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Unbecoming & out of touch

Written By: - Date published: 12:17 pm, November 6th, 2012 - 171 comments
Categories: Minister for International Embarrassment - Tags:

I just wonder in what world John Key thinks that it’s OK for the PM to go around slagging off and insulting people in public. Planet Key, perhaps. Why does he think it’s OK for him to call a visitor to our country ‘”thick as batshit”? Why does he think that it’s not homophobic to use “gay” as an insult (and that it’s OK to attack people just for wearing red)? And does he think it’s not hurtful when he says “gay” is a synonym for “weird”?

Is he just that out of touch?

171 comments on “Unbecoming & out of touch”

  1. vto 1

    Key is out of touch. But that is hardly surprising – he worked for merchant banks and then went into parliament. Where would he ever have been exposed to planet earth?

    As for his comments re Beckham and gay shirts – exposes his shallow nature and understanding of the world. Also exposes his nasty side. I have always maintained that people are better judged by their nasty side rather than their pleasant side. Most everyone has an ok pleasant side but it is those with the heavy nasty side that are the dangers and the true haters that one needs to be wary of …

  2. Enough is Enough 2

    His ‘gay’ comment is nothing short of hate speech which has no place in our society.

    He is so out of touch and has once again committed a crime by inciting and encouraging more hatred by his loyal supporters.

    The poor kiwi’s in London at the moment. They must be copping incredible grief from the English as a result of being associated with this homophobic hater who has also damaged this nations relationship with the UK.

    • insider 2.1

      It’s such a long way short of hate speech I really wonder how you could lose so much perspective. You may as well indict most 9-14 year old school boys too.

      Do you really think it will come to any surprise to a Brit that DB might not be considered the brightest? You don’t know much about their culture. A Posh and Becks joke just won best one liner at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival

      “You know who really gives kids a bad name? Posh and Becks.” (the next line is ‘or thick and thin as I call them’)

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        insider your standards are so low, its no wonder you think the NZ Prime Minister can speak in this way to teenage girls, about notable foreign nationals.

        • vto 2.1.1.1

          CV, insider is clearly one of John Key’s kind. They will no doubt vote for each other.

          Unfortunately they cannot seem to see that getting humour at the expense of others is boorish, boring, rude and not even funny – except to people who are boorish, boring, rude and not even funny. Their brains don’t extend very far..

        • insider 2.1.1.2

          I didn’t say I thought the Beckham comment was acceptable. I thought it was pretty gay. But it’s hardly likely to damage “this nations relationship with the UK”

          • crashcart 2.1.1.2.1

            Why would you think gay people would say that Becks is stupid? I am sure they have a range of view’s.

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.2

            Insider, you thought that the PM’s “Gay” comment was “Gay”?

            Seriously???

            • insider 2.1.1.2.2.1

              No not seriously. I should have put a smiley there.

              • Jim Nald

                The trick is to let loose a few kicks, derogatory and insulting, and then say you are joking. It’s a laff. All good on Planet Key.

          • framu 2.1.1.2.3

            “I didn’t say I thought the Beckham comment was acceptable”

            really?

            “Do you really think it will come to any surprise to a Brit that DB might not be considered the brightest? You don’t know much about their culture. A Posh and Becks joke just won best one liner at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival”

            • insider 2.1.1.2.3.1

              In response to “They must be copping incredible grief from the English as a result of being associated with this homophobic hater who has also damaged this nations relationship with the UK.”

              • framu

                context is everything :-)

                • fatty

                  Insider struggles with context…a joke at the fringe festival is OK, therefore a comment by a prime minister is OK.
                  Frankie Boyle kind of humour is for a comedy stage, and its funny there…but when a prime minister sinks to that level its embarrassing

        • Fisiani 2.1.1.3

          I hear that in the UK Beckham is known as Bottle. Because his comments show he is empty from the neck up.
          Gay used to mean happy, then it morphed into homosexual, then it morphed into munted. Get over it. Words change their meaning. The gay gay was gay uses all three meanings. The bandage was wound around the wound.
          These threads are increasingly purely a vehicle for hate speech re John Key, the greatest ever Prime Minister in NZ history.Absolute frustration at the political impotence of such fevered attacks to convince others. Bewildered as to how the vast majority of people not only fail to take offense but actually further warm to a really likeable and genuine guy. It just shows that the hard Left are really out of touch .

          • PlanetOrphan 2.1.1.3.1

            lol, maybe you should poll Christchurch or Northland for your beloved leader.

          • vto 2.1.1.3.2

            shut up nigger

            [lprent: And even with the relevant context, when directed at another commentator, I’m not impressed by this. Repetition (by anyone) is likely to result in bans ]

          • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.3.3

            The Sun newspaper hard left? Don’t tell Rupert Murdoch, he’s got enough bad news to deal with!

      • crashcart 2.1.2

        Big difference between a comedian in a comedy routine insulting a guy and the PM doing it after the same guy did a favour by meeting his son.

        The almost accepted use of gay to represent things that aren’t trendy or abnormal is incredibly harmful should be discouraged not encouraged. No you may not be thinnking “I hate gays’s” when you say “what a gay red shirt”. However any gay who hears you is thinking “why is a weird shirt being compared to me?” Key rather than encouraging this should be smarter and avoid the stupidity.

        • insider 2.1.2.1

          Gay is a word with a long and varied history. Why should one group get to define it? Can I similarly never use queer or queen or faggot or bent without risking offense?

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.2.1.1

            yeah insider still trying to redefine words to protect Key. FFS I cant wait until you pull out the latin roots.

