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Water ownership – first principles

Written By: - Date published: 3:35 pm, July 14th, 2012 - 103 comments
Categories: treaty settlements, water - Tags:

When you have the legal power to control aspects of how something is used, those are property rights, and when you have the legal power to exclude use of something by someone -for instance, by allocating exclusive usage rights to someone else – that’s ownership. The Crown allocates water rights, ipso facto, the Crown believes it owns the water.

If someone, the Crown, has the power to allocate the right to use water then that person, the Crown, must be asserting that it gets to decide what happens with the water – who uses it and how and who doesn’t – ie, that it owns it.

Iwi disagree. And that’s simply an evidential matter. It’s not a matter of whether the water can be owned or not, because clearly it can.

To say you can’t own water but you can own land is soft-headed mysticism. Just because something’s a liquid or a gas doesn’t mean it can’t be owned but the land can be because it’s solid. Otherwise, I must be free to drink at will from all those bottles of water in the dairy.

103 comments on “Water ownership – first principles”

  1. Ad 1

    Yes it’s odd to have a National Prime Minister having an anarcho-syndicalist moment. But for argument’s sake let me defend him.

    Theoretically anyone can have a rainwater tank and collected free water, and treat is afterwards. As rain water it’s a free public good.

    In practice the pipe network capex and maintenance, storage and treatment of both wastewater and fresh water all need to be paid for. One pays water companies for all the services and treatment and convenience of supply about that water, rather than paying for raw rainwater itself.

    I think this extends to hydro generation as well. Water facilities were usually formed as public works, and we pay for the added value that the facilities provide.

    Consumers should pay for what consumers take. And that price should be paid to those who have assets that add value to that water, whether that is for potable reticulated water, industrial uses, irrigation, or generation.

    Water belongs to the earth. Those who add value to it, and those who pollute it, should pay those who bring it to us in the state we want it.

    To me what is missing is a water price regulator, in which those who charge for water use in all its forms are required to prove how they came to that price. Just like airports have to prove to airlines the level of airport landing charges, or the Electricity Commission makes sure Transpower is charging the right amount for transmitting bulk electricity. Particularly because in practice water providers are monopolies.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 1.1

      Nah, you’re buying into an ethnocentric approach. Monetary value isn’t the only measure of intrinsic worth.

      • weka 1.1.1

        +1

      • OneTrack 1.1.2

        So why do Maori want money for it? It sounds like Maori share the “ethnocentric” view that things only have monetary value.

        • felix 1.1.2.1

          You might have noticed that maori haven’t actually wanted money for it so far.

          Why do you think that might be?

    • weka 1.2

      “Theoretically anyone can have a rainwater tank and collected free water, and treat is afterwards. As rain water it’s a free public good.”

      For now. There are places in the US where it is illegal to collect rainwater, or they limit how much you are allowed to collect (not enough to live on). This is where we are headed when we treat water and land as commodities. The main difference between the US and NZ is that they’re a bit further down the path of turning their island into a desert than us.

      • OneTrack 1.2.1

        And Maori are helping to turn water into just another commodity by asserting their ownership of it.

        • mike e 1.2.1.1

          OT Europeans taught Maori the value of Money.
          Now Maori are making money after Europeans took just about all their lands by what we call insider trading practices.
          I smell the racial politics of envy!

          • Populuxe1 1.2.1.1.1

            Well you would, because you’re a nutter. Except that we’re talking about state owned assets and Maori have all the same rights as any other New Zealand citizen. individual Iwi taking ownership also deprives other Maori of benefit, not just we evil demonic Europeans. Nor do two wrongs make a right – I fail to see why what the crimes and misdemeanors some historical personage whose only connection to me is complexion and language spoken, should be visited upon me – thanks very much. I imagine if a similar claim somehow directly affected you, you might consider things somewhat differently.
             

            • xtasy 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Populuxe1: What exactly are you on about, and what are you trying to prove or disprove? I am lost about your rant.

              • Populuxe1

                Oh I just get bored whenever someone shrieks “racism” in an argument as if it actually proves anything without being justified – especially when it’s historical racism.
                Especially as in this case Maori as a whole will not benefit and in fact will suffer if significant control of resources are given over to individual Iwi.
                Sorry you have a reading disability.

                • xtasy

                  I have NO reading disability and clearly detect your racist slant now.

                  so I have no issues with Maori and the Council or iwi, as long as they are merely seeking a clarification of the law, which is what this is so far all about. You apparently are one trying to dig out issues and edges to create arguments for argument’s sake. That is not what I am interested in. so I suggest you just go to Kiwi Blog or elsewhere, where Farrar Fartarse and such cater for your simple minded nonsense.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Well no – jumping up on a chair, pointing at me and shrieking “racist” is fairly typical of someone who fears debate. Nor does expressing concern of at the possible outcome of something necessarily make one racist just because one of the parties is ethnically grouped.
                    If the law is classified, what then? That’s the gist of it. What does it mean for the country as a whole and all the people in it?
                    “Digging out issues” – well yes, that’s what people who are engaged with the world in any sort of considered way generally do.
                    And given that my concern over the ownership of state assets is driven by socialist concerns, trying to paint me right wing is just stupid and nasty. So you don’t like my style – hack away to your heart’s content – I don’t care. One of the things I like about the Standard is it’s diversity even if I’m not always tolerant of other people’s viewpoints. So you are entitled to attack mine, but do so with logic and reason, not hysterical accusations and attempts to shame me.

                    • xtasy

                      I do not mind debating with people who have an honest intention to debate and actually do want to discuss true, relevant subject matter.

                      That is what I miss in your bizarre comments, so, sorry, I will not bother answering to that. Trying to suddenly turn into pretended willingness to “debate”, while still ridiculing the importance of having the law interpreted correctly, objectively and fairly, that is proving you are not that serious about it all.

            • mike e 1.2.1.1.1.2

              populuxe it only took us Irish 400 years to get ours back and I’m not complaining.
              Maori started legal action against unfair land dealing and confiscation in the 1870′s with the help of the church.Because the church saw Maori were being denied their rights as British citizens .

            • mike e 1.2.1.1.1.3

              pop If you checked out your tribal history and genealogy you might find you do own
              some inheritance.
              I don’t see any Pakeha turning down inheritances.
              Maybe its a self esteem thing with you , most likely your abusive rant suggests so!

              • Populuxe1

                I didn’t inherit a monopoly on being abusive on this site, so there must be quite a lot of self-esteem thing going around.
                And equating a small inheritance with claiming the national water supply by right of ancestral ownership are not the same things at all. However wills can be legally disputed – so let’s see what happens.
                 

        • weka 1.2.1.2

          No, it’s Pakeha that force Maori into Western models of ownership and commodification of nature.
          It looks to me that while Maori might prefer to address Treaty claims from within the framework of their own world views (and their ideas of ‘ownership’ are quite different from Pakeha), they might not be granted that right by NZ legal and political processes. In that case, where they are forced to play the Pakeha game, why should they not get some income or recompense as Pakeha would in the same situation?
           
           

          • QoT 1.2.1.2.1

            where they are forced to play the Pakeha game, why should they not get some income or recompense as Pakeha would in the same situation?

            BOOM!

            People seriously need to stop with the “but now we’ve forced Maori to work within our system, how DARE they do things in line with our system instead of their own culture/traditions/worldview which we’ve determinedly stripped from them???”

            • Populuxe1 1.2.1.2.1.1

              How DARE people continue to use expressions and language that might possibly have some sort of vaguely sexist baggage attached to them in the distant past now that feminism has begun routing the patriarchy?

              • QoT

                I’m sorry, was that meant to be relevant to my comment, or are you rehashing some drama which I’ve clearly completely forgotten about? If the former, you’re going to need to elaborate. If the latter … WTF?

                • Populuxe1

                  Cultural relativism, QoT – the limits of telling other people what to do. You would, I assume, be intolerant of the treatment of women in any number of tribal cultures around the world?

