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Water ownership – first principles

Written By: - Date published: 3:35 pm, July 14th, 2012 - 103 comments
Categories: treaty settlements, water - Tags:

When you have the legal power to control aspects of how something is used, those are property rights, and when you have the legal power to exclude use of something by someone -for instance, by allocating exclusive usage rights to someone else – that’s ownership. The Crown allocates water rights, ipso facto, the Crown believes it owns the water.

If someone, the Crown, has the power to allocate the right to use water then that person, the Crown, must be asserting that it gets to decide what happens with the water – who uses it and how and who doesn’t – ie, that it owns it.

Iwi disagree. And that’s simply an evidential matter. It’s not a matter of whether the water can be owned or not, because clearly it can.

To say you can’t own water but you can own land is soft-headed mysticism. Just because something’s a liquid or a gas doesn’t mean it can’t be owned but the land can be because it’s solid. Otherwise, I must be free to drink at will from all those bottles of water in the dairy.

103 comments on “Water ownership – first principles”

  1. Ad 1

    Yes it’s odd to have a National Prime Minister having an anarcho-syndicalist moment. But for argument’s sake let me defend him.

    Theoretically anyone can have a rainwater tank and collected free water, and treat is afterwards. As rain water it’s a free public good.

    In practice the pipe network capex and maintenance, storage and treatment of both wastewater and fresh water all need to be paid for. One pays water companies for all the services and treatment and convenience of supply about that water, rather than paying for raw rainwater itself.

    I think this extends to hydro generation as well. Water facilities were usually formed as public works, and we pay for the added value that the facilities provide.

    Consumers should pay for what consumers take. And that price should be paid to those who have assets that add value to that water, whether that is for potable reticulated water, industrial uses, irrigation, or generation.

    Water belongs to the earth. Those who add value to it, and those who pollute it, should pay those who bring it to us in the state we want it.

    To me what is missing is a water price regulator, in which those who charge for water use in all its forms are required to prove how they came to that price. Just like airports have to prove to airlines the level of airport landing charges, or the Electricity Commission makes sure Transpower is charging the right amount for transmitting bulk electricity. Particularly because in practice water providers are monopolies.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 1.1

      Nah, you’re buying into an ethnocentric approach. Monetary value isn’t the only measure of intrinsic worth.

      • weka 1.1.1

        +1

      • OneTrack 1.1.2

        So why do Maori want money for it? It sounds like Maori share the “ethnocentric” view that things only have monetary value.

        • felix 1.1.2.1

          You might have noticed that maori haven’t actually wanted money for it so far.

          Why do you think that might be?

    • weka 1.2

      “Theoretically anyone can have a rainwater tank and collected free water, and treat is afterwards. As rain water it’s a free public good.”

      For now. There are places in the US where it is illegal to collect rainwater, or they limit how much you are allowed to collect (not enough to live on). This is where we are headed when we treat water and land as commodities. The main difference between the US and NZ is that they’re a bit further down the path of turning their island into a desert than us.

      • OneTrack 1.2.1

        And Maori are helping to turn water into just another commodity by asserting their ownership of it.

        • mike e 1.2.1.1

          OT Europeans taught Maori the value of Money.
          Now Maori are making money after Europeans took just about all their lands by what we call insider trading practices.
          I smell the racial politics of envy!

          • Populuxe1 1.2.1.1.1

            Well you would, because you’re a nutter. Except that we’re talking about state owned assets and Maori have all the same rights as any other New Zealand citizen. individual Iwi taking ownership also deprives other Maori of benefit, not just we evil demonic Europeans. Nor do two wrongs make a right – I fail to see why what the crimes and misdemeanors some historical personage whose only connection to me is complexion and language spoken, should be visited upon me – thanks very much. I imagine if a similar claim somehow directly affected you, you might consider things somewhat differently.
             

            • xtasy 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Populuxe1: What exactly are you on about, and what are you trying to prove or disprove? I am lost about your rant.

              • Populuxe1

                Oh I just get bored whenever someone shrieks “racism” in an argument as if it actually proves anything without being justified – especially when it’s historical racism.
                Especially as in this case Maori as a whole will not benefit and in fact will suffer if significant control of resources are given over to individual Iwi.
                Sorry you have a reading disability.

                • xtasy

                  I have NO reading disability and clearly detect your racist slant now.

                  so I have no issues with Maori and the Council or iwi, as long as they are merely seeking a clarification of the law, which is what this is so far all about. You apparently are one trying to dig out issues and edges to create arguments for argument’s sake. That is not what I am interested in. so I suggest you just go to Kiwi Blog or elsewhere, where Farrar Fartarse and such cater for your simple minded nonsense.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Well no – jumping up on a chair, pointing at me and shrieking “racist” is fairly typical of someone who fears debate. Nor does expressing concern of at the possible outcome of something necessarily make one racist just because one of the parties is ethnically grouped.
                    If the law is classified, what then? That’s the gist of it. What does it mean for the country as a whole and all the people in it?
                    “Digging out issues” – well yes, that’s what people who are engaged with the world in any sort of considered way generally do.
                    And given that my concern over the ownership of state assets is driven by socialist concerns, trying to paint me right wing is just stupid and nasty. So you don’t like my style – hack away to your heart’s content – I don’t care. One of the things I like about the Standard is it’s diversity even if I’m not always tolerant of other people’s viewpoints. So you are entitled to attack mine, but do so with logic and reason, not hysterical accusations and attempts to shame me.

                    • xtasy

                      I do not mind debating with people who have an honest intention to debate and actually do want to discuss true, relevant subject matter.

                      That is what I miss in your bizarre comments, so, sorry, I will not bother answering to that. Trying to suddenly turn into pretended willingness to “debate”, while still ridiculing the importance of having the law interpreted correctly, objectively and fairly, that is proving you are not that serious about it all.

            • mike e 1.2.1.1.1.2

              populuxe it only took us Irish 400 years to get ours back and I’m not complaining.
              Maori started legal action against unfair land dealing and confiscation in the 1870’s with the help of the church.Because the church saw Maori were being denied their rights as British citizens .

            • mike e 1.2.1.1.1.3

              pop If you checked out your tribal history and genealogy you might find you do own
              some inheritance.
              I don’t see any Pakeha turning down inheritances.
              Maybe its a self esteem thing with you , most likely your abusive rant suggests so!

              • Populuxe1

                I didn’t inherit a monopoly on being abusive on this site, so there must be quite a lot of self-esteem thing going around.
                And equating a small inheritance with claiming the national water supply by right of ancestral ownership are not the same things at all. However wills can be legally disputed – so let’s see what happens.
                 

        • weka 1.2.1.2

          No, it’s Pakeha that force Maori into Western models of ownership and commodification of nature.
          It looks to me that while Maori might prefer to address Treaty claims from within the framework of their own world views (and their ideas of ‘ownership’ are quite different from Pakeha), they might not be granted that right by NZ legal and political processes. In that case, where they are forced to play the Pakeha game, why should they not get some income or recompense as Pakeha would in the same situation?
           
           

          • QoT 1.2.1.2.1

            where they are forced to play the Pakeha game, why should they not get some income or recompense as Pakeha would in the same situation?

            BOOM!

            People seriously need to stop with the “but now we’ve forced Maori to work within our system, how DARE they do things in line with our system instead of their own culture/traditions/worldview which we’ve determinedly stripped from them???”

            • Populuxe1 1.2.1.2.1.1

              How DARE people continue to use expressions and language that might possibly have some sort of vaguely sexist baggage attached to them in the distant past now that feminism has begun routing the patriarchy?

              • QoT

                I’m sorry, was that meant to be relevant to my comment, or are you rehashing some drama which I’ve clearly completely forgotten about? If the former, you’re going to need to elaborate. If the latter … WTF?

                • Populuxe1

                  Cultural relativism, QoT – the limits of telling other people what to do. You would, I assume, be intolerant of the treatment of women in any number of tribal cultures around the world?

                  • QoT

                    Sorry, Populuxe, your comments have set off my “trying to pointlessly pick a fight over something irrelevant to the discussion at hand, mainly to troll my feminist views” alarm. Better luck next time!

