Written By: - Date published: 5:00 am, April 25th, 2012 - 53 comments
Categories: war - Tags:

Today marks the lives and loss of lives of many New Zealanders in battle fields around the world.

One can only wonder of what they would make of the world they have fought for.

53 comments on “ANZAC day”

  1. tc 1

    Magnificent weather for the dawn service and nice touch on the music, very appropriate.

    A day of reflection on times since past and sacrifices made by men and women in WW 1/2 in the hope we would enjoy freedom from fascism, racism and tyranny…..lest we forget.

    • Dr Terry 1.1

      I hate being cynical tc, you are very sincere, but I think most of the soldiers who died in these wars did so, not out of voluntary, willing, and courageous decision to sacrifice themselves, but because the were conscripted by governments which offered them as sacrificial lambs (when there was probably no specific threat made to our country). Should they show “cowardliness”, or disobey orders, they would likely have been executed. These poor souls were forced to put their lives on the line, there was no choice. Moreover, at Gallipoli, they acted at the murderous behest of madmen sheltering at home in their safe political offices.This is not to deny that some soldiers truly did act sacrificially. (Please note: I have had much experience in the military).

      Friends and loves we have none, nor wealth nor
      blessed abode,
      But the hope of the City of God at the other end of
      the road.


  2. lprent 2

    Fixed the logo…

    • Jim Nald 2.1

      Thanks for including the white poppy:

      • Jim Nald 2.1.1

        Was searching for what might have been said about the white poppies on The Standard and came by this:

        Anzacs and Afghans

      • Carol 2.1.2

        Thanks, Jim. I didn’t know about the white poppy.

      • lprent 2.1.3

        Old weekend warriors like myself wish for peace. It is only the armchair warriors like Judith Collins (and at a guess Cameron Slater) who are stupid enough to worry about a poppy expressing a wish for peace. Let us pray that no idiot is stupid enough to ever put her in as Defense minister. I know her type. She’d simultaneously cut the budget, double bunk soldiers, and get them committed to getting crushed in silly wars,

        From memory the most I ever heard from the RSA was a question about how far it would cut into their sales – a very practical consideration.

        Rocky did the logo in 2010 late on Anzac day after seeing my single poppy version, and it went up in 2011 and 2012.

        • Jester

          Yes Judith is pure evil. Wasn’t it her that protested and spat at returning Nam veterans back in the 70s?

  3. fustercluck 3

    Each time they deploy, NZ forces demonstrate their dedication to their duty, i.e., for the military to obey the direction of the civilian government. Far, far too often the civilian government fails NZ forces by sending them on immoral and futile missions in an ever-spiralling attempt to suck up to empire.

    I will not forget the sacrifices of loyal soldiers and I will struggle against those who to this very day spill their blood for their own venal purposes.

    • rosy 3.1

      I went to a combined Australian/New Zealand service today where the Turkish ambassador also spoke. I’m utterly amazed at how the loss of their 85,000 young men at our hands is seen by the Turks as an event that unifies the three countries. Maybe a realistic assessment due to the end of their own empire, but for whatever reason I’m grateful.

      Heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives! You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

      A tribute to those ANZACs who died in Gallipoli (1934). Inscribed on the Atatürk Memorial in Turakena Bay, Gallipoli and at the Kemal Atatürk Memorial, Canberra

  4. Carol 4

    Today marks the lives and loss of lives of many New Zealanders in battle fields around the world

    Does this include the 19th century land wars of Aotearoa?

    All wars are terrible events. The heroic sacrifices people make, often with their lives, should be remembered. The loss of lives should be mourned. The reasons people went to war should be studied so that such sacrifices are not made for someone else’s dubious ends.

    • lprent 4.1

      Yep. A few of my ancestral family were in those on both sides. Also the South African, North African, Pacific, Korean, Vietnam, Middle Eastern, etc wars. Not just Europe.

  5. ghostwhowalksnz 5

    Its interesting to consider that Henry Ford shut down his successful aviation business because of the growing potential for planes in the 1930s to be used for war.
    While his plants were used for war production, he was only a figurehead by this time and the US government put his grandson Henry Ford II in charge of the business

    • Do not forget ghost W that Henry Ford was a rabid anti-Semite and was awarded a high ranking medal from Hitler for his work against Jews .

