What do you value?

Written By: - Date published: 10:16 pm, January 30th, 2014 - 54 comments
Categories: Deep stuff - Tags: ,

Tim Watkins has written a piece on Labour’s Best Start policy.

Down in the comments were the most incredible remarks I have read in support of the policies.

They cut through all of criticism of the policy in way which I had not seen before and well, basically, they blew my little mind. The comments were written by Ian Hassall, New Zealand’s first Children’s Commisioner. Here is the exchange between Tim and Ian…

 

Ian:Tim, one of the arguments for universalism you missed was that it places a value directly on children and the people who care for them, whatever their financial circumstances. Since Labour’s policy announcement the arguments for and against that I have seen have been mainly economic, incentive, political and moral. The signal that children are valued and can be central to a new politics whose values differ from those of the last thirty years is central to what I understood David Cunliffe to be saying.

 

Tim: Ian, I’d be interested in your take on this, especially as you mention morality. Is it economically and morally sound to simply give money to almost all parents who have a baby?

You mention incentives, but there are no incentives involved in this, no quid pro quo the recipients have to offer in return for the rest of us offering them financial support. So presumably the argument is simply that $60 a week – or to be less cynical, some form of state support – should be the right of every citizen? Because otherwise you’d target it, wouldn’t you? Really, why not target this?

And what values from 30 years ago are you refering to? The value of the same for all?

 

Ian: No, I think the argument goes that children are of value to society and that the time, love and material investment made by parents and others in the early years has a payoff for society as Heckman has shown. A cash subsidy acknowledges this. The values system that denies these things is encapsulated in the saying, ‘There is no such thing as society’. This values system which has held sway in public policy for thirty years and contributed to the atomisation of a generation is not capable of sustaining our civilisation and needs to be replaced as the dominant driver by an alternative set of values.An alternative set of values which includes compassion, selflessness and a longer term perspective is typically what is evoked by caring for children, and can be encouraged by a public policy in which children’s needs and

interests are central. A society that looks after its children is an agreeable society and one that has a future.

This is not to deny that rampant greed and selfishness is one, possibly essential, driver of our society, which you will have been reminded of if you saw the movie, ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’, or if you read the ‘Alex’ cartoons in the Herald but it should be put back in its box and not contaminate public discourse and public policy.

 

From this perspective, the criticisms of Labour from John Key are irrelevant and petty and the true motivations of Nationals policies can be seen for what they are: election year concessions from a party that no longer believes in society.

The Labour party is slowly becoming old school again. Not 1984 old school…proper old school. It started With the membership’s victory last year and now the policies are starting to come out. They may be fumbling the ball a bit, they may not have the slickness of Key but what they are doing…is the right thing.

 

Geoff

54 comments on “What do you value? ”

  1. Lionel 1

    What a super post would love it if Mr Hassalls comments were more universally broadcast

  2. geoff 2

    The 2nd last paragraph is my words, not part of the quote as presently shown. Could someone with superpowers please fix? Thanks.

    Done

  3. Anne 3

    Splendid stuff and it really encapsulates what most have been trying to say here at the Standard.

    I give Tim Watkins credit for a reasoned and intelligent summation of the Best Start programme. He may have reservations about aspects of the policy, but compared to certain other journalists – who shall remain unnamed – it is refreshingly fair.

    Surely someone like Ian Hassall is a far more appropriate person to be seeking an opinion from, than the RWNJs that are usually wheeled out by the media for comment.

  4. xtasy 4

    I value a HUMAN and humane, fair, just and democratic society!

    I feel we do no longer have this under this government, for various reasons!

    For instance we have welfare “reforms” that are to me an abomination, as they indicate the first signs of a society, that will favour eugenics:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Darwin_to_Hitler

    We have a ‘Principal Health Advisor’ working for MSD and WINZ, who thinks that benefit dependence is like “drug dependence”, and he also believes that most suffering mental illness and musculo skeletal conditions suffer merely from “illness belief”. He, and his master “educator”, Professor Mansel Aylward, from the UK (formerly DWP, working with ATOS, and being paid by corrupt UNUM insurance to develop suitably biased “research” on disabled and sick), have come to the conclusion that work is the best “therapy”, is generally “good for your health”, and that sick and disabled should be challenged and pushed into work, to contribute.

