Heather Grimwood: "beliefs held ” unreflectively” have surely arrived through some sort of brainwashing, be it role modelling, actual teaching, or subliminal or hard propaganda" I agree. People acquire beliefs from a multiplicity of sources, and those ...
Stuart Munro: "...the cheating I encountered however, and my friends who’ve taught at Otago med school tell me that they too ran across it." I've heard the same thing about Otago uni, and not from the med school. Anent the latter, though, a member of this ...
Maggie: "What is concerning is that all the original returning soldiers have died yet this attitude remains." I've pointed out that the RSA was originally set up exclusively for ANZAC servicemen. Since all the ANZACs are dead, it'd be pointless for it to ...
Maggie: "you’ve failed to acknowledge that the cross, a profoundly christian symbol, is frequently used as an adornment regardless of religious affiliation." The cross is worn by people from a Christian background, even if they're no longer churchgoers. ...
Maggie: "The thing is, if Muslims had said they didn’t want christian prayers at their memorial service there would have be a full-on meltdown. Head would have literally exploded with indignation." And you base this claim on....what exactly? It's wildly ...
Peterlepaysan: "He was brown skinned and never served in a NZ or oz force. RSA did not want to know." It wouldn't have been skin colour. It was the fact that the RSA was originally set up for former ANZAC servicemen. Others - including the Brits - weren't ...
Peterlepaysan: "The fact that Turks are mainly, not entirely, moslem is irrelevant. The Turks were defending their land against a foreign invader. Religion is irrelevant." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_V "'Mehmed V's most significant political act...
Maggie: "unreliable source" Eh? You're characterising Women's Refuge as an unreliable source? That'll come as a surprise to them. "Because of those considerations we can safely infer that the rates of IPV are higher than reported for Muslims but can’t ...
Peterlepaysan: "For heavens sake Gallipoli was a monumental mistake of THE BRITISH EMPIRE." Yeah, we're aware of the history. There's this, though. Had the Gallipoli campaign been a success for the Empire, there would likely have been no Armenian genocide....
McFlock: "Given the long-standing history of Muslims in NZ, how do we actually know that none of our WW1 soldiers were not Muslim?" A member of this household with specialist knowledge of this sort of thing is of the view that they wouldn't have been ...
Maggie: "You argumentum ad populum responses..." Heh! I'd set my responses against your reductio ad absurdum claims any day.
greywarshark: "So when all the old soldiers die who only cared about GB anyway according to you, then we will stop having Anzac Day." Did you actually read what I wrote? Seems not. "If the RSA is only interested in glorifying ww1 then i won’t go to any ...
Maggie: "Just not ALL WW1 soldiers right?" No, of course not. All other combatants in WW1 have their own memorials. "And you never answered my question… How does having a Muslim praying at the service change who the service is for?" Yeah. I did. "I welcome...
Drowsy M Kram: "It’s a grey area, and Ardern’s gesture was not welcomed by some Muslims (for various reasons), but on balance it was a genuine and visible expression of support, IMO." While for many NZers and Muslims, the hijab is a symbol of Islam, it's ...
AJ: "In Australia ANZAC Day has been completely co-opted by the right side of politics and focuses almost totally on Gallipoli. You would almost think the rest of WW1 didn’t happen." Heh, indeed. They also ignore the NZ part of ANZAC. A relative there ...
Maggie: "How does having a Muslim cleric praying at the service change who the service is for?" My folks weren't Muslim. It'd be downright weird, having a Muslim pray for them. I'm absolutely certain they would have taken a very dim view of it. "Even ...
WeTheBleeple: "Well that’s not accurate is it. Pull it out of your head?" Shakti. No smoke without fire, qu'on dit. See this: https://womensrefuge.org.nz/get-help/migrant-and-refugee-women/ I listen to the radio a good deal: always have. I recall years ago...
Maggie: "Imagine if we refused any more Anzac day services. Imagine if we said ‘We’ve already taken appropriate measures, recognised their service and now it’s time to call it a day’." Well now. Given that, in this household, we'd prefer a simple memorial ...
WeTheBleeple: "You’d like to blame the Muslims for an Australian white supremacist terrorist attack against New Zealanders and NZ’s guests on NZ soil." And here you are, attributing to me motivations I don't have. Examine your own conscience: leave me out ...
McFlock: "...how do we actually know that none of our WW1 soldiers were not Muslim?" I assume that you mean none were Muslim. Probably not particularly likely, given the circumstances: Gallipoli and all that. I've read the lists of the soldiers with whom ...
Heather Grimwood: "I wasn’t lecturing!…" That comment wasn't aimed at you, but at the original post. I simply repeated it. It is, however, vitally important not to lecture - or be seen to lecture - Joe Public about views that they have probably ...
Greywarshark: "In a way I feel that Anzac Day should be a bit nationalistic – for the reason that the dead soldiers did go as a national force." Your view, and fair enough. Though I understand from older relatives that our soldiers were motivated more by ...
WeTheBleeple: "Gee, let’s play that game, where we swap out religions and find them lacking." Good grief. This entire comment is a bit of a rant, no? You're preaching to the converted, as it happens. In virtue of what would you assume that anyone here ...
Heather Grimwood: "Just as we have seen our P.M. lead a surge towards it..." I agree with the PM's handling of the awful shootings' aftermath, except for her wearing of the hijab. That was a serious misstep, in my view. This is a secular state: whatever ...
Esoteric Pineapples: "I’ve felt Anzac Day has been taking on a nationalist tone over the past few years..." My view as well. That's why I'd prefer that it return to its original purpose. Nationalism is what it is: not bad or good. But nevertheless I see it...
My family has a direct connection to the disaster of Gallipoli. Three of my uncles fought there; two were killed. No recoverable remains: their names are on the NZ memorial there. In this household,the instantaneous reaction to having an imam at the ...
Fustercluck: "But hanging your hat on this kind of tenuous BS is farcical." I couldn't agree more. The usual suspects are screeching predictably about the Mueller report. Do the rest of us a favour, MS, and give this story a rest.
Adrian Thornton: "As far as Clarke goes, I feel no forgiveness for her..." Yup. On reflection, maybe I was being a bit too kind to her. Our country certainly need to trade, though we sure could have done without the neoliberal free trade policies. At the ...
Rosemary McDonald: "Perhaps he was genuinely surprised by the guy with the eftpos machine? He’s a terrorist remember. Those he was terrorising were supposed to be paralysed with fear. Reading his manifesto, well some of it, folks fighting back was not part...
Adrian Thornton: "You seriously put Ardern in the same category as Savage and Kirk…exactly what of substance has she done for the people this country.." I agree with you, but it seems to me that it's possible to acknowledge that she's responded sensitively...
Bewildered: ".... public blubbering, shaking and weeping is not necessary empathy, look at Mark Lundy" Heh! Indeed. Who could forget that?
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