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100 academics opposed to league tables

Written By: - Date published: 11:15 am, July 17th, 2012 - 154 comments
Categories: education, schools - Tags: ,

School league tables are harmful to education. Tables based on “ropey data” are even worse. In this open letter 100 academics speak out against league tables.


We are a group of New Zealand academics teaching and researching in universities. As a group we are very concerned about the proposed publication of ‘league tables’ of primary school performance based on National Standards, whether compiled by media organisations or by Government. We believe that National Standards achievement data and the available school and student level contextualising data are so clearly unsuitable for the purpose of comparing school performance that to purport to do so would be dishonest and irresponsible. We also believe, based on the experience of other countries, that the publication of league tables will be extremely damaging for New Zealand primary education. As academics we will condemn and disregard any published league table of primary school performance and we urge the New Zealand public to do likewise.

Current Signatories (names will continue to be added)

Emeritus Professor Raymond Adams, Massey University

Dr Vivienne Anderson, University of Otago

Judy Bailey, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Miles Barker, University of Waikato

Dr Roseanna Bourke, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Jenny Boyack, Massey University

Professor Christopher Branson, University of Waikato

Trish Brooking, University of Otago

Associate Professor Gavin Brown, University of Auckland

Dr Mike Brown, University of Waikato

Dr Seth Brown, Massey University

Tracey Carlyon, University of Waikato

Dr Vicki Carpenter, University of Auckland

Professor James Chapman, Massey University

Sue Cheesman, University of Waikato

Jeanette Clarkin-Phillips, University of Waikato

Tracey-Lynne Cody, Massey University

Associate Professor Lindsey Conner, University of Canterbury

Dr Marian Court, Massey University

Dr Hamish Crocket, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Kathie Crocket, University of Waikato

Professor Niki Davis, University of Canterbury

Associate Professor Nesta Devine, AUT University

Dr Vijaya Dharan, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Helen Dixon, University of Auckland

Judy Duncan, University of Auckland

Emeritus Professor Warwick Elley, University of Canterbury

Fiona Ellis, University of Otago

Dr Brian Finch, Massey University

Dr Katie Fitzpatrick, University of Auckland

Lester Flockton, University of Otago

Dr Margaret Franken, University of Waikato

Dr John Freeman-Moir, University of Canterbury

Associate Professor Alison Gilmore, University of Otago

Dr Barrie Gordon, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Alexandra Gunn, University of Otago

Maggie Haggerty, Victoria University of Wellington

Tamsin Hanly, University of Auckland

Paul Hansen, Massey University

Dr Sally Hansen, Massey University

Emeritus Professor Richard Harker, Massey University

Dr Penny Haworth, Massey University

Michelle Hesketh, University of Auckland

Paul Heyward, University of Auckland

Associate Professor Mary Hill, University of Auckland

Robert Hoeberigs, University of Auckland

Jodie Hunter, Massey University

Philippa Hunter, University of Waikato

Dr Michael Irwin, Massey University

Jayne Jackson, Massey University

Andrew Jamieson, Massey University

Dr Joce Jesson, University of Auckland

Professor Alison Jones, University of Auckland

Dr Alison Kearney, Massey University

Janette Kelly, University of Waikato

Dr Joanna Kidman, Victoria University of Wellington

Ken Kilpin, Massey University

Judine Ladbrook, University of Auckland

Dr Darrell Latham, University of Otago

Dr Deidre Le Fevre, University of Auckland

Dr Frances Langdon, University of Auckland

Debora Lee, University of Auckland

Associate Professor Kathleen Liberty, University of Canterbury

Dr Kirsten Locke, University of Auckland

Professor Terry Locke, University of Waikato

Dr Judith Loveridge, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Jude MacArthur, Massey University

Dr Sasha Matthewman, University of Auckland

Professor Helen May, University of Otago

Professor Stephen May, University of Auckland

John McCaffery, University of Auckland

Dr Alyson McGee, Massey University

Dr Mandia Mentis, Massey University

Frauke Meyer, University of Auckland

Louise Milne, University of Waikato

Professor Linda Mitchell, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Missy Morton, University of Canterbury

Associate Professor Carol Mutch, University of Auckland

Dr Karen Nairn, University of Otago

Wendy Neilson, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Peter O’Connor, University of Auckland

Anne-Marie O’Neill, Massey University

Professor John O’Neill, Massey University

Dr Kirsten Petrie, University of Waikato

Dr Peter Rawlins, Massey University

Dr Karen Rhodes, Massey University

Associate Professor Tracy Riley, Massey University

Professor Peter Roberts, University of Canterbury

Nigel Robertson, University of Waikato

Dr Susan Sandretto, University of Otago

Alan Scott, University of Canterbury

Cathy Short, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Mary Simpson, University of Otago

Anne Sinclair, University of Auckland

Dr David Small, University of Canterbury

Jill Stephenson, University of Auckland

Gary Tenbeth, University of Auckland

Dr Kate Thornton, Victoria University of Wellington

Professor Martin Thrupp, University of Waikato

Dr Trevor Thwaites, University of Auckland

Lynley Tulloch, University of Waikato

Distinguished Professor William Tunmer, Massey University

Dr Bill Ussher, University of Waikato

Dr Jannie van Hees, University of Auckland

Professor Margaret Walshaw, Massey University

Dr Kama Weir, Massey University

Dr Bronwyn Wood, Victoria University of Wellington

[See original for further notes and details.]

154 comments on “100 academics opposed to league tables”

  1. National Standards are seriously flawed and their inconsistent unmoderated nature means there will be no value in their collective data and for the Government to endorse a league table based on them would be unethical and dishonest. Judging by the government’s performance generally, perhaps honesty and ethics are not regarded as criteria important enough to reverse their decision.
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/07/implementing-league-tables-dishonest.html

  2. Dr Terry 2

    They are welcome to my name! The problem is the grave suspicion of academics in this country, plus government abhorrence. (How often do we hear people throwing off at “egg-heads”? This is not so in all countries).If people wanted “intelligence” many more would be voting for the Greens.

  3. captain hook 3

    how dare they say that?
    we paid good money to a right wing think tank to substantiate our claims and allow us to wreck the education system.
    and now people who ekshally know what they are talking about are refuting it,.
    what would they know?

  4. Dv 4

    Spalling hook edukashun

  5. Colonial Viper 5

    Very proud of these NZ acaedmics. Just awesome. What we need, as opposed to the tame intellectuals we have in too many corners of the system.

  6. Dv 6

    Heard Parata (reported) as saying there needs to be an INFORMED discussion.
    Huh

    Plenty of information about standards.

    BUT YOU need to listen.

    • grumpy 6.1

      ….let’s just get this straight……..

      The Government responds to pressure from parents to give them information on the performance of the schools they sent their children to and pay for with their hard earned taxpayers dollars.

      The teachers at those schools (not all of them but mainly those from poor performing ones) object furiously to the introduction of National Standards.

      The Government, having been returned to power with a mandate, again listens to parents and (like Labour in Australia), moves to introduce “League Tables”.

      Teachers and their Unions furiously oppose parents rights to information.

      Now, the academics who teach the teachers in the poor performing schools where significant numbers of students leave without learning to read, write of make simple mathematical calculations, object furiously to parents finding out just how crap some schools are and by association how crap teacher training is.

      …and we should be surprised??????

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.1

        “Responds to pressure from parents…”

        Bullshit – what pressure?

        Sixth in the world currently. You are so full of drivel.

        • grumpy 6.1.1.1

          “sixth” in what exactly???

          Our level of underachievement is huge. On the disparity of education we are pitiful. ….but the crap teachers, their unions and the clowns that trained them don’t want you to know that.

          If we are “sixth”, then how come 1 in 5 leave school unable to read and write andv perform simple mathematical tasks.

          Parents want better for their children than your lame excuses.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1.1

            If we are “sixth”, then how come 1 in 5 leave school unable to read and write andv perform simple mathematical tasks.

            Prove it. Show that you’re not just some dumbfuck that’s parroting Nationals lies.

