My own little world?

Two years ago 70 million adult Americans thought that they had been lied too and they want a new investigation.
84% of the Russian population don’t believe the official conspiracy theory.
And in Europe considerable segments of the population don’t believe the official story and that segment is growing. So I don’t feel very alone or locked up in my small conspiracy world.

The events of 911 may not be of interest to you but to 70.000 first responders and New Yorkers who are dying of the dust of the building they breathed in the attacks are still very much ongoing. Especially since their government won’t help these heroes in their struggles with medical support or money.

To the Iraqis who had nothing whatsoever to with the events of 911 the attacks are still very much going on while their country has been destroyed their lives shattered by the US army.

And to the Afghans civilians who had nothing whatsoever to do with the events of 911 the attacks are still very much going on with their country being destroyed and their lives shattered. Some of them are actually inviting the Taliban back because they feel saver under their rule.

To the family members who lost loved ones on that day and who are still looking for answers and whose attempts to find out what really happened on that day are being sabotaged at every corner by their government the attacks are still very much going on.

For the soldiers families who lost their sons and daughters are dying or who come home maimed or fucked up from the wars which were started as a result of these attacks, the attacks are still very much ongoing.

For the thousands of illegally detained “terror” suspects (amongst which children as young as 12 who have been tortured and isolated from their families for many, many years the attacks are still very much ongoing.

So perhaps this is not about you and me but about setting the record straight and allowing all these people to get some justice and closure because 7 years after these events and with every basic human right eroded in the US perhaps going back to that crucial day might not be such a bad idea. It was that day after all that made it all possible.

I really enjoyed Nicky Hager’s books and found them well researched and supported by documentation actually.

Did I say I was against money? I have to pay my rent, electricity (almost of the grid though) etc. and thank god my husband has a job he really likes but it’s amazing how you have no problem with inflation and rising prices when bartering for food. So we cover both ways of generating wealth.

Actually it was WTC 7, biggest CIA head outside of the one Virginia, Giuliani’s super bunker and twice reinforced in order to withstand a nuclear blast It also contained the dossiers of the Enron case and a great many fraud cases of Wall street bankers.

No steel framed skyscraper has collapsed due to office fires before or after 911 yet WTC 7 collapses in 6.5 seconds into a fine powder into it’s own footprint.

You know what that means? We don’t have to hire expensive firms to do controlled demolitions anymore. All we have to do is set the building on fire and let it burn four about six hours and poof dust cloud. Problem sorted.

To get back to JK you don’t enter into that one any more. In the Sunday Star Times
John Key and his boss both state that Andrew Krieger called John Key from his Bankers Trust office in New York. Conclusion; something does not add up. Either he was working with AK while AK was raiding this countries currency or he lies about the timeline.

I really would like to see those records that prove that John Key did not work with AK in 1987.

Excuse me my fun – the retort — though starve thou shalt reliably do if thine diet is solely money!

EV, I guess your keyboard is not capatible with the standard server/system.. LOL it is..

In two posts you have gone from “global leaders are talking about one world currency” to “About the global currency. We’ll see what happens eh? So far I’ve been right about the financial collapse and I’m fairly confident that it’s going to get a whole lot worse and that eventually they will come up with a global currency).”

And there are at least another dozen incidences of that in your narrative. You are not exactly covering yourself in factual glory.

And study or at least read some mainstream economics texts about how monetary policy and exchange rate mechanisms – you’ll see we dont have global pegs for a reason.

I’m not interested in the 9/11 conspiracy. Far more interesting is the wider story of the neocon influence on US policy. But thats not as interesting in the CIA planting bombs in the Deutsche Bank tower.

I stand by the gist of what I am saying: No one outside your own world of like minded conspiracy theorists will take you seriously if you ignore some facts, make up other facts, assert relationships between unrelated events, continuously read between the lines for the hidden agenda which must be there – time and time again you assert proof of a conspiracy because the lack of evidence pointing toward a conspiracy is proof that a conspiracy was successful so therefore the conspiracy must exist. It makes my head spin. Do you have any idea how many people must be complicit in order for some of these things to be true? (Thats the fourth test you get to.)