    The logical conclusion is, if they cannot, they are not “worthy”. It sounds a bit like the “work will set you free” cry by the NAZIs.

    We have further signs of this ideology taking a foot hold in the medical profession in NZ:

    “Overcoming and Challenging Adversity – the Prequel (Social Welfare in NZ 2013)” – a presentation by Dr Bratt, similar to others, and it is found here:

    http://www.conference.co.nz/files/docs/pmaanz13/speaker%20presentation/1610%20david.pdf

    On page 10 of 20 it says:

    “Long Acting Reversible Contraception
    • Commonly known as LARCs
    • All female beneficiaries and female
    dependents of beneficiaries over the age of
    16yrs are eligible to have the costs associated
    with the consultation, assessment , insertion
    and if required the removal of LARC covered
    by a Special Needs Grant from Work & Income
    • This only applies to Subsidised LARCs
    • And this means it does not normally cover
    Mirena IUCD insertion.”

    It suggests that women on benefits get such LARCs, to stop “breeding”, as their “breeding” is unwelcome and does not contribute to societal wellbeing!

    Hey, that is just part of it, he also likens benefit dependence to “drug dependence”, in many other presentations.

    Now this happens here right in NZ, why is nobody standing up against it? Some are, but most are silent, ignore it, or even support this. How “NAZI” are some Kiwis, I ask?

    It is time to take a bloody stand, and this is important, the question here is: “What do you value?”

    There is more to it, but think, take some time, do some reading, please:

    http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/15264-welfare-reform-the-health-and-disability-panel-msd-the-truth-behind-the-agenda/

    This is a long distance away from what David Cunliffe was proposing with Best Start, and of course, the critics like to shoot it to pieces, to justify what I just mentioned above. Shame on Key, National, ACT AND the mainstream media, selectively criticising Labour and Greens, but never looking at lies and manipulations or failings by Key and the government we have!

    • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 4.1

      Thank god someone has finally seen the truth! Yes, it’s all about eugenics!

    • poem 4.2

      +1 Xtasy !!!

    • My God, these eugenicist Nazis are making beneficiaries… er… eligible for free contraception. Oh, the humanity!

      • xtasy 4.3.1

        Yes, what was that saying or song again? “They started with the unionists, but hey, I was not a unionist. Then they started with …” .. and so it goes on.

        This is about unacceptable expectations placed on beneficiaries only, not the wider population. It may be presented as “voluntary”, but in reality there is more to it than the wording suggests!

        And much of what the Nazis did, was initially also brought in with a “moderate” approach, like the work camps to supposedly “reform” the “antisocial elements”, and teach them “work habits” – which later were turned into mass murder camps.

        This measure by WINZ may be “promoted” for females of child bearing age on benefits, as a “voluntary” measure, but the consequence of having another baby while being on a benefit is already, that the mother will be forced to work after the baby turns only 1 year of age. If a “client” does not cooperate and look for work the sanctions of cutting or stopping the benefit will be applied. So how can this be “voluntary” then?

        Anything unreasonable, unjust, inhumane, even while the perpetrators claim it to be only “voluntary”, while it is combined with harsh, punitive sanctions, must be STOPPED right in ITS BEGINNINGS.

        If the German people had in sufficient numbers adhered to that civic task, Hitler may never have been able to do half the evil he was later able to do!

      • xtasy 4.3.2

        Psycho Milt!

        What about your claim that this is “free”?

        Do you not know that most Special Needs Grants are repayable?

        Too many in the public still believe that beneficiaries get free fridges, washing machines and so forth, same as other necessities, but that is a lie. They have to repay advances that WINZ give them, from their usual and standard benefits, which are actually meant to cover other basic necessities, not including such purchases.

        People are expected to repay these things by saving it out of their food money, so to say.

        Only food grants and a few other grants are not recoverable, and I have myself had to pay for dental and other treatment by cutting down on other spending for food and basic necessities, repaying Special Needs Grants that WINZ paid to the dentist.

        And getting a food grant is not that easy, you must prove that you had other essential costs to cover, before you get one, and it is capped at an amount per annum. After that it is only food banks that help out, and even they expect a letter from WiNZ saying that no SNG is available. Even food banks scrutinise people coming to them!