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.1.1.1.1

              You are right Draco – come on Grumps – but I warn you this one in five lie is another zombie – let’s see your sources. Put up or shut up.

              • Populuxe1

                CIA Worldbook still lists us at 99% literacy, which while much lower than I’d like and lower than what is possible, still puts us equal with the US, the UK, Germany, France, Switzerland and Sweden. And much of that could be corrected by throwing more money at learning disabilities and fostering a more positive educational culture in some economically disadvantaged communities.

          • s y d 6.1.1.1.2

             

            86% percent achieved NCEA Level 1 literacy and numeracy in 2010

            mate, probably 1 in 5 parents left school unable to read and write. After all 50% of kids are below average intelligence, which is never going to change no matter how many charter schools we have.
            stop blaming teachers…we are not all the same, we cannot all be geniuses, but things have been on the improve…
            http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/indicators/main/education-and-learning-outcomes/28788

          • Georgecom 6.1.1.1.3

            Grumpy. NZ does considerably better than most other education systems. Yes we do have levels of underachievement. So do countries like Australia, the US and Britain. These countries all have tried aspects of national testing and league tables. Any difference to their rate of underachievement?

            So tell me, if it failed to make an impact in those countries, how will it make a difference here?

            And no, because Tolley or Parata said so isn’t acceptable. I want you to explain it clearly from your own mind, not parroting something the Minister of education has trotted out.

        • Rob 6.1.1.2

          and you KTH cannot engage in a normal debate without becoming emotional and personal.

          • grumpy 6.1.1.2.1

            ……probably a teacher……

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.1.2.2

            Fucking cry baby. You, Rob, cannot engage in a discussion about our childrens’ education without regurgitating mindless gobshite and demonstrating complete ignorance of the topic. And you probably even vote accordingly. The lies you sponge up harm New Zealand education, which if Grumps here was a bit more informed he might have twigged the OECD ranks (currently) as sixth best, according to our PISA scores.

            So, I don’t feel inclined to be polite to you. Sob.

            And what a fool you are Grumps, if you think my abrasive manner would last two minutes in a classroom. It schools you pretty well but.

            • Rob 6.1.1.2.2.1

              I dont think your abusive manner would work anywhere except in this place, where it seems to be regarded quite highly, thats probably a left thing. Lets face it, you really are just soft & shouty.

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                Squidgey too. I just don’t tolerate zombie arguments that well.

                • grumpy

                  heh, “zombie arguments”…. you mean resorting to abuse instead of confronting the issue eh?

                  So why should we be surprised that 100 of the creators of the predicament object to their employers and customers being able to scruitinise the fruits of their endeavours?

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    deleted – misread Grumps’ comment.

                    • grumpy

                      Certainly “wingnuts” make the best teachers. If she was extolling the virtues of National Standards she is obviously comfortable with her ability and any examination of her performance – in stark contrast to the 100 perpetrators of the situation requiring the need for National Standards trying to keep their performance secret.

                      Thanks for proving my point.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Grumps, you haven’t actually twigged as to the reasons the best teachers are disadvantaged by National’s Standards, have you?

                    • grumpy

                      Come on, it was a great comment – put it back!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Have you twigged yet? Would you like a clue?

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    And no, Grumps, a zombie argument is one which keeps on moaning and shuffling long after it’s been thoroughly killed.

                    • grumpy

                      OK, so teacher’s unions and “academics” whining about National Standards and league tables that are already introduced by Labour in Australia and by National in NZ (where we are about to have league tables as well), are indulging in “zombie” arguments?

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Nope. The zombie argument is that education standards will rise, when they fell when “National Standards” (which are neither) and league tables were introduced everywhere else in the world that was duped into introducing them. New Zealand will be no different.

                      Aussie are far behind us on PISA scores. Why are you setting the benchmark so low?

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2

        Teachers and their Unions furiously oppose parents rights to information.

        That’s an outright lie. The teachers and unions have always been in favour of giving the parents the information that they need and that information has always been available. What they’re against is misleading information such as league tables and National Standards.

        Now, the academics who teach the teachers in the poor performing schools…

        You mean the poor performing schools that has NZ education in the top 5 globally?

        Yeah, just another RWNJ who has NFI WTF he’s talking about.

        • grumpy 6.1.2.1

          So they just don’t like information that’s comparative?

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.2.1.1

            Show me some. NS are neither national nor standard. Would you like another clue?

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.1.2

            I suggest you go back to school as your reading comprehension skills are lacking.

      • Georgy 6.1.3

        Grumpy – do you actually know what national standards and league tables actually are? Your ramblings clearly show you have absolutely no idea!! Why dont you do some homework before you rant and rave

      • Georgecom 6.1.4

        So lets get this straight Grumpy

        Many good teachers and principals from good schools think the National Standards are flawed. They have voiced their professional opinions.

        Many parents voice their concerns about the Standards.

        Despite all the concerns raised by people who know what they are talking about, the Government plows ahead with these flawed standards. They then promote league tables, based on the flawed standards.

        Teachers and their unions continue to raise a number of concerns, including parents right to quality and informed information.

        Now a number of respected and knowledgable academics riase their concerns. The academics who train the quality teachers who work in the well performing schools.

        And you are not surprised about the governments myopia?

  7. Rob 7

    You know, Grupy’s point is the point that a lot of parents feel about this issue. In the paragraph there is a lot of metion of the damaging nature of this tables, but where is the reason for why it is damaging to education or whatever the threat is.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 7.1

      Can you read? You see the word “harmful” in blue in the post? That’s called a link – try clicking on it (with your mouse) and see what happens, but perhaps you’d better sit down first.

      • Rob 7.1.1

        So what they are saying is that they are concerened that the low performing schools will be come marginalised , is that it. Well maybe if they are not performing then they should come in to some form of scrutiny.

        By the way I can read and I was referring to the ‘Group of Educationalists” paragraph. It may help if they actually list their concerns in plain english and then throw in all the emotive elements.

        • grumpy 7.1.1.1

          By “marginalised” they are just using the school and it’s children as a shield to their incompetent professional exposure.

          These are the clowns who are even more responsible than crap teachers. They are the “experts” who gave us the system we have today and trained the incompetents who further stuffed the system.

          Don’t want to be exposed – who would have thought???????

        • framu 7.1.1.2

          all schools are already scrutinised – all the time. All without national standards and league tables

          National standards and league tables will only give simplistic, non standardised and highly misleading impressions about the state of a school and its ability to teach its students – because it only looks at a narrow range of factors – without even benchmarking them to the same standard

          but follow the marginalised idea further – whats happens to a school that is perceived to be failing its students?

          its role drops, its funding diminishes, it finds it harder to keep good staff etc etc

          then what happens to the students who are unable to get to a different school due to issues of transport, location etc etc?

          then what happens to the surrounding community as people move away for good to get their kids nearing to a school they perceive to be better?

          and on it goes

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 7.1.1.2.1

            “all schools are already scrutinised – all the time”

            By the Education Review Office, hence “ERO” reports. Why are wingnuts always so clueless about the basic facts on any given topic?

            • grumpy 7.1.1.2.1.1

              …..Well, gosh, gee, I suppose parents just want to be part of that too…..you know, for their kid’s education….?

              Probably over your head anyway, just one of those who believe that parents have no rights and “the state will decide” – eh?

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                What colour is the sky on your planet? On Earth, in New Zealand, ERO reports are made public. That is how an informed parent chooses a school. Please tell me you don’t have school age children.

                • grumpy

                  see Rob’s reply below.

                  • Georgecom

                    Grumpy, why not actually answer the question yourself.

                    ERO review schools, they make their reports public. Parents have full freedom to visit a school, talk to the Principal, talk to Board members, have a look round the school, get a prospectus.

                    Explain to me how that process locks parents out of making an informed decision regarding their childs education?

                • Rob

                  Yes I do have 2 children at school currently, what about you KTH.