                  • Populuxe1

                    Come on QoT – one would assume you’re against genital mutilation, “honour” killings and being treated as chattels. You want to stop that don’t you? In which case how would that not be stripping people “of their own culture/traditions/worldview”? And in any case Iwi wouldn’t be doing “things in line with our system”, because “our system” doesn’t quite understand what Rangatiratanga means.

                    • xtasy

                      Rangatira and so forth is what you HATE, so you like to ridicule the other party to an agreement to what we have in NZ. If you totally reject that treaty, then that means nothing else but declare WAR agains a resident and native people in this country. So that exposes where you come from. Come on, call the game, take it on, take it all the way, we will deal to it, appropriately.

                      Is it not one of those consequences mentioned? Does JK not laugh about it (race war) ? Well, come on, bring it on, mate!

                    • bad12

                      Here dickwad, this is what those,(Pakeha), who drafted the Treaty of Waitangi took Rangatiratanga to mean,

                      Remember it was not Maori who wrote either version of the Treaty of Waitangi, it was Pakeha,

                      Treaty of Waitangi,

                      Article Two,

                      Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand, and to the respective families and individuals thereof, THE FULL, EXCLUSIVE, AND UNDISTURBED POSSESSION OF THEIR LANDS, FISHERIES, AND OTHER PROPERTIES WHICH THEY MAY COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY POSSESS, SO LONG AS IT IS THEIR WISH AND DESIRE TO RETAIN THE SAME IN THEIR POSSESSION, but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of pre-emption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate, at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf,

                      There is nothing ambiguous in the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi and as the Maori version was written by the very same people who wrote the English version then the above article two of the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi is in fact the literal translation of what the Crown intended via use of the word Rangatiratanga in the Maori version of the Treaty,

                      There is no ambiguity in the English version, at the same time as they wrote the English version those writing it also wrote what THEY saw as the Maori translation of what their intentions where in the English version,

                      Even to an obvious simpleton like you, ESTATES and OTHER PROPERTIES would cover possession of both Lakes and Rivers and possession= ownership…

                    • Populuxe1

                      Well xtasy, “Hate” is a very strong word, but yes, I suppose I do if Rangatiratanga is to be interpreted as “legal title to state assets” because I am a socialist and socialists are generally against privatisation of state assets. And anyway now you’re beginning to sound hysterical.
                      Bad, time and again it has been pointed out that the English and Maori versions of the Treaty are different, and that Rangatiratanga and Kaitiakitanga are not concepts that translate easily into English much as Ownership has no direct Maori equivalent. This has never been adequately sorted out, and yes, the Crown dicked Maori – I’m not disputing that – I am however disputing that indigenaity should supercede citizenship in this matter.
                      The meaning of Rangatiratanga and Kaitiakitanga in twnety-first century New Zealand is a serious issue that needs discussion, and it shouldn’t be used to deliver further traction to privatisation which is what is happening here.

                    • Hi Populuxe1,

                      I’m finding it a bit hard to follow your response to Q0T.

                      Are you suggesting that a culture/tradition/worldview that involves a people occupying land and making use of it to live, have children and continue their community is so foreign to Pakeha culture that it is akin to ‘genital mutilation’ and hence something that it was right and proper for Pakeha to do away with and prevent Maori continuing with? 

                      If so, that might explain a lot about the Pakeha worldview … 

                    • Populuxe1

                      Yeah, Puddleglum, not my best work. I regret it now – it was cheap and ungraceful. Sorry QoT genuinely meant – the inner troll got away on me.
                      I was comparing apples and pears to draw QoT’s attention to the fact that they’re both in the same fruit bowl and it was a little hypocritical to take one position while not acknowledging the corollary.

                    • Appreciate your honesty.

          • Populuxe1 1.2.1.2.2

            One might argue that Pakeha are forced to play the Pakeha game by the global politico-economic system. Ethical or not, there are limits to ho much traditional and tribal worldviews can be accommodated within the system – not out of choice necessarily, but by sheer global pressure.

            • xtasy 1.2.1.2.2.1

              The problem is that so called “pakeha” are nearing extinction, given low birth rates, due to materialism, selfishness, and dislike for pro-creation being so predominant amongst them now. So do not blame others for your choices, aye?!

              And what about ‘pakeha’ Russians and some other Eastern Europeans, holding records in wife and girl friend beatings in Europe?

              • Populuxe1

                What are you smoking, xstacy?
                Given Pakeha is usually defined as New Zealanders not of Maori descent and usually of European descent, I’m not sure WTF you’re on about. Russians? Put down the P pipe.
                Nor is there any evidence that family planning is making people who might be loosely described by the archaic term “caucasian” extinct. Or do I detect the sulpherous whiff of homophobia in your little rant?
                 

                • xtasy

                  you arr\e ignorant, I am afraid. You went on about “Pakeha forced to play a certain game” due to global pressures and even referred to “tribal worldviews”. So for fucks sake, what is one supposed to understand of that kind of language.

                  You are a highly manipulated hate preacher, and you have no place on this site, as you have not delivered any constructive, objective and contributing comments at all. It is all just an attack from the low slanted side.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Um, yes xtasy “tribal worldviews” is perfectly acceptable sociological talk to describe certain kinds of traditional culture that exist in contrast to “internationalism” or “modernism” or whatever you want to call it.
                    Global pressures = international law, trade, geopolitics, globalisation, founded in certain assumptions and practices. I’m not saying it’s good, but it exists.
                    I can’t be all that “highly manipulative” if someone who can’t tell the difference between Russians and Pakeha can apparently detect it – except I’m not. I am, however, putting forth a perspective and defending it, with some trolling on the side just because I’m contrary.

            • Puddleglum 1.2.1.2.2.2

              One might argue that Pakeha are forced to play the Pakeha game by the global politico-economic system

              That’s an interesting argument. If this argument is correct, I presume you would support efforts to change such a system that coerces ‘even’ Pakeha to play a game they do not wish to play?

              • Populuxe1

                Yes I would, Puddleglum. I fear globalisation – it homogenises everything like McDonalds no matter how clean the toilets are. Elements of it are reassuring though.
                I think glocalisation is possibly a good compromise as it still allows for diversity of cultural expression, and I’m all for cultural expression – I’m just leery of any cultural expression that suggests control over the commonweal.
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glocalisation

                • That’s good to know and I see where you’re coming from with the reference to glocalisation.

                  I’m a bit old-fashioned so, to me, a ‘culture’ is not something that is ‘expressed’ – it’s something that people live by, materially, socially, economically, psychologically. In order to live a culture it requires, therefore, control over the resources and forces necessary to maintain it.

                  ‘Expressing’ a culture sounds a bit like consumers ‘expressing’ their unique, individual identities via consumer goods. (Did you ever see the BBC documentary ‘Century of the Self’? If so, you’ll get the parallel I’m drawing.)

                  I’ve always thought that glocalisation is basically a case of ‘you can be anything you like, so long as you participate in the global market economy’. Personally, I’m not sure that provides many choices at the cultural level.

                  Though, of course, the Irish can have their Irish bars and drink Guinness, the Japanese can have their Sushi stalls and the French – as I discovered on a visit to Paris in 1990 – can have their fromage bleu dressing on a salad when they have a McDonalds; all of those are simply examples of the commodification of culture which fits very neatly into globalisation. 

        • lefty 1.2.1.3

          Maori are not turning water into another commodity by owning it because they are talking about a different concept of ownership.

          Some things are so valuable it is foolish to place a monetary price on them because that ineveitably makes them available for abuse and exploitation by the highest bidder.

          It is far better to own them in the sense of being guardians of a treasure so they can be used wisely.

          Our water, air, seas and native forests fall into this category.

          Maori have shown no inclination to put a price on water.

          The Greens however want to totally commidfy water because they believe putting a price on it and subjecting it to market pressures is the best way of having it valued.

          As a pakeha I prefer the Maori approach to protecting our environment and our treasures.

