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Open mike 29/05/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 29th, 2011 - 62 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

62 comments on “Open mike 29/05/2011 ”

  1. mouse 1

    “Details of the campaign, to be launched soon in the lead-up to the referendum on MMP on election day in November, have been leaked to the Sunday Star-Times”


    Turkey’s promoting Thanksgiving!

    • Carol 1.1

      And the NZ Herald has recently made David Farrar it’s polical commenter. What is the role of NZ Herald going to be in this campaign?

      • Jim Nald 1.1.1

        “NZ Herald” – they should be honest and call the paper National’s Herald.

  2. Carol 2

    So Rachel Smalley is going to do a stint for TV3, embedded in Afghanistan with frontline troops:


    Given that such journalism rarely results in any critical reporting on war efforts, is this part of the payback to Joyce/Key for the debt bailout/leniency?

  3. ZeeBop 3

    So if we can throw someone out of the country for something out of their control, a disease reappearing, then can we throw migrants on visas who have say anorexia? Or was it the case that immigration decided that it did not like the individual in question, maybe the 700,000 dollars that he invested was from crime or something? That there is some other reason that he must go? Would he have a case of slander? I means if a decision is made about a substance of a matter that you actually have no control over, disease onset in the future, then you have been slandered? Do they teach good government in NZ? That its bad form to discriminate by asking the wrong question of individuals, do we only uphold group rights in NZ? If you are discriminated if you are a member of some group?

    • prism 3.1

      Haven’t caught up with this yet ZeeBop. Can you put the name and where reported so we can follow up the background in your comments.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

        This one. Interestingly, Immigration NZ tells it differently than how it was told in the news. The news seems to have left out a bit that he hadn’t been granted permanent residency.

        • prism

          Thanks DTB Some observations.
          1 Someone who buys into a garage is hardly an entrepreneur even if it fits into the criteria that the immigration service have set.
          2 $25,000 isn’t a huge amount to spend on an operation. And he is a working man, so adding to country’s revenues.
          3 There weren’t promises that he could stay but sometimes local people should have a say in whether someone is providing added value to their region. Immigration seems typically to be very rigid – the Minister should have some leeway figure each year to allow some extras to the quota if worthy.

          • ZeeBop

            I accept only a stupid plonker would sign up to a scheme and they invest three
            quarters of a million dollars in NZ where they stand to be chucked out 7? years later.
            I just think that a bureaucracy that creates such a system, where a man will
            be thrown out when something out of their control (return of an illness), is
            far more disastrous on the image of NZ.
            It shows a lack of care for future migrants.
            Any policy should decide at the airport gate if they are going to stay
            or not, if they bring in that much money into the country.
            As for the notice, rather sad, that he only brought a garage misses
            the point he made it a successful business.
            Do we want migrants just to pass through if they make a buck?
            Surely if they stay and they are expected to take up roots here, its
            unethical to expect them to sell off and leave after 7? years.
            If the policy was to support the economy it fails, designed to fail
            and send the wrong message.

  4. Carol 4

    A Sunday Star Times article by Sarah Harvey, quotes Stuart Carr from Massey University’s Poverty Research Groupsome Massey Uni research and David Cunliffe on the pay inequalities in NZ. This particularly refers to a dual pay system, whereby, as in poorer countries, senior execs/management are flown into NZ to work on higher wages than equivalent staff in NZ. It also gives the eg of Trans-Tasman Quantas-Jetconnect airline workers, with the Aussies being paid more than the Kiwis for the same job.


    But Labour spokesman David Cunliffe told the Sunday Star Times that New Zealand was looking “more and more like a developing country every day, and not even a particularly good developing country”.

    It has found throughout the world, expatriates are often paid a lot more money for doing the same job as their local counterparts.

    “It is happening increasingly in New Zealand because the gap between Australia has opened up now,” said Carr.


    Carr said a difference in pay between Aussies and Kiwis led to morale in the workplace being undermined.