                  One real life incidence was with my oldest. The the quality of basic maths taught at school in year 5 and 6 was an absolute shambles and it all got tragically found out when 2 years of children moved on to year 7 at different schools. All these kids fell way down on stanine scores , well below average national standard. The teacher eventually left and the board got completely focussed on protecting the schools reputation, driven by all these PR concerns that seems to be driving a lot of the educationalists arguments here. The disapointing aspect is that the teacher ended up at another local school down the road teaching the same old dodgy maths. So nothing changed and nothing was learnt.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    “Way below average National Standard” – lol there is no such thing, because for the nth time they are neither national nor standard. What part of that are you having trouble with? Are you sure your children’s learning difficulties aren’t genetic?

                  • Descendant Of Smith

                    Fuck – the PR protectionism is driven by a right wing model of competition and the wasted productivity in the education sector on marketing and my school is better than your school bullshit.

                    How you can remotely link that to any sort of left wing ideology is beyond me.

                    League tables will encourage schools to hide those things even more.

                    A table showing spend per student might be useful to see what it costs for some of the private schools to get mediocre outcomes but of course we won’t get to see the results for private schools will we cause they don’t have to do them.

            • Rob 7.1.1.2.1.2

              Well an ERO report gives a view on a single school, it seems the only comparitive measure in the report is the decile mark, which is not a great indication of performance. What people are wanting to understand is how does the school measure comparitively against the other school choices in the area that are available.

              • framu

                ” it seems the only comparitive measure in the report is the decile mark, which is not a great indication of performance”

                its not going to tell you much about the schools performance as its an indication of socio-economic levels of the surrounding community – not how well the school is doing

                • Rob

                  Exactly the point, without any comparitive measures , deciles are what is being considered.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    The solution is to abolish decile ratings, not add more meaningless noise.

                    • Grumpy

                      I agree with your point about abolishing decile rankings.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Like too many parents you guys seem to think that the decile rating system is a rating system of the school’s educational performance. IT IS NOT.

                      Please try and learn about something a little before deciding “get rid of it”.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Akshully CV that’s one of the reasons I’d get rid of them – by which I guess I mean get them out of the public domain.

                  • framu

                    so why go for a narrowly defined set of parameters that arent even the same across the country?

              • mike e

                Rob the ERO doen’t set the decile of the school stats NZ grades the school by the incomes of those in the area where the schools pupil catchment.

          • grumpy 7.1.1.2.2

            If the school community allow their school to get into that situation, it is better to close as it is only harming those who are entrusted to it.

            • framu 7.1.1.2.2.1

              what situation? the one where its seen as not doing well based on misleading information??

              • grumpy

                No, where it’s seen not to be doing well on results!

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  Results, like PISA scores for example?

                  • Rob

                    Oh great, my kid can’t read and add , however I am being told that he is in an education system evidently smarter than Turkey. Great now I am really reassured, good job chaps.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Do you have something against Turks? No matter. I think you are lying about having an illiterate, innumerate “kid”, but what does your personal tragedy (sob) have to do with the wider issue?

                      Is your child typical? How would you know? Where are your facts? Is there any basis for your notions other than stupidity, prejudice and ignorance? If so, where is it?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Oh great, my kid can’t read and add , however I am being told that he is in an education system evidently smarter than Turkey. Great now I am really reassured, good job chaps.

                      Take some personal responsibility as a parent then mate and don’t put it all on the school.

      • Mark 7.1.2

        Oh, a link to a NZ Herald article, top notch journalism quoting a tame left state funded “academic”
        Scientific.. yeah right.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 7.1.2.1

          And the basis for your opinion is what? So far you’ve displayed nothing but ignorance and zombie rhetoric.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.2

          Hey Mark, as KTH mentions, how about doing a critique of the rationale instead of slamming the person?

          Because funnily enough, with your anti-education bent, you’ll quickly dismiss all university staff as being tame, lefty and state funded. And who does that leave you getting your opinions from? The NBR?

          Dork.

  8. Mark 8

    “but follow the marginalised idea further – whats happens to a school that is perceived to be failing its students?”

    I think the idea is that those schools will be given greater support.. teachers will be financially incentivised to lift the students’ results, parents will be given greater support to assist with this.
    But we wouldn’t want that would we.. the left have a vested interest in keeping people ignorant.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.1

      Wilfully idiotic is your signature MO, I take it.

      “The left” is the reason the children of poor parents get an education at all, and your lies are exposed by the real world effects of the policies you have been duped into supporting.

      None of the lies you just told about “schools will be”, and “teachers will be” ever actually happen in your awful right-wing dystopia. Are you deceitful or deceived?

      • Mark 8.1.1

        The planet, or particularly NZ, has moved on from the industrial revolution KTH, and although your point may have been valid many years ago, it is no longer relevant.
        What is your opposition to performance pay for teachers.. is it that it can’t be measured? Well, I suspect with a formula encompassing Decile Level, National Standard,s League Tables etc it is not that hard.
        Decile funding proves that “schools will be” – at least I guess in your utopia where everything can be fixed by throwing tax money at it.
        You should be grateful that private schools exist where parents pick up the major chunk of the cost of their childrens education, leaving more funds for the not- as- well- off.
        Do you have any solutions that don’t involve taxing the “rich” more, to give no strings attached handouts to everyone else?

        • framu 8.1.1.1

          “What is your opposition to performance pay for teachers”

          you do realise that this already happens?

          • Mark 8.1.1.1.1

            No, where?
            But what is the opposition to it?

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Following the lead of the US education system is a fail. The fact that you want to push us down that road is a fail.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.1.1.2

          You see that there, Mark? The bit where Framu pointed out to you that performance pay already happens?

          Why are wingnuts never well informed? Come on – explain yourself!

          PS: “Solution” to what, fool? The fact that our schools perform so well as measured against other countries in the OECD? Link to your supporting material or piss off.

          • Mark 8.1.1.2.1

            How about you answer some of the questions.. fool..
            Why are you against performance pay for teachers?
            What solutions apart from more tax?
            You are very good at throwing insults, on every thread, but no answers to pertinent questions, ever..
            The local bully boy?

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.1.1.2.1.1

              “Against performance pay” – I’m not – it already happens.

              Solutions to what? The pain in your mind? I’d suggest glad wrap.

              Stop whining about being treated like a clueless wingnut and justify your assertions with some supporting material.

              • Rob

                OK KTH, explain to us all about how performance pay occurs in a school environment.

                This will be good……..

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  It was Framu’s assertion, one which I know to be true. Why don’t you have a wee peek at the Ministry of Education’s website, perhaps do a search for “evaluation” or “assessment” – y’know, just like someone who was genuinely trying to find something out for themselves?

                  • Rob

                    As expected , nothing. Limp and soft and all shout and noise.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Oh for fucks sake. Do you people need your hand held for everything? Jesus wept.

                      Teacher appraisal – current practices.

                    • McFlock

                      Funnily enough, I did the recommended googling for you. Talk about spoon-feeding vs mind-reading. 

                           
                      Anyway, their performance does indeed affect the pay of teachers. It’s just not based on ill-considered, arbitrary, inflexible, counter-productive, idiotic and bureaucratic ‘National Standards’.
                           
                      I am sure your acceptance of this fact will be prompt, elegant and in warm spirit. /sarc.

                    • Rob

                      OK KTH

                      I went to your link and had a skim read, I then searched the doc for renumeration , pay scales, performance etc and there was nothing.

                      Anyway I was just interested in how teachers were paid. I still cannot see any evidence that there is any performance pay.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Rob, don’t worry about it – there are a lot of big words like “attestation against the professional standards for salary progression;” but McFlock’s link makes it even clearer.

                    • McFlock

                      Rob, do you need help finding your dick when you need to take a piss?

                  • Dv

                    Rob
                    From the first page of the doc.
                    “progression based on performance”

                    • Rob

                      Why McFlunk, are you offering to find it.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Not very gracious in total defeat are you Rob? Still, at least you will no longer repeat the lie that teachers are not paid according to performance, will you?

