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All the World’s A Square

Written By: - Date published: 5:38 pm, July 31st, 2011 - 40 comments
Categories: accountability, activism, capitalism, class war, democracy under attack, democratic participation, economy - Tags:

 

40 comments on “All the World’s A Square ”

  1. Colonial Viper 1

    As Max Keiser says, time to sort out the bankster occupiers, and the crony kleptocrats that they have inserted into governments and governmental institutions all over the world.

    The way that Greece is being gutted now is that their government is working hand in hand with the IMF, ECB and the big banks. The Greek government is signing over every major Greek public asset as collateral for bailout monies (more debt on top of already vast debt) which is only going to keep Greece afloat for a few more months *at best*.

    This is political leaders selling out their people for bailout money which isn’t even going to go to the people – it is going to go straight to the creditors ie. the bankster occupiers.

  2. Colonial Viper 2

    Get this – Goldman Sachs can access hundreds of billions in US Fed funds at 0.25% pa or less. If you are Greece – sorry, you have to pay around 6% pa.

    So GS lends money they got from the US Fed at 0.25% pa to Greece at 6% pa. Ever wonder how the big investment banks make so much money every quarter?

    Banksters win every time, citizens lose every time.

    Also: Max Keiser episode 157 on Greece

    • Bill 2.1

      Stumbled across this web site earlier today. I might be the last person to know about it. Dunno. But there are a lot of very interesting looking documentaries.

      http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        OMG there goes my working week 🙂

      • Afewknowthetruth 2.1.2

        Sorry Bill, those are second rate.

        Top documentaries are

        Blind Spot
        End Civ
        Arithmentic Population and Energy
        Century of the Self
        The Power of Nightmares
        The Story of Crude
        Inside Job
        Shock Doctrine
        The War You Don’t See
        Money as Debt
        The Money Masters
        What a Way to Go
        The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

        The Zeitgeist series (1.2.3) are good. but present unworkable ‘solutions’ to the predicament we are in.

        Burn Up is a great docudrama.

        • Bill 2.1.2.1

          afknt.

          You didn’t even browse the list, did you? Had a quick for ones you listed that struck me as possibly being about economics under their ‘economy’ section and found ‘Money as Debt’ (parts 1 and 2) and ‘ The Money Masters’ within seconds.

          Anyway. No idea if what’s on offer is good. i said it looked interesting

      • RedLogix 2.1.3

        Yeah strangely enough I stumbled onit last night too. There went my beauty sleep.

        PS The OP vid is beautifully put together, very effective. Certainly far more potent than the written word alone.

    • Gosman 2.2

      Your analysis of the situation just shows how ignorant you are about global finance.

      Pray tell how is the US lending money to Goldman Sachs at the sort of levels Greece requires when it is currently having problems with a debt ceiling?

      • vto 2.2.1

        Gosman, what CV said is that it is the Federal Reserve lending the money to Goldman Sachs at 0.25% p.a., not the US government lending the money.

        The Federal Reserve is privately owned and issues all the US money.

        The US government does not issue any money. It just borrows and taxes.

        Wrong aint it.

        • Gosman 2.2.1.1

          Ummmm…. The issue still remains. The Federal reserve can’t just create credit at the level you and CV suggest it could without quite a large negative consequences. It certainly wouldn’t be doing it just so Goldman Sachs can immediately take the funds and lend it to the Greek Government.

          • vto 2.2.1.1.1

            Really? You sound very convinced on that, which is surprising when you had no idea of the basics of where US money comes from.

            • Gosman 2.2.1.1.1.1

              I’ve worked for a number of Investment banks. The amounts of capital that is involved in large loans is not sourced by simply borrowing it from the Federal Reserve. do you have any evidence suggesting otherwise?

              • Bill

                Correct me if I’m wrong gosman.

                The government ‘creates’ money through the issue of bonds that banks buy. Those bonds bear interest that the government pays to the bond holder. So it costs the government money to ‘make money’ (via interest payments on the bond issue). And the banks make money on the bond issue (the interest component) plus they make more money from the interest they charge on lending on the value of the bond to others.

                Is that way wide of the mark or pretty much how it works?