      • kiwi_prometheus 5.1.1

        Basically everyone was a rabid anti semite pre WWII weren’t they?

        Funny how it’s the right wing devoted to Israel these days and its anyone who dares question the Israeli colonisation project ( ie ‘lefties’ ) who are vulnerable to the ‘anti jew’ label.

        • McFlock

          Basically everyone was a rabid anti semite pre WWII weren’t they?

          Nope. But Ford was.
          And it hurt his business, demonstrating that not everyone was anti-Semitic even then:

          Wallace also found that Ford’s apology was likely, at least partly, motivated by a business that was slumping as result of his anti-Semitism repelling potential buyers of Ford cars.  


  6. vto 6

    Why are we fighting for the USA in Afghanistan? ex-President Carter gets stuck into his own country in an article in The Press this morning – USA, the world’s greatest warmonger. Lowest of the low.

  7. millsy 7

    At least there are no idiots out burning flags at dawn parades. The last thing the anti-war movement needs is the likes of John Minto and Valerie Morse drawing the wrong attention to themselves with stunts like that.

    Speaking of dawn parades, I myself have concerns about this growing attitude we have to ANZAC day, especially amongst the young, it is starting to move from “Remembering the Fallen” to all out militarism and the glorification of war, especially when commentators start going on about it being our new national day. To me it feels like we are going down the path where New Zealand signs up to America’s latest quagmire and the people blindly support it without question and those who do question it are vilified as ‘traitors’.

    Having said that, if the Chinese start swapping their chequebooks for tanks and machine guns to secure food supplies, you can bet your bottom dollar, Ill be first in line at the recruiting office…

    • Perhaps millsy, the younger people are turning out because there are no Gallipoli vets left, and the numbers of WWII vets are shrinking fast.

      For me, it’s a nod to my ancestry. My grandfather was invalided out of Gallipoli with a bullet lodged in his hip (which emerged from the other side of his body 30 years later), and my father was a member of 2NZEF in North Africa, Crete and Greece. Neither of thm is alive now, so honouring them and their comrades on Anzac Day is the least that I can do in their memory.

      • millsy 7.1.1

        “My grandfather was invalided out of Gallipoli with a bullet lodged in his hip (which emerged from the other side of his body 30 years later)”.

        One of the lucky ones…

  8. fatty 8

    “Having said that, if the Chinese start swapping their chequebooks for tanks and machine guns to secure food supplies, you can bet your bottom dollar, Ill be first in line at the recruiting office…”

    Not me…I’ll never defend this country by murdering someone else.
    What would I be fighting to defend?…A political system that is a sham? For my freedom of voice that never gets heard?
    May as well be dictated under a Chinese invasion. I would probably be better off than the other situation; being dictated by old, greedy bankers & lawyers.

    I’m working this arvo and will not be getting paid time and a half. I don’t really give a shit about the money, I do the work cause I enjoy it, and I don’t care for ANZAC day…NZ should stop pretending it gives a shit too. Our army exists to ensure we have the freedom to consume, the free access to capitalist greed.
    Our wars today occur so that the Chinese can open their chequebooks…and then their chequebooks are used to replace the tanks and machine guns. Neocolonialism under the clock of ‘development’ subjects the global South to more suffering and death than any kind of physical force could.
    Perhaps we could have a day in remembrance of capitalist greed for all its death and destruction?
    I suggest the day after Boxing Day…we could all get drunk and then go steal each other’s Christmas presents.

    • ochocinco 8.1

      You would be fighting to defend your country.

      I believe your sort of thinking died in around 1918.

  9. millsy 9

    I’m working this arvo and will not be getting paid time and a half. I don’t really give a shit about the money

    You probably should be. I suggest you follow up with your employer.

    • fatty 9.1

      “You probably should be. I suggest you follow up with your employer.”