            • insider 2.1.2.1.1.1

              Gay is germanic is origin. Classics fail

              • Colonial Viper

                Oh i forgot to put a smiley there

              • Te Reo Putake

                It’s French, insider. Bigot Fail.

                • insider

                  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gay

                  Origin of GAY

                  Middle English, from Anglo-French gai, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gāhi quick, sudden
                  First Known Use: 14th century

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Yep, like I said, French in the relatively modern meaning (up to last century). Or Indo-European in the original. German was just a minor and irrelevant sidestep on the way to where we are today.

                  • McFlock

                    OMG, he was saying that the shirt was “sudden”???

                    Fucksake, this is not a definition contest here we find whatever obscure, archaic or imaginary definition that isn’t a bigoted derogatory slur.

                    The dude used a word that many people in this country use to describe some aspect of themselves, and he used it in a derogatory way. Keep polishing that turd.

          • Lightly 2.1.2.1.2

            yes. words’ meanings change but that’s irrelevant. The meaning with which Key used ‘gay’ was ‘weird, effeminate, relating to homosexuals’ – which gets its meaning as an insulting use of a word for homosexuals.

            When you call something ‘gay’ you’re saying it’s ‘bad, like homosexuals’

            • insider 2.1.2.1.2.1

              Using that criteria gay should be very offensive to homosexuals, as its previous incarnation was to do with prostitution and sexual licentiousness. Are you calling all gays slappers or willng to put out for cash?

              • Colonial Viper

                You still rewriting the dictionary to suit John Key, insider?

                • insider

                  Just using facts CV. I know that goes against your constitution

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Glad you endorse a PM who tries to impress teenage girls by slagging others off.

                    • Bob

                      CV, how about the hypocracy from you, so it is fine for Hone Harawira to call National MP’s ‘House Niggers’, as you were happy to repeat here http://thestandard.org.nz/unqualified-teachers-in-charter-schools-condemned/#comment-518632 but it’s wrong for John Key to say ‘Gay red shirt’? According to dictionary.com’s meaning for the word ‘Nigger’ it is an “Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, ignorant, etc.”, don’t worry that there are other meanings for the word, because we should only focus on the version that offends people if an MP says it.

                      Blue Leopard same for you
                      http://thestandard.org.nz/poverty-watch-2/#comment-519464

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Oh Bob, that’s cute.

                      Hone Harawira was making a political point with his ‘House Niggers’ comment.

                      What political point was Key making with his “Gay” comment, and with his “Batshit Thick” comment?

                    • felix

                      Also Bob, that comment was made in reference to maori Party MPs. How would it make any sense to make it about National MPs?

                      You do know what the term means, don’t you?

                      Seeing as you gave a dictionary definition of “nigger” instead of “house nigger”, I’m guessing that you don’t know what it means.

                      (Or that you do, and you know that your outrage would seem ridiculous and out of place if you admitted that you knew, so you pretended he just called them “niggers” instead. Lame, dude.)

                    • Bob,

                      I have not commented on the use of the word of “gay”, I have mixed responses to it, in general and in appropriate context I can find the use of it amusing, however I understand the arguments re the negative effects such speech can have.

                      The only comments I have made on this thread, is that I find our PM is simply a puppet-boy of Crosy-Textor advise and isn’t and shouldn’t be viewed as anything other than that. Did that upset you, Bob?

                      Despite not being in this conversation, you, Bob draw me in, clearly not liking my reference to us all as ‘multi-coloured house-niggers’ a few months ago. I continue to believe that is exactly what we are. When we all stop acting like such, I will change my views and not before.

                      Are you going to answer CV’s question, Bob?

                    • Bob

                      So CV, in your opinion it is okay to use hate speak when you are using it in political terms? Or is it just that you can use the full context of the sentence it was used in when its a ‘left wing’ politician but single out words in a sentence, removing context, to chastise somone when its a ‘right wing’ politician?

                      I think the context in which John Key used the word ‘Gay’ was mildly inappropriate given his position (remember, the word does have multiple meanings that are completely acceptable, would you stop your children watching the Flintstones because they have a ‘Gay ‘ol time’? Would you not eat ‘Gaytime’ icecream cones because they are bigoted?), but hardly worth getting upset about!

                      Felix, do some reading http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7623209/Harawiras-N-bomb-directed-at-National-MPs (is there some underlying racism there Felix, making assumptions about it being the Maori party? You know what they say about people in glass houses) and you are singling out the word ‘Gay’ in John Key’s sentence, what’s the difference?

                      Blue Leopard, apologies for dragging you in, just saw your name in the thread above while I was looking for CV’s comments, noted the anti-National stance to your ‘Crosby-Textor PR guys’ post and without further reading (sort of like Felix) jumped the gun adding in your ‘House Niggers’ quote. As for answering CV, done.

                    • mike e

                      Bob Hone got more than enough stick over his comments he’s the leader of a very minor party not the PM of our country

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Ahhhhh Bob, you’re so cute, I mean GAY, when you obfuscate.

                    • felix

                      ‘the fuck are you on about Bob? Do you know what the term means or not?

                      Why are you still pretending he called them “niggers” rather than “house niggers”?

                      Do you really not understand the point he was making? I find it hard to believe you’re that thick.

                    • Bob

                      Thanks CV, but I wasn’t obfuscating, I even used small words to help you understand.

                      Felix, I know what the term ‘House Negro’ is, as it was coined by Malcolm X, Hone Harawira took it to a whole new level when he said ‘House Niggers’, and if it was in reference to what Malcolm X spoke about then yes I understand the point he was trying to make, but it doesn’t excuse the fact you take what Hone Harawira said in context (even when he added the word ‘Niggers’ himself, but apparently I can’t single that out), then single out one word that John Key says without taking that in context.