                      Of course you will – you’ll perhaps feel some sort of emotion while you’re lying through your teeth, but it won’t stop you, will it?

                      Have I judged you unfairly?

                    • McFlock

                      I don’t do nanotechnology.

        • Descendant Of Smith 8.1.1.3

          We shouldn’t be grateful at all. It was only ever intended that public finding went into public schools. Private schools and those parents who send their kids there have simultaneously argued for less taxation and for private access to public funding. That’s hardly a reason to be grateful.

          Religious schools should doubly not get state funding which perversely is increasing as religious participation is falling.

          • Populuxe1 8.1.1.3.1

            Religious schools should doubly not get state funding which perversely is increasing as religious participation is falling.

            Why? Don’t religious people pay tax? Does religious affiliation automatically mean you go to church? Are you making assumptions about what and how religious school’s teach?
            Religious schools frequently offer kids from economically disadvantaged families the sort of benefits otherwise only found in private schools – which I think is quite important as National seems determined to sabotage our state schools.

            • Descendant Of Smith 8.1.1.3.1.1

              Religious schools are private schools and the separation of religion and state principle should still apply as it used to. Most religions have tax free status and used to fund their own schools.

              It’s in more recent times they have had access to state funding.

              • Populuxe1

                Religious schools are not private schools in the conventional sense as they cater to a far broader range of socioeconomic backgrounds and have for some time been obliged to take non-religiously affiliated students who are also exempt from religious instruction (although I personally have found that the knowledge of the Bible and the study of comparative religions I picked up at school has always come in handy).
                I agree that churches shouldn’t be tax exempt – those there arguments to be made for those in possession of high maintenance heritage buildings and those genuinely providing charitable services.
                Schools for the deaf – where deafness is treated as a culture – get state funding, why not schools with people of a supernatural worldview?

              • Descendant Of Smith

                1975 when catholic schools were struggling for funding they lobbied and and got access to government funding. They have never relinquished their charitable status.

                • Populuxe1

                  Probably because they haven’t relinquished their charitable work.

                  • Populuxe1

                    I’s also point out that Metro‘s “Best Schools” issue this year indicated that the best performing schools in the lowest decile areas were Catholic.

                    • Descendant Of Smith

                      Depends what you are measuring doesn’t it. Truth takes a backward step for faith.

                      Public education should be secular as should the rest of the public service.

                      Reminder too that the Catholic church set up a network of private schools precisely because public schools were secular.

                      Tell me if public schools are to be religous which religion should they be?

                    • Populuxe1

                      I’m an atheist (but apparently not prejudiced). I went to a Vatican II (liberal) primary and secondary. Science teaching was straight up secular – big bang and evolution. The only weak points were sex ed, which we got the basics of, no contraception, but I personally think parents should be more involved there.
                      I don’t think public schools need to be religious, but some comparative understanding of the main religions in social studies would be more of a help than a hindrance – we live in a multicultural society after all.

                    • Descendant Of Smith

                      I don’t mind a social study historical approach to learning about religion either and in particular the development of an understanding of religous tolerance. That however is quite different from a specific religous school based on any religion.

                    • mike e

                      pop they are probably cooking the figures or get better children poorer families cannot afford uniforms either .
                      In my area the coed public high school performs better much better in fact than all the other schools including the very expensive private schools considering the private schools get so cold better teachers with better ratios and the cream of the crop children from wealthy well educated families the only advantage they get is snobbery and the old boys girls network.
                      1/2 truths and here say = popuganda1

    • framu 8.2

      “the left have a vested interest in keeping people ignorant.”

      oh well done – youve made an insult – you get a gold star 🙂

      • Mark 8.2.1

        That’s no insult, it is a fairly obvious truth to those that have experienced life from all sides of the spectrum, and are able to see through the bullshit, and call those from either side who spout it.
        (-:

        • framu 8.2.1.1

          no mark – its bullshit plain and simple to claim that the left want to keep people ignorant.

          just like saying the greens are all communists

          or that maori are all lazy bludgers

          or that right wingers are all out to eat babies

          its all bullshit

          all youve achieved is to loudly proclaim that your off in the corner with the kids who wear the pointy hat

        • Populuxe1 8.2.1.2

          I love the small of Ad Hominem in the morning. It smells like victory.

    • mike e 8.3

      mark of ignorance
      Another poodle of the right.

      • Mark 8.3.1

        Nobody’s poodle.. mike e you lapdog..
        Just browsing for some intellectual stimulation and reasoned argument/debate..
        Nothing to see here, I’ll move along to .. youtube? whoar?..
        Lol

        • Colonial Viper 8.3.1.1

          Just browsing for some intellectual stimulation and reasoned argument/debate..

          I thought you were just browsing to troll. It so hard to tell the difference with you.

  9. Colonial Viper 9

    At the end of the day all the Right Wing are interested in are dumbing down children mass education while privileged kids get even more resources, dissing frontline teaching and admin staff who know what they are doing, and privatising education income streams.

  10. fabregas4 10

    I’m sick of idiots thinking that deciles are anything at all to do with school quality – they are and always have been a funding mechanism. Quite simply anyone who thinks or believes otherwise is ignorant about education and shouldn’t comment here until they become more informed.

    • higherstandard 10.1

      Fair call.

    • Mark 10.2

      Exactly, precisely.. which is why we need more information. National Standards and League Tables.. and the only ones scared of them are bad teachers, bad teachers of teachers, and the ones who couldn’t even make it as teachers, the Teachers Union officials.
      As parents and taxpayers, we are both the employers and customers of teachers, and we have a right to know if they are any good.
      If they need support, we will support them, if they need discipline, we have the right to expect they will be. If they should be doing some other job, we have the right to expect that as well.
      The real world, that our kids will grow up in, and need to be prepared for.

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 10.2.1

        “The real world” – the one you know so little about? Especially when it comes to the part pertaining to education in NZ?

        • Mark 10.2.1.1

          Dunno really.. I was educated here, my kids are educated here, I’ve done a fair bit of vocational educating myself..
          One of my best mates is an educator of many years standing, I debate (argue like fuck actually) with him.. he states that because he is/has been a teacher that he performs some social service.. more than anyone else. (he now works for a private provider) He votes Green/Labour, spouts about his green/social cred as well.. exploits every tax loophole available (Trusts, LAQC’s) is a slum landlord (preferring Beneficiary tenants) and buys the latest iPad, xBox.. whenever available.
          Maybe I’m hypersensitive to leftie hypocrites.

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 10.2.1.1.1

            I don’t care about your character assassination of your friend.

          • Populuxe1 10.2.1.1.2

            Well that’s a classy way to talk about one of your “best mates” – shame on him for providing affordable accommodation and daring to treat himself!

      • Dv 10.2.2

        One of main arguments about Nat Stds, is they are Neither National nor are they standard.
        There is no effective moderation, so you can compare data across, pupils, time and schools.

        Teachers etc are worried about being judged by inacurate, ropey data that is near to meaningless.

        And the pass at L1 literacy is 87%. That is not 80%

        The other point i would make about those who are complaining about poor teachers, is WHO do you think are doing the evaluations of the nat stds? It is those teachers you think are so poor.

        I agree with Parata who said today there needs to be sensible debate.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.3

        All the information needed is already available. If people are complaining about the lack then it’s most likely that they haven’t actually engaged either their school or their children and are thus a failure as parents.

      • fabregas4 10.2.4

        I was a bloody fantastic teacher and am now a highly regarded principal. I am not scared of National Standards nor league tables. Not for me. But I know that they will do little good and will have a high chance of doing bad things for children, schools, and indeed our education system. 100 of our top education academics agree with this stand, a very large percentage of Principals do too. Most teachers do as well.

        If you want to know about your school – go visit it, get involved. Read the ERO report. Ask your neighbours but don’t mess the system just because you want some poorly constructed crap to tell you something that it doesn’t have the capacity to do and that the experts are clearly advising will only damage children.

