Ardern cautious on capital gains tax

Written By: - Date published: 7:04 am, August 23rd, 2017 - 146 comments
Categories: capital gains, jacinda ardern, labour, tax - Tags: , , , , ,

Yesterday The Herald ran a panel based “job interview” for Jacinda Ardern and Bill English, the write up is here:
Jacinda Ardern vs Bill English: Relentless dissatisfaction vs bloody-minded positivity

After Ardern’s interview much was made of the fact that she declined to rule out a capital gains tax, pending the advice of an expert advisory group:
Ardern’s ‘captain’s call’ to not rule out capital gains tax
No capital gains tax yet – Jacinda Ardern
VIDEO: Jacinda Ardern won’t rule out capital gains tax

For anyone paying attention this was not new news. A week ago:
Labour leader Ardern maintains ‘right and ability’ to introduce Capital Gains Tax if working group suggests it next term; Would exempt ‘family home’

A capital gains tax on property other than the family home makes perfect sense – most OECD countries have them (most OECD countries have better housing affordability than us). Our back catalogue on capital gains tax is here. The Nats have introduced a week form of a CGT already.

Ardern is right to be cautious on the issue before the election. But if we have a Labour led government in October, the issue of a more robust CGT needs serious consideration.

146 comments on “Ardern cautious on capital gains tax”

  1. Ad 1

    Ardern had better get it straight, fast. Not just “form a committee”.

    The Auckland property market is cooling fast, and with that go the fates of several hundred thousand people and their equity that they were planning their retirement around.

    A Labour government proposing going “cold Turkey” off the entire real estate paradigm may appeal to a radical fringe, but English know it’s where his 40% of support remains.

    And of course, part of that 40% is the real estate companies that fund National.

    The only tax talent Labour has to provide Ardern with good advice is Deborah Russell, who I am sure is smart enough to wean the addiction more slowly.

    National just found her first weakness.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      If they’re looking for tax talent surely they could just read your comments. You seem to know all about it, after all.

      PS: ‘tax and spend’ isn’t a brand new attack line for National, just in case you weren’t aware of that.

    • lprent 1.2

      *sigh* You need to spend more time looking at economic realities.

      The only reason that the property market is cooling off in Auckland is because the Reserve Bank put a crimp into the ability to lend to certain groups of buyers. They also made it more difficult to launder ill-gotten gains here. The reason that they did that was because of the effects on housing driven inflation and because there was no effective limit on the amount of money being poured into a speculative bubble. These are regulatory matters that can change pretty much as fast as the Reserve Bank can be convinced that there are changes in the economics.

      The underlying economic issues are still there. The high inwards migration. The lack of housing being built. That Auckland has a housing stock that was more suited for the 195-1970s than to the current demographic. None of these are issues that are going to change fast.

      As it stands, after 5 years of a heroic struggle ( in his own mindlessness ) by Nick Smith, we are still building far fewer bedrooms in Auckland than we were in 2007 – when the nett migration levels were much lower. The infrastructure to support denser living and even greenfield estates still hasn’t been put in.

      Kiwi migration depends more on the misery of the aussie job market than anything else. Even immigration has a pretty long cycle time.

      All of these go into the mix, along with the Labour building programme once it gets going in about 4 years, any changes to capital gains, immigration levels, putting in rational infrastructure planning rather than the abortion that is National and Nick Smith, etc etc…. All of which take a long time to change.

      But ultimately the decision on housing market heating lies with the reserve bank with how much economic overheating they will allow with incoming money, expansion of the money supply, and with the cost of money.

      That is the real governing of the housing prices.

      Incidentally the CGT will have less to do with the prices of houses than the supply of new housing, the rate of nett inwards migration to Auckland, the changes in wage rates, and the decisions of reserve bank. I suspect that you’ve been looking at the bottom of semi-log scale and thinking that is important…

      • Ad 1.2.1

        **sigh** right back at you.

        Agree that “the underlying economic issues are still there”.
        But LPrent you know that none of that matters five weeks out.