          • weka 1.2.1.3.1

            The Greens however want to totally commidfy water because they believe putting a price on it and subjecting it to market pressures is the best way of having it valued
             

            Citation please.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 1.2.1.4

          “Maori are helping to turn water into just another commodity”

          What rank hypocrisy! Who is trying to sell the water rights? Not Maori. I note the total lack of outrage at the fact that the National Party behaves as though it owns the water.

      • xtasy 1.2.2

        The Resource Management Act also makes a lot impossible in NZ. For instance using water gathered from the rain on the roof, because there may well be health hazards and so forth.

        Find a council outside mainly rural areas allowing it.

        I knew a mate of a mate in Manukau, who tried it, but he got all sorts of hazzles, even threats that if he would not continue paying hypothetical water rates, they would confiscate his home and property!

    • darkhorse 1.3

      There is a deeper issue that has been the reason why good government and local government has always retained control of airports water supplies and so forth.

      water supplies have a value-in-use – the benefit of a glass of water and a functional value as a water supply – the ability to place many people and industries into a small space – this is a whole of system value of infrastructure and that is why such infrastructures need to be collectively owned by those served by it – because it is an essential service, because it needs to be invested in and maintained for the whole of system value not for the benefit of a rentier or monopolist.  The monopolist benefits from running these systems at a level of scarcity that extracts monopoly rents but not at such a level that provokes some political response.  The result is that the whole economy operates at level dictated by the service owned by the monopolist not by the natural productive limits of the whole system.

  2. xtasy 2

    We have now for many years had the privatisation or part privatisation or at least corporatisation of water supplies in virtually all of NZ.

    So when we turn open the tap, the water runs and gets metered. That is in most cases.

    It is common to get charged per litres, kilo-litres and so forth, so the argument, that water is “free” and that we may only pay for the “supply” through pipe networks, admin services and a few other additional bits involved is a total farce.

    Water is already treated as a bloody commodity, because if it was “free” to us as of right, we would not be charged per volume, but perhaps simply only for basic costs to enable it to flow “freely” into our homes or businesses.

    That is not the case. Key is again a total bull-shit artist, as he is selling us a story that is total nonsense when looking at the basic realities.

    Look at your water bills, and you will see, that we now already get charged for the water itself, same as calculated waste water.

    If I want to gather water for free, I need access to springs and that is not possible, as again owners of land will trespass me.

    Key is a total jerk, trying to tell people water it “free”, so we should allow 49 per cent privately owned mixed ownership companies, what run enterprises NZers own already (thus have seized from them) to utilise “free” water, while others have to pay for it.

    Hey, Hone Key, wake up, let the Waitangi Tribunal go its course, make its recommendations, listen to it, act on it, and then set up a national agency looking after ALL water interests of ALL NZers for the future.

    YOur asset sale plan has gone rotten, opened a can of worms, and you are a total idiot as PM. Only the too indifferent and uninformed majority still let you get off the hook , but your days are surely numbered!

    • weka 2.1

      I’ve never paid for water on a per litre basis, nor lived anywhere with a water meter, either in town or in rural areas.

      • xtasy 2.1.1

        Then you are the lucky exemption. Here in Auckland we all get charged. OK some get unmetered water, but they pay a hefty fixed annual charge now (as far as I gather going up right now), to cover prospective water consumption.

        The plan is, and this will be pursued by WaterCare and other suppliers, to charge all on metered basis. Fixed charges are for one side of costs, but the rest is metered, so consumption is measured and relevant, and the more you use, the more you pay.

        That to me is “commoditisation” and “user pays” for water, no doubt at all. Perhaps also talk to Penny Bright about this, she is a real expert on this!

        • Ad 2.1.1.1

          Why are you against metering water use?

          • xtasy 2.1.1.1.1

            I am not against water metering, as long as charges are reasonable and fair.

            My argument is, we have a Prime Minister, going around and telling media and the public that water is “free”, which is total garbage and BS.

            So while this goes on, most of us get charged for “use of” water, which is based on consumption rates and metered, thus making it a bloody commodity.

            If Key has any integrity, and if water is supposed to be “free”, he and his government should then abolish charges based on metered water, right?!

            • Paw prick 2.1.1.1.1.1

              No the price you pay is for the supply of water not for the water it’s self!

              • Murray Olsen

                If that’s the case, prick, why do they charge by volume, rather than a rental on the supply hardware?

            • Paw prick 2.1.1.1.1.2

              Will you extend that logic to farmers who irrigate 1000s of cubes a day??

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                Speaking of farmers, this one got prosecuted for stealing water. So just give it up already.

        • Populuxe1 2.1.1.2

          Actually it would appear that Auckland is the exception in this case. Most of New Zealand doesn’t have water meters.

          • xtasy 2.1.1.2.1

            So only Aucklanders get ripped off left right and centre!? We are supposed to have “free” water, which is not the case in Auckland and has not been the case in Papakura for a long time? Get Penny Bright onto this, I will not take this further, as it sounds like a hell of a lot of bullshit.

            • felix 2.1.1.2.1.1

              I don’t live in Auckland. Water meters are being installed right now.

              Ak will not be the exception for long now that everything’s up for grabs.

          • mike e 2.1.1.2.2

            Guess who’s allowing Auckland to have free water from the Whanganui
            populuxe Maori.

  3. weka 3

    I’m fairly sure that all of Canterbury, Otago and Southland charge for water via rates for domestic use and don’t use meters. I’d guess it’s the same for the whole of the SI.
     
    I take your point though, and agree that using a corporate model to manage water demonstrates that someone owns it (or thinks they do), and that Key is a disingenuous shit.

    • xtasy 3.1

      Excuse my lack of info on the South Island situation, but here up north, we have, especially in the Auckland region, been faced with de facto “privatisation” and “user pays” of water for well over ten years now.

      This may serve as a healthy warning to all those down south, to what may well be in store for you next. Beware, be alert and stop it in the beginnings, because once they set up such user pays, it is bloody hard to turn back the clock.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.1

        Um, we’ve been arguing against it for donkeys years in both Dunedin and Christchurch. Not that water quality in Dunedin is all that super. But thanks for your concern.

        • xtasy 3.1.1.1

          You should not “argue”, you should “unite” and take action, but is that beyond your imagination and intention?

  4. NotDarkYet 4

    1. ‘Maori’ aren’t claiming ‘ownership’ of water. First, no one speaks for ‘Maori’. Certainly not the NZMC reincarnated with Eddie Durie at the helm. Second, the case, if and when it goes to court, will definitely not bother trying to overturn fundamentals of common law such as free flowing water being incapable of ownership. Though, obviously, water is most definitely owned once captured, in pipes/tanks etc. 4. All that aside, the post is absolutely on the money: gaining a consent to take water from a river is a property right. Further much of our flowing water IS now effectively owned, since under our current crazy system of first in first served consents, most major and accessible rivers are fully allocated: that is, you cannot take any more water from them, because its already all spoken for. The most egregious example is Meridians 30 year right to take ALL the water from the entire Benmore hydro system. That is an extraordinarily valuable property right. And its exclusive, and exclusionary. Albeit, it is more like a rental of the river system than a freehold, since there’s a 30 term involved.
    5. The point, then, is that the NZMC argue that this system is, surely rightly, in the process of being overhauled, and they are yet to have their stake/role in any new system defined, and that role is potentially prejudiced by the current sales.
    6. The weakest link in that argument is definitely the last, though see the case of Meridian outlined above.
    7. The fundamental of the argument, that Maori (qua Maori, or via historical injustice) have rights in water, is not an easy thing to think about, and pat answers only betray unthinking prejudice. IMHO.
    8. The questions are: has the automatic application of the common law depiction of property in water done damage to Maori, and the rights they held and thought they were guaranteed until parting with willingly?: (Yes). Does that require recompense? (Probably) Does that have to be in the form of water rights? (perhaps)

    Its worth remembering New Zealand has busily gone about departing from almost every other presumption of common law on water, and has so often done so too often in order to deny Maori any property rights. See Crown law’s contortions (and eventual recourse to political settlements) over the Whanganui River, Lake Taupo, Lake Waikaremoana. And the foreshore…Etc etc etc….