    Carr is applying for funding to do further research on the effect of a high executive pay on the rest of the workers in New Zealand organisations.

  5. It had to happen
    Super Typhoon Songda Projected To Pass Over Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant

    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/26/2011 16:50 -0400

    So far the only good news to accompany the Fukushima catastrophe has been that for all the fallout, the radiation has been mostly contained due to Northwesterly winds which have been blowing any radioactivity mostly out and into the Pacific (coupled with relatively little rainfall), as well as the dispersion of irradiated cooling water which promptly enters the Pacific after which it is never heard of or seen again (there is at least a several year period before 3 eyed tuna fish feature prominently in restaurants across the country). This may be changing soon now that Super Typhoon Songda, which according to Weather Underground will form shortly as a Category 5 storm with 156+ mph winds, will take a northeasterly direction and 2 days later will pass right above Fukushima. The good news: by the time it passes over Fukushima, Songda will be merely a Tropical storm. The bad news: by the time it passes over Fukushima, Songda will be a Tropical storm. As the latest dispersion projection from ZAMG shows, over the next two days the I-131 plume will be covering all of the mainland. Although judging by how prominent this whole topic is in the MSM lately, it seems that conventional wisdom now agrees with Ann Coulter that radioactivity is actually quite good for you.

  6. Herodotus 6

    sad news i heard today Gil Scott Heron has sadly passed away. Most well know poem

    • Pascal's bookie 6.1

      Yeah man.

      Message to the messengers:

      We Beg Your Pardon:

      Work for peace:

  7. chris73 7

    So has Trev the Muss lost the plot? Or does he really believe this will win Labour votes?

    I mean when it comes to telling the truth I’d take Russell Normans word over Trevs and publicly challenging someone to a bike race?

    Or is it a mid-life crisis?

    • felix 7.1

      lol, I assume you’re referring to Quinn’s accidental moment of candour.

      You see the vid? Wallace asked him straight up are scantily clad women are just “asking for it”.

      He heard that just fine and that’s the question he answered. What else he heard or didn’t hear has no bearing on how he answered that question, Chris, unless you think there’s a way of interpreting the question that I haven’t thought of yet in which case do please share your insights.

      • chris73 7.1.1

        Paul Quinn has significant hearing loss (according to Willie J and John T) so if he says he didn’t hear the question properly (and in a crowded noisy bar thats quite possible) and having Russell Norman back him up I’d say he didn’t hear the question properly

        As I said when it comes down to telling the truth who do you believe, Trev “american bag men” the Muss or Russell Norman

        Me I’ll believe the Greenie because he hasn’t been proven a liar yet

        And for the record scantily clad women dont ask for it, drunk women dont ask for it, rape victims never ask for it

        However if I ever have daughters I’d be letting them know that getting blotto probably increases the chances of rape happening because there are guys out there who deliberatly target drunk women

        • felix

          You miss the point Chris.

          Quinn never said he didn’t hear the question I referred to, the one about women asking for it by dressing like sluts.

          He said he didn’t hear the preceding monologue on the subject of Slutwalk.

          Do you understand the difference? Whether or not he heard the monologue is irrelevant, as the question (which he answered directly) was unambiguous.

          For you to defend Quinn, you need to find an alternate interpretation of the question asked. The question he answered directly, as put to him, and which he has NOT complained he didn’t hear.

          Can you?

          • chris73

            Quite simply an attempted media beat up by Labour to try to gain some traction, which isn’t working

            • felix

              I’ll take that as a “no” then, unless you’d like another crack at it.

  8. Campbell Larsen 8

    Shame on the SST’s Imogen Neale – her article ‘alarm bells over legal highs as rehab bills hit parents’ is one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever seen.

    Allowing the totally discredited gateway drug myth to go unchallenged…and other such bullshit statements like “it’s a smooth transition from a synthetic joint to a P pipe”

    What a hack, do your fucking job lady.