        Get real and HONEST, thanks!

        • Psycho Milt 4.3.2.1

          They’re just giving them a fucking loan for long-term contraception, not offering it for free? OK, I agree that really isn’t very good. They should be making it way more attractive than that.

  5. Zorr 5

    I love those comments – they are fabulous

    Every day there are opinion pieces written espousing the virtues of decades gone by when the writers themselves were children, stating that the way they were raised turned them in to the people they are today and that the results speak for themselves because they’ve turned in to very fine upstanding citizens. These same people then go on to criticize the current generation for not showing enough respect to their elders and becoming materialistic and disconnected in the modern consumer culture. I personally feel that this is all because the new generations raised in the neo-liberal era are being told by society that they are worth nothing unless they are capable of consumption and that unless they consume, then society has nothing for them. You reap what you sow.

    I hope to raise my children as whole individuals who are capable of integrating with society in the ways they find most beneficial to themselves and others and not for personal gain. To encourage them to think outside of consuming and to ask not what is best for them but what is best for us. Saying to all new parents “here, have this small token of cash per week to assist with the difficult task of raising the new generation that is the future of our country” is the least we can do and we should do more. Saying it’s too hard is for the likes of John Key who, when presented with such a problem, can only muse about changing the flag. Or reading My Pet Goat.

  6. xtasy 6

    Re Nazism and history, watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67iOt9133VI

    A must watch history documentary!!!

    “What do you value?”

    What do Bennett and Key???

  7. Camryn 7

    I think Ian might be forcing too strong of a dichotomy here. It is possible to believe that well raised children are a benefit to wider society and to not believe that universal cash payments are the best way to achieve that or demonstrate that children are valued. In fact, I’d say that everyone believes that well raised children are a long-term benefit to wider society!

    Ian appears to be counterpointing to Margaret Thatcher’s “no society” statement which, unsurprisingly, was also a very “black and white” statement where shades of grey clearly exist.

    Long story short… it might feel nice to believe that your particular course of action is most strongly associated with compassion and respect for all people, and that others are uncaring and cruel, but it’s closer to the truth that all people are compassionate and respectful and that different political views arise from that common base. Those who think they have a monopoly on compassion risk blinding themselves and/or just come across as simplistic, smug and self-congratulatory.

    • Ad 7.1

      Agreed. Unhelpful to imply John Key equates to Margaret Thatcher.

      Labour, or anyone, will not win this poorly presented argument unless they can do retail politics into the media better than they have over the last week.
      Apart from red meat to the base, it’s a poor start to campaign year.

      • felix 7.1.1

        When has John Key ever said anything about society that wasn’t a disparaging remark?

        • Ad 7.1.1.1

          Oh please. Reams of social policy. Don’t have to agree with it.
          This ain’t the moment for replaying We Are The World.
          Key has thrown excellent chaff out the Hercules window.

          Labour needed a counter-punch by yesterday, on tv, to get them back on track after the speech.

      • well I never 7.1.2

        I am starting to believe that no matter how they present their policies, values etc. the National machine has thrown so much money at undermining ANY other voices, their power, corrupt as it is, will simply leave any opposition pissing into the wind. Would like to be proved wrong.

        • Ad 7.1.2.1

          What defeatist crap.

          The team needs to perform better; rehearsing the week more, not just the speech, would help.

    • miravox 7.2

      “it’s closer to the truth that all people are compassionate and respectful and that different political views arise from that common base.”

      I guess seeing as Whaleoil has been down for awhile you’ve not had much chance to see that this might not necessarily be the case.

    • Hamish 7.3

      Whoosh

    • Hi Camryn,

      I think you’ve misunderstood what Ian appears to be saying. He is not saying that people who believe that ‘There is no such thing as society’ completely lack compassion, etc..

      What he is saying is that when it comes to determining policy in relation to children the dominant ‘driver’ is ‘individual responsibility’ (i.e., roughly consistent with Thatcher’s attempt to sideline compassion as a fundamental ‘driver’ of policy through discursive phrasing such as ‘There is no such thing as society’). That is, the dominant ‘driver’ of such policy is not ‘compassion’.

