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Alt Reich Speakers get Visas; still lack Empathy, Compassion and Humanity

Written By: - Date published: 12:16 pm, July 20th, 2018 - 132 comments
Categories: class war, International, Politics, racism - Tags:

The two Canadian bigots Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux have now been granted 10 day work visas to visit New Zealand. They’ll be here in a fortnight.

A clearly disappointed Immigration Minister, Iain Lees Galloway, says that the pair’s views are out of step with Kiwi values:

“INZ’s decision in no way condones the views expressed by the pair, which are repugnant to this Government and run counter to the kind and tolerant values of the vast majority of New Zealanders.”

That’s exactly right. The alt Reich activist racists are repugnant, unkind and intolerant.

The pro-fascist backers of the visit, who hide behind snowflake flavoured whines about “free speech”, will be delighted. Ignore these sad, tired, old white men. They’ve had their day, which, from memory was sometime in September 1939.

Build the resistance to modern fascism. Let’s picket the hate away.

That’s assuming, of course, that Axiomatic, the Aussie company promoting the tour can find a venue. Legal papers filed in the Hate Speech Coalition’s lawsuit against Phil Goff admitted that private companies as well as public authorities refused to give these bigots a platform. Fair call that.

Axiomatic, by the way, is a one man band run by far right grub David Pellowe. He’s not the sharpest tool in the box, but he knows there money to be made in hate speech, so he’s going for it.

Let’s make sure that Southern and Molyneux get the message that we fought and beat their brown shirted predecessors in the forties, battled against apartheid in the seventies and eighties, rejected Don Brash’s dog whistles in the 2000’s and we’re not letting racism rise again here in Aotearoa.

No freedom for fascism, no platform for parasites!


To finish on a high note, here’s a song that reminds us that most of what comes out of Canada is thoughtful, respectful and often truly wonderful. This clip is from the Tragically Hip’s final tour before cancer took singer Gord Downie. The moment where the dying Downie forgets the lyrics and a bandmate walks over to sing the line is solidarity at its finest.



132 comments on “Alt Reich Speakers get Visas; still lack Empathy, Compassion and Humanity”

  1. Morrissey 1

    They let Hillary Clinton in. And they gave her a state reception.

    • False equivalence. Make a relevant point or piss off, Moz.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1

        I didn’t suggest they were equivalent. The Canadians are obnoxious and vile, but as far as I know, they have not voted in favour of the destruction of Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq, and neither have they ever uttered anything as coarse and depraved as this:

        • te reo putake

          Move on, Moz. HRC can’t hurt you now. Please make your next comment, if you have one, about the OP.

          • Morrissey

            Fair enough, Te Reo. Meanwhile, allow me to point you to the following error in your otherwise excellent article….

            A clearly disappointment Immigration Minister, Iain Lees Galloway….

            Eagle-eyed readers will already have made the mental adjustment to “A clearly disappointed Immigration Minister, Iain Lees Galloway….”

            Best wishes, and it’s really great to have you back.

  2. Puckish Rogue 2

    A quote attributed to Huey Long:

    “When fascism comes to America it will be called anti-fascism.”

    Substitute America for NZ and he seemed to be quite prescient

    • jimekus 2.1

      Likewise the apartheid racist Jews, who support the lawsuit by Free Speech Coalition member and maybe Israel Institute of New Zealand co-director, Dr David Cumin, who Google says also is/was a member of the New Zealand Jewish Council, along with all those who think the far right is offering them authentic ‘friendship’ are clearly capable of particularly delusional thinking.

      • Morrissey 2.1.1

        ….the apartheid racist Jews….


        Please don’t speak about people in such crude and inaccurate racial terms. David Cumin does not speak for all Jews in New Zealand. He is in fact an extreme opponent of free speech, as anyone who listened to his attack on Marama Davidson knows only too well…..


        • jimekus

          I wasn’t talking about all Jews, just accurately describing those supporting the alt.right extremists. I was paraphrasing a well known phenomenon for, “Why Israeli Fanboys Back a U.K. Far Right anti-Muslim Campaigner. At their Tel Aviv rally, supporters of the alt-right’s latest free speech ‘martyr’ accused the U.K. of ‘subservience to Islam.'”

          • corodale

            standard stuff – divide and conquer – poor Israelis born into a maelstorm of fear and propaganda.

            • jimekus

              It’s more like “the enemy of my enemy…” which is causing the splintering of the battle lines, and how we now see BDS aligning with anti-fascism.


              “The reason the legitimacy of anti-fascist and pro-Palestinian work is denied by the right and by supporters of Israeli state policies is that our alliance exposes a contradiction we see more and more of globally: the strange convergence of supporters of Israel with virulently anti-Semitic far-right individuals and organizations. These forces deny their own anti-Semitism to normalize fascism and gain political power. Israel is an accomplice in this, willing to accept such hypocritical denials.”

              • corodale

                So basically,
                they back all political movements,
                fill them with violent propaganda,
                til they fight each-other,
                til the babylonian bankers are the last ones standing.