      I know, but I’m sure there is a loop-hole somewhere there about part time employment / not working there long enough…or something else.
      The real reason that I won’t follow it up is that I am working for an education provider who is currently cutting back their staff due to lack of funding. If they did cut me due to costs then I would continue on a volunteer basis because I know that the department are not wasteful and do not have overpaid management of any kind (of course the education provider itself has so many layers of management that it is slowly crumbling).
      My other experiences of working on ANZAC day have been when I was too young to realise my rights as a worker. Younger generations in NZ are not concerned with ANZAC day, its seen as a free day to sleep off a hangover before catching up on some shopping. Or to get some part time work while others get a day off.
      I went to a dawn service once…I mean I stumbled past one about 8 years ago when I left a nightclub at 6am. That’s how most young people participate in ANZAC day, unfortunately.
      I don’t see that so much as a lack of respect, I was conforming to society’s values.

  10. vto 10

    That footage in the post is very moving. It would add a lot to the ANZAC mornings if it could be shown at each parade prior to the march.

    It would bring home to people the evil of war.

    For there is one thiing that must be resisted at all costs imo and that is the glorification of war and armies. That glorification is something so easy to slip into. Footage like this would help prevent it.

  11. bad12 11

    What I see as having ‘provoked’ WW1 in particular was ‘fear’, simply the powerful elites of Europe’s ruling classes, the Kings and Queens and Generals ‘fear’ of the wave of Socialism sweeping across the continent and washing up upon the shores of ‘dear old England’ and it’s colony’s,

    The Russian revolution didn’t just happen overnight and the ‘pamphleteering’ of the Socialist message had for a number of years spread the message of social equality through-out the class structure of old Europe and England,

    ‘In Flanders field poppies grow’,WW1 to me was simply the mass murder of part of the first generation to dare to question the authority of the Elite’s of Europe and England and demand from that corrupt elite a more equal society…

  12. bad12 12

    In England as WW1 dragged on and became more bloody by the day in what could only be described as ‘industrialized slaughter on a grand scale’, the King was advised that ‘the people’ were beginning to openly voice their disquiet about the horrific flood of injuries and continual calls for further sacrifice, pointing out it was not He,(the King),who’s Sons and Fathers were being fast forwarded into a hell of gassing burning,and, mutilation,

    The King,ever mindful of ‘His’ duty to ‘His’ people duly ordered that ‘His’ house-hold staff ‘volunteer’ for service at the front,

    This the Kings house-hold staff to a man duly did,and, within a week of their arrival at the front they were all dead to a man,

    All of us can well imagine and glory in such a sacrifice from the King, after all can you imagine His discomfiture at having to be dressed by a new staff of servants who failed to understand His every hand gesture and grunt,

    I see no glory and when will we be free???…

  13. bad12 13

    Colonel Malone of the Wellington Regiment voicing His abhorrence at what He saw as the needless casualties being suffered by His men asked that they be allowed to attack in darkness,

    The English Lord,ensconced upon a British battle-ship offshore and in charge of this particular piece of needless slaughter denied Colonel Malone’s request,(after all what point was there in Him suffering the discomfiture of ship-bound life if He couldn’t watch the particular battles and skirmishes as they unfolded),

    Colonel Malone in turn disregarding the order that He should only attack during daylight duly attacked the particular ridge which was the point of His mission,having captured the ridge that night Malone signaled that he needed reinforcements to hold His position,

    Our grand English Lord ensconced in relative comfort aboard the British battleship off shore denied Malone’s request for reinforcements and obviously spitting blue blood over Malone’s disobedience in attacking the ridge at night ordered the battleships guns to fire upon Malone’s position,

    Malone and all those who had spilled their and many Turk’s blood in capturing the ridge were killed or injured in the barrage of ‘friendly fire’,

    i see no glory,and when will we be free…

  14. bad12 14

    Our civic leaders placing wooden crosses upon temporary Cenotaph’s simply remind me of those who confronted with the horror which was the slaughter of WW1 trench warfare ‘broke’ and could no longer stand the gassing,burning,mutilation and mass murder of being ordered to run headlong into the maw of masses of opposition machine-guns,

    The wooden crosses so loved of our civic leaders are truly evocative of the wooden crosses that those who would not or could not carry on such a useless squandering of human life were strung up upon both as punishment and message to those who would dare lose stomach to be involved in such gut-churning slaughter,

    i see no glory and when will we be free…

  15. bad12 15

    Anyone here old enough to remember those old war movies that used to be a feature of sunday afternoon TV viewing???,