      I think that personal responsibility (i.e., doing your best to look after yourself given your circumstances) is a fine virtue. But, when it comes to social policy – especially around families, children and poverty – I simply don’t believe that that should be the dominant ‘driver’.

      I don’t believe it’s appropriate because (a) it assumes that the main cause of economic difficulties is personal (i.e., it gives a psychological explanation for a social issue), which completely falls into the fallacy of psychologism (e.g., saying that rising and falling levels of unemployment are caused by rising and falling levels of indolence in individuals Edit: individuals at the population level, i.e., more or fewer individuals being indolent); and, (b) it has the (unintended?) consequence of creating social division and conflict between those who see themselves as personally competent (as judged largely by economic survival) and those who come to be seen as personally incompetent.

      As Hassall argues, that kind of ‘driver’ can’t sustain a civilised society – that is, a society that fundamentally treats its citizens with civility. Instead we end up with an angry, bitter, hard society in which people are divided into the ‘feral’, on the one hand, and the ‘hardworking Kiwi’, on the other. That atmosphere I find utterly toxic to live in and see as highly regressive.

      For clarity, in my view the argument has nothing to do with particular individuals (on the left or the right) being ‘compassionate’ or otherwise. It’s all about whether or not the fundamental ‘driver’ (‘underlying principle’) of the policy (i.e., your “course of action”) is one of compassion rather than invoking personal responsibility as punishment (i.e., ‘you had the child so you look after it – don’t come looking to me for help. That’ll teach you.’).

      You might call what I’ve termed ‘punishment’ something like ‘tough love’ that still aims to achieve the end of “well raised children” and, ultimately, is based on ‘compassion’. But, in the policy and its implementation’ (e.g., National’s recent welfare reforms) where is the ‘love’, the ‘respect’, the ‘dignity’, the compassion?

      If it’s there it is buried so deep that recipients are unlikely to notice it. And that is asking for trouble.

  8. JK 8

    My maths is not so good, so maybe someone on this thread could help me out.

    We used to have a weekly Family Benefit for children. From memory, in the 1970s, I think it was $6 per week per child. I had two kids – so that was $12 per week per child. I’ve tried to find a comparison online, but the nearest I’ve managed is the Reserve Bank’s inflation calculation for an item of clothing costing $12 in 1970. In 2013, this would have cost $103+

    Here’s the comparison and link.
    http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary_policy/inflation_calculator/

    Clothing that cost $12.00 in quarter 1 of 1970
    would have cost $103.85 in quarter 1 of 2013

    This looks much more generous than Labour’s Best Start but maybe someone else could do a better comparison.

    • millsy 8.1

      I used wages (it seems to me that FB would count as wages), and I got $132.05.

    • bad12 8.2

      JK, the real question i would like to ask, and this question is relevant to all those commenting here at the Standard who brought up families in the era of the Family Benefit,

      Two kids was a small family back then so you didn’t consider having more kids because of the Family Benefit incentive???,

      My interest in the answer to this is obviously as a counter to the ‘wing-nuts’ whine of such programs promoting ‘breeding for money’….

      • greywarbler 8.2.1

        bad12
        If wing-nuts use this sort of emotive term (breeding for money) then immediately discussion on policy relating to fertility should stop until reasonable, informed, experienced and humane people are involved. Which would preclude medical mercenaries with academic and/or business backgrounds. Nothing good can come from people who have that mindset. It is misogynist-laden and anyone using the term as a description of the situation indicates their unsuitability to pass reasoned opinion.

        Good social policy cannot be introduced or critiqued by someone with that approach and attitude.

      • Naturesong 8.2.2

        I am the second child of four born between 1967 and 1975.
        The idea that someone would produce a child to gain an extra $6.00 pw was as laughable then as it is today for $60.00 pw.
        Even so, for a middle class family in a well to do suburb, the family benefit was extremely helpful during times when things were tight – start of the school year, christmas, mortgage rate interest hikes, unexpected expenses etc.

        Also remember that back in the days of the family benefit, there were low levels of unemployment (noting of course that one male earner per family was the norm). Kicking the shit out of the unemployed was not an ever constant meme.

