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Water ownership – first principles

Written By: - Date published: 3:35 pm, July 14th, 2012 - 103 comments
Categories: treaty settlements, water - Tags:

When you have the legal power to control aspects of how something is used, those are property rights, and when you have the legal power to exclude use of something by someone -for instance, by allocating exclusive usage rights to someone else – that’s ownership. The Crown allocates water rights, ipso facto, the Crown believes it owns the water.

If someone, the Crown, has the power to allocate the right to use water then that person, the Crown, must be asserting that it gets to decide what happens with the water – who uses it and how and who doesn’t – ie, that it owns it.

Iwi disagree. And that’s simply an evidential matter. It’s not a matter of whether the water can be owned or not, because clearly it can.

To say you can’t own water but you can own land is soft-headed mysticism. Just because something’s a liquid or a gas doesn’t mean it can’t be owned but the land can be because it’s solid. Otherwise, I must be free to drink at will from all those bottles of water in the dairy.

103 comments on “Water ownership – first principles”

  1. Ad 1

    Yes it’s odd to have a National Prime Minister having an anarcho-syndicalist moment. But for argument’s sake let me defend him.

    Theoretically anyone can have a rainwater tank and collected free water, and treat is afterwards. As rain water it’s a free public good.

    In practice the pipe network capex and maintenance, storage and treatment of both wastewater and fresh water all need to be paid for. One pays water companies for all the services and treatment and convenience of supply about that water, rather than paying for raw rainwater itself.

    I think this extends to hydro generation as well. Water facilities were usually formed as public works, and we pay for the added value that the facilities provide.

    Consumers should pay for what consumers take. And that price should be paid to those who have assets that add value to that water, whether that is for potable reticulated water, industrial uses, irrigation, or generation.

    Water belongs to the earth. Those who add value to it, and those who pollute it, should pay those who bring it to us in the state we want it.

    To me what is missing is a water price regulator, in which those who charge for water use in all its forms are required to prove how they came to that price. Just like airports have to prove to airlines the level of airport landing charges, or the Electricity Commission makes sure Transpower is charging the right amount for transmitting bulk electricity. Particularly because in practice water providers are monopolies.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 1.1

      Nah, you’re buying into an ethnocentric approach. Monetary value isn’t the only measure of intrinsic worth.

      • weka 1.1.1

        +1

      • OneTrack 1.1.2

        So why do Maori want money for it? It sounds like Maori share the “ethnocentric” view that things only have monetary value.

        • felix 1.1.2.1

          You might have noticed that maori haven’t actually wanted money for it so far.

          Why do you think that might be?

    • weka 1.2

      “Theoretically anyone can have a rainwater tank and collected free water, and treat is afterwards. As rain water it’s a free public good.”

      For now. There are places in the US where it is illegal to collect rainwater, or they limit how much you are allowed to collect (not enough to live on). This is where we are headed when we treat water and land as commodities. The main difference between the US and NZ is that they’re a bit further down the path of turning their island into a desert than us.

      • OneTrack 1.2.1

        And Maori are helping to turn water into just another commodity by asserting their ownership of it.

        • mike e 1.2.1.1

          OT Europeans taught Maori the value of Money.
          Now Maori are making money after Europeans took just about all their lands by what we call insider trading practices.
          I smell the racial politics of envy!

          • Populuxe1 1.2.1.1.1

            Well you would, because you’re a nutter. Except that we’re talking about state owned assets and Maori have all the same rights as any other New Zealand citizen. individual Iwi taking ownership also deprives other Maori of benefit, not just we evil demonic Europeans. Nor do two wrongs make a right – I fail to see why what the crimes and misdemeanors some historical personage whose only connection to me is complexion and language spoken, should be visited upon me – thanks very much. I imagine if a similar claim somehow directly affected you, you might consider things somewhat differently.
             

            • xtasy 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Populuxe1: What exactly are you on about, and what are you trying to prove or disprove? I am lost about your rant.

              • Populuxe1

                Oh I just get bored whenever someone shrieks “racism” in an argument as if it actually proves anything without being justified – especially when it’s historical racism.
                Especially as in this case Maori as a whole will not benefit and in fact will suffer if significant control of resources are given over to individual Iwi.
                Sorry you have a reading disability.

                • xtasy

                  I have NO reading disability and clearly detect your racist slant now.

                  so I have no issues with Maori and the Council or iwi, as long as they are merely seeking a clarification of the law, which is what this is so far all about. You apparently are one trying to dig out issues and edges to create arguments for argument’s sake. That is not what I am interested in. so I suggest you just go to Kiwi Blog or elsewhere, where Farrar Fartarse and such cater for your simple minded nonsense.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Well no – jumping up on a chair, pointing at me and shrieking “racist” is fairly typical of someone who fears debate. Nor does expressing concern of at the possible outcome of something necessarily make one racist just because one of the parties is ethnically grouped.
                    If the law is classified, what then? That’s the gist of it. What does it mean for the country as a whole and all the people in it?
                    “Digging out issues” – well yes, that’s what people who are engaged with the world in any sort of considered way generally do.
                    And given that my concern over the ownership of state assets is driven by socialist concerns, trying to paint me right wing is just stupid and nasty. So you don’t like my style – hack away to your heart’s content – I don’t care. One of the things I like about the Standard is it’s diversity even if I’m not always tolerant of other people’s viewpoints. So you are entitled to attack mine, but do so with logic and reason, not hysterical accusations and attempts to shame me.

                    • xtasy

                      I do not mind debating with people who have an honest intention to debate and actually do want to discuss true, relevant subject matter.

                      That is what I miss in your bizarre comments, so, sorry, I will not bother answering to that. Trying to suddenly turn into pretended willingness to “debate”, while still ridiculing the importance of having the law interpreted correctly, objectively and fairly, that is proving you are not that serious about it all.

            • mike e 1.2.1.1.1.2

              populuxe it only took us Irish 400 years to get ours back and I’m not complaining.
              Maori started legal action against unfair land dealing and confiscation in the 1870’s with the help of the church.Because the church saw Maori were being denied their rights as British citizens .

            • mike e 1.2.1.1.1.3

              pop If you checked out your tribal history and genealogy you might find you do own
              some inheritance.
              I don’t see any Pakeha turning down inheritances.
              Maybe its a self esteem thing with you , most likely your abusive rant suggests so!

              • Populuxe1

                I didn’t inherit a monopoly on being abusive on this site, so there must be quite a lot of self-esteem thing going around.
                And equating a small inheritance with claiming the national water supply by right of ancestral ownership are not the same things at all. However wills can be legally disputed – so let’s see what happens.
                 

        • weka 1.2.1.2

          No, it’s Pakeha that force Maori into Western models of ownership and commodification of nature.
          It looks to me that while Maori might prefer to address Treaty claims from within the framework of their own world views (and their ideas of ‘ownership’ are quite different from Pakeha), they might not be granted that right by NZ legal and political processes. In that case, where they are forced to play the Pakeha game, why should they not get some income or recompense as Pakeha would in the same situation?
           
           

          • QoT 1.2.1.2.1

            where they are forced to play the Pakeha game, why should they not get some income or recompense as Pakeha would in the same situation?

            BOOM!

            People seriously need to stop with the “but now we’ve forced Maori to work within our system, how DARE they do things in line with our system instead of their own culture/traditions/worldview which we’ve determinedly stripped from them???”

            • Populuxe1 1.2.1.2.1.1

              How DARE people continue to use expressions and language that might possibly have some sort of vaguely sexist baggage attached to them in the distant past now that feminism has begun routing the patriarchy?

              • QoT

                I’m sorry, was that meant to be relevant to my comment, or are you rehashing some drama which I’ve clearly completely forgotten about? If the former, you’re going to need to elaborate. If the latter … WTF?

                • Populuxe1

                  Cultural relativism, QoT – the limits of telling other people what to do. You would, I assume, be intolerant of the treatment of women in any number of tribal cultures around the world?

                  • QoT

                    Sorry, Populuxe, your comments have set off my “trying to pointlessly pick a fight over something irrelevant to the discussion at hand, mainly to troll my feminist views” alarm. Better luck next time!

                  • Populuxe1

                    Come on QoT – one would assume you’re against genital mutilation, “honour” killings and being treated as chattels. You want to stop that don’t you? In which case how would that not be stripping people “of their own culture/traditions/worldview”? And in any case Iwi wouldn’t be doing “things in line with our system”, because “our system” doesn’t quite understand what Rangatiratanga means.

