

          Epsom has kept defying trends and polls.

          There’s a lot that will happen between now and the November 2014, so it’s impossible to predict what will happen to Ohariu, Epsom and Maori seats.

          Dunne increased his Ohariu majority last year. That isn’t a trend, it’s a reversal of the previous election shrink. What happens next time will depend on:
          – the perception of Dunne’s performance this term
          – if National are punished whether Dunne will suffer with them or benefit
          – whether Dunne stands
          – who stands for Labour
          – who stands for National

          Selective number crunching now means little.

          • Lanthanide 3.1.1.2.1

            “so it’s impossible to predict what will happen to Ohariu, Epsom and Maori seats.”

            It’s never impossible to make a prediction.

            • McFlock 3.1.1.2.1.1

              But that would involve pete showing his true leanings, rather than waffling banalities. That might be the impossible bit.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.3

          This will change the seat allocation considerably.

          Not sure I get your point. In MMP doesn’t your number of seats simply match your party vote?

          And that is regardless of which electorates you specifically win, and the balance between the number of electorate and list seats your party finishes with.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.3.1

            In MMP doesn’t your number of seats simply match your party vote?

            Yes and no. Yes in that if you get lots of party votes the proportion of seats is greater than the number of electorate seats you won. No if the number of party votes entitles you to less than the number of electorate seats that you won.

            There’s also the fact that you can have significant votes but still not get any seats due to not winning any electorates and not getting over the threshold.

      • mike e 3.1.2

        pg on a lower turn out not like your 161 votes

      • lprent 3.1.3

        I believe the vote got split more evenly between National and Labour.

        In 2008 the Labour/Nat vote was just under 21k and your mate got a bit over 14k out of a vote of just under 38k.

        In 2011 the Labour/Nat vote was just over 21k with National doing better than 2011 and Labour doing a bit worse. Your mate dropped to a bit over 12k and lost almost 2k votes. That was despite the total vote increasing to just over 38k. This means that less than a third of the electorate voted for him.

        It wasn’t that he increased his vote – that has been diminishing each election like a dissipating Hawking quantum black hole.. It was that the differerence between National and Labour diminished, so that rather than having a single strong opponent he now has two hyenas squabbling over his scrawny carcasse.

        Have you been taking lessons from the Blingish school of dodgy self-serving and cherry picked numbers? Or is it just wishful thinking…

  4. Te Reo Putake 4

    Doing some calculations on the Electoral Office’s seat predictor after the last Roy Morgan, one thing really stood out. Labour need to take at least one seat off the Maori party to make the outcome certain. If the MP are reduced to 2 seats, then National only have 4 extra votes to back them (assuming there is still an NZF, ACT and UF presence).
     
    National need at least 45-46% to get to 61 seats, without the 3rd MP seat. Labour, however, could be able to form a simple minority coalition with the Greens at that point or an even smaller coalition with NZF, with Greens backing on C&S. 
     
    If the MP back Labour in a tight race, then National are completely in the wilderness. I would assume UF would also come crawling at that stage too, so a rout would be on the cards.
     
     
     
     

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples are now thinking about not retiring. Probably because they know that both NACT’s and MP’s only chance is if they stay in. Hopefully the people who vote MP will have woken up to the fact that the MP is a solid National support party by the next election.

  5. Rob Salmond 5

    I’ll have something for you tomorrow.

    • r0b 5.1

      Don’t feel compelled on my behalf! You’re doing it in your “spare” time, like the rest of us. But I am glad to hear that the Pundit PoP will be back…

  6. cin77 6

    The election is a couple of years away though, do the polls at this point really mean anything?

    • lprent 6.1

      This far out, individual polls are irrelevant (and I’d argue that small sample phone polls are never relevant at any time – tealeaves are a more accurate methodology).

      However trends in polls are relevant especially when they show people deciding against a government to the point that you get a strong trend. It may not be accurate but it shows a shift in political sentiment.

      Trends are reversible, but once started they tend to be very hard to shift. People en-mass tend to carry a lot of inertia.

    • Ed 6.2

      Not a lot on the results of the next election, although long term trends may indicate or cause movement in public perception. In the shorter term however we see from ?McCully? that National makes decisions based on polling
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/budget-2012/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503257&objectid=10811744

      With asset sales being unpopular even with many National voters, it is another decision where National have made only a vague case for any benefits arising from the sales, although a difference is that with the sales there have been a few consultants and merchant banks make some money from it already, and those wanting to buy are looking for a sale at a low price to make sure all the shares available are sold, and for electricity prices to then increase to give a good return to shareholders. If their polling shows however that this would be another large hit to support they may go slower on the process – which makes getting signatures on a petition important to those against the sales. National may feel they cannot afford to have yet another clear example of not listening to voters . . .