        And if Labour starts trotting out the same “Rome wasn’t built in a day” lines, they will find that they are saying exactly the same thing that Nick Smith said in every release since 2008. So that won’t work.

        What matters is how close a causal relationship National can make between Labour statements and hip-pocket reality,

        “But ultimately the decision on housing market heating lies with the reserve bank with how much economic overheating they will allow with incoming money, expansion of the money supply, and with the cost of money.

        That is the real governing of the housing prices.”

        That is now only true to a limited degree. The Australian banks that control 90% of our mortgage market are getting tighter and tighter.

        It’s also clearly limited by the range of measures that National have brought in to actively cool the market, including the “bright line test”.

        It is also limited by the ability of Chinese residents to get their capital out of China and spend it on housing here.

        It is of course led by sentiment driven by banking analysts about the long term prospects for real estate. In particular the Westpac Chief Economist was clear this week that the lowering of house prices that we see now is structural, not a blip.

        The degree to which the Reserve Bank has influence will, according to Labour, be constrained further by taking into account employment as well as inflation, because they are going to alter the way the RB is managed to do that.

        Labour’s Capital Gains Tax will further actively cool the market downwards. That is much of its purpose. So they had better get real clear real fast, not just make “Captain’s Calls” or whatever on a whim. With that Capital Gains Tax decision goes the fate of most of New Zealand’s middle class.

      • But ultimately the decision on housing market heating lies with the reserve bank with how much economic overheating they will allow with incoming money, expansion of the money supply, and with the cost of money.

        That is the real governing of the housing prices.

        China clamping down on money exports has probably had an effect as well:

        Strict new government scrutiny on Chinese people who want to convert their money into other currencies threatens to slow the rush of foreign property buying that has stoked sky-high home prices in Canada and around the world.

        For months, China has sought to dam the flood of money pouring out of its borders, which has rapidly diminished its stockpile of foreign reserves.

        It has raised new barriers to companies buying abroad and moving money out of the country.

        Now, authorities in China are taking new steps to bar individuals from putting their cash into overseas markets to buy homes and other investments, a change with important implications for cities such as Vancouver and Toronto where Chinese buyers had contributed to frenzied property trading.

        And there’s nothing that the RBNZ can do about that.

    • The Auckland property market is cooling fast, and with that go the fates of several hundred thousand people and their equity that they were planning their retirement around.

      Why should we have sympathy for them?
      They’ve been told for years that it was a housing bubble. Now you’re insisting that we protect them from their own choice?

      • Ad 1.3.1

        Because “we” is many things.

        “We” is the people that Labour need to persuade. Because it will be exceedingly hard for Labour to win without bringing some National vote over to them.

        “We” are the families and farmers and businesses and everyone else who needs equity to succeed.

        “We” is all the consumers who depend on the spending of that equity in the community – which goes everywhere, even if much of it goes to the banks.

        For every one finger pointing outwards, four point right back at you.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1.1

          “We” is all the consumers who depend on the spending of that equity in the community – which goes everywhere, even if much of it goes to the banks.

          So, rising house prices is all that keeps the economy afloat?

          For every one finger pointing outwards, four point right back at you.

          Fake wisdom is fake.

          You can’t address an issue if you refuse to point it out and look at it.

          • Ad 1.3.1.1.1

            Pointing it out is fine.
            Introducing a massive new tax without analysis of its impact is irresponsible.

            Having no actual policy on it, but having the threat of it five weeks before an election, is flat dumb and she is going to get hit with it.

            And yes, in Auckland, Tauranga, Queenstown, Wanaka, and bunches of other places, house prices really are keeping the economy afloat.

            I don’t have to like real estate capitalism, but New Zealand runs on it.