                    • xtasy

                      Rangatira and so forth is what you HATE, so you like to ridicule the other party to an agreement to what we have in NZ. If you totally reject that treaty, then that means nothing else but declare WAR agains a resident and native people in this country. So that exposes where you come from. Come on, call the game, take it on, take it all the way, we will deal to it, appropriately.

                      Is it not one of those consequences mentioned? Does JK not laugh about it (race war) ? Well, come on, bring it on, mate!

                    • bad12

                      Here dickwad, this is what those,(Pakeha), who drafted the Treaty of Waitangi took Rangatiratanga to mean,

                      Remember it was not Maori who wrote either version of the Treaty of Waitangi, it was Pakeha,

                      Treaty of Waitangi,

                      Article Two,

                      Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand, and to the respective families and individuals thereof, THE FULL, EXCLUSIVE, AND UNDISTURBED POSSESSION OF THEIR LANDS, FISHERIES, AND OTHER PROPERTIES WHICH THEY MAY COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY POSSESS, SO LONG AS IT IS THEIR WISH AND DESIRE TO RETAIN THE SAME IN THEIR POSSESSION, but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of pre-emption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate, at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf,

                      There is nothing ambiguous in the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi and as the Maori version was written by the very same people who wrote the English version then the above article two of the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi is in fact the literal translation of what the Crown intended via use of the word Rangatiratanga in the Maori version of the Treaty,

                      There is no ambiguity in the English version, at the same time as they wrote the English version those writing it also wrote what THEY saw as the Maori translation of what their intentions where in the English version,

                      Even to an obvious simpleton like you, ESTATES and OTHER PROPERTIES would cover possession of both Lakes and Rivers and possession= ownership…

                    • Populuxe1

                      Well xtasy, “Hate” is a very strong word, but yes, I suppose I do if Rangatiratanga is to be interpreted as “legal title to state assets” because I am a socialist and socialists are generally against privatisation of state assets. And anyway now you’re beginning to sound hysterical.
                      Bad, time and again it has been pointed out that the English and Maori versions of the Treaty are different, and that Rangatiratanga and Kaitiakitanga are not concepts that translate easily into English much as Ownership has no direct Maori equivalent. This has never been adequately sorted out, and yes, the Crown dicked Maori – I’m not disputing that – I am however disputing that indigenaity should supercede citizenship in this matter.
                      The meaning of Rangatiratanga and Kaitiakitanga in twnety-first century New Zealand is a serious issue that needs discussion, and it shouldn’t be used to deliver further traction to privatisation which is what is happening here.

                    • Hi Populuxe1,

                      I’m finding it a bit hard to follow your response to Q0T.

                      Are you suggesting that a culture/tradition/worldview that involves a people occupying land and making use of it to live, have children and continue their community is so foreign to Pakeha culture that it is akin to ‘genital mutilation’ and hence something that it was right and proper for Pakeha to do away with and prevent Maori continuing with? 

                      If so, that might explain a lot about the Pakeha worldview … 

                    • Populuxe1

                      Yeah, Puddleglum, not my best work. I regret it now – it was cheap and ungraceful. Sorry QoT genuinely meant – the inner troll got away on me.
                      I was comparing apples and pears to draw QoT’s attention to the fact that they’re both in the same fruit bowl and it was a little hypocritical to take one position while not acknowledging the corollary.

                    • Appreciate your honesty.

          • Populuxe1 1.2.1.2.2

            One might argue that Pakeha are forced to play the Pakeha game by the global politico-economic system. Ethical or not, there are limits to ho much traditional and tribal worldviews can be accommodated within the system – not out of choice necessarily, but by sheer global pressure.

            • xtasy 1.2.1.2.2.1

              The problem is that so called “pakeha” are nearing extinction, given low birth rates, due to materialism, selfishness, and dislike for pro-creation being so predominant amongst them now. So do not blame others for your choices, aye?!

              And what about ‘pakeha’ Russians and some other Eastern Europeans, holding records in wife and girl friend beatings in Europe?

              • Populuxe1

                What are you smoking, xstacy?
                Given Pakeha is usually defined as New Zealanders not of Maori descent and usually of European descent, I’m not sure WTF you’re on about. Russians? Put down the P pipe.
                Nor is there any evidence that family planning is making people who might be loosely described by the archaic term “caucasian” extinct. Or do I detect the sulpherous whiff of homophobia in your little rant?
                 

                • xtasy

                  you arr\e ignorant, I am afraid. You went on about “Pakeha forced to play a certain game” due to global pressures and even referred to “tribal worldviews”. So for fucks sake, what is one supposed to understand of that kind of language.

                  You are a highly manipulated hate preacher, and you have no place on this site, as you have not delivered any constructive, objective and contributing comments at all. It is all just an attack from the low slanted side.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Um, yes xtasy “tribal worldviews” is perfectly acceptable sociological talk to describe certain kinds of traditional culture that exist in contrast to “internationalism” or “modernism” or whatever you want to call it.
                    Global pressures = international law, trade, geopolitics, globalisation, founded in certain assumptions and practices. I’m not saying it’s good, but it exists.
                    I can’t be all that “highly manipulative” if someone who can’t tell the difference between Russians and Pakeha can apparently detect it – except I’m not. I am, however, putting forth a perspective and defending it, with some trolling on the side just because I’m contrary.

            • Puddleglum 1.2.1.2.2.2

              One might argue that Pakeha are forced to play the Pakeha game by the global politico-economic system

              That’s an interesting argument. If this argument is correct, I presume you would support efforts to change such a system that coerces ‘even’ Pakeha to play a game they do not wish to play?

              • Populuxe1

                Yes I would, Puddleglum. I fear globalisation – it homogenises everything like McDonalds no matter how clean the toilets are. Elements of it are reassuring though.
                I think glocalisation is possibly a good compromise as it still allows for diversity of cultural expression, and I’m all for cultural expression – I’m just leery of any cultural expression that suggests control over the commonweal.
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glocalisation

                • That’s good to know and I see where you’re coming from with the reference to glocalisation.

                  I’m a bit old-fashioned so, to me, a ‘culture’ is not something that is ‘expressed’ – it’s something that people live by, materially, socially, economically, psychologically. In order to live a culture it requires, therefore, control over the resources and forces necessary to maintain it.

                  ‘Expressing’ a culture sounds a bit like consumers ‘expressing’ their unique, individual identities via consumer goods. (Did you ever see the BBC documentary ‘Century of the Self’? If so, you’ll get the parallel I’m drawing.)

                  I’ve always thought that glocalisation is basically a case of ‘you can be anything you like, so long as you participate in the global market economy’. Personally, I’m not sure that provides many choices at the cultural level.

                  Though, of course, the Irish can have their Irish bars and drink Guinness, the Japanese can have their Sushi stalls and the French – as I discovered on a visit to Paris in 1990 – can have their fromage bleu dressing on a salad when they have a McDonalds; all of those are simply examples of the commodification of culture which fits very neatly into globalisation. 

        • lefty 1.2.1.3

          Maori are not turning water into another commodity by owning it because they are talking about a different concept of ownership.

          Some things are so valuable it is foolish to place a monetary price on them because that ineveitably makes them available for abuse and exploitation by the highest bidder.

          It is far better to own them in the sense of being guardians of a treasure so they can be used wisely.

          Our water, air, seas and native forests fall into this category.

          Maori have shown no inclination to put a price on water.

          The Greens however want to totally commidfy water because they believe putting a price on it and subjecting it to market pressures is the best way of having it valued.

          As a pakeha I prefer the Maori approach to protecting our environment and our treasures.

          • weka 1.2.1.3.1

            The Greens however want to totally commidfy water because they believe putting a price on it and subjecting it to market pressures is the best way of having it valued
             

            Citation please.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 1.2.1.4

          “Maori are helping to turn water into just another commodity”

          What rank hypocrisy! Who is trying to sell the water rights? Not Maori. I note the total lack of outrage at the fact that the National Party behaves as though it owns the water.

      • xtasy 1.2.2

        The Resource Management Act also makes a lot impossible in NZ. For instance using water gathered from the rain on the roof, because there may well be health hazards and so forth.

        Find a council outside mainly rural areas allowing it.

        I knew a mate of a mate in Manukau, who tried it, but he got all sorts of hazzles, even threats that if he would not continue paying hypothetical water rates, they would confiscate his home and property!