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.2.1

        The core service the National Party provides to its clients is wealth and resource transfer. These asset sales have been bought and paid for, failure to deliver them would seriously affect the party’s ability to raise money.

        • Pete George 6.2.1.1

          These asset sales have been bought and paid for

          You must have evidence to make a serious allegation like that. Specifics please.

          • McFlock 6.2.1.1.1

            National’s donor returns…

            • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1.1.1

              PG is funny; didn’t he get the memo that the investment banks and PR firms are benefitting to the tune of $120M (and likely much more) from the sale of our assets?

              • CV is funny, didn’t he get the memo that many businesses and organisations “benefit” from the government paying for their services, and they don’t all give donations to the government.

                And there’s no evidence that any donate to National and get a direct return of financial favours.

                • McFlock

                  True.
                  It’s all just a massive coincidence that national’s policies benefit its wealthy donors.  

                • Colonial Viper

                  PG – investment bankers and PR firms are benefitting to the tune of $120M. That’s a very tight knit and selective group that National, and Key personally, have close and ongoing ties to.

                  Choose to ignore it if you wish, but the cronyism is obvious.

                • KJT

                  They do not have to donate to Government.

                  Key and co will be paid the bribes after they leave Government. Just like US politicians.

                  With million dollar “jobs” in banking etc.

                  Ensuring their retirement income while thieving ours.

    • Dr Terry 6.3

      cin77, you have a point here. Given National’s stuff ups since the election one might have expected a bigger decline than, thus far, is the case. I am sure that Key will have “built in” this factor, and be delighted to get off this lightly. I would advise caution about overly optimistic predictions at this early time.

      • Jackal 6.3.1

        Hm! Key hasn’t “built in this factor” because things like the student/teacher ratio backdown (which none of the polls reflect yet) are not predetermined. The ACC scandal was also not something Key could factor in.

        Although the reduced support from unpopular asset sales is something that would have been realized by National, they’re simply willing to damage the party so them and their rich mates can make even more money from the public. That’s the kind of factoring in no party needs.

  7. Carol 7

    And oh, how the frequent polling and reporting on party popularity influences the outcomes!!!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10812139

    Maori Party co-leaders Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples have revealed they are reconsidering retiring from politics next election – just as a new poll shows them potentially holding the balance of power.

    Mrs Turia and Dr Sharples had indicated that the 2011 election would be their last.

    But they are reconsidering after being asked repeatedly by supporters, a party official said.

    Mrs Turia, 68, confirmed that last night on Prime News.

    “It may well be that we stand at the next election but … we are still working those issues through,” she said.

    And Dr Sharples, 70, also confirmed a rethink. “I’m giving that real consideration,” he told the channel from China, where he is leading a Maori business delegation.

  8. Sanctuary 8

    I was surprised at how blithely Duncan Garner dismissed NZ First making it over the threshold whilst assuming ACT, United Future and the Maori party will all still be around or significantly relevant after the next election. If instead of simply swallowing Garner’s bias that only the variables you assume remain constant from 2011 are the ones you want to, and assume ALL the variables still apply then it gets really interesting.

    Then the Lab+Green+Maori+Mana vote comes in at 57-59 seats and Nat+ACT+UF comes in at 56-58 seats with Winston and NZ First on 6 seats.

    • felix 8.1

      “I was surprised at how blithely Duncan Garner dismissed NZ First making it over the threshold whilst assuming ACT, United Future and the Maori party will all still be around or significantly relevant after the next election.”

      The 5% threshold isn’t relevant to ACT, United Future or the maori Party. All of their seats are electorate seats.

    • Pete 8.2

      That’s just the way MMP works. NZF doesn’t have an constituency seat lifeboat and it’s unlikely that Peters will win a seat in 2014. He has to get 5%. Act will likely survive through another nod and wink deal with the Nats for a seat and the Maori Party typically win more constituency seats than their total party vote would otherwise mandate – hence the overhang in parliament and the need for 62 seats to form a government, rather than 61.

    • ianmac 8.3

      Remember Sanctuary, that Duncan Garner has an unprofessional hatred of NZF and especially of Winston Peters. If NZF was riding on 20% Duncan would still be saying NZF was out of the picture. I much rather prefer the measured responses from Brent Edwards.