            • red-blooded 1.3.1.1.1.1

              Why are you assuming any CGT would be massive? And surely any working group set up would have to consider its likely impacts before recommending a CGT? I would have thought that was the point of convening a panel of experts, Plus, while the investment market may play an important role in the Auckland real estate market, there are presumably still family buyers and sellers, too. The family home would be exempt.

              And when it comes right down to it, there’s no way to make housing more affordable without impacting the overheated prices of recent times. Having said that, I don’t think a moderate CGT would crash the market. After all, there are plenty of places with CGTs and expensive housing. As much as anything, a CGT is about creating a more fair tax system; one that doesn’t exempt one kind of business transaction.

              • mikesh

                [And when it comes right down to it, there’s no way to make housing more affordable without impacting the overheated prices of recent times.]

                Yes, one cannot have it both ways. One either hurts would be homeowners by making it difficult for them to enter the market, or one hurts existing home owners by crashing the market. If I had a choice I think I would go for the latter.

                • Third option: Go full state housing.

                  Build huge amounts of state homes with lifetime leases. Let them out on a first come, first served, as need basis.

                  Crash the housing market.

                  Offer to buy the houses that now are a negative equity for the full price of the mortgage while giving the people who live there same conditions as all other state housing.

                  End result: Everyone becomes better off – except the landlords.

      • Enough is Enough 1.3.2

        I agree

        The Market needs to crash by at least 50% to get back to some degree of reality and affordability.

        Personally I don’t give a shit about those people who have borrowed too much to buy during a bubble, or leveraged off their overpriced home, to buy a new audi.

    • Hanswurst 1.4

      Ardern had better get this straight

      I disagree. In previous election campaigns, it appeared that a CGT was far from an unpopular idea, with Labour’s problems lying elsewhere. The potential for one being levied on the back of a tax working group will not strike fear into the hearts of many people. What that gives Ardern is an easy line on any questions relating to it in debates, whereas a specific policy would open her up to all sorts of random and arcane questions on it, as happened in the past. On the flip-side, of Labour categorically ruled it out now, then did introduce one in their first term, you can rest assured that the media would crucify them in exactly the same way as they didn’t crucify National over the GST rise in its first term.

      It’s easy to get hung up on an issue like this, but it’s still just one issue, and Labour would be better off concentrating on the issues they have identified as their strengths in the planned “relentlessly positive” campaign.

  2. Nick K 2

    We already have two capital gains taxes. We don’t need a third.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      What a good thing eg: increasing the ‘bright line’ test from two to five years doesn’t introduce a third cgt then, eh.

    • Stuart Munro 2.2

      Don’t we? The focus of NZ businesses since Brierley has been away from productivity and toward capital forms of profit taking. One result has been a lack of investment in technology and in training that is now affecting most sectors. Combined with a real estate bubble the effect is not much different from what you’d get if you deliberately set out to wreck the economy.

  3. Cinny 3

    Had a family meeting about the rental portfolio. All agreed that we are sweet as to pay a CGT should it happen, it’s about fairness.

    Rather shocked to discover the state of most rentals in NZ, all of ours are insulated, we aren’t into exploitation, if we don’t want to live in one of our rentals then we should not be asking anyone else to do the same.

    Would love to see a rental WOF put in place as well. It’s just not right for anyone to get sick from living in a crap rental while landlords profit from their rent payments.

    It’s a bit rich the nat’s going on about taxes, crikey they’ve introduced enough, but they call it a charge or a fee rather than a tax, in the hope that the public will be bluffed.

    • Brutus Iscariot 3.1

      What was the alternative? Not pay the tax if it happens?

      Sounds like a pointless discussion.

  4. Andre 4

    To me, the argument for a CGT is a fairness argument: fairness requires that those who benefit from capital gains contribute a fair share of those gains back to maintaining the society that made those gains possible.

    CGT won’t stop asset bubbles, or even slow them much. CGT won’t significantly reduce inequality, reducing inequality via a CGT requires choices about about how to use the revenue gained from a CGT.

