UK – Cameron loses his shit, new members flood to Labour

183 comments on “UK – Cameron loses his shit, new members flood to Labour ”

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1. Paul 1

   14 September 2015 at 6:49 am

   One day people in New Zealand are going to realise the media lies.
   • weka 1.1

     14 September 2015 at 8:33 am

     One day the Labour party in NZ is going to realise it backed the wrong side.
     • Lanthanide 1.1.1

       14 September 2015 at 9:42 am

       Which side have they backed that is wrong?

       Bear in mind the politics in NZ is a little different from the UK, in that we have a strong Green party on the left already, compared to the Greens getting 1-2 seats like in the UK.

       Yes, of course Labour could swing left and hoover up all the Greens vote, but that’s not actually going to expand the vote take of the left, assuming no new voters are attracted.

       It’s a very tricky balancing act. But maybe it is just so tricky being an anodyne middle-of-the-road centre-left party, that they should just give up on that approach, and be a radical left party and see what happens?

       I think no-one can really say for sure what the best approach is.
       • Enough is Enough 1.1.1.1

         14 September 2015 at 9:48 am

         It will be a great case study for New Zealand Labour though.

         If, as I expect Labour, under Corbyn, gain massive public support in the next 6 months as a result of true socialist policies that benefit the majority, then New Zealand Labour may finally get the message and do the same here.

         I think by February UK Labour will be 20 points ahead of the Tories.
         • lprent 1.1.1.1.1

           14 September 2015 at 12:17 pm

           Unless they manage their internal divisions, what the public will see will be a whole lot of public spats and public defections.

           There may be massive public support from the disaffected, but if they don’t handle the transition to being further left, then they will lose a lot of support from the people who value stability and good governance.

           The best thing going for Labour right now is the divisions in the Conservative party that are opening up over the EU referendum.
       • weka 1.1.1.2

         14 September 2015 at 9:57 am

         “Which side have they backed that is wrong?”

         Rogernomics, neoliberalism, ABCs, centrism, austerity, take your pick.

         “assuming no new voters are attracted.”

         I’ll be interested to see any analysis coming out of the UK about whether Corbyn is engaging non-voters.

         In NZ, IMO the left are screwed until they can pick up some of the non-vote.

         It’s a very tricky balancing act. But maybe it is just so tricky being an anodyne middle-of-the-road centre-left party, that they should just give up on that approach, and be a radical left party and see what happens?

         I think no-one can really say for sure what the best approach is.

         I agree that no-on can say for sure what will happen, but many people can say that NZ Labour not working to actual Labour party principles is wrong (and there are plenty who’ve documented that). Which leaves us with the Shearer position, which is that power is more important (but actually he really just likes neoliberalism). Labour’s dilemma is that now believes being centrist and in power is more important than being left wing. That’s the mistake Labour in the UK made.

         What we can also say with confidence is that the Overton Window in NZ will never move left again until we have some actual left wing parties. The GP can’t be expected to carry that one, because they’ve positioned themselves as much on the vertical axis as on the horizontal one. We still need a left wing socialist party here.
         • Lanthanide 1.1.1.2.1

           14 September 2015 at 11:08 am

           “In NZ, IMO the left are screwed until they can pick up some of the non-vote.”

           Agreed. The media like stories about momentum, and Labour just won’t get any until they’re polling 35%+ regularly (with Greens unchanged or higher), and that likely won’t happen until they get that non-vote to turn out.

           “What we can also say with confidence is that the Overton Window in NZ will never move left again until we have some actual left wing parties. ”

           Not so sure on that one. It is National who have put up benefit rates, after Labour didn’t go into the 2014 election pledging that. National have also budged on paid parental leave. It’s of course questionable if this has shifted the overton window at all, but these definitely aren’t right-wing policies.
           • Tracey 1.1.1.2.1.1

             14 September 2015 at 12:11 pm

             I agree it is not so much what National has done that has moved the centre but LP since 1984. So the current LP is bearing the weight of THAT legacy. Many people now believe that one day, sometime “soon” things will get better but in the meantime they vote for, and work against, their own best interests.
         • lprent 1.1.1.2.2

           14 September 2015 at 11:54 am

           There are several problems with “actual left wing parties”.

           1. They disintegrate internally at the drop of a hat because the people inside them disagree and fail to agree to disagree. The New Labour party was a pretty good example. 13 years after disintegration, the people who were inside it are still arguing about who was to blame. Internet Mana had the same structural issue.

           2. The people involved in such parties seem to spend a lot of time attacking other parties and their candidates and members. They then display remarkably thin skins and get quite upset when people in those parties dislike that and return it – except more effectively. Mana was a very good example of that.

           The main reason that they lost Te Tai Tokerau was because they pissed off Kelvin Davis, most of his electorate activists, and generally many of the Labour party members with their thin skinned hostility, whining, and sheer political stupidity. They made it quite clear that working with them was going to be close to impossible except on a individual basis. So no-one who was politically competent outside of their employees bothered to help them, and they certainly weren’t capable of doing it themselves.

           The supporters of Internet Mana appeared to be far better at talking about what they would do after they won seats than actually going off and winning seats. Consequently they didn’t win any. Effectively they undervalued the extent that any new party was reliant on political goodwill of people who weren’t their own supporters.

           Now you could change an existing left party to become a more left party. However the same issues apply. You have to be damn careful that you get others inside the party to agree to disagree and to stay working inside it. Otherwise the party itself either dies or becomes rigid and unable to cope easily with change.

           The last time that a fast and radical shift happened in a NZ political party was during the 4th Labour government (although Act in the mid-noughts is another variant) to the right. It resulted in widescale fractures, a party that became unelectable because of obvious internal divisions, and split off parties of the left and right that all eventually died. To a large extent the fractures of that time persist inside the NZLP today resulting in a pretty high degree of rigidity that makes it hard for them to change their organisation.

           It is going to be “interesting” seeing how the UK Labour party copes with that this time. They did a terrible job of it last time when the Blairites went on a mass purging of the left of their party. I don’t hold out much hope that the left will be any better.
           • Tracey 1.1.1.2.2.1

             14 September 2015 at 12:12 pm

             Where do you place The Green Party on the political spectrum?
             • lprent …

               14 September 2015 at 2:02 pm

               They tend to run off into their own axis. It overlaps a lot of people in the labour left for one reason or another (like me), but annoys a lot as well. They have a social policy area that is largely compatible with many of the middle class part of the electorate, but a lot less interesting with workers interested in actual jobs.

               The same happens out on the right. There are two distinct axes there. Conservative and Liberal with various graduations. They also have a considerable conservationist (aka NIMBY) axes there as well that the Green tap into.
           • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.2.2.2

             14 September 2015 at 12:41 pm

             Harawira lost Te Tai Tokerau by 750 votes. The only mistake he made was not spending enough time in his electorate instead of irrelevantly tiki touring the rest of the country.

             Kelvin Davis wouldn’t have had a shot if Hone had spent those extra weeks in electorate.
             • lprent …

               14 September 2015 at 2:25 pm

               We will never know for sure. However the numbers are pretty indicative.

               However Hone lost in an election that had large increase in turnout – something like 2500 as I recall – much of it in West Auckland. As far as I could tell from the votes, Hone went from having a substantial majority of a bit more than 1000 votes to losing by about 750.

               The change in the other candidates was about 700 down. Kelvin raised his vote by about 1700 votes. Hone raised his by about 800. Since raising your vote against a sitting MP is damn hard work and has little to do with money (the $20+ limit is pretty low), you need to do it with activist leg and finger work.