  9. ianmac 9

    The real thing about downward trends is that it puts doubt in the minds of those who take a superficial interests in politics. Suggests that His feet are made of clay.
    “Pass me the sugar please. National and Key are sliding I hear. Mmm. The bus was late again today….”

  10. vto 10

    I suspect that this reasonably quick drop will continue. It is like the class size dispute has taken the scab off all those other issues. That the emperor has no clothes has finally been noticed. The genie is out of the bottle.

    Perhaps they will be headed for a terrible rout at the next election and Key will go down as one of our least accomplished PMs.

    • Jackal 10.1

      Key is already one of our least accomplished PMs.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1

        Depends upon how you measure it. In terms of doing right for NZ then he’s the least accomplished, in terms of giving NZs wealth to the rich he’s done quite well.

  11. Dr Terry 11

    vto, what a delightful dream; let’s wait now to see whether or not good dreams come true!

  12. Sanctuary 12

    National’s problem is a simple one. After a first term of doing nothing except feed the trolls, they’ve discovering their policy program of warmed over Shipleyism is no more popular in 2012 than it was in 1999, even if John Key is a better used car saleman than Jenny Shipley ever was.

    • Murray Olsen 12.1

      I’d say Key is more of a car thief. He steals your car (assets) then pretends to sell it back to you.

  13. duncan garner 13

    Ianmac

    What a wildy inaccurate statement to say I have an “unprofessional hatred of NZ First and Winston.” I’ve known and reported on Winston now for more than 15 years and while we have had our battles to say I have an unprofessional hatred of him and his party shows only one thing .. that you live on another planet, yet to be discovered. Saying NO when he meant YES caused the media to have “trust issues” with Winston – I think that is obvious. And surely you’re not defending him on that are you?

    I happen to think Peters will be back next time and for some reason all the polls once again aren’t picking him up. I can’t make my poll up – but I do have to report the results as they come in. But Felix got it right, some parties hold seats and get in for that reason, others like NZ First don’t and therefore when they slip below the threshold fall out of the reckoning. But I happen to believe he will be back in 2 and a half years time.

    Watch your wild statements Ianmac – or at least make them have a half a spec of credibility as we try to reach you on that far flung planet.

    Cheers
    Duncan

    • Matthew Hooton 13.1

      Duncan – I want to know why you don’t have an “unprofessional hatred of NZ First and Winston”? You should. Its the only rational and ethical attitude towards him and his “party”.

    • gobsmacked 13.2

      Hi Duncan

      Do you have any idea why 2-3% of people pick Winston for preferred PM, and then not NZ First for the party vote? The former always outscores the latter, in successive polls – it’s strange.

      • Matthew Hooton 13.2.1

        gobsmacked – my hypothesis on that is that a big chunk of his bewildered and deranged supporters don’t know the name of his party. So they say they back him but don’t know to say they support NZ First. At election time, most of his advertising is about linking his name to NZ First so that his supporters will remember the name of the party when they vote. I am not sure how this hypothesis could be tested though.

        • Lanthanide 13.2.1.1

          He should rename the party to Winston Peter’s NZ First, like Jim Anderton’s Progressives.

        • felix 13.2.1.2

          “At election time, most of his advertising is about linking his name to NZ First so that his supporters will remember the name of the party when they vote.”

          Hmm, a bit like John Key then. Although he’s regretting it now, what with National tarnishing his reputation and dragging him down in the polls…

    • Who would have thought that a “wildy inaccurate statement” would be made here? Without anything to back it up. And unchallenged by regular commenters.

      What sort of standard is this?

      [Pete – remember a while back and the overwhelming complaints about your behaviour? I said I’d be looking out for comments from you that have no content and are just for petty point scoring? This is a perfect example. Please lift your game. — r0b]

      • McFlock 13.3.1

        more to the point, who would have thought that a politician telling an untruth to the media would cause “trust issues”? 
               
        Maybe the media would go easier on Winston if the sign had said “dinnamik inviramin, 170,000 more jobs”. 

      • Pete George 13.3.2

        r0b: You’re telling me to “lift my game” while letting others get away with any sort of unsubstantiated accusations they want to make? Does “lifting my game” mean I can do the same thing? Or am I on separate rules here?

        I don’t see you asking the frequent nil content petty point scoring commenters aiming at me being asked to lift their game.