  11. s y d 11

    Mark, just for you and the royal we….bring on the teacher discipline

  12. mike e 12

    Mark more redneck ranting
    Under labour our education system went from 14th in the OECD to 4th!
    No wonder our country is going backwards under Nactional.
    They can’t even do simple maths

  13. Mark 13

    From http://www.ssc.govt.nz/sites/all/files/pif-moe-review-june2011.PDF

    “The results of New Zealand education for most students compare well against those for other OECD
    countries, although New Zealand stands out as having a longer tail of low achievement. Those from
    low income households, including from Māori and Pasifika households, remain disproportionately
    represented in this group”

    So it is this group, that then becomes disproportionately represented in later crime statistics, welfare dependency etc that we need to help.
    There are however, many from this group that do very well, and any means that we can use to identify why/how etc will help to increase the general results.
    One of the methods that MUST be worth trying is educational/school/teacher performance, along with healthy homes, WFF, blah blah.
    So why are we not prepared to explore every method and option. We know that throwing more money at Welfare, Justice and Corrections does not work.
    Despite the opinions of most here, I am pretty sure that the dreaded RWNJ’s from JK down, want to see a society where everyone succeeds, and I doubt that most taxpayers would resent paying a little more if it was shown to have measurable effects.. but we need the measurement from somewhere.
    FFS, these 100 apparently intelligent people need to put up, or shut up.
    So do their supporters.

    • McFlock 13.1

      Seriously?
             
      You want to run a mandatory cohort study involving every single child in the country, including research access to individual criminal and health records? 
      Good luck with the ethics approval on that. 
           
       When you want to enter the real world, knock three times…

      • Mark 13.1.1

        McFluck
        No, we don’t need to study every child.. just the ones that (we?) are failing.
        Where you got the rest of your fantasy escapes me.. maybe I need to refresh more often.
        I am sure there must be some reasoned debate in here.. hard to find tho..

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 13.1.1.1

          That you do not understand McFlock’s point, and why it is relevant to your comment, is a reflection on your intellect, or perhaps your unwillingness to apply it. Have a wee think about it and see if the penny drops.

        • McFlock 13.1.1.2

          How would you know which ones fail and which ones don’t?
          How would you know that “educated” people don’t end up in jail too?
          How would you know that “educated” people don’t end up in hospital for the same or even more serious conditions than “poorly educated”?
             
          You would need to compare lifestyle factors between successful people and those cast aside by society. Lifestyle factors in addition to the national standards and deprivation catchment which would be on their minEd data. Police records. CYF/W&I. MinHealth NMDS admissions. Mental health records. Otherwise you’re just comparing the blunt instrument of national standards with the blunt instrument of national standards.
               
          And you don’t know which pupils would be successful vs the others. So you’d need to get this lifestyle data from all of them.
               
          Like I say,  your pithy little line “There are however, many from this group that do very well, and any means that we can use to identify why/how etc will help to increase the general results.” actually hides a multimillion dollar study with zero chance of ethics approval, and that’s even before you target it along the lines of ethnicity.
                 
          You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.  

    • mike e 13.2

      Mark no doubt you supported boot camps as well they were highly successful costing millions
      Creating one that is one good outcome after 3 years just to prove all the overseas research was right
      Boot camps acshually have a negative outcome!
      But it sucked all the rednecks in and they acshually voted nashonil!

    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      FFS, these 100 apparently intelligent people need to put up, or shut up.

      They have. Studies showing the failure of the system you want abound. Everywhere it’s been put in place it’s failed.

  14. Mark 14

    Oh KTH, on some threads you seem to have some knowledge, or even intellect..
    More often, sadly, it seems a case of parroting what you think sounds right..
    Proof that league tables or rigorous teacher appraisal in your educational history would be most enlightening.
    But enlighten me (for once) on your understanding of the comment and response.. go on.. bully boy..

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1

      Oh come on, it’s simple – the data you are proposing we gather would take the sort of study that McFlock illustrates.

      To make matters worse, it would be money down the toilet because we know what the problem is and we have some ideas about the solutions. As discussed in this forum on many occasions.

      • Mark 14.1.1

        No, the data we want and need right now is League Tables, which when used with Decile Levels, and National Standards, will enable us to effectively target the areas that need improvement, and improve them.
        Your links are not only crap leftie bullshit, they demonstrate your lack of ability to think for yourself.
        Further evidenced by your running away and resorting to insult when owned.
        Come on, show us what you got..

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1.1.1

          “Owned” lol

          If any of the above were true, why have education standards fallen so markedly in the UK and USA?

          You still haven’t articulated what you even think the problem is – and you have nothing to even back it up when you do.

          How do you know, Mark, that one in five are illiterate and innumerate? Hint – they aren’t – the figure is bullshit – but where did you get it from? Have you been spoon-fed or did you check? Since I have a new owner I want make sure he’s house-trained.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1.1.2

          PS: “Crap lefty bullshit” is such a strong argument – especially when combined with nothing whatsoever to even attempt to address the points it raises. No wonder they say stupidity is a gateway to conservatism.

        • Descendant Of Smith 14.1.1.3

          But we already know from existing data which students are failing and which schools are having difficulty. We could now, without national standards put more teachers, more social workers, better after school care, more sports support, etc into those schools. We could look at the ERO reports and put support in to address those issues. We could understand whether that school has a significant number of kids with disabilities, alcohol foetal syndrome, lack of parental support, English as a second language students, etc.

          Tables tell us none of those things and simply gives a not very accurate output measure which can be skewed by a hundred things.

          The days when you measured kids at entry level as to whether they could tie their shoelaces and say the alphabet when they started school without considering that the parents were poor and the kid only got their first pair of shoes some how the day before and the parents were illiterate hence the problems with the alphabet resulted in much damage, including kids being institutionalised were a good example of national standardisation having bad results across many OECD countries.

          And if the intent is really to provide more support why are we publishing the tables. We could just take the info and put in the support. We could give every parent the confidence that if any school their children went to had performance issues that supports would be in place and issues addressed.
          .

        • prism 14.1.1.4

          Mark

          No, the data we want and need right now is League Tables, which when used with Decile Levels, and National Standards, will enable us to effectively target the areas that need improvement, and improve them.

          Very funny parody. You have covered all the amusing rubbishy incorrect spiel that is coming from certain proportion of the public, the half-educated, who have reached the highest level of their understanding and are dangling at that point, fixed by the Peter Principle.

      • Mark 14.1.2

        Fuck, if you think that graph proves your point… you need a bit more education. luckily we will have some Charter Schools soon, although even they might struggle.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1.2.1

          Proves what? It demonstrates a strong relationship between levels of equality and education outcomes – one that is borne out by plenty of studies – and your source is what? A big bag of air.

        • Draco T Bastard 14.1.2.2

          Charter schools are, on average, worse than state schools that means that having them will be worse for our children.

        • mike e 14.1.2.3

          Charter schools only take children who doe well anyway and get rid of children who do not perform. to make themselves look good’
          They have a very high teacher turn over because of the way their run. No evidence they are cheaper in fact the opposite is true and the taxpayer ends up cleaning up the mess of another public private fuck up.
          Mark look at whats happening in the UK
          PPP.s are bankrupting the UK.
          Dumb and Dumber bean brained bean counters trying to run education.
          Isaac’s what a joke her experience I’ve been on the board of trustees of my kids school.
          Mark you better f/off back to the centre of independent studies for some better propaganda than BS your spewing out here.

  15. mike e 15

    Mark Act BS you are pushing 1% of people voted for the party that seems to have more power than it deserves.
    Your info is out of date like your redneck BS.
    Overseas right wing propagandists are pushing the same line with made up data.
    They have been outed the latest Education scammer Michelle lee who falsified Data to help her careerer .
    Because Act has done dismally its using its financial mite to bully everyone into submission.

  16. Colonial Viper 16

    Mark making noises that National Standards will allow us to better target resources at areas which are failing.

    Hey, newsflash, we ALREADY know all that, we just need to DO IT.