    • bad12 4.1

      My view is this, Article Two of the Treaty of Waitangi,(English version), is totally unambiguous, ANY ambiguity between the English and Maori texts of that Treaty are in fact inherent within such text via the translation of the Colonial Governor’s representatives,

      At the time, on behalf of the Crown the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi was written the same people who wrote the English text also translated that text into what they thought was the Maori equivalent, Maori on a tribal or Rangatira basis had no imput into the writing of either version so we can take it as written that where there is discordance between the two versions of the treaty, Maori and English, the intention of the Crown was clearly set out in the English version and it was the Crown who wrote the Maori version believing that they were giving a literal translation of their intentions as set out in the English version,

      Article Two, Treaty of Waitangi,(english version), and i quote, ”CONFIRMS AND GUARANTEES TO THE CHIEFS AND TRIBES OF NEW ZEALAND AND TO THE RESPECTIVE FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS THEREOF, THE FULL, EXCLUSIVE, AND UNDISTURBED POSSESSION OF THEIR LANDS, ESTATES, FISHERIES, AND OTHER PROPERTIES THAT THEY MAY COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY POSSESS,” unquote,

      From that point on,anything the Crown,(now the New Zealand Government), did within the rivers and lakes of New Zealand from building electricity generating dams to allowing water resources to be allocated by Councils from the rivers and lakes simply breaches the intent of article two,

      Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….

      • RedLogix 4.1.1

        Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….

        And all other land and resources in this country.

        All you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now.

        (Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)

        • Pete George 4.1.1.1

          This is disgraceful. It deserves strong condemnation from moderators and commenters here.

          • higherstandard 4.1.1.1.1

            It’s satire you git.

            RL and I may disagree very regularly but he strongly dislikes bigotry whichever direction it comes from.

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.1.1

              RedLogix knew exactly what he was doing here. The only thing he didn’t do was have a red flashing neon sign on it. But he has a history of trying to use satire as an excuse for stirring up political and racial divides. I think it’s a serious misjudgement to use a phrase like that in the current climate.

              It was a deliberate racial provocation, and that can’t be easily laughed off as ‘satire’. Not everyone knows RedLogix (nor agrees with inappropriate satire). And not everyone sees things as ‘satire’ as is evident by mickysavage’s response, he was just making a lame excuse for this on face value.

              You may think RedLogix ‘strongly dislikes bigotry’ but try satire like this directed at Maori while claiming you ‘strongly dislike bigotry’ and see how understanding and approving of satire marty mars et al are. They can fly off the handle on imagined offence.

              (Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)

              /using deliberate racial provocation using satire as an excuse

              • felix

                Pete.

                It’s painful watching you twist yourself up over something you’ve obviously misunderstood, and now you’re directly attacking a moderator because you’re too stupid to know what you’re reading.

                If you have any sense of self-preservation you’ll prove me wrong by showing that you know what RL’s comment means.

                Go on. State for the record what you understand RL to have been saying. (Should be able to do it in one sentence, it’s not a complicated point he was making)

              • Um Pete it was clear to me it was satire, the mention of tags reinforced this.

                It was not clear to me that you realized it was satire.  You might have been genuinely confused instead of feigning disgust which was the other possibility.  I addressed you presuming the best.  

                Do not confuse my charity for support for your interpretation. 

                • Thanks for the advice. It’s handy to know that you can say anything you like here as long as you mention tags.

                  And it was interesting to see who swiftly responded.

                  • felix

                    Having witnessed:

                    a) your struggle with very simple analogy and metaphor, and

                    b) your apparent belief that insults, returned verbatim, automatically retain their relevance regardless of context, and

                    c) your inability to follow the most basic “IF THEN” logical sequence,

                    I’m not at all convinced that you have any idea what RL’s comment referred to.

                    Please prove me wrong.

                  • Petey did you really quote RL out of context on the sewer?

                    Did you really claim he said “[a]ll you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now” without the rest of his comment so that the context was not there?

                    Did you also say:

                    “Someone has to hold them to account DG. Besides, I’m learning a lot about how activists on the left operate”?

                    Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?

                    So many questions …
                     

                    • deuto

                      MS, you bet me to it re PG’s quoting out of context (again) on KB.

                      IMO you and felix have been over generous in your comments above re his possibly misunderstanding the satire. Sorry, his getting on his high horse is faux, considering the seriously racial remarks on FB against Maori on KB – and not a peep from PG on those remarks.

                      Update – and he is now at it again on KB General Debate this morning – that is, now quoting part of your comment there.

                    • Thanks Deuto.

                      Petey sure is a psychology textbook full of interesting features! 

                    • felix

                      So now he’s not only slagging off RL here, but after having plenty of opportunity to explain what he’s having trouble grasping, he’s deliberately misquoting him on other sites?

                      Far be it from me etc etc but if it were my site I wouldn’t have him back ever.

                    • “Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?”

                      That is exactly what the kiwibogcandidate does and look who he hangs with over there his old mate, lowest of the very low, garrett.

                      It is all unravelling pete – everyone knows what you are.

                    • felix, you’ve been getting hissier lately, because your incessant niggles have been going nowhere? So you decided to help engineer an escalation? Sorry if I didn’t react enough for your wee plan.

                      Far be it from me etc etc but it’s looking a bit desperate isn’t it?

                      You really don’t like free and honest speech, do you.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      “…engineer an escalation…”

                      Keep twisting and turning, wriggling and writhing on the point of that pin, specimen. You’re on display.

                    • felix

                      “So you decided to help engineer an escalation?”

                      If you mean “decided to find out whether you knew what you were reading”, then yes. But I haven’t been running around the internet misquoting you.

                      “You really don’t like free and honest speech, do you.”

                      Yes I do Pete, and I’m encouraging you to take part in some. Unsuccessfully it appears, as you still haven’t attempted to explain what you think RL’s comment meant.

                      Please, prove me wrong and show that you understood it. I urge you.

                      If you won’t, can you really blame me for assuming you can’t?

                    • Petey please answer my questions.
                      Did you really claim RL said “[a]ll you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now” without the rest of his comment so that the context was not there?
                      Did you also say:
                      “Someone has to hold them to account DG. Besides, I’m learning a lot about how activists on the left operate”?
                      Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?

          • bad12 4.1.1.1.2

            Yes you are, as you have received strong condemnation from a number of commentor’s on a daily basis here at the Standard i will not bother to add mine…

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.3

            LOL pete you need to take a break from the webs

          • mickysavage 4.1.1.1.4

            Yeah.  The theft of lands and forests and waterways and fisheries are immaterial but use a couple of cross words and there is hell to pay.

            • QoT 4.1.1.1.4.1

              Micky, the feelings of old white dudes are paramount. If we don’t protect old white dudes’ feelings, can we ever truly achieve utopia?

          • Populuxe1 4.1.1.1.5

            You might have missed the invisible </tongue_in_cheek> there Pete

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.5.1

              Ah, no, the game was obvious, but it was interesting to see the usual suspects jump in here with nodding approval, compared to the levels of offence they manufacture for things I don’t even say or imply.

              Try playing a trick like that pointed in the opposite racial direction and see how they nod. And play the ‘tongue in cheek’ or tag defence and see how sensitive to humour they are.

              Te Maori puthetic. /end

              • felix

                Nice try Pete.

                Actually, no it wasn’t. That was a terrible try. You’re really not very good at any of this.

                Good to see you finally voicing an opinion though. Pity it’s a horrible one.

                • You’re very predictable felix. Have you responded to yesterday’s question yet? Or have you conveniently ignored it?

                  • felix

                    That thread was an effort to hold you to account for some implications you made but are unwilling to stand behind and unable to explain away when questioned. The logical interpretation has been laid out before you in the simplest possible ways, several times, and you have utterly failed to challenge it.

                    Throwing out a random query to try to change the subject doesn’t alter that, Pete, and I’m still waiting for a serious response.

                    As for this latest little faux par of yours (awkward), what do you think RL’s comment meant?

                    Honestly. What do you really think it meant?

                  • mike e

                    pg good morning Vietnam petey boy your like the DJ no one likes who plays opposite Robin Williams.
                    lt Steven Hauk a pathetic grovelar who follows the propaganda line and has no soul played by the late Bruno Kirby.