                  • QoT

                    Sorry, Populuxe, your comments have set off my “trying to pointlessly pick a fight over something irrelevant to the discussion at hand, mainly to troll my feminist views” alarm. Better luck next time!

                  • Populuxe1

                    Come on QoT – one would assume you’re against genital mutilation, “honour” killings and being treated as chattels. You want to stop that don’t you? In which case how would that not be stripping people “of their own culture/traditions/worldview”? And in any case Iwi wouldn’t be doing “things in line with our system”, because “our system” doesn’t quite understand what Rangatiratanga means.

                    • xtasy

                      Rangatira and so forth is what you HATE, so you like to ridicule the other party to an agreement to what we have in NZ. If you totally reject that treaty, then that means nothing else but declare WAR agains a resident and native people in this country. So that exposes where you come from. Come on, call the game, take it on, take it all the way, we will deal to it, appropriately.

                      Is it not one of those consequences mentioned? Does JK not laugh about it (race war) ? Well, come on, bring it on, mate!

                    • bad12

                      Here dickwad, this is what those,(Pakeha), who drafted the Treaty of Waitangi took Rangatiratanga to mean,

                      Remember it was not Maori who wrote either version of the Treaty of Waitangi, it was Pakeha,

                      Treaty of Waitangi,

                      Article Two,

                      Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand, and to the respective families and individuals thereof, THE FULL, EXCLUSIVE, AND UNDISTURBED POSSESSION OF THEIR LANDS, FISHERIES, AND OTHER PROPERTIES WHICH THEY MAY COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY POSSESS, SO LONG AS IT IS THEIR WISH AND DESIRE TO RETAIN THE SAME IN THEIR POSSESSION, but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of pre-emption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate, at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf,

                      There is nothing ambiguous in the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi and as the Maori version was written by the very same people who wrote the English version then the above article two of the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi is in fact the literal translation of what the Crown intended via use of the word Rangatiratanga in the Maori version of the Treaty,

                      There is no ambiguity in the English version, at the same time as they wrote the English version those writing it also wrote what THEY saw as the Maori translation of what their intentions where in the English version,

                      Even to an obvious simpleton like you, ESTATES and OTHER PROPERTIES would cover possession of both Lakes and Rivers and possession= ownership…

                    • Populuxe1

                      Well xtasy, “Hate” is a very strong word, but yes, I suppose I do if Rangatiratanga is to be interpreted as “legal title to state assets” because I am a socialist and socialists are generally against privatisation of state assets. And anyway now you’re beginning to sound hysterical.
                      Bad, time and again it has been pointed out that the English and Maori versions of the Treaty are different, and that Rangatiratanga and Kaitiakitanga are not concepts that translate easily into English much as Ownership has no direct Maori equivalent. This has never been adequately sorted out, and yes, the Crown dicked Maori – I’m not disputing that – I am however disputing that indigenaity should supercede citizenship in this matter.
                      The meaning of Rangatiratanga and Kaitiakitanga in twnety-first century New Zealand is a serious issue that needs discussion, and it shouldn’t be used to deliver further traction to privatisation which is what is happening here.

                    • Hi Populuxe1,

                      I’m finding it a bit hard to follow your response to Q0T.

                      Are you suggesting that a culture/tradition/worldview that involves a people occupying land and making use of it to live, have children and continue their community is so foreign to Pakeha culture that it is akin to ‘genital mutilation’ and hence something that it was right and proper for Pakeha to do away with and prevent Maori continuing with? 

                      If so, that might explain a lot about the Pakeha worldview … 

                    • Populuxe1

                      Yeah, Puddleglum, not my best work. I regret it now – it was cheap and ungraceful. Sorry QoT genuinely meant – the inner troll got away on me.
                      I was comparing apples and pears to draw QoT’s attention to the fact that they’re both in the same fruit bowl and it was a little hypocritical to take one position while not acknowledging the corollary.

                    • Appreciate your honesty.

          • Populuxe1 1.2.1.2.2

            One might argue that Pakeha are forced to play the Pakeha game by the global politico-economic system. Ethical or not, there are limits to ho much traditional and tribal worldviews can be accommodated within the system – not out of choice necessarily, but by sheer global pressure.

            • xtasy 1.2.1.2.2.1

              The problem is that so called “pakeha” are nearing extinction, given low birth rates, due to materialism, selfishness, and dislike for pro-creation being so predominant amongst them now. So do not blame others for your choices, aye?!

              And what about ‘pakeha’ Russians and some other Eastern Europeans, holding records in wife and girl friend beatings in Europe?

              • Populuxe1

                What are you smoking, xstacy?
                Given Pakeha is usually defined as New Zealanders not of Maori descent and usually of European descent, I’m not sure WTF you’re on about. Russians? Put down the P pipe.
                Nor is there any evidence that family planning is making people who might be loosely described by the archaic term “caucasian” extinct. Or do I detect the sulpherous whiff of homophobia in your little rant?
                 

                • xtasy

                  you arr\e ignorant, I am afraid. You went on about “Pakeha forced to play a certain game” due to global pressures and even referred to “tribal worldviews”. So for fucks sake, what is one supposed to understand of that kind of language.

                  You are a highly manipulated hate preacher, and you have no place on this site, as you have not delivered any constructive, objective and contributing comments at all. It is all just an attack from the low slanted side.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Um, yes xtasy “tribal worldviews” is perfectly acceptable sociological talk to describe certain kinds of traditional culture that exist in contrast to “internationalism” or “modernism” or whatever you want to call it.
                    Global pressures = international law, trade, geopolitics, globalisation, founded in certain assumptions and practices. I’m not saying it’s good, but it exists.
                    I can’t be all that “highly manipulative” if someone who can’t tell the difference between Russians and Pakeha can apparently detect it – except I’m not. I am, however, putting forth a perspective and defending it, with some trolling on the side just because I’m contrary.

            • Puddleglum 1.2.1.2.2.2

              One might argue that Pakeha are forced to play the Pakeha game by the global politico-economic system

              That’s an interesting argument. If this argument is correct, I presume you would support efforts to change such a system that coerces ‘even’ Pakeha to play a game they do not wish to play?

              • Populuxe1

                Yes I would, Puddleglum. I fear globalisation – it homogenises everything like McDonalds no matter how clean the toilets are. Elements of it are reassuring though.
                I think glocalisation is possibly a good compromise as it still allows for diversity of cultural expression, and I’m all for cultural expression – I’m just leery of any cultural expression that suggests control over the commonweal.
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glocalisation

                • That’s good to know and I see where you’re coming from with the reference to glocalisation.

                  I’m a bit old-fashioned so, to me, a ‘culture’ is not something that is ‘expressed’ – it’s something that people live by, materially, socially, economically, psychologically. In order to live a culture it requires, therefore, control over the resources and forces necessary to maintain it.

                  ‘Expressing’ a culture sounds a bit like consumers ‘expressing’ their unique, individual identities via consumer goods. (Did you ever see the BBC documentary ‘Century of the Self’? If so, you’ll get the parallel I’m drawing.)

                  I’ve always thought that glocalisation is basically a case of ‘you can be anything you like, so long as you participate in the global market economy’. Personally, I’m not sure that provides many choices at the cultural level.

                  Though, of course, the Irish can have their Irish bars and drink Guinness, the Japanese can have their Sushi stalls and the French – as I discovered on a visit to Paris in 1990 – can have their fromage bleu dressing on a salad when they have a McDonalds; all of those are simply examples of the commodification of culture which fits very neatly into globalisation. 

        • lefty 1.2.1.3

          Maori are not turning water into another commodity by owning it because they are talking about a different concept of ownership.

          Some things are so valuable it is foolish to place a monetary price on them because that ineveitably makes them available for abuse and exploitation by the highest bidder.

          It is far better to own them in the sense of being guardians of a treasure so they can be used wisely.

          Our water, air, seas and native forests fall into this category.

          Maori have shown no inclination to put a price on water.

          The Greens however want to totally commidfy water because they believe putting a price on it and subjecting it to market pressures is the best way of having it valued.