        I suggest that those making “overwhelming complaints” often display worse behaviour than I do. Is that the sort of behaviour you want to encourage here?

        • r0b 13.3.2.1

          Pete, you comment here a lot. Most of it is a good, but a fair chunk of it (like 13.3) is drivel. Because you comment so much you have stood out and been noticed, and lots of people have complained about you. When that happens we ask the offender (you) to have a think about their style.

          It has happened in the past to others, it will happen in the future to others. I’m not picking on you, I’m trying to moderate a certain style and volume of commenting that messes up the blog.

          • Pete George 13.3.2.1.1

            I often think about my style and content, and usually stick to the guidelines that I’ve been given.

            Have you noticed that the volume of my comments is nothing out of the ordinary (compared to other regulars) when I’m not being attacked by others with far messier styles than I use. I think I abide by the rules here more consistently than many others.

            An observation – you say you’re “not picking on” me, but you call me the offender, and I don’t see others being asked to think about their style.

            • mac1 13.3.2.1.1.1

              Hmmm…. I’ve offered twice recently to engage with you, Pete George, over your use of the word ‘cacophony’ to describe the successful opposition to increasing class sizes. You have chosen not to reply. I say accordingly that you are in the habit of dropping in contentious statements but not staying around to defend them. That eventually means you are not worth engaging with. You will have to be judged accordingly by what you write but also by what you choose to not defend.

              • I most often try and return engagement, but it’s easy to get sidetracked and miss things, especially when there is a lot of cacophony around my comments. I do deliberately try to avoid some awkward questions but rarely.

                I accept “cacophony” was a contentious term to use regarding class sizes, but that’s how I heard the initial noise around the class size debate. As the panel on The Nation said on Saturday, it took a while to sort through that noise and work out there was more substance to it than the usual “cry wolf” opposition.

                It wasn’t until the cacophony subsided that the effective opposition kicked in.

                • Bob

                  Don’t worry Pete, it’s just more ‘Nanny state’ tactics of the left to shut down anything that doesn’t conform to their way of thinking. Take it on the chin and move on.

        • felix 13.3.2.2

          “I think I abide by the rules here more consistently than many others.”

          Lolz Pete, most of us get a warning now and then when we overstep the mark. As Darryl Kerrigan says “But it’s what you do with it”.

          It’s not a big deal. Most of us respond by apologising, taking note of the warning and modifying our behaviour.

          Your response to being warned for content-free comments, on the other hand, is three more essentially content-free comments complaining about the warning.

          Just something to think about.

          • Pete George 13.3.2.2.1

            No more content free that some of your posts, even some in this very topic.

            I’ll apologise and acknowledge I’ve overstepped when I know I have. You’re right, it’s not a big deal – I’ve done that before for a fair cop. But when all I have done is a mild version of what is commonly done here I don’t see a need to.

            Interesting that you suggest it’s inappropriate to speak up for yourself. Should one just sheepishly modify their behaviour to avoid anyone complaining despite one often seeing others doing worse? Just something to think about.

      • mike e 13.3.3

        pg free tips time for a cup of tea their boy

    • Blue 13.4

      It’s a rather idiotic thing for a political journalist to say that they have ‘trust issues’ with a politician, Duncan.

      You are not meant to ‘trust’ any of them. It is your job to doubt and to question everything a politician tells you. If the public were meant to ‘trust’ them then we wouldn’t need you.

    • ianmac 13.5

      Note Duncan that I have never voted for NZF. My observation revolves around what I would call as unprofessional, your behaviour around the 2008 election when in Winston’s absence you went ballistic during that Panel discussion. That is one occasion. The importance of remembering that event is as valid as remembering the NO saga after all this time. There have been numerous “NO” times in recent politics (Think Banks, Collins, Parata, Key) which you choose to gloss over.

      If we are to gain anything from Political commentators then enthusiasm for your craft is good. Significant bias destroys credibility. Where do you fit?

    • js 13.6

      I am no longer surprised at the affection for Winston Peters which turned into votes from many of my usually staunch left feminist friends. Once they reach gold card age he seems to somehow speak to them personally.

  14. tracey 14

    How can any journalist have trust issues with wp but not with jk and many of his mps?

    • ianmac 14.1

      Oops. Just spotted your bit Tracey. Your one line says what I took many to say. Cheers.

  15. AnnaLiviaPluraBella 15

    National are down a few points and Labour has not budged since the loss in 2008. Do not use 2011 as a benchmark. And the Preferred Leader picture is not attractive.

