1/3 of Nobel Laureates say Greenpeace is “anti-science”, must now embrace GMOs

Written By: - Date published: 7:56 pm, June 30th, 2016 - 181 comments
Categories: business, capitalism, Economy, Environment, farming, food - Tags: , ,

The Washington Post has reported that one third (107) of all living Nobel Laureates have signed a letter condemning Greenpeace for being “anti-science” due to their leading a campaign against GMO crops in general, and against the vitamin A producing GMO “Golden Rice” in particular.

“We’re scientists. We understand the logic of science. It’s easy to see what Greenpeace is doing is damaging and is anti-science,” Roberts told The Washington Post. “Greenpeace initially, and then some of their allies, deliberately went out of their way to scare people. It was a way for them to raise money for their cause.”

Roberts said he endorses many other activities of Greenpeace, and said he hopes the group, after reading the letter, would “admit that this is an issue that they got wrong and focus on the stuff that they do well.”

The goal is for GMO “Golden Rice” to be grown throughout the third world and developing countries globally.

Perhaps it is now time for anti-GMO activists and political groups in NZ to stop being similarly “anti-science” and to embrace GMOs with both arms within NZ agriculture and horticulture.

The world’s preeminent scientists have now assured us that the benefits of GMOs clearly outweigh the risks.

Only anti-science witch doctors and voodoo exponents would disagree. If you are against GMOs in NZ food, which one are you?

Zero Hedge has slightly more skeptical coverage:

In summary, everyone should listen to the elites, no matter what one’s personal conviction is. This letter is not a surprise, as there was recently a call for elites to rise up against the ignorant masses – this group wasted no time in that effort.

Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin has already declared that Russia is going to lead the world in GMO-free agriculture, which will keep mega-corporations like Monsanto away from Russia’s farm land. Putin and Russia appear to be dangerously ill informed and “anti-science”.

Here are a few last words from the Nobel Laureates’ letter:

Scientific and regulatory agencies around the world have repeatedly and consistently found crops and foods improved through biotechnology to be as safe as, if not safer than those derived from any other method of production. There has never been a single confirmed case of a negative health outcome for humans or animals from their consumption.

It is time to give your full to support GMOs – unless you are “anti-science”, that is.

181 comments on “1/3 of Nobel Laureates say Greenpeace is “anti-science”, must now embrace GMOs ”

  1. Greg 1

    https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/countries.html

    https://thelogicofscience.com/

    http://www.livescience.com/21456-empirical-evidence-a-definition.html

    =is the stuff safe to eat,
    and will it be backed up by free health care if it isnt

    =yes/no/MAYBE/mostly/notToMuch

  2. save nz 2

    2/3 of Nobel Laureates say Greenpeace is not “anti-science”, must not embrace GMOs

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      They have kept quiet on the issue. Silence = consent.

    • Yep – a vast majority of da da da… and the others disagree. I will fight gmos here and overseas will support efforts for alternatives. I like most Nobel whatsits think Greenpeace is doing a great job.

    • Phil 2.3

      … one third (107) of all living Nobel Laureates have signed a letter condemning Greenpeace for being “anti-science” due to their leading a campaign against GMO…

      2/3 of Nobel Laureates say Greenpeace is not “anti-science”, must not embrace GMOs

      Your conclusion is faulty or, at least, incomplete.

  3. b waghorn 3

    I give my full support to rigorously trialling GMOs but giving fuckers likes Monsanto legal rights to terrorize neighboring farmers and make the rules is a no go.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      A well considered, rational and scientific response.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2

      +1

      Yep, find out exactly what the modification is doing before releasing it upon the world.

      And if it gets into the seed of a farm that has never bought GMO seeds then either tough biccies or the multi-national corporation gets sued into oblivion for contaminating the other farm.

      • b waghorn 3.2.1

        The day I read about Monsanto suing people when it was their product that jumped the boundary, I thought no wonder American s go crazy and start shooting every one at times.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.3

      GMO is like most technologies, can be used for good or evil.

      It can be used to try to make a bioweapon or increase Monsanto wealth extraction (=evil) or to improve food production or make insulin (=good), as examples.

  4. Xanthe 4

    BULLSHIT !!

    These people are not scientists they are technicians they do not study or increase knowlege they just tinker for commercial gain.

    Actual scientists understand that our understanding of genetics and the interaction between gene DNA RNA and life is in its infancy . No real scientist would suggest that GMO’S should be released into the wild or that they should be handed over to commercialisation.

    And dont start spouting crap about how we need this shit to feed everyone, we dont and thats not why its being pushed, Its about taking control over the production of food

    Disgusted !

    • Little Kiwi 4.1

      True! I would eat organic if I could. I hate thinking about the frankenfood I am eating. GMO also means more herbicides on our food. It’s all about business and monopoly. I wish more people cared but they don’t.

      • Phil 4.1.1

        GMO also means more herbicides on our food.

        Huh? This makes no sense.

        • Corokia 4.1.1.1

          Yes it does. Have you not heard of Round up ready soy and other Monsanto products?

          They GE the food plant to be able to survive spraying it with Round up, the idea being the paddock is sprayed with herbicide/round up, the weeds all die, but the food crop survives. We eat the food crop. No thanks.

          • Phil 4.1.1.1.1

            Ah, righto. I had pesticide and herbicide mixed up in my head.

            GMO crops can be more resistant to pests so there’s less use of pesticide. A little bit of swings-and-roundabouts.

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Depends on what flavour of irrationalism you prefer. Some people hate the idea that Roundup might have been sprayed on plants they eat, but don’t mind the stuff that gets sprayed on organic crops. Others might freak out about the fact that organic crops have had animal shit on them. People with not enough to think about tend to fixate on trivia.

              • Organic crops aren’t/shouldn’t “have animal shit on them”. Animal manures are integrated into the soil, sure, but applied to the crop? I don’t think so. Even “worm rum”, the super-nutritious leachate from worm-medium, is applied to the soil, not the leaf. Conventional dairy farms, btw, are more likely to have crops (ryegrass) besplattered with shit and urine with cows feeding all around.

              • corokia

                “People with not enough to think about tend to fixate on trivia.”

                People with not enough evidence tend to attack the person rather than make a valid point in a debate.

                • Perhaps we could start with evidence that sprayed chemicals in general (because organic farmers also spray their crops) and Roundup in particular are dangerous to eat in the amounts remaining on food by the time you eat it.

                  • corokia

                    OK, how about a study showing, say 10 years of eating food that has been sprayed with Roundup is safe. Could probably do it as an animal study with prescence or abscence of Roundup being the only variable.

  5. roy cartland 5

    Really, one third? If so:

    “Science” doesn’t factor in the ethics of giving control of a primary food source to Corporations. They seem to ignore that starvation is n not caused by global scarcity of food.
    Nobel laureates are as corruptible as anyone else – Obama is one, for godssake.

    They want an anti-science population, they should keep blurting out this unhelpful shit. Truly appalling from those who, really, ought to know better.

    As for keeping quiet, there are some pretty hairy laws around speaking ill of the food industry in the US.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_laws

  6. gsays 6

    well it looks like i can add 1/3 of nobel laureates to the weatherman, economists(haruspices, thanks bill), commercial radio djs and senior mps, as people to take no notice of.

  7. Richard McGrath 7

    How refreshing to see this appear at The Standard. Food for thought, if you’ll excuse the pun.

    • Dale 7.1

      I grow my own vedges and I’d be filthy if Gm pollen fucked that up. But if Gm produce can help third world countries to feed themselves safely then it’s a good thing,don’t you think?

  8. Stuart Munro 8

    GMOs need to be divided into risk categories according to the modifications, something like this:

    Modified with related strain or species ie wheat with wheat or tomato with tomato – low risk, low time to general release. Labelling need not be compulsory.

    Modified with benign but exogenous genes – ie wheat with banana
    moderate unquantifiable risk – moderate time to general release. Labelling required. Food allergy sufferers really need to know.

    Modified with dangerous exogenous genes – terminator gene, poison production or tolerance inducing excessive use, or human DNA – high risk, long time to market, labelling required. In some cases may be simply banned.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Interesting and thoughtful approach, but the Nobel Laureates seem clear that these “risk categories” are excessively cautious. After all, GMOs have been consistently found to be at least as safe as other foods, and have never been connected to negative health outcomes.

      So the only GMO category required is: “safe”.

      • Stuart Munro 8.1.1

        Meh – half of the GMO panic is because fuckwits like Monsanto insist on railroading their technology into the food chain. The technology is mostly safe, but Monsanto are corporate psychopaths who will purse any imagined commercial interest whether their product is safe or not.

        They opposed labelling, prosecuted organic farmers, inflicted GMO food on third world food aid recipients – there’s not much they haven’t done. So I’m in no hurry to let them run riot here. Let the bastards wait until they learn some manners.

        • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1

          So you support GMO technology as long as it is not under the control or direction of large corporations.

          Sensible, and also good to know that you think that the technology itself is basically sound and safe.

          • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.1.1

            It needs strict regulation because, for example, one could modify sweetcorn to produce opiates or insulin.

            Simple food modifications are unlikely to produce results outside the range of toxicity normal for the contributing species – but ought to face some testing in case they do.

            Glycophosphate is not necessarily an unmixed blessing, and pharmaceutical products need to be treated with a healthy respect. Monsanto cannot do that without regulatory oversight.

            [http://www.laleva.org/eng/docs/ReproductiveToxicology.pdf briefly discusses glycophospate issues]

        • Phil 8.1.1.2

          The technology is mostly safe, but Monsanto are corporate psychopaths who will purse any imagined commercial interest whether their product is safe or not.

          How is this any different to the supposed corporate activities at any other point in the food chain?!?!

          • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.2.1

            A reasonable proportion of food manufacturers have less advanced corporate psychopathy than companies like Monsanto or Enron or Talleys. Though not invariably trustworthy they cultivate a degree of respect for customers in part to make their products more marketable. The reasoning of these companies would be “We need labelling to inform consumers of the advantages of our quality products.” Of course Monsanto know perfectly well their product is not desirable, but rather than develop some that are they mean to impose it on consumers by force. It is a costly and ultimately commercially fatal trope.

            Interestingly Microsoft is now gradually addressing the brute stupidity of their customer relations and quality assurance by soliciting customer opinion to avoid the errors that characterised two out of three of their operating system releases.

  9. Corokia 9

    So it’s either ” full support” or you are anti-science.
    You sound like George W Bush and the war on terror.

    Surely each separate GMO must be researched thoroughly before a decision is made about that particular one. It’s not all or nothing.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      The letter signed by 107 Nobel Laureates makes it quite clear that there has never been a health problem found with any GMOs. They have proven consistently safe to human and animal health. You need to stop scaremongering and being anti-science.

  10. One Two 10

    The desperation of quack industry ‘science’ has become comical to the point where it is ensuring rejection

    GMO’s , vaccines , it’s over

  11. Booker 11

    Oh seriously this is so depressing. I’m a scientist. I’ve worked hard my whole life, paid through the nose for university, lived off far lower wages than I would have got doing a different career, on precarious grant funding…. and along come some “I’ve made it, now I can say what I want” upstuck Nobel winners to further fuck up the public image of science. Fucking thanks. Seriously, do Nobel winners do anything other than fly around the world, give keynote speeches at conferences, and pretend they know everything? (seriously, this is a thing, a very big thing).

    I can’t believe of all things they chose ‘Golden Rice’ as a stand-out reason to back GMs. The study describing the results of the Golden Rice trial was retracted. Get this, for ethics violations:
    http://retractionwatch.com/2015/07/30/golden-rice-paper-pulled-after-judge-rules-for-journal/
    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/golden-rice-paper-retracted-after-legal-bid-fails
    …and when they got wind that their study was going to be retracted, they tried to sue the journal to make sure it wouldn’t get retracted. The only people who try to sue journal are scum like Andrew ‘vaccines cause autism’ Wakefield. There’s few golden rules in life, but I’ll say this: in science, if someone reaches for a lawyer, their science is shit.

    So a bunch of Nobel laureates want to wave their fingers, yell ‘bad public for not supporting science’, when the only part of science they’re talking about is GMs, and the very GM they’re talking about is embroiled in a scandal because the researchers didn’t follow proper rules of scientific conduct, cut corners, and got caught out doing it?! Give me a fucking break.

    Seriously, there needs to be new rules in science – once you win a Nobel, forced retirement. For the greater good. We don’t need any more of these ridiculous egos of profs on high dictating to the plebs what they should be doing. That shit belongs in a different era.

    • I agree with Booker. The Washington Post article reeks. Have you no nose for this sort of pabulum, Colonial Viper?

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1

        Your criticisms sound like ‘anti-science’ tripe to me matey

        • Robert Guyton 11.1.1.1

          Given that you seem blind to the chicanery of the Post article, your view about how my comment sounds is not surprising.

          • Editractor 11.1.1.1.1

            Sorry Robert, but you might want to retune your olfactory senses for sarcasm 😉 Chicanery abounds!

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.1.1

              Ha!

            • Robert Guyton 11.1.1.1.1.2

              Yes, Editractor, the “how dare you” was bald enough, that’s true, but as a device for stimulating discussion, playing Devil’s Avocado is hardly necessary with this particular topic, given we have supporters of GMOs hanging about like three-eyed fruit-flies already.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2

      Booker, I appreciate your comments and definitely your first hand perspective, but I have been told that science is a solid rational objective enterprise and I am sure that the world’s top scientists who so totally understand the “logic” of science have not been swayed by this kind of mundane stuff.

    • save nz 11.3

      +1 booker

  12. Bill 12

    These fuckers still banging on ‘the golden rice’ front? That’s the rice that’s meant to address certain vitamin deficiencies, yes? The same vitamin deficiencies that only came about after the avocado trees and what not got cleared out of the way for more intensive rice planting, yes?

    edit – I’m not “anti-science” (whatever that means), but these fuckers need to learn about reality and political context before they spout.

    • Bill’s correct. I listened to Dr William Rolleston ‘debate’ this issue in Queenstown, sticking to the science like a limpet and plugging his ears with anti-siren wax so as not to hear anything from the wider world (Bill’s “reality and political context”). What interested me was the intensity of his disdain for non-scientists. Unfortunately, the ‘other side’ of the argument were not quite prepared for someone focused and deaf, and fell into his simple traps. Of even greater interest was the way the organisers of the debate changed the title on the day, so as to, seemingly, make Rolleston’s job much easier. it narrowed the focus of the debate down to just … the science. I guess he requested that.

  13. Tautoko Mangō Mata 13

    For an alternative view, the pro GMO is very closely linked to large biotech corporations and many scientists are dependent on these for their funding.
    The following extracts explain the issues regarding golden rice.
    1. “On occasion, the better parts of this press coverage have indicated that there are socio-cultural and technical obstacles to golden rice achieving genuine success in improving the nutrition of those with a Vitamin A deficiency. For a start golden rice will have to be widely grown (which means replacing many thousands of local varieties, or breeding the transgenes into each one); it must be made available to the poorest and most isolated (who actually need it); and it will have to overcome strong cultural preferences for white rice (by means not yet known). Moreover, in both scientific trials on humans (Tang et al 2009; Tang et al 2012) GR2 was immediately frozen at -70C to prevent loss of the apparently easily degraded beta-carotene (2). It was then fed to the study participants with 10% or more butter or oil (to ensure the availability of the fat necessary for absorption of beta-carotene). It perhaps doesn’t need saying that -70C storage capability and comparably fatty diets are not characteristics of those likely to be deficient in vitamin A.

    Thus, between its technical flaws and its requirement for very large quantities of financial resources and political will (for plant breeding, distribution, etc.), it is highly probable that golden rice will never progress beyond a nice media story.”
    https://www.independentsciencenews.org/science-media/fakethrough-gmos-and-the-capitulation-of-science-journalism/

    2. Golden Rice is a False Miracle

    Golden Rice is a genetically engineered rice with two genes from a daffodil and one gene from a bacterium which gives it a yellow colouring, which is supposed to increase beta carotene, a precursor to Vit A. It is being offered as a miracle cure for Vit A Deficiency (VAD)

    But Golden Rice is a false miracleIt is a disease of nutritionally empty monocultures offered as a cure for nutritional deficiency. According to goldenrice.org, children under the age of 7 require 450 ‘units’ of Retinol (Vitamin A) Equivalents. Children would therefore have to eat 300gms of Golden Rice to get their daily requirement of Vit A. In indigenous food cultures, a child’s diet normally contains less than than 150 gms of rice, but also contains a range of other nutritious foods grown by women. In fact, Golden Rice is 350% less efficient in providing Vit A than the biodiversity alternatives that women have to offer. To get your daily requirement of Vit A, all you need to eat is one of the following:

    -two tablespoons of Spinach or Cholai leavesor Radish leaves

    -four tablespoons of Mustard or Bathua leaves

    -one tablespoon of coriander chutney

    -one and a half table spoon of mint chutney

    -one carrot

    -one mango

    Not only do these indigenous alternatives based on women’s knowledge provide more Vit A than Golden Rice at a lower cost, they also provide other nutrients. One such example is iron, which helps fight iron deficiency and anaemia. But just like the biotechnology industry is offering Golden Rice for Vit A deficiency, it is promoting GMO bananas for increased Vit A and iron. In reality, GMO bananas provide 7000% less iron than indigenous biodiversity that Indian women are experts in growing and processing.

    The Vit A in GMO Vit A bananas has been pirated from indigenous bananas in Micronesia. The beta-carotene traits have been added to the sticky japonica rice Taipei 309, which Indians do not eat. The feeding trials for Golden Rice as well as the GM Bananas were done illegally and unethically.
    http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php/news/archive/2013/15045-golden-rice-not-so-golden

    3. Also http://retractionwatch.com/2015/07/30/golden-rice-paper-pulled-after-judge-rules-for-journal/

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      This is very interesting and thank you for this valuable info Tautoko Mangō Mata, but it seems unlikely that so many of the world’s top scientists are unaware of these issues. They are clearly far more qualified than either you or I on these matters of ethics and research methodology.

    • For an alternative view, the pro GMO is very closely linked to large biotech corporations and many scientists are dependent on these for their funding.

      For a further alternative view, the anti-GMO is very closely linked to large organic food companies and many activists are dependent on these for their funding.

  14. Tane 14

    OK, I had this argument last year when someone was saying Greenpeace was guilty of murdering millions of people through its opposition to Golden Rice. My arguments were somewhat like this (I can’t be bothered digging up the refs again).

    – Golden rice solves and disguises a problem caused by our economic system.
    – Golden rice licenses it’s crop to growers and I don’t think food should be licensed.
    – Golden rice isn’t yet proven safe (the manufacturer’s website stated so).

    At this point, it looks like number three has been solved. Number two I can live with…maybe. Well, I just object to the licencing and control of food. Number one still holds true though. There is more than enough leafy vegetables, etc… , to go around. The reason these people don’t get any Vitamin A is because of systems, not lack of Golden rice.

  15. Stuart Munro 15

    I think we can safely assume the ‘nobel laureates’ story has been created to bury this:

    Vermont has passed GMO labelling.

    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-to-put-hold-on-gmo-labeling-legislation

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Surely you are not suggesting that over a hundred of the world’s top scientists have allowed themselves to be bought and sold as a simple bit of political cover.

      • Stuart Munro 15.1.1

        What I’m saying is that Monsanto knew this was coming – why feed it out now? The Nobel folk thing probably took awhile to put together, but are a perfect twitterstorm to bury the chink in the Chinese wall that has until now blocked labelling.

        • save nz 15.1.1.1

          There are always scientists who are blinkered or corrupted. Hey, any oil lobbyist can get themselves a few to deny climate change. Thanks guys, you delayed the ability to mitigate climate change for 25 years, just like the tobacco industry. sarc.

          • Stuart Munro 15.1.1.1.1

            I’d be interested to see some interviews with folk on the list – signing a letter may not include recognising or approving all its possible PR uses.

    • Vermont has passed GMO labelling.

      What next? Ethnic labelling, so that people who don’t like particular ethnic groups can be “properly informed” about who they’re interacting with?

      • Stuart Munro 15.2.1

        There’s a principle in law of being a good neighbour. This doesn’t mean that you must love your neighbour – which is a religious rather than a legal duty. But you must not harm your neighbour. Organic farmers big and small do not harm GMO growers by their conservative practices – but GMO growers can and do harm organic farmers by contaminating their crops.

        There is something fundamentally dishonest about not labelling GMOs, or for that matter US Beef with its never tested for BSE risk. “The beginning of wisdom is calling things by their right names” – Gong Ja.

        • Psycho Milt 15.2.1.1

          GMO growers can and do harm organic farmers by contaminating their crops.

          What is this “harm” and “contamination” that would be experienced by organic farmers if GM plants turn up in their fields? And how is it different from the “harm” and “contamination” a GMO farmer would experience if, for example, non-GM plants started turning up among his “Roundup-ready” crop due to “contamination” from a neighbouring organic farm and resulted in a smaller harvest?

          There is something fundamentally dishonest about not labelling GMOs…

          Is there something fundamentally dishonest about not labelling organic food as having been in close contact with animal excrement? If the beginning of wisdom is calling things by their proper names, organic farmers could gain the wisdom of finding out what effect it would have on sales of their food to put the label “shit-fertilised” on every item. It would of course be scare-mongering propaganda to put an accurate-but-misleading-and-pointless label like “shit-fertilised” on organic food, but the same applies to labelling GM food.

          • Stuart Munro 15.2.1.1.1

            The harm is that their niche product, which caters to consumer preference for authentic foods has been contaminated with inauthentic foods which their customers prefer to avoid and will not pay for. Perhaps you also believe you’re entitled to spray kosher or halal produce with bacon extracts without regard to its owners or consumers – doing so would destroy its value and science can not restore it.

            • Psycho Milt 15.2.1.1.1.1

              In other words, the wind might ruin their magic woo. That’s not a basis from banning people from planting particular crops on their own land.

              • Stuart Munro

                Rule from Rylands & Fletcher:

                Any person who brings on to their land or accumulates there a thing that, if it escapes, will cause damage to their neighbour is absolutely liable for the consequences of that harm.

                If I have a lucrative mystic factory bottling magic woo that’s my business – as long as my customers are happy. Need not be religious either – Wagyu beef or Songi mushrooms or Champange – contaminate any of them at your peril.

                But Monsanto have been running it the other way – prosecuting organic farmers whose crops were ruined by GMO contamination for stealing their wind disseminated unwanted product. Vexacious much!

                • What an individual corporation does or doesn’t do is irrelevant to the question of whether GM is a reasonable approach to food production or not. There’s also a question as to whether the term “farmers” plural is applicable in the context of “prosecution” in your comment and what the circumstances of the prosecution were.

                  Leaving that aside: would you be happy for organic farmers to be held to account for “contaminating” a neighbouring farm’s GM crop with low-yield, non-Roundup-ready plants? If not, why not?

          • Robert Guyton 15.2.1.1.2

            “Is there something fundamentally dishonest about not labelling organic food as having been in close contact with animal excrement?”
            Surely, you jest. Perhaps, like CV, you are playing the avocado.
            All stock farming in New Zealand is carried out “in close contact with animal excrement”
            Do you propose those farmers lable their product thus? Fonterra will be delighted to discuss your proposal with you. You argument is faecetious.

            • Psycho Milt 15.2.1.1.2.1

              Do you propose those farmers lable their product thus?

              I don’t. That’s the point. Labelling of food for bullshit propaganda reasons is pointless of stupid.

      • Robert Guyton 15.2.2

        “Vermont has passed GMO labelling.”

        “What next?”

        New Hampshire.

  16. Corokia 16

    Are Greenpeace so powerful that they are all that’s standing on the way of GMOs?

  17. Puckish Rogue 17

    Some of the arguments about this article sound familiar to climate change deniers 🙂

    *Disclaimer alert:

    I believe climate change is something that is natural and will always happen and that the climate change that is happening now is being made worse by man made pollution

    I believe that vaccination is good and should be encouraged/mandatory for all those that can safely do so (allergies) and that religious beliefs should not over ride the benefits of immunisation

    I believe fluoridation is good and helps save teeth especially in poorer communities

    I believe the addition of iodine to salt is good

    I don’t believe chem trails are the work of the government (any government) in spreading chemicals to the population

    🙂

    • Andre 17.1

      Y’know Puckish, spending some time on SkepticalScience’s website would do wonders for your education and understanding.

      http://www.skepticalscience.com/

      Otherwise, outstanding derail attempt.

      • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1

        Well you know sometimes you just gotta make a stand and say what you believe 🙂

        • Stuart Munro 17.1.1.1

          Yep – but as a non-scientist who has neither read nor performed any tests of GM products your opinion falls on the wrong side of Hippocrates’ test:

          “There are two kinds of learning, fact and opinion. One increases knowledge, the other increases ignorance.”

          • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1.1.1

            You are right however I feel that if one is ignorant then its better (on probabilities) to lean towards science then to lean the other way

            • Stuart Munro 17.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes, appeals to authority are so much more ‘sciencey’ than sampling and observation – you have uncovered a great truthiness.

              • Puckish Rogue

                True true, so I guess from now on you’ll be pointing out to everyone on here that expresses an opinion on scientific matters that if they aren’t scientists then they’re ignorant?

                • Stuart Munro

                  A reasonable proportion of the people here are scientists – they tend to migrate to the political left due to exposure to and respect for accuracy. When the statistical confidence of Key’s assertions became less than chance he lost the science crowd forever.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    So when a subject on here comes up that involves science you’ll be asking people posting on it if they’re scientists?

                    Otherwise they’re ignorant correct?

                    • Stuart Munro

                      One can tell whether they’re in the ball park by the content of their responses PR – not everyone is fooled by pretenders like Dawkins:

                      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/why-richard-dawkins-is-no-scientist-the-survival-of-the-least-selfish-and-what-ants-can-tell-us-9849956.html

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      No no no Stuart stay strong, as you said:

                      but as a non-scientist who has neither read nor performed any tests of GM products your opinion falls on the wrong side of Hippocrates’ test:

                      “There are two kinds of learning, fact and opinion. One increases knowledge, the other increases ignorance.”

                      So unless someone is a scientist and/or read or preformed any tests on GM products you should go through this entire thread and ask every person if they’re scientists and let them know that they’re ignorant if they’re not

                      I await you telling most of the posters on here and in future posts, that they’re ignorant

                • Weaseling away the hours…

    • Roflcopter 17.2

      I don’t believe chem trails are the work of the government (any government) in spreading chemicals to the population

      They’re laying lines of coke for Jesus to snort.

      • Puckish Rogue 17.2.1

        That might in fact be the single best comment I’ve read on this site this year. People were looking at me strangely after the snort I just made reading that.

  18. Andre 18

    For someone who is normally a somewhat uncritical dairy booster, Rowarth’s Pundit piece is pretty balanced.
    http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/pure-profit-even-if-pure-science-says-its-safe

    To me, the blanket no-GMO position is really unhelpful black-and-white thinking. Particularly when you consider the alternatives that are apparently acceptable. If you want to scare yourself, look up “mutation breeding”. If there’s a technology likely to let really nasty characteristics loose in the wild, inducing random mutations across the entire genome is it. Who knows what hidden mutations have been induced as well as the characteristics tested for? We’ve already had at least one episode of that, with the mutation-bred herbicide-tolerant swedes that poisoned a bunch of livestock a couple of years ago. That apparently easily passed through the regulatory approval process. It’s under-appreciated how fucked-up the genomes of conventionally-bred crops are, what with doubled-up chromosomes and all.

    A more balanced view would look at the changes in the entire organism, how those changes were achieved, and the risks of those novel characteristics transferring to other organisms.

    For instance, a common technique for engineering bacteria is to inject a new plasmid into the cell. Which also happens to be how pathogens commonly swap antibiotic resistance with each other. So that’s a really risky technique. But as far as I can tell, a newer technique (CRISPR) directly edits the genome much more precisely in a more stable, difficult to transfer part of its DNA. So it’s a much lower risk of “getting loose”.

    What the modified characteristic is and what effects it might have in the wild are also important considerations. The hazards of terminator genes, herbicide resistance, and Bt production are obvious. But it’s not so obvious that there’s significant risk from a plant that simply produces a bit more lipids, which is one of the benefits of the HME ryegrass.

    So yes, it would be really helpful if Greenpeace (and our local Greens) got a bit more balanced and nuanced in their views on GMOs, and other organisms modified by older, more random techniques..

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1

      In their response, among other things, Greenpeace invoke reality:

      In response to the letter, Wilhelmina Pelegrina, a campaigner for Greenpeace Southeast Asia told The Post that the organization was not blocking golden rice, as the initiative “has failed as a solution and isn’t currently available for sale, even after more than 20 years of research.”

      “As admitted by the International Rice Research Institute, it has not been proven to actually address vitamin A deficiency. So to be clear, we are talking about something that doesn’t even exist,”

      It seems Nobel laureates, as individuals, might be just as susceptible to a good story as the next person.

      I guess that must be why the scientific method involves peer review or something.

  19. save nz 19

    For a scientific experiment get yourselves some fresh vine tomatoes in the packet from the supermarket. Then wait and see how long it takes to decompose the tomatoes. You will be surprised. Compare with freshly grown tomatoes out of your garden.

    In Europe they use a gas to store fresh produce in, the products look great, problem is, when they tested the nutrient value of the products that looked fresh but would have normally decomposed they found there were no vitamins left in the food. Essentially consumers were fooled into eating rotten food that although did not make them sick, did not give them the nutrient value of the food either.

    Wonder why people are getting sicker?

    Food is no longer produced for the mass market for food, more a way for supermarkets and giant agri firms to make maximum profit, longer shelf lives and looking better. Taste and vitamin content are secondary apart from certain products which then tend to be more expensive, i.e. for richer people able to afford them. A two tier system for food nutrition.

    There is nothing wrong with decent science but most people can see we might be going too far ethically in some areas. Yep we can make a women who is 60 have a baby or have 8 babies at once, yep we can manipulate genes so that we can choose to remove disabilities or the sex of a baby, we can make transgenic (GM) plants and animals. But should we? And who takes responsibility if it all goes wrong?

    The sad thing, is that NZ is known around the world for quality food with high standards, it is a shame under trade agreements and the sale of our land and reputation that goes with it, this becomes another factor to be manipulated for someone else’s profit to people who are forced or tricked into having no choice.

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      I bought a couple of plums from the supermarket more than 2 months ago. They tasted shit. I left them in the bowl. They are still there and they still look 90% fresh.

      • save nz 19.1.1

        Yep, I agree. Fruit and Veg, has now joined the fast food industry in their quest for longer shelf life and killing germs (sounds good but also kills the nutrients too).

        Just bought a pineapple completely rotten when cut from the supermarket. Also I can’t be bothered taking it back – the time and energy of finding the receipt, and going back to complain about it, is not worth the hassle. They get away with bad food.

        I get an organic box delivered although you have the courier journey, the produce is fresh and local and from a small local business. But if you are on a limited income what do you do?

      • Stuart Munro 19.1.2

        Many plums taste not so good not because of the everpresent evil machinations of PR and his perfidious corporate masters (though they would spoil them if they could) but because the heaviest cropping cultivars were originally developed for fermentation.

  20. save nz 20

    I also have a question for CV. Who are you going to vote for in the next election? You don’t seem to like the Greens even though your political voice is quite similar to them but you seem to hate the “Green” policies in the Greens, you hate Labour for betraying the ‘working class’, I can’t see you voting Winston Peters, and not sure you position on Mana.

    Therefore are you going to vote National next election against everything you seem to believe in or not vote? Or forgive Labour and vote for them?

    Or undecided?

    • ACT might be a bit tame for someone with CV’s antipathy toward the world and it’s people, so probably the Libertarians who share his dismissive attitudes.

      • save nz 20.1.1

        Actually I think CV can raise some valid points politically, but I don’t agree with his views on the environmental issues.

        I’m just intrigued where he will go with his political vote, if he decides to answer.

        • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1

          hi save nz, I’ll turn up to vote certainly – too much fun on the day not to. Probably vote Greens or NZ First. Or a vote on some other long shot third party like Democrats for Social Credit or Mana.

  21. KJT 21

    Happy for people to grow GM food.

    So long as they sign up to 100% personal and financial liability for any harm it causes!

    Soon find out then if claims of safety are correct.

    The biggest problem with GMO’s and other proprietary organisms at present is the monopoly it gives to large agricultural mono-cultures and the reliance on pesticides, which are as potentially harmful as GMO’s.

    • KJT is describing important aspects of the wider world that scientists who argue for GMOs seem blissfully unaware of.
      ’cause, science.

    • Colonial Viper 21.2

      So long as they sign up to 100% personal and financial liability for any harm it causes!

      Devil’s advocate here – if a GMO were to permanently damage NZ’s pasture land (very very unlikely really as these top scientists have assured us) what good would this “100% personal and financial liability” serve? It’d be like compensating an Afghan family with US$500 for the death of all their children via drone strike.

      • KJT 21.2.1

        Yes. But if there is the slightest possibility that corporate managers, boards and shareholders will be held personally responsible for any risk, watch the retreat from GMO’s unless they are convinced of their safety.

        Note the panic and papering their arses with procedures going on amoungst the same people now there .

      • KJT 21.2.2

        Yes. But if there is the slightest possibility that corporate managers, boards and shareholders will be held personally responsible for any risk, watch the retreat from GMO’s unless they are convinced of their safety.

        Note the panic, and papering their arses with procedures, going on now they have some personal responsibility for workplace safety.

        As usual. “The party of personal responsibility do not take responsibility for anything”.

      • Psycho Milt 21.2.3

        Devil’s advocate here – if a GMO were to permanently damage NZ’s pasture land (very very unlikely really as these top scientists have assured us) what good would this “100% personal and financial liability” serve?

        Along similar lines, if an organically-farmed organism were to permanently damage NZ’s pasture land (very very unlikely as these top organic farmers have assured us), what good would “100% personal and financial liability” serve?

  22. It is time to give your full to support GMOs – unless you are “anti-science”, that is.

    Well, yes. Feel free to engage in political battles over how GMOs are used, but opposition to genetic modification in principle definitely is “anti-science,” and Greenpeace definitely are guilty of it.

    • Editractor 22.1

      Are they? From their website it looks like they are opposed specifically to the release of GMOs into the environment because of a lack of scientific understanding on their impact. I wouldn’t regard that as opposition in principle, especially as it doesn’t encompass medical research and treatment – http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/agriculture/problem/genetic-engineering/

      • Psycho Milt 22.1.1

        Yes, they are. Here’s what they say:

        Genetic engineering enables scientists to create plants, animals and micro-organisms by manipulating genes in a way that does not occur naturally.

        Ordinary old cross-breeding has enabled us to create plants, animals and micro-organisms in ways that would not occur naturally. None of those organic vegetables Greenpeace loves came into existence naturally. Opposing things because they’re “unnatural” is anti-science.

        These genetically modified organisms (GMOs) can spread through nature and interbreed with natural organisms, thereby contaminating non ‘GE’ environments and future generations in an unforeseeable and uncontrollable way.

        Interbreeding is not “contaminating,” unless you’re some kind of racial purity nutcase. And the entire biomass of the planet develops in an “unforeseeable and uncontrollable way” – there aren’t any options for imposing planning and order on it.

        Their release is ‘genetic pollution’ and is a major threat because GMOs cannot be recalled once released into the environment.

        This is about as useful as people declaring wind farms “visual pollution” – your personal tastes don’t determine what constitutes pollution. And the fact that GMOs can’t be recalled once released into the environment is irrelevant in the absence of persuasive evidence that harm results from them being released into the environment.

        • Editractor 22.1.1.1

          Ordinary old cross-breeding has enabled us to create plants, animals and micro-organisms in ways that would not occur naturally.

          Cross-breeding occurs between sexually compatible organisms so could indeed occur naturally. While not necessarily impossible, the insertion of genes from non-native organisms is much less likely to occur.

          And the entire biomass of the planet develops in an “unforeseeable and uncontrollable way” – there aren’t any options for imposing planning and order on it.

          It could be argued that the rate at which the biomass changes at least enables those changes to be managed. Less likely to be the case with suddenly released GMOs.

          And the fact that GMOs can’t be recalled once released into the environment is irrelevant in the absence of persuasive evidence that harm results from them being released into the environment.

          And there we get to the nub. The sentences you have picked are explaining the basis of their stated belief: that “GMOs should not be released into the environment since there is not an adequate scientific understanding of their impact on the environment and human health.”

          That statement strikes me as their real position – they want more scientific evidence as to their safety before release. Asking for scientific evidence is not anti-science. In contrast, releasing a GMO into the environment and then asking others to provide evidence that it is bad, despite then maybe not being able to do anything about it, seems the height of stupidity. Pharmaceutical agents have to go through rigorous safety testing before being released onto the market (and can still cause problems), so why should GMOs be any different? Because conducting such tests in such a complex thing as a biome would be too difficult and/or expensive? Yes, very scientific.

          • Psycho Milt 22.1.1.1.1

            Cross-breeding occurs between sexually compatible organisms so could indeed occur naturally.

            There’s no inherent good or inherent safety protection in organisms being sexually compatible. Also, mutations occur naturally countless times a day without us requiring legions of safety inspectors to put a stamp of approval on them.

            …the insertion of genes from non-native organisms is much less likely to occur.

            It’s not common in GE these days either, since CRISPR gives good results using the existing genome.

            That statement strikes me as their real position – they want more scientific evidence as to their safety before release. Asking for scientific evidence is not anti-science.

            In principle it isn’t. However, in practice Greenpeace are demanding that scientists prove a negative – researchers keep carrying out ever-more studies, trials etc and no amount of them will ever be enough to satisfy anti-GMO activists, who at the same time don’t demand that organic farmers, for example, conclusively prove that no harm can possibly come from organically-farmed organisms.

            • Editractor 22.1.1.1.1.1

              It’s not common in GE these days either, since CRISPR gives good results using the existing genome.

              You’re going to have to clarify for me what you mean by this. In my understanding, CRISPR is a system for precision genome editing using guide RNAs. It can’t put into a genome what isn’t already there.

              • I meant that using CRISPR there’s a lot more focus on switching on or off sequences that are already present in an organism’s genome, rather than trying to paste in sequences from completely different organisms.

            • Editractor 22.1.1.1.1.2

              As I mentioned above, proving a negative is exactly what pharmaceutical companies have to do – prove that a drug does not cause “excessive” morbidity or mortality – to obtain market access. Why should different rules apply to GMOs? You seem to accept, however, that a lack of evidence is evidence of benignness. To be completely dispassionate, you could say that if someone dies from taking a prescription drug, at least the problem has been contained, which wouldn’t necessarily be the case for a GMO in the wild.

              I don’t get your argument about organic food. Assume a genetically identical non-GMO grown with and without pesticides: the one without has to prove it is safe?

              • A GM food plant is food, not medicine.

                My argument about organic food is that proving a food is “safe” is fairly straightforward. Proving that no conceivable harm can come from a food under any circumstances is not, whether that food is GM or organic. There’s no basis for demanding proof of a negative from one but not the other.

    • gsays 22.2

      be fair to say the principle in the release/use of gmos, is “pro profit’.

      • Stuart Munro 22.2.1

        Pro large corporate profit and anti small organic profit.

      • McFlock 22.2.2

        at the moment, yes, but that’s a result of global capitalism being entrenched in bullshit IP laws, not genetic modification as such.

        • gsays 22.2.2.1

          in terms of genetic modification in the food supply i would suggest that $ is the start and the end of principles.

          organic growing tends to have a more holistic view (soil, plant, consumer).

          weren’t monsanto the crowd that, in the ’70s, put it about that roundup was neutral after 15 mins exposure to the air?

          • McFlock 22.2.2.1.1

            I could believe that about monsanto.

            But don’t kid yourself about organics – some of the most selfish people I’ve ever encountered have been holistic hippies.

            As for $$, that’s the principle of capitalism: GM just makes it easier to patent the outcomes of the research, alongside boosting crop yields and hardiness etc.

            • gsays 22.2.2.1.1.1

              yes, i recognize the selfish hippy type too.

              my grievance with ge,gmo,etc is unintended consequences, and perhaps generations down the line. while they keep banking their profits today.

              by eluding to monsanto and their roundup assertion, as shown above by stuart, glycophate toxins are showing up in umbilical cords and can cross the placenta.

              but nothing to see here..monsanto/fda say it’s ok.

              • McFlock

                Ok, so the question becomes “what’s the harm”?

                Followed by “was it detected early on, or should it have been?”

                If we do no development of anything, people will starve. The job is to maximise the good while minimising and being honest about the bad.

                • gsays

                  By harm I assume you are talking about toxins in umbilical cord and crossing placenta, well the least harmful aspect is that it showed us Monsanto/fda are liars.

                  Who knows what other harm is caused by this.

                  As to developing(biggering?), the problem with food is distribution, not quantity.

                  • McFlock

                    you came forward with a story about stuff being detected in umbilical cords.

                    So assuming that this is true, I asked “what’s the harm?”

                    And you’re all “who knows?”

                    Well, I guess nobody at this stage. Get back to me if that changes – there’s a huge difference between “detectable quantity” and “harmful quantity”, as we’re discovering with the p-contamination gravy train.

                    As for food issues, shortcomings in distribution can be compensated for by production. Given the hand we’ve been dealt at this point in time, how would you play it?

                • “If we do no development of anything, people will starve.”

                  Humans have done plenty of development of plants since hunter and gatherer times – when is enough, enough? Have we not already a plethora of food plants? It’s the culture that needs “development” and that’s largely about a re-think, not an endless search for the new. We can feed ourselves with what we have got. Who seeks to gain from the development of new food plants?
                  Eh?

                  • McFlock

                    There is no endpoint.
                    There’s no endpoint to human evolution or to social change. To assume that we’ve reached an endpoint in developing our food supply is foolhardy.

                    Yes, we need to change the global capitalist system. That isn’t an argument against GM food.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      yes there is an end point to human evolution and I’m picking that we are it.

                    • McFlock

                      is that what the intrinsic intelligence of the universe is telling you to tell us?

                  • Stuart Munro

                    We will of course continue to develop things – but Monsanto has hit upon a relatively poor technology for enhancing food plants because the testing required to assure its more adventurous new products are safe is similar to that for medical products. The smart thing would be not to concentrate on food GMOs, but drugs or enzymes; and textiles or other nonconsumables like latex. Monsanto are like an inventor who, having discovered the laser, insists on trying to weaponise it instead of growing improbably rich using it for making computer drives.

                    • … the testing required to assure its more adventurous new products are safe is similar to that for medical products.

                      That requirement isn’t a practical one dictated by risks inherent in the product, it’s a bullshit requirement consisting of regulations prompted by scaremongering. The comparison with scaremongering about houses “contaminated” by having someone smoke P in them at some point is a useful one.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      82% of US people believe that labelling should be compulsory so that they can make informed consumption choices themselves. You have a nearly perfect right to eat any damned thing you choose, but not to make others eat it.

    • KJT 22.3

      Who said Greenpeace are objecting totally to GM.

      Opposition to scientific experiments being carried out worldwide on entire populations without restricted independent trials to prove safety, is not anti-science.

      • Psycho Milt 22.3.1

        Who said Greenpeace are objecting totally to GM.

        Greenpeace do, as quoted above. They declare that GE modifies organisms in ways that don’t occur naturally and that the resulting organisms are a threat that must be kept out of the environment.

        Opposition to scientific experiments being carried out worldwide on entire populations without restricted independent trials to prove safety, is not anti-science.

        Indeed. Fortunately the hippies’ paranoia about science has meant GE gets loaded down with a shit-tonne of safety testing requirements. Meanwhile, where are the “restricted independent trials” proving that organic food is “safe?”

        • One Two 22.3.1.1

          Anti Science, Conspiracy Theorists. …

          Despite the fact that you are wrong, it makes no difference what the Green Peace view is

          Because GMO , like the quak pharma companies they are linked to, is done

          Not because of GP but because humans don’t need or want fake lab rat organisms injested or injected into their bodies

          Its FINISHED. Get used to it!

          • Psycho Milt 22.3.1.1.1

            I think your tinfoil hat has slipped and is letting the chemtrails in.

            • One Two 22.3.1.1.1.1

              The concession in your comment is loud and clear

              It matches the desperation of those quack scientists you NEED so terribly to believe in

              I’ll make it simple for you…

              Nature is smarter than the so called scientists you bow to

              Nature will win 100% of the time if quack want to keep fighting it!

              • Sure, nature wins… eventually. In a billion years from now, no-one will know or care about Homo Sapiens, and good so. In the meantime, the entirety of human civilisation consists of telling Nature to go fuck itself, and good so.

                • Colonial Viper

                  We live on nature’s forebearance. We’ll be lucky if she has more than 100 years patience with us left.

          • tinfoilhat 22.3.1.1.2

            I disagree 1,2, despite being a long time green and greenpeace supporter I’m very thankful for some of the GMO advances other wise i’d be short a grandchild.

  23. Greg 23

    Indian farmers might have a different view on GMO’s

    In the meantime, millions of India farmers live on a knife-edge thanks to them having been encouraged to experiment with the Monsanto’s GM cotton. Read about the case of Bharat Dogra here whose shift to GM cotton as a result of heavy pressure from company sales agents proved disastrous. His case is not a one-off. A strong link has been discovered between economic distress among Indian farmers and the planting of Monsanto’s GM cotton.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-plight-of-indian-farmers-from-militarism-and-monsantos-gmo-to-gandhi-and-bhaskar-save/5523816?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

  24. Macro 24

    CV I think your post is a little too biased. There may be some advantages in GMO foods – but you have not looked at any of the disadvantages.
    A useful post by a scientist is here
    In particular some one of the very real disadvantages to GMO is the potential loss of biodiversity. Most GMO’s are developed in association with Monsanto and other agricultural chemical giants to be resistant to herbicides (especial GMO Soy and Maize) this has the potential to result with transfertilisation to the development of herbicide resistant weeds as well as a increase in monoculture and the further destruction of biodiversity with the consequent eventual destruction of our well being.
    Finally one has to consider whether the benefits outweigh the risks – particularly when one considers the fact that GMO crops take just as long and require just as much care as other crops, and the loss of the common control of the seed base (i.e. the seed produced cannot be reused by the farmer (intellectual property and all that).Finally I suspect the report that “says 1/3 of scientists etc” Is this a peer reviewed paper such as the Cook et al paper with the 97% of climate scientists concurrence on CC? Or is it some puff piece from the Heartland Institute funded by Monsanto?

    • Colonial Viper 24.1

      107 of the world’s top living scientists, Nobel Laureates all of them, signed the letter. There’s honestly no pleasing some people.

      • Macro 24.1.1

        The point is which and why?
        A nobel laureate in physics has no more credence on biodiversity and care for the environment than the a nobel laureate in chemistry or a john key on the state of NZ’s rivers.
        USA and Canada are the only countries in the western world with carte blanche use of GMO’s they also both border .Lake Eire
        The cause is agricultural practices that 30 years ago were regarded as quite safe. Contrary to Monsanto’s statements Glyphosate’s persistence is longer than 15mins in the soil!.

        Field studies cited in the report show the half-life of glyphosate in soil ranges between a few days to several months, or even a year, depending on soil composition. The authors say the research demonstrates that soil sorption and degradation of glyphosate vary significantly depending on the soil’s physical, chemical, and biological properties.

        The whole of the Ohio plains drain into the Lake. Farmers there are little different to the farmers here when it comes to care of the environment.

        • Psycho Milt 24.1.1.1

          A nobel laureate in physics has no more credence on biodiversity and care for the environment than the a nobel laureate in chemistry or a john key on the state of NZ’s rivers.

          Possibly. But a Nobel laureate in physics has excellent credibility when it comes to recognising anti-science scaremongering by political activists, which is what they’ve put their names to in this case.

      • Macro 24.1.2

        Actually CV only 106.
        The list of signatories includes Alfred G Gilman, who died last year (on Dec 23 2015).

        • Colonial Viper 24.1.2.1

          This piece makes the point that we cannot allow our personal values and principles be abrogated by other peoples, no matter how grandiose their own claim to authority is, and that goes double when they are nothing more than servants of establishment interests.

  25. Greg 25

    Isnt it great that these Nobel Laureates gave their enlightened endorsement to Monsanto GMO’s so freely, I mean it has to be a first.

    sarc/

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      These are the best scientific minds that our civilisation has generated. A bit of respect, please. You wouldn’t want to be accused of being “anti-science” would you?

      • Greg 25.1.1

        If you look at my first post, it contains the link to phrase, ‘logic of science’,
        so are they just supporting the company propaganda of GMO,

        Indian farmers have more experience with GMO’s, looking at Monsanto’s reach into that market. it seems to be going fantastically well.

        anti-science, well I already have acquired a list, so whats one more,

        This hero got to age 96, and he was Christian Scientist, according to the more detailed telegraph obit,
        http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/kiwi-battle-of-britain-pilot-dies-2016070109

      • Robert Guyton 25.1.2

        You’re not worried, Colonial Viper, of being branded “deceptive” and “disingenuous” after playing the Weevil’s Avocado here? It’s a risky ploy for someone who might/ought to want to be regarded as a trustworthy voice.

        • Psycho Milt 25.1.2.1

          Don’t worry, the regulars here aren’t under any illusions that CV might suddenly imagine that science is actually useful for something.

  26. Little Kiwi 26

    Embrace this:
    http://www.foodstandards.govt.nz/consumer/gmfood/applications/Pages/default.aspx

    I haven’t checked this list for 5 years, it’s getting ridiculous. Anyone French and single? I am starved of real food.

    • Greg 26.1

      My great grandfather on fathers side was a French ship jumper from the Royal Navy n 1870,
      is that close enough?

      • Little Kiwi 26.1.1

        Sounds good to me 🙂 I lived there briefly and probably could have stayed without anyone getting too upset. Loved the day long obsession with the next meal and decadent pleasures. They have a 1 hour lunch break, max 40 hour working week, it is considered rude to talk about work outside of work hours and they prefer the ladies to rugby. Chocolate for breakfast and no GMO ever. The French experimented with it over here and decided it wasn’t safe. Not happy with the experimentation of course.

  27. Xanthe 28

    CV
    here is another from the same site
    Please read it
    https://www.independentsciencenews.org/#category/10/article/2130
    Real scientists understand that genetics and the environment have a very much more complex interrelationship, this area is in its infancy.

  28. Greg 29

    Lets not forget Bee’s,

  29. Xanthe 30

    Many modern economists think what they do is “science”, they also are mad!

  30. AlZ 31

    1. Science is the study of things and how they work = no one is “anti science” or anti learning.
    2. Genetic Engineering is “engineering” in the way the “chemical engineering” or welding is. Mechanistic construction. Done for a purpose either military or commercial. The profit motive, public safety and the reputation of companies and scientists was being checked by “peer review” which was a good system run on good faith and honesty, those days are gone as reviewers and whole journals have been proven to be easily bought or corrupted by the corporations who seek their own thriving above all other aims. ( the nature of competitive capitalism).
    3. “Safe” is an absolute term that is useless without parameters and context,
    no one especially in food or medicine should proclaim “safe”.
    4. Nature has been through most plant / trait combinations over millennia, there is no better testing process and it put human efforts in weeks or months in very controlled conditions ( some totally unreal) to shame. Put back the trees, de tox
    the productive land and feed it actual soil food not chemistry, eejots. In these maters nature knows best and any “scientist” worth their letters knows this.
    5. Green peace has joined the ranks of “post truth”, its recent campaign over a solar power “tax” ( only a government or royal can tax) is just the most recent propaganda / marketing of its causes, the word “levy” may be right the words “reduced returns” are accurate, but “Tax” is deliberately chosen for reaction.
    The non ethics of propaganda are not present in lectures on media, One must gat “emotional traction” etc. They do themselves a dis service by going along with the hyped up half truth, semi factual, advertorial way of presenting information, joining the ranks of Monsanto in PR is not a good look for a organization founded on ethics. Nobel Laureates….. what exactly is that a “mega qualified” grouping. lol Sign of a weak case, logically thinking. One good scientist cant sway opinion so pour on a hundred that should do it. Scientific weight of opinion again.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #29

    A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
    3 hours ago
  • I'd like to share what I did this weekend

    This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    11 hours ago
  • For the children – Why mere sentiment can be a misleading force in our lives, and lead to unex...

    National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Order image, ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    13 hours ago
  • A friend in uncertain times

    Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    17 hours ago
  • The Chaotic World of Male Diet Influencers

    Hi,We’ll get to the horrific world of male diet influencers (AKA Beefy Boys) shortly, but first you will be glad to know that since I sent out the Webworm explaining why the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was not a false flag operation, I’ve heard from a load of people ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    17 hours ago
  • It's Starting To Look A Lot Like… Y2K

    Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Bernard’s Saturday Soliloquy for the week to July 20

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Pharmac Director, Climate Change Commissioner, Health NZ Directors – The latest to quit this m...

    Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    2 days ago
  • Flooding Housing Policy

    The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 days ago
  • A Voyage Among the Vandals: Accepted (Again!)

    As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
    2 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Friday, July 19

    An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 19-July-2024

    Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    3 days ago
  • Weekly Climate Wrap: A market-led plan for failure

    TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Tobacco First

    Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Trump’s Adopted Son.

    Waiting In The Wings: For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
    3 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSA announced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to July 19

    TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s release of its first Emissions Reduction Plan;University of Otago Foreign Relations Professor and special guest Dr Karin von ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #29 2024

    Open access notables Improving global temperature datasets to better account for non-uniform warming, Calvert, Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society: To better account for spatial non-uniform trends in warming, a new GITD [global instrumental temperature dataset] was created that used maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) to combine the land surface ...
    3 days ago
  • We're back again! Join us for the weekly Hoon on YouTube Live

    Photo by Gabriel Crismariu on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Gut Reactions.

    Trump Writes His Own Story: Would the “mainstream” media even try to reflect the horrified reaction of the MAGA crowd to the pop-pop-pop of the would-be assassin’s rifle, and Trump going down? Could it even grasp the sheer elation of the rally-goers seeing their champion rise up and punch the air, still alive, ...
    3 days ago
  • Dodging Bullets.

    Fight! Fight! Fight! Had the assassin’s bullet found its mark and killed Donald Trump, America’s descent into widespread and murderous violence – possibly spiralling-down into civil war – would have been immediate and quite possibly irreparable. The American Republic, upon whose survival liberty and democracy continue to depend, is certainly not ...
    3 days ago
  • 'Corruption First' Strikes Again

    There comes a point in all our lives when we must stop to say, “Enough is enough. We know what’s happening. We are not as stupid or as ignorant as you believe us to be. And making policies that kill or harm our people is not acceptable, Ministers.”Plausible deniability has ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    3 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:The inside stories of KiwiRail’s iRex debacle, Westport’s perma-delayed flood scheme and Christchurch’s post-quake sewer rebuild, which assumed no population growth, show just how deeply sceptical senior officials in Treasury, the Ministry of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • What's that Jack Black?

    Ah-rah, deeSoo-guh-goo-gee-goo-geeGoo-guh fli-goo gee-gooGuh fli-goo, ga-goo-buh-deeOoh, guh-goo-beeOoh-guh-guh-bee-guh-guh-beeFli-goo gee-gooA-fliguh woo-wa mama Lucifer!I’m about ready to move on, how about you?Not from the shooting, that’s bad and we definitely shouldn’t have that. But the rehabilitation of Donald J Trump? The deification of Saint Donald? As the Great Unifier?Gimme a bucket.https://yellowscene.com/2024/04/07/trump-as-jesus/Just to re-iterate, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • June 2024: Earth’s 13th-consecutive warmest month on record

    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters and Bob Henson June 2024 was Earth’s warmest June since global record-keeping began in 1850 and was the planet’s 13th consecutive warmest month on record, NOAA’s National Centers for Environmental Information, or NCEI, reported July 12. As opposed to being focused in ...
    4 days ago
  • Connecting the dots and filling the gaps in our bike network

    This is a guest post by Shaun Baker on the importance of filling the gaps in our cycling networks. It originally appeared on his blog Multimodal Adventures, and is re-posted here with kind permission. In our towns and cities in Aotearoa New Zealand, there are areas in our cycling networks ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    4 days ago
  • Webworm Down Under Photos!

    Hi,I wanted to share a few thoughts and photos from the Webworm popup and Tickled screening we held in Auckland, New Zealand last weekend.In short — it was a blast. I mean, I had a blast and I hope any of you that came also had a blast.An old friend ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:30 am on Thursday, July 18 are:News: Christchurch's sewer systems block further housing developments RNZ’s Niva ChittockAnalysis: Interislander: Treasury, MoT officials' mistrust of KiwiRail led ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 18, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Verbatim: Climate Change Minister Simon Watts held a news conference in Auckland to release the Government’s Emissions Reduction Plan, including ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The politics of managed retreat

    Climate change deniers are now challenging the Government over a key climate change adaptation policy. That begs the question of whether New Zealand First will then support Government moves to implement processes to deal with a managed retreat for properties in danger of flooding because of sea level rise and ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • Some changes are coming

    Warm welcome again to those who are here. The Mountain Tui substack was officially started on the 2nd of July. I wrote about what led me here on this post. Since then, it’s been a learning to navigate the platform, get to meet those in the community, and basically be ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    4 days ago
  • About fucking time

    The US Supreme Court has been rogue for years, with openly corrupt judges making the law up as they go to suit themselves, their billionaire buyers, and the Republican Party. But now, in the wake of them granting a licence for tyranny, President Biden is actually going to try and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Climate Change: False accounting and wishful thinking

    National released their draft 2026-2030 Emissions Reduction Plan today. The plan is required under the Zero Carbon Act, and must set out policies and strategies to meet the relevant emissions budget. Having cancelled all Labour's actually effective climate change policies and crashed the carbon price, National was always going to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • The Enemies Of Sunshine And Space.

    Our Houses? The Urban Density debate is a horrible combination of intergenerational avarice and envy, fuelled by the grim certainty that none of the generations coming up after them will ever have it as good as the Boomers. To say that this situation rankles among those born after 1965 is to ...
    4 days ago
  • Still the 5 Eyes Achilles Heel?

    The National Cyber Security Centre (NZSC), a unit in the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) dedicated to cyber-security, has released a Review of its response to the 2021 email hacking of NZ members of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China (IPAC, … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Britain's Devastating Electoral Slip.

    Slip-Sliding Away: Labour may now enjoy a dominant position in Britain’s political landscape, but only by virtue of not being swallowed by it.THE BRITISH LABOUR PARTY’S “landslide victory” is nothing of the sort. As most people understand the term, a landslide election victory is one in which the incumbent government, or ...
    4 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on why right wingers think all governments (including their own) are incompetent

    Since open denial of climate change is no longer a viable political option, denial now comes in disguise. The release this week of the coalition government’s ‘draft emissions reductions plan” shows that the Luxon government is refusing to see the need to cut emissions at source. Instead, it proposes to ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy this morning are:Chris Penk is set to roll back building standards for insulation that had only just been put in place, and which had been estimated to save 40% from power costs, after builders ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Open Letter to Pharmac

    All this talk of getting oldIt's getting me down, my loveLike a cat in a bag, waiting to drownThis time I'm coming downAnd I hope you're thinking of meAs you lay down on your sideNow the drugs don't workThey just make you worse but I know I'll see your face ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • A blanket of misinformation

    Two old sayings have been on my mind lately. The first is: “The pen is mightier than the sword”, describing the power of language and communication to help or to harm. The other, which captures the speed with which falsehoods can become ingrained and hard to undo, is: “A lie can ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 are:Scoop: Government considers rolling back home insulation standards RNZ’s Eloise GibsonNews: Government plans tree-planting frenzy as report shows NZ no longer ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 , the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:Simon Watts released the Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan (ERP), which included proposed changes to the Emissions Trading Scheme ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • “Shhhh” – National's 3 Waters is loaded with higher costs and lays a path to ...

    This is a long, possibly technical, but very, very important read. I encourage you to take the time and spread your awareness.IntroductionIn 2022, then Labour Party Prime Minister Jacinda Adern expended significant political capital to protect New Zealand’s water assets from privatisation. She lost that battle, and Labour and the ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    5 days ago
  • Plugging a video channel: Dr Gilbz

    Dr. Ella Gilbert is a climate scientist and presenter with a PhD in Antarctic climate change, working at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS). Her background is in atmospheric sciences and she's especially interested in the physical mechanisms of climate change, clouds, and almost anything polar. She is passionate about communicating climate ...
    5 days ago
  • Some “scrutiny” again

    Back in 2022, in its Open Government Partnership National Action Plan, the government promised to strengthen scrutiny of Official Information Act exemption clauses in legislation. Since then they've run a secret "consultation" on how to do that, with their preferred outcome being that agencies will consult the Ministry of Justice ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Crashing New Zealand's health system is not the way to prosperity, Prime Minister

    Another day, and yet another piece of bad news for New Zealand’s health system. Reports have come out that General Practitioners (GP) may have to close doors, or increase patient fees to survive. The so-called ‘capitation’ funding review, which supports GP practices to survive, is under way, and primary care ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    5 days ago
  • Closer Than You Think: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.

    Redefining Our Terms: “When an angry majority is demanding change, defending the status-quo is an extremist position.”“WHAT’S THIS?”, asked Laurie, eyeing suspiciously the two glasses of red wine deposited in front of him.“A nice drop of red. I thought you’d be keen to celebrate the French Far-Right’s victory with the ...
    5 days ago
  • Come on Darleen.

    Good morning all, time for a return to things domestic. After elections in the UK and France, Luxon gatecrashing Nato, and the attempted shooting of Trump, it’s probably about time we re-focus on local politics.Unless of course you’re Christopher Luxon and you’re so exhausted from all your schmoozing in Washington ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • How the Northwest was lost and may be won

    This is a guest post by Darren Davis. It originally appeared on his excellent blog, Adventures in Transitland, which we encourage you to check out. It is shared by kind permission. The Northwest has always been Auckland’s public transport Cinderella, rarely invited to the public funding ball. How did ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Tuesday July 16

    Luxon has told a Financial Times’ correspondent he would openly call out China’s spying in future and does not fear economic retaliation from Aotearoa’s largest trading partner.File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Tuesday, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Tuesday, July 16

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 16 are:PM Christopher Luxon has given a very hawkish interview to the Financial Times-$$$ correspondent in Washington, Demetri Sevastopulu, saying ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Tuesday, July 16

    Photo by Ryunosuke Kikuno on UnsplashTL;DR: The top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 6:00 am are:BNZ released its Performance of Services Index for June, finding that services sector is at its lowest level of activity ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • The second crisis; assumption was the mother

    Late on the night of July 16, 1984, while four National Cabinet Ministers were meeting in the Beehive office of Deputy Prime Minister Jim McLay, plotting the ultimate downfall of outgoing Prime Minister Sir Robert Muldoon, another crisis was building up in another part of the capital. The United States ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago
  • Can we air condition our way out of extreme heat?

    This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler Air conditioning was initially a symbol of comfort and wealth, enjoyed by the wealthy in theaters and upscale homes. Over time, as technology advanced and costs decreased, air conditioning became more accessible to the general public. With global warming, though, ...
    6 days ago
  • Review: The Zimiamvian Trilogy, by E.R. Eddison (1935-1958)

    I have reviewed some fairly obscure stuff on this blog. Nineteenth century New Zealand speculative fiction. Forgotten Tolkien adaptations. George MacDonald and William Morris. Last month I took a look at The Worm Ouroboros (1922), by E.R. Eddison, which while not strictly obscure, is also not overly inviting to many ...
    6 days ago
  • Media Link: AVFA on the Trump assassination attempt.

    In this episode of “A View from Afar” Selwyn Manning and I discuss the attempt on Donald Trump’s life and its implications for the US elections. The political darkness grows. ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • Law & Order: National Party 1, Police 0, Public -1

    What happened?Media is reporting that police have lost in their pay dispute with the Coalition Government.Some of you might remember that the police rejected Labour’s previous offer in September, 2023, possibly looking forward to be taken care of by the self-touted ‘Party of Law and Order’ - National.If you look ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    6 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the Trump shooting and a potential hike in fees for visiting the doctor

    Having watched Donald Trump systematically exploit social grievances, urge people not to accept his election loss and incite his followers to violent insurrection… it is a bit hard to swallow the media descriptions over the past 24 hours of Trump being a “victim” of violence. More like a case of ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Monday July 15

    The exploitation of workers on the national fibre broadband rollout highlights once again the dark underbelly of our ‘churn and burn’ economy. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:An extraordinary Steve Kilgallon investigation into ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Monday, July 15

    Photo by Jessica Loaiza on UnsplashTL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last three days to 9:00 am on Monday, July 15 are:Investigation: Immigration NZ refused to prosecute an alleged exploiter despite a mountain of evidence - ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 days ago
  • City Centre Rebuild: How Soon Is Now?

    Patrick Reynolds is deputy chair of the City Centre Advisory Panel and a director of Greater Auckland There is ongoing angst about construction disruption in the city centre. And fair enough: it’s very tough, CRL and other construction has been going on for a very long time. Like the pandemic, ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    7 days ago
  • Peril, dismay, resolution

    This afternoon we rolled into Budapest to bring to a close our ride across Europe. We did 144 km yesterday, severe heat messages coming in from the weather app as we bounced along unformed Hungarian back roads and a road strip strewn with fallen trees from an overnight tornado. Somewhere ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • Bullet the Blue Sky

    In the locust windComes a rattle and humJacob wrestled the angelAnd the angel was overcomeYou plant a demon seedYou raise a flower of fireWe see them burnin' crossesSee the flames, higher and higherBullet the blue skyBullet the blue skyThe indelible images, the soundtrack of America. Guns, assassinations, where-were-you-when moments attached ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    7 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Monday, July 15

    TL;DR: The top six announcements, rulings, reports, surveys, statistics and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the three days to 6:00 am on Monday, July 23 are:University of Auckland researcher Ryan Greenaway-McGrevy published an analysis of the impact of Auckland's 2016 zoning reforms.BNZ's latest Performance ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 days ago
  • The Kākā’s diary for the week to July 23 and beyond

    TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to July 23 include:PM Christopher Luxon has returned from a trip to the United States and may hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4:00 pm today.The BusinessNZ-BNZ PSI survey results for June will be released this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 days ago
  • Was The Assassination Attempt Fake?

    Hi,It’s in incredible photo, and we’re going to be talking about it for a long time:Trump, triumphantly raising his hand in the air after being shot. Photo credit: Evan VucciYou can watch what happened on YouTube in real time, as a 20-year-old from Pennsylvania lets off a series of gunshots ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    7 days ago
  • 40 years ago, inside the crisis that made modern NZ

    It had rained all day in Auckland, and the Metro Theatre in Mangere was steamed up inside as more and more people arrived to celebrate what had once seemed impossible. Sir Robert Muldoon had lost the 1984 election. “Piggy” Muldoon was no more. Such was the desire to get rid ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    7 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #28

    A listing of 34 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 7, 2024 thru Sat, July 13, 2024. Story of the week It's still early summer in the Northern Hemisphere. The season comes as our first year of 1.5°C warming ...
    1 week ago
  • Unsurprising, but Trump shooting creates opportunity for a surprising response

    I can’t say I’m shocked. As the US news networks offer rolling coverage dissecting the detail of today’s shooting at a Donald Trump rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, and we hear eye-witnesses trying to make sense of their trauma, the most common word being used is shock. And shocking it is. ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    1 week ago
  • Escalation in the States as Trump is shot and his allies capitalize on the moment

    Snapshot summary of the shooting in the States belowAnd a time to remember what Abraham Lincoln once said of the United States of America:We find ourselves in the peaceful possession of the fairest portion of the earth, as regards extent of territory, fertility of soil, and salubrity of climate. We ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 week ago
  • Bernie Sanders: Joe Biden for President

    I will do all that I can to see that President Biden is re-elected. Why? Despite my disagreements with him on particular issues, he has been the most effective president in the modern history of our country and is the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump — a demagogue and ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 week ago
  • Questions from God

    Have you invited God into your online life? Do you have answers for his questions? Did I just assume God’s pronouns?Before this goes any further, or gets too blasphemous, a word of explanation. When I say “God”, I don’t meant your god(s), if you have one/them. The God I speak ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • The politics of money and influence

    Did you know: Four days ago, the CEO of Warner Bros Discovery (WBD), David Zaslav, opined that he didn’t really care who won the US Presidential election, so long as they were M&A and business friendly. Please share my Substack so I can continue my work. Thank you and happy ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 week ago
  • Auckland & Transport Minister Simeon Brown's insanity

    Excuse me, but I just don’t feel like being polite today. What is going on with Simeon Brown? I mean, really? After spending valuable Ministerial time, focus, and government resources to overturn tailored speed limits in school and high fatality zones that *checks notes* reduces the risk of deaths and ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 week ago

  • Oceans and Fisheries Minister to Solomons

    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government launches Military Style Academy Pilot

    The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Nine priority bridge replacements to get underway

    The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Update on global IT outage

    Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand, Japan renew Pacific partnership

    New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.    “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New infrastructure energises BOP forestry towns

    New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • 'Pacific Futures'

    President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests.    Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone.    Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Delivering 24 hour pothole repairs

    Kiwis and freight operators will benefit from the Coalition Government delivering on its commitment to introduce targets that will ensure a greater number of potholes on our state highways are identified and fixed within 24 hours, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is a key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Peer Support Specialists rolled out in hospitals

    Five hospitals have been selected to trial a new mental health and addiction peer support service in their emergency departments as part of the Government’s commitment to increase access to mental health and addiction support for New Zealanders, says Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey.  “Peer Support Specialists in EDs will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Consultation opens for the Emissions Reduction Plan

    The Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows we can stay within the limits of the first two emissions budgets while growing the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “This draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows that with effective climate change policies we can both grow the economy and deliver our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Benefit stats highlight need for welfare reset

    The coalition Government is providing extra support for job seekers to ensure as many Kiwis as possible are in work or preparing for work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “While today’s quarterly data showing a rise in the number of people on Jobseeker benefits has been long ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • School attendance continues to increase

    Provisional school attendance data for Term 2 2024 released today has shown more students are back in class compared to last year, with 53.1 per cent of students regularly attending, compared with 47 per cent in Term 2 2023, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. “The Government has prioritised student ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • $22.7m of West Coast resilience projects underway

    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news of progress being made by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) on the first of several crucial resilience projects underway on the South Island’s West Coast.“State highways across the West Coast are critical lifelines for communities throughout the region, including for freight and tourism. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Migrant school leavers to get part-time work rights

    The coalition Government is providing migrant school leavers with greater opportunities, by increasing access to part-time work rights for those awaiting the outcome of a family residence application, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford has announced.  “Many young people who are part of a family residence application process are unable to work. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Funding to support use of NZ Sign Language

    Seven projects have received government funding totalling nearly $250,000 to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). Initiatives that received an NZSL Board Community Grants this year include camps that support the use of NZSL through physical and sensory activities, and clubs where Deaf people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Inflation data shows progress in economic recovery

    Today’s Consumer Price Index data which has inflation at 3.3 per cent for the year to July 2024, shows we are turning our economy around and winning the fight against rampant inflation, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  “While today’s data will be welcome news for Kiwis, I know many New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Experts to advise Minister on Oranga Tamariki

    The Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board has been re-established by the Minister for Children, Karen Chhour. “I look forward to working with the new board to continue to ensure Oranga Tamariki and the care and protection system, are entirely child centric,” Minister Chhour says. “The board will provide independent advice ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Expectations set for improved medicines access

    Associate Health Minister David Seymour says he has set clear expectations for Pharmac around delivering the medicines and medical technology that Kiwis need.  “For many New Zealanders, funding for pharmaceuticals is life or death, or the difference between a life of pain and suffering or living freely. New cancer medicines ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Regional Development Minister to host summits

    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones will hold a series of nationwide summits to discuss regional priorities, aspirations and opportunities, with the first kicking off in Nelson on August 12. The 15 summits will facilitate conversations about progressing regional economic growth and opportunities to drive productivity, prosperity and resilience through the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government delivers new school for Rolleston

    The Coalition Government is addressing growing demands on Canterbury’s school network, by delivering a new primary school in Rolleston, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. Within Budget 24’s $400 million investment into school property growth, construction will begin on a new primary school (years 1-8) in Selwyn, Canterbury.  Rolleston South Primary ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New speed camera signs to improve safety

    The Government is welcoming the rollout of new speed camera signs for fixed speed cameras to encourage drivers to check their speeds, improving road safety and avoiding costly speeding tickets, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Providing Kiwis with an opportunity to check their speed and slow down in high crash areas ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ, Korea strengthen relationship

    New Zealand and the Republic of Korea continue to strengthen their relationship, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “New Zealand and Korea have a long history – from New Zealand soldiers fighting in the Korean War, through to our strong cooperation today as partners supporting the international rules-based order.    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Investing for future growth in tourism and hospitality

    The Government is moving forward with recommendations from the Tourism Data Leadership Group, beginning with establishing a Tourism Data Partnership Fund says Tourism and Hospitality Minister Matt Doocey. “The Tourism Data Partnership Fund is funded through the International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy (IVL) and will provide up to $400,000 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • 4000 more job seekers to get case managers

    A new over-the-phone employment case management service will see thousands more job seekers under the age of 25 supported to find work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston has announced. “MSD case managers provide valuable support to help people into work, but less than a third of those receiving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Trade Minister to attend G7 meeting in Italy

    Trade Minister Todd McClay will attend the Group of Seven (G7) Trade Ministers meeting in Reggio Calabria, Italy next week. This is the first time New Zealand has been invited to join the event, which will be attended by some of the world’s largest economies and many of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministers reveal consequences for unruly Kāinga Ora tenants

    Ministers are pleased to see Kāinga Ora taking a stronger approach to managing unruly, threatening or abusive tenants, Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka say.    “For far too long, a small number of Kāinga Ora tenants have ridden roughshod over their neighbours because, under Kāinga ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister wraps up US visit in California

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has finished a successful four-day visit to the United States with meetings in California on his final day focusing on innovation and investment.  “It has been fantastic to be in San Francisco today seeing first-hand the deepening links between New Zealand and California. “New Zealand company, EV Maritime, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister leads Indo-Pacific Four at NATO

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today chaired a meeting of the Indo-Pacific Four (IP4) countries – Australia, Japan, the Republic of Korea and New Zealand. The IP4 met in the context of NATO’s Summit in Washington DC hosted by President Biden. “Prosperity is only possible with security,” Mr Luxon says. “We need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • District Court judges appointed

    Attorney-General Hon Judith Collins today announced the appointment of three new District Court Judges.   The appointees, who will take up their roles in July and August at the Manukau, Rotorua and Invercargill courts, are:   Matthew Nathan Judge Nathan was admitted to bar in New Zealand in 2021, having previously been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Urgent review into Wairoa flood response begins

    Environment Minister, Penny Simmonds today announced the terms of reference for a rapid review into the Wairoa flood response. “The Wairoa community has raised significant concerns about the management of the Wairoa River bar and the impact this had on flooding of properties in the district,” says Ms Simmonds. “The Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZDF’s Red Sea deployment extended

    New Zealand has extended its contribution to the US-led coalition working to uphold maritime security in the Red Sea, Defence Minister Judith Collins and Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The decision to extend this deployment is reflective of the continued need to partner and act in line with New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government provides support to tackle tax debt and compliance

    New compliance funding in Budget 2024 will ensure Inland Revenue is better equipped to catch individuals who are evading their tax obligations, Revenue Minister Simon Watts says. “New Zealand’s tax debt had risen to almost $7.4 billion by the end of May, an increase of more than 50 per cent since 2022. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Taking action to reduce road cones

    The Coalition Government is taking action to reduce expenditure on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM) while maintaining the safety of workers and road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  Rolling out a new risk-based approach to TTM that will reduce the number of road cones on our roads.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Celebrating 100 years of progress

    Te Arawa Lakes Trust centenary celebrations mark a significant milestone for all the important work done for the lakes, the iwi and for the Bay of Plenty region, says Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti and Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a commemorative event acknowledging 100 years ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Foreign Minister to travel to Korea and Japan

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to the Republic of Korea and Japan next week.    “New Zealand enjoys warm and enduring relationships with both Korea and Japan. Our relationships with these crucial partners is important for New Zealand’s ongoing prosperity and security,” says Mr Peters.    While in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government creates MAG for retail crime victims

    The coalition Government is establishing a Ministerial Advisory Group for the victims of retail crime, as part of its plan to restore law and order, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee says.  “New Zealand has seen an exponential growth in retail crime over the past five ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Huge opportunity for educators and students as charter school applications open

    Associate Education Minister David Seymour says today is another important step towards establishing charter schools, with the application process officially opening.  “There has already been significant interest from groups and individuals interested in opening new charter schools or converting existing state schools to charter schools,” says Mr Seymour. “There is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Decreasing gas reserves data highlights need to reverse oil and gas exploration ban

    MBIE’s annual Petroleum Reserves report detailing a 20 per cent reduction in New Zealand’s natural gas reserves shows the need to reverse the oil and gas exploration ban, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says.“Figures released by MBIE show that there has been a 20 per cent reduction in New Zealand’s natural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Providers of military assistance to Russia targeted in new sanctions

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further sanctions as part of the Government’s ongoing response to Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine.    “Russia’s continued illegal war of aggression against Ukraine is a direct and shocking assault on the rules-based order. Our latest round of sanctions targets Russians involved in that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • OECD report shows New Zealand is a red tape state

    Minister for Regulation David Seymour says that the OECD Product Market Regulation Indicators (PMRI) released this morning shows why New Zealanders sorely need regulatory reform. “This shocker result should end any and all doubt that the Government must go to war on red tape and regulation,” says Mr Seymour.  “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-07-21T11:10:31+00:00