               The westie Labour activists from Te Tai Tokerau before and on election night were completely uninterested in the overall election. But you could see their burning desire to kick Hone out during the campaign. To me it looked like Kelvin got a *lot* more committed activists on the ground. That is hard to beat with a few speeches.

               Personally I lost any inclination to throw any support Internet Mana’s way long before the election because of the way that the arrogant idiot supporters refused to listen to basics like why Labour would be standing a candidate in Te Tai Tokerau. Not to mention the irredeemably stupid bombast about how large the effect of throwing money at a campaign would be.

               Mana/Hone lost a lot of the latent political goodwill that had existed in previous elections towards them because of the way that their supporters handled themselves. It got converted to active dislike.

               Some of the idiotic behaviour after the election then really pissed me off. I’m not exactly alone in that, and these kinds of emotional responses carry a long time in the political sphere.
           • Ad 1.1.1.2.2.3

             14 September 2015 at 12:51 pm

             Well said Lyn.
           • mike 1.1.1.2.2.4

             14 September 2015 at 1:00 pm

             Quite right on agreeing to disagree.

             There are myriad ways to empathise with others less fortunate than oneself. We have to guard against ‘holier-than-thou’ positions in our views of a comrade’s empathetic stance.
             Unfortunately ‘holier-than-thou’ is rampant on the left/liberal side of political feeling, and within political parties like our labour and green parties.
             We need more focus on the enemies of our beliefs, not on which tone of red our comrades see.
             In the 70’s my friend was purged from the communist party in Wellington, for some arcane reason, and they purged their numbers from nine to eight. Tragic.

             Focussing on the common enemy is vitally important in minimising internal differences. When ever will we learn that?
             It’s dispiriting for those with a more generalised view of what is right and wrong in political thought to watch our prospects for getting something done scuttled by a holier-than-thou scrap amongst nit-pickers.
             • Bob …

               14 September 2015 at 2:11 pm

               “Focussing on the common enemy is vitally important in minimising internal differences. When ever will we learn that?”
               I disagree, focusing on the ‘enemy’ is where the Labour Party has gone wrong in NZ the last 2 elections at least.
               Labour should have congratulated National on extending free healthcare to under 13’s, for increasing benefits above the rate of inflation for the first time in 30+ years, for increasing paid parental leave from 12 weeks out to 14, then 16 weeks, for introducing food in schools etc, etc.
               Labour should have been re-enforcing that these are the kinds of policies that people should be voting for and offering their plan to continue the expansion of these policies. Instead, Labour looked like sore losers on all of the above, complaining none of these went far enough even though they are all much further than Labour ever managed during their time in power.
               Labour need to learn that it is better to pick your battles rather than constantly portraying negativity simply because you are in opposition, that is the way they can move the Overton Window to the left, and that is how they will find themselves once again rising in the polls, IMO.
               • Tracey …

                 14 September 2015 at 2:57 pm

                 cos being attacking didnt get nats in in 2008 and hasnt been done by them since… 🙄
                 • mike …

                   14 September 2015 at 3:22 pm

                   Right Tracy. And the logical extension of bob’s argument is that the Allies should have found things to congratulate the German nazi’s on. Congratulations for inventing the pilotless bomb – we should have thought of that. Thank you for the Blitzkrieg, we too will feed our troops methamphetamine.
                   No, congratulating the government is not really the role of an opposition. Though, if you listen to parliament you’ll find it happening much more at present that when Labour was last in government.
                   Perhaps that’s why this lot win.They focus on the common enemy of their beliefs.
                   • Bob …

                     14 September 2015 at 3:36 pm

                     Yeah, great example mike! War is just like politics….wait, what? That isn’t a logical extension of my argument at all!

                     “No, congratulating the government is not really the role of an opposition. ”
                     Perhaps that is Labours problem, they may also believe opposition parties should just be negative on everything, in that case they are doing the job extremely well! No wonder they keep getting voted into opposition, keep up the good work…
                 • Bob …

                   14 September 2015 at 3:32 pm

                   Ah, great example! They also stood alongside Labour on the anti-smacking legislation, they picked their battles and didn’t just attack for the sake of attacking, as Chris Trotter pointed out here just last year: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/chris-trotter/10335150/See-how-Key-cleverly-takes-Centre-stage
                   The fact you and a large number of people on the left clearly haven’t yet learnt from the past Tracey, doesn’t mean you can’t start now, you’re never too old and all that. Alternatively, you can continue to roll your eyes and wait until after the next election for another internal review, they seem to work really well ‘sarc’.
                   • red-blooded …

                     14 September 2015 at 5:06 pm

                     Let’s remember that the anti-smacking bill was actually a conscience vote, Bob. Besides, I think we’ve just seen a good example of Little pledging to vote with the govt on the refugee increase, whilst still saying that he would like a stronger position on the permanent increase to the annual intake.
                   • Bob …

                     14 September 2015 at 5:16 pm

                     “I think we’ve just seen a good example of Little pledging to vote with the govt on the refugee increase”
                     Exactly, we have, I am pretty sure this is the first time I can remember any Labour leading since Helen Clark doing so and I commend him for it. If this is the way the Little intends to continue then I can see Labour winning the next election (they don’t need much of a boost to win). It kills the Angry Andy label pretty fast if he continues to be willing to work with the Government on specific policies, and it also means when he does actually disagree with Government policy people might listen rather than a ‘boy who cried wolf’ scenario. In my eyes it’s a win-win for Labour.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     14 September 2015 at 5:17 pm

                     Besides, I think we’ve just seen a good example of Little pledging to vote with the govt on the refugee increase, whilst still saying that he would like a stronger position on the permanent increase to the annual intake.

                     Labour is taking a safe position as usual on this issue. Per capita, if we were to match Germany’s pledge on Syrian refugees, we would be taking in 40,000 over the next year.

                     The numbers that National, and Labour, are talking about are utterly meaningless.
                   • Bob …

                     14 September 2015 at 5:25 pm

                     CV, I agree that in this case the numbers are pathetically low, but you can also guarantee that John Key would have done his homework on what an ‘acceptable’ increase would be in the eyes of the majority before releasing this. If Andrew Little had come out bagging Key for doing too little he risked falling on the wrong side of public opinion (Nation could have used the increased costs of taking even more refugees to beat them with).
                     In this case, it is a poor resolution but good politics from Little.
                     Again, pick your battles.
                   • Tracey …

                     15 September 2015 at 9:33 am

                     I am not waiting for Labour to do anything Bob. I haven’t voted Labour for a few elections now. If you think that National did not, and does not, use attack style politics and negativity then I don’t know where you have been for the last few years.

                     I did NOT say I think it’s a good idea or that I approve, I merely observed that National have been doing it to get into power to keep power. It’s like you missed the Leaderships of Shearer and Cunliffe and the negative attacking machine brought to bear against them. Which rather suggests the tactic works, for them anyway.