    • darkhorse 1.3

      There is a deeper issue that has been the reason why good government and local government has always retained control of airports water supplies and so forth.

      water supplies have a value-in-use – the benefit of a glass of water and a functional value as a water supply – the ability to place many people and industries into a small space – this is a whole of system value of infrastructure and that is why such infrastructures need to be collectively owned by those served by it – because it is an essential service, because it needs to be invested in and maintained for the whole of system value not for the benefit of a rentier or monopolist.  The monopolist benefits from running these systems at a level of scarcity that extracts monopoly rents but not at such a level that provokes some political response.  The result is that the whole economy operates at level dictated by the service owned by the monopolist not by the natural productive limits of the whole system.

  2. xtasy 2

    We have now for many years had the privatisation or part privatisation or at least corporatisation of water supplies in virtually all of NZ.

    So when we turn open the tap, the water runs and gets metered. That is in most cases.

    It is common to get charged per litres, kilo-litres and so forth, so the argument, that water is “free” and that we may only pay for the “supply” through pipe networks, admin services and a few other additional bits involved is a total farce.

    Water is already treated as a bloody commodity, because if it was “free” to us as of right, we would not be charged per volume, but perhaps simply only for basic costs to enable it to flow “freely” into our homes or businesses.

    That is not the case. Key is again a total bull-shit artist, as he is selling us a story that is total nonsense when looking at the basic realities.

    Look at your water bills, and you will see, that we now already get charged for the water itself, same as calculated waste water.

    If I want to gather water for free, I need access to springs and that is not possible, as again owners of land will trespass me.

    Key is a total jerk, trying to tell people water it “free”, so we should allow 49 per cent privately owned mixed ownership companies, what run enterprises NZers own already (thus have seized from them) to utilise “free” water, while others have to pay for it.

    Hey, Hone Key, wake up, let the Waitangi Tribunal go its course, make its recommendations, listen to it, act on it, and then set up a national agency looking after ALL water interests of ALL NZers for the future.

    YOur asset sale plan has gone rotten, opened a can of worms, and you are a total idiot as PM. Only the too indifferent and uninformed majority still let you get off the hook , but your days are surely numbered!

    • weka 2.1

      I’ve never paid for water on a per litre basis, nor lived anywhere with a water meter, either in town or in rural areas.

      • xtasy 2.1.1

        Then you are the lucky exemption. Here in Auckland we all get charged. OK some get unmetered water, but they pay a hefty fixed annual charge now (as far as I gather going up right now), to cover prospective water consumption.

        The plan is, and this will be pursued by WaterCare and other suppliers, to charge all on metered basis. Fixed charges are for one side of costs, but the rest is metered, so consumption is measured and relevant, and the more you use, the more you pay.

        That to me is “commoditisation” and “user pays” for water, no doubt at all. Perhaps also talk to Penny Bright about this, she is a real expert on this!

        • Ad 2.1.1.1

          Why are you against metering water use?

          • xtasy 2.1.1.1.1

            I am not against water metering, as long as charges are reasonable and fair.

            My argument is, we have a Prime Minister, going around and telling media and the public that water is “free”, which is total garbage and BS.

            So while this goes on, most of us get charged for “use of” water, which is based on consumption rates and metered, thus making it a bloody commodity.

            If Key has any integrity, and if water is supposed to be “free”, he and his government should then abolish charges based on metered water, right?!

            • Paw prick 2.1.1.1.1.1

              No the price you pay is for the supply of water not for the water it’s self!

              • Murray Olsen

                If that’s the case, prick, why do they charge by volume, rather than a rental on the supply hardware?

            • Paw prick 2.1.1.1.1.2

              Will you extend that logic to farmers who irrigate 1000s of cubes a day??

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                Speaking of farmers, this one got prosecuted for stealing water. So just give it up already.

        • Populuxe1 2.1.1.2

          Actually it would appear that Auckland is the exception in this case. Most of New Zealand doesn’t have water meters.

          • xtasy 2.1.1.2.1

            So only Aucklanders get ripped off left right and centre!? We are supposed to have “free” water, which is not the case in Auckland and has not been the case in Papakura for a long time? Get Penny Bright onto this, I will not take this further, as it sounds like a hell of a lot of bullshit.

            • felix 2.1.1.2.1.1

              I don’t live in Auckland. Water meters are being installed right now.

              Ak will not be the exception for long now that everything’s up for grabs.

          • mike e 2.1.1.2.2

            Guess who’s allowing Auckland to have free water from the Whanganui
            populuxe Maori.

  3. weka 3

    I’m fairly sure that all of Canterbury, Otago and Southland charge for water via rates for domestic use and don’t use meters. I’d guess it’s the same for the whole of the SI.
     
    I take your point though, and agree that using a corporate model to manage water demonstrates that someone owns it (or thinks they do), and that Key is a disingenuous shit.

    • xtasy 3.1

      Excuse my lack of info on the South Island situation, but here up north, we have, especially in the Auckland region, been faced with de facto “privatisation” and “user pays” of water for well over ten years now.

      This may serve as a healthy warning to all those down south, to what may well be in store for you next. Beware, be alert and stop it in the beginnings, because once they set up such user pays, it is bloody hard to turn back the clock.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.1

        Um, we’ve been arguing against it for donkeys years in both Dunedin and Christchurch. Not that water quality in Dunedin is all that super. But thanks for your concern.

        • xtasy 3.1.1.1

          You should not “argue”, you should “unite” and take action, but is that beyond your imagination and intention?

  4. NotDarkYet 4

    1. ‘Maori’ aren’t claiming ‘ownership’ of water. First, no one speaks for ‘Maori’. Certainly not the NZMC reincarnated with Eddie Durie at the helm. Second, the case, if and when it goes to court, will definitely not bother trying to overturn fundamentals of common law such as free flowing water being incapable of ownership. Though, obviously, water is most definitely owned once captured, in pipes/tanks etc. 4. All that aside, the post is absolutely on the money: gaining a consent to take water from a river is a property right. Further much of our flowing water IS now effectively owned, since under our current crazy system of first in first served consents, most major and accessible rivers are fully allocated: that is, you cannot take any more water from them, because its already all spoken for. The most egregious example is Meridians 30 year right to take ALL the water from the entire Benmore hydro system. That is an extraordinarily valuable property right. And its exclusive, and exclusionary. Albeit, it is more like a rental of the river system than a freehold, since there’s a 30 term involved.
    5. The point, then, is that the NZMC argue that this system is, surely rightly, in the process of being overhauled, and they are yet to have their stake/role in any new system defined, and that role is potentially prejudiced by the current sales.
    6. The weakest link in that argument is definitely the last, though see the case of Meridian outlined above.
    7. The fundamental of the argument, that Maori (qua Maori, or via historical injustice) have rights in water, is not an easy thing to think about, and pat answers only betray unthinking prejudice. IMHO.
    8. The questions are: has the automatic application of the common law depiction of property in water done damage to Maori, and the rights they held and thought they were guaranteed until parting with willingly?: (Yes). Does that require recompense? (Probably) Does that have to be in the form of water rights? (perhaps)

    Its worth remembering New Zealand has busily gone about departing from almost every other presumption of common law on water, and has so often done so too often in order to deny Maori any property rights. See Crown law’s contortions (and eventual recourse to political settlements) over the Whanganui River, Lake Taupo, Lake Waikaremoana. And the foreshore…Etc etc etc….

    • bad12 4.1

      My view is this, Article Two of the Treaty of Waitangi,(English version), is totally unambiguous, ANY ambiguity between the English and Maori texts of that Treaty are in fact inherent within such text via the translation of the Colonial Governor’s representatives,

      At the time, on behalf of the Crown the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi was written the same people who wrote the English text also translated that text into what they thought was the Maori equivalent, Maori on a tribal or Rangatira basis had no imput into the writing of either version so we can take it as written that where there is discordance between the two versions of the treaty, Maori and English, the intention of the Crown was clearly set out in the English version and it was the Crown who wrote the Maori version believing that they were giving a literal translation of their intentions as set out in the English version,

      Article Two, Treaty of Waitangi,(english version), and i quote, ”CONFIRMS AND GUARANTEES TO THE CHIEFS AND TRIBES OF NEW ZEALAND AND TO THE RESPECTIVE FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS THEREOF, THE FULL, EXCLUSIVE, AND UNDISTURBED POSSESSION OF THEIR LANDS, ESTATES, FISHERIES, AND OTHER PROPERTIES THAT THEY MAY COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY POSSESS,” unquote,

      From that point on,anything the Crown,(now the New Zealand Government), did within the rivers and lakes of New Zealand from building electricity generating dams to allowing water resources to be allocated by Councils from the rivers and lakes simply breaches the intent of article two,

      Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….

      • RedLogix 4.1.1

        Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….

        And all other land and resources in this country.

        All you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now.

        (Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)

        • Pete George 4.1.1.1

          This is disgraceful. It deserves strong condemnation from moderators and commenters here.

          • higherstandard 4.1.1.1.1

            It’s satire you git.

            RL and I may disagree very regularly but he strongly dislikes bigotry whichever direction it comes from.

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.1.1

              RedLogix knew exactly what he was doing here. The only thing he didn’t do was have a red flashing neon sign on it. But he has a history of trying to use satire as an excuse for stirring up political and racial divides. I think it’s a serious misjudgement to use a phrase like that in the current climate.

              It was a deliberate racial provocation, and that can’t be easily laughed off as ‘satire’. Not everyone knows RedLogix (nor agrees with inappropriate satire). And not everyone sees things as ‘satire’ as is evident by mickysavage’s response, he was just making a lame excuse for this on face value.

              You may think RedLogix ‘strongly dislikes bigotry’ but try satire like this directed at Maori while claiming you ‘strongly dislike bigotry’ and see how understanding and approving of satire marty mars et al are. They can fly off the handle on imagined offence.

              (Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)

              /using deliberate racial provocation using satire as an excuse

              • felix

                Pete.

                It’s painful watching you twist yourself up over something you’ve obviously misunderstood, and now you’re directly attacking a moderator because you’re too stupid to know what you’re reading.

                If you have any sense of self-preservation you’ll prove me wrong by showing that you know what RL’s comment means.

                Go on. State for the record what you understand RL to have been saying. (Should be able to do it in one sentence, it’s not a complicated point he was making)

              • Um Pete it was clear to me it was satire, the mention of tags reinforced this.

                It was not clear to me that you realized it was satire.  You might have been genuinely confused instead of feigning disgust which was the other possibility.  I addressed you presuming the best.  

                Do not confuse my charity for support for your interpretation. 

                • Thanks for the advice. It’s handy to know that you can say anything you like here as long as you mention tags.

                  And it was interesting to see who swiftly responded.

                  • felix

                    Having witnessed:

                    a) your struggle with very simple analogy and metaphor, and

                    b) your apparent belief that insults, returned verbatim, automatically retain their relevance regardless of context, and

                    c) your inability to follow the most basic “IF THEN” logical sequence,

                    I’m not at all convinced that you have any idea what RL’s comment referred to.

                    Please prove me wrong.

                  • Petey did you really quote RL out of context on the sewer?

                    Did you really claim he said “[a]ll you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now” without the rest of his comment so that the context was not there?

                    Did you also say:

                    “Someone has to hold them to account DG. Besides, I’m learning a lot about how activists on the left operate”?

                    Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?

                    So many questions …
                     

                    • deuto

                      MS, you bet me to it re PG’s quoting out of context (again) on KB.

                      IMO you and felix have been over generous in your comments above re his possibly misunderstanding the satire. Sorry, his getting on his high horse is faux, considering the seriously racial remarks on FB against Maori on KB – and not a peep from PG on those remarks.

                      Update – and he is now at it again on KB General Debate this morning – that is, now quoting part of your comment there.

                    • Thanks Deuto.

                      Petey sure is a psychology textbook full of interesting features! 

                    • felix

                      So now he’s not only slagging off RL here, but after having plenty of opportunity to explain what he’s having trouble grasping, he’s deliberately misquoting him on other sites?

                      Far be it from me etc etc but if it were my site I wouldn’t have him back ever.

                    • “Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?”

                      That is exactly what the kiwibogcandidate does and look who he hangs with over there his old mate, lowest of the very low, garrett.

                      It is all unravelling pete – everyone knows what you are.

                    • felix, you’ve been getting hissier lately, because your incessant niggles have been going nowhere? So you decided to help engineer an escalation? Sorry if I didn’t react enough for your wee plan.

                      Far be it from me etc etc but it’s looking a bit desperate isn’t it?

                      You really don’t like free and honest speech, do you.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      “…engineer an escalation…”

                      Keep twisting and turning, wriggling and writhing on the point of that pin, specimen. You’re on display.

                    • felix

                      “So you decided to help engineer an escalation?”

                      If you mean “decided to find out whether you knew what you were reading”, then yes. But I haven’t been running around the internet misquoting you.

                      “You really don’t like free and honest speech, do you.”

                      Yes I do Pete, and I’m encouraging you to take part in some. Unsuccessfully it appears, as you still haven’t attempted to explain what you think RL’s comment meant.

                      Please, prove me wrong and show that you understood it. I urge you.

                      If you won’t, can you really blame me for assuming you can’t?

                    • Petey please answer my questions.
                      Did you really claim RL said “[a]ll you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now” without the rest of his comment so that the context was not there?
                      Did you also say:
                      “Someone has to hold them to account DG. Besides, I’m learning a lot about how activists on the left operate”?
                      Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?

          • bad12 4.1.1.1.2

            Yes you are, as you have received strong condemnation from a number of commentor’s on a daily basis here at the Standard i will not bother to add mine…

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.3

            LOL pete you need to take a break from the webs

          • mickysavage 4.1.1.1.4

            Yeah.  The theft of lands and forests and waterways and fisheries are immaterial but use a couple of cross words and there is hell to pay.

            • QoT 4.1.1.1.4.1

              Micky, the feelings of old white dudes are paramount. If we don’t protect old white dudes’ feelings, can we ever truly achieve utopia?

          • Populuxe1 4.1.1.1.5

            You might have missed the invisible </tongue_in_cheek> there Pete

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.5.1

              Ah, no, the game was obvious, but it was interesting to see the usual suspects jump in here with nodding approval, compared to the levels of offence they manufacture for things I don’t even say or imply.

              Try playing a trick like that pointed in the opposite racial direction and see how they nod. And play the ‘tongue in cheek’ or tag defence and see how sensitive to humour they are.

              Te Maori puthetic. /end

              • felix

                Nice try Pete.

                Actually, no it wasn’t. That was a terrible try. You’re really not very good at any of this.

                Good to see you finally voicing an opinion though. Pity it’s a horrible one.

                • You’re very predictable felix. Have you responded to yesterday’s question yet? Or have you conveniently ignored it?

                  • felix

                    That thread was an effort to hold you to account for some implications you made but are unwilling to stand behind and unable to explain away when questioned. The logical interpretation has been laid out before you in the simplest possible ways, several times, and you have utterly failed to challenge it.

                    Throwing out a random query to try to change the subject doesn’t alter that, Pete, and I’m still waiting for a serious response.

                    As for this latest little faux par of yours (awkward), what do you think RL’s comment meant?

                    Honestly. What do you really think it meant?

                  • mike e

                    pg good morning Vietnam petey boy your like the DJ no one likes who plays opposite Robin Williams.
                    lt Steven Hauk a pathetic grovelar who follows the propaganda line and has no soul played by the late Bruno Kirby.

              • Te Maori puthetic. /end

                always got to play the person not the ball eh pete – that just shows the truth of you – nowhere to hide pete, remember you admitted the truth – “I acknowledge I’m sometimes negative and sometimes stir.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13072012/comment-page-1/#comment-493086 that was a bit of it there wasn’t it pete – a game for you to get your jollies and those jollies must be hard to get because you appear to have a very stunted sense of humour.

        • felix 4.1.1.2

          “(Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)”

          The “explaining the bleeding obvious to fools” tag might be the go, judging by Pete’s reaction.

      • weka 4.1.2

        Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….
         

        Except where there has been legitimate sale by iwi. Anyone know if any rivers and lakes were sold? I’m assuming that water running through land that was sold was considered by Pakeha and the Crown to become owned by the person who bought the land or by the Crown, but that Maori may have seen this differently.

  5. prism 5

    We have metered water in Nelson, metered on volumes. The City Council charges for it. We put in expensive water filters as we were showing too much particulate matter or organisms or both and the treatment plant was expensive, and the filters are also and have to be replaced every 5-10 years. It cut down water use, which is a way of enforced saving, and forcing people to value stuff which costs money to collect and pipe to whatever points. The water collectors built in Africa for villages are a boon. Paying for ours should be kept within bounds but not expected to be free at point of use. General water rates don’t being usage home to individuals.