    You know the ones,where the British Tommy in WW1 crawls out into no-mans land between the opposing forces to re-connect the communications lines???,

    Such was a standard in those old flicks and had a small basis in actual events,but,ever wonder why our brave British Tommy is crawling forward to connect communications lines when the British Generals were in fact ensconced in HQ’s many miles to the rear of the front lines,

    The niceties of war circa WW1 required that opposing Generals communicated with each other over such things as ‘who’s turn’ it was to come out of the trench’s and attack who’s position so it was vital that the phone lines remained intact,

    i see no glory and when will we be free…

    • ochocinco 15.1

      Because a General can’t really run a battle if he’s crawling forward to connect communication lines, can he?

      • RedLogix 15.1.1

        It was Freyburg who grasped the fact that in modern war, especially by the time of WW2, events and dispositions on the battlefield could change very quickly and was well known for his propensity to be in the thick of the fight.

  16. I would love there to be peace, but the realist in me knows that it is a pipe-dream. The best we can hope to do is address the major inequalities around the world that cause war and hope that a more stable and prosperous planet is the result.

  17. Draco T Bastard 17

    Good article by Matt McCarten

    Don’t get me wrong though. Remembering the fallen in pointless wars is a good thing. I recommend a good dose of Wilfred Owens’ poems to really honour the dead and the fruitlessness of war rather than scripted platitudes of politicians we get on Anzac Day.

    If we really take the Anzac message seriously we should be campaigning to get Western troops, including ours, out of the Middle East now. Ninety years ago we supported an invasion of the Middle East for oil. We still are.

    Lest we forget? Get real; we never got the story correct first time.

    We need to start getting the story correct, we need to know why our troops were there in the first place and not forget that as it’s actually the important part.

  18. ochocinco 18

    There’s a lot of anachronistic bullshit that gets thrown around at this time of year, notably “why were WE fighting THEIR battles”

    Well, people, “we” were “them”. In 1914, NZers identified themselves as part of the British Empire, as Britons across the sea. If NZ was wrong to send troops to Gallipolli then the Spartans were also wrong to send troops to Thermopylae. It was a case of a certain part of “us” that lived a long way away sending troops to help another part of “us.”

    Secondly, even today, we are still part of them. We still bear the torch of the west – the torch that passed from Athens, to Rome, to a few lonely monasteries in Ireland, to a reborn England, to a mighty, globe-spanning empire, a torch that illuminated the world and freed it from darkness and evil.

    Everyone who thinks “we” are not “them” displays an alarming lack of historical knowledge.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.1

      No, really, we aren’t. Things change and, over time, what we become is no longer what we were.

      • ochocinco 18.1.1

        We are much closer to the British (or even the Romans!) than we are to any other major ‘culture’ of the world today (counting America as a sub-set of the British)

        • Draco T Bastard

          So? We are still not British and from what I’ve been seeing over the last few decades we’re becoming more Maori. This I see as a Good Thing.

        • Colonial Viper

          We are much closer to the British (or even the Romans!) than we are to any other major ‘culture’ of the world today (counting America as a sub-set of the British)</blockquote.

          This is like saying Zespri is akin to a Chinese gooseberry. Which it is, but it is also largely irrelevant now, missing out many major and minor differences.

          The clue: being part of and identifying with empire is not the way ahead for NZ.

  19. I just wonder what all these “celebrations ” and marching to military bands is all about.For many years I attended ANZAC day and Armistice Day .Then one year as a member of a local, peace group I asked permission from the local,RSA and borough council for the Peace Movement to lay a wreath .The reaction was shocking I was told in no uncertain manner that ‘Boody Commo’s were not wanted and more .I have never been to a service since. anyway the religious services about sacrifice and Gods love was begining to get under my skin .

    • vto 20.1

      Sounds perfectly reasonable to me to be able to place something appropriate regarding peace.

      Unfortunately I guess it is so very easy for many issues, and especially organisations, to get tangled and lost in entanglement unable to untangle them clearly on this day concerning so many deaths at war.