                      [lprent: I haven’t been interrupting the language lessons except when the language was directed against another commentator. But I’m keeping an eye on it in case it goes to excess and drops into a flamewar. ]

          • karol 2.1.2.1.3

            Gay is a word with a long and varied history. Why should one group get to define it? 
             
            Why not?  Your knowledge of socio-linguistic history is very shallow.  At the time in the 60s/70s, there were no positive words for homosexuals.  Get that?  There was NO way to talk about homosexuality that didn’t involve using words with negative associations.  I guess they could have made up a word, but it’d have been a hard slog to get anyone to use it.
             
            So campaigners opted for “gay” as a word to redefine.  This is because, in common language it also had positive associations.  The campaigning was largely successful.
             
            But in recent times there has been a move in the homophobic school-yard to undo all that hard campaigning work, and make “gay” again a sneer word.  Some gay people are trying to show young people why it’s a problem to use “gay” as a sneer.
             
            Totally irresponsible of a Prime Minister to jump on board with the schoolyard sneer, in order to try to win their support.  he should be setting a better example than that.
             
            Language is always changing – some times it’s political like any other human activity, and requires intervention.

      • bbfloyd 2.1.3

        Don’t be so uteerly thick innie…. This is our PRIME MINISTER acting like a homopobic teenage bully…. not just some nameless schoolboy with a stunted emotional developement issue….

        He is our LEADER, and as such, is expected to conduct himself with the dignity that office requires…..

        Go down to your local high school, and engage your empathy with the bully’s on the playground if you truly beleive that crap you talk….. leave the grownup stuff to those who understand what “grownup” means…

        • insider 2.1.3.1

          point is floyd, it’s not a bullying term. It’s morphed to something much much less. Key likes to be liked and uses language to get in with the crowd. It doesn’t grate well with me at times but it works for him. Stuff poll has the majority accepting it as a joke – reasonably even split but if a US presidential election it’d be a landslide.

          • McFlock 2.1.3.1.1

            yeah, it is a bullying term. Just FYI.

          • shorts 2.1.3.1.2

            given Key’s age, it most certainly was meant in a insulting and homophobic manner, albeit one he personally finds amusing

            gutless he tries to blame his son for his usage of the term

          • crashcart 2.1.3.1.3

            When I was young it was not uncommon to hear people refer to a job not done properly or half done as a Maori Job. This was completely normal and most people didn’t bat an eyelid when used. Didn’t change that it was an incredably racist thing to say. Your use of gay is similar. Claiming its common use doesn’t make it any less insulting.

          • Enough is Enough 2.1.3.1.4

            What is your opinion on the word ‘nigger’?

            It has also changed meaning over time?

            Would it be fine for the PM to say “I was partying with my niggers last night’?

            • insider 2.1.3.1.4.1

              No skinny white boy should use that word.

              • onsos

                Here’s a hint: If you’re gonna use a term that describes a community, you do it on their terms. So you white boy should use the n-word, because of its history. Using ‘gay’ pejoratively is similar.

          • bbfloyd 2.1.3.1.5

            Sigh, Innie……So Johnny’s an obsequious crawler, and that’s ok, ’cause it works for him??

            Quoting the herald, rather than stuff,may have had more validity in proving how large the group of ignoramuses, with not even the vaguest notion of what’s acceptable for the spokesman for a whole country to publically opine and what isn’t, is,…. but not much…. The herald has to appear(in the editors mind) neutral at least…..

            Still making half arsed excuses for an excuse of a leader….

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.3.1.5.1

              bb which political party are you talking about here

              😈

              • bbfloyd

                I find that I have to stop and think before I can answer that…….sigh..

                Three words keep repeating ,,”the merry pranksters” ..over and over… and there’s glitter on the walls…Johnnies been there too..

      • Sanctuary 2.1.4

        The problem with your argument is that 9-14 year old school boys are children/adolescents. Are you really saying the comparative test for appropriate behaviour for the prime minister of an OECD member, a first world nation of some dignity, is that of the giggling inanity of pre-pubescent school boys?

        As for the Beckham comment – its cost nothing to simply be polite to people with whom you have no quarrel. Gratuitously insulting anyone for no other reason than a cheap laugh is simply rude. What next, point out a mentally impaired person and start walking funny whilst loudly saying “look, I’m spastic to”?That would probably bring the house down with the right crowd.

        Quite simply, when you occupy the supposedly dignified office of prime minister you should behave to a higher standard. We all know Key doesn’t take democratic institutions seriously, including that of the office of prime minister. It is just a pity he chooses to parade his contempt for his office in such public ways.

        • ianmac 2.1.4.1

          Really dumb for a PM trying to curry favour with youngsters by using their vernacular. I think that it was showing himself to be as thick as two planks, or maybe one plank.

        • insider 2.1.4.2

          The problem with your argument is that I’m not making that argument at all. What I said was it was far from ‘hate speech’ (which was frankly a hysterical comparison – use the definition that suits; it works as well for the two I know).

          And I’ve not defended the Becks comment – I agree it was silly and rude (if true) – but said its hardly likely to damage relations with a country that has a long history of Becks bashing.

          • onsos 2.1.4.2.1

            Point is, insider, whether it’s hate speech or not, it’s a bullying term. That’s how it’s used in schools. That’s how Key used it here. That’s how you’re using it.

            When called up on it, teenagers usually say something like, ‘Just jokes!’ Only, it’s not. Therson who is accused of being ‘gay’ is haveing their sexuality and gender identitiy questioned, and anyone who identifies as being gay is explicitly insulted.