                     There’s a book you could read which shines some light on the extent of the negative and attacking behaviour by Nats and their supporters and paid lackeys. It’s called Dirty Polictics. The author is Nicky Hager.
                   • Tracey …

                     15 September 2015 at 9:36 am

                     Bob, you wrote

                     “Exactly, we have, I am pretty sure this is the first time I can remember any Labour leading since Helen Clark doing so a…”

                     Labour voted with the Governmen ton the cyber bullying bill didn’t they Bob?
             • lprent …

               15 September 2015 at 5:45 pm

               The holier than thou always annoys the hell out of me. I’m interested in making constructive and effective change and I am very uninterested in religious schisms.
           • ropata 1.1.1.2.2.5

             14 September 2015 at 11:31 pm

             @lprent, this cartoon captured the UK Labour fracture perfectly. I like that Blair is poking out of the horses’ arse 🙂

             David Simonds on Jeremy Corbyn's victory in Labour leadership election – cartoon http://t.co/vn7qOJ6xAx pic.twitter.com/kyjAZiYvze— Comment is free (@commentisfree) September 14, 2015
       • Mike S 1.1.1.3

         14 September 2015 at 8:07 pm

         Well they’re going to find it difficult to get swing voters whilst they are relying on the greens to form a government. Whether we like it or not, many fence sitters will not vote Labour because they have brought into the fear mongering about having the Greens in Government.
         • Tracey 1.1.1.3.1

           15 September 2015 at 9:37 am

           Mike S, it’s going to be VERY hard for the LP to pull voters from both Green Party AND the National party, to get their majority…
     • dukeofurl 1.1.2

       14 September 2015 at 9:43 am

       What does that mean ? Did they put out a policy saying we endorse a particular person ( out of roughly half a dozen running)
       Are you really close to the thinking of any of the senior labour people ?

       hes only a leader of the party, not some tin pot dictator with unlimited power, be interesting to see what the formal policies that are adopted through the normal process. There is a lot of water under the bridge yet.
       • weka 1.1.2.1

         14 September 2015 at 9:59 am

         Ok, I’m surprised I have to explain this, but see my reply to Lanth above. Labour in NZ chose neoliberalism and centrism and the consequences of that. I think that’s backing the wrong side (as opposed to say being a left wing party) and there’s been plenty of analysis that that is why they’re doing so poorly now.
         • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1.1

           14 September 2015 at 12:43 pm

           Huge internal blindness within Labour continues
         • dukeofurl 1.1.2.1.2

           14 September 2015 at 3:22 pm

           OK , I thought you meant there was some sort of resolution for one of the others running against Corbyn.

           Interesting that you think Corbyn has achieved anything apart from the party leaders ‘job’. We wont know for 5 years whether hes in a position to change the country.
           I wish him well, all though he wouldnt be my choice, as they have had many years of Blair and Brown, so its his time in the sun.
   • The Real Matthew 1.2

     14 September 2015 at 1:58 pm

     Our media could hardly be more left wing if they tried.

     The Herald constantly attacks the current government in it’s editorials and selects suitable Letters to the Editor. The Herald prints a vast array of left wing writers while giving hardly a column to any countering view.
     • Coffee Connoisseur 1.2.1

       14 September 2015 at 2:57 pm

       Not sure I’d agree with that based on Josie Paganis article today in the herald on Corbyn

       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11512750#comment-form

       They (The Herald) didn’t want to post my comment despite it simply being based in logic reason ande common sense. Probably didn’t want the same thing happening here in New Zealand if people woke up to what is possible….

       The comment in response to Josies article was simply this:

       Corbyn can deliver on his policies by doing exactly what he has eluded to during his campaign. Re-nationalizing essential services and doing so without compensation. Sure it will upset a few on the right but investment is about risk. Changes to government policy is a risk. Welcome to the real world Josie.

       As for people voting for the Conservative party because of Austerity? Well yes they did. But what was the alternative on offer under Ed Millband? Austerity but with higher taxes.

       Corbyn has given people a real alternative. An alternative that is not simply more Austerity but with higher taxes for an already struggling population. Not only that but Corbyn has tapped into the non voting block, a block that sees a very broken system. A system that until Corbyn hasn’t served them. These are people who live in a world of logic common sense and reason and they see a system that is devoid of it. A system where the media is owned by the very people that government seems to be working for at every turn. Corbyn works for the people and they know it. Democracy is a powerful thing when used effectively.
       • Saarbo 1.2.1.1

         14 September 2015 at 4:40 pm

         Pagani’s rant supports Iprents analysis from above 100%.

         “Left…fail to agree to disagree…”
     • Tracey 1.2.2

       14 September 2015 at 2:57 pm

       what country’s herald are you reading?
2. Ad 2

   14 September 2015 at 6:53 am

   David Cameron should Keep Calm And Carry On.
   And hand is phone back to his P.A.
   • Lara 2.1

     14 September 2015 at 8:04 am

     LMFAO
   • Tracey 2.2

     14 September 2015 at 12:13 pm

     Or take it off his press secretary
3. ropata 3

   14 September 2015 at 6:57 am

   translation of Cameron-speak

   spying on private citizens = “national security”
   bailing out big banks = “economic security”
   austerity and Dickensian poverty levels = “family security”
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     14 September 2015 at 7:33 am

     +1

     Same applies in NZ under this government.
   • GregJ 3.2

     14 September 2015 at 8:50 pm

     Very nice @ropata!

     I may have to steal that!
4. millsy 4

   14 September 2015 at 7:24 am

   …says a PM who is letting his Chancellor pare the state back to Walpole-era levels.
   • Puckish Rogue 4.1

     14 September 2015 at 11:34 am

     Ok so have you got any evidence that its paring back to the 1700s?
5. swordfish 5

   14 September 2015 at 7:33 am

   I read in The Guardian that it’s now more than 15,000 new members.
6. Rosie 6

   14 September 2015 at 7:45 am

   Lol, that’s the kind of freak out Key would have if he were in Cameron’s shoes. Birds of a feather, or the the feathers of Crosby Textor, or a bit of both.

   Even in New Zuland our media are getting in on the “OMG!!!! an actual left wing leader for Labour in Britain”. 3 News last night introduced Jeremy Corbyn as “extreme left wing” followed later with “radical socialist” in an attempt to make him seem out there and untrustworthy, a loose canon.

   Don’t think they have ever referred to Cameron as “extreme right wing” or “radical capitalist”. And they’ve certainly never given that label to Key.
7. Wayne 7

   14 September 2015 at 8:02 am

   Rosie,

   It is pretty difficult to have anyone (other than some Standardnistas) believe that John Key is “extreme right wing” which is why he is not described as such. Labels only ever stick if they have a credible basis in truth.

   Objectively, given Corbyn’s record, it is pretty hard to see him as anything other than left wing – that after all was his whole appeal to his supporters. And given he voted against his own party 500 times he has to be on the extreme end of the Party.

   Anyway I will judge Corbyn’s appeal to Britons 12 months from now. To use an analogy, initially it looked like the support for Trump would be ephemeral, now he really is the front runner and has been for some months. That means he is likely to get the Republican nomination. But can he win the presidential election?
   • Rob 7.1

     14 September 2015 at 8:24 am

     Wayne I consider him to be more a follower rather than leader
     Also he lacks empathy
     I would have to wonder what does he really fell for this country!
     • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1

       14 September 2015 at 9:58 am

       I’ve been thinking lately that Key fits nicely into the authoritarian follower mold. He doesn’t lead anywhere and he’s always looking for the pat on the head from the more powerful.
   • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2

     14 September 2015 at 8:40 am

     Passing legislation that fundamentally conflicts with the rule of law is centrist. Keep telling yourself that, Law Commissioner Mapp.
     • GregJ 7.2.1

       14 September 2015 at 9:39 pm

       Surely Law Gauleiter Mapp OAB?

       I’m sure Commissioner (Commissar) smacks to much of the left for Wayne. 👿
   • North 7.3

     14 September 2015 at 8:53 am

     what a dog is Cameron. Nay…..a skunk of a man !
   • Rosie 7.4

     14 September 2015 at 9:11 am

     Dr M.