    Hold-off on the sparkling white wine. Winning a few skirmishes with the Nats is not hard. They have been self-inflicted.

    What we need is a winning narrative that shows the people of New Zealand, and the ever increasing Diaspora, that we understand our surroundings and the context on their behalf.
    We need a narrative that shows we understand the threats and opportunities as well at the strengths and weaknesses.
    We need more of the thinking that acknowledges we have dumped the flawed policies of the past, and that we have learned from them.
    The non-voting, the departing and the defecting are not hearing that from Labour. We have to hear it soon.

    • Red Rosa 15.1

      Well said. There has to be a positive message developed, and soon.

      The Labour Party has always rescued NZ from the wreckage of right-wing policies, and that includes Muldoon.. condemned of course now as a socialist now by the Nats….;)

      So how to communicate this to the 30% who didn’t vote last time? Notably the younger voters? Many of us recall the Shipley-Richardson era, and the resulting heave-ho.

      Can this thumping result be repeated, 20 years on?

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1

        The Labour Party has always rescued NZ from the wreckage of right-wing policies, and that includes Muldoon..

        The problem was with the way that they saved us as it really was a case of jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Now we have to get out of the fire and not back into the frying pan.

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.2

        The Labour Party has always rescued NZ from the wreckage of right-wing policies, and that includes Muldoon.. condemned of course now as a socialist now by the Nats….;)

        You are incorrect. Or at least, imprecise.

        It was a Labour Government which introduced free market neoliberalism to NZ. Regardless of “Left” or “Right” monikers, that single move has been the most damaging to society in NZ history.

        That was also the period where the Labour Party gutted itself, and it has never recovered.

  16. ad 16

    +1.
    I gues to help define that perilous word “narrative” for New Zealand, it’s
    – A way of describing the country that many can assent to and feel like they have a place in
    – An axiomatic shift from “what is” to “what should be”
    – A way of explaining complex factors upon the country into simple and more integrated factors
    – The refining of a common sense and with it a common purpose

    For my personal preference, one that is stronger on basic abstract nouns like hope and aspiration as distinct from crisis, anomie, and doom. Without going all Obama Chigago 2009 on us.

    Takes a pretty skilled politician to pull it off without going all sickly patriotic, so subtlety is vital. But we all know it when we feel it.

  17. Foreign Waka 17

    What I really miss is a decisive message from Labour what their plan is for each of these major portfolios. Do they have one other than raising the age of retirement? Not that National has come up with something productive (asset sales it is not). But where are the ideas that will show what Labour actually stands for? The only real alternative inclusive of ideas so far has come from the greens.

    • Murray Olsen 17.1

      I’ve got the same problem with Labour. I have no idea what they stand for, apart from not being National. If I’m still alive at the next election, I’ll be voting Mana if they stand in my electorate, otherwise Greens and Mana can have my party vote. Even though I’d vote for them, I don’t think the situation we are in can be fixed within capitalism, but at least Mana have a bit of the mongrel in them that will be necessary for the struggle ahead. Also, while it’s not the central issue, I do hope they change to a better position on marriage for anyone that wants it.

    • BillODrees 17.2

      #foreignwaka
      Labour has the answers but not the voice. The answers are in it’s history and it’s people.  They have an excellent policy machine (bright people). It now needs to focus on the future of New Zealanders. It needs to free itself from the shackles of the past strategies.
       The next phase of New Zealand history will not be defined by games inside the Wellington Beltway. The “clever insiders” have failed.

      I agree with you and the previous writers that we now need someone who can deliver a decisive message.

       Someone in Labour needs to focus on 5 years and 10 years out.  When we own the future vision our people will come back: back to the polling booth from the couch or garden on election day, back from the Gold Coast, back from the Greens/Mana/Maori. 

  18. r0b 18

    Great to see the Pundit poll of polls up to date again – check it out.

  19. Carol 19

    Rod Salmond’s poll of polls update is now on Pundit, with a post about it from Salmond:

    http://www.pundit.co.nz/

    http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/trend-left-turn

    At the election, the gap between the right (NACT) and left (L+G) was around 11%. We estimate the gap today at around 2%, and some of the polls are even starting to show the potential left coalition ahead.

    Almost all the estimates show that if the next election were held now, there would be no clear winner on the night. This is the number that shows up the claims that National really hasn’t too much to worry about because its support is unchanged from election day. Maybe so, but everybody else’s support has shifted around, and National’s opponents look more formidable now than last November.