                Just like these satanists backed the Nazis to eliminate the moderate Jews, to pave the way for their banking imperialism under the false flag of an Israeli nation.

                Shanti, shanti, shanti.

                • jimekus

                  The violent propaganda you talk of masks the fake history behind their country of false origins. What will stop their Orwellian control of the past from translating into the future is catastrophic climate change, and because it has no solution, there won’t be a recorded history beyond our near term human extinction.

                  Real history is genetic in most Europeans. They descend from the couple of thousand Romans who were alive for them around the time of Julius Caesar. This history remembers his ancestors being driven from Philistine to Northern Italy. BDS is for these people, some of whom reject neo-liberalism and they do not need a political movement.

                  Unlike the Stefan Molyneux types who’s entire political identities are in conflict with the global warming predicament, BDS simply exists. In the current post-Hollywood world, BDS will be like the deer in the headlights, aka Winston Smith with Eyes Wide Shut, watching the cannibals starving from over population, particularly the expected extra 3 billion Africans eating their way north through the barren wastelands.

                  If humans don’t go extinct, descendants of less than ten or so will again walk across to Alaska in 45,000 years or so. See “The Long Way Back To Now . . TIME TRAVEL by Jimekus”

      • corodale 2.1.2

        Careful, they tricked you into bad words. It’s the gangster State of Israel, trying to claim the label of Judism, for Satanic purposes. Keep an eye on the light. There are millions of Jewish praying for peace, join with them. Together we are stronger than the darkness.

        • jimekus

          The words weren’t bad, and far from being wildly over exaggerating, at most the phrase was doubly redundant.

    • D'Esterre 2.2

      Puckish Rogue: “When fascism comes to America it will be called anti-fascism.”

      We’ve long been fed tales of right-wing violence in the US. But this link blows those claims out of the water. I’m old enough to remember all but the very earliest of these events. To my great shame, I wasn’t shocked by them at the time, though I certainly am now. In my defence, I do think that it was the zeitgeist of the time. They occurred – and were reported on – in an environment of left-wing liberation movements, decolonisation, the rise of feminism, civil rights and so on. Of course the msm was generally liberal then. As it is now. And in this country, we had no journalists specialising in foreign affairs at the time; so there was nobody with the background knowledge to provide critique of such events.


  3. They let in Tony Blair, and he is a candidate for actual War crime charges.

    And we haven’t deported Hosking, who lacks Empathy, Compassion and Humanity, and really needs a one way ticket to Hawaii with a guaranteed job as a golf caddies shoe shiner.

    My guess is even if these two get viable audience numbers, and that only thanks to the free publicity via the media, they will be swamped by protestors.

  4. Chris T 4

    Common sense prevails

    Next can Goff please pull his head in, grow the f up and realise he wasn’t elected to be moral guardian of the country?

  5. indiana 5

    I’ve always liked Ice-T’s take on Freedom of Speech…

    “What they’re trying to do with radio, with this, uh, McCarran-Walter Act and a lot of other ways, is start by saying that they’re protecting the public from wicked rock bands, or girlie magazines, or whatever. But, if you follow the chain of dominoes that falls down what they’re really trying to do is shut off our access to information itself”


  6. Although I agree with protesting these idiots, maybe we should look at who has embassies here and who our government are in trade deals with today (so you could say condone on some level) as we speak, Saudi Arabia or Israel would be good examples of where we could direct our energies, as both these states are committing heinous acts against minorities and defenseless civilians right now.

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.1

      As if TRP and his heroic antifa friends would dare protest against a country that has only recently allowed women to drive.

      “The World Economic Forum’s 2016 Global Gender Gap Report ranked Saudi Arabia 141 out of 144 countries for gender parity ” Wikipedia

      That’d be racist to protest institutional sexism and weaponised male privilege

      nor would have the guts to protest for LGBTQI+ rights for Saudi Arabians

      “Saudi Arabia is considered to have one of the worst LGBT rights records in the world. Both male and female same-sex sexual activity is illegal.” – wikipedia

      I could go on, but my point is that it’s easier for keyboard activists to call a couple of Canadians racist and bigoted for calling out the behaviour of a religion than to take their own stance on the behaviour of a religion and really protest on real issues

  7. Cynical Jester 7

    To be hinest let them speak so people can see how weak their arguments are, theyve been made out to be much more intelligent than they really are in both sides.

    I hate what they have to say, but as a 20 something LGBT person who knows his history it was only a few years ago where we were banned from speaking out in public and the state (both labour and national) thought we were disgusting, so I’m loath to shut down any speakers in case history repeats itself and minorities have to go back to “the sewers where we belong” I know that they wouldn’t return the favor but i don’t believe in sinking to their levels.

    So let them speak if they can find a venue , we don’t have to listen. Picket them if you must but I think that gives them what they want , attention and confrontation so they can say look at these horrible leftys rarararara.

    If the protest turns into anything like what happens when people like Milo speak e.g he was booked to speak at that university last year and the left decided to try burn down the university, the alt right will have gained many many many many new followers in NZ because that shits a disgrace.