              • Te Maori puthetic. /end

                always got to play the person not the ball eh pete – that just shows the truth of you – nowhere to hide pete, remember you admitted the truth – “I acknowledge I’m sometimes negative and sometimes stir.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13072012/comment-page-1/#comment-493086 that was a bit of it there wasn’t it pete – a game for you to get your jollies and those jollies must be hard to get because you appear to have a very stunted sense of humour.

        • felix 4.1.1.2

          “(Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)”

          The “explaining the bleeding obvious to fools” tag might be the go, judging by Pete’s reaction.

      • weka 4.1.2

        Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….
         

        Except where there has been legitimate sale by iwi. Anyone know if any rivers and lakes were sold? I’m assuming that water running through land that was sold was considered by Pakeha and the Crown to become owned by the person who bought the land or by the Crown, but that Maori may have seen this differently.

  5. prism 5

    We have metered water in Nelson, metered on volumes. The City Council charges for it. We put in expensive water filters as we were showing too much particulate matter or organisms or both and the treatment plant was expensive, and the filters are also and have to be replaced every 5-10 years. It cut down water use, which is a way of enforced saving, and forcing people to value stuff which costs money to collect and pipe to whatever points. The water collectors built in Africa for villages are a boon. Paying for ours should be kept within bounds but not expected to be free at point of use. General water rates don’t being usage home to individuals.