    • MrSmith 8.1

      Why the media waste any ink at all on the SST is beyond me, can you give us a Link to the story please Campbell.

      • Campbell Larsen 8.1.1


        As you may have noticed I take a special interest in law and order issues esp in conjunction with drugs and mental health.

        I have already speculated that the Rats will try and ignore the elements of the law commission report that focuses on decriminalization and destigmatization of recreational drugs, choosing instead to use the pretense of drug courts (one of four recommendations) and a broad brush ‘treatment’ approach to drug users (ignoring alcohol of course – note the article on the same page claiming the we aren’t drinking that. much after all… Yeah right)

        This article went a long way towards confirming my suspicions that the Rats will continue to demonize the herb, chuck tons of corrections and health dollars towards their fundie mates and rubbish god bothering drug programs and do their damnedest to chuck as many weekend smokers and occasional pill takers into rehab as possible. Treatment centers, not prisons, we said no more prisons…

        It is 2011 for fucks sake NZ the war on drugs is and always was a lie – first cotton and now booze trying to protect their profit.

        Dick heads like Tom Claunch should know better, and prob would if he wasn’t so busy trying to drum up business with his histrionics.

  9. Salsy 9

    Finally Fran opens up the comments section. Good reading for Labour strategists for new ideas. Some are more terrifying than others…

    Fran you are again cheerleading for the totalitarian govt that is China
    The Chinese goverment is not investing in New Zealnd it is investing in China’s future and if we do as you say we will have no future.

    The truth is that China is not a democracy – it is a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship that has two faces. One you see on TV and the other you do not see from within its own borders.
    The Commonwealth of Nations has applied sanctions against Fiji and suspended its membership until it sets a path to return to democracy from a military dictatorship. Without hesitation China has injected funds into Fiji to maintain this government in place.

    “So what if they buy . . .”
    Do you want to be ‘owned’ by China? Already Key has refused to meet the Dalai Lama for fear of the Chinese dictators. Actually I don’t care about that. I should but I don’t.

    The Chinese got really p***** off when Norway gave the Nobel peace prize to the imprisoned Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo. They shouldn’t have done, but they did. Norway’s fresh salmon exports to China dropped 70 per cent in the first four months of the year after that prize was awarded and never recovered.

    • Jim Nald 9.1

      I hope the Chinese mafia are not injecting funds into the current lot of puppets on the government benches.
      If so, we are well and truly screwed, and the time is nigh to export ourselves, our kids and our future out of the country.

      • John D 9.1.1

        But Jim Hansen thinks the Chinese are cool.

        after all, “climate change” is the biggest moral challenge of our time, and we can’t let mere mortals run the show.

        • lprent

          Interesting. Can you explain his argument. Or are you too stupid to understand it.

          I will give you a hint. It involves the mix of technologies the Chinese are planning on using to increase their power supply. Even a idiot could figure it out from that…. Right?

    • millsy 9.2

      Good to see Fran getting down on her knees for the Politburo, long and slow….


      Come on darl, what did you get in return? A directorship just like Petain and Laval?


  10. prism 10

    A book reviewed this morning on Chris Laidlaw Radio nz on the Titanic disaster is a great piece of investigative history and family saga. Called ‘And the Band Played On’ the book was prompted by the death of the author’s 21 year old father, a violinist in the orchestra who with the others kept playing heard by those in lifeboats moving away from the ship despite the noise from boilers exploding as the ship sank.

    Insight of of dismissive attitudes to the lower classes show up. His body was recovered and put on ice in the hold of a rescue ship, which had coffins available but only for the first class. Women and children did get priority, but here the first class get priority again. The violinists parents received a bill for his brass buttons from the shipping company, his pay was stopped at the time of the sinking, and his parents wanting his body, were charged ordinary freight rates for transport back home. One of the executives of the company was amongst those in the lifeboats, no heroic gesture as with Astor.