    I’d counter them by inviting them to debates and if they refuse promoting how weak they are, peaceful protests like tge ones against kyle Chapman that we have every year are great , if it turns into an ANTIFA thing, the left will be the ones looking like facists.

  8. Sanctuary 8

    We need to let the fire alarm off at their meeting.

  9. millsy 9

    If I could be bothered I’d go and throw eggs at them when they get off the plane.

  10. roy cartland 10

    Let’s all just go to the meeting and talk loudly to each other about any old stuff. Surely no one there is going to tell us to shut up at a “free speech” event.

    • The Fairy Godmother 10.1

      Good idea. I’ll be in the cat group and talk my pet cats to other people who like cats.

    • dukeofurl 10.2

      Just as Gerry Brownlee did many years ago at Jenny Shipley election meeting , you will be hauled out and turfed down the stairs for you trouble.

    • mary_a 10.3

      Great idea Roy (10) … as well we could all sing or hum our favourite tunes at the same time. I might go with Bohemian Rhapsody.

      Freedom of speech, freedom of expression.

  11. Dennis Frank 11

    Trotter will no doubt report what they tell the audience. Expect a critical appraisal, because having supported the principle of free speech on their behalf he will feel the need to re-balance his public image via a critique of what they say.

    I’m picking it will prove to be an intellectual challenge for them both, trying to frame issues so that kiwis won’t be offended. If they’ve done their market research they’ll know the far right here has been marginalised by moderate rightists for at least a decade. They’ll need to present as reasonable & rational & fair-minded. Even given leftist paranoia over-dramatising their pitch as hate speech, if they just do a mirror-image stance it will not go down well. If they don’t set out to refer to our common interests in regard to immigration, religion, ethnicity, they will fail here. Sectarianism breeds sociopaths, whether of the left or right.

    • dukeofurl 11.1

      The ‘private dinner’ occasions could be more enlightening….puke

    • Chris T 11.2

      Trotter is on record as saying he thinks there ideas are abhorrent but that doesn’t stop them having the right to voice them.

      Why would he try to justify them?

      • Dennis Frank 11.2.1

        Dunno why you thought I was suggesting that he’d try & justify them, Chris. Read it again. I suggested that he will do a critique of what they say when they deliver address a kiwi audience. If they think the audience are a bunch of bigots, they’ll give him plenty of ammunition. If they assume the audience have an open mind, we may get a more rational approach from them.

        If they try real hard to speak to our common interests, could be they do okay with that and he may be forced to be fairer to them than he wants to be. Unlikely.

        • Chris T


          My mistake not reading a post properly.

          I was an idiot. My only excuse is it’s a Friday afternoon after a long week


      • Delia 11.2.2

        No idea, but does he know it is $79 a ticket to listen to them? Now you can see a good concert for that money and feel good.

  12. Tiger Mountain 12

    little doubt that this pair are neo fascists–so what is the goal for those of us that figuratively spit on them and their hate fantasies?

    for me it would be to have activists dog their every step from arrival to departure, and to have a large crowd at their venue, but not necessarily to stop them from speaking, and to stick it to local “HH” fans along the way

    a key political task is to show the clear ideological trail, back to the Nazis, that many older New Zealanders know quite a bit about…post modernist philosophy seeks to drain meaning from different phenomena–one thing is equivalent to another–fascism is as viable as anything else…except it was not for millions, or many of us right now!

    as a Springbok tour vet, Biko squad, with baton dented helmet to prove it, take this seriously and prepare, go in a group, stout clothing and boots, and watch out for the coppers as well.

    • Anne 12.1

      As another Springbok tour vet Tiger Mountain (yes, I know its not directly related to this topic but in a way it is), I was one of the 6000 plus who met at Fowlds Park in Mt Albert.

      My most vivid memory was the absurd cat and mouse game we played with the police Red and Blue squads on the way to Eden Park. It was ridiculous because nobody was doing anything remotely anti-social at that stage (it came later) yet whenever we arrived at the end of a road or walkway the police squads would suddenly appear and we all went running off in the opposite direction. We still got to the entrance of Eden Park (so why the hell did they bother) where I rapidly left the scene because that’s when the appalling violence started and let’s remember who started most of it – the Red and Blue squads .

  13. SPC 13

    The iwi or Kiwi man will be so pleased with the promotion of an assertive white race pride.

    Of course with this sort of support one wonders if Simon Bridges spends more time looking in a rear view mirror for the coming of Brutus than leading.

  14. marty mars 14

    I hope the crowd bring lots of cash – the hat will go round quite a few times I’d say, so much giving even Bishop Brian will be jealous.

    • Andre 14.1

      Speaking of Bishop Brian, has he said anything public about this? Maybe he could offer Density Church premises.

  15. Brutus Iscariot 15

    The Handmaid’s Tale is in fact an interesting representation of a Western life under Shariah Law.

    • Carolyn_Nth 15.1

      Except, what I’ve seen from the first 8 eps of season 1, it’s under Christian law.

  16. Enough is Enough 16

    If it wasn’t for Phil Goff, no one would know these fucking idiots were in the country.