    A good CGT needs to apply to all assets, all property including family homes (with just a rollover concession for family homes), farms, companies and company shares, art, classic cars etc etc.

    A good CGT needs to acknowledge inflation somehow. I favour explicitly accounting for inflation when calculating the cost basis of the asset, which adds a little bit to the complexity. Other jurisdictions do it by applying a reduced tax rate to CGT, which strikes me as a lot less than ideal, but it is simpler.

    So all up the Greens proposal looks fairly close to being a “good” CGT. In contrast to TOP’s crap CCT proposal which looks to me like it will have all kinds of unintended consequences.

    • indiana 4.1

      Your argument sound too much like “You are getting too wealthy for your own good, how about you hand over that wealth to someone that hasn’t lifted a finger!”

      A tax is a tax, period. Governments can set taxes as they desire and if Adern’s tax think tax tank comes up with a recommendation, how do we get to analyse that recommendation before it gets implemented? Tell us before the 23rd of Sep please.

      An if taxation is about fairness, no problems if you introduce a new tax, so long as another tax has been removed.

      New Zealanders pay a fair amount of tax on their earnings now, no need to gouge them for more.

      • Andre 4.1.1

        Your argument sounds like those people who get their income from capital gains should be able to freeload off the rest of us. Nice work if you can get it.

        • indiana 4.1.1.1

          A CGT already exists in NZ, it just may not be described the way Adern wants it to be described. No one is freeloading off anyone.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.1

            I’m pretty sure that all those wealthy people who magically have their incomes 1c bellow the top bracket at all times and which moves with the bracket are, as a matter of fact, free-loading off of the rest of us.

          • KJT 4.1.1.1.2

            The wealthy in New Zealand have been freeloading for decades.

            Taking far more than their fair share of the work we all do, and the tax that is mostly paid by middle income PAYE, payers.

            Many are too wealthy for societies good. Especially as they got wealthy by luck, not entrepreneurship, or working hard.

            • Macro 4.1.1.1.2.1

              And now Ardern has ruled out raising tax rates for high income earners….


              Wow this is brave stuff we are getting from Labour! not
              So the poor will be expected to bear the brunt as per usual.
              I wasn’t voting for them anyway – but had hoped that there might have been a bit more progressive thinking.

              • UncookedSelachimorpha

                Yep, this unequivocal statement from Labour is weak and intellectually bankrupt. There is no reason to not raise income tax on higher brackets, and plenty of unmet need in NZ.

                There are ways to tax wealth that do not involve income tax, so there is still hope, but why paint themselves into a corner so quickly?

              • rhinocrates

                Enough flip flops and reversals while going in circles for their real logo to be a Moebius Strip.

          • UncookedSelachimorpha 4.1.1.1.3

            “No one is freeloading off anyone”

            Actually, the people with capital are freeloading off those without capital, using their capital to extract wealth from others, without the need for effort or productivity.

          • mikes 4.1.1.1.4

            ” No one is freeloading off anyone.”

            Actually the owners of capital have been freeloading off workers since the 80’s economic ‘reforms’.

            Up until then, incomes for everyone increased as productivity increased. Since then pretty much all of the income generated from increased productivity has gone to shareholders and executives whilst workers wages have flat-lined (or gone backwards if you take inflation into account)

            Corporations who make x amount of sales here but don’t pay a corresponding amount of income tax on those sales are freeloading off all of us.

            Landlords who receive a nice little weekly subsidy by way of the accommodation supplement are freeloading off taxpayers.

            etc,etc,etc…

      • Ad 4.1.2

        It would be more useful for Labour to say:

        “We need to shift the whole of our productive capital into enterprise, not rental housing, and this is how we are going to do it: tax.”

        Then they would need to explain how.

      • New Zealanders pay a fair amount of tax on their earnings now

        No they don’t. We’re the least taxed nation in the OECD.

        And it’s really not doing us any good.