    The story of the violinists family and how the Titanic affected it is riveting but there is much other stuff that didn’t receive coverage by the media at the time because they concentrated on the survivors’ stories. For instance the Titanic sister ship Olympia was due to sail from Southampton shortly after the sinking. Most of the 500 seamen due to work had lost friends or relations and they noted that Olympia too lacked sufficient lifeboats and withheld their labour till this was rectified. They were imprisoned for this.

    • Treetop 10.1

      See the centenary of the Titanic next year. I to enjoyed this interview and also the interview on Freud’s psychoanalysis, (in particular transference) on after 11 am. I have never agreed on Freud’s sexual psychoanalytical theory. Freud was also way off with the harmful impact that sexual assault causes.

      • prism 10.1.1

        Treetops – I can see that your mother and father have caused you stress and hindered your development. Please pay in large notes on the way out.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      And the capitalists keep telling us how great capitalism is. If we hadn’t stood up and demanded better wages, work conditions etc, we’d still be getting imprisoned for doing what’s right and I’m sure we’d still be getting told to die so that the rich could live – oh, that’s right, we do. That comes through loud and clear in the bene-bashing of National and Act.

      • Treetop 10.2.1

        In the book review that Prism raised, if you had a tatoo and a foreign name, you had the highest chance of being ditched at sea with the body retrieval. One wonders why they even went to the effort to check the body, only to throw it back in again. Interesting how they defined social class back then, todays equivalent is bene bashing.

      • prism 10.2.2

        DTB I think the latest evidence of the divide between classes is being played out over the Pike River deaths and the unwillingness to expend money there in a timely fashion to get the men out. I think that everybody knows there are class divisions here, who mix with a similar group and who are excluded always.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Does need to be pointed out more though. Once people realise that one group gets better treatment than everybody else at everybody else’s expense then there should be more support to move to a more egalitarian society.

          • M


            Class divide indeed – you might like this:


            ‘Such questions and such challenges to the legitimacy and prerogatives of the ruling class must never be allowed. Whenever events threaten to run out of control in this way, action will be taken to ensure that the privileges and power of the ruling class continue without interruption. Whatever else may be open to question or challenge, the power, the privileges and the prerogatives of the ruling class may never be threatened in a serious way.’

            • Colonial Viper

              Whatever else may be open to question or challenge, the power, the privileges and the prerogatives of the ruling class may never be threatened in a serious way.’

              Hmm not the way I remember the French Revolution happened 🙂

              • M

                CV, I think the American and French revolutions are up there but on the whole the privileged do manage to keep their position and wealth through subtle, not-so-subtle bullying and by getting the common folk to partipate in their own “slavery” the American Dream being one of the more blatant examples. As long as people think they have a chance at the brass ring then why should they try to be fair or think of others, not saying this applies to all, but still to a good many people. Like racism people often try to mask their hate by saying it’s more a question of class rather than colour and with class or money distinctions if people don’t have enough they’re lazy or whatever the sin du jour is.

                It seems many NZers are exhausted at keeping their heads above water and therefore their appetite for action is somewhat dulled or they’ve been seduced into thinking they can make it like John Key on a $50 a week tax cut that never seems to reach them but they hang in there hoping it will arrive one day. Hatred of their own class is inculcated through bene bashing though they secretly fear they may be next on the scrap heap. Maybe it’s a hangover of British reserve from times past but I read Gordon Campbell’s book ‘The Passionless People’ some years ago and believe it would be good if NZers could get a healthy dose of anger, enough to effect some real change and restoring the former national attitude of giving someone a fair go because it seems a distant memory to me. It sickens me now to think of kids missing out because their parents cannot make a go of things and I see it in my job more now a parent’s sense of helplessness and not being good enough – it sucks mightily.

            • Draco T Bastard

              An interesting article and one that follows my assertion that capitalism has been designed to enrich the few and everyone else’s expense. And I agree with him about the rules, the ones that matter, are there to control the many and don’t apply to the few.

              They are intentionally designed to protect the elites and to control everyone else. The elites may and will disregard them as they choose.

    • Vicky32 10.3

      Most of the 500 seamen due to work had lost friends or relations and they noted that Olympia too lacked sufficient lifeboats and withheld their labour till this was rectified. They were imprisoned for this.

      I had not known this, so thanks! That sounds very interesting. (I missed Laidlaw)

  11. There is a new catch phrase that is setting the Feminist
    blogosphere a buzz. It’s called “Mansplaining” it was
    first used a couple of years ago, but in the past six
    months it has taken off, and is widely and wrongly used
    in debates.

    Mansplaining means you are beginning condensing,
    patronizing and feel that you are correct because you
    are the man in the conversation.

    How utterly ridiculous that concept is. It takes any
    robust debate down to the gutter level, and is equivalent
    to little kids who would scream out “Your
    an idiot” during arguments with their classmates.

    If there is a debate on any subject, it doesn’t have to be
    political, it could even be about Apples or Pears, if you
    have a different opinion, a different point of view with
    a poster, and that poster is female and you are
    male, the word “MANSPLAINER” will be shouted
    from the rooftops from anyone who disagrees
    with your point of view.

    For example just the other day there was a debate on the
    always interesting “hand mirror” site, about if the Hamilton Casino
    is being honest about wanting to open 24/7 to attract high
    end punters from Asia, or are they really after, the local’s
    money, which could lead to social economic problems.

    I took the view that they are after the Visiting Asian Market,
    while the poster “Stargazer” believe this wasn’t the case and
    they were after the local market, thus causing problems for
    the local community.

    Well, let the Mansplaining comments begin, apparently I was
    Mansplaining, and then I was Mansplaining again by explaining
    that I just have a different point of view.

    Of course it wasn’t a case of mansplaining, I was just
    pointing out my thoughts on the subject, like the
    poster “Stargazer” was pointing out their’s.

    I wonder how the posters would of commented if I had
    of been a female? they couldn’t use the term Mansplainer,
    and that is where using the term Mansplainer falls down.

    You are basically saying any male that is debating a female
    on any given topic is a Mansplainer, and that is not even close to

    Oh for the record, I thought the poster
    “Stargazer” was male, although it didnt matter to me what gender
    she was.

    It matters to some people though.

    • Jum 11.1

      Brett Dale,

      Yes I checked it out on your website. It certainly made me laugh. Try and put it in context, lad, there’s a dear.

      For a very small section of all these thousands of years, from the time women were silly enough to allow you men any freedoms, and you started raping, battering, killing in order to control them, women have actually had a say over their own lives. Wow.

      There is also, I hate… to tell you, Brett Dale, a lot of truth to this mansplaining as being patriarchal and condescending.

      Ride it out; women still love the male race, I daresay.

      • dad4justice 11.1.1

        Nice to see Jum loves the male ace.

        • Jum


          I said ‘race’ lad, not ‘ace’ – check your spelling.

          You will also note I said ‘women will’ not Jum will – I prefer to judge case by case. Check your facts you woman and Labour hater, you.

    • McFlock 11.2

      wow – you come running here because people at the HandMirror were mean to you?
      That’s pretty sad, dude.

    • John D 11.3


      Try this Harry Enfield video for a laugh

  12. freedom 12

    Regarding this morning’s Q&A with Sam Morgan…. Can anyone remember the Dwarf ever asking any previous guest if they pay income tax? (And wow, imagine if it became a regular question?)

    Sure Holmes presented it as if the question came from an unnamed viewer but all i got was alarm bells that ‘they’ are seeding some sort of smear campaign against a very long overdue project.

  13. Am I the only person from the Left who is sick of Mat McCarten’s continuous attacks on Phil Goff. I’m beginning to think that he is a closet Tory. If he is a Leftie as he claims why is he not attacking the Nats and ACT instead of telling us that Labour/Goff will not win . Tell enough people the same old tale and they will start to believe it. His column in todays Herald is full of anti- Labour codswallop ,and I for one have had enough,

    • ianmac 13.1

      Yes pink postman. With friends on the Left such as Matt McCarten and Trotter, who needs enemies!

      • Carol 13.1.1

        Agree, PP. Why is McCarten following the US line in presidential style personality politics?

        • Jum

          McCarten and Trotter are attacking Phil Goff because they want some fantasy of the labouring man back. The labouring man has found google; he actually drinks wine just as often as he drinks beer; he even in most cases understands (at least I hope so) that women are actually human beings and that they are not the enemy – the rightwing, neo-conservative pinochet NActs are.

          Meanwhile, McCarten wants more votes for Harawira and Trotter just hates women; mind you, Trotter was correct when he stated that women had let the side down by voting for Key over the Herceptin bribe. I hope women’re a bit more discerning this year.

    • millsy 13.2

      Maybe its because that Goff is actually useless and is not going to win this year, no matter how you try and spin it.

      In saying that, Labour had its oppurtunity to oust him and blew it. So it looks like that Labour is heading to a record defeat.

      Not that there is anyone else to vote for. The Greens, or Hone and his rickety bandwagon. Hardly inspiring.

  14. Anne 14

    There is another possible aspect to their anti-Goff stance. Both McCarten and Trotter seem to me to be first and foremost very pro-themselves. They’ve been preaching the ‘get rid of Phil Goff’ line for so long they need to keep reinforcing it because their individual egos couldn’t cope with being seen to be wrong.

    • Jum 14.1


      I like McCarten; he has done a huge amount of work for workers under the Unite Union flag, but he is attacking Goff and by that attack, Labour and Progressive and the Greens. He needs to think about his end goal. NActMU will be loving it. I will be wondering what they have promised McCarten (no he would never take a bribe to sell out the worker) but Trotter; that’s quite a different story.

  15. Anne 15

    Yes, I’ve also had a lot of time for McCarten in the past. Much of his commentary has been sound and insightful. The same goes for Trotter. This makes it even harder to understand why they have chosen to be so vitriolic towards Goff. They, more than most, would know exactly the difficulties Goff and Labour face after 9 years in govt., and then thrown on the scrap heap by a bunch of wealthy NAct charlatans. I go back to my original comment and can only wonder whether their respective reputations in the current National (and Key) aligned media-world has become more important to them.

  16. Chris 16

    Goff will not win the election for Labour. How many times does this have to be repeated ? Most here seem to be in denial. It has been said enough to become a reality.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      don’t try and pretend you are an alchemist who can magick something up by repeating a right wing incantation.

  17. Drakula 17

    I think this is high time Standard, McCarten, Trotter, Goff, the Progressives (Anderton?) and the Greens got round the table !

    Failing that the chances are that your children could be talking very polite Chinese to their new overlords!!!!

  18. Draco T Bastard 18

    Bernard Hickey on the governments policy of increasing the value of the NZ$ on the international markets.

    The Government is essentially deciding that borrowing money and selling assets is an easier decision than increasing prices for stressed consumers.

    • ZeeBop 18.1

      Think NZ as a company, heavily in debt, ripe for takeover and asset stripping.
      Now think John Key as CEO going to China, asking China to do the chopping.
      Here, NZ on a plate, now feed on it damn it.

      People who have too much debt, companies who have too much debt,
      are paying interest or profits, to foreigners. And that can’t continue,
      it just makes it harder to get out of, and so why is Key rushing to
      dig us even further in?

      Its simple, our exports are wanted globally, so why not raise taxes and
      let a few , more Crafers go to the wall. There are lots of farm workers
      who would love to run their own farms but can’t afford it. Government
      should buy Carfers and offer low interest loans like it does to
      first time home owners.

      Its just shocking how lazy, how little National will do to help NZ get ahead.

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