    They would be speaking to a few dopey skinheads who were dropped on their heads as babies.

    Now we have a firestorm with these racists being given oxygen by the very people who despise them. Here’s a good idea. Everyone stay at home. Don’t give the media anything to report on, and no one will even know these fuckwits even exist.

  17. simbit 17

    These numpties are never mentioned where I am, prairie country, Saskatchewan, what some call Northern Alabama (biggest KKK membership outside of the US, back in the day). Indigenous men are killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time (and their killers acquitted) Indigenous women raped and murdered (ditto, unless they are Indigenous of course), and Indigenous individuals are surveilled in stores, hassled by the police, shat on by the ‘justice’ system (which is working exactly as it was designed to do…) and marginalised to the degree that the UN officially records its concerns.

    Whether they speak or not in Aotearoa (and wow, how many new supporters/subscribers have they picked?!), tens of thousands of Indigenous citizens of Canada are gonna wake up to nothing better. Actually tens of thousands of Maori will go through the same quotidian challenges.

    It is remarkable the intensity of debate on free speech and the paucity of debate on health, education, clean water, secure food, employment, I could go on, for the original owners, Peoples who never gave up their rights. (Actually NZ has more debate on these core issues than most places of been, although I must point out few NZers are harassed, threatened and flat-out murdered for having the conversation).

    Get over the Trudeau crush. Canada is not a liberal country, fuckwits like these are a dime a dozen. There’s prettier and waaaay cleverer ones too, betcha never thought of that…

    • Ross 17.1

      New supporters? You dont seem au fait with free speech actually means. It doesnt mean speech that you necessarily agree with. (It would be boring if everyone agreed with you and you with them.) Remember the guy or gal who said they might disagree with your opinion but will fight to the death to protect your right to speak? Or the person who said that the tolerance of unsavoury opinions is exactly the test of free speech? George Oewell said that if liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they dont want to hear.

      Those arguing for free speech are not that fussed about what two Canadians have to say. Yes they may offend just as I am sure Valerie Morse offended some when she burnt a flag during a dawn service. But not many on the Left complained about that and rightly so.

      • McFlock 17.1.1

        Fuck “offence”.

        I’m worried that these pricks or their followers will be organising train timetables in 10 or 20 years. And by that time it’ll be way too late to do anything about it.

        • Ross

          Organising train timetables? Those on the Wairarapa line would be mightily relieved! 🙂

          • RedLogix

            Best lol all week! I used to call it the Hogswort Express… magic if it did arrive on time.

          • McFlock

            Yeah, joke about it when potus doesn’t defend people in torchlight parades that chant “the Jews will not replace us”.

            • RedLogix

              We had a good conversation on this last week McF. I’m guessing most people here haven’t actually listened to anything this pair of Canadians are saying.

              But unless someone can link to them explicitly claiming White race superiority and calling for the extermination of the inferior races, then Im hesitant about overegging the case.

              I’d guess what they’re doing is a form of identity politics, no more attractive than when the left does it.

              • McFlock

                Yeah, and we live in a world where a government funded its child kidnap plan by taking money away from treatment for poor people with AIDS.

                I’m done pretending that maybe a whole bunch of evil fucks aren’t evil fucks because they dogwhistle for clicks rather than going full David Irving.

                • RedLogix

                  So after reading all the fulmination here about what bigoted nazis these pair of evil fucks are, I had to go and actually listen to what they say. My guess was not far off the mark … white right wingers who’ve watched the left play identity politics for decades and have decided they can play that game too.

                  • McFlock

                    OK, going with that then, “identity politics” is a set of tools. So what are those tools being used for?

                    Do you not see someone wearing a T-shirt that says “it’s OK to be white” with global exposure (even if it had a punchline one the back) as being related to torchlight parades of folk chanting “the Jews will not replace us”?

                    ” it’s OK to be queer” is about empowering a marginalised and oppressed group. “It’s OK to be white” is about inducing and reinforcing paranoia in an already dominant and even oppressing group.

                  • McFlock

                    Oh, look who gets a mention in this article about the revival of “race science”. One of the recipients of a temp work visa for people of good character.

              • solkta

                explicitly claiming White race superiority

                On threenews last night they played some of their promotional video and at 1.14 Molyneux states that the brain of a 25 year old white man is larger than the brain of a 25 year old black man. You can’t really get more of a claim to superiority than that.


                Obviously they do not say that they would exterminate inferior races and they may not think this, but it is clear that they advocate for segregation.

                • RedLogix

                  Thanks … I can’t see the linky above outside NZ, but I get the rough idea. Race and IQ are a remarkably controversial topic that for very good reasons most progressives are reluctant to talk about. Indeed anyone who does is immediately suspect. Yet within minutes google will reveal what a complex nuanced topic it is, and I’ve neither the knowledge nor inclination to unravel it here.

                  But the idea that there are racial differences is surely unremarkable; on a good day with a tail wind I can run; but Usain Bolt will always be faster. He is clearly a vastly superior sprinter than me, but what does this mean? Does it make him a superior human?