     I don’t disagree that Jeremy Corbyn is left wing. There’s no denying that.

     I don’t think however, that his degree of leftishness should be measured against the British labour Party – they can’t really be held up as an example of a true left wing Party.

     Look at Blair, the war monger. What a let down he was for Labour voters. I remember celebrating with friends from the UK who were Labour through and through, when Blair first came to power, and then seeing their joy turn to disappointment, disillusionment and rage as took Britain to war in Iraq.

     Now they have some hope. The fact that Corbyn has voted against his party so many times should be reassuring for those voters who want to see a change for the better. The membership uptake on the announcement of Corbyn’s win should be further encouragement, an indication of trust and belief.
     • Raf 7.4.1

       14 September 2015 at 12:57 pm

       Nah, in my view Corbyn has never voted against his party – he’s voted, consistently, against Blairism, and remained true to genuine Labour principles. Now Blairism is dead, and we’re back to Proper Labour. Not ‘far left radicalism’ or ‘Marxism’ or any other bloody ism or scare tactic – just good old Proper Labour that looks after people.
       • Rodel 7.4.1.1

         14 September 2015 at 7:43 pm

         Raf ..well put and so true.
   • David H 7.5

     14 September 2015 at 9:12 am

     True Extreme RWinger does not work for Key. However Moroninc. Deliberately Forgetful. Lying Muppet. Works for me.
   • cogito 7.6

     14 September 2015 at 9:15 am

     Key is a fake, just like those fake Rolex watches for sale in Asia. People get sucked into buying them because they look good and give an impression of affluence, but they are full of cheap crap.
     • marty mars 7.6.1

       14 September 2015 at 9:56 am

       key is our trump
   • Pat 7.7

     14 September 2015 at 9:30 am

     think the objection is around the word “extreme”…and Key and co could well be described as extreme in the NZ context with the level of dishonesty /corruption they have displayed in the past 7 years.
   • North 7.8

     14 September 2015 at 9:34 am

     What was that song Wayne ?…….”Spinning Spinning Spinning……” something about a magic land or hand or some such ?

     Great to see the Sprite-Parliament-Pensioned-Right out on the Common this morning !
   • Lanthanide 7.9

     14 September 2015 at 9:45 am

     “That means he is likely to get the Republican nomination.”

     Only if you have no understanding of how the Republican nomination process works.

     Hint: the party insiders pick the nominee, not the people on the ground, although it may appear that way. Trump is an anathema to the republican old guard. He’s only been as successful as he is because he is a billionaire in his own right so can bankrole whatever crazy crap he likes.
     • Kevin 7.9.1

       14 September 2015 at 12:30 pm

       There is no ‘an’ before anathema.
   • KJT 7.10

     14 September 2015 at 9:52 am

     Key, like all crooks, with their eye on his reward after politics, in Hawaiian heaven, is totally pragmatic.
     He will do what it takes to get enough votes to complete selling us out to his paymasters.
     O for the days when even National politicians, had dreams for New Zealand.
     • Draco T Bastard 7.10.1

       14 September 2015 at 10:01 am

       O for the days when even National politicians, had dreams for New Zealand.

       QFT

       Haven’t seen any of those around for about 20+ years.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.11

     14 September 2015 at 9:56 am

     Reality has an extreme Left-wing bias

     That fact alone makes Key and National extreme Right-wing.

     And, yes, it is a fact. The RWNJ paradigm is simply unsustainable.
     • vto 7.11.1

       14 September 2015 at 10:55 am

       Reality has an extreme Left-wing bias

       Examples –

       Farmers and Fonterra, Ravensdown. Good solid all-out collectivist socialist stuff. Reality.

       Central Chch rebuild. Good solid state intervention while completing ignoring free market mechanisms. Reality.

       Corporate welfare. Good solid welfare handouts for mediaworks, South Canterbury Finance, Rio Tinto even …… compelte welfare dependency. Reality.

       The reality of the right wing is in fact entirely left wing …. fools don’t even recognise it …
   • Naturesong 7.12

     14 September 2015 at 10:52 am

     I don’t believe John Key is extreme right wing.

     However he is the leader of a group of legislators that enacts right wing policies in a very measured “don’t scare the horses” kind of way.

     Like a rachet, it only turns one way.
     Most steps are incremental. That adds up over 7 years.
   • swordfish 7.13

     14 September 2015 at 11:25 am

     The problem, Wayne, is not the left-wing label but the pejorative “Extreme Left” or “Hard Left” label (the latter expression, of course, often favoured by your good self, whenever you’re in a playful mood)

     Corbyn was one of a group of around 15 Labour MPs who regularly voted against the more Thatcherite excesses of the Blair Government (a second, much larger group of around 40 MPs also regularly rebelled, though not quite as often as these 15). That doesn’t put Corbyn at the “extreme end of the Party”. It, in fact, places him (and the other 50+ rebels) squarely in line with both core social democratic values and the vast bulk of the UK Labour Party membership.
     • Karen 7.13.1

       14 September 2015 at 2:15 pm

       +1 Swordfish
     • Tracey 7.13.2

       14 September 2015 at 2:59 pm

       well put
   • Tracey 7.14

     14 September 2015 at 12:14 pm

     “Labels only ever stick if they have a credible basis in truth.”

     ROFLMAO

     If you really believe that, it’s sad….
   • Clemgeopin 7.15

     14 September 2015 at 12:22 pm

     @Wayne, we have all been conditioned to think that the uncontrolled, selfish, free market economic model ensuring the betterment of the fittest, the smartest, the most cunning or the most privileged is the best way for the good of the world as long as minimalistic crumbs, with a bit of honey here and there, for sustenance are provided to the ‘workers’, ‘the common people’ and the ‘under class’.

     In reality, the RW control of the 1% of the population over the 90%.

     I put it to you that the RW tide is slowly and steadily turning, in spite of it’s massive spin and PR machine.

     A fairer society with basic socialist ideals will slowly and steadily become the new norm. The RW rich pricks and the crooked, powerful corporates ( some of whose CEO’s earn over hundreds of times the average wage) should rake note.

     Have a read of Corbyn’s first article as leader and see what you think :

     http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-victory-vision
     • Puddleglum 7.15.1

       14 September 2015 at 8:58 pm

       From your link:

       “The most important message my election offers to the millions who we need to vote Labour and turn the Tories out of office is that the party is now unequivocally on their side. We understand aspiration and we understand that it is only collectively that our aspirations can be realised.”

       Now that is how you do a judo throw on right wing rhetoric.

       And there’s plenty more of the same subtle but straightforward political instincts: talk of the leader not issuing “edicts from on high” to the party; (re)building a movement not a party, etc..
   • GregJ 7.16

     14 September 2015 at 9:33 pm

     Key isn’t “extreme right wing” but he is “right wing” & a neoliberal despite the quite successful attempts (aided by a complacent, compliant and catatonic media) to paint him as a moderate & centre-right.
8. ropata 8

   14 September 2015 at 8:16 am

   Wayne, nobody knows Key’s actual politics, he’s an empty suit parroting lines from his spin manual
9. Rodel 9

   14 September 2015 at 8:29 am

   “Labels only ever stick if they have a credible basis in truth”.. wrong. Crosby textor’s spin belies this. The mud has to stick only until the votes are counted.

   Also..the attempt to draw a parallel between Corbyn and Trump… not a very convincing analogy as far as analogies go.
   • Rosie 9.1

     14 September 2015 at 9:21 am

     “Also..the attempt to draw a parallel between Corbyn and Trump… not a very convincing analogy as far as analogies go.”