        But then, you probably knew that.

      • Ian 4.1.4

        Well put Indiana. The proposed water tax is targetted at a very small group of farmers who labour don’t like. A capital gains tax will be felt by every kiwi that tries to move ahead by saving and investing. It is a kick in the teeth to those that want to get ahead. Lets all dumb down . Plenty of surplus in the budget so why tax,tax,tax ?

        • Muttonbird 4.1.4.1

          The whole of NZ doesn’t like those farmers because they are destroying our waterways and damaging NZ’s image abroad. Labour’s philosophy is that everyone owns water so these cowboys can damn well pay for the resource they use if their use of it is damaging the environment.

          A capital gains tax will be felt by every Kiwi that tries to get into the free circus that is amateur landlordism. So they should, because as has been pointed out this sort of investment is non productive and destroys communities.

          • Ian 4.1.4.1.1

            Thats what you say. I happen to be one of those farmers and I have never destroyed a waterway.Do your homework on cindys stupid tax. She is taxing the wrong people. Thats what happens when you open your big mouth without thinking.
            A capital gains tax will effect everyone in New Zealand directly and indirectly. There are better ways to generate government income.

            • KJT 4.1.4.1.1.1

              None of your stock ever takes a pee. Sounds like “Planet Key”.

              • Ian

                Go and do some homework,rather than believing the soundbites of rural haters. Hate speech directed at farmers seems to be OK in this crazy PC world.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Rachel Stewart, for example.

                  And Federated Farmers.

                  They both say water quality has been degraded by poor farming practices. Like the Taruheru.

                  • Ian

                    Federated farmers have a bit of credibility.
                    Racheal Stewart is totally warped.
                    To be fair the Taruheru has never been that great but thats no excuse for Gisborne City Council to discharge Raw human effluent into it every 2 to 3 months.
                    It’s tidal and not that long,so the poos gets flushed back and forwards . The local shellfish is not that flash ,but the council put the signs up all the time to make sure the locals don’t gathjer the infected Kai.

                    • In Vino

                      You call that a solution? Both Gisborne and the farmers have to stop the pollution. End of story. Don’t pretend it’s all Gisborne’s fault.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      the Taruheru has never been that great

                      It was perfectly ok until people with no personal responsibility and too much political influence started farming the land it runs through.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      thats [sic] no excuse

                      So what? No-one’s trying to excuse it in the first place. Are you pretending that “he did it too” gets you off the hook?

                • KJT

                  Hate speech?

                  No. just facts.

                  In fact I support farmers. Those that fence the rivers, build effluent ponds, farm as a going concern, not for capital gains, look after the land, and pay their taxes and fair wages.

                  The non tax paying polluters who are in it for tax free capital gains, so they can retire to a house in Fendalton away from their mess, hurt the real farmers, as well.

            • Macro 4.1.4.1.1.2

              We have, in effect, a weak Capital Gains tax now. Many countries around the world have an even stiffer CGT. You can’t tell us here that they are all basket cases and we are the only country that isn’t! Yes it will mean you have to pay some tax when you sell your farm. But are you farming for Capital Gain – or farming for production? And if it means the lowering of land prices, – well then it makes the business proposition for farming more attractive.

              • Ian

                Do you want to buy a farm and become a farmer. I have farmed for 30 years and only made a loss in one year as a result of the GFC. All my farmer mates farm to make a profit. That will be so much harder if Cindy and her mates start charging me for water.
                As for the capital gains tax , just another envy tax on anyone who has taken a few risks to better themselves.
                The Government doesn’t need the money and if it did it could raise GST a few points . Total bullshit from cindy and her inexperience is shining.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Paranoid and a misogynist. Classy. No wonder people say the National Party are trash.

                  • Ian

                    I wish you wouldn’t use those big words.But I suppose it makes you feel good .