Enrol in a university course that will teach you the art of critical writing and discipline. If you approach every issue from an entrenched ideological position you wont see half the things worth seeing. The best journalists provide a survey of all relevant facts before drawing conclusions. Thats why both Nicky Hagar and Ian Wishart are crap at reaching the mainstream (despite both having put together great stories from time to time) do and only have resonance within their own political axis. Everyone else discounts them because they are “politically motivated.”
They both are guilty of ignoring obvious facts :

“And why behold you the mote that is in your brother’s eye, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye?”

And which one of your local organic food growers is growing electricity? Petrol? Cotton fabric? Computers? Internet connectivity? Medical services? Shoes? Coffee? Tea? Dentistry services? Toiletries? Paper? Telephones? Cars? Insurance?

Pop into vodafone with a bag of carrots and some home brewed beer next time you need to pay your phone bill! I guess a cabbage backed currency has one advantage over a gold standard – you can always eat your currency peg if you get hungry…….

I only pick one issue to pinpoint an inconsistency because this is not my blog and I don’t want to come back on every issue because of bandwidth. I’m not avoiding issues.

In this interview Bankers trust JK and AK are indelibly connected. A JK narrative inconsistency.

I apologise. I read so much sometimes I don’ get the most appropriate links.

You give a lot of what seems to be your opinion but no links to verify. The BBC link to the subprime timeline gives the graph which shows clearly that the subprime mortgage sales gathered steam in 1998.

I give you a lot of links have you checked all of them? Especially the fire fighters on the destruction of evidence?

In the link to the NY times interview with AK he clearly states that he left trading altogether after his stint with Soros until his return in 1990 in the mean time he did advisory work.

And I will read your book, which is probably about the 99,9% of honest but some of them greedy traders.

I agree with the Occams Razor rule but when powerful people actively sabotage an independent investigation into a crime against their own people and the investigation that occurred leaves everybody except those powerful men dissatisfied you are obliged to keep on asking questions no?

Interesting observation about titles and bonusses and the need to make yourself seem bigger than you are. I have never had a tittle other than sous chef (I love food endeavour to make my own cheese etc) aeons ago.
LOL.

About the global currency. We’ll see what happens eh? So far I’ve been right about the financial collapse and I’m fairly confident that it’s going to get a whole lot worse and that eventually they will come up with a global currency).

In the mean time our local Transition town project is considering our own local currency. Fiat and based on trust (always risky) and local produce (equally risky but who’d you rather trust; your local organic food growers or JK and his international banking mates?)

I should know better but here goes again.

I’ve raised around 20 points where something you’ve claimed in your essay is either provably untrue or exagerated. And yet your opinion hasn’t changed one iota – you just move on, ignore the points that no longer fit your theory, but still then charge on the with the same theory. Have you ever written critically at school, university or in the workplace? If you need to use faith as your main logical platform

A case in point – very simple to underestand. You refer to “the fact that global leaders are now talking about a single global currency”

What? Where? When? You provide links – thank you.

But have you actually read the stories you linked to? Where is any reference to global leaders talking about a single global currency? In the first brown never refers to currency, even obliquely. In the second, Nowotny talks about a more balanced mix of currencies in global finance – USD, EUR and JPY with USD being less dominant than it is now. And Sarkozy thinks a return to Bretton Woods style agreements (which doesnt imply one global currency as you had to worry about relativity to gold, and countries still had the ability to re or devalue their currency in 10% chunks to cope with adjustment pressures despite the peg) would be good, a point central banker Nowotny disagrees with in the same story. If you read more widely what Sarkozy was proposing, it is actually “stricter regulation on financial institutions, curb bonus packages for bankers, overhaul international accounting rules and reshape policies on foreign exchange rates.” And “the “role and functioning” of the International Monetary Fund should be “rethought.” At the Nov 15 conference I bet you anything you like there will not be a call or a discussion or even a passing reference in the official communique about a “single global currency”.

So where is the “the fact that global leaders are now talking about a single global currency.” It doesnt exist!

There are at least a dozen other facts you have stated which can be deconstructed in exactly the same manner. I’d really like you to rewrite your essay more autoritatively. Prove the facts, provide references, get rid of loose associations and the taints by association. I think you could still tell a good story that people without an anti-Key ideological angle to start with could read and follow without giving up half way thru. Facts and numbers, that what you need.

And back on to Andy Krieger – he was never “global head of forex for Bankers trust”. He started work at Salomon in 1984, went to BT in 1986, went to Soros in 1988 for about 3 months and then started his own firm in 1988. At BT he was only ever a vice president – they are below the directors who are below managing directors but VP’s are above associates (they are new graduates). I have heard him describe himself as global head of fx options trading – at BT I would guess that means he had maybe 6 people at most reporting to him? And it sounds very much like the self granted title your boss agrees you can have to keep you happy in lieu of a bigger bonus. I was once grandly titled Regional Head of Structured Products for Asia. I had precisely zero people reporting to me!

And if you actually read the stories you link to you’ll see Key never claimed he dealt with Krieger while Krieger was at BT. It just says he dealt with Krieger. Maybe while Krieger was working at Quantum or when Krieger set up his own hedge fund. Maybe? Remember – Occams Razor. The absence of evidence of a cover up is not firm evidence that a successful cover up occurred!

And you really should read Liars Pokers – you’ll understand the culture and workings of investment banks so much better.

suggest you follow me doing the following after the big dash — colon halfdash round close bracket. Ignore the spaces, tap those keys(3) and voila !

the halfdash is important, no dash (some folks still try for that way but the gif file canna recognise this..

a buddy I know has suggested you grab a free online journal or something and like archive in maybe a couple of longish posts what stands for your thesis in the above, then instead of it getting in the way of regular flow link to it..

Blogos savvy folks do prefer this kind if thing.. just a thort..

Interesting testing tools your conspiracy testing tools. Thanks for that.

So far we have no idea what the hell really happened and theorising does not get you anywhere but it will be interesting to apply these tools to the official “conspiracy theory” because that is the only theory offered so far.

Thanks a bunch. LOL.

I reckon at this moment in time there is a lot of cold sweat on most of the cogs brows causing the machine to rust from the inside out. LOL.

I wouldn’t be surprised if JK bought his condo in Hawaii just in case things go pear shaped. He must have seen this coming from a mile away. Gngngngngnah.

Any chance you telling me how to do the smiley thing? Cause Iprent hasn’t found the time yet to put it on her FAQ sheet. (That’s because we giver her to much to read, poor thing)

Yes, I agree there is no way you can connect John Key to the H-fee scandal.
I wasn’t trying to either.

What I was trying to point out that John Key tells us he left well before the H-fee plan was hedged in one interview whereas he tells us he was still working for Elders when Andrew Krieger raided the NZ dollar. In fact the NZ herald states twice that “the records will show” that John Key could not have worked with Andrew Krieger during the raid. i would love to see those records, wouldn’t you?

Since Andrew Krieger left the Bankers Trust in February 1988 and this is an article from the NY Times archive attesting to the date and here is an interview with Andrew Krieger and what he did in the time between the Bankers trust days and 1990 (In another it even says it was by the end of 1987) because he was miffed that he only got less than a paltry 1% of the $ 338 million he made for Bankers Trust in that raid (I’d be miffed too) and only had a three month stint with Soros he can’t have been working with John Key in 1988 because one of the causes in his buy out contract was a three month grace period. That is an inconsistency in the John Key narrative, no?

Yet John Key and his then boss gush over John Key’s relationship with Krieger and the many millions of dollars of trade John Key had to do for him.

So my question is why the clear inconsistencies and show us those records. I know that currency trade is done by all banks and have no opinion about it. People buy and sell currencies every day. So what is the big deal?

But when a politician vying for the highest office of the land goes all shifty on something like this I want to know about it. Don’t you?

By the way at the time Andrew Krieger at 32 was the global head of forex for Bankers trust, living in New York and dealing with John Key from New York (according to JK and his boss). So even in this lofty managerial position he was still very much on hands. What I find telling is the fact that JK and his boss remembers that AK called JK for the first time and asked him all about the NZ currency. Why would he do that if he had raided the currency already. He would know all the ins and outs already wouldn’t he, having almost destroyed the NZ dollar once before.

One world currency links are here, here to name a few.

About the Jewish conspiracy thing. Banking is not and never was limited to the Jewish community, one of America’s biggest banking families is the Bush family for example. W’s grand daddy made the bulk of his loot by financing Hitler and he made tons of money of the steel industry and the slave labour provided by the prisoners of Auschwitz

Informing yourself with the video links I gave you would be a good first step to get a different perspective on the banking world.

Don’t infantilize this debate by bringing in hateful and narrow minded “conspiracy theories” just because I experience the events from a different perspective based on my own research and that of the documenters of well researched and well supported video’s. I didn’t get here overnight but after three years of reading and watching everything I could find on the subject and being of European descent and having grown up in the aftermath of the second WWII with a great many of my parents friends being of Jewish descent and barely having the survived the Holocaust and many still deeply grieving the loss of the their friends and family I found that thankfully those who want to blame “the Jews” to be only a very small and fringe group of those of us wanting to ask questions.

I reject fully and forcefully the stigmatisation of one religious group or the other (such as for most people it is easier to believe that 19 hateful Muslims did 911 lead by a loony Mullah in a cave because they hate our freedoms, even when it is scientifically impossible for them to have been able to have perpetrated this heinous act, than it is to keep an open mind and ask questions such as: Why did a third building build to withstand a nuclear blast, not hit by a plane, collapse in 6.5 seconds into a pyrochlastic flow into it’s own foot print after only small office fires had been roaming around in the building. It was not sufficiently damaged for this to happen so why did it happen. You should go to the fire fighters website and see what they have to say about it.) and will not under any condition allow myself to be dragged into discussions about any group or religion based on hateful and narrow minded prejudices, but neither will I walk away from discussing issues like Israel’s behaviour towards the Palestinians for example.

So whether JK is Jewish or not is neither here nor there (Some of my secular Jewish friends say that Judaism is a religion and not a race. An interesting observation) but if after his election JK will start to make policies which will greatly benefit Israel while being detrimental to the Palestinian/Israeli peace process I will raise my voice.

I heard about the Anecdote.

About the Conspiracy theory thing.

If you tell someone that you think that John Key met Sir Aschcroft in secret to discuss who was going to buy what after the election you would be theorising.

If you state that JK and LA met in secret and JK only came clean when confronted than it is save to say they were conspiring. Two powerful men meeting secretly meets the definition of a conspiracy. What we don’t know is about what. Or whether it’s a good or a bad conspiracy.

If powerful people like JK lie it is our civic duty to ask questions. To be ridiculed as a conspiracy theorist because you ask questions is annoying but sticks and stones and such.

If by asking questions I can stop the people of this country from making a terrible mistake than that will be worth it.

And quit frankly only assholes like Lew and d4j and HS still go there. There’s a lot of people here who might not agree with me on 911 but no longer call me a CT any more with regards to JK and the pending global financial collapse.

The h-fee issue – if you’ve read the facts on this you’ll know it it is factually impossible for Key to be involved in this beyond what has aready been reported and confirmed by Charles Sturt.

Re Andy Krieger – I don’t know hwhat your link links to, but heres an interesting anecdote. Krieger’s FX trading (from BT in Ny or boston?) in the NZD was causing such volatility the RBNZ got very nervous about the effect it was haveing on market liquidity and the maintenance of an orderly market (one of the RBNZ’s primary functions). The deputy governor phoned BT managment and asked them to stop this from happening. And guess what. It worked!

L

One last fact check before I go and do something productive in the garden.
- sane and intelligent. Ummm – I’ll take your word at face value at least for awhile : )
- the maggie thatcher quote was just a reminder that unless people argue on facts and reasoned, supportable opinion theres no point. You’ve lost the audience.
- Banking and mining mates? I don’t see why people on the fringe left have a pathological knee jerk reaction to whoever is leader of NP. Nor do I see why those on the right have the same reaction to Helen. In both cases some of what people say is true, but most is exaggerated, not supported by facts. From both sides.
- the new world order/illuminati/freemasons/eye on the pyramid us bank notes/international jewish conspiracy are clearly ludicrous. I guess belief in these is harmless enough but seriously….. do you really believe this? I mean Key is Jewish, his mother was Austrian, Austria is next door to Switzerland which is where the illuminati hide their money, so maybe Key is part of the global Jewish conspiracy to dominate world finance. And sell NZ assets to his mining mates. They would be Sleepy, Dozy, Grumpy and the other 4.
- yes his title does say that, but his most senior job was global head of FX. In any case the other isnt it a bad thing. Do you know what beoing heada of a business really means? Budgetting. Planning headcount. Managing the egos of a bunch of highly strung, needy, pushy staff trying to outdo each other. Ensuring everyone follows the compliance rules. Ensuring risk management is done correctly. Schmoozing clients. Travelling 4 days out of 5. Reporting to regulators. I betcha John Key would not have traded significantly in his last 3 years at ML. He became a manager.
- I know a fact at BT Key was primarily an FX trader in the early days, a manager of FX and wider business in his later days. But in any case theres nothing wrong with knowing about bonds and derivatives. They are not some spooky secret weapon that bankers can program to blow up clients and enrich themseleves. Sometimes that is the effect but the main problem is (repeat again and again) “inapproriate use of leverage”. And maybe the investor not understanding what they bought (Think Orange county).
- He will be associated with “the coming collapse” (which by the way wont happen only in the same way I will. Or in the way you would be implicated if you’d worked at (say) the local pet shop 4 years ago, but all their stock dies tomorrow.
- FNMA and FHLMC weren’t told to give everyone easy mortgages. A democrat controlled congress widened the critieria in which mortgages became conforming (and this eligible for the sovereign guarantee) for a good reason – widening home ownership amongst the poorer and minorities, but the laq of unintended consequences kicked in pretty quickly. They also created programs to make non-conforming mortgages eligible for special treatment. Tha was the real problem. Greed then took over as originators (this is the US equivalent of Mike Pero etc) realised they could get paid a grand or two every time they signed up someone for a mortgage which the smaller regional banks would then sell to securitisiation businesses who would then place the MBS created from these mortgages with institutional investors.
- things go shit in every business often. In banking it is almost always a very small group of people who do it. Think Barings. The Salomon Bidding Scandal. Grubman etc dodgy internet research. The Citigroup manipulation of Euro Govt futures a few years back. Zilllions of other examples. A small group of people got greedy, lax oversight, weak management or poor systems enabled them to think they’d get away with it. They get caught, fired, fined, sometimes go to jail. Management above them usually gets fired too. Firm cops a whacking great fine. I’ve worked at firms where things like this have happened (Salomon, Citibank). Honestly, resigning never crossed my mind. Why should I resign because some twat with nothing to do with me does something illegal. I tell you what everyone who has worked more than a couple of years does. They make a mental note” watch out for that potentially awkward situation that could eventually lead you to a bad place.” The first step by most of these bad eggs would not have been illegal but it probably was in grey area between ethical black and ethical white. And then relativism takes over “it was only a little breach”. “It wasn’t that dishonest”. Soon you’re in jail.
- LTCM was one of my clients when I worked in London. I can tell you exactly why they failed. They had a leverage position of somewhere between 150 and 200 times. The stochastic models they used made certain assumptions about the statistical distribution of price moves in the assets they were long and short. Several things happened, amongst them: their distribution assumptions were wrong and what were allegedly statistically impossible moves went against them. One large trade they had on – long govt guaranteed danish mortgage bonds, short IR swaps and futuures. As this moved against them they had to unwind the position. As they unwound the position, other market particiapents backed away. Market moved more. Vicisous cycle, large price moves no liquidity. Margin call. Havent got the money. you should also read “When Genius Failed. by Roger Lowenstein. Also good reading is The Black Swan by Nassim Talib. Get through some of this reading as opposed to the conspiracy websites and your arguments will become way more coherent.
- better example for FX and hedge Funds is Tiger in 98 dropping 3 or 4 billion on a 20% dollar/yen move in one day. But that had nothing to do with John Key – even though I would imagine Tiger were one of Merrills largest FX clients and Key would have known them well – it was a risky trade that went wrong, and there wasnt enough market liquifdity to unwind in a hurry.

- Edward Griffin – where do you start……… John Birch society. Thats probably enough. I question why he would have an opinion on Key except one that springs from the fact that “he’s a rich banker”. I can understand a person who sees a conspiracy in one area – it may well be true (think Erin Brockovich) but where you can find conspiracies in multiple areas – cmon….. Fed, Cancer, Noahs Ark, 911, communists under the bed, etc. Really cmon. “It’s not an ark, it’s a rock.”

Look a more interesting challenge for you would be to indicate some deepset character flaws in Key – does he eat children? if so how many? How many puppies has he strangled. Does he sleep with transvestites? And for balance the same applies to Helen Clark – so far all we have to go on is Ian Wishart.

I would bet an awful lot of money with you that neither Key nor Clark (nor anyone else in NZ politics – one or two of the nuttier greens excepted), neither Key nor Clarke have secret plans to do anything for ulterior selfish motives. You may not agree with what they do or how they want to do it but I think I am safe in saying that both firmly believe they are doing something positive for NZ society as a whole.

Key doesnt have to do this political thing – he could play golf 5 days a week, have nice holidays whenever he wants and run some interesting businesses for fun.

- I try not to use Wikipedia to find facts to suit an argument but I will just once. This next paragraph is lifted from their conspiracy theory page. Please go thru these tests when you write something (after you have removed anything that is innuendo or a proximity association). Your theories will become much more robust if you can weave your way thru these 5 tests. In fact if you tidy up your narrative on Key, delete bad facts, heroic assumptions and innuendo by association it would be much stronger. If you can prove your narrative on a piece of paper with lines and explanations between the different fact boxes (thats point 2 below) I’d be impressed.

* Occam’s razor – does the alternative story explain more of the evidence than the mainstream story, or is it just a more complicated and therefore less useful explanation of the same evidence?
* Logic – Do the proofs offered follow the rules of logic, or do they employ Fallacies of logic?
* Methodology – are the proofs offered for the argument well constructed, i.e., using sound methodology? Is there any clear standard to determine what evidence would prove or disprove the theory?
* Whistleblowers – how many people ? and what kind ? have to be loyal conspirators?
* Falsifiability – Is it possible to demonstrate that specific claims of the theory are false, or are they “unfalsifiable”?

One last question – interested in your comment about global leaders calling for a global currency. Can you link to this pls?

This aint rescue.. I already had the J-word advisory from lprent.. figures.. but you can take courage from your obvious interest in the subject and there’s one helluvah lot to take an interest in.. plus I admire your sense of humor.. and what that enables your posts achieve.

Coming to Mr. Gekko.. you’ll maybe recall how the young fellow takes him to lunch and bye and bye receives the putdown all BSDs issue from their special reserve cachet: “so long as you aint number 14 in the team (tagging me)”.

Simulating if you will what gomango is saying with respect to market player teams and groups.. along wall street.

gomango, Mrs Thatcher.. i doubt folks today can admire her “politics”. As with all rising political stars the attitude hardens as they go on up. To become flagpoles rather than flags for all the dims and dumbs following, few of whom realise how she in turn – (monetary policy-wise) – had been following the talented Mike Joseph, sadly deceased too early. In those times, of course, Reagan, Pinochet and our own kiwi caricature, tho hardly as I said for the politics.

short-selling = greater liquidity would surely have been ‘proven’ in times of reasonable liquidity levels. And so professed of value during illiquity. Without actual proof it was bald hit-and-miss assertion. naked short-selling OTOH was taking libs.. a tad too far.. wouldn’t you say!

Which outfits were pushing CDOs in your time there.. and re “root causes” i think we all need go back some on pre-leverage. Greed has to have more than opportunity.. it must make it for one.. who IYO were the guys behind G-Steagall repeal? Asking not, you understand, from a now and/or likely interpretive (of beneficiaries) pov, but in terms of street talk prior.

brash.. I’m inclined agree with you re Don’s personality. Orewa.. I have a tenuous meme which keeps on suggesting that he was maybe following a speechwriter.. hooten(?) has laid claim to some of his though I’m far from sure about that one. So i guess given time and opp one could check the actual speech iteration with any officially authorised transcript..

time to go.. lprent’s bandwidth.. et cetera..

Just to set something straight. I don’t accuse John Key of single-handedly bringing
Merril Lynch down. All I try to point out is the inconsistencies in JK’s narrative in were he was during all the major scandals his banks have been involved in.

And to point out that rather than a small cog in a big machine he was a big cog very close to where the the financial collapse is coming from in the right time to set in motion to what is now becoming a nightmare for the entire global economy.