     Exactly. I thought that statement was a bit of a stretch.
     • David 9.1.1

       14 September 2015 at 9:28 am

       A better one is ‘Corbyn is the UK version of Sarah Palin.’ A much better fit.
       • Tautoko Mangō Mata 9.1.1.1

         14 September 2015 at 9:39 am

         ?????? Is this humorous sarc or for real? Palin:Opposes same sex marriages, favours capital punishment, fiscal conservative, supports free market healthcare, promotes oil and gas development, pro war in Afghanistan and Iraq,
         • David 9.1.1.1.1

           14 September 2015 at 11:31 am

           Where did I say they shared they same policies? They have a similarity in appealing to a core base, but being laughed at by the opposition.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.1.1.1

             14 September 2015 at 11:50 am

             …the next stage is they fight him.
             • BM …

               14 September 2015 at 11:59 am

               Corbyn looks like he’s about ready for the grave.

               Out of interest I went and had a look at wikipedia on oldest British PMs, according to wikipedia if Corbyn wins he’ll be the oldest ever first time PM.

               https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom#Age_at_appointment
               • One Anonymous Bloke …

                 14 September 2015 at 12:17 pm

                 Wishing him dead works for you does it?
               • dukeofurl …

                 14 September 2015 at 3:51 pm

                 Im sure hes in better nick than Churchill, or weren’t you thinking of that old.
               • Clemgeopin …

                 14 September 2015 at 5:09 pm

                 “Corbyn looks like he’s about ready for the grave”

                 Shows that the right wing rogues are really scared of this ‘dying’ man.
                 Look at the way Cameron has panicked! The scary thing for them is that Corbyn has the all powerful TPP : ‘The People Power’!

                 —————–
                 Enjoy:
                 Socialist Victory Choir – The Red Flag

                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDIuApfVxBg&list=RDkDIuApfVxBg#t=10

                 ———————
                 The Internationale (Billy Braggs Version)

                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVQgxdmpfc
                 —————————————————————–

                 Lyrics to ‘The Red Flag’:

                 The people’s flag is deepest red
                 It shrouded oft our martyred dead
                 And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold
                 Their hearts’ blood dyed to every fold

                 Chorus:
                 Then raise the scarlet standard high
                 Beneath it’s folds we’ll live and die
                 Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
                 We’ll keep the red flag flying here

                 It waved above our infant might
                 When all ahead seemed dark as night
                 It witnessed many a deed and vow
                 We must not change it’s colour now

                 Chorus

                 It well recalls the triumphs past
                 It gives the hope of peace at last
                 The banner bright, the symbol plain
                 Of human right and human gain

                 Chorus

                 It suits today the meek and base
                 Whose minds are fixed on pelf and place
                 To cringe beneath the rich man’s frown
                 And haul that sacred emblem down

                 Chorus

                 With heads uncovered swear we all
                 To bare it onward till we fall
                 Come dungeons dark or gallows grim
                 This song shall be our parting hymn

                 Chorus

                 ——————
                 Lyrics to ‘The Internationale’ :

                 Stand up all victims of oppression
                 For the tyrants fear your might
                 Don’t cling so hard to your possessions
                 For you have nothing if you have no rights
                 Let racist ignorance be ended
                 For respect makes the empires fall
                 Freedom is merely privilege extended
                 Unless enjoyed by one and all

                 [Chorus]
                 So come brothers and sisters
                 For the struggle carries on
                 The internationale
                 Unites the world in song
                 So comrades come rally
                 For this is the time and place
                 The international ideal
                 Unites the human race

                 Let no one build walls to divide us
                 Walls of hatred nor walls of stone
                 Come greet the dawn and stand beside us
                 We’ll live together or we’ll die alone
                 In our world poisoned by exploitation
                 Those who have taken now they must give
                 And end the vanity of nations
                 We’ve but one earth on which to live

                 And so begins the final drama
                 In the streets and in the fields
                 We stand unbowed before their armor
                 We defy their guns and shields
                 When we fight provoked by their aggression
                 Let us be inspired by like and love
                 For though they offer us concessions
                 Change will not come from above
           • Raf 9.1.1.1.1.2

             14 September 2015 at 1:00 pm

             I think the laughing has stopped, sonny!
           • greywarshark 9.1.1.1.1.3

             14 September 2015 at 5:46 pm

             That’s politics David. Nothing particular to Corbyn. Have you ever heard Gnats take Labour seriously in Q&A.?
   • weka 9.2

     14 September 2015 at 9:45 am

     “Labels only ever stick if they have a credible basis in truth”.. wrong. Crosby textor’s spin belies this. The mud has to stick only until the votes are counted.

     ‘Labels only ever stick if they have a credible basis in truth’ is the new CT spin 😉

     Kind of weird that Wayne would try that out on ts though, as if anyone here wouldn’t just laugh at the suggestion.
     • Tracey 9.2.1

       14 September 2015 at 12:17 pm

       My thoughts too, but does play into that notion of the writer the other day of the National Pusher? The alternative is that Wayne genuinely believes that labels don’t stick unless true and that is too frightening to contemplate in a former Cabinet Minister and current Law Commissioner.
   • Tracey 9.3

     14 September 2015 at 12:15 pm

     That Wayne may genuinely not understand that is nothing less than frightening.
10. KeepLeft 10

    14 September 2015 at 8:36 am

    The right wing, capitalist governments, the military-industrial complex and world bankers should all be fearful. Corbyn is a member of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign. With Corbyn in charge of Britain the oppressed Palestinian peoples shall rise up and destroy the fascist apartheid state of Isreal and reclaim the land that was always theirs!!!
    • David 10.1

      14 September 2015 at 9:14 am

      Good luck with that……
      • KeepLeft 10.1.1

        14 September 2015 at 11:32 am

        World zionism is now on notice.
        • David 10.1.1.1

          14 September 2015 at 11:42 am

          I’m sure it’s quaking in it’s boots. Quite how destruction of the only functional democracy in the middle east is going to bring peace is a bit lost on me, but I’m sure you have it all in hand.
          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1

            14 September 2015 at 12:56 pm

            Quite how destruction of the only functional democracy in the middle east

            Israel has one of the world’s largest stock piles of nuclear weapons and is not a signatory to any arms control or non-proliferation treaties.

            No one is going to be “destroying” it.
            • David 10.1.1.1.1.1

              14 September 2015 at 1:10 pm

              Apparently, Jez is going to….

              With Corbyn in charge of Britain the oppressed Palestinian peoples shall rise up and destroy the fascist apartheid state of Isreal
          • DoublePlusGood 10.1.1.1.2

            14 September 2015 at 1:18 pm

            Israel is an apartheid state. Stop pretending it’s a democracy.
            • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.2.1

              14 September 2015 at 3:36 pm

              Apartheid South Africa was also a “democracy”…
          • joe90 10.1.1.1.3

            14 September 2015 at 1:39 pm

            functional democracy in the middle east

            Functioning democracies don’t use exclusive ethnic majority commissions to subject their representatives of ethnic minorities to overtly racist approval hearings.

            Functioning democracies don’t use exclusive ethnic majority commissions to arbitrarily ban their ethnic minorities candidates.

            Functioning democracies don’t use their parliamentary ethnic majority to raise electoral thresholds as a way to block their ethnic minority representation.