        DPB for single mothers had it’s own stigma that probably owed more to a victorian mindset than it does these days. Though I do wonder if that theme of the immorality of a single mother is not a subtext to the constant attacks on women who receive it these days.

        • greywarbler 8.2.2.1

          Naturesong
          I have looked at actions of Jenny Shipley and her crew of pirates, and come to the conclusion that there is a deep morality prejudice and class disparagement and disdain in NACTs approach to single and solo mothers and fathers, that still now underlies the cry of cost, inefficiency, slackers, etc.

          The fact that they can produce some figures that show this is a consideration in a small percentage sample is an excuse to blanket the lot. They might not bother with facts or figures though. We know from Margaret Bazley’s attack on legal aid that they can just quote some anecdote or reference to some source.

          A word in the ear or even in the air around the ear, of a sensitive National tuned and receiving instrument, is sufficient evidence to give gravitas to extensive law change and ploughing and turning of the policy soil by the good old farmers sons and daughters.

  9. JK 9

    To Bad 12 – two kids were all we could afford at that time (despite receiving Family Benefit – and I had/have friends in a similar position in those days) so I’d say quite definitely that Govt grants to parents to help raise children is NOT an incentive to have more kids.

    Btw, the Family Benefit went directly to the mothers ….. to ensure the money was spent on the kids !

    Should also mention – we didn’t have easy access to childcare either in those days. So very difficult for a mother to go out to work unless she had other supportive family to look after the kids

    • bad12 9.1

      Thanks JK, it would be interesting to hear from other’s commenting here that brought up their kids in the era of the Family Benefit,

      Don’t i know it, with regards to the difficulties of mums going out to work back then, with 4 of us mine had to and it’s a wonder that the stress from the resulting ‘mayhem’ didn’t give Her a coronary…

      • Tracey 9.1.1

        Milk was 4 cents for a pint in 1971.

        I got 5c a week for putting the milk out and bringing it back in. No danger money for taking on the boogieman my bros told me was waiting for me if I stopped at any time

  10. Tracey 10

    Interesting that main media outlets didnt seek comment from the commissioner for children about a policy about children.

    With national now claiming its programme is respo sible for increased bc in chchch is a sign that this is going to be a long year.

  11. greywarbler 11

    This thread is about the Labour policy of helping with costs to families with young children unless they are in the wealthy group.

    It is unpleasant to see the hostility to these families and their children by the self-centred, competitive and money-oriented, exclusive class. Anne points out that Tim Watkins does make an attempt to consider it in a reasoned way. Which is true, but he still seems more hostile to the policy than otherwise.

    Watkins says that Peter Dunne calls Labour’s social welfare a bribe
    This is n example of how people’s understandings are based on their prime approach and we know that Dunne’s political position operates on bribes, so he sees them in everything. His attitude to his useful role in politics is less compromise in return for policy valued to him and more just staying in a role of Man of the People getting good pay.

    Then Tim Watkins enters into the cheapshot comments – the money will be spent on the bloody bach added to someone else’s ‘cigs and lotto’.

    Comment from another man,
    ‘Every second feckless woman in Redfern produced a sprog for the cash. NOT a good way to start a life!’
    Another man, who isn’t ashamed to show his face above this incisive piece of analysis:
    “I’m not sure if they should be classified as feckless or just cynical and manipulative”
    There are other interpretations.

    And then some needed analysis by Ian Hassall, previous Child Commissioner quoted by Geoff above, to which Tim Watkins replies and seems to be hostile to modern social policy with support for the wellbeing of young children and their families. He was Deputy Editor to NZListener wasn’t he? How that once quality magazine deteriorated!

    • JK 11.1

      Yes GreyWarbler I, too, thought Tim Watkins is hostile to the Best Start policy …. hence my attempt to find a comparison in earlier years when everyone got the Family Benefit and there were no snide
      attempts about calling women who had babies feckless, cynical, manipulative.

      Babies were once valued – people could see them as their future. Its really odd these days of falling birthrates that so many do not appreciate them, and are not willing to share in the cost of their upbringing. Maybe these people have just got to the stage where they do not really care about the future – of either their own families (if they have one) or of the rest of humankind.

      • greywarbler 11.1.1

        JK
        I think it is 30 years of neo lib. Twenty to thirty years is a generation. That is enough time to forget, or overlook the important wisdom, culture and experience from previous years And also the forecasts of outcomes for proposed changes that should have been noted and acted to improve or alleviate straight away. Instead we were told by the neo libs that first there would be pain, but then gain, and we were so thick we thought they were wise, and cared about the country, and we could rely on their wise words and all would come right. Instead we have – this.

        I seem to remember people warning about the effects of individualism being pushed. The competitive, me first, proud individualist stereotype being led to believe that they were funding themselves in all their endeavours, and then entitled to all the returns. And of course other people could do the same.

        (But every step of the individualist was being supported, paid for, subsidised by someone else. But this is not apparent, or overlooked.
        Paying for attending university – the state still pays about 70% of the cost for instance.) Schools are all subsidised by the state.

        Any individual who manages to get on without assistance from the state, which should be with the good wishes of the vast majority of the citizens, is likely to be receiving isolationist and anti-social indoctrination, as in cults, controlling religious groups, military and aggression training establishments.

        • JK 11.1.1.1

          greywarbler – yes, I agree with what you’re saying totally but I cannot conceive of any individual managing to get anywhere without assistance from the state because from the very first day they’re born – if born in NZ – they get state assistance. Free maternity care, free hospital care, immunisation – so all those neo-libs decrying a helping hand to parents with new bubs and toddlers are crying hypocritic tears. Shame on them ! As you say they have forgotten what came before . And they haven’t learned their history ….. Shame again on them.

  12. srylands 12

    From the Labour Party website, Labour Best Start Payment Fact Sheet –

    Will the Best Start Payment help to address child poverty?

    Yes. There are about 50,000 children under the age of three living in poverty in New Zealand households. The parents of these children will all receive the full $60 per week Best Start Payment.

    When will families become eligible for the Best Start Payment?

    Funding for the Best Start Payment will be introduced via Budget 2015 and it will come into effect for children born on or after 1 April 2016.

    https://www.labour.org.nz/sites/default/files/issues/labour_best_start_-_best_start_payment_factsheet.pdf

    “… it will come into effect for children born on or after 1 April 2016”

    How does the first statement – “The parents of THESE children – the ones currently in “poverty”” reconcile to the last statement – it will only apply to children born after 2016?

    Looks like the current 50,000 poor kids will need to rely on mum and dad giving them a new sibling in April 2016 (just the opposite of what we should be trying to achieve – the last thing we need is more kids to poor parents.)

    Aside from the lie, the policy will provide most benefits to two groups – (1) Welfare families (who mostly vote Labour anyway) or families on incomes of more than $100,000, who are unlikely to be swayed to vote labour.

    The ones in the middle will be royally fucked off.

    Then there is the 25 Hours free ECE which (like its predecessor) will be very poorly targeted, and, again benefit families on high incomes. The Pasifika families in South Auckland need more ECE centres, and they need high, targeted subsidies (or better 50 hours of quality, free ECE per week). That won’t be possible if you are giving money away to rich people!

    It has been some time since I have seen a political party have a week as bad as Labour has had this week.

    • mickysavage 12.1

      Really weak srylands. There has to be a start date and the complexity of the system means that there will be a delay in implementation.

      Of course if Labour and the Greens win you can submit on the bill and say the scheme should start early because of the urgent need to address poverty and I will agree with you then.

      On your analysis no change should ever be made because someone might miss out.

      Strange, really strange.

    • Hayden 12.2

      Then there is the 25 Hours free ECE which (like its predecessor) will be very poorly targeted, and, again benefit families on high incomes. The Pasifika families in South Auckland need more ECE centres, and they need high, targeted subsidies (or better 50 hours of quality, free ECE per week). That won’t be possible if you are giving money away to rich people!

      You could always* refer to David Cunliffe’s speech:

      Alongside this, we need to expand access to early childhood centres, because free hours aren’t enough if you don’t have a centre in your neighbourhood, or if all the rolls are full.

      In partnership with communities, Labour will fund the development of early childhood centres in lower income communities to ensure there are places for every kid.

      But quantity is no good without quality. This Government has cut funding for qualified teachers in our early childhood centres.

      We think our kids deserve better. That’s why we are restoring those funding cuts, starting with a downpayment in our first year.