                    • In Vino

                      And who would want to buy a farm and become a farmer when there are more honest and less environmentally destructive ways of making a living?
                      Stop all your mates from polluting streams, rivers (I notice it is never you) and I may have more respect.
                      But you can’t – and the verdict is that over-intensive dairy farming is doing real damage.
                      Own it.

                    • Ian []

                      Horses for courses. Are you going to own Gisbornes problem and contribute to the $ 100 million to fix their broken sewers
                      The verdict is that humans are doing real damage.Why don’t you own it ?

                    • KJT

                      Paid my rates already for an efficient sewage system for Whangarei.
                      And supported the council in public meetings to do it.

                      The Hatea, and other streams, are still full of cow shit. I have to clean it off my boat every few weeks.

                      My son works on a farm with effluent ponds, fenced waterways and limited stock numbers. Why should they be undercut by farmers who do none of that?
                      He wants to sharemilk and/or have his own farm one day. An impossible dream, because farm prices have been pushed so far above their worth as a going concern, by capital gains farmers.

                • Macro

                  Nah the Govt doesn’t need the money – except they can’t fund Hospitals, or mental health, or house the 4000 homeless . But who gives a shit about them anyway – Hope you haven’t been waiting for a hip replacement lately coz – you know it might take years.
                  Nice to know you haven’t made a loss lately – but then you might have heard that in the recent past rural suicides have escalated. (or don’t you read the NZ Farmer?) http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/85688445/suicide-rate-among-waikato-farmers-remains-high

                  Young Farmers is aware of several suicide attempts among its membership and wider rural youth lately.

                  Copeland believed the answer to lowering the suicide rate was for rural-based organisations to provide opportunities for people to talk about how they felt.

                  That was a community rather than a Government responsibility, and required more than just throwing money at the problem, he said.

                  District health boards and the Government had a vital role to play in providing a support network once people who needed help had been identified, but the identification of at risk people had to be at the community level, Copeland said.

                  He needn’t worry the gov’t hasn’t thrown any money at the problem in at least 9 years and I wouldn’t worry about calling any help line because it probably doesn’t exist now anyway!

                  And no I’ve had my share of rural life thanks very much.

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.4.1.1.3

              Why do you farmers all think that we owe you a living?
              Why do you think you can destroy our waterways and then think that we won’t hold you to account?

              Why do you think that you don’t have to take personal responsibility for your actions?

              Farmers promised, back in 2002, that they’d do the right thing and thus regulations weren’t needed.

              15 years later it’s become apparent that we couldn’t trust their word. Now we regulate and your whinging falls upon deaf ears.

              Perhaps you should have considered what would happen before you fucked us over.

              • Ian

                you don’t owe me a living. I have not destroyed ANY waterways.I am personally responsible for all my actions .
                If you havn’t noticed what farmers have been doing over the last 15 years you have not been paying attention and really don’t know what your talking about.
                If The irrigation envy tax is an example of how Labour plans to govern ,it is a sad day for those Kiwis that care about the future of New Zealand.

                • I have not destroyed ANY waterways.

                  BS.

                  I am personally responsible for all my actions .

                  Then you won’t have any problems with the proper charges being levied against you.

                  If you havn’t noticed what farmers have been doing over the last 15 years you have not been paying attention and really don’t know what your talking about.

                  We have noticed through the increasing degradation of our waterways and the removal of democracy in Canterbury because some farmers were upset that people were starting to require them to use our resources responsibly.

                  If The irrigation envy tax is an example of how Labour plans to govern ,it is a sad day for those Kiwis that care about the future of New Zealand.

                  Farmers show no sign of caring about the future of NZ or, in fact, life itself. More interested in lining their pockets – as shown by your own whinging.

                  A water charge is, as a matter of fact, necessary for the market to work. Without proper charges the market is distorted causing excess use and the ongoing pollution that we’ve seen.