                  Ultimately there are a limitless number of ways to measure differences between people, and by extension populations. IQ is only one of them. But all are essentially materialistic measures that have no real bearing on the essential spiritual dignity and worth of each and every individual. Because while each of us differs in a myriad ways … when standing before a limitless Divinity we were all equal.

                  This to my mind was always the fatal error inherent in atheism; the erasure of God leaves us with no reference point other than our own flawed and contradictory selves.

                  • Incognito

                    Such great comments have become increasingly rare here on The Stale 🙁

                    I’d call it a fatal flaw or consequence rather. Figuring out what comes next is almost always flawed, at first, IMO, because we tend to look for a result/outcome (or destination, if you prefer) rather than to focus (and enjoy!) on the process (or journey, if you like). Thus, we often revert to the Devil we know, partly because of fear and mostly because we’re looking for something that does not (yet) exist; we have to create it in the process and the process is the means and the end simultaneously. Let’s see how this one goes …

                  • veutoviper

                    Top notch comment, Redlogix as Incognito has said. This particular thread here is all good IMHO.

                    If of interest, I have filed links to Australian news reports of the first Southern/Molyneux outing in Melbourne last night over at Open Mike at 5.

                    While this post and comments are still going strong, some of the other comments are straying again IMHO so thought I would file a “factual” report of what happened on the ground* over on OM with only little comment on the philosophical pros and cons etc.

                    * relooking at Incognito’s interesting comment, I suppose this is in effect the first possible indications of both the eventual result/outcome and a little of process. Will be interesting to follow the ongoing saga as the forthcoming events in Perth (Sun), Adelaide (Tues), Sydney and Brisbane (next Sat and Sun) and then possibly Auckland (Friday 3 August) take place – if the Southern/Molyneux gravy train lasts that long.

                • marty mars

                  Yes the white supremists would exterminate races or looks or ethnicities they don’t like. That is their goal. And their fellow travellers – those with soft voices that sometimes call people race traitors and excuse hate by claiming everyone hates or the left hate and so on. They are cut from the same cloth and their particular unintelligent justifying garbage must be opposed vigorously imo.

                  Inferior races rise up!!!

      • WILD KATIPO 17.1.2

        Um,… isn’t the NAZI party banned in Germany and other country’s ?

        National Socialist Party of New Zealand – Wikipedia

        And if so ,… is there a reason that it is and seems to supersede the principle of free speech ? Could it be that once groups like that are in power they actually curtail free speech , – yet use it to gain that power ?

      • simbit 17.1.3

        But they have free speech, ay.

    • cleangreen 17.2

      Yes Simbit, I respond to your blog on 17.

      I spent 16 yrs in Toronto and we had many worse folks there as I remember when in 1970 the arrival of all the Jamacans suposedly coming “on holidays” and the right wing group then vigerously opposed their arrivals as 3500 came in the first year and stayed permanently then so they placed all hate plactards on every lampost along Yonge St and Bloor St; – some signs with a clutched shaking fist sating “f….k off n……rs”

      You get the point and the hate group then were caled “The Western guard” and held marches and raliies up main Street (Yonge St) Toronto every month.

  18. David Mac 18

    We need a better standard of problem or reading glasses.

    Of course Hosking’s blazers are awful, they’re splattered in the shit it sets free. Who cares, he’s a twat, “NEXT”.

    We kick the ball around for days about some people that want to stand on a soap-box. Like a hoarde of Grannies and Hone’s Mum we negotiate entering the marae and speaking protocol. I think it’s shallow, lets chuck them the soap-box, mic and go to the pub.

  19. R.P Mcmurphy 19

    I know there is a spare hall at Waikikamukau.

  20. David Mac 20

    Our flimflam guest speakers have much better target ears than ours.

    I enjoy Facetiming with my old Swedish pals and discussing their feelings regarding things like no-go precincts. Those areas an ambulance can’t enter without an armed police escort…I always end up feeling, ‘Geez I’m so pleased I’m in NZ.

    I think part of the reason we have the culture we do is because we have a history of trying to extend everyone an opportunity to have a say. We skipped the Pharaoh, Lord, Squire stuff, a bit like Aussie…except they copped more of the criminal DNA and are centuries away from breeding out the cheating bastard…I’m kidding, I love Aussies…everyone needs a shoeshine boy…..I’m kiddin, I love a Sunburnt country and the scoundrels.

  21. RollsEyes 21

    “Right wing Speakers get Visas; the radical Left still lack Empathy, Compassion and Humanity” – FTFY

    • Wow, what a savage critique! What withering wit! Have you considered writing for the stage? I haven’t seen such a devastating filleting of an opinion piece since Oscar Wilde edited his niece’s ‘What I did on my holidays’ school report.

      Do keep the bon mots flowing my ocularly rotating friend, you’ve only been here once and you already totally own the place.

  22. Ad 22

    Now that they’re coming into the country. let’s all give them a taste of the full limits of freedom of expression.

    I’d give them Eden Park and remind them what it was like at the Springbok Tour.

    We are going to have a great time.