            It is bullying. We educate teenagers about this. We expect better from someone who has the epithet ‘Right Honorable’, because they normalise discourse.

            That is a very ‘insider’ thing to do–to opt for the idiot opinion. Don’t be insulted. ‘insider’ means a few things, including idiotic. It doesn’t refer to you necessarily.

            • insider 2.1.4.2.1.1

              anything can be bullying said with the right attitude. In my experience its mostly used without any awareness of the more adult alternative meaning, knowledge required for it to be bullying in the way you describe.

              • onsos

                Pretty much every teenager knows what gay means. John Key knows this. I know this, you know this. Your comment here is moronic.

                I’ll make it clear: if you use a word that describes a group of people as an insult, you are insulting that group of people.

      • Enough is Enough 2.1.5

        We don’t indict in New Zealand and are you really comparing John Key’s hate speech to the mindless pranks of a 9 year old. Really. Is that who we hold our fuckwith of a Prime Minister up against. AWESOME leadership

        Because of Key’s homophobic rant, the problem of 9 year olds using inapproriate language will increase.

        Your defence of this homophobe tells me a lot about your own bigotry.

          • Enough is Enough 2.1.5.1.1

            Point well and truly flew you by didn’t it….

            • insider 2.1.5.1.1.1

              When you start with attempt to point score in an utterly incompetent way, don’t be surprised if people ignore the rest.

              I think you can be pretty confident that most 9 year olds don’t give a second thought to what the PM does or doesn’t say when choosing the latest playground insult.

              • Enough is Enough

                Im my view you are nothing more than bigot.

                You are justifying the PM using hate speech and have no problem with what our children will think of his remarks. This clearly shows you have no problem with homophobic bigotry in our society.

                Give yourself a slow clap…

              • Enough is Enough

                PS…when was a 9 year old last indicted. We don’t trial kids in New Zealand.

                Point scored me thinks.

                • Rob

                  wow, must be amazing being you, how righteous and superior, but of course that is the standard way. I have young kids and this is one term that is in current circulation, alongside many others that I am sure would steam you up into an a bigger lather.

                • insider

                  “we don’t trial kids in New Zealand.”

                  No but we do trial dogs.

              • mike e

                Outsider wasn’t Crusher Collins enacting new legislation to stop cyber bullying!
                Our limelight stealing leader has under mined her initiative maybe as the polls show Teflon tongued Pm sliding down we might have a leadership challenge!

    • Bob 2.2

      I am in the UK at the moment, and the general consensus from people I have spoken to here (even from my far left boss) is that he sounds like a down to earth Prime Minister and they have asked if we would swap!

      Nowhere near as PC over here, and with the exception of the low life media (that everyone over here takes with a grain of salt after the Leveson Inquiry, and the alleged BBC cover-up of Jimmy Saville), I haven’t heard a bad word said.

      So don’t worry about us EiE, if anything its raised the way Kiwi’s are viewed in UK life.

    • Richard McGrath 2.3

      Breaking News: Words can have more than one meaning.

      ‘Gay’ has had an alternative meaning other than ‘homosexual’ for several years, I first heard it used to mean ‘weird’ or generally negative in 2004. You guys should get out more.

      Oh, and rumour has it at one time the word ‘gay’ also meant happy/carefree.

      • McFlock 2.3.1

        Yeah. Funny how the word “gay” became “generally negative” after it entered widespread use to describe a particular sexual orientation.

        Oh wait, that’s the entire fucking point right there.

        • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.1

          Oh, and rumour has it at one time the word ‘gay’ also meant happy/carefree.

          That’s it. Perhaps the PM was using the 1920’s Gilded Age definition, after all, that’s where he’s trying to take the elite back to.

        • Bob 2.3.1.2

          Thanks for the history lesson McFlock, since you are so clued up on these things, can you please tell me an appropriate single word I can use for a ‘bundle of wooden sticks’? When did this change from ‘faggot’? Can I still use ‘faggot’? So hard to keep up with such a fast changing world where words just have their meanings changed without any sort of media release!

          • McFlock 2.3.1.2.1

            Bob, if you need a set of instructions on when to use particular words, you’re as emotionally clueless as our prime minister.
                   
            Given that the term “faggot” to denote a bundle of sticks is largely archaic, I’d still have the suspicion  that you were being passive-aggressively homophobic even if you used it in that inoffensive sense. It all depends on the inflection. 
                     
            The fact that some people claim to be so abjectly incapable of grasping the basics of social intercourse is … terrific (note that I acquiesce to your illogical insistence that archaic definitions must be regarded as still being in common usage).

            • Bob 2.3.1.2.1.1

              Okay, how about this one, if the PM came back from Amsterdam and talked about being in awe of the massive Dykes they have over there.
              All ‘modern’ words used in context, is he allowed to say that?

              • lprent

                Spelt dikes I believe.

                • Bob

                  Not according to this http://grammarist.com/spelling/dike-dyke/ unless you are from the US or Canada? There is even a NZ example on there for you (even though it is from the NZ Herald, so doesn’t overly help my argument).

                  • lprent

                    Always seen it spelt “dike” and that was entirely from within NZ. I have run across its usage as dyke, but main pre-20th century English material, and that was mostly about the fens. So figured it to be a regional usage for somewhere around East Anglia.

                    But I care not either way. Just spell things so that others can understand what I’m saying.

                    • Bob

                      TBH I was unsure of the spelling as well as it seems to be acceptable both ways, however, the pronounciation remains the same which was my point, if you take words out of context they can be seen as bigoted and homophobic if you want them to be. Taken in context though, they can have completely different meanings, which is where the defence of John Key’s statement comes in.
                      Words (even ones relating to homosexuality) can have multiple meetings, take the context of the entire sentence, don’t just single out one word and build an arguement on that (not you in particular lprent, more aimed at James Henderson and others that have singled out one word in a sentence).

                    • lprent

                      Problem with John Key is that he increasingly has a Paul Henry affliction. Plausible deniality only works if it doesn’t look like if it is deliberate, and repeatably having “mistakes” of the same style just spells deliberate.

                      In his case he says one thing in “private” then denies it or calls the cops if it goes public. His actual “sin” is to be thoroughly cynically hypocritical with lousy mixed messaging. These days, each instance is highlighted by many because we have seen the same lying pattern repeatably. In fact you can damn near make a rulebook about how his minders will tell him how to handle each instance.

                      He has simply over used up his credibility and is heading towards becoming political toast

              • Te Reo Putake

                If he was talking about dikes (note the spelling, fool), no problem. But if he was being as homophobic and illiterate as you, then yeah, probably a problem. But luckily, our PM is not a dull witted bigot … oh, wait …

              • mike e

                bob your a dufus

                • Bob

                  mike e, it’s “you’re” not “your”, don’t worry though, I understand what you meant, and won’t take it out of context like some people have about John Key’s comment.

              • McFlock

                Bob, 
                       
                If he said a DJ’s shirt made them look like a dyke, can you see why people might take offense? 

  3. Red Rosa 3

    http://www.independent.ie/video/video-world-news/no-apology-from-new-zealand-pm-over-beckham-is-thick-jibe-3284809.html

    Beckham comments hit the headlines in Ireland too. The above probably old news now, but well put together by ITN, once you get past the charming colleen in the ad…;)

    This really is a cringeworthy disply from Key…our PM for gawd’s sake….

  4. shorts 4

    He’s a shallow “suit”…. therefore when was he ever in touch?

  5. Lanthanide 5

    Posted on the other thread but fits this one a little better:
    I wonder if Key is actually from another century and meant to say “queer red shirt” but was trying to be street so used the modern term “gay”.

    • bbfloyd 5.1

      That’s taking apologism to new, and extreme levels…..

      • Lanthanide 5.1.1

        :roll:

      • PlanetOrphan 5.1.2

        True, u can’t defend his use of the word full stop,
        to even try and crawl into his mind says something you do not want too hear Lanthanide57

        • gobsmacked 5.1.2.1

          @Floyd/Orphan

          I think your irony detector needs new batteries 😉

          Or in simple terms: Lanth isn’t saying what you seem to think.

          • PlanetOrphan 5.1.2.1.1

            How many people are gonna try being “street” with all these comments ?

            Let alone a gay person who’s coping shit at the moment coz everyones no longer “PC” ?

            We understand what yas where saying and protesting your lack of thought.

          • bbfloyd 5.1.2.1.2

            Assumption is the mother of all F**k ups, my gnarled old grandfather used to say….Take a leap of faith gobbed one… maybe the joke will manifest itself to you too!!

  6. Matthew 6

    As Minister of Tourism, Key is doing a wonderful job of encouraging people to visit Australia.

    • bbfloyd 6.1

      To be fair though…. He may be cleverer than all of us…. there are large groups around the world that owe their existance to homophobia, xenophobia, and fear of the unknown in general….

      We could be getting lined up to become “mecca’ for those downtrodden soldiers of “gods true order”…

  7. Colonial Viper 7

    Seriously though lets get back on the game here, ie sort out an independent, well financed, powerful Mines Inspectorate AND make sure the Govt implements MMP changes as they have been recommended with none of their usual BS.

  8. King Kong 8

    As much as it was probably not the best choice of words for a Prime Minister I would bet that amongst those jumping up and down in outrage, not a single one of you was actually offended.

    All this kind of thing does is remind us why we kicked your lot out in 2008…because you are humourless, politically correct, lightbulb stealing, shower de-powering, criminal cuddling, nanny state nob heads.

    • Lightly 8.1

      What’s humourous and PC got to do with Key calling Beckham thick as batshit and using gay as an insult?

      • TightyRighty 8.1.1

        When was the last time a gay person, who didn’t use their sexuality to define everything about themselves actually get concerned by the use of gay as a derogatory term? my friends are far more concerned when people use terms like homo and faggot or the awful queer cunt. The majority of gay people, those who aren’t victims are relatively unconcerned about how it’s use has changed in mainstream culture. The same ones who understand that it originally adapted from another meaning and now see the irony in a words meaning having gone full 180.

        But keep being victims, completely forget the tale of the boy who cried wolf.

        • framu 8.1.1.1

          yeah i know plenty of gay folk you use the term pretty much to describe things they think are lame – but with full knowledge of what it might mean to others (which is the important bit), they alter their language based on present company

          Though that doesnt change the fact that there is a difference between pub talk and public talk. And key (as the PM) is expected to know the difference – unless we expect him to be some third rate comedian that even TVNZ wouldnt put on air.

          hands up who lets a swear word or two out when round the BBQ – now, hands up who also says F**k down the phone to their mum? (ok theres probably some – but you get the picture)

          ————————————————————————————–

          ” those who aren’t victims are relatively unconcerned about how it’s use”

          isnt that the point of why its not good for the PM to go round calling people thick as bat shit and describing things as gay?

        • mike e 8.1.1.2

          Tighty almighty your out of touch like your leader (trying to be cool with young ones )
          Its a highly derogatory insult.
          I have 2 teenagers at home. Your experience is money in the bank!

    • Lanthanide 8.2

      Actually I’m offended. So there you go.

      • insider 8.2.1

        Is that on behalf of all nobheads? 😉

      • alwyn 8.2.2

        I formerly worked with a chap whose surname was Gay.
        He said that he was not offended by what anyone got up to but he was very offended that they had, in his words, “stolen” his name.
        Should all homosexual males stop using the term “Gay” because he was upset?

        • crashcart 8.2.2.1

          My Grandfather Richard was always refered to as Dic. should he be offended when I refer to you as one?

          • alwyn 8.2.2.1.1

            Not in the slightest. I suppose I can consider myself privileged to share a name with your grandfather.
            My God! Perhaps I am your Grandfather. Is he still alive?

        • gobsmacked 8.2.2.2

          Words previously “stolen” …

          queer, faggot, fag, fairy, pansy … and many more.

          All these words had other meanings, BEFORE they became terms of abuse. See any good dictionary.

          Did the defenders of our language speak out against the “stealing” of those words? Did they stand alongside the victims of bigotry and (often) violence?

          If so, respect. If not, hypocrites.

        • Uturn 8.2.2.3

          No because he was in possession of the power to protect himself. He could change his name, for instance. Gays can’t chose not to be gay or chose when or where they might experience discrimination. If a person can escape or neutralise the discrimination they meet, without disadvantaging themselves, an insult is not going to cause the same level of damage as someone who has just been called a random name.

          • insider 8.2.2.3.1

            Uh oh that’s a lightening rod. Expect the fundies and catholics to turn up soon

            • Uturn 8.2.2.3.1.1

              Yeah I’ve heard about that. The problem is that their argument immediately fails the “good faith” module of Discussion 101.

        • framu 8.2.2.4

          well all those happy jolly ye-olde people can line right up and accuse him of stealing their word by that logic

    • crashcart 8.3

      Labor is Nanny State? Don’t remember them telling young people on a beneift how they were allowed to spend it. Don’t remember them decreeing that beneficiary children have to go to ECE.

      Really your only things that you can try and link to them being Nanny State (lightbulbs and shower heads) never actually happened did they. Oh sure there was a paper that said it would be a good idea but it was never policy. National have had some insane right wing papers come out during their time. Of course that doesn’t matter when you swollowed the PR line so whole heartedly does it KK. Why think for yourself when you can have a PR firm and the media do it for you.

      • ianmac 8.3.1

        The origin of the lightbulbs and shower was an Energy Committee asked to identify ways that people could save energy. Nothing to do with Labour Policy.
        That unfortunate un-funny RADAR chap did an ad for National on TV which had him revelling in a 4 X headed shower.

        • Jim Nald 8.3.1.1

          How about if blame is to be poured on the poor handling of shower heads,
          blame the man whose hands used the taxpayers’ credit card to which he charged his porn?

    • Karen 8.4

      KK I bet if it was Helen Clark who made those comments instead of this clown currently masquerading as a PM you wouldn’t be so tolerant.

      • King Kong 8.4.1

        Quite honestly I think she would have gone up in my estimation. Would have been nice to see her not being a sour faced old cow and having a laugh.

        • Colonial Viper 8.4.1.1

          Because KK prefers clowns to lead the country

          • mike e 8.4.1.1.1

            Maybe KK likes defending his fellow Circus performers.
            I have a feeling he defends the rights point of view at all costs because the left would shut down his circus over animal welfare issues ,that’s why he is so angry being stuck in a cage all day and having to perform in front of a crowd that just throw peanuts at him,That would make him bored as Batshit!
            We understand KK.

        • Hanswurst 8.4.1.2

          The thing is that Helen Clark was really, honestly a lot wittier and funnier than Key, whose “humour” consists almost entirely of regurgitating standard blokish phrases. She just didn’t see the dissemination of humorous vibes as being her role when she was appearing publicly as Prime Minister.

          • felix 8.4.1.2.1

            Listen to Key talk about his public appearances; it’s very clear that he sees himself primarily as an entertainer.

            We really do have David Brent for a PM.

            • Hanswurst 8.4.1.2.1.1

              Well, yes, it’s absolutely plain that Mr. Key sees himself as an entertainer. There is, however, often a fine line between being an entertainer and being a dick. Unfortunately, Key isn’t anywhere near that line – he’s just an out-and-out dick.

    • mike e 8.5

      primitive primate Getting a bit flustered their.
      Energy use reduction brings down power prices! A very bright idea !
      Reducing water usage with modern shower heads brings down rates something the right harps on about endlessly!(most of Europe the US and Aussie already do so!)
      Criminal cuddling National have instituted left wing policy on re offending rates rather than lockem up and throw away the key approach they campaigned on smart move from the right very unusual but successful maybe the right should try a few more left wing policies!
      Nanny state Under national more people on the benefit!
      Consultants that National are hiring are costing more than what the public servants they are sacking!

    • QoT 8.6

      not a single one of you was actually offended.

      We’re not offended, we’re contemptuous.

    • Fisiani 8.7

      You only missed out “without the good looking women”. otherwise very accurate.

  9. PlanetOrphan 9

    Can’t wait for the next KKK meeting to be reported on then ….
    I wonder what terms he’ll use there to engender friendship and love of PlanetKey ….

    Anyone defending that F’wit ever thought about “Lead By Example” fallout that he’s caused ?

    You are a bunch of ignorant tosers ….

  10. vto 10

    what was john key trying to achieve by calling Beckham thick as batshit?

  11. gobsmacked 11

    None of this is new from Key.

    “Indian giver” … Maori cannibal jokes … pandering to Paul Henry … etc.

    He hasn’t changed, he’s just no longer getting an indulgent smile and pat on the head from the media.

    (And BTW … it’s not about some tedious “leftie” versus “rightie” hack-fight. I can think of many conservatives with views on economic policy that I loathe. But they don’t all act like 10 year olds).

    • Jim Nald 11.1

      This is on to something.
      Brings to mind the kind of language heard at National Party conferences and also being around Nat MPs and their kind during board meeting tea breaks, Koru Club lounges and such like.

  12. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 12

    Someone is certainly out of touch.

    Preferred PM

    Key 65.6% (+2.1%)
    Shearer 12.9% (-1.3%)

    Source: Herald Digipoll September 2012.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      Ahhh on to phase II is it? Key is so popular he can do no wrong?

      • gobsmacked 12.1.1

        I think Gormless is saying that Key has lost 20% in the past month.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 12.1.1.1

          I am simply saying that the one thing no-one can accuse Key of is being out of touch. He has personally resonated with the public in a way that no other New Zealand politician in my lifetime has.

          • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1

            And now he’s trying to resonate with teenage school girls

          • mike e 12.1.1.1.2

            Gormless Maybe you should change your name to rumplstiltskin

          • lprent 12.1.1.1.3

            …in a way that no other New Zealand politician in my lifetime…

            There is a problem with being young and without an ability to either listen to read history nor to the voice of experience.

            Basically John Key is a mediocre politician because he is both lazy and sloppy. You can get away with charm (a job requirement for politicians) and with these lousy traits for a term as PM. But then everything starts falling in because someone mediocre as a politician will be incompetent at running the ministers in the government. Which is precisely what has happened with John Key and for that matter with David Lange.

            All I can say is that you don’t observe the past much. In another few years you’ll have most people denying that they ever voted for the useless parasite. IMO the only thing that is preventing that from happening right now in the general population is that the public can’t see anything better on offer at this point in time. But the bad thing about that is that means that Winston will start rising again….

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 12.1.1.1.3.1

              There is a problem with being young…

              Why, thank you.

              Basically John Key is a mediocre politician…

              Maybe, but the question at hand is not whether he is a good politician, but whether he is out of touch. And clearly, people love him. Not all, people, obviously. But 65.6% is a pretty good number.

  13. Hami Shearlie 13

    Considering that David Beckham was at the Royal Wedding because he is Prince William’s FRIEND, and not just a head of state like Jonkey, I would imagine that this comment didn’t go down too well with the Prince. Darn! Jonkey, you should have thought of that before you opened the big trap. We know what a little toady to royalty you are!! I wonder if Prince William will be so friendly to our “Prime Mincer” next time he visits? And I also wonder if Prince William will be wasting 45 minutes of HIS valuable time on Jonkey’s ungrateful little wretch of a son!! Key is ill-mannered and has passed this trait on to his son!! So much for the teachings of Kings College too!!!

  14. Roy 14

    John Key’s style appeals to the sort of people who make up Paul Henry’s fanbase. ‘Nuff said.

    • Bob 14.1

      You are on to something here Roy, look at how far the Breakfast ratings fell when Paul Henry left! The average NZer loves someone that speaks their mind, and as much as it has obviously caused a great amount of faux outrage here (can’t find any of these people condeming Hone Harawira for his ‘House Nigger’ jibe!) the average Joe on the street doesn’t mind, just look at the Stuff poll! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/

      • Roy 14.1.1

        We don’t have to, and should not, cater for the lowest common (very common, in fact) denominator.

  15. Blue 15

    Gotta admire the right wing attempts to excuse Johnny Sparkles over his foot-in-mouth disease.

    Saying that everyone ‘knows’ Becks is thick is pathetic – whether he is or not, John Key shouldn’t have said it. It was buying himself headlines he didn’t need.

    And if the UK wasn’t offended, it wouldn’t have been on the front page of the Sun. They don’t just put a story on the front page for shits and giggles, it’s the country’s biggest tabloid and the stories have to provoke a reaction in the public to sell.

    The righties cheerfully defend the use of the word ‘gay’ meaning ‘weird’ being completely okay and totally not offensive to gay people. A country’s Prime Minister using language that stigmatises gay people as weird is okay because teenagers do it all the time.

    Then the ‘well, at least he has a sense of humour’ cries – as if any of Johnny’s jokes are actually funny to anyone except the National MPs who have to laugh at them. I don’t think I’ve heard a single decent joke from him in the entire four years that he’s been PM.

    And then the good old ‘he’s so popular it doesn’t matter’ defence. As if being more popular than David Shearer is some sort of impressive achievement. Shit, if he was losing that race then he’d definitely be in trouble.

    Still, I can understand their anxiety. Johnny’s string of screwups is the signature of a man under pressure. If he cracks, the right will be choosing between Joyce and Collins, and that’s enough to make any Nat loyalist sweat.

    • gobsmacked 15.1

      “I don’t think I’ve heard a single decent joke from him in the entire four years that he’s been PM.”

      Too true. It’s like the BBQ bores …

      My response: roll eyes.

      “Oh, haven’t you get a sense of humour?”

      “Yes, I watch John Stewart, he makes me laugh.”

      “Who?”

      The special self-delusion of the dull, derivative and unfunny to believe that if it goes over their heads, it’s not funny. Because they are the sole arbiters of humour.

    • “I don’t think I’ve heard a single decent joke from him in the entire four years that he’s been PM.”

      Can’t remember the first part of this joke, but the punch line was something like “towards a brighter future” ?
      Then there are the other 2 jokes, again forget the first part but the punch lines.
      “less unemployment and less immigration to Australia”

  16. Chalupa Batman 16

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5781365/Upset-over-Mallard-comment

    Ah well at least no one from the left would use insulting terms about someones sexuality…

    • gobsmacked 16.1

      1) Mallard is not on the left
      2) Read the first sentence … “says he shouldn’t have”. Then link to Key saying the same.

      Next …

      • Chalupa Batman 16.1.1

        3. But he wouldn’t apologise. “It was part of a series of two way offensive comments and I got quite a lot more than I received.”

        To be honest I don’t think the comments made by Mallard and Key are that bad but I just like pointing out that the left is as bad as the right

        • gobsmacked 16.1.1.1

          But it isn’t.

          You’ll be disappointed if you’re hoping the Left will all rush to defend Mallard. I think he’s an idiot.

          Bigotry – or more often, pandering to it – is a core characterisitic of the reactionary right. Too often some on the left try and appease, but they are wrong … and usually not at all left, like a Tamihere.

          • Chalupa Batman 16.1.1.1.1

            Well to be fair I’ve thought that Labour would do better without Mallard (I mean its not like Labour would lose his seat)

            What do you think of the changing of words meaning

            ie Gay used to mean one thing then got changed to another meaning then it got reclaimed and now gay means something completely different

            • framu 16.1.1.1.1.1

              “ie Gay used to mean one thing then got changed to another meaning then it got reclaimed and now gay means something completely different”

              depends on your age though doesnt it – what do you think the word gay means to people of Keys generation?

              Im pretty sure it doesnt mean jolly or lame

            • mike e 16.1.1.1.1.2

              God you talk aload of batshit chalupi

  17. giovani 17

    Remember this. I think he was acting GAY.

    12:00 Mon Feb 7 2011MSN NZ

    Prime Minister John Key has said he was “a bit stupid” to mince down the catwalk modelling the Rugby World Cup volunteers’ uniforms last week.
    Key parodied a model by shaking his hips and flicking his head while strutting down the catwalk.

    He told TV One’s Breakfast show it was a mistake to camp it up.

    “I responded to the crowd last week, I was having a bit of fun, but I shouldn’t have done that. In my view, that was probably a bit stupid,” he said.

    “But unfortunately I get put in a gazillion situations like that… My life is out there engaging with people at a million different events and where ever I go people will start throwing balls around, doing things whatever it is.”

    Key said it was important to balance conveying his serious messages to people with interacting with them, NZPA reports.

    The PM has also come under fire in recent weeks from international media for calling British actress Liz Hurley “hot”.

    UK tabloids labelled the remarks sexist, but Key maintains his claims were not offensive.

  18. deemac 18

    as a Brit I remember when Tony Blair was the most popular politician ever and could do no wrong. Anyone who crticised was told “look how popular he is!” It took ten years for people to see through him sadly, but by then he was toxic. Key is a poor copy of Blair, with the smooth veneer of a snake oil salesman, but sooner or later the voters wise up.
    BTW David Beckham is extremely popular in the UK, particularly with minorities interestingly, despite not being renowned for his intellect. And no country takes kindly to outsiders criticising one of their own. It was rude, stupid and unnecessary – conduct unbecoming a leader.

  19. Reagan Cline 19

    His comment about the gay shirt is “not what you would say” about a shirt according to the 17 year old girl I asked today. Key’s minders should have a quiet word. Old guys who play at being youthful end up looking ridiculous. He should take a break, think STATESMAN and get rid of the toupe.

  20. Richard 20

    Personally I find John Key a bit weird. Does that mean I can say hes is gay?

    Oh, and the Beckham thing – can’t disagree with the opinion, but to say that to schoolgirls is at best tryhard, but also a bit creepy / pervy.

  21. Appleby 21

    This is just another sign that key has lost all interest. He is slipping and showing his real side. One normally tailors ones language to different settings, like at home versus the pub versus the office. This just reflects that key is getting careless and no longer aware or trying to hide his true self. This sort of comment shows him to be a real creep and indeed a borat of the south pacific.

  22. Oh dear, I think that Bomber has it spot on:

    “There are two explanations here. The first is that our PM is a dickhead who shoots his mouth off with all the willful ignorance of Michael Laws at a feminist conference or that it’s a very deliberate tactic to have Key make comments that resonate with his target bloke voter while generating enough liberal outrage to magnetize those voters towards him…..smells like Crosby-Textor ~Bomber Bradbury “

    link to his Tumeke! article

    Apologies I haven’t read all the comments in this thread and perhaps others have said or linked to the same.

    • Colonial Viper 22.1

      Key hasn’t counted on the fact that the effective half life of his little tricks is diminishing month by month.

      • blue leopard 22.1.1

        I hope so. Those PR boys know their stuff though-professional manipulators-and we do have some really bigoted attitudes that are ripe for manipulating…
        I sure hope people are tiring of it. I sure am :(

    • Saarbo 22.2

      Key is a prize wanker and his supporters probably fit that category as well. I have just noted a Stuff survey which shows 8500 votes supporting Key’s comments versus 8000 votes saying “They’re not things a PM should say”. Key is very possibly doing this on purpose as Bomber suggested.

      How can anyone support these morally repugnant arseholes. Then to add salt to the wound he states by way of apology that “Beckham is smart, he has made more money than me”…I need to throw up. 

      • blue leopard 22.2.1

        I think it is advice re Crosby-Textor PR guys. It just makes a whole lot of sense. They will be aiming at the swathe of NZers who approve of this way of talking and these attitudes. Lets face it Key isn’t clever enough to get this level of support; an American (I think) company who is dedicated to working out how to manipulate people’s attitudes and emotions for a specific self-interested aim is… Key should simply be viewed as a Crosby-Textor impersonating puppet.

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  • Continued pressure at heart of sacking
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