            Functional democracy my arse.
            • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.3.1

              14 September 2015 at 5:24 pm

              Israel was founded on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, at gun point, in the 1930s and 1940s.
              • Tracey …

                15 September 2015 at 9:40 am

                …and on the guilt/bigotry of the “winners’ and the massive displacement of jews and their understandable lack of desire to return to their homelands.

                Rarely is the world as black and white as you have just tried to paint it CV.
11. North 11

    14 September 2015 at 9:26 am

    Can’t you just see it ?……Hoha Hoorah Hameron’s next audience with Her Majesty…….red leather box spinning at 1200 rpm on top of head…….streaming red clown nose……eyes swivelling wildly a la Marty Feldman…….Madge (crossly) – “Oh do shut up you STUPID boy !……it’s me round here’s born to rule. I’ll have your ‘phone please. Now sit ! Back corgis……back !”
    • dukeofurl 11.1

      14 September 2015 at 3:29 pm

      Lets see if he turns down the purely ceremonial membership of the privy council.
      Pointless exercise that they should be getting rid of, harks back to medieval times when the Privy council ran things.
12. Karen 12

    14 September 2015 at 9:38 am

    The Spinoff has collected some NZ responses about the Corbyn win. They make interesting reading. The one that appealed to me most was from political veteran Jim Anderton. The Labour MPS chosen to contribute are all Blairites in various degrees so their responses were as expected. Adern and Robertson were typically careful of expressing any strong views. James Shaw’s was good in parts but I am still not sure what he stands for.

    http://thespinoff.co.nz/13-09-2015/politics-corbyn-blimey-what-does-the-british-labour-election-result-mean/

    I also like what Andrew Little said in the Herald this morning.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11512529
    • The lost sheep 12.1

      14 September 2015 at 10:33 am

      Little “We will certainly be looking very keenly to see how he goes.”

      Read as – we’ll do nothing until we see whether it gains any traction with middle voters.
      If it looks like it is doing so in the U.K., we’ll very cautiously try a few tentative steps leftwards here ourselves and see how voters react. And if it doesn’t work in the U.K. we will have done nothing and so will have nothing to lose.

      In the meantime we’ll continuing leading from the back in the manner that has been so successful for us over the previous 7 years…
      • Bob 12.1.1

        14 September 2015 at 2:42 pm

        +1 Exactly how I took it as well
      • Rodel 12.1.2

        14 September 2015 at 9:33 pm

        Lost sheep – No -When Little said ” We will certainly be looking very keenly to see how he goes.” he means, ” We will certainly be looking very keenly to see how he goes.”

        Read as: We will certainly be looking very keenly to see how he goes.”

        Capiche?
    • Bob 12.2

      14 September 2015 at 2:46 pm

      Judith Collins actually made sense for a change as well, after her obligatory snide remark to start that is:

      “No matter how deluded and economically illiterate Jeremy Corbyn might seem to any centre-right voter, at least he stands for something. You know what you’re getting. UK Labour’s core voters want some reason to stand proudly for something. They need some reason to volunteer for the party, some reason to bother to vote.

      At its best, politics is the contest of ideas. It shouldn’t be about playing the game. It shouldn’t be about doing anything to win. It’s only by galvanising the base, by giving people a reason to care, that those more centrist will give the party a chance. If a party’s base doesn’t see why they’re bothering, then why should anyone else. No matter what side of politics people are, it’s always easiest to sell policies that you believe in.”
      • Tracey 12.2.1

        14 September 2015 at 3:02 pm

        the irony is her total lack of self awareness in calling someone else deluded and economically illiterate.
      • RedBaronCV 12.2.2

        14 September 2015 at 8:07 pm

        And in sentence one sledging the man ( deluded & economically illiterate) not the contesting the ideas. Own goal there Judith
    • Saarbo 12.3

      14 September 2015 at 9:54 pm

      Gould’s response was the best. As for Robertson and Adern, small minded/small world responses….I really do think Labour needs to ensure it doesn’t promote career politicians, too much political theory, not enough conviction. Hopeless.
13. AmaKiwi 13

    14 September 2015 at 10:03 am

    DEAD MEN WALKING . . . out of Parliament

    Andrew and Grant, you’re wrong, dead wrong.

    Andrew Little: “Corbyn’s plain-speaking approach won party members over.” (TV3) He “represents a reaction against the legacy of Tony Blair.” (NZ Herald).

    Grant Robertson “cautions against assuming policies that have proved popular in one country (UK) will be popular in another (NZ).” (TV3)

    This is not about style, it’s about substance.

    After decades of corporatocracy, environmental suicide, and Anglo-American militarism, a tsunami of pent up rage is crashing down on incumbents.

    Wake up Labour MPs. The revolution is at the gates.
    • Puckish Rogue 13.1

      14 September 2015 at 10:19 am

      In the UK maybe (but probably not) but not in NZ
    • BM 13.2

      14 September 2015 at 10:20 am

      NZ is NOT the UK.

      Apart from the skin color of the majority demographic, there’s quite a bit of difference.
      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 13.2.1

        14 September 2015 at 10:35 am

        “NZ is NOT the UK.

        Apart from the skin color of the majority demographic, there’s not a lot of similarity.”

        Maybe? Maybe not. Read this article.http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/71970485/Fast-50-Values-driven-employees-changing-company-cultures

        “Fast 50: Values-driven employees changing company cultures
        Deloitte director Victoria Yeo said one of the main forces behind this increased focus was the shift of the workplace demographic towards more millennial employees.
        “Never before have we had so many different generations in the workforce,” she said.
        Along with the increasing number of millennials and their new approaches to work came less loyalty, which was not as terrible as it might sound.

        “We’re finding they’re now becoming more interested in doing meaningful work and not necessarily focused on career ambitions. They want to do work that resonates with their values,” Yeo said.”

        “And the times, they are a-changing!”
        Corbyn exudes values, not BS. There are more younger people wanting to make a positive difference to the world rather than exploit others and the environment.
    • maui 13.3

      14 September 2015 at 10:40 am

      ^^This is absolutely transferable to NZ and these guys know it, heh.
      • Puckish Rogue 13.3.1

        14 September 2015 at 11:03 am

        Yes because the Internet/Mana Party and Green Party wern’t quite left wing enough to inspire the masses to vote
    • Citizen's Resistance 13.4

      14 September 2015 at 11:06 am

      The Tories here should be concerned there is a swell of resentment towards the power elite who have been in control for far too long. The young are seeing a bleak future ahead for themselves, unless they actively engage in resisting what is being dealt to them under the current neo liberal platform.
    • Muttonbird 13.5

      14 September 2015 at 11:14 am

      Haha. The right wing trolls didn’t like that, Amakiwi. Two of them leapt out of their seats straight away.
      • Puckish Rogue 13.5.1

        14 September 2015 at 11:29 am

        Tell you what, when Nationals polling under 40% and John Key is under 50% approval I’ll concede there may be something
        • Grant 13.5.1.1

          14 September 2015 at 1:36 pm

          You must have missed this comment by Swordfish:

          http://thestandard.org.nz/jeremy-corbyn-wins/#comment-1069910

          I’d love to see you debate the figures with him. Please do.
          • Puckish Rogue 13.5.1.1.1

            14 September 2015 at 2:50 pm

            Lets see the proof of his figures first
            • swordfish 13.5.1.1.1.1

              14 September 2015 at 3:54 pm

              For my claim that “Key’s been averaging 39% Preferred PM in the TV Polls” ……
              The poll results are readily accessible on the net…I’ll let you do the work. But, what you’ll find is:
              Last 2 Colmar Brunton’s (One News) have Key on 40% Preferred PM
              Last 2 Reid Research Polls (3 News) put him on 38% and 39%
              = average a smidgen over 39%