      The RSA and others always do this (no quarter given to others on Anzac day) and I respect them for wanting to keep this morning and day entirely to themselves. I guess it really is solely about the men who have died in war. Nothing else. Those other related issues can have their time and day elsewhere. Perhaps we should leave them in peace to remember in the way they want.

    • kiwi_prometheus 20.2

      I like John Pilger’s take on ANZAC – basically hijacked and used to mythologise and celebrate Western militarism and imperial power games.

      Should be an opportunity to remember what those wars were really about – imperial power games, class conflict. Like one of the few remaining French WW1 soldiers saying it was a whole lot of young guys being sent to their deaths by old guys.

      • Carol 20.2.1

        51st state… Hence Hillary Clinton being “delighted” to get in on the act.

      • Uturn 20.2.2

        An hour or so ago I heard Julia Gillard’s speech regarding Turkish/ANZAC engagements in WW1. She was talking about “worthy foes” (I assume that means high body counts without any tactical achievement) and connecting it up to god knows what kind of convenient “friendship” in the present. The idea of worthy foe seems to me to be something of a romantic hangover; when war was fought more or less between single combatants with bronze weapons; stopping when it got dark and happening slow enough so that the combatant had the time to become a warrior. Exactly what Gillard thinks is romantic or worthy about machine gunning or shelling people into heaps before they get to see the enemy in a mystery.

        • Reality Bytes

          So what else can she do, make negative reflections and insinuations about a foreign nation? She’s reflecting on Australia’s current relationship with Turkey, it’s pure diplomacy and politics, but it’s also positive, I’d rather see formerly adversarial nations and blocs be at peace with one another, even if that means they look a bit hypocritical. Look at how positive national relationships are between formerly deadly WWII adversaries. Of course it’s nowhere near perfect, but we have a lot to be grateful for, and we should be amazed at the spirit of such nations that can bury the hatchet and move on from such unimaginable grief and suffering.

  20. joe90 22

    Anzac day makes me sad.

    Because I was born almost nine years to the day after the death of the third of three uncles who were lost during WW2 I was very young when I became aware of the grief and loss both my parents and my grandparents felt.

    Mum and Dad were in their teens when they lost their brothers but, as youngsters do, they put the past behind them and carried on with their lives, matching and hatching, and the task of rearing us lot and their sadness only really emerged on anniversaries and days of remembrance.

    Grandma, who’d lost two of her sons, absolutely detested the British, with an especially venomous hate reserved the royal family, never openly mourned. When asked how she coped Grandma used to say that she was one of the lucky ones, she had five more sons.

    Granddad apparently, several years after the war, was so beset by grief that when dad and his brothers returned to the town they’d grown up in with new wives and young families in tow he handed the family business to them, took to the bottle, and never worked again.

    I was nine when he died and I think he really did suffer and my memories are of a distant man who had cut himself from the world.

    Mum’s parents never really talked about their loss and I think it was only on anniversaries and days of remembrance that the sadness took hold. But, again, they thought they were lucky to have lost only one son.

    Anyhow, I’m quite fond of Kipling so here’s my favourite poem.


    When the ‘arf-made recruity goes out to the East
    ‘E acts like a babe an’ ‘e drinks like a beast,
    An’ ‘e wonders because ‘e is frequent deceased
       Ere ‘e’s fit for to serve as a soldier.

        Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
        Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
        Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
    ~OF~ the Queen!

    Now all you recruities what’s drafted to-day,
    You shut up your rag-box an’ ‘ark to my lay,
    An’ I’ll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
       A soldier what’s fit for a soldier.
        Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .

    First mind you steer clear o’ the grog-sellers’ huts,
    For they sell you Fixed Bay’nets that rots out your guts —
    Ay, drink that ‘ud eat the live steel from your butts —
       An’ it’s bad for the young British soldier.
        Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

    When the cholera comes — as it will past a doubt —
    Keep out of the wet and don’t go on the shout,
    For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
       An’ it crumples the young British soldier.
        Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .

    But the worst o’ your foes is the sun over’ead:
    You ~must~ wear your ‘elmet for all that is said:
    If ‘e finds you uncovered ‘e’ll knock you down dead,
       An’ you’ll die like a fool of a soldier.
        Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .

    If you’re cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
    Don’t grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
    Be handy and civil, and then you will find
       That it’s beer for the young British soldier.
        Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .

    Now, if you must marry, take care she is old —
    A troop-sergeant’s widow’s the nicest I’m told,
    For beauty won’t help if your rations is cold,
       Nor love ain’t enough for a soldier.
        ‘Nough, ‘nough, ‘nough for a soldier . . .

    If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
    To shoot when you catch ’em — you’ll swing, on my oath! —
    Make ‘im take ‘er and keep ‘er:  that’s Hell for them
       An’ you’re shut o’ the curse of a soldier.
        Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .

    When first under fire an’ you’re wishful to duck,
    Don’t look nor take ‘eed at the man that is struck,
    Be thankful you’re livin’, and trust to your luck
       And march to your front like a soldier.
        Front, front, front like a soldier . . .

    When ‘arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
    Don’t call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
    She’s human as you are — you treat her as sich,
       An’ she’ll fight for the young British soldier.
        Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .

    When shakin’ their bustles like ladies so fine,
    The guns o’ the enemy wheel into line,
    Shoot low at the limbers an’ don’t mind the shine,
       For noise never startles the soldier.
        Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .

    If your officer’s dead and the sergeants look white,
    Remember it’s ruin to run from a fight:
    So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
       And wait for supports like a soldier.
        Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
       An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.
        Go, go, go like a soldier,

        Go, go, go like a soldier,
        Go, go, go like a soldier,
    ~of~ the Queen!

    • RedLogix 22.1

      I might be wrong Joe.. but I’m thinking that’s about the longest comment you’ve ever posted here. And it’s special.

      Like yourself my own family paid a very heavy price in both wars. Depsite the fact that I’m a sixth generation New Zealander, apart from my own immediate nuclear family…. I have no close relatives.

      My grandmother was one of a family of seven, yet only she and her younger sister survived both wars to have children themselves. The ones who didn’t come back were in many ways the lucky ones.

      The same was true of my father-in-law. Served extensively in the Middle East. Came back home to his provincial town and never … ever… left home again. Not even for his only daughter’s wedding.

      Some went to war and were lucky … but many saw and had to do things they could never reconcile. My aunty’s husband served in every major WW1 battle. We still have his war dairy intact. A reserved, almost dry read, but graphic enough. He came home and worked in the civil service all his life, quiet and apparently functional. But like most he could never talk about it.

      Once at a family lunch my father asked him a small innocent question about his service. There was a long pause, my aunt looked a little stricken. Finally uncle said… “Any man who goes to a war is a fool”.

      Later aunty said that in all their many decades of life together… that was the only thing he ever said about it.

    • bad12 22.2

      Your talk of ‘grandma’s’ opinion of the British Royals brings a smile, reminding me of my mother’s exact same attitude which She never explained to us kids,

      Taking us to the movies was the one instance when Her anti-Royal attitude was displayed in public,in the day, movies in the local theater began with the anthem ‘God Save the Queen’, and, every living soul in that movie theater stood for that anthems duration,

      Except of course for one imposing lady and 4 kids who would never dare, until later in life, disregard any of Her edicts on anything…

      • millsy 22.2.1

        I like your beloved nana, I long for the day when the British finally abolish the monarchy and give the royals 24 hours to vacate their fancy palaces…

        There is no need for monarchy — anywhere.

        The French got rid of theirs, as well as the Russians, and the Indians sent their puppet monarchs packing in the same direction as the British (they are now reduced to charging tourists to walk through their palaces to get by).

        When I watched the Royal Wedding last year, all I was thinking is about how Princess Catherine would not have to even think about lifting a finger for the rest of her life. Having Fleet Street (the only people who benefit from monarchy) following her around everywhere will be a small price to pay for complete economic security and a guaranteed gold-plate standard of living.

  21. seeker 23

    Wonderful comments both Joe90 and Redlogix, thankyou.

    • deuto 23.1

      Also from me, Seeker and Redlogix – thank you. What you have both posted means a great deal to me – was going to say more than …….. but everyone has a right to say what they want. But I will remember – and honour – your contributions. Thank you.

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