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    Mana | 09-09
  • Charter school crisis shows time to axe costly experiment
    Dysfunction from day one at a Northland charter school shows it is time to dump this costly and failed experiment by the National-ACT Government, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru received $27,000 in government funding...
    Labour | 08-09
  • Labour will crack down on loan sharks
    A Labour Government will crack down on predatory loan sharks by making it illegal both to charge exorbitant interest rates and to exploit uninformed borrowers, Labour’s Consumer Affairs Spokesperson Carol Beaumont says. Labour today released its Consumer Affairs policy which...
    Labour | 08-09
  • Let’s do the FEED before the weed
    “Last week I put out a very strongly worded email to my colleagues about an online promotion about cannabis law reform” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira “and I stand by that criticism today.” My concern was...
    Mana | 08-09
  • TE KAEA and NATIVE AFFAIRS live to fight another day
    “I understand that both the chair of the Board of Maori Television, Georgina Te Heuheu, and new CEO, Paora Maxwell, are now saying that my comments this morning about their plans to cut Te Kaea and Native Affairs, were wrong, and that...
    Mana | 08-09
  • How come the PM only pays 2.8% of his income in tax – Harawira
    “Before John Key talks about the piddling tax cuts he plans for low and middle income families today he needs to explain why he only pays 2.8% of his income on tax while a minimum wage worker pays 28% tax,”...
    Mana | 07-09
  • THE DEATH OF INDEPENDENCE FOR MAORI TV
    “If what I’m hearing is true, tomorrow Maori Television Service (MTS) will dump its news programme, Te Kaea, and staff will lose their jobs” said MANA Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira “and the Minister of Maori...
    Mana | 07-09
  • Labour recommits to Pike River families
    An incoming Labour-led government will do everything possible to recover the bodies of the Pike River Miners and return them to their families, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “This tragedy and its aftermath has left the families of the 29...
    Labour | 06-09
  • Voting has started and still no tax plan or fiscal budget for voters to see
    "Even though voting for the election has already begun, National still refuses to provide any details of its proposed tax cuts. And Bill English admitted this morning that he won’t provide any specifics until after the election", Labour’s Finance spokesperson...
    Labour | 06-09
  • National’s partners’ tax plans cost at least $42 billion
    If National forms the next government its partners’ tax plans will cost the country at least $42 billion, and maybe as much as $50 billion, wreaking havoc with the books, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker. “National claims to be...
    Labour | 05-09
  • Labour: Providing more opportunities for young Kiwis
    A Labour Government will ensure every young Kiwi under the age of 20 is given the opportunity to be in work, education or training, and plans to develop a conservation apprenticeship scheme to help do that, Labour’s Youth Affairs spokesperson...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Candles out on teachers’ slice of birthday cake
    Today may be Novopay’s second birthday, but there’s little to celebrate, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Novopay has cost the taxpayer tens of millions of dollars already, and the cost is still climbing....
    Labour | 04-09
  • National’s blatant broadband pork barrelling misses the mark by a country...
    National’s blatant pork-barrelling ICT announcement today should reinforce a growing sceptical electorate’s view that they are all about the gift wrap and not the present, Labour’s ICT spokesperson Clare Curran says. “Instead of addressing the real issues - the woeful...
    Labour | 04-09
  • More evidence of the need to clean up the system
    The latest release of emails and messages between disgraced Minister Judith Collins and blogger Cameron Slater are more evidence of the urgent need to clean up politics, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. "This new evidence confirms a near constant flow...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Labour commits to stable funding for voluntary sector
    A Labour Government will establish long-term funding and streamline contract accountability for community and voluntary groups, says Labour’s spokesperson for the sector Louisa Wall. Announcing Labour’s policy for the community and voluntary sector, she said this would give much greater...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Better trained and skilled workforce under Labour
    Labour is committed to a skilled workforce that benefits businesses as well as their workers, and will increase workplace training to improve productivity and drive innovation, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Labour believes the Government should support New Zealanders into...
    Labour | 03-09
  • Labour will make renting a better option
    Labour will provide greater security of tenure for renters, and build more state and social housing, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Labour believes every kid deserves a decent start in life. That means a warm, dry and secure home....
    Labour | 03-09
  • At least 15 new taxes under National
    John Key is the last person to talk about creating taxes, presiding over a Government that has imposed at least 15 new taxes, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “John Key tried a novel line in the debate last night claiming...
    Labour | 03-09
  • Labour will strengthen New Zealand’s democracy
    A Labour Government will act quickly to protect and enhance New Zealand’s reputation as one of the most open and least corrupt countries in the world, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “The health of any democracy is improved by greater...
    Labour | 02-09
  • MANA Movement says tax cut on GST must be first priority – Minto
    “If Prime Minister John Key has money available for tax cuts then cutting GST must be the first priority”,  said MANA Movement Economic Justice Spokesperson John Minto. GST is a nasty tax on low-income families”, said Minto. “People in the...
    Mana | 02-09
  • The Maori Party’s Mana-Enhancing Relationship with National – Minto
    “First we had Cameron Slater and David Farrar backing Labour’s Kelvin Davis bid to unseat MANA Movement Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Hone Harawira.  Now we have Slater writing a pro-Te Ururoa Flavell article on his website, Whale...
    Mana | 02-09
  • There’s Only One Poll That Counts
    “One of the oldest sayings in politics is that there is only one poll that counts – the one on Election Day – and that’s the one that I am focusing on” remarked the MANA Movement candidate for Waiariki, Annette...
    Mana | 02-09
  • Local communities critical to Civil Defence
    Labour will focus on empowering New Zealand communities to be resilient in Civil Defence disasters, says Labour’s Civil Defence spokesperson Clare Curran. Announcing Labour’s Civil Defence policy, she says that Labour will work with schools, voluntary agencies and community groups...
    Labour | 02-09
  • Labour looks to long-life passports, gambling harm review
    A return to 10 year passports and a review of gambling laws are highlights of Labour’s Internal Affairs policy released today. “More than 15,000 New Zealanders signed a petition calling on the Government to revert to the 10 year system...
    Labour | 02-09
  • MANA Movement Leadership stands strong behind Internet MANA relationship
    “There is now, and always will be, a range of views about many issues within our movement and members are free to express them, but Georgina’s views on Kim Dotcom are not shared by the MANA Movement leadership or the vast majority...
    Mana | 01-09
  • Rebuilding the New Zealand Defence Force
    A Labour Government will make it a priority to rebuild the capacity of the Defence Force to carry out the tasks expected of it, says Labour’s Defence Spokesperson Phil Goff. Releasing Labour’s Defence Policy today he said the NZDF has...
    Labour | 01-09
  • Speech to Canterbury Chamber of Commerce
    Today I'm going to talk about our policy package to upgrade and grow our economy and how we turn that growth into a foundation for a decent and fair society. But first I want to address the issue of our...
    Labour | 01-09
  • Commission of Inquiry must have bipartisan support
    The Labour Party is drafting terms of reference for a Commission of Inquiry, Labour’s Shadow Attorney-General David Parker says. “It is abundantly clear there is a need for an independent Commission of Inquiry, chaired by a High Court Judge, into...
    Labour | 01-09
  • Rapid Transit to unclog Christchurch
    Labour will build a 21st century Rapid Transit system for Christchurch, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “The long delayed recovery of Christchurch hinges on a modern commuter system for the city. “We will invest $100 million in a modern rail plan...
    Labour | 31-08
  • Bill English’s latest insult to beneficiaries – apparently they are lik...
    National’s hatred towards the poor continues unabated as National desperately try to throw raw meat to their reactionary voter base in the hope to inspire enough hate and loathing to win back their redneck voters from the Conservative Party and from...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Eminem ain’t happy with John Key
    Eminem ain’t happy with John Key...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Key claims he did not inhale
    Key claims he did not inhale...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Final prediction on election result 2014
    What an election campaign. The character assassination of David Cunliffe kicked things off with the Herald on Sunday falsely claiming $100 00 bottles of wine, $15 000 books and $150 000 in donations  from a donor that turned out to be...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Live blog: Bainamarama takes commanding lead in Fiji elections
      Interview with Repúblika editor Ricardo Morris and Pacific Scoop’s Mads Anneberg. PACIFIC SCOOP TEAM By Ricardo Morris, Mads Anneberg, Alistar Kata and Biutoka Kacimaiwai in Suva WHILE the results are provisional at this stage, it is clear today that...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • 5AA Australia: NZ Elections Two Days To Go! + Edward Snowden + Julian Assan...
    Recorded live on 18/09/14 – Captured Live on Ustream at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/multimedia-investments-ltd 5AA Australia’s Peter Godfrey and Selwyn Manning deliver their weekly bulletin: Across The Ditch. This week, they discuss the latest news as New Zealanders go to the polls on...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • What has Colin Craig done for his Press Secretary to quit 2 days before ele...
    This is VERY strange.  Colin Craig’s Press Secretary Rachel McGregor, has quit 2 days before the election, allegedly telling ZB that Colin Craig was a “very manipulative man”. I’ve met Rachel many times in the past as Colin’s Press Secretary, she is...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • “If you want steak, go to the supermarket and buy steak,” – A brief w...
    “If you want steak, go to the supermarket and buy steak,” said Key in the final leaders debate. Problem of course is that the 250 000 – 285 000 children living in poverty can not afford steak, milk, butter, eggs...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • National’s final bash of beneficiaries before the election
    On cue, whenever National feel threatened, they roll out a little bennie bash just to keep their redneck voter base happy. Nothing like a bit of raw meat policy to keep National voters focused on the evil threat solo parents...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • With All Of This In Mind, I Vote
    This is my last blog before the election and I really just want to speak from the heart. Right now in this country it seems to me that a lot of people consider the “essentials” in life to be simply...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Left has to vote strategically this election
    The dedication, loyalty, and tribalism of party politics means that sometimes the left lets itself down by not voting strategically. We all want our favoured party to get maximum votes, naturally, but the winner-takes-all approach doesn’t always suit multi-party left...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Dear NZ – as you enter the polling booth, stand up for your rights
    The last days before a NZ general election are a busy time as politicians make their pitch and party activists prepare to get out the vote. It is sort of weird watching from the distance of Europe the strangest election...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • What is Waihopai, John, if it isn’t a facility for “mass surveillance...
    John Key assured us on RNZ’s Nine to Noon programme yesterday that “In terms of the Fives Eyes data bases… yes New Zealand will contribute some information but not mass wholesale surveillance.” How does this square with the operation of the...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Catherine Delahunty – Mass Surveillance and the Banality of E...