              For my claim that “The TV Polls have had the Opposition Bloc a few points ahead of the Govt/Right Bloc for a number of months now”

              Well, just look for yourself
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election
              You do the math

              Last 4 TV (Colmar Brunton/Reid Research) Polls =
              Oppo Bloc…. Govt Bloc ….Broad Right

              ……….51……………48………………..48
              ……….51……………48………………..49
              ……….52……………48………………..48
              ……….50……………48………………..50
              (Broad Right = Govt+Con)
              • Puckish Rogue …

                14 September 2015 at 4:25 pm

                Fine then i’ll add a caveat that when the polling is consistant over at least a year then I’ll concede theres something to worry about which is not bad considering Labours poor polling has been going on for years
                • Grant …

                  14 September 2015 at 4:31 pm

                  lol
                • Tracey …

                  15 September 2015 at 9:44 am

                  “Tell you what, when Nationals polling under 40% and John Key is under 50% approval I’ll concede there may be something”

                  Fair enough, half way there then 😉
14. Karen 14

    14 September 2015 at 10:24 am

    The so called threat to security is being used by all the Tory MPs it seems.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-called-jeremy-corbyn-6435223

    The article says the idea comes from George Osbourne, but I’m picking Crosby Textor advice.
    • Naturesong 14.1

      14 September 2015 at 11:08 am

      Political incumbents seeking to criminalise their opponents has a far longer history than Crosby Textor
    • Colonial Viper 14.2

      14 September 2015 at 1:00 pm

      by the way, if someone is labelled by the PM as a threat to national security, then the country’s security services are fully justified in putting that person under heightened 24/7 surveillance, regardless of whether or not they are a political leader. One step closer to a police/surveillance state.
      • hoom 14.2.1

        14 September 2015 at 4:11 pm

        That is my immediate thought too.
        Its an incredibly serious few words there.

        Is this seriously the PM of a Western Democracy officially labeling the Leader of the Opposition and his party as a threat to National Security???!!!

        This is surely an unprecedented and outrageous statement that is a severe Constitutional concern and throws into doubt the legitimacy of him retaining the position of the PM.

        The Queen should be having some serious words with Cameron in private at the very least and frankly I would like to see her make a public statement on the matter.
        • The Chairman 14.2.1.1

          14 September 2015 at 5:22 pm

          +1
      • The Chairman 14.2.2

        14 September 2015 at 4:48 pm

        People did warn terrorist laws would target the innocent.
      • Gabby 14.2.3

        14 September 2015 at 6:34 pm

        Like he isn’t already.
    • the pigman 14.3

      14 September 2015 at 7:37 pm

      I’m with you on this Karen – the way they adopt a common lexicon (see “decade of deficits”) hoping that it’ll catch on in the MSM and popular consciousness is utterly transparent. Vintage Crosby Textor.

      Unfortunately, they picked a pretty outrageous and wordy little packet of language to flap around – won’t catch on with the man on the Claphman Omnibus – widely ridiculed already and my guess is it’ll be replaced by something much punchier once they’ve heard back from the focus groups across the country.
15. maui 15

    14 September 2015 at 10:30 am

    Not only have they got ISIS to worry about there’s this new force called the LBP under al-Corbynairi.
16. adam 16

    14 September 2015 at 10:30 am

    I love how the right wing are freaking out. This is so much fun.

    May I remind those on the left.

    Having a back bone and speaking true to power – is always a good choice.
17. AmaKiwi 17

    14 September 2015 at 10:50 am

    You’re right. NZ is entirely different from the UK. I stand corrected.

    Unlike the UK, NZ does NOT have:

    – ever widening gulf between the super-rich and the rest of us,
    – relentless selling off of public assets because privatization is more efficient,
    – cuts to all forms of support for the less fortunate,
    – closing down family farms to be replaced with foreign owned corporate farms,
    – middle class poverty, (full-time workers don’t earn enough to live on),
    – destruction of unions and undermining workplace safety,
    – a flood of wealthy foreigners buying up London,
    – obsequious obedience to America and its corporate oligarchy,
    – manufactured fear of Muslims, all of whom might be terrorists,
    – wearing down the public health system so private medicine makes more money.

    I don’t know about Cameron’s environmental policies, but I am sure they are not even remotely similar to NZ’s.

    No, there is nothing similar between NZ and the UK. You’re right . . . very, very right.
    • Pat 17.1

      14 September 2015 at 10:54 am

      and nor do we have a RW administration guided by Crosby Textor
18. Facetious 18

    14 September 2015 at 10:54 am

    It will all end up in bitter tears for Corbyn. It is only a matter of time, as predicted by the bookies.
    • cogito 18.1

      14 September 2015 at 12:44 pm

      I had an email yesterday from my elderly mother in Hertfordshire.

      Her description of Corbyn went like this:
      “extremely left wing in the old Arthur Scargill mould, scruffy, rude.”

      LOL. LOL. 🙂

      Poor bloke, no chance!
      • AmaKiwi 18.1.1

        14 September 2015 at 1:32 pm

        I’ll bet she would have said the same of Micky Savage.
      • Colonial Viper 18.1.2

        14 September 2015 at 1:35 pm

        I had an email yesterday from my elderly mother in Hertfordshire.

        Your elderly mother is a blue rinse Tory who probably remembers Thatcher as that lovely woman.
        • cogito 18.1.2.1

          14 September 2015 at 5:58 pm

          Correct, LOL.

          Mind you, I was also a big Maggie fan back then. Different times.

          But I was also a big Tony Benn fan.

          In their different ways, they were both people of principle, and that is what I respected about them.
    • Editractor 18.2

      14 September 2015 at 1:26 pm

      The same bookies who originally had him at 100:1, 200:1 and 980:1 to win the leadership contest? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc880770-40fc-11e5-9abe-5b335da3a90e.html
      • Tracey 18.2.1

        14 September 2015 at 3:03 pm

        touche
19. Karen 19

    14 September 2015 at 11:25 am

    Jeremy Corbyn has made John McDonnell his shadow chancellor (NZ equivalent is Finance Minister).

    McDonnell is the guy who gave that great speech against welfare cuts where he said he’d swim through vomit to vote against the bill:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rxKXw7O_pQ&feature=youtu.be
    • AmaKiwi 19.1

      14 September 2015 at 1:37 pm

      You’ll never hear Grant Robertson make a speech like that.
      • The Chairman 19.1.1

        14 September 2015 at 5:19 pm

        Indeed. In fact, didn’t our Labour lot support the latest welfare reform?
        • Colonial Viper 19.1.1.1

          14 September 2015 at 5:41 pm

          yes.

          Last thing Labour wants to be accused of is being soft on benes.
          • The Chairman 19.1.1.1.1

            14 September 2015 at 6:00 pm

            Funnily enough, a policy of increasing benefits would muster them a lot of support, especially in the non voting crowd.

            NZ has a high number of beneficiaries.

            Moreover, beneficiaries tend to spend their weekly incomes, which would help boost business demand, hence also help gain their support.
            • rhinocrates 19.1.1.1.1.1

              14 September 2015 at 9:08 pm

              Actually I feel a deep sense of gratitude for Mumblefuck. So much I’d be willing to paint his roof for free.