  23. Stuart Munro 23

    So they’re turds. I don’t think we should feed their notoriety.

    Let them die as ACT has died – because it’s too boring to live.

    • tsmithfield 23.1

      Couldn’t agree more. They were the opening item on TV One news tonight. They couldn’t have paid for better publicity.

      If everyone had just ignored them they would probably have had an event with a handful of people and disappeared again without anyone knowing they had ever been here.

      Now they will be getting a huge bump in their social media profile. And they will probably sell venues out if they can actually book some.

      • WILD KATIPO 23.1.1

        Even if they do NZ just isn’t that way inclined, barring a few far right wingers. They will be done and dusted and long forgotten in the not too distant future. There’s just no way they will gain traction in a place like NZ because we have not been radicalized in the same manner as other country’s.

        • BM

          Why are left wingers getting all up in arms?

          Why is the left wing promoting these people?

          Or is it what I said below, the left wants these people to get publicity so they can then participate in their favourite past time, protesting.

          • Stuart Munro

            Because if the RWNJ get behind it, and lord knows they’re dumb enough, we have to be ready to stop it before it reaches a Kristallnacht mass.

            • BM

              Dude, there’s probably at most 5k people from all sides of the political spectrum who have even heard of let alone interested in paying money to hear what these two have to say.

              NZ doesn’t have the issues with islamification as so many other countries have, personally I have no idea why they’re even coming here.

              Our Muslims aren’t the stabby blow themselves up type, they won’t get any traction because there’s no issue.

              • Stuart Munro

                You need to remember their business model runs on outrage. If their usual crap won’t cut it they’ll try and push it. They might get lucky.

                And they’re increasingly desperate now, they were dumb enough to try second rate ambush interviews on the generation who grew up with Chaser’s War: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQrnH20sVHk

              • tsmithfield

                I quite agree with you BM.

                They are happy if people love them. Equally happy if people hate them.

                The one thing they don’t want is for people to ignore them.

                The left have gone full retard about this.

                It absolutely suits the purpose of Southern et al to have the left out protesting, frothing at the mouth etc. Because then they can post clips of all the juicy bits on youtube so they can show how intolerent and unhinged the left are. And the left are gleefully giving them the ammunition.

              • UncookedSelachimorpha

                “NZ doesn’t have the issues with islamification fundamentalist religion as so many other countries have,”


                It isn’t especially inherent to Islam. Fundamentalist Islam is just a popular current flavour. There are / have been many others – the inquisition wasn’t much fun either etc.

  24. BM 24

    Funny, I reckon you left wingers are more excited about these two coming here than anyone else.

    Nothing gives a left winger more of a hard-on than the opportunity to protest, vent their spleen and show everyone how righteous they are.

    • Ad 24.1

      That’s because we are right

      And they are wrong

      • BM 24.1.1

        Lol, excellent nothing like having an open mind and considering other viewpoints.

        • Tricledrown

          Fascists don’t give you that choice oppression is there choice for you unless you are Being Mussolini

    • Or win an election and see the proverbial ‘brewers droop’ of the far right wing former govt as they are being supplanted…

    • halfcrown 24.3

      BM I could not give a shit if they came or stayed away.
      But I think they should have the right to the so called free speech. The bit I have problems with is, the ones screaming about “Free Speech” would be the first to try and shut down others exercising their right to “Free Speech” if they thought what they say was derogatory and something they did not like. Like Prat Brash who was against Maori being spoken on news bulletins, and before you say anything about that comment, I cant stand Maori being spoken by idiots like Espener first thing in the morning, but what the shit I always turn the volume down until I think he has got over his Maori rant, but I will defend the right for it to be spoken. Will the likes of Brash and all those other righwing fuckwits who”managed” (and one wonders who were their backers) to get the funds together to take Goff (another pile of shit) to court show the same amount of enthusiasm if someone tries to stop that happening? I doubt it very much

  25. God of Nations at Thy feet,
    In the bonds of love we meet,
    Hear our voices, we entreat,
    God defend our free land.
    Guard Pacific’s triple star
    From the shafts of strife and war,
    Make her praises heard afar,
    God defend New Zealand.

    Men of every creed and race,
    Gather here before Thy face,
    Asking Thee to bless this place,
    God defend our free land.
    From dissension, envy, hate,
    And corruption guard our state,
    Make our country good and great,
    God defend New Zealand.

    Peace, not war, shall be our boast,
    But, should foes assail our coast,
    Make us then a mighty host,
    God defend our free land.
    Lord of battles in Thy might,
    Put our enemies to flight,
    Let our cause be just and right,
    God defend New Zealand.

    Let our love for Thee increase,
    May Thy blessings never cease,
    Give us plenty, give us peace,
    God defend our free land.
    From dishonour and from shame,
    Guard our country’s spotless name,
    Crown her with immortal fame,
    God defend New Zealand.

    May our mountains ever be
    Freedom’s ramparts on the sea,
    Make us faithful unto Thee,
    God defend our free land.
    Guide her in the nations’ van,
    Preaching love and truth to man,
    Working out Thy glorious plan,
    God defend New Zealand.