    Renowned journalist and intellectual Hannah Arendt coined the phrase “the banality of evil” to describe the normalisation of genocide in Nazi Germany. I thought of her phrase when I was listening to Glenn Greenwald and other international whistle-blowers talking about...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Election. Down. To. The. Wire
    Funny how last week it was John Key winning by 50%, now it’s neck and neck. I have always believed this election would be down to the wire and it is proving so. The flawed landline opinion polls the mainstream...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • 3rd Degree uses Whaleoil for story ideas as if Dirty Politics never happene...
    TV3s 3rd Degrees smear job on Kim Dotcom last night doesn’t bear much repeating. It was pretty pathetic journalism from a team who have brought us some great journalism in the past. It is sad to see 3rd Degree stooping...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Live blog: Bainimarama takes early lead in Fiji’s election
    Pacific Scoop’s Alistar Kata reports from yesterday’s voting. By Alistar Kata of Pacific Scoop in Suva Prime Minister Voreqe Bainimarama took an early lead in provisional results in the Fiji general election last night. With provisional results from 170 out...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Has The NSA Constructed The Perfect PPP?
    Former intelligence analyst and whistleblower, Edward Snowden – speaking live to those gathered at the Auckland Town Hall on Monday September 17, 2014. Investigation by Selwyn Manning. THE PRIME MINISTER JOHN KEY’s admission on Wednesday that whistleblower Edward Snowden “may...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • No way – Key admits Snowden is right
    After claiming there was no middle ground. After claiming there was no mass surveillance. After calling Glenn Greenwald a henchman and a loser. After all the mainstream media pundits screamed at Kim’s decision to take his evidence to Parliamentary Privileges...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Bad luck National
    ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • The incredible changing John Key story on mass spying – why the Moment of...
    While the mainstream media continue to try and make the Moment of Truth about Kim’s last minute decision to prolong his battle against John Key past the election into the Privileges Committee, the reality is that the Moment of Truth...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Themes of the Campaign
    There’s one area of a political campaign that just about everyone, at some point, falls afoul of. The campaign song. I’m not sure quite why it is, but it seems to be almost impossible for political parties to come up...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • GUEST BLOG – Denis Tegg – The NSA slides that prove mass surveillance
    The evidence presented by Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden on The Intercept of mass surveillance of New Zealanders by the GCSB is undeniable, and can stand on its own. But when you place this fresh evidence in the context of...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • Ukraine, United Kingdom, Ireland, Scotland
    The Ukrainian civil war discomforts me. It seems to me the most dangerous political crisis since the Cuban missile crisis of 1962. And it’s because of our unwillingness to examine the issues in a holistic way. We innately prefer to...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • John Key’s love affair with a straw man – the relationship intensifies
    John Key’s love affair with the straw man is now a fully-committed relationship. It’s now the first love of his life. Sorry Bronagh. Yesterday I pointed to Key’s constant assurances that there is no mass surveillance of New Zealanders by...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • A brief word on why Wendyl Nissen is a hero
    Wendyl Nissen is a hero. The sleazy black ops attack on her by Slater and Odgers on behalf of Grocery Council chief executive Katherine Rich is sick. All Nissen is doing in her column is point out the filth and...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • She saw John Key on TV and decided to vote!
    . . NZ, Wellington, 15 September – ‘Tina’* is 50, a close friend,  and one of the “Missing Million” from the last election. In fact, ‘Tina’ has never voted in her life.  Not once. In ‘Tina’s’ own words, politics has...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • Eminem sues National Party for unlawful use of ‘Lose yourself’ bhahahah...
    …ahahahahahahahaha. Oh Christ this is hilarious… National Party sued over Eminem copyright infringment US rapper Eminem is suing the National Party for allegedly breaching copyright by using his song Lose Yourself in its campaign advertisements. The Detroit-based publishers of Eminem’s...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • Are the Greens about to be snookered by a Labour-NZ First Government?
    I wrote last week that it was smart politics that the Greens pointed out they could work with National, the soft blue vote that’s looking for a home in the wake of Dirty Politics isn’t going to Labour, so the...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • BLOGWATCH: Fonterra join 2Degrees and boycott Whaleoil
    In the wake of Dirty Politics, advertisers are pulling their advertising out of Whaleoil. PaknSave, Evo Cycles Pukekohe, Localist, 2 Degrees, Fertility Associates, iSentia, NZ Breast Cancer Foundation, Maori TV, Bookme.co.nz, Dobetter.co.nz and the Sound are now joined by Fonterra...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • PM Key accused of allowing secret ‘spook’ cable sensors to spy on citiz...
    Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald (left) and Kim Dotcom at the “moment of truth” political surveillance meeting in Auckland last night. Image: PMW By ANNA MAJAVU of Pacific Media Watch NEW ZEALAND Prime Minister John Key has been accused of...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • Fiji pre-election ‘politics’ blackout stirs media protests, frustration
    BLACKOUT DAY – Monday, day one of the “silence window” in Fiji leading up to the close of polling in the general election at 6pm on Wednesday. And this is under the draconian threat of a $10,000 fine or five...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • “Now the work of movements begins”: government corruption, media bias, ...
    I am so tired of the dirty politics of the National government, aren’t you? I am tired of John Key and his pathetic attacks on award-winning journalists who have spent their careers fighting and digging for truth and good. The...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • Moment of Truth review, smoking guns and the awful coverage by the NZ msm
      There were queues unlike any the Town Hall has seen, 1000 were turned away once it became full…     …full to the rafters. The energy and atmosphere within the room was extraordinary, and it begun…   …Glenn Greenwald...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • Why Maori TV’s Te Tai Tokeraou Poll will be proved wrong
    If Hone Harawira had a dollar every time the media wrote off his chance of winning Te Tai Tokeraou, he would have more money than Kim Dotcom. Remember the by-election? Hone was 1 point ahead of Kelvin in an exact...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • September 15 RNZ interviews – and then the Moment of Truth
    . Acknowledgement: Emmerson . 15 September – Leading up to the Moment of Truth public meeting this evening, these Radio NZ interviews are worth listening to; . Alt link . Alt link . Alt link . Alt link . Alt...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • Live Stream: Moment of Truth Tonight 7pm
    Live Video Stream by eCast: The Daily Blog will Live Stream the Moment of Trust public meeting from 7pm. The meeting will feature Glenn Greenwald, Kim Dotcom, Robert Amsterdam, and a very special guest…...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • The proof Key lied about GCSB mass surveillance
    And we start getting to the evidence that proves Key has lied about mass surveillance. The article by Glenn Greenwald is out and it is beyond damning… Documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden show that the government worked in...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • A brief word on the Ede-Slater emails
    Every day I have rushed to read the paper to see if a breaking story on the Ede-Slater emails had broken yet. They haven’t. Day after day, where are these emails? We know Rawshark sent the emails to David Fisher...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • The email that proves Key is a liar
    This is the Email proving Key knew about Kim Dotcom before he claims he did… “We had a really good meeting with the Prime Minister. He’s a fan and we’re getting what we came for. Your groundwork in New Zealand...
    The Daily Blog | 15-09
  • Henchmen
    Henchmen...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • Why it simply isn’t credible that Key stepped in and shut down the mass s...
    Key’s staggering admission that yes there was a year long business model by the GCSB to mass spy on all of NZ but  that he stepped in and shut it down after Cabinet had signed it off just sounds like make...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • John Key’s love affair with a straw man
    Politicians like putting up straw men for the purpose of self-righteously knocking them over. Prime Minister John Key has a particular straw man he loves to punch over. He raises it whenever he’s asked about mass surveillance of New Zealanders...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • John Armstrong turns on Glenn Greenwald
    Where does a mediocre journalist like John Armstrong get off attacking a journalist with the credibility of Glenn Greenwald as he has in his ridiculous column today? Armstrong has the audacity to try and play the terrorism card to justify why...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Denis Tegg – Which of John Key’s many statements on the GC...
    We already have Glenn Greenwald’s assertion on The Nation that John Key has misled New Zealanders as to whether the GCSB has engaged in mass surveillance of Kiwis. But Key has made many other statements about the GCSB’s powers and...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • Election 2014: Numbers and Faces
    Democratic politics is a game of numbers and faces. How can we translate the numbers into the 120 or more faces that will be in the next Parliament? Below is my prediction of a likely result: 120 people, divided by...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • Scotland the brave
    The possibility that Scotland will vote for independence this Thursday has panicked the British establishment. An unholy alliance of Tory, Labour, Liberal and corporate leaders has resorted to fear-mongering and bullying on grand scale in a last ditch effort to...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • Why Key’s denials sound so off and why Dotcom’s fight is all our fight
    The shrillness of Key is the issue. His denials just too forced and rehearsed. Key has gone from Hollow Man to Shallow Man with his lashing out at Pulitzer Price winning Journalist Glenn Greenwald by calling him a ‘henchman’. This...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • Letters to the Editor – Spies, Lies, Five Eyes, and other matters on a S...
    . . Sharing a few thoughts and observations with newspaper editors around the country… . from: Frank Macskasy <fmacskasy@gmail.com>to: Sunday Star Times <letters@star-times.co.nz>date: Sun, Sep 14, 2014 subject: Letter to the Editor . The Editor Sunday Star Times . Our...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • Letters to the Editor – Spies, Lies, Five Eyes, and other matters on a Su...
    . . Sharing a few thoughts and observations with newspaper editors around the country… . from: Frank Macskasy <fmacskasy@gmail.com>to: Sunday Star Times <letters@star-times.co.nz>date: Sun, Sep 14, 2014 subject: Letter to the Editor . The Editor Sunday Star Times . Our...
    The Daily Blog | 14-09
  • Falling economic growth – wage rises overdue
    “The lower GDP growth in the three months to June is further evidence that growth has peaked. New Zealand’s economy is on the way down to mediocre growth rates,” says CTU economist Bill Rosenberg. “Yet wage rises are still weak...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Get Out and Vote campaign a success
    Tens of thousands of workers from all around New Zealand have embraced the Get Out and Vote campaign and have created their own personalised voting plan, the CTU said today. “With three days of voting left in the 2014 General...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Animal Research Failing – So Do More Animal Research?
    Victoria University of Wellington is about to host a lecture on why the success rates of pharmaceutical development is so low and what can be done about it. The New Zealand Anti-Vivisection Society (NZAVS) welcomes discussion on this important...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • ALCP welcomes Prime Minister’s cannabis comments
    Mr Abbott's comments came on the same day as New South Wales and Victoria states announced they would be doing clinical trials of cannabis....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Conservative Party Press Secretary Resignation
    The Conservative Party is given to understand that this morning Press Secretary, Miss Rachel Macgregor resigned althought no formal advice of this has yet been received....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • By ACT’s logic, Epsom should vote for Conservative Candidate
    “Polling released late in the campaign shows that ACT is a busted flush and that by ACT’s own logic, centre-right Epsom voters should vote for the Conservative candidate”, says Labour candidate for Epsom Michael Wood....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • New online medical system
    Immigration New Zealand (INZ) is seeking registrations of interest for a new onshore panel physician network to support an online immigration health processing system....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Students, You Have a Choice, Vote!
    The New Zealand Union of Students’ Associations (NZUSA) is imploring students to ensure they make their voices heard this election, and join the many thousands who have already heeded the call....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Party vote ACT for three years of stability.
    Voters who are concerned that on the latest polls we may be heading for three years of instability have it in their hands to deliver a decisive result....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Women’s Suffrage Movement – Get Out and Vote!
    Tomorrow, Friday 19th September, MANA Movement Candidate for Waiariki, Annette Sykes, will cast her vote at 12 noon at the Zen’s Building, Rotorua. This will follow a march through Rotorua that will assemble at 10am at City Focus, Rotorua. The...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • iPredict Daily Update
    David Cunliffe and Labour have made gains over the last 24 hours, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict, but John Key’s National is still strongly expected to lead the next...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Conservative’s Proposal to Abolish Parole Fatally Flawed
    The Conservative Party’s proposal to abolish parole doesn't stack up, however which way you look at it, concludes Kim Workman in Rethinking Crime and Punishment latest blog, ‘Abolishing Parole and Other Crazy Stuff’ at http://blog.rethinking.org.nz/2014/09/krill-and-womble-independent-policy.html...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Special Edition : The letter 18 September 2014
    Dr Jamie Whyte has been giving thoughtful speeches largely unreported. So we thought we would put out an edited version on the speech he gave yesterday. The full speech is on the website....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Differences in educational level reflected in voter choice
    Differences in educational level reflected in voter preferences The Green party has the highest proportion of tertiary educated supporters and NZ First has the least according to an analysis by the Election Data Consortium. The Consortium is made...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Renters need assistance to improve poor housing conditions
    Thursday 18 September 2014 Renters are living in poorer conditions than homeowners and are less empowered to improve their housing situation according to a study by medical students at the University of Otago, Wellington. The fourth year medical...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Pacific Island Affairs & NZ Police to work more closely
    The Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs Chief Executive, Pauline Winter, and The Commissioner of Police, Mike Bush, are this afternoon signing a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the Ministry and the New Zealand Police....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Te Hira Paenga sets the record straight
    In recent days there has been much speculation about my campaign in Te Tai Tokerau. Some commentators have suggested that I should step down or endorse the Labour candidate in an attempt to stop the Internet Party riding on the...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Last Chance to Enrol to Vote – Don’t Miss Out
    Last Chance to Enrol to Vote – Don’t Miss Out If you’re not enrolled now, you need to hurry or you won’t be able to vote in this Saturday’s general election. “Election day is almost here, and it’s your last...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Stuart Nash voted against wishes of Napier Electorate
    Napier Conservative Party Candidate Garth McVicar says the recent decision by the Advertising Standards Authority in reply to a complaint laid by Stuart Nash’s campaign manager confirms that Nash voted against the wishes of the Napier electorate. Robert...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • What price life asks Conservative Party
    The Conservative Party are asking what is the price of life if the killer of a defenceless homeless man who was viciously beaten and left to die was jailed for just 11 and a half years....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • National Stands To Lose Votes If Animal Welfare Is Ignored
    SAFE has presented Prime Minister John key with a 40,000 signature-strong petition calling for a farrowing crate ban....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Statement From Kim Dotcom
    Tonight Third Degree broadcast issues raised by three former staff members who are in dispute with us....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Three Internet-Mana Policies Blow the Bribe-O-Meter to Bits
    The Taxpayers’ Union has received advice that the cost of just three Internet-Mana policies is $17.6 billion - higher than the entire policy packages of the three main political parties combined. Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Pregnancy Help Welcomes Green Party Packs for Newborn Babies
    Pregnancy Help applauds Metiria Turei acknowledging that “for many parents the birth of a new child is a highly stressful and financially straining time” and the desire for every child to thrive....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • McVicar Welcomes ASA Decision
    Napier Conservative Party Candidate Garth McVicar welcomes the Advertising Standards Authority’s decision to not uphold the pamphlet complaint of Robert Johnson, Campaign Manager for Napier Labour candidate Stuart Nash. The ASA acknowledged that one complaint...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Whyte: In 12 months’ time, here is what will matter
    In three days’ time I will be elected along with a number of ACT MPs. I think the media will be surprised and ask how it happened?...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Internet MANA Will Grant Special Residency to Edward Snowden
    Internet MANA will put the case to the new government to welcome global surveillance whistle blower Edward Snowden, granting him safe passage and residency in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Ten millionth traveller uses SmartGate
    The 10 millionth traveller to pass through SmartGate, Customs’ automated passenger processing system, was greeted by Customs Manager Passenger Operations, Peter Lewis today at Auckland International Airport....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Key vs. Cunliffe: Final Live NZ Election Reactor 7pm Tonight
    John Key and David Cunliffe go head to head for the last time tonight and you can decide who wins by driving the worm. This is the last live Election Reactor covering the debate tonight at 7pm on TV One....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Offenders Get Road Safety Message
    Wellington Community Corrections partnered with emergency services, government agencies, organisations and Kapiti Coast District Council to deliver an innovative road safety programme to 70 community-based offenders at Southwards Car Museum on Tuesday 16...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Proposed law to decriminalise Abortion
    http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news2011/politics_news/12/q_a_interview__list_mp_jan_logie_n2.jpgRight to Life is disappointed that the Green Party is refusing to provide a response to the seven very important questions that have been addressed to Jan Logie, spokesperson...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Election 2014 Will Be Costly
    The Taxpayers’ Union has today released the final update for its ' Bribe-O-Meter ' election costing website in the lead-up to Saturday’s general election. Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Roy Morgan Poll September 17
    John Key set to win narrow election victory on Saturday as Labour/Greens slump puts Winston Peters in powerful position as NZ First surge to 8% Today’s New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows National (46.5%, up 1.5%) set to win a...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Wahakura Package would provide warm welcome for babies
    The Greens Wahakura Welcome package announced yesterday is a wonderful example of child-centred policy which would help all children get a fair and equal start in life, says Child Poverty Action Group. CPAG health spokesperson Innes Asher says,...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • TPPA a Sellout to American Corporate Greed
    New Zealand will become a permanent prisoner to the United States’ greed and global arrogance if the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) isn’t stopped, warns Internet MANA....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Wintry showers and blustery winds for Election Day
    As we head towards the weekend, it is time to look at what the weather will be for New Zealand's "Have Your Say" Day....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • New national secretary announced
    The PSA is pleased to announce the appointment of Erin Polaczuk to the role of national secretary....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Public Secotr & TISA: On the cusp of something very special?
    Is the National Party keeping some things out of sight in case they frighten the electorate? Here is some worrying evidence that this may be the case....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • MPI ups yacht biosecurity ante
    Yachts arriving in Northland from overseas this season will face greater biosecurity scrutiny, says the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI)....
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • iPredict Election Update
    John Key’s National Party now has an 88% probability of leading the next government , most probably with the support of NZ First, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict. There...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • Crowdfunding to Save Native Fish
    NZ Landcare Trust is offering an exciting project designed to assist native fish, as part of the launch of a new global crowdfunding category called 'The Landcare & Environment Collection.' This exciting step, aims to help raise funds and support,...
    Scoop politics | 17-09
  • New methods needed to reach non-voters
    Non-voters are much heavier users of the internet than those who do vote, while 43 per cent of non-voters say they never read a newspaper according to research released today by the Election Data Consortium....
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • Parties sent home with report cards
    More than 2000 New Zealanders came together to run a full page ad in the Herald today asking all Parties what they will commit to do to clean up politics. The answers are in, and ActionStation has graded Parties on...
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • One in 10 Kiwis want Winston Peters to Run the Country -Poll
    New Zealand First leader, Winston Peters has seen his personal popularity reach a three-year high in the final 3News/Reid Research poll ahead of Election Day....
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • Shut Down This Govt Not Kaiti WINZ
    "I’m going to make it as hard for you to get help as I can" is Paula Bennett’s message to the people of Kaiti said MANA candidate Te Hāmua Nikora today in response to the news that National will close...
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • New methods needed to reach non-voters
    Non-voters are much heavier users of the internet than those who do vote, while 43 per cent of non-voters say they never read a newspaper according to research released today by the Election Data Consortium....
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • Conservatives Break Through 5% Threshold
    Reports in today’s Dominion Post that the Conservative Party is polling at 6% in Nationals internal polling are not surprising says the Conservative Napier candidate Garth McVicar....
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • The MANA Plan for Beneficiaries and Income in Waiariki
    Median Personal Income for Waiariki is $21,700. Over 13,000 Maori who live in Waiariki rely upon a form of government benefit including the Unemployment Benefit, Sickness Benefit, Domestic Purpose Benefit and the Invalids Benefit....
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • IGIS: No Indiscriminate Interception of NZers’ Data Found
    “As part of my role as Inspector-General, I review whether the GCSB complies with the restrictions upon interception of New Zealanders’ communications and with the requirement to intercept communications only for authorised purposes. That review...
    Scoop politics | 16-09
  • Conservatives Break through 5% Threshold
    Reports in today’s Dominion Post that the Conservative Party is polling at 6% in Nationals internal polling are not surprising says the Conservative Napier candidate Garth McVicar....
    Scoop politics | 16-09
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