              The trouble for him is though that I’d paint an ISIS flag and a bullseye.
    • The Chairman 19.2

      14 September 2015 at 8:54 pm

      Now that is a speech I resonate with, Karen.
20. johnm 20

    14 September 2015 at 11:57 am

    David Cameron

    “The Labour Party is now a threat to our national security, our economic security and your family’s security.”
    The little fascist prick doesn’t like real democracy where ordinary people’s concerns are represented!

    Jeremy Corbyn a Whole Bloody SuperNova just Burst Open

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIDZv2mYnic
    • johnm 20.1

      14 September 2015 at 8:27 pm

      Jeremy Corbyn’s Seismic Victory
      by Oliver Tickell

      ” We can therefore expect the entire ‘centre ground’ of British political thought to shift markedly to the left – in the process exposing the current government as the exteme right-wing ideologues they are. ”

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/11/jeremy-corbyns-seismic-victory/
21. Paul Campbell 21

    14 September 2015 at 12:06 pm

    Don’t forget lots of people on the left quit the Labour because of Blair and his war, I’ve seen a bunch of tweets from old friends gleefully joining again now that the party is again something they feel they can support – it’s not all new kids and young tories signing up
    • Colonial Viper 21.1

      14 September 2015 at 1:03 pm

      Having left wing members come back to the Labour Party is the last thing that Tory Labour MPs want; they want the party to themselves.
      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1

        14 September 2015 at 5:18 pm

        Unfortunately for them having Old Time Labourites rejoin will probably spell the end of their careers. I don’t think that there’s going to be a lot of forgiveness when it comes time to select candidates for the electorates.
        • Colonial Viper 21.1.1.1

          14 September 2015 at 5:39 pm

          In theory that’s the way that it would work but unfortunately most of these MPs have filled up their electorate organisations with fans, friends and family members. Moving any of them on will be very difficult.
      • Tracey 21.1.2

        15 September 2015 at 9:45 am

        tou-bloody-che
    • Raf 21.2

      14 September 2015 at 3:32 pm

      Hence Corbyn’s slogan Welcome to the Party and Welcome Home.
22. Sabine 22

    14 September 2015 at 1:13 pm

    good read

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/what-corbyn-moment-means-left

    “The big problem with Corbyn is that he throws the collapsed vacuum of mainstream Labour rhetoric into sharp relief. None of the other three leadership candidates has a single memorable political idea beyond the idea of themselves as leader. The anointed heirs of New Labour appear to believe in nothing apart from their right to rule – and they seem agnostic about even that, given the invertebrates they have put up against the Corbyn threat.”
23. Alan W 23

    14 September 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Whilst I disagree with his policies, I actually feel a bit sorry for JC, he is hopelessly ill prepared for the role he has been thrust into. He has spent 30 years in parliament whistling from the side lines, not actually running anything; now he is expected to run everything, an enormous ask.
    • dukeofurl 23.1

      14 September 2015 at 3:24 pm

      Was no different to Blair !
    • Draco T Bastard 23.2

      14 September 2015 at 5:15 pm

      I suspect 32 years of experience have taught him a thing or three and that he’s probably better prepared than say, John Key or David Shearer.
    • Clemgeopin 23.3

      14 September 2015 at 6:26 pm

      He didn’t HAVE the admin experience because he was NOT given it by the people in power. Now they are out of power unless they want it and it is Corbyn’s turn now. Corbyn has indicated he wants an united inclusive group. What a great guy!
      So it is up to them.
24. Facetious 24

    14 September 2015 at 3:04 pm

    Corbyn shoul follow Merkel’s example and run on opening the gates to thousands of Syrian refugees. That will win him and Labour power, will it not?
    • Colonial Viper 24.1

      14 September 2015 at 3:35 pm

      Simply stopping the UK bombing Syrians will be a great help.
25. joe90 25

    14 September 2015 at 3:06 pm

    Burn.

    Jeremy Cliffe Verified account
    ‏@JeremyCliffe

    10/20 The inevitable Godfrey Bloom moment – like any “plain speaking” politician, Corbyn will attract fantasists & gaffe-prone troublemakers

    humphiebackit ‏@Humphiebackit Sep 12

    @JeremyCliffe: …”Corbyn will attract fantasists & gaffe-prone troublemakers” – unlike David Cameron who has chosen so wisely #gaffeprone

    https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/642683885420212224
26. Smilin 26

    14 September 2015 at 3:24 pm

    Well isnt Camerons comment the most undemocratic response ever uttered by a PM next to Keys Get some Guts and the ruby player from over the ditch who grunted something but I cant remember what
    • Clemgeopin 26.1

      14 September 2015 at 6:35 pm

      “and the ruby player from over the ditch who grunted something but I cant remember what”

      He said,
      ‘Quick, see my budgie smuggling now, before I get kicked in my gonads within the next few hours and thrown out’

      [Warning: For adults only and…Don’t see if you are eating dinner]
27. The Chairman 27

    14 September 2015 at 3:36 pm

    “The Labour Party is now a threat to our national security”

    Who would of thought being a lefty would result in this?

    Won’t be long before they are all rounded up and classed as terrorists.
    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      14 September 2015 at 3:49 pm

      If you look at recent history this is how pro capitalist governments routinely dealt with socialist and communist movements through the early and mid 20th century. McCarthyism anyone?
      • Draco T Bastard 27.1.1

        14 September 2015 at 5:13 pm

        Yep. The threat to our society always seems to come from the right.
      • Tracey 27.1.2

        15 September 2015 at 9:47 am

        Was thinking the same thing CV. It’s as though if you dont overtly punish and shame people for being left (through committees and blacklists) you are not behaving badly toward them or in any kind of way shaming them.
28. feijoa 28

    14 September 2015 at 6:01 pm

    I hope Corbyn is ready for what’s coming at him from the right.
    Like, forgetting a letter he wrote 10 years ago,……….
29. Hello 29

    14 September 2015 at 6:37 pm

    It’s doom doom doomed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RIgs3eygo
30. The lost sheep 30

    14 September 2015 at 7:06 pm

    ‘Old-fashioned, male-dominated politics’: Shock among Jeremy Corbyn’s own MPs as all the most senior shadow Cabinet roles are handed to men

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet-chuka-umunna-leaves-front-bench-over-key-points-of-difference-with-new-leader-10499249.html
    • BM 30.1

      14 September 2015 at 7:13 pm

      I’m sure he’ll include a women or two in such critical roles as Minister of afternoon tea or Minister of all things pretty.
    • half crown 30.2

      14 September 2015 at 7:35 pm

      Like Abbot is Oz only has ONE female in his cabinet,
31. Huginn 31

    14 September 2015 at 7:26 pm

    Cameron’s previous tweet also worth thinking about:

    ‘we won’t just balance the books, we will lay the foundation for the most radical and most progressive government of our times. (2/2)

    (https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/642310134400700416?s=03)
    • Tracey 31.1

      15 September 2015 at 9:48 am

      When up is down and black is white

      progressive
      prəˈɡrɛsɪv/
      adjective
      1.
      happening or developing gradually or in stages.
      “a progressive decline in popularity”
      synonyms: continuing, continuous, increasing, growing, developing, ongoing, intensifying, accelerating, escalating; More
      2.
      (of a person or idea) favouring social reform.
      “a relatively progressive Minister of Education”
      noun
      1.
      an advocate of social reform.
      “people tend to present themselves either as progressives or traditionalists on this issue”
      synonyms: innovator, reformer, reformist, liberal, libertarian, progressivist, progressionist, leftist, left-winger; formalneoteric
      “people present themselves as progressives or traditionalists”

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