    Lots of stuff there about ‘every race and creed’… and being ‘ free from dissension, envy, hate ‘ too…

    • greywarshark 25.1

      Wild Katipo
      Very aspirational that Thomas Bracken.
      But how do we cope with dissension; it is a feature of human living. And that business of asking God to sort things out. That has been a feature of NZ as a country – not wanting to sit down together and sort things out reasonably, intelligently and fairly. Only constant niggling and demands for justice over generations gets anywhere here.

      Our plea should be for God to give us support in strength of mind and fair purpose to face each other and find agreement in how we behave to each other and the environment, and be trustworthy and honest.

      We have all the attributes built into our brains just waiting to be tapped. But no. We sit back and wait for God to do it. If we get on and do the work for peace ourselves, God would be pleased. Good work he or she would say. They have reached the higher level of living which was always their potential, never before reached, and not imagined by Bracken in his stirring ode to a great little country.

  26. dV 26

    Rekon the gangs should go along in full regalia and sit in the from row, and look very intimidating,

    • BM 26.1

      Mate, you’re more likely to see the gangs outside breaking left-wing heads.

      Also if you think the Black Power and Mongrel Mob are pro-immigration you’re completely wrong.

  27. DS 27

    I am in a minority here, but frankly, this is what should have happened in the first place. Let them in, then challenge them via peaceful protest.

    I also broadly agree with Chris Trotter, and am more than a bit disturbed at some of the commentary on this:


    (And before anyone accuses me of supporting these people… I am a Leftist).

    • Yeah you can go either way after a fashion , let them come and spout off and engage their stupidity on an intellectual basis in debate… or ,… deny them access. Personally , I’d rather give them the royal send off with a polite message not to waste our time again than go through with all the drama.

      We know they will get little traction here. We know they are here just to stir shit. We know they are bringing their views to a country that just doesn’t have the same issues as they do. So its kind of pointless from the get go. But , the muppets are coming. So lets all go watch a movie, have a cup of tea and an early night , or go to a friends house and drink mulled wine and play cards.

      Because that’s about as important it will be to even bother with them.


  28. weston 28

    ive never heard so much crap about fuck all !!!!!

  29. Helios Avenue 29

    Could development of the empathy and compassion market be the humanitarian response?

  30. Katipo 30

    I rank all the chatter about them less noteworthy than the flag debate but ( seeing how I have left a comment) perhaps it’s more engaging than a debate about the Earth being flat.
    Has any one ever watched a YouTube video showing a flat-earther? bizarre stuff.
    Ahhh damm it! I’ll have to adjust my rankings…

  31. cleangreen 31

    BM is actually right as we on the left have shown more concerns about two Canadians than is proporatate.

    As when John Key and his ‘corporation racketeers’ were wrecking this country most of us all lay down and took it all.

    I wanted to rebell with others then, but no-one else wanted to ‘setup marches and rallies NZ wide’ that we could have been involved together with to make a real voice heard then.

  32. greywarshark 32

    There are lots of different thoughts here from the living.
    Here is an assortment distilled, apparently, from experience, from the dead, or near:

    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
    It takes a touch of genius- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    – Albert Einstein

    “Bear in mind that brains and learning, like muscle and physical skill, are articles of commerce. They are bought and sold. You can hire them by the year or by the hour. The only thing in the world not for sale is character.”
    – Justice Antonin Scalia

    “Chance favors the prepared mind.”
    – Louis Pasteur

    “Foolishness is infinitely more fascinating than intelligence… Intelligence has limits while foolishness has none.”
    – Claude Chabrol

    “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
    – John C. Maxwell

    “Light travels faster than sound. Isn’t that why some people appear bright until you hear them speak?”
    – Steven Wright

    “I have always been among those who believe that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.”
    – Woodrow Wilson

  33. David Mac 33

    This speaker debacle is bigger than the Sensational Bigmouths and their Storm in a Teacup Tour. It plays spotlights on our laws.

    It’s interesting because it’s an issue fundamental to the kind of place most of us want to live. What constitutes hate speech? Is it ok for me to say ‘Fuck the Crusaders’ but not ‘Fuck the Catholics?’

  34. David Mac 34

    I think we need an open mic policy and a staunchly defended right to look at each other and simultaneously say “This guy’s a dick.”

  35. David Mac 35

    We were all kissed by a Matariki Star.

    No matter what rohe or colour you are.

    International racists can have their say

    Here in New Zealand it’s bridges not wedges in play.

    • David Mac 35.1

      Tim Finn asked me to type that and Neil has asked me to swap ‘racists’ for ‘blowhards’ and it’s too late to edit. Lookout for this alteration on the single.

      • David Mac 35.1.1

        I wish I had what it takes to be a politician. i’ve never met either of the Finn brothers.

  36. D\\\'Esterre 36

    I’m relieved that the Canadian pair have been granted a visa. There was no substantive reason to ban them. Nobody has to agree with what they say, but freedom of speech ought to prevail. This is supposed to be an open democracy: citizens ought to be able to cope with dissenting views. And Goff ought to be forced to allow them to use a Council venue: it’s not for him – or for Council officers – to make such decisions on behalf of the rest of us.