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    Labour | 12-11
  • Briefing reveals Defence facilities ‘increasingly unfit for purpose’
    The Defence Briefing to the Incoming Minister reveals a deteriorating state in Defence facilities that are no longer fit for purpose, says Labour’s Defence spokesperson Phil Goff.  “The briefing is heavily censored but still reveals that Defence camps, bases and...
    Labour | 12-11
  • New projections show New Zealand missing climate target
    Briefings to Incoming Ministers released today reveal the Government's climate policy is failing with projected emission more than double what is needed to meet National's 2050 target, the Green Party saidProjections released by the Ministry for the Environment, as part...
    Greens | 12-11
  • National’s highways far less efficient
    National’s new state highways have a far lower cost-benefit ratio than motorways built under the last Labour Government, making a mockery of the Government’s bluster that its road building will boost the economy, says Labour's Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford. “New...
    Labour | 12-11
  • Governor points finger at National on supply
    The Reserve Bank Governor has admitted he had to keep loan to value mortgage restrictions in place because the Government’s attempts to increase housing has fallen ‘a long way short’, says Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “The thousands of first...
    Labour | 12-11
  • Did Collins cover up Slater’s OIA requests?
    Disgraced former Cabinet Minister Judith Collins must explain why she appears to have tried to hide Official Information Act requests she fulfilled for Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater, Labour MP Megan Woods says. “New documents obtained by Labour show Judith...
    Labour | 11-11
  • Reserve Bank’s dairy warning must be heard
    The Reserve Bank’s warning that falling dairy prices are creating greater risks for the New Zealand economy must be taken seriously by Bill English and John Key, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker. “Dairy prices have nearly halved since February...
    Labour | 11-11
  • National’s housing failure keeps LVRs in place
    The Reserve Bank’s decision to leave loan-to-value ratio mortgage restrictions in place is further confirmation of National’s housing policy fiasco, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “The Reserve Bank would have lifted LVRs if they had seen any increase in...
    Labour | 11-11
  • Let’s see if it is plane sailing Mr Bridges
    Comments by Transport Minister Simon Bridges that Far North residents' anger over cutbacks to regional flights will be allayed by larger planes and cheaper fares out of Kerikeri, are just pure arrogance, says Labour’s Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis....
    Labour | 11-11
  • Commerce Commission inquiry needed into building supplies monopoly
    The Commerce Commission must stop dragging the chain and urgently investigate the anti-competitive practices in the building industry that are driving up the cost of building materials, says Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Competition in the building materials market is...
    Labour | 11-11
  • Air New Zealand grounds Far North
    The announcement by Air New Zealand to close services from Kaitaia to Auckland will be an absolute disaster for the Far North, Labour MP for Te Tai Tokerau Kelvin Davis says.  “Air New Zealand is sending a signal to the...
    Labour | 11-11
  • Pulling West Coast flights a savage blow
    Air New Zealand’s decision to withdraw its Westport service is another kick in the guts for an already struggling community, West Coast-Tasman MP, Damien O’Connor says.   “Having been involved in the West Coast’s efforts to get Air Nelson to return...
    Labour | 11-11
  • Air NZ cuts economic lifelines to neglected regions
    Air New Zealand’s plans to cut its Eagle Air regional services to already struggling regions is a hammer blow to Westport, Whakatane and Kaitaia, says Labour's Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford. “The regions of New Zealand are being abandoned by this...
    Labour | 11-11
  • Christchurch on the rent rack
    A jump of 20 per cent in weekly rents in the past year is a disaster for Christchurch, says Associate Housing spokesperson Poto Williams. “The Trade Me Property Rental Price index has rightly described the city as being a ‘...
    Labour | 11-11
  • Past time to act on warnings about palliative care
    Health officials have been warning the Government about a critical shortage of palliative care specialists for years, Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader and Health spokesperson Annette King says. A stocktake carried out for the Ministry of Health shows New Zealand’s end...
    Labour | 10-11
  • Report must spur Government into action
    The soaring cost of domestic violence and child abuse highlight the need for the Government to prioritise and act on the issue, says Labour's spokesperson for Social Development, Sue Moroney.“Findings from the Glenn Inquiry that show the problem is estimated...
    Labour | 10-11
  • Family safety paramount, then urgent review
    Corrections Minister Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga has some serious questions to answer over why a dangerous prison escapee, convicted of further crimes while in jail, managed to abscond while he was on approved temporary release, Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says.“Phillip...
    Labour | 09-11
  • LVRs a failed experiment from Bill English
    Loan to value mortgage restrictions are a failed experiment from Bill English to tame Auckland house prices, that have caused collateral damage to first home buyers and other regions, says Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “The possible end of LVR...
    Labour | 09-11
  • Govt books getting worse as economy slows
    National’s economic credibility is under serious scrutiny with its search for surplus becoming harder due to an economy far too reliant on the dairy industry, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker. “National promised New Zealanders would get into surplus by...
    Labour | 06-11
  • Kiwis in pain because of Government underfunding
    New research showing one in three people needing elective surgery are being denied publicly-funded operations shows the Government must properly fund the health sector, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. “For almost two years Labour has been warning about the...
    Labour | 06-11
  • National’s promised surplus looking doubtful
    Budget figures for the first quarter of the financial year released today by Treasury show the Government's goal of achieving a budget surplus is looking doubtful, the Green Party said today."National has staked its credibility on achieving a budget surplus...
    Greens | 06-11
  • Kevin Hague speaks on the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 3)
    I rise to give this speech on behalf of Denise Roche, who handles the gambling portfolio for the Green Party. This bill deals with class 4 gambling—pokies in pubs and clubs—and it is the result of changes that were suggested...
    Greens | 06-11
  • Kevin Hague speaks on the Health (Protection) Amendment Bill
    I would like to start off where the previous speaker left off, on the issue of balancing rights or balancing harms. All law is in some way a restriction of personal liberty. That is the point of law. When we...
    Greens | 06-11
  • Joyce backs away from yet another target
    Steven Joyce has backed away from two targets in two days, refusing to acknowledge that his Government has an unambitious aim to get unemployment down to 4 per cent in 11 years’ time, says Labour Associate Finance spokesperson David Clark....
    Labour | 06-11
  • Pacific peoples incomes and jobs falling under National
    The Minister of Pacific Peoples is attempting to bury the ugly facts of Pacific unemployment and income levels worsening since National took office in 2008, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson, Su’a William Sio. “If the Minister doesn’t acknowledge how bad...
    Labour | 06-11
  • The Block NZ doing a better job than Nick Smith
    Nick Smith should consider calling in producers of The Block NZ with participants in the TV series completing more houses in two seasons than the Government’s failed Special Housing Area policy, says Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “The Block NZ...
    Labour | 06-11
  • Meridian moves to kill competition from solar homes
    Big electricity companies are using their power to make it harder for families and businesses wanting to go solar and the National Government is doing nothing to help them, the Green Party said today. Meridian Energy announced today a 60-72...
    Greens | 06-11
  • Has John Key done all he could for Pike families?
    It will be forever on the conscience of John Key whether he did all he could to recover the remains of the 29 miners who died in Pike River, Labour’s MP for West Coast-Tasman Damien O’Connor says.  “The Prime Minister...
    Labour | 05-11
  • National further dashes hopes of new parents
    The National Government has once again shown its disdain for working parents by voting down proposals to extend paid parental leave, Labour MP Sue Moroney says.  “The Government vetoed an amended proposal that substantially reduced the cost of extending PPL...
    Labour | 05-11
  • Honouring the Ampatuan massacre victims as fight for justice goes on
    A grim reminder of the Maguindanao, or Ampatuan, massacre on 23 November 2014. Photo: DanRogayan A TOP Filipino investigative journalist will be speaking about the “worst attack” on journalists in history and her country’s culture of impunity in a keynote...
    The Daily Blog | 23-11
  • GUEST BLOG: Anjum Rahman – what are they afraid of: the erosion of democ...
    Today the Hamilton City Council has put on a big party to celebrate the 150th anniversary of European colonisation of the area.  There have been a series of events during the year to mark this event, including a civic ceremony. ...
    The Daily Blog | 22-11
  • #JohnKeyHistory
    John Key has done it again. This week our lovely Prime Minister has showed us how little he knows about the history of the country he is supposed to be running. Apparently “New Zealand was settled peacefully”. Was it really?...
    The Daily Blog | 22-11
  • G20 growth targets and growth model offer more problems than they solve
    At the recent G20 in Brisbane, member countries agreed to accelerate growth to an additional 2% on top of current trajectories. But ongoing public sector cuts, asset sales, and reducing workers’ rights indicate that at least part of the growth...
    The Daily Blog | 22-11
  • GUEST BLOG: Bill Courtney – Charter Schools: The Shroud of Secrecy Contin...
    The Ministry of Education yesterday released another batch of information relating to the five existing charter schools and the four new ones proposed for opening in 2015. As we have seen before, the release of such information, often requested under...
    The Daily Blog | 22-11
  • EXCLUSIVE: Campaign reflection, Laila Harré reaching out for radical minds
    Today I’ve announced that I will be stepping down from the Internet Party leadership in December. This will happen once options for the future have been developed for discussion and decision among members. My absolute focus in this election was...
    The Daily Blog | 21-11
  • The Ebola crisis, capitalism and the Cuban medical revolution
    “Ebola emerged nearly 40 years ago. Why are clinicians still empty-handed, with no vaccines and no cure? Because Ebola has been, historically, geographically confined to poor African nations. The R&D incentive is virtually non-existent. A profit-driven industry does not invest...
    The Daily Blog | 21-11
  • MEDIA WATCH: TVNZ Reveals Insane Deadlines For Māori and Pacific Island Pr...
    Last Tuesday, November 18th, TVNZ requested proposals from producers for the four Māori and Pacific Island programmes they will no longer be making in-house. Marae, Waka Huia, Fresh and Tagata Pasifika will keep their existing names, existing formats and existing...
    The Daily Blog | 21-11
  • The Daily Blog Breakfast Club Ep. 1
    TDB Video, Live from Verona Cafe on K-Rd, Auckland – a weekly current affairs show with TDB Editor Martyn Bradbury. This week’s panel: Chris Trotter & Selwyn Manning.The issues: 1 – What now for the New Labour leader? 2 –...
    The Daily Blog | 21-11
  • Performance-demonstration at Auckland’s High Court to demand justice for ...
    People outraged at the lack of justice in the so-called ‘Roast Busters’ case and 99% of other rape cases in this country are holding a visually powerful mass action at the Auckland High Court at 1 o’clock on Saturday. They...
    The Daily Blog | 21-11
  • IES vote may weaken defense of public education
    PPTA announced today that secondary teachers have voted to include the IES (Investing in Education Success) as a variation to their collective employment agreement with the government. At one level it’s an understandable decision by PPTA members because through engaging in a consultation...
    The Daily Blog | 21-11
  • NZ History lesson on Planet Key – the lies white people tell themselves
    John Key’s bizarre claims about our ‘peaceful history’ comes across like the apartheid history of South Africa where white people discovered Africa first… New Zealand ‘settled peacefully’ – PM New Zealand was “settled peacefully” by the British, the prime minister...
    The Daily Blog | 20-11
  • Universal Basic Income and Labour Policy
    On Radio New Zealand’s None-to-Noon on Wednesday (19 November), new Labour leader Andrew Little intimated that he would like to put Universal Basic Income (UBI) on his policy agenda (What policy changes will Andrew Little usher in?) Predictably Kathryn Ryan, despite being...
    The Daily Blog | 20-11
  • The New Notes : They Ain’t Mint
    Hulk Queen Angry. Hulk Queen smash.   Yesterday, the Reserve Bank announced its new designs for our banknotes. Now, I’ve historically been pretty sketch about this entire process; variously feeling affronted that the government could find eighty million dollars to fund a...
    The Daily Blog | 20-11
  • MSM under-mining of new Labour Leader already begun?
    . . It did not take long. In fact, on the same day that Andrew Little won the Labour leadership*, the first media reporter was already asking if he would be stepping down  if Labour failed to lift in the...
    The Daily Blog | 20-11
  • GUEST BLOG: Simon Buckingham – invisible disability voices
    Today I am ranting. The Disability Advisory Group has been announced by Auckland Council. This is the body that represents the interests and views of people with disabilities in Auckland. Whilst I would not have applied this time as I...
    The Daily Blog | 20-11
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, Andrew Little
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, Andrew Little...
    The Daily Blog | 20-11
  • Why labelling Little as a ‘Unionist’ is a joke and how he beats Key in ...
    The line being used to attack Andrew Little as a ‘Unionist’ is just an absurd joke, and it comes from people who clearly don’t understand the modern NZ Union movement. Andrew ran the EPM Bloody U, they are easily one...
    The Daily Blog | 19-11
  • 5AA Australia – Labour’s New Leader + China’s President In New Zealan...
    Recorded on 20/11/14 – Captured Live on Ustream.tv. 5AA’s Peter Godfrey and Selwyn Manning.ISSUE ONE: The New Zealand Labour Party has elected its new leader, the vote going to a third round after no clear outright winner was found in...
    The Daily Blog | 19-11
  • Did Roger Sutton think he was running the Rock Radio Station?
    Visible G-String Fridays? Full body hugs? Jokes about who you would and wouldn’t have sex with? Honey? Sweety? It’s like Roger thought he was running the Rock Radio Station, not a Government Public Service department set up to rebuild a...
    The Daily Blog | 19-11
  • US Politics
      US Politics...
    The Daily Blog | 19-11
  • Amnesty International – The conversation that needs to be had with China
    Caption: Police officer watching Hong Kong pro-democracy march, 01 July 2014 © Amnesty International    Yesterday’s edition of The New Zealand Herald features an open letter to all New Zealander’s from Xi Jinping, President of the People’s Republic of China. Along...
    The Daily Blog | 19-11
  • GUEST BLOG: Patrick O’Dea – “Liar”
    LIAR! ‘Privatised social housing to benefit tenants’ English “Housing Corp was a poor performer and about a third of its housing stock was the wrong size, in poor condition and in the wrong place. That stock was worth about $5...
    The Daily Blog | 19-11
  • Too Close For Comfort: Reflections on Andrew Little’s narrow victory over...
    THE TRAGIC SCREENSHOT of “Gracinda” in defeat bears eloquent testimony to the bitter disappointment of the Grant Robertson-led faction of the Labour Party. And, yes, ‘Party’ is the right word. The Robertson machine has now extended its influence well beyond...
    The Daily Blog | 19-11
  • How to defeat child poverty
      How to defeat child poverty...
    The Daily Blog | 18-11
  • Little’s Shadow Cabinet
    Now the horror of trying to pacify the factions begins. The only thing Little’s new shadow cabinet must do is create the pretence of unity. The reason voters didn’t flock to Labour wasn’t the bloody CGT or Superannuation, it was...
    The Daily Blog | 18-11
  • A pilgrimage with my sister – Rethink the System
    We’ve both wanted to do a pilgrimage for many years. But, unlike many modern pilgrims, we wanted to be pilgirms in our own country and get closer to our communities, rather than seek greater distance from them. We are both...
    The Daily Blog | 18-11
  • Lack of policy ambition is Andrew Little’s main problem
    I’ve met Andrew Little a few times and he’s a pleasant man who will make a reasonable job leading what the Labour Party has become in recent decades. He will preside over a much less divided caucus and will be...
    The Daily Blog | 18-11
  • Journos, film makers, media freedom advocates join Asia-Pacific political j...
    A candlelight vigil for the 58 victims of the 2009 Maguindanao massacre – 32 of them media people. Still no justice for them today. Renowned investigative journalists, film makers, academics and media freedom campaigners from across the Asia-Pacific region will...
    The Daily Blog | 18-11
  • And the new Labour Leader is ZZZZZZZZZZ
    The victory lap by Caucus over the members choice of Cunliffe has ended and the new leader of the Labour Party is Andrew Little. Yawn. The dullness and caution of the latest Leadership race will be served well by Andrew,...
    The Daily Blog | 18-11
  • Allow the Facts to Get in the Way of the Neolib Stories
    One of the weaknesses of the political left in New Zealand over the last 30 years has been to allow the neoliberal storytellers to get away with lots of fibs and half-fibs. On TVNZ’s Q+A on 16 November, in a...
    The Daily Blog | 17-11
  • Defending The Boomers: A Response to Chloe King
    THE BABY-BOOM GENERATION (49-68 year-olds) currently numbers just under a quarter of New Zealand’s population. Even so, there is a pervasive notion that the generation of New Zealanders born between the end of World War II and the mid-1960s exercises...
    The Daily Blog | 17-11
  • This weeks Waatea news column – Waitangi Tribunal ruling enshrines Treaty...
      This weeks Waatea news column – Waitangi Tribunal ruling enshrines Treaty as a living document...
    The Daily Blog | 16-11
  • Key now says SAS will be needed to protect ‘trainers’ behind the wire
    Well, well, well. What do we have here? Government could send SAS to Iraq New Zealand’s elite Special Air Service (SAS) could be deployed to Iraq to protect Kiwi troops sent to train local forces. Prime Minister John Key confirmed...
    The Daily Blog | 16-11
  • Do You Want to Build a Meth Lab? (Frozen x Breaking Bad Parody)
    Do You Want to Build a Meth Lab? (Frozen x Breaking Bad Parody)...
    The Daily Blog | 16-11
  • Soft soap for the rich – harsh taxes for the poor
    It’s no surprise to see New Zealand has one of the world’s lowest tax rates for the rich and the superrich. A survey by the global accounting network UHY shows New Zealand’s highest tax rates are lower than even Australia,...
    The Daily Blog | 16-11
  • Phillip Smith and the rehabilitation process
    The dominant media narrative in horrible murder cases is that the perpetrator is unlikely ever to be rehabilitated. When it appears the offender may get parole the media turns first to family members of the victim who commonly (and understandably)...
    The Daily Blog | 16-11
  • The Nation review: Finlayson’s terrifying definition of who is on terror ...
    Terrifying Nation today on TV3. Chris Finlayson is on justifying the Government’s Muslim fear mongering and extension of even more surveillance powers. It was jaw dropping. Finlayson says ‘alienated people with a chip on their shoulder’ is the threshold to get...
    The Daily Blog | 14-11
  • A brief word on The Block NZ
    Is it just me or did The Block manage to sum up everything that is wrong about our culture and economy? Fetishised property speculation as mass entertainment in a country of homelessness & poverty. I wonder if State House tenants...
    The Daily Blog | 14-11
  • Waitangi Tribunal ruling
    That spluttering choking sound of a thousand rednecks being informed Maori still have sovereignty is a hilarious cacophony of stupid… Crown still in charge: Minister Chris Finlayson on Waitangi Treaty ruling The Waitangi Tribunal’s finding that Maori chiefs who signed...
    The Daily Blog | 14-11
  • A brief word on Phillip Smith
    We can arrest student loan & fine defaulters at the airport – but not convicted child molesting killers? Before we ban manufactured ISIS ‘terrorists’ from having passports, how about we just manage to stop child molesting killers from fleeing first?...
    The Daily Blog | 14-11
  • Free Me From Religion
          The meeting begins – or at least it’s supposed to begin – but someone interrupts proceedings. She wants everyone to pray with their heads bowed while she can “thank our Father who art in Heaven.” I close...
    The Daily Blog | 14-11
  • Key capitulates on TPPA while big money NZ set up propaganda fund
    So Key has capitulated on the ‘gold standard’ of free trade deals… The primary objective for New Zealand at Apec was to see some urgency injected into the TPP talks and to keep leaders aiming for a high quality deal....
    The Daily Blog | 13-11
  • Why Phillip Smith is the least of our worries
    Well, it turns out Phillip Smith wasn’t half as clever as he thought he was, and he’s been arrested within a week. If the Prime Minister is through with making tasteless jokes, perhaps we can ramp down the media hysteria...
    The Daily Blog | 13-11
  • Constraining Credibility
      Most economists and members of the public – on both the right and the left – believe that economies are constrained by resource scarcity most of the time. In this view, economies are supply-constrained, and that the economic problem...
    The Daily Blog | 13-11
  • Migrant Labour, exploitation and free markets
    Once more we read about a horror story of virtual slavery for a migrant worker in a restaurant in Christchurch. The silver lining that in this case compensation should be paid is not assured. Often in situations like this the employer winds up...
    The Daily Blog | 13-11
  • On baby boomers who give my generation unhelpful advice: JUST DON’T
    One of my mum’s colleagues recently told her that there is no money in what her daughter was doing; volunteering at a women’s refuge and writing on politics. This guy, dispensing all his pearls of wisdom, told my mother that...
    The Daily Blog | 13-11
  • Morbid Symptoms: Can Labour Be Born Anew?
    THE CHAIRS in the final meeting venue have been stacked away. All that expensive signage, commissioned for the benefit of the television cameras, no longer has a purpose. For the second time in just 14 months, Labour’s Leadership Contest is...
    The Daily Blog | 12-11
  • What’s Small, White, and Having Trouble Attracting New People?
    If your answer was something intimately connected to the person of Peter Dunne … then you’d be right. Last night, P-Dunney decided to bring his comedy and/or hair stylings to the twitterverse; penning a potentially somewhat ill-advised tweet in which he compared...
    The Daily Blog | 12-11
  • LATE at the Auckland Museum review – Slacktivisim: Its not just for Slack...
    Monday night is my yoga night. I’m not really very good it, I don’t really have the bendy, but I made a New Years resolution. This Monday however, I decided to put the yoga on prone and attend a gig...
    The Daily Blog | 12-11
  • Domestic violence problem bigger than Sky Tower
    Domestic violence problem bigger than Sky Tower SKYCITY’s Sky Tower in Auckland will be lit up in white on Monday evening Nov 25th at 10pm, on the eve of White Ribbon Day. The anti-domestic violence network SAFTINET (Safer Auckland Families...
    Scoop politics | 23-11
  • State Services Commissioner ‘unfit for the job’ says Little
    State Services Commissioner ‘unfit for the job’ says Little The new Labour leader Andrew Little has called for the State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie to be stood down after his handling of the Roger Sutton sexual harassment case. "The idea...
    Scoop politics | 23-11
  • Patrick Gower interviews Laila Harre
    Patrick Gower interviews Laila Harre Headlines: Laila Harre to quit as Internet Party leader by Christmas when the party has completed its review, but would love to return to parliament Says party considering options for its future including winding...
    Scoop politics | 22-11
  • Lisa Owen interviews Labour leader Andrew Little
    Lisa Owen interviews Labour leader Andrew Little Headlines: Andrew Little says the shape of his front-bench for the 2017 election may not be clear until the end of next year Indicates next week’s appointments may be temporary: “So I may...
    Scoop politics | 22-11
  • Phillip John Smith – statement
    Police and the New Zealand Embassy in Brasilia are aware of a decision from the Brazil Federal Court requiring the deportation of Phillip Smith within 10 days. Further assessment is required to ensure there is a full understanding of this...
    Scoop politics | 22-11
  • Green’s ‘not speaking out about human rights abuses in China
    Right to Life challenges Russell Norman the co-leader of the Green Party to explain why, he was prepared to ask Prime Minister John Key to talk to Chinese President Xi Jinping about human rights abuses in countries bordering China but...
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • Goodfellow congratulates Key on IDU election
    Goodfellow congratulates Key on IDU election National Party President Peter Goodfellow has congratulated Prime Minister John Key on his election today as Chairman of the International Democrat Union (IDU)....
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • Taxpayers’ Union Congratulates PM on IDU Appointment
    The Taxpayers’ Union is today congratulating Rt. Hon. John Key on becoming the Chair of the International Democrat Union , as former Australian Prime Minister John Howard retires from the role after 12 years. Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director...
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • High demand for Consumer NZ’s “Do Not Knock” stickers
    Consumer NZ has distributed nearly 100,000 “Do Not Knock” stickers since the launch of its campaign to fight back against dodgy door-to-door sellers.The “Do Not Knock” campaign was launched on 3 November 2014. Free “Do Not Knock” stickers...
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • Phillip Smith decision still pending
    Detective Superintendent Mike Pannett is returning to Washington DC where he will continue to closely monitor a pending decision from the Brazilian authorities on the process to return Phillip Smith to New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • High Court demonstration to demand justice
    People outraged at the lack of justice in the so-called ‘Roast Busters’ case and 99% of other rape cases in this country are holding a visually powerful mass action at the Auckland High Court at 1 o’clock on Saturday. They...
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • NZ Society Wins Global Award For Fighting Animal Testing
    New Zealand banning animal testing of legal highs has been acknowledged with an award given in London. The New Zealand Anti-Vivisection Society (NZAVS) was awarded the 2014 LUSH Prize for lobbying against animal testing. The prize was given at the...
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • Poor govt advice to workers on petrol station drive-offs
    The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions has raised concerns with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment ('MBIE') regarding their reported advice to workers about the petrol station drive away issue....
    Scoop politics | 21-11
  • New Ombudsman opinion
    The Ombudsman has published his opinion on a complaint concerning the Police refusal to release information about a charging decision....
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • Kindergarten support staff achieve pay rise in tough climate
    The valuable contribution of kindergarten support staff has been recognised with a pay increase, despite the significant funding cuts that the kindergarten associations are experiencing....
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • Democracy and Conservative Religion: The Case of Islam
    “Is Islam compatible with democracy?” is a frequently-asked question. Recent rethinking of secularism and democracy have opened up new possibilities to think about religion and democracy. This question is important particularly in the case...
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • NZ fiscal watchdog needed to guard the public purse
    New Zealand needs tighter fiscal rules and an independent watchdog to improve the quality of government spending and reduce the risk of a return to deficit spending as the country’s population ages, if not before....
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • NZSMI disappointed ANZTPA proposal shelved
    November 20, 2014: Consumer healthcare products industry body, the New Zealand Self-Medication Industry Association (SMI) says it is disappointed Government has once again shelved plans to create one medicines regulatory agency for both New Zealand and Australia....
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • Democracy Action Welcomes Tauranga Vote
    Responding to Tauranga Council’s unanimous vote not to establish separate Council seats on the basis of ethnicity, Lee Short, Democracy Action founder says: “The establishment of a Maori ward would have damaged the relationship between Maori and...
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • Employer caught abusing new ‘teabreaks law’
    Employer caught abusing new ‘teabreaks law’ to exploit workers The government passed the controversial ‘teabreaks’ legislation only a few weeks ago and already Unite Union has caught an employer using this law as an excuse for ill-treating their...
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • FGC response to Commerce Commission report
    The New Zealand Food & Grocery Council is not surprised by the Commerce Commission’s findings, given New Zealand’s current legal framework....
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • Bascand: Brighter Money
    Seeing people’s initial reactions to the new banknote designs is a heartening reminder of what an important role currency plays in our lives, and what a sense of pride and heritage our notes evoke....
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • RBNZ releases Brighter Money designs
    New Zealand’s banknotes are getting brighter and better, with the Reserve Bank today unveiling more vibrant and secure banknote designs which will progressively enter circulation later next year....
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • 25 years of children’s rights
    UNICEF and OFC celebrate 25 years of children’s rights with Just Play Sports Days On Universal Children’s Day (20 November) and as part of the Oceania Football Confederation’s (OFC) inaugural President’s Cup, UNICEF will celebrate 25 years of children’s...
    Scoop politics | 20-11
  • Xiamen delegation to Wellington has business focus
    Stronger business, education and cultural ties with our Chinese partners will be the focus when a 20-strong government and business delegation led by Xiamen Mayor Mr Liu Keqing which visits Wellington tomorrow (Friday) and Saturday as part of the...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Warriors promote White Ribbon Day message
    Warriors promote White Ribbon Day message Shine and Orakei Health Services On Tuesday, the Vodafone Warriors will promote the White Ribbon Day message to the community at Eastridge Shopping Centre, Mission Bay. The Warriors are supporting their charity...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Superannuitants to protest unethical investments
    A delegation of Auckland superannuitants will deliver a protest-card petition and protest letter to the New Zealand Super Fund this Thursday afternoon to call on the fund to divest from companies which support the Israeli occupation of Palestinian...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Manukau job cuts ‘running the place into the ground’
    Manukau Institute of Technology (MIT) confirmed to its staff yesterday that 54 jobs will go before Christmas....
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Newcore Looks Pretty Rotten for Ratepayers
    Responding to the NZ Herald report that the IT system commissioned by Auckland Council to consolidate the eight systems the Super City inherited from its precursor councils could be facing a budget blowout of $100 million, Taxpayers’ Union Spokesman Ben...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Accountability following quake response inquiry not achieved
    Lessons still need to be learned from the search and rescue efforts following the February 2011 earthquake in Christchurch, a leading New Zealand lawyer, Nigel Hampton QC, says....
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Our kids say: We are failing in our duty to protect them
    Our kids say: We are failing in our duty to protect them More than a quarter of Kiwi kids say children’s right to be safe and protected isn’t being upheld in New Zealand, identifying protection from violence, abuse and murder...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • PARS & Turuki Health Care collaborate on health and services
    Auckland-based PARS (People at Risk Solutions) have partnered with the Turuki Health Care Trust, to offer improved healthcare services to those in need. PARS works closely with former prisoners, providing mentoring, housing, and social services to ensure...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Children’s Plea
    A plea has been sent to all Members of Parliament, regardless of party affiliation, to accord urgency and priority to children's issues. These issues include vulnerability, safety and childhood poverty....
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Treasury off track in search for sound policies
    Treasury is unlikely to find the ideas it is looking for to improve outcomes for children while its primary driver is cost-cutting, says Child Poverty Action Group....
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Commission calls for answers on handling of CERA harassment
    EEO Commissioner Dr Jackie Blue is deeply concerned about the way in which the State Services Commission has handled sexual allegations made against CERA chief executive Roger Sutton this week and is calling for answers....
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Ashley Dwayne Guy v The Queen: Appeal Upheld
    The appellant, Mr Guy, was found guilty by a jury of a charge of sexual violation by unlawful sexual connection. After the verdict it was discovered that, by error, the jury had been provided in the jury room with two...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • Zonta Club to Take a Stand Against Gender-Based Violence
    During the 16 Days of Activism against Gender Violence (25 November – 10 December), the Zonta Club of Wellington, along with members of the local community, will join nearly 1,200 Zonta clubs in 67 countries for the Zonta Says NO...
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • New UNFPA report links progress and power to young people
    A UN report launched today calls for investment in young people as they are essential to social and economic progress....
    Scoop politics | 19-11
  • The Resignation with the Golden Handshake?
    Commenting on the settlement the State Services Commission has reached with former CERA CEO Roger Sutton, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director, Jordan Williams, says: "Only in the public sector do you receive a payout for ‘resigning’....
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • NZ must not turn a blind eye to China’s human rights record
    Amnesty International is calling on New Zealand’s Prime Minister John Key to raise China’s shameful human rights record during President Xi Jinping’s visit to New Zealand this week....
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • The Resignation with the Golden Handshake?
    Commenting on the settlement the State Services Commission has reached with former CERA CEO Roger Sutton, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director, Jordan Williams, says:...
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • Treasury’s covert & extremely odd welfare consultation
    A report this morning that Treasury is ‘crowd sourcing’ ideas on welfare policy is news to Auckland Action Against Poverty, even though we are currently one of the most active groups in the area....
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • NZ invites Pacific peers to review development cooperation
    New Zealand has volunteered to be the first development partner in the Pacific region to undergo a review of its aid programme by Pacific island peers. The review will focus on New Zealand’s development cooperation and will give greater insight...
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • EPMU joins Pike River families to mark fourth anniversary
    Representatives of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union are proud to stand with the Pike River families to mark four years since 29 men lost their lives. “This is a particularly solemn day given the recent announcements of Solid Energy...
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • 2013 Assessment of New Zealand’s National Integrity Systems
    SPEAKER TUILOMA NERONI SLADE: Former Judge, International Criminal Court in the Hague, former legal counsel at the Commonwealth Secretariat, Secretary-General of the Pacific Islands Forum 2008-2014. Introduced by Helen Sutch, Victoria University Council,...
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • Green Party ignoring Waimea’s environmental benefits
    Green Party MP Catherine Delahunty has overlooked the environmental benefits the proposed Waimea Community Dam will bring the Tasman community, says IrrigationNZ Chairperson Nicky Hyslop....
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • Women’s use of violence in violent relationships
    More than 80 percent of women who live with a physically violent partner will not initiate violence when they are not being hit, according to new research....
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • Poor credit rating linked to poor cardiovascular health
    Poor credit rating linked to poor cardiovascular health A credit score doesn’t only boil down a person’s entire financial history to a single number and somehow predict their credit-worthiness, it might also be saying something about a person’s...
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • State Services Commissioner on Roger Sutton Investigation
    State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie today said the investigation into Roger Sutton’s conduct was robust. Roger Sutton chose to resign as Chief Executive of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority (CERA) yesterday....
    Scoop politics | 18-11
  • Predator Free NZ project welcomed
    Federated Farmers and the conservation organisation Forest & Bird are welcoming the Predator Free New Zealand initiative as an ambitious but achievable project that will have real benefits for conservation and the economy....
    Scoop politics | 18-11
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