    You’re just running delays and cover for National’s no idea no plan strategy.

    • Herodotus 16.1

      CV ask any parent with an education background. If they cannot buy into it why should anyone else.
      Re league tables – who needs them Key lives in the grammar zone and even these 2 state school were not up to his NATIONAL standards

  17. fabregas4 17

    I’m waiting for Key to say “Well as for those academics I could get you 101 who would hold a counter view” and praying for an interviewer who replies “like who for example- please tell me the names of say 10”.

  18. Georgy 18

    Wouldn’t it be good if Grumpy and Mark could clearly show what a national standard is for, lets say, year 8 writing, how it was determined, why it is a national standard, how it is moderated, and how, when coupled to a decile level, would be useful info for parents.

    It would also be good if they could clearly show how league tables are actually created, what data is used, how it is collated, and why it is a true reflection of a given school.

    Come on you guys, please enlighten us.

  19. I get the impression from Grumpy and others of his ilk that the education system would perform better with politicians deciding what and how we should teach and assess. We need to remove teachers as having a legitimate voice in what happens in education and we should ignore the views of 100 education academics who don’t know a jot about education. This all sounds like climate change deniers rejecting the 95% of scientific agreement.

    What Grumpy and the Government don’t understand is that of all the determiners of a child’s education achievement the influence of teachers only contributes 10%. Family wealth, cultural background and natural capability make up the majority of the determiners. Considering New Zealand is a multicultural society (20% of NZ children tested for the international PISA assessment spoke English as a second language) and we have the fastest growing income inequity in the OECD, we perform extremely well.

    It is interesting that for many years we ranked in the international top five for education but since National took power our ranking is slipping. With the unfortunate focus on just numeracy and literacy we have dropped in our science achievement and our ranking overall is now about 6th or 7th. The top ranked countries like Finland do not have national standards or league tables. We are adopting the systems of the US and UK who a ranked well beneath us and we are rapidly moving down to join them.

    • grumpy 19.1

      “……the unfortunate focus on just numeracy and literacy ….”

      Says it all really.

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 19.1.1

        What Grumps, you think your vague allusions count as an argument do you? Not everyone is as inarticulate as you are. Thank goodness you have fuck all say in education policy.