    Back when David Irving was denied entry to NZ, I was in favour of that decision. In the intervening years, I’ve realised that we’re all better off with free speech to the fullest extent possible. Up to and including David Irving, odious as his views are.

    “….we fought and beat their brown shirted predecessors in the forties…”

    No. Nobody did: the Brownshirts were largely replaced by the SS in the mid-1930s. Soldiers from NZ fought against the Wehrmacht, who weren’t the SS. Moreover, NZ initially went to war on the side of Britain. They were fighting German warmaking in Europe, not Nazi ideology. It wasn’t until the end of the war, when the concentration camps were being liberated by the Allies, that the the full horror of Nazi atrocities became apparent. And it was the Red Army which won the war in Europe; the other allied forces were largely a sideshow.

    So: don’t run away with the idea that our brave soldiers went away to fight the evil Nazis. Nobody at that time knew the real nature of the foe.

    “…battled against apartheid in the seventies and eighties…”

    I suspect that you were too young to have had any involvement in the anti-apartheid movement – which actually began here much earlier than the 70s and 80s – but I surely am old enough. And that’s another reason why I favour warts-and-all freedom of speech. Back then, anti-apartheid views were often considered by the Establishment to be radical and dangerous. Attempts were made to intimidate and silence those speaking out; at union meetings and the like, we were often shouted down. The same tactics were used on the anti-Vietnam War movement.

    “….rejected Don Brash’s dog whistles in the 2000’s and we’re not letting racism rise again here in Aotearoa.””

    Overstatement doesn’t help your cause. You may not like Don Brash’s views, but that doesn’t make them – or him – racist. Call him a bigot; a prejudiced old fart, even. Both would be a correct characterisation. But leave off with the racism thing: it’s an epithet being chucked around and designed to squelch debate. If you disagree with Brash, construct an argument and put it to him.That’s what I did, after THAT Orewa speech. I got a very polite reply, too; Brash is a very polite man.

    “pro-fascist backers of the visit…”

    When you say “fascist”, do you have in mind fascism Italian-style? Or is it actually Nazism you mean?

    I wasn’t overly familiar with what these two Canadians think, so I went online to check them out. His views are distinctly wacky, no doubt about it. Though I daresay some of the men commenting here and elsewhere might secretly agree with his opinion about all the things we can blame on women, poor things!

    As for her, on some issues, she has a point. no less a luminary than Angela Merkel stated some years ago that multiculturalism has been a failure. And of all leaders, she’d know, wouldn’t she. Merkel’s view is not so very different from that of Southern.

    With regard to Islam, the rise of violent fundamentalist extremism in response to Western meddling in Islamic countries is a big concern. We haven’t seen that sort of thing with Christianity, which suggests that it’s something intrinsic to Islam. And we should all be alert to the possibility of its occurring here.

    The way in which Islam treats women is indefensible.

    Her stance on migrants is contentious, but not without support, in Europe and elsewhere. Note that Australia’s policy toward migrants arriving by boat is broadly similar to what she’s reported as having participated in on the Mediterranean. And it has been successful: arrivals by boat have all but ceased.

    You’ll be well aware of the huge numbers of migrants arriving in Europe; small wonder the citizens are beginning to say “Genug!” – or in the case of the Italians “Basta!”. If you’ve been to Italy recently, you’ll scarcely have failed to notice the large numbers of Africans – both north and sub-Sahara – in that country. Italy has long been the front door of migration from Africa; it is reaping the whirlwind of the disastrous interventionist policies of both the US and the UK/NATO in Africa and the ME. We here in NZ are in no position to take a holier-than-thou position on migration, or to preach to European countries about it.

    “Hate Speech Coalition…”

    What do you mean by “hate speech”? I have not the least idea: do you mean things I say, with which you disagree, or vice versa? Or….?

  37. tawaroa 37

    Socialism breeds parasites.
    Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux are just right of center, but you all have gone so far left your off the map.

    • Anne 37.1

      Calling Te Reo Putake… are you there? No 37 needs one of your ultra pithy responses.

      Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux are just right of center,… Lols.

    • Draco T Bastard 37.2

      No, it’s actually capitalism that breeds parasites. All those shareholders and rental house owners and speculators and banksters. Every single one of them lives on unearned income and expects to have more every year from producing nothing of value. They are, quite simply, a drain upon the rest of us.

    • D'Esterre 37.3

      tawaroa: “Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux are just right of center…”

      It needs to be pointed out that the people who defeated the Nazis generally held views about the world that The Standard commenters would consider far right, not just centre right. Those liberating the concentration camps weren’t necessarily enamoured of Jews and gypsies. But that didn’t mean that they weren’t shocked and repelled by the brutality of the SS in particular.

      And in another of the paradoxes of the modern world, many of us here protested against apartheid in South Africa from the 1950s on, yet in WW2, white South African soldiers fought on the Allied side.

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