      Source: http://thestandard.org.nz/a-nation-of-opportunity-cunliffes-speech/

      * if you weren’t working from a script

    • bad12 12.3

      SSLands, if the last thing we need is more children being born to poor people that is easily fixed by taxing brainless wankers like you and redistributing the proceeds into the hands of those poor people, an act of Capitalist Redistribution,

      Your brainless whine has been well answered previously and ‘Best Start’ as it should gives to those with the least the most along with Labour announcing more ECE centers will be core to the policy with an emphasis on the provision of these as a priority in South Auckland,

      Just to follow up on another of your whining pieces of bullshit surrounding a comment made in ‘Open Mike’ yesterday where i pointed out quite specifically the bullshit inherent in your ”voters run from Socialism” mistake, besides the voters NOT running from the Working for Families scheme, the opposite occurred in fact and Slippery the Prime Minister who decried Working for Families as Communism like the rat and Liar He is once in Government kept the policy in place,

      The Australian ‘Baby Bonus’ and if anyone was going to ‘breed for money’ the $5000 lump sum payment for having a baby would have had them doing just that is simply more of your bullshit as it has been shown that the Australian birth rate didn’t rise by any abnormal rate,

      What happened when the Labour Government cancelled it’s own ‘Baby Bonus’ scheme, who would have thunk it, voted out of office at the following election, hardly the tale of the voter running ‘from’ Capitalist Redistribution that you whine on about, more like the people demanding more of it…

      • srylands 12.3.1

        “What happened when the Labour Government cancelled it’s own ‘Baby Bonus’ scheme, who would have thunk it, voted out of office at the following election, hardly the tale of the voter running ‘from’ Capitalist Redistribution that you whine on about, more like the people demanding more of it…”

        You think Australians voted for Tony Abbott because they wanted “Capitalist Redistribution”? Good grief.

        Your posts become increasingly ridiculous. You come across as an unemployed 1950s style socialist.

        You can whine all you want about the Government. They are looking increasingly likely to be reelected. Who would have thunk that a few months ago, eh?

      • srylands 12.3.2

        “the Australian birth rate didn’t rise by any abnormal rate”

        Good grief of course it didn’t. Why on earth would a payment of $5,000 influence the birth rate in a country as rich as Australia? Is that your measure of policy failure? What drugs (apart from tobacco) are you on in your State house all day?

        • srylands 12.3.2.1

          BTW the $5,000 payment in Australia was a response to the GFC. It was used to buy TVs, boats and stamp duty on houses.

          The Labour Policy will benefit very poor people and rich people. It will fuck off the middle = vote loser. Watch the next polls for the 2% drop in the combined Green-Left vote. Were you looking for that?

          If you want to help poor people give decent ECE care to people in South Auckland and take it off people in Kandallah. Why isn’t Labour doingt that if it cares about “poor” people.

          Instead it is pissing away a fortune on a near universal $60 for kids not even born yet!!

          That leaves you bad12 to defend it when you know it is crap and then to wheel out your 1950s socialist class warfare crap.

          Keep going by all means. Bring it on and you can have another three years of national.

          You are like the English cricket team dressing room – you say “yeah we can do it” but there is no heart.

          Go have another smoke out the back and smile at the neighbours. Maybe read your electricity meter for entertainment.

          • Colonial Viper 12.3.2.1.1

            Oh look a foreign based foreigner all wise on matters NZ. Go away.

          • hamish 12.3.2.1.2

            Fuck you’re a useless gimp sslands the baby bonus began in austrailia in 2002!
            I think wee wankers like you hate the labour policy cos it reminds you that no one would ever want to breed with you. And thank christ for that!

  13. greywarbler 13

    JK
    I think it is 30 years of neo lib. Twenty to thirty years is a generation. That is enough time to forget, or overlook the important wisdom, culture and experience from previous years, and forecasts of outcomes for proposed changes. I seem to remember people warning about the effects of individualism being pushed. The competitive, me first, proud individualist stereotype being led to believe that they were funding themselves in all their endeavours, and then entitled to all the returns. And of course other people could do the same.

    (But every step of the individualist was being supported, paid for, subsidised by someone else. But this is not apparent, or overlooked.
    Paying for attending university – the state still pays about 70% of the cost for instance.) Schools are all subsidised by the state.

    Any individual who manages to get on without assistance from the state, which should be with the good wishes of the vast majority of the citizens, is likely to be receiving isolationist and anti-social indoctrination, as in cults, controlling religious groups, military and aggression training establishments.

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      Correct. A critical part of the success of neoliberalism is the starving out of cultural memory and the creation of social amnesia, replacing societal and historical depth with superficial commercial and corporate values of consumption and hedonism.

      The destruction and impoverishment of the arts and humanities as well as public broadcasting is all part and parcel of this.

  14. captain hook 14

    Tim Watkins is typical of the NEW New Zealand in the process of creation by crosby textor who have a policy of denying anything in the media that is any good and which has been proposed by anyone in opposition to their client.
    Democracy in New Zealand is under attack from payed flunkeys and nobody can do anything about it because of the grip they have on the media.

  15. greywarbler 15

    Sorry folks. I put a comment at 11.24 which went into moderation, I then lost it, F5 and Home did
    not bring it to light. But I had copied it so have just put it up again 11.45, with a few add ons, and I looked for it and found my 11.24am one. Betcha the new one will come up again soon, near JKs, to whom I was trying to reply before. So sorry I’m at a loss to know what I did, except my computer is going slow, and may be getting out of sync somehow.

    [lprent: Saw that. Released it. I’ll have a look as I do this sweep.

    One thing to try these days with sluggish machines is to close and start browsers. I’ve noticed that webkit in particular tends to soak up a lot of RAM and CPU when it has frequent javascript running on a page. Seen it on both chrome and safari. ]

  16. alloytoo 16

    A good way to ensure that babies grow up to be constructive members of society is to encourage the current generation of productive hard workers to have children and instill those values in them.

    Labour’s policy should exclude beneficiaries and be part of extended parental leave policies.

    (That would of course exclude most of labour’s support base 🙂

    • JK 16.1

      Just pathetic – alloytoo. To be expected from a Nat ….

    • Polish Pride 16.2

      Or instead we coulde redesign the society and system that we live in to have the goal of making people happy and putting in place the things that are required for that to happen…

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • EV road user charges bill passes
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April.  “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Bill targets illegal, unregulated fishing in international waters
    New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Reserve Bank appointments
    Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates.  Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Stronger protections for apartment owners
    Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Travel focused on traditional partners and Middle East
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend.    “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says.   Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Keep safe on our roads this Easter
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Cost of living support for over 1.4 million Kiwis
    About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Tenancy reviews for social housing restart
    Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary plan halted
    The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Cutting all that dam red tape
    Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track.  “Dam safety regulations ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Drought support extended to parts of North Island
    The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Passage of major tax bill welcomed
    The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis.  “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Lifting economy through science, tertiary sectors
    Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces Budget priorities
    The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government to consider accommodation solution
    The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government approves extension to Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care
    Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says.                                         “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • $18m boost for Kiwis travelling to health treatment
    The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says.   “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • PM’s Prizes for Space to showcase sector’s talent
    The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Concerns conveyed to China over cyber activity
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government.     “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry
    Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function.  The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Brynderwyns open for Easter
    State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the Infrastructure Funding & Financing Conference
    Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Parliamentary network breached by the PRC
    New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ to provide support for Solomon Islands election
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ-EU FTA gains Royal Assent for 1 May entry to force
    The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union.    “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19 inquiry attracts 11,000 submissions
    Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says.  “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Families to receive up to $75 a week help with ECE fees
    Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Unlocking a sustainable, low-emissions future
    A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Chief of Army thanked for his service
    Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders
    25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government commits nearly $3 million for period products in schools
    Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech – Making it easier to build.
    Good morning, it’s great to be here.   First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning.  I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific youth to shine from boost to Polyfest
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • 2024 Ngarimu VC and 28th (Māori) Battalion Memorial Scholarships announced
    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to Breast Cancer Foundation – Insights Conference
    Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Kiwi research soars to International Space Station
    New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Planning Institute
    Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Support for Northland emergency response centre
    The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed.  “Northland has faced a number ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Celebrating 20 years of Whakaata Māori
    New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Some commercial fishery catch limits increased
    Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-03-28T17:51:56+00:00