      • framu 19.1.2

        not really – you missed out the remainder of the sentence, and paragraph

        try reading the whole thing then get back to us

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  • Cloaking hate speech and fake news in the right to free expression.
    It should be obvious by now but let’s be clear: The same folk who regularly traffic in disinformation, misinformation and “fake news” are also those who most strongly claim that their freedom of expression rights are being violated when moves are made to curb hate speech (as opposed to protected ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • The Physics (and Economics, and Politics) of Wheelchairs on Planes
    Michael Schulson When Shane Burcaw flies on an airplane, he brings along a customized gel cushion, a car seat, and about 10 pieces of memory foam. The whole arsenal costs around $1,000, but for Burcaw it’s a necessity. The 27-year-old author and speaker — who, alongside his fiancée, Hannah ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • To Advance Civil Rights, Oppose Transgender Extremism
    We are very pleased to publish this submission is from Lucinda Stoan. She is a social justice activist, mother, and educator, based in Washington State in the  US.   This detailed and comprehensive source-linked overview of trans issues and what is at stake will be useful for many people, especially in ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Faafoi should be fired
    Newshub last night reported that Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi had apparently promised to help out a mate with an immigration issue. While its normal for people to approach MPs for assistance in this area, when you're a Minister, the rules are different: as the Cabinet Manual says, Ministers must "at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Adrian Orr – The Reserve Bank’s Revolutionary Governor?
    New Zealand's Underarm Banker: It bears recalling that the “independence” of the Reserve Bank Governor was for decades held up by neoliberal capitalists as the most compelling justification for passing the Reserve Bank Act. Interesting, is it not, how the ruling class’s support for the Bank’s independence lasted no longer than ...
    7 days ago
  • Driving Us Up The Poll.
    Rubbish In, Rubbish Out: Put all this together, and it’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that anyone who responds positively to a pollster’s request to “answer a few questions” is just ever-so-slightly weird. Desperately lonely? Some sort of psephological train-spotter? Political party member primed to skew the poll for or against ...
    7 days ago
  • Jordan Williams, Colin Craig podcast series announced
    “Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty we are free at last.” ― Martin Luther King Jr. A long and bitter court feud between former Conservative Party leader Colin Craig and Jordan Williams has been settled, with an apology and compensation from Williams. On Tuesday, Craig sent out ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    1 week ago
  • How plant-based meat is stretching New Zealand’s cultural and legal boundaries
    Samuel Becher, Victoria University of Wellington and Jessica C Lai, Victoria University of Wellington Earlier this year, the New Zealand-based pizza chain Hell Pizza offered a limited-edition “Burger Pizza”. Its customers weren’t told that the “meat” was plant-based. Some customers complained to the Commerce Commission, which enforces consumer law in ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Scientific integrity requires critical investigation – not blind acceptance
    Some people seem to want to close down any critical discussion of the current research into the relationship between water fluoride and child IQ. They appear to argue that claims made by researchers should not be open to critical review and that the claims be accepted without proper consideration ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The shameful reality
    The government has been congratulating itself over the passage of the Zero Carbon Act, which sets out long-term emissions targets. Meanwhile, Climate Action Tracker has the shameful reality: those targets are insufficient:While New Zealand is showing leadership by having passed the world’s second-ever Zero Carbon Act in November 2019, under ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • More secrecy
    The government introduced a Racing Industry Bill today. As an urban who horse racing as pointless-to-cruel, and gambling as a tax on stupidity and/or hope, this isn't normally a bill which would interest me in the slightest, beyond grumpiness at more government money for a dying industry. But there is ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Unlikely online bully, Liam Hehir
    Check. Check. One, two, three, four. Is this thing ON? Hello readers, I logged in last night (yeah, it’s been a while) to mark THE END of the landmark legal case, Jordan Williams v Colin Craig, which (gulp) reached The Supreme Court, in which New Zealand’s most-defamed man was suing the politician he ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    1 week ago
  • The Birth Of Israel: Wrong At The Right Time.
    Before The Birth: Israel’s most fervent supporters set their clocks ticking in Biblical times. They cite the kingdoms of David and Solomon as proof that, in the words of the Exodus movie’s theme-song: “This land is mine.” The majority of Israel’s backers, however, start their clocks in 1933 – the year Adolf ...
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Public Address Word of the Year 2019: Korero phase
    In an unreliable, strange and confusing world, Public Address is proud to present a measure of comfort and stability by annually asking everyone what words or phrases sum up the year that's been – and then giving some of them consumer goods as prizes for being clever or simply lucky.Well, ...
    1 week ago
  • Generalist to specialist
    Both my parents are pretty handy – and they seem to have the right tools for most jobs in the garage and they know how to fix practically anything. A similar story could be told about their generation’s experience in the workforce – being a generalist was not unusual and ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • A “coincidence”
    When it was revealed that NZ First had tried to enrich itself from public office via the Provoncial Growth Fund, the Prime Minister assured us that everything was OK as Shane Jones, the Minister responsible for the fund, had recused himself. Except it seems that that recusal came very late ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day
    Today is a Member's Day, and probably the last one of the year. After the marathon of the End of Life Choice Act, most of the bills up for debate today are uncontentious. First up is the second reading of Chlöe Swarbrick's Election Access Fund Bill. This will be followed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Worse than I thought
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has reported back on the government's odious and tyrannical control orders bill. As expected, the fraudulent select committee process has made no significant changes (partly because they couldn't agree, but mostly because it was a stitch-up from the start, with no intention of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The cannabis bill and the referendum
    Yesterday, the government released its draft Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill, which will be put to a non-binding referendum at the next election. I'm not a drug policy expert, but Russell Brown is, and he thinks its pretty good. And pretty obviously, it will be a massive improvement on the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: The Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill: pretty good so far
    As you're probably aware, the draft bill outlining the proposed legal cannabis regime to be put to a referendum late next year was published yesterday, and has already attracted a flurry of comment. It's notable that a good deal of the comment is about proposals that aren't actually new.A minimum ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Alignment
    One of the big problems in New Zealand climate change policy is the government working at cross-purposes with itself. It wants to reduce fossil fuel use, but encourages oil and gas exploration. It wants to reduce transport emissions, but then builds enormous new roads. The problem could be avoided if ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • How climate change will affect food production and security
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz According to the United Nations, food shortages are a threat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • More bad faith
    Last year, the government announced it was ending offshore oil exploration by no longer issuing new permits. The idea was that the industry would then die off as permits expired. Except almost immediately the government revealed its bad faith, by saying they would extend permits and alter conditions to keep ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Banning foreign money from our elections
    The government has said it will ban foreign donations to political parties and candidates, and will be introducing legislation to be passed under all-stages urgency this afternoon. While I agree with the goal, I don't see a particular case for urgency, unless the government is concerned about a flood of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Reforming the Education Acts
    The government introduced the Education and Training Bill to Parliament yesterday. Its a massive bill, which replaces both existing Education Acts, as well as various other bits of legislation (including some which are still proceeding through the House). I'll leave the serious analysis to teachers and people who actually know ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Bite-sized learning
    Amelia SharmanThere’s no one-size-fits-all when it comes to micro-credentials, those bits of bite-sized learning that can help workers stay on top of technological change.  What’s a micro-credential? While definitions vary, micro-credentials can be understood as short courses that allow people to learn new skills or have an existing competency recognised. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Not The Labour Party We Once Knew.”
    All Smiles Now: Claire Szabo is taking up her presidential role after serving as the CEO of Habitat For Humanity. Which is absolutely perfect! After KiwiBuild was so comprehensively mismanaged by Phil Twyford, the party has not only elected a new president from a thoroughly respectable not-for-profit, but one who ...
    1 week ago
  • Marxist versus liberal methodology on transgender ideology/identity politics
    While much of the NZ left has transitioned to postmodern and identity politics in relation to transgender ideology, there are some very good articles about that deploy Marxist methodology in relation to this subject.  The one below is from the British marxist group Counterfire and appeared on their site here ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Book review: The Farm by Joanne Ramos
    by Daphna Whitmore At Golden Oaks, a luxurious country retreat in the Hudson Valley, pregnant women have the best care money can buy. From the organic food, personalised exercise programmes, private yoga instruction and daily massages Golden Oaks looks like a country lodge for the upper class. Set some time ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Loosening the purse strings
    When Labour was running for election in 2017, it felt it needed to demonstrate "fiscal responsibility" and signed itself up to masochistic "budget responsibility rules". It was a fool's errand: the sorts of voters who demand fiscal responsibility are also the sorts of voters who believe that labour can never ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: How to get there
    Writing in Stuff, Joel MacManus looks at what we need to do to meet the Zero Carbon Act's targets. The core of it:1. Convert 85 per cent of vehicles on the road to electric. 2. Eliminate fossil fuels from all industrial heating up to 300 degrees Celsius. 3. Double our ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • anti-vaxxers in a measles epidemic: so many ways to be untruthful
    “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa over the past twenty-four hours. “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago
  • Is Youth Vaping a Problem in New Zealand?
    Professors Janet Hoek and Richard Edwards, Emeritus Professor Phil Gendall, Jude Ball, Dr Judith McCool, Anaru Waa, Dr Becky Freeman Recent media reports have presented conflicting evidence on youth vaping in NZ. While some NZ school principals report concerns about increasing vaping on school grounds and confiscating vapes, ASH Year ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 weeks ago
  • In pursuit of “Freedom and Democracy”: Forever Wars in “America’s backyard”.
    “America the Beautiful!”, staunch defender of democracy, freedom and… a whole lot of despotic tyrants that play nice with what is called “the Washington Consensus.” America is indeed capable of immense good, but like any Nation, and most assuredly any aspirant to the mantle of Empire, great, immense evil. All ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • November ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: The beginner’s guide to blogging I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Whodunnit? Finding the mystery 1080 testing lab
    1080 is used to control pests in NZ. Its use is contested by a noisy few. A new report claims high levels of 1080 in rats washed up on a beach. Flora and Fauna of Aotearoa (F&F) won’t name the laboratory that did their testing. It has sparked a hunt ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    2 weeks ago
  • Authoritarian Friends, Democratic Enemies.
    What Kind Of Empire? The thing for Kiwis to decide is what kind of empire they want to belong to. The kind that, while offering its own citizens democratic rights, demands absolute obedience from its “friends”? Or, the kind that, while authoritarian at home, takes a relaxed attitude to the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Boris Johnson Goes Down
    It hasn't been a good week for the Conservatives, pollwise.  All major recent polls are showing their lead shrinking.Comparing each pollster's current (between 29/11 and 22/11) and previous most recent poll.Com Res - Conservative lead down 3 points.You Gov - Conservative lead down 1 point.Kantar - Conservative lead down 4 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Interesting
    Within quick succession, Countdown maths wizard and twitterer Rachel Riley, alleged comedian David Baddiel and prominent lawyer Andrew Julius have all expressed very similar opinions / ideas:
    These #3billboards are going round London today, organised by ex-Labour people, horrified by what their party has become. Their principles haven’t changed, they’re ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Damn the Polls
    So, there have been a bunch of bad polls out for Labour, and even the Leftie's friend, Survation, have recently given the Conservatives a rip-snorting 11% lead.  You Gov's much vaunted MRP poll - which pretty much nailed the result in 2015 - is currently predicting a comfortable majority for ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Europe declares an emergency
    The European Parliament has voted overwhelmingly to declare a climate emergency:The European parliament has declared a global “climate and environmental emergency” as it urged all EU countries to commit to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The vote came as scientists warned that the world may have already crossed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Bi-Partisan Commitment To X-ing “P”.
    Pure Fear: Worse than Heroin, this drug’s addictive power was terrifying. People under its influence didn’t drift off to Elysium. Nor did it persuade inadequate individuals that they could conquer the world. No, this drug – pure crystal methamphetamine, “P” for short – unlocked the gates of Hell itself. It ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Government takes bite out of loan sharks
    The days of vulnerable consumers falling victim to loan sharks, truck shops and other predatory lenders are numbered, following the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill passing its third reading tonight. “Too many Kiwis are being given loans that are unaffordable and unsuitable, trapping them in debt and leaving their families ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • New Zealand safer as Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders Bill) becomes law
    A Bill that prevents terrorism and supports the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas has passed its third reading, Justice Minister Andrew Little says. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill is a carefully targeted response to manage the risk posed by a small number of New Zealanders who have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Foreign Minister and Pacific Peoples Minister to visit Samoa
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio will travel to Samoa on Friday, where New Zealand medical teams are helping Samoa respond to an outbreak of measles. “New Zealand has been working closely with the Government of Samoa and offering our assistance from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • New Pastoral Care Code will support tertiary students in 2020
    The Government has changed the law to improve student safety and welfare in university halls of residence and other student accommodation. The Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill passed its third reading this afternoon and details of an interim Code of Practice setting out the Government’s expectations of tertiary providers have also been released. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • New infrastructure funding tool to build housing developments faster
    A new tool to help councils fund and finance infrastructure could mean some housing developments happen a decade earlier than currently planned, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said today. “This new tool, developed by the Government in partnership with industry and high-growth councils, will allow councils to access private debt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Vision to unite the primary sector launched today
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has welcomed the release of a bold new vision for the country’s vital food and fibre sector. “I’m delighted that New Zealand’s major farmer and grower organisations are today supporting the Primary Sector Council’s vision – Fit for a Better World,” he said. “The international consumers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • NZ congratulates PNG and Autonomous Bougainville Government on referendum
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has congratulated the Government of Papua New Guinea and the Autonomous Bougainville Government for completing a well-conducted referendum on the future political status of Bougainville. “New Zealand supported the referendum process by providing technical advice through the New Zealand Electoral Commission and leading a Regional Police ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Next steps for Upper North Island logistics
    In light of Cabinet’s position that freight operations on prime land in downtown Auckland are no longer viable, the Government will now embark on a short work programme to enable decision-making in the first half of next year, Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones says. Minister Jones is today releasing the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Surgical mesh restorative justice report received
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter has received the report back from a surgical mesh restorative justice process undertaken by Victoria University. The process heard stories, either in person or online submission, from more than 600 people affected by surgical mesh. “The report made for heart-breaking and confronting reading,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai a milestone for drinking water safety
    The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai , introduced to Parliament today, is a milestone for drinking water safety in New Zealand and will help improve environmental outcomes for urban waterways, rivers and lakes.  “This is a breakthrough for New Zealanders in terms of providing safe drinking water throughout ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Speech to new direction for criminal justice reform announcement
    Kia ora koutouE ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā matā wakaTēnā koutou katoaHaere ngā, moe maiKoutou ma ngā Rangatira Ko Anaru ahauKo au te Minita mo ngā TureHe Honore tino nui kei roto I ahau No reira tena koutou katoa Today, we are releasing two reports that are the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • New direction for criminal justice reform
    The Government is looking to turn around the long-term challenges of criminal justice by taking a new approach to break the cycle of offending to ensure there are fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Andrew Little released two reports today, Turuki! Turuki! from Te Uepū Hāpai I te Ora, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • New law sets up $300m Venture Capital Fund
    New Zealand firms expanding beyond the start-up phase are set for more support after today’s passage of the Venture Capital Fund Bill, Associate Finance Minister David Parker said. The Bill, which establishes a $300 million Venture Capital Fund, puts in place a key initiative of the Wellbeing Budget’s economic package. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand’s National Statement to COP25
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira mā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Señora Presidenta, Excellencies, Delegates. International action A common thread that runs through the Paris Agreement is the commitment we have made to each other to do what we can to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • $12 billion in extra infrastructure investment
    The Government is lifting capital investment to the highest level in more than 20 years as it takes the next step to future-proof New Zealand. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced $12 billion of new investment, with $8 billion for specific capital projects and $4 billion to be added to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Strong economy, careful spending gives $12bn of surpluses
    The Government is forecast to run $12 billion worth of surpluses across the four years to 2023/24 as the economy continues to grow. The surpluses will help fund day-to-day capital requirements each year. These include fixing leaky hospitals, building new classrooms to cover population growth and take pressure off class ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Priorities for 2020 Wellbeing Budget outlined
    Budget 2020 will continue the Coalition Government’s focus on tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand while also investing to future-proof the economy. When the Government took office in 2017 it was left with crumbling infrastructure, severe underinvestment in public services, degraded rivers and lakes, a housing crisis and rising ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister welcomes data-rich coastline mapping tool
    The Minister responsible for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 (te Takutai Moana Act 2011), Andrew Little has welcomed the launch of an online geospatial tool that provides data-rich, dynamic coastline maps that will significantly boost research and evidence-gathering under the Act. Te Kete Kōrero a Te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Chief Victims Advisor reappointed for a further two years
    The Chief Victims Advisor to Government Dr Kim McGregor, QSO, has been reappointed in her role for a further two years. Dr McGregor has held the role since it was established in November 2015. She provides independent advice to government on how to improve the criminal justice system for victims. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand tsunami monitoring and detection system to be established
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Civil Defence Minister Peeni Henare have today announced the deployment of a network of DART (Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunami) buoys. “New Zealand and the Pacific region are particularly vulnerable to natural disasters. It is vital we have adequate warning systems in place,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • DART Buoys Announcement
    DART Buoys Announcement Aotea Wharf, 9.30am 11 December 2019   Acknowledgements Acknowledgements to Minister for Civil Defence Hon Peeni Henare also here today. White Island It is with regret that this event shadows the tragic natural disaster two days ago. The volcanic eruptions on White Island have claimed 5 lives, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Prime Minister statement on White Island eruption
    I have had the opportunity to be briefed on the details of the volcanic eruption of Whakaari/White Island, off the coast of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty.  The eruption happened at 2.11pm today.  It continues to be an evolving situation.  We know that there were a number of tourists ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Govt funds $100k for weather-hit communities
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare have today confirmed initial Government support of $100,000 for communities affected by the severe weather that swept across the South Island and lower North Island over the weekend. The contribution will be made to Mayoral relief funds across the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Death of NZ High Commissioner to Cook Islands
    New Zealand's High Commissioner to the Cook Islands, Tessa Temata, died in Palmerston North over the weekend, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said today. Ms Temata, 52, had recently returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. "On behalf of the Government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, we extend ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Wellington rail upgrade full steam ahead
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford today announced construction is underway on Wellington commuter rail upgrades which will mean more frequent services and fewer breakdowns. The upgrades include converting the Trentham to Upper Hutt single track section to a double track, with a new signalling system, upgraded stations and level crossings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Defence Climate Change Implementation Plan released
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark and Minister for Climate Change James Shaw have announced the release of a Defence Climate Change Implementation Work Plan, titled Responding to the Climate Crisis: An Implementation Plan.  The plan sets out a series of recommendations based on the 2018 New Zealand Defence Assessment, The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt releases funding to support South Canterbury
    A medium-scale adverse event has been declared for the South Canterbury district, which will see up to $50,000 in funding made available to support farming communities which have been significantly affected by recent heavy rain and flooding in the area, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two weeks of solid rain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech at launch of Rethinking Plastics Report
    Thank you Professor Juliet Gerrard and your team for the comprehensive and extremely helpful report and recommendations. Thank you too to all the stakeholders and interested parties who have contributed ideas and thinking to it. “Making best practice, standard practice” is a great framework for change and the action plan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt pledges next steps on plastic waste
    The Government will phase out more single-use plastics following the success of its single-use plastic bag ban earlier this year and the release today of a pivotal report for dealing with waste. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed the Rethinking Plastics in Aotearoa New Zealandreport, released by her Chief Science Advisor ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • International student enrolments grow in universities and the regions
    International education continues to thrive as the Government focuses on quality over quantity, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. The tuition revenue from international education increased to $1.16 billion last year with the average tuition fee per student increasing by $960. The total number of international students enrolled in New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to Government Economics Network 2019 Conference
    I want to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our national life: the housing crisis and the poor performance of our cities. The argument I want to make to you is that generations of urban land use policy have lacked a decent grounding in economics. The consequences ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • DHB leadership renewed and strengthened
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says new appointments to DHBs represent a significant changing of the guard, with 13 new chairs including four Māori chairs. Today 76 appointments have been announced to complement elected board members, as well as eight elected members appointed as either chair or deputy chair.  Four ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Tabuteau to advance New Zealand’s trade and political interests with European partners
    Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Fletcher Tabuteau, is travelling to Germany, Poland, Austria, and Spain next week to bolster New Zealand’s political and trade relationships in Europe. While in Spain, Mr Tabuteau will represent New Zealand at the 14th Asia-Europe (ASEM) Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Madrid. “New Zealand strongly supports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Statement from the Prime Minister on Kris Faafoi
    “I’ve spoken to Minister Faafoi, who has apologised for his poor handling of this issue,” Jacinda Ardern said. “I have confidence in Kris as a hardworking and effective Minister, but this should have been dealt with in a much clearer manner, and I’ve made my views on that very clear ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Tonga-New Zealand Joint Ministerial Forum
    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters met with Tongan Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pohiva Tu'i'onetoa in Wellington today. The pair signed a Statement of Partnership setting out joint priorities for cooperation out to 2023.  “We welcomed Prime Minister Tu'i'onetoa on his first visit to New Zealand as Prime Minister. Tonga ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Shooting in Kurow
    The Minister of Police Stuart Nash says his sympathies are with the family of a man who died after being shot by Police in Kurow. “Initial reports are that Police were called by a family member to help the man who was threatening to harm himself,” Mr Nash says. “However ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago