2014 man of the Year

59 comments on “2014 man of the Year ”

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1. Zorr 1

   22 December 2014 at 1:57 pm

   Tracey,

   I agree with the post completely.

   Just want clarification though because I’m not sure if you put the Rudyard Kipling poem in there as an example of how a man should be or as a representation of misguided thinking on what a man should aim for.

   I have always hated the image of man as an Atlas who bears the weight of the world with nary a care.
   • Tracey 1.1

     22 December 2014 at 2:23 pm

     Zorr

     a bit of both actually.

     Even as a misguided definition, imo, Key fails.

     Kipling allegedly wrote it in the late 1800’s so it is a very Victorian viewpoint.
   • A VOTER 1.2

     22 December 2014 at 2:48 pm

     Kipling was a twat like Key
     • Murray Rawshark 1.2.1

       23 December 2014 at 2:46 am

       Kipling was a man of his time. Key wouldn’t even be a man of Kipling’s time.
       • Tracey 1.2.1.1

         23 December 2014 at 5:01 am

         pluss 1
2. A VOTER 2

   22 December 2014 at 2:11 pm

   It would be good if they addressed the cause of the behavior mainly that it is a reflection of the leadership of this country’s lack of depth and experience in dealing with growth of sexual crime in NZ
   So often the rhetoric of males sounds their complete lack of understanding of how women see ,relate and deal with sex crime perpetrated on them
   And quite frankly if you havent experienced situations in life where these events have occured you dont know jack shit about it
   And by the sounds of Key and Cunliffe they should stop trying to lead when what they have is an opinion which they are trying to make statesman capital out of
   It is a commercial social perversion that allows young men to buy into this sick disrespectful behavior
   If they in their minds had any idea of consequences of their actions to their victims they would do well to consider the fact that at one time they could be executed for what they do
   Its about subjugating thru fear something powerful people do but these young people because of the law , manipulate society’s sympathy
   Their punishment should fear based to show them that their crime is premeditated and the purveyors of the ideology should also be punished in a detention sentence as well
   The govt should also be held to account for giving license to the industries to allow this crap to be sold and the education system and the police would do well to inform these adolescent persons of the seriousness of the crimes if they ever think to choose to commit such , before they go down that track
   The govt does have a responsibility and our PM would do well to consider its apology to Miss Billingsley for the actions of one such person in its control who is being charged with a sex crime as a starter in actuality and not just an have an opinion for a ministerial position
   • Tracey 2.1

     22 December 2014 at 2:29 pm

     A Voter, I understand the sentiments you are expressing. For my part, I want less money and focus poured at theguilty(once convicted) and more at prevention.

     When I was a girl my male peers werent developing their notions of appropriate behaviour toward girls from online porn etc BUT they were stashing “dirty” mags under their mattresses.

     There are many GREAT programmes aimed at beginning school kids and high school. Respect in your dealings with other people can start pre school.

     I remember when drinking and driving was first really addressed it was kids showing up their parents. The same needs to happen here.

     As long asKey kowtows, as he did to colin craig, on health and relationship education in schools, the misguided notion that it is about teaching kids about sex will prevail.
     • aerobubble 2.1.1

       23 December 2014 at 4:21 pm

       oh please. capitalism the nasty end demands profits at every turn. free time for parents goes the same way as extra money into the markets. so kids, who are hard wired to be intringed by sex, fear peer pressure, etc, dont get educated by their parents but the market. blame yourselves you wanted you house price to rise, you want-ed to out do the neighbors, you want some other group to get the whip cracked on them, its never about you. people porn was not everywhere over the million years of our existance, take oppressive right and left wing economy first parties off us and give citizens the ability to breath again. too often the people declaring their hate for the other are the reinforces of the status quo.
3. seeker 3

   22 December 2014 at 2:24 pm

   Excellent post Tracey. So much that needed to be said, thankyou.

   When I first saw key wearing that fatuous t shirt I immediately thought , “Well you should be sorry, really sorry, that you are the type of man you are………apparently a
   dishonourable, con man”.

   In fact I am sorry, really sorry , that such a ‘man’ leads our country.
   • batweka 3.1

     22 December 2014 at 3:56 pm

     +1

     great post tracey.
   • Colonial Rawshark 3.2

     22 December 2014 at 4:47 pm

     The only reason that John Key was wearing that shirt around everywhere would have been because National’s internal polling and focus groups told him that it was, and remains, a popular message to Kiwis by a substantial margin.

     Lefties, read it and get what that means.
4. Tracey 4

   22 December 2014 at 2:36 pm

   Programmes like the one referred to in this article (below) which costs $400k each year, has trained 77,000 12 year old girls and led to reporting of abuse and increased self confidence.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/5004680/Fears-for-girls-safety-as-course-cut
5. NZJester 5

   22 December 2014 at 2:36 pm

   I don’t know if he can be man of the year.
   Someone in a previous post I read a while back put in a very good argument that John is a cold blooded Lizard creature in disguise.
   Is a cold blooded Lizard creature eligible for that?
   • Tracey 5.1

     22 December 2014 at 2:48 pm

     It depends on what you mean by “man” 😉
6. Tracey 6

   22 December 2014 at 2:45 pm

   April 2011

   ” .Rotorua agency Family Focus, which runs programmes for men, women and children, said the assessment could help to meet a desperate need for more services in its area.

   “Our statistics have doubled,” said manager Stacey Ford. “We had 700 people through our agency from July 1 to December 31 last year. We normally do only 700 in a year.

   “Our staff are absolutely exhausted and there is a never-ending stream through the door. We can’t turn people away so we are just having to work very quickly with them,” Stacey Ford said.

   Two other Rotorua agencies that provided counselling for men – the Rotorua Violence Prevention Service and Challenge Violence Trust – have closed in recent years, and Barnardos closed its local service for children and their families last year… “”

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10721930
7. rhinocrates 7

   22 December 2014 at 3:01 pm

   “If you can keep your head when all about you
   Are losing theirs …”

   Perhaps you should land your helicopter somewhere less crowded.

   [rimshot]

   Totally irrelevant, but what the Hell…

   As for Key… well, the backlash is at least heartening and I think that the wider public are starting to see him more and more not as one of the lads, but a smartarsed prick. Andrew Little’s “Cut the crap” seems to have resonated with its simplicity and keeping with Kiwi bluntness, so maybe the tide will turn on him not with the electorate deciding that he’s an evil capitalist, but smacking its collective forehead and saying “Christ, he’s like my Dad telling jokes at the wedding after he’s had too many.”
8. Coffee Connoisseur 8

   22 December 2014 at 3:45 pm

   hmmm very Interesting read

   “Can I begin by saying I’m sorry – I don’t often say it – I’m sorry for being a man, right now. Because family and sexual violence is perpetrated overwhelmingly by men against women and children,

   So the first message to the men out there is: wake up, stand up and man up and stop this bullshit!’”

   Unfortunately this is not an easy problem to solve as Real Kiwi blokes don’t sit around and talk about their feelings and you certainly can’t ask another man ‘hey bro do you abuse your wife’.
   I do think that in order to solve it it needs more attention. Much more attention first at a societal level and then at the individual family level where it occurs.

   Men who abuse their wives, in many cases won’t have the level of respect for woman that is needed to solve the problem. So hearing this message coming from woman isn’t going to hit home.
   The message needs to come from other men in society now and even more so once the issue is getting more air time.

   Cunliffe shouldn’t have said I’m sorry for being a man in any context as respect starts with ones self.
   What Cunliffe perhaps should have said is ‘I’m proud to be a man who doesn’t beat or abuse women’.
   This should probably be a Campaign to help raise money for womans refuge.
   T-shirts for Men with that message on it.
   To bring it more down to a family level you could have ‘I’m proud to be a Dad who doesn’t beat women.’ I’m proud to be a loving husband who doesn’t beat my wife.’

   The other thing that is needed is targeted help with increased resources for men who do beat their wives and who want to stop. Without this all the campaigns in the world will fail. Almost like AA where there is a budy or a support person they can call if they need to on top of other tools they’ll be given for dealing with the situation where they might have otherwise used their fists.
   • Tracey 8.1

     22 December 2014 at 3:49 pm

     for targetted programnes for men

     http://thestandard.org.nz/2014-man-of-the-year/#comment-943220

     the tools are all there to deal with this from every angle. What is lacking is the political will to fund them
     • batweka 8.1.1

       22 December 2014 at 4:20 pm

       That’s how I understand it. People have been doing this work well for a long time, and they’ve done it in the face of poort funding or having their funding pulled out from under them. It’s all about the politics (FJK).
   • batweka 8.2

     22 December 2014 at 4:19 pm

     The message needs to come from other men in society now and even more so once the issue is getting more air time.

     Spot on.

     Cunliffe shouldn’t have said I’m sorry for being a man in any context as respect starts with ones self.
     What Cunliffe perhaps should have said is ‘I’m proud to be a man who doesn’t beat or abuse women’.

     That’s a good point, although can we add in the bit about it’s not enough to not be an abuser, men also need to hold other men accountable (and as you say, support them when they want to change)?

     ‘I’m proud to be a man who doesn’t beat or abuse women, and I don’t tolerate or support men who do’ or something like that.

     DC got this bit right, “So the first message to the men out there is: wake up, stand up and man up and stop this bullshit!”

     Manning up also means men need to take responsibility for male violence, not just project out there that it’s other men that do it.

     The good news is that there are so many more men already willing to do this than there used to be. I think this is true even in conservative, blokey communities.
9. vto 9

   22 December 2014 at 3:59 pm

   Was there something in there that suggested that because I am a man I share more of the societal burden for this problem than any fellow citizen solely because of my manness? It sounds like it. Tell me it isn’t so.
   • RedLogix 9.1

     22 December 2014 at 4:24 pm

     What’s come to mind by way of a response to your comment vto is this. It’s really worth trying to get hold of a small book written by Joan Metge who is a New Zealand social anthropologist, educator, lecturer and writer called In and Out of Touch: Whakamaa in Cross Cultural Context.

     It may be quite hard to get hold of nowadays, but I still have a copy somwhere in a box back home. But here is a small review I could find online:

     This book, I think, is timely in that it is available when relations
     between Miiori and Piikeha are in a state of flux and are a matter of concern
     to some. It gives deep insight into a form of Miiori behavior many
     Piikeha define as arrogance, sullenness, uncooperativeness, aggressiveness,
     and many other epithets, Such definitions, however, are formed
     without knowing, caring, or appreciating the Miiori viewpoint. Much
     of the lack of understanding between Miiori and Piikeha can be attributed
     to the Piikehaa because of “their cool assumption that the Piikeha
     way of doing something is the only, the human, way” (p. 140).
     Whakama (whakamaa) is a feeling common to all people but is
     treated differently by different cultures. The word means “embarrassed,
     shy, ashamed, coy, humiliating,” and is well illustrated by the
     many case histories Metge uses to support her arguments.
     The exact definition is dependent upon the generation of the person
     and the degree to which that person grew up in a Miiori society that was
     or is Miiori speaking and behaved or behaves in a Miiori way. The contention
     that urbanized Miiori youth are unfamiliar with the concept is
     debatable–even if unable to articulate the feeling they certainly experience
     it, although their reactions to it differ from their rural counterparts.

     https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/PacificStudies/article/viewFile/9586/9235

     Whakamaa is word without a simple one to one correspondence into English or indeed our way of thinking. But the one aspect I can identify with is where it maps onto a sense of collective shame for the behaviour of one or some members of a group I belong to.

     In a Western sense men who assault women and children are solely liable and accountable for their actions. Yet to me that was always a narrow view; that while I was not responsible, nor personally accountable for what they had done – because I identified with their group I could nonetheless feel a sense of shame and embarrassment because of it. And this was my motivation to stand up and ensure I took what opportunities available to me to collectively discourage and prevent it.
     • Tracey 9.1.1

       22 December 2014 at 4:51 pm

       Thanks for this contribution RedLogix.

       You and Joan have articulated something I havent been able.

       I dont know if John Key has sexually or domestically abused anyone. Let us assume he hasnt for arguments sake.

       I am not asking to behave as though he has personally done so BUT I am saying that as a leader his articulation on this topic and his actions matter. When he chooses to mock Cunliffe as a substitute for mature dialogue on an important topic it is hard to take his advice that some boys need to grow up, when their leaders wont.
       • RedLogix 9.1.1.1

         22 December 2014 at 5:13 pm

         Exactly. Of all the shitty stunts I’ve seen Key pull this last few years – this is the one that really, really rankles with me personally.

         But despite this its a fact that what Key is doing here is a very calculated and effective strike on the left because the underlying meme does resonate with so very many New Zealanders.
         • Colonial Rawshark 9.1.1.1.1

           22 December 2014 at 5:17 pm

           I would say that’s exactly what National’s pollsters have been telling it, even post-election.
           • tracey 9.1.1.1.1.1

             22 December 2014 at 5:25 pm

             yes… and before the election hence my comment in the post about the disturbing number of kiwis with that attitude that he is playing to…
           • emergency mike 9.1.1.1.1.2

             22 December 2014 at 5:39 pm

             Indeed, people don’t like their cozy and familiar world view challenged with the possibility that they could be wrong and be in the wrong about something like this.

             National has gambled, correctly it seems, (especially with the MSM more than happy to gleefully/compliantly/complicitly play along with the ‘sorry for being a man’ show), that the public would rather latch on to the ‘oh those damn leftie liberal pinko killjoys’ angle than engage in the actual topic of Cunliffe’s speech.

             They played on the cognitive dissonance: is that nasty man David Cunliffe trying to say we are bad people or something? Or is he a damn leftie liberal pinko killjoy like John Key’s T-shirt says, like the TV news says… yeah that’s a much easier thought to accept, I’ll go with that…

             It would have been fine if we could have had some public debate about violence towards women in our society, instead we got everyone giggling and agreeing with Matthew Hooton & co that ‘sorry for being a man’ was a vote killer.

             Meanwhile, National cuts funding for rape crisis centers and other resources. Maybe their polling said that would be kewl too.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.2

       22 December 2014 at 9:23 pm

       …to me that was always a narrow view; that while I was not responsible, nor personally accountable for what they had done – because I identified with their group I could nonetheless feel a sense of shame and embarrassment …

       Thanks RL I’ve been trying to figure out how to articulate this too.
     • vto 9.1.3

       23 December 2014 at 12:17 pm

       You have put your point across well mr logix and it is along the lines of what was expected. In other words we should feel some responsibility/shame for those of our ‘identity groupings’ who transgress, though not the guilt etc.

       It is a fair point and for society to function properly this feature must exist of course.

       Personally I think sometime this feature is over-exaggerated in this male arena, evidenced by the sometime call “all men are rapists” for example, but subject to that minor qualifier you are correct and it applies to all identity groupings in society.

       I was hoping someone would flesh out a response to my question, which was struggling to be answered with mine own small brain, and you have done so well which I see others have noted.
   • Tracey 9.2

     22 December 2014 at 4:45 pm

     you seem to be doing ok talking to yourself, so why would I interupt?
     • George Hendry 9.2.1

       23 December 2014 at 11:13 am

       Thanks for this post Tracey 🙂

       To me it seems to have engendered the finest discussion thread found anywhere on this topic, particularly the contribution by Red Logix at 9.1. Notable too for the effective absence of trolls, whose task could be described as trying to stop shared understanding from reaching this level.

       The distinction made between shame (shared, collective) and guilt (individual) once understood will enable more males to share in the work of dismantling gender-based abuse. The fear that if a man expresses regret about it he will be seen as a soft target and almost immediately attacked for what harder targets have done, will be that little bit easier to address now that (thanks to threads like this one) understanding of the issue has been clearly realised.

       We might say the PM’s strategy is to blur the distinction between shame and guilt, pour scorn on both and be rewarded by a loyal voter bloc, so grateful that as long as they vote for him they will never have to say they’re sorry. In that they are human ( fallible, threatened) – if the issue goes away they might return to their normal unthreatened semireasonable behaviour.

       Were the government to maintain funding to Women’s Refuge and related groups I don’t think most such men would have a problem with that, because it would be a government decision and didn’t mean that they themselves needed to say sorry for anything. Funding gets cut to deliberately foment anguish and discord and thereby to deepen the social divide, and Mr Key’s job needs to be seen as including destroying NZ society by systematically shredding shared values and setting us at each other’s throats if we let him get away with it.
     • vto 9.2.2

       23 December 2014 at 12:11 pm

       Tracey, that is not much of a response to what was a genuine question, but I see RL has made a go of it above, which you have agreed with…..
       • tracey 9.2.2.1

         23 December 2014 at 1:51 pm

         I am sure you havent forgotten our “discussion” of that very thing in the past, and the loggerheads it led too. On that basis I thought you were wanting to travel that road again, something I didnt want to do. I am glad RL was able to adequately answer it.

         For me RL’s response is one of my nominees for comment of the year.
10. goldbloom 10

    22 December 2014 at 8:00 pm

    What about Hone who had a man charged with raping a young child on his side on election night. I found that especially appalling given what Mana were supposed to represent.

    The silence from Bomber was deafening in contrast to how outspoken he was about the Malaysian alleged rapist.
    • Colonial Rawshark 10.1

      22 December 2014 at 8:14 pm

      And if the staffer and employing MP had been UK Tory, they would have got away scot-free.

      By the way, have you ever tried to terminate someone’s employment on the basis that they have been charged (but not found guilty)? You’re begging for an employment lawsuit mate.
      • The Al1en 10.1.1

        22 December 2014 at 8:15 pm

        “And if the staffer and employing MP had been UK Tory, they would have got away scot-free.”

        And a life peerage
      • Tozer 10.1.2

        23 December 2014 at 8:01 am

        Actually I think you will find that anyone else facing those charges would have been ‘stood down’ from their role facing an employment investigation.

        In politics people get stood down based on mere suspicion or rumor when it comes to relatively minor matters. [RL: Deleted]
11. Reddelusion 11

    22 December 2014 at 8:21 pm

    I agree with VTO comment here, a very rare occurrenceindeed. I am not sure imposing collective guilt on one class no matter what reasoning you adopt, it simply sways that class away from the underlying issue, the very small minority of rat bag men out there
    • RedLogix 11.1

      22 December 2014 at 8:34 pm

      The word I used was shame. A related but different word to guilt. Perhaps you are incapable of it – which explains a lot.
    • Tracey 11.2

      23 December 2014 at 5:07 am

      That you and vto think the most important aspect of the post is that you should feel guilty is an interesting response.
      • vto 11.2.1

        24 December 2014 at 8:31 am

        That you assume I thought it the most important aspect of your post is more telling.

        assumptions eh ……… mind you, same as previous “discussions” we have had on various similar related issues …… full of assumptions.
        • Tracey 11.2.1.1

          24 December 2014 at 8:42 am

          As telling, not more telling.
12. Rodel 12

    22 December 2014 at 11:02 pm

    I thought you were going to suggest that Slater was a ‘man of the year’.
    In which case i was going to apologize for being a man.
    • Tracey 12.1

      23 December 2014 at 5:05 am

      I was guilty of click bait
13. Psycho Milt 13

    23 December 2014 at 6:09 am

    Last week during his busy time as PM, Key stopped at loads of FM radio stations and proudly wore a t-shirt proclaiming that he is not sorry to be a man.

    Well, yeah. We’re talking here about a guy who was happy to do a radio show with domestic violence enthusiast Vietchy and blather about which female celebs he’d like to fuck (Liz Hurley, whom Key considered “a bit old” at years younger than him). The shirt’s relatively restrained in comparison to that outing.

    I think people tend to forget what an obnoxious shithead lurks under that false bonhomie.
    • tracey 13.1

      23 December 2014 at 1:48 pm

      As for your last sentence, my deep fear is because so many agree with the sentiments he expresses and represents in this area.

      I had forgotten the liz hurley nonsense, so thanks for reminding us.
    • Murray Rawshark 13.2

      23 December 2014 at 6:00 pm

      Labour should have used that somehow. Someone who has adolescent fantasies about fucking movie stars shouldn’t be tasked with a demanding position. I’ve seen very little behaviour from Key that isn’t that of a badly adjusted adolescent. He was probably jealous of the roastbusters.
      • Tracey 13.2.1

        24 December 2014 at 8:44 am

        Unless his programmers and pollsters have devised the image cos they believe it will make him popular. He is afterall a manufactured politician and “leader”
      • Colonial Rawshark 13.2.2

        24 December 2014 at 8:48 am

        Murray. If you recall, Labour did indeed “use that incident” re: adolescent fantasies about movie stars:

        Phil Goff said that he would also include Elle McPherson and Julia Roberts in his own top five hot women list.

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4609295/Sexist-row-Key-stands-by-hot-Hurley-comments

        ***UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLEFROMLABOUR***
        • Tracey 13.2.2.1

          24 December 2014 at 9:00 am

          Shaking head

          It appears key and goff think leadership is defined as behaving like the lowest common denominator male.
          • Colonial Rawshark 13.2.2.1.1

            24 December 2014 at 9:19 am

            That, but worse IMO was the utter inability of Labour at that time to figure out how to land a political hit on Key, even as Key left his jaw hanging open and exposed.

            “Key shouldn’t be day dreaming of tits and ass while he’s on the NZ tax payers dollar”

            BOOOOM

            blokey vote won. conservative vote won. womens vote won. media soundbite war won.

            How fucking hard is this to do, seriously. I mean, Julia Roberts FFS
            • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 13.2.2.1.1.1

              24 December 2014 at 1:13 pm

              Mine would be Maggie Smith (from the time of the Prime of Miss Jean Brodie), Vanessa Redgrave and Judi Dench

              🙂

              Happy Christmas Eve, Everyone!
              • Colonial Rawshark …

                24 December 2014 at 1:15 pm

                LOL!
                • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark …

                  24 December 2014 at 1:33 pm

                  “If scandal is to your taste, … I shall give you a feast!”

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE1v7BW6UKk
                  • Colonial Rawshark …

                    24 December 2014 at 1:42 pm

                    “Fetid frustrations” LOL
        • Murray Rawshark 13.2.2.2

          24 December 2014 at 4:02 pm

          When I say Labour should have done something, it often turns out that Phil Goff, Shane Jones or some other moran had already tried and fucked it up. Hone would have said he only had eyes for Hilda.
14. vto 14

    26 December 2014 at 8:51 am

    repeated here from open mike 26th……..

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-26122014/#comment-944259

    So a couple days ago Tracey posted a post called “2014 Man of the Year” and suggested that men bear a larger burden of the responsibility for male domestic violence because of their gender.

    I suggested that was inappropriate but mr redlogix posted a good response outlining why identity groupings should be responsible for sectors of their indentity grouping who are criminals etc. http://thestandard.org.nz/2014-man-of-the-year/#comment-943260 It seemed to make some sense and garnered some support from others….

    …. Yet watching the muslim world at the moment trying to deal with the Isis mob and assorted ‘terrorists’ around the globe (Sydney, france, Canada), they deny and refute absolutely ANY responsibility or shame for that part of their identity grouping. They want nothing to do with Isis and reject completely any suggestion that it is partly their responsibility…. (sorry no links – the main one was on Al Jazeera yesterday, some interview with relevant spokespeople)………..

    So Tracey and Redlogix and OAB and others from the Man of the Year thread, how does that square with the pronouncement by the Muslim world? Are they shirking their responsibility for Isis? Or is that they are right and they have no reason to be responsible for what they termed the Isis ‘criminals’? And if so then I as a male in NZ have no responsibility for male criminals here.

    So what is the go ………..

    I suspect there will be a lurking pinhead that could have a dance attempted on it ….
    • karol 14.1

      26 December 2014 at 9:21 am

      False equivalence – the equivalent to a Muslim saying sorry for being a Muslim, would be a woman saying sorry, in the face of the (untrue) fact that most violence is done by women against men.
    • batweka 14.2

      26 December 2014 at 9:41 am

      ok, what was the point of posting this twice? It’s just going to get confusing now having two conversations running in different palces.

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