                • Gosman

                  That’s not what weare talking about here. Colonial Viper is claiming that the Federal Reserve is lending money to Investment banks which then use this money to lend at a higher rate to countries like Greece. If it was possible to do this then the question becomes why doesn’t the Federal Government borrow money from the Federal reserve at this rate and then on lend to Goldman Sachs and ultimately Greece. It would seem to be a no brainer to raise revenue. However I suspect they don’t because it is a little more complex than people like C.V and VTO think it is.

              • mik e

                Yes the US Govt under George W Bush bailed out Goldman Sachs to the tune of $700billion dollars over Meryll lynch and a couple of other Investment banks who got shafted because they weren’t Republican insiders so the competition was completely cleared out of the way for Goldman Sachs to monopolize the investment banking World and make more profits than ever off the back of that printed money lent to them at 1/2% .The CEO’s and high end bankers paid themselves even bigger bonuses than ever. maybe you got b mixed up with w!

  3. Brilliant video. The one thing all elites fear – the people, together; in charge.

    Anything but that. 

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      The thing is that the Greek Parliament have been ignoring the people for months now. The Socialist Party was elected on a no-austerity platform, and within a few weeks they had capitulated to the bankers (maybe that was the plan all along).

      I don’t see how the security forces can continue to work for the govt in an instance like this.

      Bet you law enforcement and army arent getting pay and pension cuts.

      Something is rotten when this is ‘democracy’.

      • Gosman 3.1.1

        I’d love to see your proposal for Greece.

        Would it be to stop paying the debt and drop out of the Euro? If so how would it fund the massive budget deficit that it is currently running, not to mention the current account problems?

        You would end up like the situation in Zimbabwe where the Government and country goes broke.

        • Bored 3.1.1.1

          A question Gos…who are you worried about? Those in debt or those holding the debt?

          Another quite obvious question…if a country has unsupportable and unpayable debts why the hell would you:
          * as the loan them more if you are the banker?
          * take the loan if you are in debt?

          I look forward to your obvious wisdom on international finance……I shall now go off to make the wheels of capitalism revolve until later in the glowing anticipation of your real world wisdom.

          • Gosman 3.1.1.1.1

            The Greeks need to take a serious does of austerity measures. The reason they need the loan is to cushion them through the austerity. The alternative is that they have to rely completely on locally raised funds and this would mean that they would have to make bigger and harsher cuts to social spending.

          • Gosman 3.1.1.1.2

            You do realise that what you ae suggesting actually happened in Zimbabwe. They simply stopped paying external debts because they couldn’t support them anymore. It didn’t make things easier for them but harder. The Government had to print currency to fund government expenditure, which in turn led to Hyper-inflation and the destruction of their productive base. The only thing that saved them is when they abandoned the Zimbabwe dollar and went to a US dollar/SA Rand based economy. This meant though the Government is severly restricted in what it can do both fiscally and monetary wise. Are you suggesting Greece goes down this track?

        • vto 3.1.1.2

          I give you a proposal mr gos, the banksters can get stuffed.

          The Greek government should tell the creditors that, “sorry, times and circumstances have changed and we cannot repay your loan at the moment. Once we have attended to our domestic matters we will attend to repaying your loan. That will probably be in 5 to 10 years. Sorry fullas, but that is what loans are about – sometimes they get repaid and sometimes they don’t.”

          Then the Greeks should do what everuone else does and start printing their own money. Lordy, who would hold money these days …..

          • Gosman 3.1.1.2.1

            Read my previous post above this one.

            Are you suggesting the Greek Government, (and others), follow the Zimbabwe example?

            • vto 3.1.1.2.1.1

              Yes. Zimbabwe and Greece are not alike.

              Lenders have acted like drug dealers to the hopelessly addicted politicians – get people hooked and then hook into them.

              • Gosman

                The Zanu-PF government in Zimbabwe claims exactly what you state. That they were forced to take on all these nasty loans to fund the unsustainable Government spending. People who get themselves into a mess like Zimbabwe and Greece tend to blame anyone or thing they can rather than taking responsibility for their own bad habits.

            • Bill 3.1.1.2.1.2

              They could follow the Argentine or Honduras example. Default. Make the lenders ‘take a hair cut’… 70% in the case of Honduras I believe. (Or might have been Equador…memory sketchy)

              • Gosman

                That’s fine until these nations require further foreign capital. Then they will have difficulty raising it.

                • Bill

                  They haven’t had any trouble on that front. Seems the foreign capital is desperate for a home; for an opportunity to invest.

                  • Bored

                    Gos, had a quick look at your replies, you have not addressed:
                    *WHO you are worried about?
                    *The Catch 22 nature of the problem from the viewpoint of the lender or borrower.

                    Whats the cure? You contend that to default takes you down the Zimbabwe path…I contend that to default is better for the lender and borrower than further debt that must be faced at some point.

                    You have told us why you think not defaulting is a good idea, you have not told us how you get out of the cycle when it is patently obvious that the debt level is not able to be reduced or paid. So how exactly do you break the cycle?

                    PS Dont answer “growth” or “free market forces” ( one is not possible and the other is palpably part of the problem).

                    Back to work….hiho hiho…

                    • Gosman

                      Actually I think a negotiated hair cut proposal is the best solution. Coupled with massive Austerity measures. However everything comes at a price. Even a negotiated write down in debt will make it more difficult for Greece to borrow money in future. That is as it should be. They are a dodgy credit risk because of the failed left wing policies they followed for the past few decades.

                    • Bored

                      In which case Gos, as sure as day follows night countries such as Greece will fall out of the global finance system, the bankers will find less and less people able to take on debt…contraction in the core financial exchanges and mega banks will become the accelerated norm. The system is not set up to lose consumers and debtors and will lurch toward another crisis of debt outweighing ability to service somewhere else until it consumes itself. And that is precisely why finance is so keen on bail outs, its that or go bust themselves.

                      Oh, forgot…this socialist policy experiment….what a load of complete bollocks. A very Tea Party outlook, any government spending except on policing private property and incarcerating people is deemed socialist.

                      Ho hum, hiho hiho its back to work.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      best solution is an immediate default with negotiations to finally pay back 20c-25c in the dollar of principal. Greece did it in the 20th century, the country made it through that, and it can do it again.

                      btw a “haircut” is considered a technical default anyway, by the major ratings agencies.

      • Puddleglum 3.1.2

        Yes, CV. My point was that having the people in charge rather than those who ‘know what’s best’ is the great fear that inspires this kind of brutal clampdown on the populace while the politicians, financiers and the like do ‘what needs to be done’.

        It’s interesting that the left is often accused of having an ‘arrogant’, ‘we know best’ approach but the kind of aggressive imposition of austerity measures is all based on the ‘we know best’ meme.

        That is, it is actually the elite who always ‘know best’ and get irritated with ‘the people’ because they’re self-indulgent, ‘live beyond their means’, etc. – all the time forgetting that the elite have always been in control and had the final say, as current events in Greece prove. They would have stopped the party at any time if it had not been in their interests to let it rumba on.

  4. Tombstone 4

    Thanks for posting.

  5. Paul 5

    I would recommend all documentaries by Adam Curtis, particularly the Century of the Self
    The Power of Nightmares and the Trap. He’s just made another one called All Watched Over By Machines Of Loving Grace. His ideas are thought provoking.
    For the present economic crisis, have a look at Inside Job, Capitalism, a Love story, Debtocracy( looks at the Greek situation in particular), and Obama, Lifting the Veil.

  6. felix 6

    Gosman watches the same video we did.

    But when he does, he sympathises with the thugs.

  7. Afewknowthetruth 7

    Bill.

    I DID have a look at the website you linked. From memory it was headed by Zeitgeist, which provides good insight into our delemma but then goes on to offer faux solutions.

    I think you will find the list I provided well worth the effort of reseaching.

  8. mik e 8

    GossipMan Greece has been following more like borrow and hope Bill English and not paying any taxes like NATS/ACT policies. These big European banks have been lending money to a bankrupt state what sort of finance company does that.A corrupt one that knows that Germany will bail out these banks because they are blackmailing them by threatening to dry up all funds to the rest of Europe.Greeces lotto was sold for 400 million euros in a fire sale to pay back debt,it makes a profit of 900 milllion euros per annum making the company worth anything between 10 & 20 billion euros . I smell corruption. Bill English is trying to sell assets worth $10 to $12 billion here for $6to$7 billion I smell corruption. YEAH Gosman I’m sure you have got big B mixed up with big W

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