    As I noted at the start of 2011, you don’t want to extrapolate this kind of trend far into the future.
    […]
    This is not to say the Opposition can sleep walk to victory. Far from it. Governments do not fall over on their own.
    [..]
    Current polling trends suggest the election will be close, but I expect the advantage will lie with the left.

    It is now up to National to find a circuit breaker, a position John Key is not accustomed to.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Green Aoraki Newsletter September 2015
    Attachmentsseptember2015_web.pdf - 2.64 MB ...
    12 hours ago
  • Rough-Shod Approach to Iwi Housing
      "The Governments rough-shod approach to social housing in Auckland has forced the Minister to clarify and uphold his Treaty Settlement obligations to Ngati Whatua and Waikato-Tainui," says Labours Maori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta.   “While it's a positive undertaking… ...
    17 hours ago
  • More housing humiliation for Nick Smith
    Nick Smith has been completely humiliated once again – this time by Ngāti Whātua who have used his blunders to their full advantage to extract an excellent deal for Aucklanders that the minister would never have developed himself, Labour’s Housing… ...
    18 hours ago
  • PM must stop making excuses for offensive MP
    John Key must stop dismissing the highly offensive behaviour of his Pakuranga MP Maurice Williamson and publically reprimand him, Labour’s spokesperson for Woman Sue Moroney says. “Maurice Williamson’s behaviour at an Eagle Technology dinner was completely unacceptable. ...
    19 hours ago
  • Charter application skew assists rich American
    The Government has skewed the latest round of charter school applications to assist an American millionaire’s goal of ‘revolutionising” New Zealand’s education system, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. ACT Leader David Seymour and Ngāi Tahu’s Sir Mark Solomon in… ...
    20 hours ago
  • Key’s refugee response at odds with Kiwi traditions
    John Key’s response to the current refugee crisis is out of step with New Zealand’s tradition of pulling its weight internationally, says Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer. “In 1999, under a National Government, New Zealand accepted more than 400… ...
    22 hours ago
  • Coromandel rallies against the TPPA
    On Wednesday, John Key visited the southern Coromandel area with local National MP Scott Simpson and was challenged by citizens who spontaneously organised protests against the Government position on the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA). I went down to Waihi… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    22 hours ago
  • John Key: where is your conscience?
    The Prime Minister’s refusal to raise the refugee quota in the face of an international humanitarian crisis shows a lack of empathy and moral leadership, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “There are times in politics when you are faced with… ...
    23 hours ago
  • Report highlights National’s poor funding decisions
    The Government’s poor coordination between its transport strategy and the needs of the regions has been highlighted in a new report by Local Government New Zealand, Labour’s Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Local Government was forced to write its Mobilising… ...
    2 days ago
  • Government wakes up to Opotiki Harbour
    John Key is expected to finally announce Government support next week for the Opotiki Harbour development, says Labour Economic Development spokesperson David Clark. "While it is astonishing that it has taken seven years for the Government to commit to this… ...
    2 days ago
  • New figures show speculators rampant
    New figures released by the Reserve Bank show there’s been an explosion in mortgage lending with most of the growth going to property investors, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. Reserve Bank data shows mortgage lending was up 6 per… ...
    3 days ago
  • Spring is here – not pollen your leg
    It’s the first day of spring, and many people will be thinking about getting stuck into the weeds in the garden ready for planting. This year September is also Bee Aware Month. While there is a lack of movement from… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    3 days ago
  • Government must do more to help global refugee crisis
    John Key must urgently increase our refugee quota and let New Zealand play its part in helping address the tragic humanitarian crisis unfolding around the world, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “The refugee crisis in countries like Lebanon and Austria… ...
    3 days ago
  • The latest equal pay case – Go the Midwives
    ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    3 days ago
  • Key’s threat to veto premature
    John Key’s threat that he might use a financial veto against the Bill that will introduce 26 weeks Paid Parental Leave is premature and based on inflated costings, says the bill’s sponsor, Labour ‘s Sue Moroney.  “The Government keeps saying… ...
    4 days ago
  • Reflections on the plastic bag tour
    After a marathon public tour around New Zealand that took me to 29 different places around New Zealand from the far north of Kaitaia to the deep south of Invercargill to talk about phasing out plastic bag use, I wanted… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    4 days ago
  • Labour celebrates Tongan language and diversity
    Tongan Language Week is a timely reminder of the importance and beauty of our Pacific culture, identity and language in New Zealand, says our first Tongan born, Tongan speaking MP Jenny Salesa.  The theme for Tongan Language Week in 2015… ...
    4 days ago
  • Privatising CYF about ideology not care
    John Key’s suggestions today that Child Youth and Family could be privatized will be a terrifying thought for New Zealanders already dealing with the mess created in private prisons and plans to sell our state houses to Australians, Opposition Leader… ...
    4 days ago
  • Govt must make most of Jetstar competition
    Government agencies should pledge to always buy “the best fare of the day” to maximise competition between Jetstar and Air New Zealand and ensure savings for taxpayers while boosting services to regional New Zealand, Labour’s Transport Spokesperson Phil Twyford says.… ...
    4 days ago
  • Time for inquiry into petrol margins
    It’s time for an inquiry into petrol companies as margins are once again at the high levels that prompted concerns late last year, says Labour's Energy Spokesperson Stuart Nash. "Over the December January holiday period, petrol importer margins jumped to… ...
    7 days ago
  • More talk as Auckland congestion worsens
    The main impact of the Government’s agreement with Auckland Council today will be simply to delay still further decisions needed to relieve the city’s traffic congestion, says Labour’s Auckland Issues Spokesperson, Phil Goff. “Government has been aware for more than… ...
    1 week ago
  • Serco inquiry extended
    A two month delay to the Government investigation into prison fight clubs shows the extent of problems within the Serco circus, says Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “My office received a tsunami of complaints so I’m not surprised the terms… ...
    1 week ago
  • Truck Shops ignore consumer laws
    A damning Commerce Commission report out today highlights the failure of the Government to protect poor and vulnerable families from unscrupulous truck shops, says Labour’s Consumer Affairs Spokesperson David Shearer. “The report found that 31 out of 32 firms it… ...
    1 week ago
  • Taihoa at Ihumatao says Labour
    Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford has called on the Government to rethink its controversial Special Housing Area in Māngere. Auckland Council is today meeting to discuss the development which borders the Otuataua Stonefield Historic Reserve. This project is to get… ...
    1 week ago
  • Figures suggest National deliberately excluded farming
    Figures showing the dairy industry would be categorised as high risk if there were a further five severe injuries within a year, strongly suggests National designed its flawed system to deliberately exclude farming, Labour’s spokesperson for Labour Issues Iain Lees-Galloway… ...
    1 week ago
  • Bleak report on the state of our children
    A damning conclusion by the Children’s Commissioner today that ‘we don’t know if children are better off as a result of state intervention, but the indications are not good’ should make fixing CYFs a top priority for this Government, says… ...
    1 week ago
  • Dodgy data used to justify axing KiwiSaver kickstart
    National’s agenda to run down KiwiSaver has become even clearer from a scathing critique of the Government’s justification for axing the $1000 kickstart, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Since National came to power they have not only continually undermined… ...
    1 week ago
  • Unsecure website risks Ashley MoBIEson hack
    Experts have raised security concerns that vulnerabilities in MoBIE’s half million-dollar website could lead to a possible Ashley Maddison-style hack, says Labour’s Economic Development spokesperson David Clark. “The real issue here is not what data is immediately available, but what… ...
    1 week ago
  • Democracy still the loser in Canterbury
    The Government has demonstrated once again how arrogant and out of touch it is in denying Cantabrians the same democratic rights as the rest of the country, says Labour’s Environment spokesperson Megan Woods.  “The Environment Canterbury Bill which has been… ...
    1 week ago
  • Waiver cost still a mystery
    The Government still has no idea what it’s going to cost community and voluntary groups to get a waiver from the fees police will charge to carry out checks on their staff and volunteers, says Labour’s Community and Voluntary spokesperson… ...
    1 week ago
  • China exports fall 27 per cent in a year
    Exports to China have fallen by 27 per cent over the last 12 months - showing that the looming economic slowdown should have been expected by the Government, says Labour’s Economic Development Spokesperson David Clark. “The Chinese economic slowdown should… ...
    1 week ago
  • National should support all families for 26 weeks
    Families with multiple babies, and those born prematurely or with disabilities, are the winners from moves to extend paid parental leave to 26 weeks but the Government must give all babies the same head start in life, Labour’s spokesperson for… ...
    1 week ago
  • National’s health and safety shambles puts school camps at risk
    Reports that schools are considering scrapping student camps and tearing out playgrounds highlights just how badly National has managed its health and safety reforms, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Schools have been left completely in the dark about the… ...
    1 week ago
  • National’s asset stripping agenda hits schools
    National’s fire-sale of school houses and land is short-sighted, mean-spirited, and will have huge unintended consequences that we will pay for in years to come, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. Documents obtained by Labour show the Ministry of Education… ...
    1 week ago
  • Takahe massacre supposed to get all New Zealanders involved in conservation
    The Minister’s claim that a  botched cull of one of New Zealand’s rarest birds was a way of getting all New Zealanders involved in conservation is offensive and ludicrous, Labour’s conservation spokesperson Ruth Dyson says.  “An email from Minister Maggie… ...
    1 week ago
  • Serco circus rolls on with revelations of fight club practice
    Further revelations that a Serco prison guard was coaching inmates on fight club techniques confirms a fully independent inquiry needs to take place, says Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “The Minister’s statement today that a guard was coaching sparring techniques… ...
    1 week ago
  • Government targets put ahead of students’ education
    The Government must urgently reassess the way it sets NCEA targets after a new report found they are forcing schools to “credit farm” and are undermining the qualification, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “A PPTA report released today says… ...
    1 week ago
  • ER patients in corridors as health cuts bite
    Patients are being forced to wait for hours on beds in corridors as cash strapped hospitals struggle to keep up with budget cuts, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. “People coming to the emergency room and being forced to wait… ...
    1 week ago
  • Not too late to fix Health and Safety for New Zealand’s workers
    The Government and its minor party supporters are showing an arrogant disregard for workers’ lives by not agreeing to a cross-party solution to the botched Health and Safety bill, Opposition leader Andrew Little says. “Yesterday I wrote to the Prime… ...
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Council of Infrastructure Development
    Tēnā Kotou Katoa. Thank you so much for having me along to speak today. Can I begin by acknowledging John Rae, the President, and Stephen Selwood, the chief executive of the Council for Infrastructure Development. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Reserve Bank points finger at Govt inaction
    In scathing criticism of the Government’s inaction, the Reserve Bank says Auckland housing supply is growing nowhere near fast enough to make a dent the housing shortage, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. Reserve Bank deputy governor Grant Spencer today… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Chickens come home to roost on climate change
    The Government’s gutting of the Emissions Trading Scheme has caused foresters to leave and emissions to rise, says Labour’s Climate Change spokesperson Megan Woods. “The release of the Environmental Protection Agency’s Facts and Figures Report for 2014 on the ETS… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Website adds to long list of big spends at MBIE
    The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment’s $560,000 outlay on its new website is further evidence of excessive spending by Steven Joyce on his pet project super ministry, Labour’s Economic Development spokesperson David Clark says.  “Hot on the heels of… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Brownlee warned over EQC repairs but ignored them
    Gerry Brownlee was warned that EQC’s underfloor repairs weren’t being done properly by industry experts, the cross party working group and in public but he arrogantly ignored them all, says Labour’s Earthquake Commission spokesperson Clayton Cosgrove.  “Today’s apology and commitment… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Serco wants in on state house sell off
    The Government must keep scandal plagued outsourcing company Serco away from our state housing after their disastrous record running Mt Eden prison, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. "Today it has emerged that at the same time Serco was under… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Come clean on Pasifika education centre
    Minister Peseta Sam Lotu-Iinga needs to come clean and tell the Pasifika communities if he’s working to save the Pasifika Education Centre or shut it down, Labour’s Pasifika spokesperson Su’a William Sio says.  “I’m gutted the Pasifika Education Centre funding… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Time for NZTA to work on alternatives to flyover
    The High Court decision rejecting the New Zealand Transport Agency’s attempts to build the Basin Reserve flyover must now mean that NZTA finally works with the community on other options for transport solutions in Wellington, Grant Robertson and Annette King… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Shiny new system leads to record truancy
    Record high truancy rates shows the Government’s much-vaunted new attendance system is an abysmal failure, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Data released today shows truancy rates have spiked more than 15 per cent in 2014 and are now at… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Woodhouse wrong about quarries
      The Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety Michael Woodhouse was wrong yesterday when he said limestone quarries were covered by the farcical Health and Safety legislation, says Labour’s Associate Labour spokesperson Sue Moroney.  “He said he ‘understood’ limestone quarries… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taxpayers money spent on culling one of our rarest birds
    It beggars belief that four endangered takahe were killed by incompetent cullers contracted to the Department of Conservation and the Minister must explain this wanton destruction, says Conservation spokesperson Ruth Dyson. “It must not be forgotten that there are only… ...
    2 weeks ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere