War and peace

Written By: - Date published: 8:05 am, November 19th, 2012 - 93 comments
Categories: democratic participation, labour - Tags:

Talk of a Labour leadership vote to be held this Tuesday blossomed and then faded on Sunday as we went from escalating tension to peace suddenly breaking out. Here’s what went down.

The Mallard-led old guard – having already run a failed attempt at making the democratic model of leader election a charade by setting an impossibly high bar to spark a vote – thought they had found a procedural trick to embarrass Cunliffe. They could have an caucus-only vote under the old rules, which would require 60% opposition to Shearer to succeed. Shearer would win and Cunliffe would be fatally damaged before any full leadership vote involving the party, and they could use the vote as an excuse to demote Cunliffe. But then they realised that:

a) there’s no alternative to Shearer on the table, so there’s no call for a vote, and just because no-one chooses to stand up this time doesn’t mean that they can’t later. Cunliffe refused to come out to be beaten up by them in a rigged game.

b) principled MPs might stymie this blatant attempt to thwart the will of the members to have a say in the leadership and those MPs might vote to give the membership its say. It would only have taken a few MPs to turn in disgust from the old guard’s behaviour for Shearer’s leadership to collapse spectacularly in a crisis of their own making.

and c) such a move would rightly be seen as another kick in the face for Labour’s membership, which would have no legitimacy and just further entrench the memberships’ anger towards the old guard that backs Shearer… with bad consequences. Demoting the membership’s preferred leader would be a huge mistake given some of Shearer’s backers are already struggling to get support from their LECs for a 2014 candidacy.

If there is a leadership motion this week under the old rules, I expect that Cunliffe and his supporters will turn it into a nullity by voting for Shearer on the grounds that any leadership votes from now on should be under the new rules. [Update: as predicted, Cunliffe has said he will support Shearer if there is a vote this week or next]

It’s important to remember that Cunliffe hasn’t launched any coup and all this talk from Mallard and co of Cunliffe destabilising Shearer is rubbish. The membership voted itself a greater say, not Cunliffe. There has been nothing that Cunliffe has done that can be reasonably construed as an attack on the stability of the party. All he has done is left open the possibility of a challenge at the anointed time next year but that’s only fair given Shearer’s weak performance to date (one good turn in front of the autocue notwithstanding).

All this malice towards Cunliffe simply isn’t justified. He has done a bloody good job as Economic Development spokesperson (eg the manufacturing inquiry); he only did his duty as delegate, along with a majority of others, in supporting democracy in the Labour Party; and he has launched no coup or otherwise sought to undermine Shearer.

If anyone is trying to exploit the situation of the members voting for democracy, it’s the old guard trying to beat it up as a story of disloyalty to, in Mallard’s words, ‘head Cunliffe off at the pass’ rather than wait until the proper time and, if there is a challenge, let the members have their say. And the old guard are just a small minority in the party. The problem for them is, they know it.

Let’s hope that they now realise that their best interests, along with Labour’s and the Left’s lie in them turning their guns off Cunliffe and on to National for the next three months.

93 comments on “War and peace ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. mickysavage 1
    19 November 2012 at 8:35 am

    Agreed entirely.

    Yesterday I thought that Shearer had done a really good job, given a good speech and I hoped that he would continue in his improved performance.  His leadership would then be assured and we could all work towards electing a progressive government.

    He has just blown all of my good will by suggesting on Radio New Zealand that Cunliffe will be disciplined.

    I mean what is he on?

    What has Cunliffe done?  Is reserving your right to engage in a constitutional process something to be disciplined for?

    Shearer should show real leadership by laughing it off, saying he is looking forward to the February confirmation and that he intends to seek the new process’s endorsement.  If he keeps performing he will have my support.  This macho crap is not helpful.

    BTW Shearer still needs to perform better in interviews.  This latest one was pretty messy.

    • Jim Nald - Once Was National 1.1
      19 November 2012 at 8:50 am

      The weekend demonstrated the progressive values and modernisation of the Labour Party, and Shearer should emphasise and leverage off that.

      Shearer delivered his speech well, Robertson damned the Natz cabinet with great humour, Cunliffe pledges support, and the membership is happy.

      Shearer and his deputy need to be careful they do not play into the hands of Natz and Natz-leaning media beat-up, and dig a hole for the whole of the Labour Party in the process.

    • geoff 1.2
      19 November 2012 at 11:48 am

      Yep agreed, good comment.

    • The sprout 1.3
      19 November 2012 at 12:03 pm

      Totally agree ms, Shearer looked for a moment like he might finally step up to the mark – only to fuck it up yet again with all this ABC bullshit and his little ‘i am the leader, i’ll make the decisions’ brain fart.

      If there is one defining characteristic of Shearer that emerges again and again, its the uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

  2. Fred 2
    19 November 2012 at 8:43 am

    Shearer’s been ill-advised throughout. Goff, Mallard, King – none of them seriously expect to be ministers after 2014, so they’ve got little riding on whether Labour can form a government. More important to them is their personal dislike for Cunliffe.

    Mallard is a millennialist, he loves the big confrontation – that’s what he tried to pull here and he has been deftly out-maneuvered.

    “Shearer still needs to perform better in interviews. This latest one was pretty messy” – yup. It look his leadership being in mortal danger and a week of practice to pull off well a pre-written speech. The problem remains that he is bad off the cuff, which means he’ll get slaughtered if he is allowed to debate Key before the election.

  3. Colonial Viper 3
    19 November 2012 at 8:43 am

    Man the personal insecurity and fear running around here is batshit crazy. There are no leadership challengers coming forwards – so we are going to make one up ourselves, out of the shadows!

    The February vote is constitutionally enshrined in the Labour rules, it is a regular scheduled vote, it happens in the mid term of every electoral cycle (although this one coming up will be the last one as the constitution has now been amended).

  4. ad 4
    19 November 2012 at 8:52 am

    So first off I just want to offer a humble apology to Lynn, after writing that this site has a hivemind. May the debate reign.

    Just a little surprised that Shearer is actually proposing to expel him from the caucus, on the media this morning.

    This is not like Jim Anderton actually walking from the Labour Party in the late 1980s to form the Alliance.

    It’s also not like the expulsion of John Tamihere.

    Unfortunately it’s at least as big as Anderton’s departure in scale and impact.

    This is the leader of the Labour Party taking the entire constutitional process Labour went through on the weekend and screwing it up like paper and throwing it in the bin. I just wonder how the membership on this site will react?

    Perhaps it’s going to take the wholesale removal of a core of the caucus to realise that the membership now have a constitutional right to have a say in most of the way they operate. Perhaps some really are just too set in their ways.

    When the Membership and affiliates and caucus meet and form policy, that policy is now binding.

    When the membership and affiliates and caucus meet and form rules about agreeing to a leader, that policy is now binding.

    So all the quoted MPs who have got themselves in a lather in the last 12 hours – Curran, Little, O’Connor, Goff, and Shearer – really need to grow used to sunlight shining through their caucus doors.

    Clearly this is a major emotional upheaval for them. It’s deeply ugly to watch.

    I hope Cunliffe is not an irredeemably terminal political victim of it. Looks like that’s what caucus leadership is aiming for.

    [lprent: A better grade of stirring post ban. But I suspect you are talking about Cunliffe rather than me. And the Labour caucus can’t expel anyone from the Labour party. Perhaps I should extend my offer to Cactus Kate to send a copy of the Labour party constitution to you. If might improve your spin. ]

    • ad 4.1
      19 November 2012 at 9:17 am

      Ah, yes forgot to name the actual person commenting on after apologising.

      Much appreciate the offer, but I think my head actually exploded like the martians on Mars Attacks as Slim Dusty played “I Remember Yo-uuuuuuuuuuu” on the weekend reading that stuff as the debates were going through. I’ll pop my copy on the shelf for another year.

  5. Tom Gould 5
    19 November 2012 at 8:55 am

    So, what you are saying is that Cunliffe cannot win under the current rules, but he can win under the electoral college system with 40% of the votes being cast by a handful of union officials casting aggregated votes? He only needs 10% of the Caucus plus the rotten borough votes, plus one, to win the leadership, even if he failed to get a single genuine party member vote. So his constituency is 4 Caucus members and a dozen or so union heavyweights, maybe 20 people? And this it touted as “democracy”?

    • Colonial Viper 5.1
      19 November 2012 at 9:02 am

      Meh the Feb vote is just a trigger. If the trigger is pulled then it goes to ALL the party members.

      THAT is democracy 🙂

      • David H 5.1.1
        19 November 2012 at 9:13 am

        And thats a reason to become a member again. Finally we will not be ignored.

      • Tom Gould 5.1.2
        19 November 2012 at 9:33 am

        Are you saying that the actual leadership vote, once triggered, does not include the aggregated votes cast by union heavyweights? If not, then I am correct, right? The ordinary party members are in the minority, and even if they ALL vote for one candidate, they can be beaten?

        • alex 5.1.2.1
          19 November 2012 at 9:46 am

          Try to think of the internally democratic nature or otherwise of parties as a continuum, Labour has still not reached where the Greens are at, but they are a hell of a lot more internally democratic after these reforms than, say, National.

    • Craig Glen Eden 5.2
      19 November 2012 at 9:18 am

      No ones saying what you are spinning Tom Gould except you and what your spinning is factually wrong.

    • Lanthanide 5.3
      19 November 2012 at 12:24 pm

      Tom, it goes like this:
      In Feb, 13-14 people (some 40% of caucus) can vote against Shearer and ask for it to be put to a wider vote.

      At that point, an electoral college is formed where:
      40% of votes come from caucus
      40% of votes come from members
      20% of votes come from affiliates/unions

      I thought this was pretty straightforward, but obviously not.

  6. Craig Glen Eden 6
    19 November 2012 at 9:06 am

    The Nuclear Sky is falling all right and Shearer looks less and less the moderate Mr nice guy who has strongly held social justice blood running through his veins.Perhaps he is suffering a little post Traumatic stress syndrome from that UN work.

  7. Anne 7
    19 November 2012 at 9:15 am

    It was the most extraordinary beat-up over nothing that I have ever witnessed.

    Does Shearer not appreciate he is being treated with contempt by some of his own caucus supporters? Like mickysavage, I was delighted with his speech yesterday. He had an audience of some 700 members eating out of his hand. What we didn’t know about was… the shenanagens apparently going on behind the scenes.

    He must step back and look at exactly what happened before he takes any action. As was pointed out by several speakers on the conference floor:

    Since the 1980s members and affiliates have been largely left out of the decision making processes inside the Party. Time and again our concerns were ignored… and so the frustration slowly began to build. Finally it spilled over on Saturday and we voted – as one delegate put it – to reclaim our Party.

    This attempt to blame it on Cunliffe as if he was somehow responsible for what happened is the most appalling display of petulance and sour grapes I have ever witnessed.

    The traitor is not Cunliffe. It’s a small handful of Caucus members who can’t get over themselves, and the power they want to continue to wield over the rest of us.

    • Craig Glen Eden 7.1
      19 November 2012 at 9:19 am

      +1 Anne

    • Rhinocrates 7.4
      19 November 2012 at 9:52 am

      +3.14159265358979323846…

    • ianmac 7.5
      19 November 2012 at 9:54 am

      +3 (I have to check the blog name to make sure I am not on a National Party Blog.)

    • Colonial Viper 7.6
      19 November 2012 at 9:56 am

      +4 Anne…gawd Rhino, this is no time to bring up irrationalities 😉

      • Jilly Bee 7.6.1
        19 November 2012 at 10:37 am

        +5 Anne. I had almost started to feel proud about being a member after Saturday (I wasn’t able to attend, but kept regularly updated with Twitter and The Standard. I first joined in 1967 – I will certainly put my card through the shredder if this stupidity carries on – in fact I will drive over to Phil Twyford’s Henderson office and do it there. Apparently David Cunliffe is the Waitakere buddy MP and it would sort of defeat my purpose if I was to go to his New Lynn office.

        • Anne 7.6.1.1
          19 November 2012 at 10:56 am

          The crying shame Jilly Bee, Shearer gave such a good speech. Everyone left the conference feeling happy and uplifted. Then I turned on the TV news at 6pm and couldn’t believe what I was seeing and hearing. If this nonsense continues I will also be shredding my membership card.

          • seeker 7.6.1.1.1
            19 November 2012 at 6:02 pm

            @Jilly Bee and Anne
            Was feeling the same until I heard rumblings today followed by ‘caucus leadership vote ‘while I was on the phone to NZPC about John Armstrong’s smear on David Cunliffe being highlit on the Herald on line today. Now I’m agreeing with DH below. I can’t believe David Shearer et al could behave like this. This is not the behaviour of a leader -to be run by the media and then go running to mummy caucus and hide behind her skirts while she tells him what to do as well. He should be standing up for Cunliffe, one of the best men on his frontbench (what will he, or us, do, without him?) and getting on with the job of leading Labour against this “National Scourge.”. Cunliffe has been nothing but loyal to Shearer and the party and the electorate. How disloyal is Shearer and some of the party by undermining and discrediting the best man they have?

            I now feel a rather low opinion coming on about the NZ Labour party. Not only has the caucus’ poor choice of leader led to this appalling mess- it is just what our people living in poverty and despair don’t need. Shame on you Shearer and co. John Armstong’s description of “naked ambition” today may well apply to you..

            • karol 7.6.1.1.1.1
              19 November 2012 at 6:06 pm

              I love how the same language keeps getting circulated!

              “Naked ambition” was the term Gower used to describe Cunliffe last night. 

              • seeker …
                19 November 2012 at 6:45 pm

                Exactly Karol, and ghastly Garner and Chris Hipkins were using similar lines and sentiments as Member41 @ comment 19 below. I commented on this horror at 19.2.

                TVNZ are just saying that all 33 Labour MPs are being summoned to Wellington tomorrow for a vote/show of confidence in Shearer and that this is because of the possible interperetation of some of David Cunliffes comments on the weekend-which doesn’t sound so cut and dried as Garner and Hipkins

                NB. Haven’t quoted TVNZ accurately- just it’s ’roundup of headlines’ sentiment.

                Can’t believe this idiocy is happening!!!

    • prism 7.7
      19 November 2012 at 10:11 am

      On Radionz this a.m.when questioned about the leadership issue Shearer came across as personally hurt and resentful, and authoritarian.

      Leaders have to have an ego for sure, but more than the burning desire to be The Leader, there must be a burning desire to carry forward Labour vision to successful outcomes, ie good for all people, enterprise and the country in every sector. Grizzling that discussion as to Shearer’s leadership is a sideshow doesn’t make the main show seem very dynamic and capable.

      It’s just as well that there are some strong-minded outsiders who can step out of the groupthink. They are needed to unemotionally evaluate the situation now and discuss the likely outcomes of various Labour directions so they can go beyond just following the status quo.

      One good policy that is needed in a blindingly obvious way doesn’t constitute enough substance behind the Labour cohort to raise confuidence that they will surge forward and win, and then be able to deliver good policies that raise our failing country. They need to be idealistic in policy aims tempered with innovative, pragmatic, practical action followed by thorough assessment of their outcomes.

      It was interesting to hear Damien O’Connor this morning who was questioned on the issue after a discussion on another issue he has done good work on. interest swaps for farmers. His approach was from the loyalty and hope side for Shearer. Great leader and going forward will lead Labour to victory sort of thing.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.9
      19 November 2012 at 6:14 pm

      Time and again our concerns were ignored… and so the frustration slowly began to build. Finally it spilled over on Saturday and we voted – as one delegate put it – to reclaim our Party.

      I think that process is true of all societies that wind up with dictators at the top that just don’t listen/are disconnected from the reality of the majority.

    • Olwyn 7.10
      19 November 2012 at 6:58 pm

      +100

  8. starlight 8
    19 November 2012 at 9:51 am

    One speech,practiced over and over,behind curtains and in a darkend room,does not make the man.
    Those career politicians adding fuel to the fire should just get off the bus and stop stiring the pot.
    Shonkey will be quite happy because if Shearer stays then there is no effective opposition.
    Congratulations to all the members who were at the conference, you have done us proud.

    • just saying 8.1
      19 November 2012 at 10:49 am

      should just get off the bus and stop stiring the pot

      I love a well mixed metaphor.
      Nice picture of Mallard, Goff and King struggling down the steps of a number nine bus lugging a bubbling cauldron between them…

      • Tim G. 8.1.1
        19 November 2012 at 5:32 pm

        no, JS, they left the bubbling cauldron on the bus for one of the underpaid/overworked drivers to clean up 😉

  9. tc 9
    19 November 2012 at 10:46 am

    Nice work undone by DS on RNZ this morning allowing all the NACT MSM lackeys to keep this alive while shonkey flogs off some more of our kids heritage.

    He’s still being led by the has beens not leading so I can’t see any significant change coming.

  11. Colonial Viper 11
    19 November 2012 at 11:54 am

    I like Patrick Gower for his optimism. LOL

    So there you have it. That’s how the numbers stack up as of now.

    (Labour) MPs who want to change camps on this list are welcome to contact the 3 News political office.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Opinion-Shearer-vs-Cunliffe–how-the-numbers-stack-up/tabid/1382/articleID/277204/Default.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+co%2FEoAG+%283News+-+Political+News%29

  12. gobsmacked 12
    19 November 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Hipkins on 3 News, and then One News, midday:

    Not anonymous. Speaking to camera. Clearly orchestrated. He’s the Whip.

    Says Cunliffe has worked to destabilise the leader, and the previous leader.

    Must support the leader or …

    “it’s time for him to find something else to do”. (direct quote)

    • Colonial Viper 12.1
      19 November 2012 at 12:11 pm

      😯

    • fatty 12.2
      19 November 2012 at 1:14 pm

      Chris Hipkins needs to give an example of that occurring. I am surprised something so stupid would come out of his mouth…its actually comments against Cunliffe that are destabilising Labour at the moment.
      I thought Hipkins was better than that…maybe its time Hipkins found something better to do.

      • The sprout 12.2.1
        19 November 2012 at 1:25 pm

        If Hipkins and his masters carry on this sort of bullshit they are going to buy a nuclear winter shit fight.
        You think the party’s unstable now Chris? You haven’t seen anything yet, but carry on like this and you’ll be looking for a new job sooner than you might have been led to believe.

    • weka 12.3
      19 November 2012 at 4:10 pm

      What things did Cunlifffe do to destabilise the leader?

      • Anne 12.3.1
        19 November 2012 at 4:30 pm

        We don’t know weka. We just keep being told he has. Strange thing, nobody has actually seen it.

        There’s vindictive stuff about Cunliffe emanating from the Caucus ABC club, but I’ve heard nothing nasty about Shearer coming from the Caucus Cunliffe club. Strange indeed.

        • weka 12.3.1.1
          20 November 2012 at 12:05 am

          That’s what I thought. And no-one who has posted here that was at the conference has said they saw evidence of Cunliffe organising a coup.

          • Colonial Viper 12.3.1.1.1
            20 November 2012 at 12:12 am

            He was a good bastard and bought a few rounds of drinks for people. Maybe the types who missed out got jealous?

          • Member41 12.3.1.1.2
            20 November 2012 at 12:15 am

            Well I was at Conference and it was pretty bloody obvious to me.

            Everybody in Caucus understands the game Cunliffe is playing. They are not making it up. And they are tired of it. It’s about time they started showing a backbone in the face of such blatant disloyalty. Cunliffe is costing us too much. I would prefer he stayed but he can’t if he can’t be a part of a team.

            • Colonial Viper 12.3.1.1.2.1
              20 November 2012 at 12:22 am

              lol a political commissar

            • weka 12.3.1.1.2.2
              20 November 2012 at 12:23 am

              “Well I was at Conference and it was pretty bloody obvious to me.”
               
              Will you tell us? I wasn’t there and I’m not a Labour insider, so I am just going off what people who were there report and what’s in the media. I’ve yet to see a single example of behaviour that counts as Cunliffe organising a coup. Just give four examples so we know what you are talking about.

  13. Santi 13
    19 November 2012 at 12:16 pm

    I’m delighted to know the dynamic, eloquent and articulate David Shearer is (and will be until the election) the leader of the Labour Party. Hail to the chief!

  14. bomber 14
    19 November 2012 at 12:22 pm

    This is becoming crazy now

    BREAKING NEWS: Shearer to expel Cunliffe? UPDATE: – http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/breaking-news-shearer-to-expel-cunliffe.html

    • toad 14.1
      19 November 2012 at 12:33 pm

      The Green Party’s membership application form is linked here!

      • lprent 14.1.1
        19 November 2012 at 12:45 pm

        Which reminds me. When do the Greens have their next conference? Who do I talk to about media access. My e-mail is lprent at primary.geek.nz

        • George D 14.1.1.1
          19 November 2012 at 4:05 pm

          AGMs are mid-year, summer policy conferences are usually early Feb. Both are highly democratic (but not perfectly so, there’s always some loss). The AGM is your better bet, and I don’t think the province has been sorted for 2013 yet; then it’s a matter of contacting the provincial executive.

          • lprent 14.1.1.1.1
            19 November 2012 at 5:17 pm

            Cool. I’ll organise that. National and NZ First will be interesting. Despite my time constraints I think I’ll go to Mana’s as well since we have have many enthusiasts fervent supporters here.

      • starlight 14.1.2
        19 November 2012 at 12:50 pm

        Lol,got to get our own house in order before we join theirs,:)

        • David H 14.1.2.1
          19 November 2012 at 2:36 pm

          Why bother Labour can fucking implode for all I care now.

          • seeker 14.1.2.1.1
            19 November 2012 at 5:40 pm

            +1

          • Colonial Viper 14.1.2.1.2
            20 November 2012 at 12:09 am

            Nah mate, please you gotta stay with Labour, if you’re not signed up sign up now, sign everyone up you can. We finally have the tools in the constitution to take back the heart and soul of the party. Its gonna be frakin good.

    • Rhinocrates 14.2
      19 November 2012 at 12:46 pm

      I can imagine tomorrow’s headline:

      Shearer to Expel Party From Party

      “A senior MP has informed this reporter that David Shearer intends to expel the Labour Party from itself for voting for greater democracy and refusing to respect his authoritah…”

      I used to think of him as the pointy-haired boss, now he’s turning into Eric Cartman.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx4jn77VKlQ

    • starlight 14.3
      19 November 2012 at 12:47 pm

      Hope this ain’t true Bomber,the grassroots,members,voted for democracy,Shearer’s
      actions will be in defiance of that,for god sake the man is a liability for the labour party,end of.

    • lprent 14.4
      19 November 2012 at 12:51 pm

      I’ll have a look at the feed issue tonight. It is failing to display the RSS it has collected at the back end. Annoying. It performed well over the weekend.

  15. gobsmacked 15
    19 November 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Cunliffe is, of course, an electorate MP. So he doesn’t have to go anywhere (list MPs don’t have to either, under the rules, but realistically they can’t win a seat so they usually go).

    As an independent MP he would win his electorate. As a backbench MP, ditto. Presumably the ABC crowd are relying on him quitting Parliament, for good.

  16. gobsmacked 16
    19 November 2012 at 1:25 pm

    UPDATE:

    Shearer has called an urgent caucus meeting for tomorrow afternoon to call for endorsement of his leadership. (Sources: Radio Live, etc … will link shortly).

  17. John Chapman 17
    19 November 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Just received the following from Labour’s press office:

    19 November 2012 MEDIA STATEMENT

    Labour Leader calls caucus meeting

    Labour Leader David Shearer has called his caucus to a meeting in Wellington at 4pm tomorrow.

    “I will be seeking the endorsement of my colleagues for the Labour leadership.

    “The endorsement I’m seeking will be in line with the decision made by Labour Party members at this weekend’s conference that I must have at least 60% support of the caucus.

    “A formal endorsement vote will also still be held in February in accordance with the new rules approved by Party members.

    “I’m holding this vote tomorrow to demonstrate that I have the support of my caucus and to put recent speculation to bed.

    “It is important that these matters are resolved so that Labour can lift its sights to focus on the serious challenges facing the country, including jobs, education and housing affordability,” said David Shearer.

  18. David H 18
    19 November 2012 at 2:29 pm

    But what are you going to do when you have the two resident clowns Garner and Gower the bad comedy act. They are the ones shit stirring and doing Mallards bidding. And Mallard needs to go as well!

  19. Member41 19
    19 November 2012 at 5:43 pm

    You guys need to go away.

    After that Conference the membership are behind David Shearer. He led the democratisation and reform of the Party. They are great changes that the whole Conference endorsed. We have the basis of a strong progressive policy platform and Shearer will take it to NZ in 2014. He proved he could do that in his speech.

    Cunliffe has undermined the party long enough. He’s been doing it for ages, but we finally understood how toxic he is this weekend. He has been given plenty of chances and it’s time for him to realise that this is about teamwork and not about his individual ambition. He can’t lead us. He should get behind Shearer or leave.

    [lprent: Letting this one through under advisement. But I am deeply suspicious. It reads like an opportunistic astroturf. We will see if it can argue rather than just barf slogans.

    Update: Ok, it looks like Member41 is human enough. Warning rescinded. ]

    • PlanetOrphan 19.1
      19 November 2012 at 6:02 pm

      OK Member41 stop using the royal We and speak for yourself, and let the others speak for themselves as well.

      If you are buying into the crap that the media are selling then you must be 1 of the ones that created it in the first place!.

      • Member41 19.1.1
        19 November 2012 at 6:18 pm

        By “we” I mean the members of the Labour Party that have had enough of Cunliffe’s self-serving white anting. And our numbers just about doubled this Conference.

        I am a left-wing member of the LP who wants to get out and defend the progressive policies we endorsed at Conference and more.

        • PlanetOrphan 19.1.1.1
          19 November 2012 at 6:24 pm

          Well in that case I think you are mis-reading Cunliffe today, I can’t speak for his past, but an ally in progressing civilised policies should be a bonus surely?

        • Jim Nald - Once Was National 19.1.1.2
          19 November 2012 at 6:30 pm

          Hey Member41,

          Mmm … you don’t sound that authentic or sincere there … you are verging on overdoing and over-egging the false pudding you want to serve up.

          “He led the democratisation and reform of the Party”

          – Really? How? What did he do? Please elaborate some more. And btw did he vote, and if so, for what position? And if not, how robust was his excuse and can it stand up to strong scrutiny?

          “defend the progressive policies we endorsed at Conference and more”

          – more what?

          • Member41 19.1.1.2.1
            19 November 2012 at 7:13 pm

            The Labour Party reform process was led by Shearer and Coatsworth. They both deserve enormous credit for getting it through successfully. Don’t think that is overstating it at all.

            “And more” wasn’t very eloquent. I meant that I want to go out and defend our progressive policy, including what we endorsed at Conference. And that we should do more of that at the next Conference.

    • seeker 19.2
      19 November 2012 at 6:19 pm

      Seems to be the same lines Garner and Chris Hipkins were using on TV3 news a moment ago, with Garner adding that the caucus would be looking to see how to punish and demote Cunliffe as far as possible tomorrow (almost rubbing his hands in gleeful anticipation).TVNZ is reporting that David Cunliffe has said he has done nothing and has no idea why he is to be “punished”. I am so with Cunliffe.

      This is beginning to sound as unfair and “courtier” manipulative as a Tudor court in the days of HenryV111!

      • Member41 19.2.1
        19 November 2012 at 6:32 pm

        Political parties require unity. Labour’s values include solidarity.

        Cunliffe undermined Goff for three years and he is at it again with Shearer. Patience eventually wears thin.

  20. Jane 20
    19 November 2012 at 6:37 pm

    WTF? How is it that the day after the conference there is this disaster?? Have just seen the news, leadership vote tomorrow, Cunliffe being demoted?? Very disturb that the caucus couldn’t get together and decide to put everything aside and take the best free media plug they have had in ages. One ten second quote on some vague sounding housing thing, instead of pictures of builders and young families excited at the prospect of a house we get a rant from DC. Pathetic.

    • Member41 20.1
      19 November 2012 at 6:44 pm

      Jane I can see how it might appear that way.

      The reality is that the leadership have been very patient with Cunliffe. They have wanted him to be a key part of the economic team. He’s got talent and he could have been great. But he spent three years undermining Goff and now he is at it again. Basically people have realised that it can’t go on any longer if we are going to be able to put up a unified platform to the electorate.

      If they don’t punish this brazen disloyalty – Labour is doomed.

      • Mike 20.1.1
        20 November 2012 at 3:45 am

        Can you please explain to me and others how Cunliffe is being so disloyal and how he is undermining the labour party? I only ask because I haven’t heard him say anything that would support this, but I’m not a Labour insider as you appear to be so there is obviously some info on Cunliffe that is not widely available?

  21. Prickly Jill 21
    20 November 2012 at 10:37 am

    I was at the Conference and at the affiliates meeting before. The affiliates leadership was supporting the Council position on a 50%+1 threshold to send the vote on the leadership to the wider membership.
    Then one after another, rank and file union members stood up and argued that the members should have a say in who is to be their leader, not just now, but always. It was about Constitutional change to fully participate in their Party — not just to deliver leaflets and knock on doors, but to have a genuine say. There was no mention of a leadership struggle, there were no ulterior motives, there was no manipulation.
    Each union delegation caucused and the members decided that if a leader could command 60% or more support from his/her Caucus, then that’s great. If not, the Labour Party members and affiliate members would get to vote.
    On the Conference floor, speakers to the 60% spoke about grassroots democracy. It was principled, exhilerating, empowering.
    Those on the other side, MPs and (disappointingly) a roll call of young people, accused the other side of sinister intentions. It was they who turned it into a leadership question; not the media. It was they who were being manipulative and manipulated.
    Our rank and file union members cheered and clapped during David Shearer’s speech. They left the Conference buoyed up. Luckily they won’t have heard David Shearer on Radio NZ the next morning.
    Come 2014, whoever the Leader is, he (unlikely to be a woman at this stage) will have to inspire our people to get out the vote in their Labour heartland communities, like Obama did. I’ll leave any MPs who read this post to think on this and put aside their own personal ambitions!

    • Member41 21.1
      20 November 2012 at 11:22 am

      I think this is a thoroughly honest take on what happened but I have a different perspective.

      The motion was opposed for principled and practical reasons. The idea that a vote with a 40% trigger should happen after every election was not really the problem (although some people spoke against this on democratic grounds – that 50% is the appropriate number).

      The main problem was that the motion allowed for a vote to take place in February – in the middle of an election cycle – which means 4 months or more of our campaign being undermined by this damaging speculation. It will be very hard for us and Shearer to gain traction whilst that speculation is ongoing. We can’t show unity and solidarity until it is over, and the Conference (albeit mostly for good reasons as you say) prevented us from ending it.

      So the people who spoke against it didn’t do it because they oppose democracy – there will be an election for the leader next time that everyone supported – but because they want to go into next year attacking the Government, not focused internally. We didn’t think that it was in Labour’s best interest to have the ongoing bitter struggle. We certainly didn’t think the public wanted more of it. It’s tiring and demoralising.

      The 40% trigger is unfortunately very low when you have a small caucus. You can basically offer all your voters a front bench position and you’ve got it. That is unfortunate.

      Also – if you and others didn’t realise that vote would become about the leadership then you need to think harder next time. More party democracy is good but it comes with responsibilities. And one of those responsibilities is to think about how your vote might be perceived.

  22. Prickly Jill 22
    20 November 2012 at 3:40 pm

    The vote next February was already scheduled. And all this talk about just 14 MPs choosing the leader is nonsense (especially when you realise that in December it only took 18 MPs to make that decision). The point about a trigger is that it gives the members the opportunity to vote. And then it is not 14 MPs, but thousands of Party members who decide. That gives the successful Leader a mighty mandate with which to go to the voters at the next Election.

    • Member41 22.1
      20 November 2012 at 4:51 pm

      Not really Jill – it’s just another half year of navel-gazing for Labour when we should be fighting the Government. I am all for an open democratic leadership process – but not in the middle of the election cycle. So not what we need right now – 4 months of being undermined by speculation + a difficult, bound to be nasty and public leadership battle. And what – then we have a year to reorganise and fight? Nah.

      The vote in February was going to happen. But on a 50% threshold Cunliffe would have had to do more than offer up some front bench seats to unseat Shearer. That’s why some of us opposed the motion. I understand your reasons for supporting it, but I have a different view.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Government redress for Te Korowai o Wainuiārua
    The Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore its relationship with iwi as the Te Korowai o Wainuiārua Claims Settlement Bill passed its first reading in Parliament today, says Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith. “Historical grievances of Te Korowai o Wainuiārua relate to 19th century warfare, land purchased or taken ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Focus on outstanding minerals permit applications
    New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals is working to resolve almost 150 outstanding minerals permit applications by the end of the financial year, enabling valuable mining activity and signalling to the sector that New Zealand is open for business, Resources Minister Shane Jones says.  “While there are no set timeframes for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Applications open for NZ-Ireland Research Call
    The New Zealand and Irish governments have today announced that applications for the 2024 New Zealand-Ireland Joint Research Call on Agriculture and Climate Change are now open. This is the third research call in the three-year Joint Research Initiative pilot launched in 2022 by the Ministry for Primary Industries and Ireland’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market
    The coalition Government has today announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to encourage landlords back to the rental property market, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The previous Government waged a war on landlords. Many landlords told us this caused them to exit the rental market altogether. It caused worse ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Boosting NZ’s trade and agricultural relationship with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay will visit China next week, to strengthen relationships, support Kiwi exporters and promote New Zealand businesses on the world stage. “China is one of New Zealand’s most significant trade and economic relationships and remains an important destination for New Zealand’s products, accounting for nearly 22 per cent of our good and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Freshwater farm plan systems to be improved
    The coalition Government intends to improve freshwater farm plans so that they are more cost-effective and practical for farmers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay have announced. “A fit-for-purpose freshwater farm plan system will enable farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • New Fast Track Projects advisory group named
    The coalition Government has today announced the expert advisory group who will provide independent recommendations to Ministers on projects to be included in the Fast Track Approvals Bill, say RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Regional Development Minister Shane Jones. “Our Fast Track Approval process will make it easier and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Pacific and Gaza focus of UN talks
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters says his official talks with the United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres in New York today focused on a shared commitment to partnering with the Pacific Islands region and a common concern about the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.    “Small states in the Pacific rely on collective ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government honours Taranaki Maunga deal
    The Government is honouring commitments made to Taranaki iwi with the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its first reading Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the commitment the Crown made to the eight iwi of Taranaki to negotiate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Enhanced partnership to reduce agricultural emissions
    The Government and four further companies are together committing an additional $18 million towards AgriZeroNZ to boost New Zealand’s efforts to reduce agricultural emissions. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says the strength of the New Zealand economy relies on us getting effective and affordable emission reduction solutions for New Zealand. “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • 110km/h limit proposed for Kāpiti Expressway
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) will begin consultation this month on raising speed limits for the Kāpiti Expressway to 110km/h. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and this proposal supports that outcome ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New Zealand Biosecurity Awards – Winners announced
    Two New Zealanders who’ve used their unique skills to help fight the exotic caulerpa seaweed are this year’s Biosecurity Awards Supreme Winners, says Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard. “Strong biosecurity is vital and underpins the whole New Zealand economy and our native flora and fauna. These awards celebrate all those in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Attendance action plan to lift student attendance rates
    The Government is taking action to address the truancy crisis and raise attendance by delivering the attendance action plan, Associate Education Minister David Seymour announced today.   New Zealand attendance rates are low by national and international standards. Regular attendance, defined as being in school over 90 per cent of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • World must act to halt Gaza catastrophe – Peters
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has told the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) in New York today that an immediate ceasefire is needed in Gaza to halt the ongoing humanitarian catastrophe.    “Palestinian civilians continue to bear the brunt of Israel’s military actions,” Mr Peters said in his speech to a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Speech to United Nations General Assembly: 66th plenary meeting, 78th session
    Mr President,   The situation in Gaza is an utter catastrophe.   New Zealand condemns Hamas for its heinous terrorist attacks on 7 October and since, including its barbaric violations of women and children. All of us here must demand that Hamas release all remaining hostages immediately.   At the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government woolshed roadshow kicks off
    Today the Government Agriculture Ministers started their national woolshed roadshow, kicking off in the Wairarapa. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay said it has been a tough time for farmers over the past few years. The sector has faced high domestic inflation rates, high interest rates, adverse weather events, and increasing farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • PM heads to Singapore, Thailand, and Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon will travel to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines this week (April 14-20), along with a senior business delegation, signalling the Government’s commitment to deepen New Zealand’s international engagement, especially our relationships in South East Asia. “South East Asia is a region that is more crucial than ever to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Prime Minister launches Government Targets
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced further steps to get New Zealand back on track, launching nine ambitious Government Targets to help improve the lives of New Zealanders. “Our Government has a plan that is focused on three key promises we made to New Zealanders – to rebuild the economy, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Natural hydrogen resource should be free of Treaty claims entanglement
    Natural hydrogen could be a game-changing new source of energy for New Zealand but it is essential it is treated as a critical development that benefits all New Zealanders, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones is seeking to give regulatory certainty for those keen to develop natural, or geological, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government responds to unsustainable net migration
    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New Zealand on stage at global Space Symposium
    Space Minister Judith Collins will speak at the Space Symposium in the United States next week, promoting New Zealand’s rapidly growing place in the sector as we work to rebuild the economy. “As one of the largest global space events, attended by more than 10,000 business and government representatives from ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-04-16T19:03:16+00:00