          As a pakeha I prefer the Maori approach to protecting our environment and our treasures.

          • weka 1.2.1.3.1

            The Greens however want to totally commidfy water because they believe putting a price on it and subjecting it to market pressures is the best way of having it valued
             

            Citation please.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 1.2.1.4

          “Maori are helping to turn water into just another commodity”

          What rank hypocrisy! Who is trying to sell the water rights? Not Maori. I note the total lack of outrage at the fact that the National Party behaves as though it owns the water.

      • xtasy 1.2.2

        The Resource Management Act also makes a lot impossible in NZ. For instance using water gathered from the rain on the roof, because there may well be health hazards and so forth.

        Find a council outside mainly rural areas allowing it.

        I knew a mate of a mate in Manukau, who tried it, but he got all sorts of hazzles, even threats that if he would not continue paying hypothetical water rates, they would confiscate his home and property!

    • darkhorse 1.3

      There is a deeper issue that has been the reason why good government and local government has always retained control of airports water supplies and so forth.

      water supplies have a value-in-use – the benefit of a glass of water and a functional value as a water supply – the ability to place many people and industries into a small space – this is a whole of system value of infrastructure and that is why such infrastructures need to be collectively owned by those served by it – because it is an essential service, because it needs to be invested in and maintained for the whole of system value not for the benefit of a rentier or monopolist.  The monopolist benefits from running these systems at a level of scarcity that extracts monopoly rents but not at such a level that provokes some political response.  The result is that the whole economy operates at level dictated by the service owned by the monopolist not by the natural productive limits of the whole system.

  2. xtasy 2

    We have now for many years had the privatisation or part privatisation or at least corporatisation of water supplies in virtually all of NZ.

    So when we turn open the tap, the water runs and gets metered. That is in most cases.

    It is common to get charged per litres, kilo-litres and so forth, so the argument, that water is “free” and that we may only pay for the “supply” through pipe networks, admin services and a few other additional bits involved is a total farce.

    Water is already treated as a bloody commodity, because if it was “free” to us as of right, we would not be charged per volume, but perhaps simply only for basic costs to enable it to flow “freely” into our homes or businesses.

    That is not the case. Key is again a total bull-shit artist, as he is selling us a story that is total nonsense when looking at the basic realities.

    Look at your water bills, and you will see, that we now already get charged for the water itself, same as calculated waste water.

    If I want to gather water for free, I need access to springs and that is not possible, as again owners of land will trespass me.

    Key is a total jerk, trying to tell people water it “free”, so we should allow 49 per cent privately owned mixed ownership companies, what run enterprises NZers own already (thus have seized from them) to utilise “free” water, while others have to pay for it.

    Hey, Hone Key, wake up, let the Waitangi Tribunal go its course, make its recommendations, listen to it, act on it, and then set up a national agency looking after ALL water interests of ALL NZers for the future.

    YOur asset sale plan has gone rotten, opened a can of worms, and you are a total idiot as PM. Only the too indifferent and uninformed majority still let you get off the hook , but your days are surely numbered!

    • weka 2.1

      I’ve never paid for water on a per litre basis, nor lived anywhere with a water meter, either in town or in rural areas.

      • xtasy 2.1.1

        Then you are the lucky exemption. Here in Auckland we all get charged. OK some get unmetered water, but they pay a hefty fixed annual charge now (as far as I gather going up right now), to cover prospective water consumption.

        The plan is, and this will be pursued by WaterCare and other suppliers, to charge all on metered basis. Fixed charges are for one side of costs, but the rest is metered, so consumption is measured and relevant, and the more you use, the more you pay.

        That to me is “commoditisation” and “user pays” for water, no doubt at all. Perhaps also talk to Penny Bright about this, she is a real expert on this!

        • Ad 2.1.1.1

          Why are you against metering water use?

          • xtasy 2.1.1.1.1

            I am not against water metering, as long as charges are reasonable and fair.

            My argument is, we have a Prime Minister, going around and telling media and the public that water is “free”, which is total garbage and BS.

            So while this goes on, most of us get charged for “use of” water, which is based on consumption rates and metered, thus making it a bloody commodity.

            If Key has any integrity, and if water is supposed to be “free”, he and his government should then abolish charges based on metered water, right?!

            • Paw prick 2.1.1.1.1.1

              No the price you pay is for the supply of water not for the water it’s self!

              • Murray Olsen

                If that’s the case, prick, why do they charge by volume, rather than a rental on the supply hardware?

            • Paw prick 2.1.1.1.1.2

              Will you extend that logic to farmers who irrigate 1000s of cubes a day??

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                Speaking of farmers, this one got prosecuted for stealing water. So just give it up already.

        • Populuxe1 2.1.1.2

          Actually it would appear that Auckland is the exception in this case. Most of New Zealand doesn’t have water meters.

          • xtasy 2.1.1.2.1

            So only Aucklanders get ripped off left right and centre!? We are supposed to have “free” water, which is not the case in Auckland and has not been the case in Papakura for a long time? Get Penny Bright onto this, I will not take this further, as it sounds like a hell of a lot of bullshit.

            • felix 2.1.1.2.1.1

              I don’t live in Auckland. Water meters are being installed right now.

              Ak will not be the exception for long now that everything’s up for grabs.

          • mike e 2.1.1.2.2

            Guess who’s allowing Auckland to have free water from the Whanganui
            populuxe Maori.

  3. weka 3

    I’m fairly sure that all of Canterbury, Otago and Southland charge for water via rates for domestic use and don’t use meters. I’d guess it’s the same for the whole of the SI.
     
    I take your point though, and agree that using a corporate model to manage water demonstrates that someone owns it (or thinks they do), and that Key is a disingenuous shit.

    • xtasy 3.1

      Excuse my lack of info on the South Island situation, but here up north, we have, especially in the Auckland region, been faced with de facto “privatisation” and “user pays” of water for well over ten years now.

      This may serve as a healthy warning to all those down south, to what may well be in store for you next. Beware, be alert and stop it in the beginnings, because once they set up such user pays, it is bloody hard to turn back the clock.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.1

        Um, we’ve been arguing against it for donkeys years in both Dunedin and Christchurch. Not that water quality in Dunedin is all that super. But thanks for your concern.

        • xtasy 3.1.1.1

          You should not “argue”, you should “unite” and take action, but is that beyond your imagination and intention?

  4. NotDarkYet 4

    1. ‘Maori’ aren’t claiming ‘ownership’ of water. First, no one speaks for ‘Maori’. Certainly not the NZMC reincarnated with Eddie Durie at the helm. Second, the case, if and when it goes to court, will definitely not bother trying to overturn fundamentals of common law such as free flowing water being incapable of ownership. Though, obviously, water is most definitely owned once captured, in pipes/tanks etc. 4. All that aside, the post is absolutely on the money: gaining a consent to take water from a river is a property right. Further much of our flowing water IS now effectively owned, since under our current crazy system of first in first served consents, most major and accessible rivers are fully allocated: that is, you cannot take any more water from them, because its already all spoken for. The most egregious example is Meridians 30 year right to take ALL the water from the entire Benmore hydro system. That is an extraordinarily valuable property right. And its exclusive, and exclusionary. Albeit, it is more like a rental of the river system than a freehold, since there’s a 30 term involved.
    5. The point, then, is that the NZMC argue that this system is, surely rightly, in the process of being overhauled, and they are yet to have their stake/role in any new system defined, and that role is potentially prejudiced by the current sales.
    6. The weakest link in that argument is definitely the last, though see the case of Meridian outlined above.
    7. The fundamental of the argument, that Maori (qua Maori, or via historical injustice) have rights in water, is not an easy thing to think about, and pat answers only betray unthinking prejudice. IMHO.
    8. The questions are: has the automatic application of the common law depiction of property in water done damage to Maori, and the rights they held and thought they were guaranteed until parting with willingly?: (Yes). Does that require recompense? (Probably) Does that have to be in the form of water rights? (perhaps)

    Its worth remembering New Zealand has busily gone about departing from almost every other presumption of common law on water, and has so often done so too often in order to deny Maori any property rights. See Crown law’s contortions (and eventual recourse to political settlements) over the Whanganui River, Lake Taupo, Lake Waikaremoana. And the foreshore…Etc etc etc….

    • bad12 4.1

      My view is this, Article Two of the Treaty of Waitangi,(English version), is totally unambiguous, ANY ambiguity between the English and Maori texts of that Treaty are in fact inherent within such text via the translation of the Colonial Governor’s representatives,

      At the time, on behalf of the Crown the English version of the Treaty of Waitangi was written the same people who wrote the English text also translated that text into what they thought was the Maori equivalent, Maori on a tribal or Rangatira basis had no imput into the writing of either version so we can take it as written that where there is discordance between the two versions of the treaty, Maori and English, the intention of the Crown was clearly set out in the English version and it was the Crown who wrote the Maori version believing that they were giving a literal translation of their intentions as set out in the English version,

      Article Two, Treaty of Waitangi,(english version), and i quote, ”CONFIRMS AND GUARANTEES TO THE CHIEFS AND TRIBES OF NEW ZEALAND AND TO THE RESPECTIVE FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS THEREOF, THE FULL, EXCLUSIVE, AND UNDISTURBED POSSESSION OF THEIR LANDS, ESTATES, FISHERIES, AND OTHER PROPERTIES THAT THEY MAY COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY POSSESS,” unquote,

      From that point on,anything the Crown,(now the New Zealand Government), did within the rivers and lakes of New Zealand from building electricity generating dams to allowing water resources to be allocated by Councils from the rivers and lakes simply breaches the intent of article two,

      Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….

      • RedLogix 4.1.1

        Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….

        And all other land and resources in this country.

        All you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now.

        (Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)

        • Pete George 4.1.1.1

          This is disgraceful. It deserves strong condemnation from moderators and commenters here.

          • higherstandard 4.1.1.1.1

            It’s satire you git.

            RL and I may disagree very regularly but he strongly dislikes bigotry whichever direction it comes from.

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.1.1

              RedLogix knew exactly what he was doing here. The only thing he didn’t do was have a red flashing neon sign on it. But he has a history of trying to use satire as an excuse for stirring up political and racial divides. I think it’s a serious misjudgement to use a phrase like that in the current climate.

              It was a deliberate racial provocation, and that can’t be easily laughed off as ‘satire’. Not everyone knows RedLogix (nor agrees with inappropriate satire). And not everyone sees things as ‘satire’ as is evident by mickysavage’s response, he was just making a lame excuse for this on face value.

              You may think RedLogix ‘strongly dislikes bigotry’ but try satire like this directed at Maori while claiming you ‘strongly dislike bigotry’ and see how understanding and approving of satire marty mars et al are. They can fly off the handle on imagined offence.

              (Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)

              /using deliberate racial provocation using satire as an excuse

              • felix

                Pete.

                It’s painful watching you twist yourself up over something you’ve obviously misunderstood, and now you’re directly attacking a moderator because you’re too stupid to know what you’re reading.

                If you have any sense of self-preservation you’ll prove me wrong by showing that you know what RL’s comment means.

                Go on. State for the record what you understand RL to have been saying. (Should be able to do it in one sentence, it’s not a complicated point he was making)

              • Um Pete it was clear to me it was satire, the mention of tags reinforced this.

                It was not clear to me that you realized it was satire.  You might have been genuinely confused instead of feigning disgust which was the other possibility.  I addressed you presuming the best.  

                Do not confuse my charity for support for your interpretation. 

                • Thanks for the advice. It’s handy to know that you can say anything you like here as long as you mention tags.

                  And it was interesting to see who swiftly responded.

                  • felix

                    Having witnessed:

                    a) your struggle with very simple analogy and metaphor, and

                    b) your apparent belief that insults, returned verbatim, automatically retain their relevance regardless of context, and

                    c) your inability to follow the most basic “IF THEN” logical sequence,

                    I’m not at all convinced that you have any idea what RL’s comment referred to.

                    Please prove me wrong.

                  • Petey did you really quote RL out of context on the sewer?

                    Did you really claim he said “[a]ll you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now” without the rest of his comment so that the context was not there?

                    Did you also say:

                    “Someone has to hold them to account DG. Besides, I’m learning a lot about how activists on the left operate”?

                    Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?

                    So many questions …
                     

                    • deuto

                      MS, you bet me to it re PG’s quoting out of context (again) on KB.

                      IMO you and felix have been over generous in your comments above re his possibly misunderstanding the satire. Sorry, his getting on his high horse is faux, considering the seriously racial remarks on FB against Maori on KB – and not a peep from PG on those remarks.

                      Update – and he is now at it again on KB General Debate this morning – that is, now quoting part of your comment there.

                    • Thanks Deuto.

                      Petey sure is a psychology textbook full of interesting features! 

                    • felix

                      So now he’s not only slagging off RL here, but after having plenty of opportunity to explain what he’s having trouble grasping, he’s deliberately misquoting him on other sites?

                      Far be it from me etc etc but if it were my site I wouldn’t have him back ever.

                    • “Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?”

                      That is exactly what the kiwibogcandidate does and look who he hangs with over there his old mate, lowest of the very low, garrett.

                      It is all unravelling pete – everyone knows what you are.

                    • felix, you’ve been getting hissier lately, because your incessant niggles have been going nowhere? So you decided to help engineer an escalation? Sorry if I didn’t react enough for your wee plan.

                      Far be it from me etc etc but it’s looking a bit desperate isn’t it?

                      You really don’t like free and honest speech, do you.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      “…engineer an escalation…”

                      Keep twisting and turning, wriggling and writhing on the point of that pin, specimen. You’re on display.

                    • felix

                      “So you decided to help engineer an escalation?”

                      If you mean “decided to find out whether you knew what you were reading”, then yes. But I haven’t been running around the internet misquoting you.

                      “You really don’t like free and honest speech, do you.”

                      Yes I do Pete, and I’m encouraging you to take part in some. Unsuccessfully it appears, as you still haven’t attempted to explain what you think RL’s comment meant.

                      Please, prove me wrong and show that you understood it. I urge you.

                      If you won’t, can you really blame me for assuming you can’t?

                    • Petey please answer my questions.
                      Did you really claim RL said “[a]ll you filthy colonising white maggot scum can crawl back to the slums you came from now” without the rest of his comment so that the context was not there?
                      Did you also say:
                      “Someone has to hold them to account DG. Besides, I’m learning a lot about how activists on the left operate”?
                      Do you come over here and stir up trouble just so you can report to your right wing superiors?

          • bad12 4.1.1.1.2

            Yes you are, as you have received strong condemnation from a number of commentor’s on a daily basis here at the Standard i will not bother to add mine…

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.3

            LOL pete you need to take a break from the webs

          • mickysavage 4.1.1.1.4

            Yeah.  The theft of lands and forests and waterways and fisheries are immaterial but use a couple of cross words and there is hell to pay.

            • QoT 4.1.1.1.4.1

              Micky, the feelings of old white dudes are paramount. If we don’t protect old white dudes’ feelings, can we ever truly achieve utopia?

          • Populuxe1 4.1.1.1.5

            You might have missed the invisible </tongue_in_cheek> there Pete

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.5.1

              Ah, no, the game was obvious, but it was interesting to see the usual suspects jump in here with nodding approval, compared to the levels of offence they manufacture for things I don’t even say or imply.

              Try playing a trick like that pointed in the opposite racial direction and see how they nod. And play the ‘tongue in cheek’ or tag defence and see how sensitive to humour they are.

              Te Maori puthetic. /end

              • felix

                Nice try Pete.

                Actually, no it wasn’t. That was a terrible try. You’re really not very good at any of this.

                Good to see you finally voicing an opinion though. Pity it’s a horrible one.

                • You’re very predictable felix. Have you responded to yesterday’s question yet? Or have you conveniently ignored it?

                  • felix

                    That thread was an effort to hold you to account for some implications you made but are unwilling to stand behind and unable to explain away when questioned. The logical interpretation has been laid out before you in the simplest possible ways, several times, and you have utterly failed to challenge it.

                    Throwing out a random query to try to change the subject doesn’t alter that, Pete, and I’m still waiting for a serious response.

                    As for this latest little faux par of yours (awkward), what do you think RL’s comment meant?

                    Honestly. What do you really think it meant?

                  • mike e

                    pg good morning Vietnam petey boy your like the DJ no one likes who plays opposite Robin Williams.
                    lt Steven Hauk a pathetic grovelar who follows the propaganda line and has no soul played by the late Bruno Kirby.

              • Te Maori puthetic. /end

                always got to play the person not the ball eh pete – that just shows the truth of you – nowhere to hide pete, remember you admitted the truth – “I acknowledge I’m sometimes negative and sometimes stir.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13072012/comment-page-1/#comment-493086 that was a bit of it there wasn’t it pete – a game for you to get your jollies and those jollies must be hard to get because you appear to have a very stunted sense of humour.

        • felix 4.1.1.2

          “(Maybe I should add a tag to this one, but for the life of me I can’t think which one…)”

          The “explaining the bleeding obvious to fools” tag might be the go, judging by Pete’s reaction.

      • weka 4.1.2

        Maori are in effect via article two of the Treaty of Waitangi the only legitimate source of the granting of any consent to use any water from the rivers and lakes in their possession at the point of the signing of that treaty….
         

        Except where there has been legitimate sale by iwi. Anyone know if any rivers and lakes were sold? I’m assuming that water running through land that was sold was considered by Pakeha and the Crown to become owned by the person who bought the land or by the Crown, but that Maori may have seen this differently.

  5. prism 5

    We have metered water in Nelson, metered on volumes. The City Council charges for it. We put in expensive water filters as we were showing too much particulate matter or organisms or both and the treatment plant was expensive, and the filters are also and have to be replaced every 5-10 years. It cut down water use, which is a way of enforced saving, and forcing people to value stuff which costs money to collect and pipe to whatever points. The water collectors built in Africa for villages are a boon. Paying for ours should be kept within bounds but not expected to be free at point of use. General water rates don’t being usage home to individuals.

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  • Media Advisory – MANA Movement Candidate for Waiariki Annette Sykes, Waia...
    Media are advised that this coming weekend, the MANA Movement Candidate for Waiariki, Annette Sykes, will be on the Internet MANA Road Trip within the electorate of Waiariki. Speakers confirmed are Annette Sykes, Hone Harawira, John Minto, Laila Harre and Kim...
    Mana | 27-08
  • Internet MANA – Waiariki Road Trip: 29, 30, 31 Aug 2014
    The Internet MANA Road Trip hits Waiariki this weekend. It would be great if all MANA members in Waiariki could especially attend the public meetings and show their support for our Waiariki candidate Annette Sykes. Confirmed speakers Hone Harawira (except Taupo), Annette...
    Mana | 27-08
  • First home buyers $200 a week better off with Labour
    A couple earning around $75,000 a year would be $200 a week better off buying a two bedroom terraced Labour KiwiBuild home instead of an equivalent new build under National’s housing policy, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe.  “National’s policy to...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Another Day – Another big power profit
    The latest profit announcement from Genesis Energy shows that the power company was sold for a song to the detriment of the country’s power consumers, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “A net profit of $ 49.2 million follows hard...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour embraces the rainbow
    Labour will work hard to ensure all New Zealanders enjoy the freedom to grow up and live their lives in dignity and security. Labour’s Rainbow policy, released tonight in Wellington, focuses on International Relations, Human Rights and Education....
    Labour | 26-08
  • National gets fast and loose with the facts
    In their desperation to make it look as though they are doing something about the housing crisis, National is playing fast and loose with the facts, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford....
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour will drop power prices for Kiwi families
    New Zealanders will get cheaper power prices under NZ Power, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “The electricity market is clearly broken. With falling demand for electricity, prices should be going down. Instead prices are going up and companies are extracting...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour: Promoting sustainable tourism
    Ensuring New Zealand’s clean, green status continues to be an international tourism benchmark and reviewing MBIE’s oversight of the tourism sector will be on the radar under a Labour Government. Releasing Labour’s Tourism policy today, spokesperson Darien Fenton said tourism...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Skills shortage a result of National’s complacency
    The fact that there is still a severe shortage of skilled tradespeople, despite a growth in the number of apprentices, is a result of National’s failure to plan and develop the workforce, Grant Robertson, Labour Employment, Skills and TrainingSpokesperson says."The...
    Labour | 26-08
  • How much tax does John Key pay compared to a minimum wage worker?? – Mint...
    MANA Movement Economic Justice spokesperson John Minto is calling for a radical overhaul of New Zealand’s taxation system with calculations showing that a minimum wage worker pays a ten times higher tax rate than the Prime Minister. o Minimum wage...
    Mana | 25-08
  • Labour’s culture of science and innovation
    Labour will create a culture of science and innovation in New Zealand that will be the envy of the world, says Labour’s Innovation, Research and Development spokesperson Megan Woods. “Labour believes that good science lies at the heart of a...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Improving life for our new New Zealanders
    New Zealand’s international standing as a community that encourages and fosters all cultures will be bolstered under a Labour Government with an upgrade of the present Office of Ethnic Affairs to a Ministry. Releasing Labour’s Ethnic Affairs policy, spokesperson Phil...
    Labour | 25-08
  • South Auckland housing crisis
    National’s HomeStart package is nothing more than a political stunt designed to beguile South Auckland voters, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio. “Few working Pasifika and Maori workers in South Auckland will be able to buy their own...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Home buyer subsidy discredited in Oz
    Treasury advised against National’s policy of ramping up home buyer subsidies after it was discredited in Australia because it pushed house prices even higher, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Documents released under the OIA (attached) show Treasury advised the...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Nursing hours explain turnover and high-stress culture
    A staff survey supports concerns nursing staff at Dunedin Hospital are under increasing pressure and that the emergency department is in a critical state, says Labour’s Associate Health Spokesperson David Clark.  “An ED nursing survey at Dunedin found that 80...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Underhand tactics prove case for axing donations
    Revelations that schools are using underhand tactics to coerce donations from cash-strapped parents further highlights the need for Labour's plan to increase funding so they aren't dependent on contributions from parents, Labour's Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “By law New...
    Labour | 24-08
  • National applies band-aid to housing crisis
    The Government’s flagship housing announcement is a band-aid approach that will push up prices rather than solve the housing crisis, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “House sales to first home buyers have collapsed as a direct result of the Government’s...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Climate change focus on the now for the future
    A Labour Governmentwill put in place a comprehensive climate change strategy focusing on bothmitigation and adaptation, establish an independent Climate Commission andimplement carbon budgeting, says Labour Climate Change spokesperson MoanaMackey."This is about future-proofing our economy. Making the transition to alow-carbon...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Labour’s 21st century transport pledge
    The next Labour-led Government will create a 21st century transport system for New Zealand that promotes the most efficient and sustainable combination of transport options, says Labour’s Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Labour will rebalance the Government's transport spending away from...
    Labour | 23-08
  • Housing under National: the facts
    1.       House prices in Auckland Council valuations indicate Auckland house prices have gone up by one-third over the last three years. (Auckland Council) The average Auckland house price has gone up by nearly $225,000 since 2008, up over $75,000 in...
    Labour | 23-08
  • Labour irons out low income tax issue
    The increasing casualisation of work has led to many New Zealand families being disadvantaged through the tax they pay, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. "Many low paid workers are having to work two or three jobs to make ends meet...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Cornered Government comes out swinging
    The National Government is so desperate to keep its dead-in-the-water expert teachers policy alive, it has refused to rule out forcing schools to participate through legislation, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “John Key today attacked the Educational Institute for...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Pacific people continue to go backwards under National
    A report from Victoria University highlights the fact that Pacific people are continuing to go backwards under a National Government, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio.  “The report shows the largest inequality increases were in smoking, obesity, tertiary...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Wellington transport plan needs to keep moving
    The failure of the Transport Agency to properly look at alternatives to the Basin Reserve flyover is not a good reason for further delays to improving transport in Wellington, Labour MPs Grant Robertson and Annette King say. “The Board of...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Labour’s focus on inequality, kids and better job prospects
    Tackling child poverty and removing barriers to people working part time to enhance their prospects of moving into a fulltime job are highlights of Labour’s Social Development policy. Releasing the policy today, spokesperson Sue Moroney said while part-time work was...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Political staff should give answers under oath
    The Inspector General of Security and Intelligence should use her full statutory powers to question witnesses under oath about the leak of SIS information, says Labour MP Phil Goff. “Leakage of confidential information from the SIS for political purposes is...
    Labour | 21-08
  • High dollar, hands-off Govt sends workers to dole queue
    The loss of up to 100 jobs at Croxley stationery in Auckland is devastating news for their families and the local Avondale community, Labour’s Employment, Skills and Training spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The company’s inability to compete in international markets...
    Labour | 21-08
  • National’s flagship education policy dead in the water
    National’s plan to create executive principals and expert teachers is effectively dead in the water with news that 93 percent of primary teachers have no confidence in the scheme, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “The fact that teachers are...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Dunedin will be a knowledge and innovation centre under Labour
    Dunedin will become a knowledge and innovation centre under a Labour Government that will back local businesses, support technology initiatives and fund dynamic regional projects, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Nowhere has the National Government’s short-sightedness been more apparently than...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Want to lift voter participation? #futurevoter selfie this election with yo...
    As the importance of democratic engagement starts making its presence felt in the wake of the lowest voter turn out in a century, it’s time to make universal suffrage a goal again. One step towards that is nurturing the future...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • A brief word on hacked celebrity naked pictures
    Of  all the inane bullshit I’ve heard in my life, the one currently saying ‘if you take naked pictures of yourself you should expect them to be seen by everyone’ is possibly the dumbest. Deleted intimate images people take in the...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • The Daily Blog 2014 progressive voter guide – who to vote for to change ...
    If you want to know how to vote in a way to change this Government,  here is the electorate by electorate guide on how to strategically vote to kick National out of office. There are two votes. Electorate vote and Party...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Are Cameron Slater and Judiith Collins bare-faced liars?
    . . Are Cameron Slater and Judith Collins both bare-faced liars? Both of them. Liars? Here is why I ask… In the latest revelations, information disclosed by Rawshark/Whaledump to the NZ Herald alleges in further leaked sensitive information from  ...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • What has surprised me most about the Ashburton WINZ shootings
    The terrible deaths at a WINZ office in Ashburton took us all by surprise. Staunch poverty campaigner Sue Bradford commented before the deaths were known and was attacked by waves of twitterarti who knew best. Sue apologised but her wider...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kiri Hannifin  – Make domestic violence an election issue
    Violence against women and children continues to be a profound issue in this country.  Despite the stellar efforts of thousands of grass roots workers to support victims of violence every day, we cannot seem to stem the tide. The past...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Factchecking Key’s Leaders debate claims
    There were so many questionable facts Key threw at Cunliffe in last nights debate that I emailed a few contacts to ask if they were true. Here is the very long list of things Key said that simply were not...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • August Blog stats – TDB closing in on Kiwiblog – our final election con...
    The August blog stats are in, and The Daily Blog retains our position as the largest left wing blog in NZ with 416 374 visits last month and 667 411. Kiwi Blog who has been operating for a decade with...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – New Zealand First: Coalition of the Willing...
    There is, right now, an absolute metric truck-tonne of misinformation, lies, and willful distortion flying about on social media, in the blogosphere and even in the media and corridors of power about New Zealand First’s coalition position. Some of this...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, Judith Collins i...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • The Press Leaders Debate – proof a newspaper can kill the internet
    No more beersies for you Mr Key. Seriously – was the Prime Minister drunk during this debate? I am so sickened by what passed as a Leaders debate, I will make this review short and vicious. Everyone involved in putting...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Voting starts tomorrow!
    On the telly, in the papers, on the Net, billboards on almost every street corner – it’s hard to miss the fact that there’s an election coming up. Everyone’s trying to win your vote on Election Day, September 20, (this...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Collins inquiry a whitewash before it has even started
    The farce whitewash that Key is trying to push through here for the inquiry into Judith Collins role in a hit on the SFO should enrage any NZer, regardless of how they vote. Whaleoil won’t be forced to appear, it’s...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Press Leaders Debate – Round 2 – 7pm tonight
    This debate is live in a Town Hall, Key has done well at these in the past, but since the hate politics exposed in Dirty Politics, expect real fury directed at Key. My guess is that Key will attempt to use whatever he...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • MANA hit speed wobbles – why Annette Sykes will win Waiariki
    MANA are my favourites. But of late, their transition from crawling to sprinting has hit some speed wobbles. Hone’s and Pam’s aggressive attitude towards the media recently is very understandable in light of how connected many of the media were to...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Soz Cam – PaknSave boycott of whaleoil continues – time to start a boyc...
    Cam is so carcinogenic now, not even his mates in the Tobacco Industry are talking to him any longer. I suspect only the Israeli Defence Force propaganda department are paying for content on whaleoil now. Cam says that PaknSave have dropped their problems...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • The Rock Fuels NZ Roastbuster Rape Culture
    This is making me feel pretty uncomfortable. Here we have an instance of Jono and Ben posing like “exposed celebrities”. But do you know what I’m seeing? I’m seeing two dudes who basically “roasted” a woman online (exposed pictures of...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – Why beneficiaries need advocacy
    There are times when I am wrong. I was wrong recently when someone suggested to me that AAAP should be eligible for government funding to continues its advocacy work. That was before. Before dealing with advocacy on a weekly basis...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • TheDailyBlog September Political Poll Has Been Kicked Off
    The Daily Blog’s August poll has concluded and the September poll has been kicked off, asking readers: What party will you likely vote for at this year’s General Election? You will see this month’s poll in the right-hand sidebar of...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – Jamie Whyte, leave that poor seal alone!
    Worse than showing mere lip service to Rainbow inclusion, ACT leader Jamie Whyte showed stunning arrogance when appeared at a candidates debate on rainbow issues hosted by the Auckland University Students’ Association last Thursday. The stunning hypocrisy was evident as...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Right wing can’t help but use scum
    Some people have been shocked that the traditional right wing party in New Zealand politics is so deeply embedded with scum like the blogger Whale Oil. We need not be so surprised. It takes a certain type to support the...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • EXCLUSIVE: National’s Ohariu candidate admits contact by Simon Lusk
    . . Wellington, NZ, 31  August – At a meet-the-candidates public meeting in the Rongotai Electorate, National’s Ohariu candidate, Brett Hudson, confirmed that he had been approached by “a mate”, who passed on a message from  National Party operative, Simon...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014
    Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Petition for Governor General of New Zealand to Investigate all the allegat...
      Now we see the inquiry will be a whitewash, that is secret, won’t be consulted with the Opposition, will have limited scope and will ignore Nicky Hager’s book, we must demand the Governor General step in and demand an...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Ashburton, 1 September 2014
    I NEVER WENT BACK to Aramoana after the killing. I had been a frequent visitor to the tiny seaside village back in the late 1970s and throughout the 80s. Its tall cliffs and broad beaches providing a colourful backdrop to...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Checkmate in 1 move – how could Slater have known what was in OIA request...
    And now we get down to the final few moves before checkmate. If the following investigation is right, how could Slater and Collins have known what was in the Secret Intelligence Service Official Information Act request that hadn’t been released...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • The Edge Posts Naked Photos Of Jennifer Lawrence Without Consent
    Today the Edge website – owned by Media Works – published fully naked photographs of Jennifer Lawrence without her consent. It is not OK to publish naked media of any woman without her consent, full stop. It is absolutely disgusting...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Bomber, Laila and Maggie – a highlight from Auckland Broadcasting Debate ...
    Bomber, Laila and Maggie – a highlight from Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, how good was I i...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Maggie Barry slags Laila Harre & blogger, audience erupt
    The Coalition for Better Broadcasting held their public meeting in Auckland last night and it became a fiery shouting match when Maggie Barry decided to slag Laila Harre and me off. 250 people packed into the Pioneer Hall off High...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • It has to be a full independent public inquiry and Key MUST front
      You know things are bad when images like this start appearing in the media.  It isn’t a ‘left wing conspiracy’ to point out the over whelming evidence of what is clearly a right wing conspiracy! If it looks like a conspiracy, sounds like a conspiracy...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Political Party social media stats – National playing Dirty Politics on s...
    Interesting data from friend of the blog, Marty Stewart, on social media likes and it shows an interesting question that post Dirty Politics should probably get asked…   …it’s interesting that Key has so many personal followers.  One wonders if...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • The depth of the National rot and the compliance of our news media
    I’m so tired. Aren’t you? I don’t want to read the news anymore. It’s awful and I feel ashamed of it. We live in a country that people all over the world would give an arm, a leg; their life...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Conservative Party candidate links smacking ban with suicide, sexually tran...
    If Chemtrails, faked moon landings and climate change denial weren’t enough, welcome to your new Minister for Spanking,  Edward Saafi... The anti-smacking law is to blame for youth suicide, youth prostitution and even sexually-transmitted infections, a leading Conservative party candidate...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word on the canonisation of Matthew Hooton
    Before we all start the canonisation of Matthew Hooton, let’s consider some home truths here shall we? While the Wellington Ruminator Blog, the blog who was previously mates with Judith Collins, now seems to have a crush on Matthew Hooton… …I...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word on undercover cops in bars
    Dunedin police booze operation labelled ‘creepy’ Undercover police officers drank in Dunedin bars as part of an operation targeting liquor licensing offences. While police said the inaugural operation was a success — with most bars found compliant — the Hospitality...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Judith Collins press conference
    Judith Collins press conference...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Angry Lawyer – Collins, Odgers, Williams and legal ethics
    We deserve better lawyers than Judith Collins Three of the worst offenders exposed in Dirty Politics are lawyers: Judith Collins, Cathy Odgers, and Jordan Williams. What Nicky Hager exposed them doing would be out of line for anyone, but from...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Necessary Defence
    Increasingly climate change is becoming the main fracture line between political parties. Where political parties stand on climate change defines political parties and movements like no other issue. The Mana Movement like the Maori Party it sprang from, came out...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Why it is all over for John Key
    Image: Melanie D I’ve been confident that National will lose this election and that our focus should be on what a progressive Government needs to establish as its agenda in the first 100 days. Past that point, the establishment pushes back...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word to everyone who voted National in 2011
    I received this interesting email from a National Party supporter today… …let me say this to anyone who voted National last election – you should be ashamed by what has been revealed and what your vote ended up enabling but...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • EXCLUSIVE: Déjà Vu All Over Again: John Ansell confirms his participation...
      THE MAN BEHIND the Iwi-Kiwi billboards that very nearly won the 2005 election for Don Brash and the National Party has confirmed his involvement in businessman John Third’s and former Act MP Owen Jennings’ campaign to drive down the...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Public Broadcasting Auckland debate 6.30pm tonight now with Colin Craig &am...
    The Coalition for Better Broadcasting debate on public broadcasting happens tonight at 6.30pm in Auckland at the Pioneer Women’s Hall, High Street, Auckland City.  In the light of Dirty Politics and the manipulation of the media, public broadcasting is more important for...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Winners & Losers in Collins sacking plus what’s the latest on Slater...
      Make no mistake, there was no way this was a resignation, it’s a face saving way out for Collins, she was sacked.  My understanding is that National internal polls are haemorrhaging and that the powers that be within National...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Third party propaganda attacks incoming Labour-led government
    . . Further to a report by Daily Blogger, Chris Trotter, on receiving information regarding planned attack-billboards, the following billboard is highly visible to traffic on the southbound lane of the Wellington motorway, just prior to the Murphy St turn-off....
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Labour wins the Internet
    I’m sure I’m not the only one who tried to vote online for the leaders debate and couldn’t because the website was down. The next option was the txt vote, 75c a pop of course. So I’m not surprised that...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Anjum Rahman – Rotherham and the need to challenge willful bl...
    I haven’t been following the events in Rotterham too closely.  I’ve read about the basic issues and the culture of silence that stopped action been taken even after complaints were made.  That culture of silence is incredibly familiar, and described...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Review: Hairspray
      Oh Hairspray! What fun! Somehow I managed to miss the movie when it came out, I had no idea really what it was about though I felt it had a vague relation to High School Musical. In retrospect, that...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Mounting global pressure against Timor-Leste’s ‘death sentence’ media...
    East Timor’s José Belo … courageous fight against ‘unconstitutional’ media law.Image: © Ted McDonnell 2014 CAFÉ PACIFIC and the Pacific Media Centre Online posted challenges to the controversial ‘press law’ nine months ago when it emerged how dangerous this draft...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Spies, Lies and When Campaigns Are Fried
    Like most of the rest of the nation’s political classes, I was eagerly affixed to TV One from 12:30 on Saturday afternoon to witness the downfall of Judith Collins.Whenever we witness the crumbling of a titan of the political landscape...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • New Doco on Māori Television Examines Social Housing
    A new documentary to air on Māori Television in the lead-up to the election will address the reality of low income housing in this country in a climate of state gentrification and privatisation. WHARE TAPA WHĀ , (loosely translated as...
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • Thames WINZ arrest should serve as warning to others
    Waikato Police say the charging of a man following an incident in the Thames Work and Income office today should serve as a warning to others that unacceptable behaviour cannot, and will not be tolerated....
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • Secretary-General’s lecture at the University of Auckland
    I again thank this University of Auckland for bestowing on me an honourary degree in recognition of the enduring value of the United Nations....
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • New Zealand First is just too expensive
    “The independent Taxpayers Union now estimates that Winston Peters has made more spending promises than Labour and the Greens combined”, said Dr Whyte, ACT’s Leader....
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • Adequate family incomes essential to reduce child poverty
    Child Poverty Action Group says making sure families have enough money to care for their children is a fundamental part of the solution to child poverty....
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • Doesn’t Your Dad Goat Enough?
    A challenge that most Kiwis can relate to in the weeks leading up to father’s day: How do we honour the great men in our life in a meaningful way?...
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • At the end of their tether!
    Many in New Zealand will have seen the sight of a lone goat chained on a roadside verge on their travels . Given the job of "lawnmower" these gregarious, highly social, intelligent animals endure a miserable existence denied their most...
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • NZratifies new treaty to control the $85bn global arms trade
    New Zealand ratifies new treaty to control the $85bn global arms trade for the first time ever...
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • Threats against Work and Income staff a disgrace
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says the continuing threats against Work and Income staff in the wake of the Ashburton shootings are a disgrace, and must end....
    Scoop politics | 03-09
  • Greens will put tens of thousands out of work
    "The $18 minimum wage championed by the Greens will throw tens of thousands of low skilled New Zealanders out of a job and condemn them to a life on the benefit. At no point do the Greens discuss the employment...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • PGA: Welcomes NZ’s ratification of Arms Trade Treaty
    President of Parliamentarians for Global Action and New Zealand MP Ross Robertson today welcomed the news that the New Zealand Government has ratified the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) at the United Nations in New York....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Forest & Bird releases top priorities for new government
    Independent conservation organisation Forest & Bird is calling for all political parties to adopt policies to bring about an economic transformation - for the sake of New Zealand and New Zealanders. The call comes as part of Forest & Bird’s...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • More good Questions for Mr. Cunliffe
    Exempting the family home from Capital Gains taxes is harder than it sounds. What if you charge one of the children board? What if it is one of the children’s friends? A boarder? Many South Auckland families share a house....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Why are the Anglican Bishops silent in defending life?
    The Anglican Archbishops in Aotearoa New Zealand have identified four key challenges facing the country in the run-up to the General Election onSeptember 20. These issues are: • Child poverty • Income inequality • Lack of affordable and accessible...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Encouraging the phenomenal growth in the Māori economy
    As the only independent Māori voice in Parliament, the Māori Party’s economic development policy is unashamedly focused on growing the Māori economy....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Bottom line demands by minor parties destabilising
    "Bottom line demands by minor parties are destabilising and undemocratic" said Dr Jamie Whyte. "Colin Craig says referenda being binding is a bottom line and now Winston Peters says a Royal Commission is a bottom line. Polls say the vast...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Victoria students lead youth engagement publication
    A group of Victoria University students are trying to reverse the trend of political disengagement by giving young people a voice....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • NZEI Te Riu Roa welcomes Green Party commitment to fairness
    NZEI Te Riu Roa has welcomed the Green Party's commitment to making work fairer and more equitable, saying it would also result in tangible benefits for children and their learning....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • MANA Movement says tax cut on GST must be first priority
    “If Prime Minister John Key has money available for tax cuts then cutting GST must be the first priority”, said MANA Movement Economic Justice Spokesperson John Minto. “GST is a nasty tax on low-income families”, said Minto. “People in...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • The Maori Party’s Mana-Enhancing Relationship with National
    MANA Movement candidate, John Minto 3 Wednesday September 2014 “First we had Cameron Slater and David Farrar backing Labour’s Kelvin Davis bid to unseat MANA Movement Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Hone Harawira. Now we have Slater writing...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Craig And Mcvicar Have Some Explaining to Do
    The Taxpayers’ Union is calling on Garth McVicar and the Conservative Party to explain how much the Party’s ‘tough on crime’ election slogan will cost. On Monday the Party was added to the Taxpayers’ Union Bribe-O-Meter , but the Conservative...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Political parties to be questioned on needs of children
    Political party representatives will be asked to outline their policies in three key areas relating to the needs of children at a public forum being hosted this Friday by the University of Otago, Wellington (UOW). The event has been co-organised...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Voting Period for 2014 General Election Begins Today
    The first votes for the 2014 general election will be cast today, Wednesday 3 September, as advance voting begins ahead of election day on Saturday 20 September. “Election day is September 20, but if you want, you can vote from...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Independent Epsom Candidates ‘One Strike’ Crime Policy
    Best wishes to all of those who live in Epsom, Mount Eden, New Market, Remuera and of course the rest of New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Large majorities of NZ First voters would prefer Labour deal
    67% of those who voted for New Zealand First at the 2011 general election would prefer Labour to lead a coalition government if one is needed after September 20’s general election....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Jointly owned urban development agency for Christchurch
    “Given the strategic importance of the Canterbury rebuild, it is logical that the transition from emergency governance arrangements is overseen by the Prime Minister’s office, but to maintain momentum in the city centre an expert development agency...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Collins inquiry at best a Band-Aid, a permanent fix needed
    Collins inquiry at best a Band-Aid, a permanent fix is needed The Public Service Association (PSA) says the inquiry into Judith Collins’ behaviour must be accompanied by a process to restore the lost trust between Ministers and public servants if...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Association welcomes new Chief Executive
    “The New Zealand Police Association is pleased to announce the appointment of Heather Verry to Chief Executive. Heather picks up the mantle from Chris Pentecost, who recently retired from this position,” Police Association President Greg O’Connor said...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Young Voters Want Politicians to Grow Up
    Young voters want answers to the questions that directly affect them – but it seems as much as anything, they want politicians to grow up....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Climate Voter election debate to get big audience
    Auckland, 2 September 2014 - Tickets to tomorrow night’s first-ever Climate Voter election debate have sold out but an online audience will also get to see the event live....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • The Edge show disregard for consent
    The Edge has shown complete disregard for consent, for women’s bodies and in doing so has contributed to the wider issue of rape culture in New Zealand says specialist sexual violence prevention organisation, Sexual Abuse Prevention Network. Yesterday,...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • The Rock is Fuelling New Zealand’s Roastbuster Rape Culture
    The Rock are still displaying without-consent images of Jennifer Lawrence and other celebrities online. They are making fun of this without-consent action, saying that she was "asking for it", etc. They appear to be supporting this kind of...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • HRLA Condemns Murder of Filipino Human Rights lawyer
    Attorney Rodolfo R. Felicio, a member of the National Union of Peoples Lawyers , was gunned down while working on a land dispute in Rizal, east of Manila. Two caretakers of the disputed land were also injured in the attack....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • SFO lays charges for procurement fraud
    Two individuals have been charged in the Auckland District Court today with Crimes Act charges laid by the Serious Fraud Office for alleged fraud against Mighty River Power Limited relating to procurement for the Company’s Southdown power station....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Commitment to lifting wages good for New Zealand
    The Service and Food Workers Union has applauded the Green Party workers’ policy announced today....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Sykes: There’s Only One Poll That Counts
    “One of the oldest sayings in politics is that there is only one poll that counts – the one on Election Day – and that’s the one that I am focusing on” remarked the MANA Movement candidate for Waiariki, Annette...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Winston Peters Shown up by the Civilian Party
    Even the satirical 'Civilian Party' has now offered the Taxpayers’ Union more credible figures for the ' Bribe-O-Meter ' than Winston Peters’ New Zealand First. The Taxpayers’ Union Bribe-O-Meter now includes, National, Labour, the Greens,...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Further criminal investigation into CTV Building collapse
    Police has today confirmed it will be advancing the criminal investigation into the collapse of the CTV building in February 2011....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Greens policy to restore link between effort and reward
    The Green Party’s new workers policy articulates an alternative to wage repression and job insecurity based on restoring the link between effort and reward, according to FIRST Union. The core tenets of the policy include implementing an $18 minimum...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Greens workers policy supported by union movement
    The CTU is supporting the Green Party’s policy launched today focused on improving life for working New Zealanders. “This policy shows the Greens commitment to collective bargaining as the best and fairest way to improve workers terms and conditions. It...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Research Scholarships for Cannabis Treatments
    Medical cannabis research will be boosted by $140 million if the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party is elected on September 20. Pediatric epilepsy treatment will be one of the main priorities for the research scholarships....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Ngai Te Rangi Change to Tribal Elections
    Ngai Te Rangi has begun a postal vote of beneficiaries to change the way representatives are elected to the two Ngai Te Rangi tribal organisations....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Greens’ commitment to pay equity welcomed by workers
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says the 58,000 workers they represent will benefit from the announcement by the Green Party of a commitment to pay equity and to a living wage for core public servants and contractors....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Real People Powering Real Policy
    New Zealanders from all walks of life have helped the Internet Party create a full platform of strong, progressive and realistic policies that will create a better future for everyone, says leader Laila Harré....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • University of Canterbury to help with forestry safety
    The University of Canterbury is to launch a new research project to make sure New Zealand’s new forestry roads are safe and are established with minimal environmental impact....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Time to get serious about ending homelessness!
    New Zealand needs a comprehensive set of policies that address the housing and support needs of homeless people as well as significantly increasing the supply of affordable, good quality houses and flats....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Hundreds to join domestic, sexual violence march
    Several social service providers from across New Zealand have come together to call for an end to the epidemic level of domestic and sexual violence in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Students helped with debt repayments
    New Zealand students now living in Australia are being reminded not to ignore their student loan debt as Inland Revenue expands its latest tool to help with repayments....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Launch of GenderNeutral.co.nz website
    GenderNeutral.co.nz are excited to announce the launch of their new website, GenderNeutral.co.nz ....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Factory farming debaters to look chicken in the eye
    MPs participating in a panel discussion about factory farming will come face-to-face with a real live hen, rescued from the claws of the intensive farming industry. Hettie the Hen will demonstrate to the MPs what little space is afforded to...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
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