                  • Ian

                    If restoring democracy in Canterbury results in lam poons taking over god help us.
                    Your envy tax is targeting the wrong people.This is what happens when you write policy on the back of a cigarette packet,in the rain with your head up your arse.goodnight

                    • If restoring democracy in Canterbury results in lam poons taking over god help us.

                      Glad to see you telling the world that you don’t think others can be trusted to govern themselves and their land.

                      Your envy tax is targeting the wrong people.

                      Not envious. And everything you’ve written shows that it’s you with your head up his arse as you try to cling on to the failed policies of yesteryear.

                • McFlock

                  But we have noticed what some farmers have been doing over the last thirty years. It’s why Dunedin residents were advised to boil water because someone let untreated water into the town supply and it was “drinking water that’s the equivalent of drinking it straight out of a stream or lake.”

                  Look, if you’re a clean farmer and making it a going concern, good for you. Great. But why are you defending farmers who freeload off your work and harm your reputation? Why are you willing to subsidise their pollution?

                  • Ian

                    Labours envy tax will tax me to clean up someone elses mess.check out irrigation new xealand to see how misguided this envy tax is.

                    • McFlock

                      No, you’ll be taxed as to how sustainably you’re using the local water. Farmers being less sustainable than you will be taxed more, to reflect that.

                      Being already a clean and sustainably farmer, you’re ahead of the game.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.4.2

          You polluted the river that runs through your property? Get some personal responsibility and pay for the clean-up.

          When the capital gains tax sky falls on your head, I’ll be there to hold your hand. Or take my foot off your neck, whatever.

          Unless the sky never actually falls on your head that is. Pity really, I was looking forward to it.

          • Ian 4.1.4.2.1

            The Rangitata river is as pure as the driven snow. No one swims in it because it is bloody cold.
            The farm is all sorted and the family home in Fendalton will be expanding on all sides. Be prepared ,is a good motto .

        • KJT 4.1.4.3

          The rest of us pay if we pollute water. And we pay tax on our investments, and work income.

          Why the fuck should farmers, and investors in housing, be exempt.

          Just so those of us who do pay taxes, can subsidise them.

          We will have to carry the costs of the extra infrastructure needed for excessive immigration and housing speculation.

          Why shouldn’t those who benefit from rising land prices pay some of the cost.

          Too many free loaders in New Zealand. And it is not the poor!

          • Ian 4.1.4.3.1

            So why does the Gisborne City Council discharge raw human sewerage into the Taruheru river whenever they get a bit of rain ???
            Just because you missed the boat ,no need to penalise those that have done well.
            How many investment properties does Helen Clark own ?

            • KJT 4.1.4.3.1.1

              Didn’t miss the boat. Quite comfortable, but thanks for the concern.

              Penalise?

              Making people pay their share is not punitive.

              If you want a low tax country. Somalia beckons.

              None of us tax payers to freeload off there, however.

        • mikes 4.1.4.4

          “A capital gains tax will be felt by every kiwi that tries to move ahead by saving and investing”

          No. It will be felt by every kiwi who generates income from capital gain on assets. Are you suggesting (as many entitled wanks seem to do) that its ok to tax income earned by a person’s hard work and from giving up their time but for some reason income gained from simply having enough capital to own heaps of ‘stuff’ and sell it at a profit shouldn’t be at least equally as taxed?

          How does that make any sense at all in terms of fairness and of not increasing inequality? You’re saying that if a person is financially well off enough to derive their income from capital rather than labour then they shouldn’t have to pay income tax like the rest of us peasants…. Well,…and the horse you rode in on mate..

    • mikesh 4.2

      I agree that those who benefit from capital gain should, in all fairness, should return a part (or perhaps all) of that gain to the society which created it. However there are more effective ways of achieving this. A land tax or property tax would be better, and would be more effective in keeping down house prices, an area in which capital gains taxes seem dismally ineffective.

  5. DH 5

    IMO all that’s needed is to cut through the crap spun by vested interests who deliberately try to cloud the issue.

    There’s a clear delineation between an ‘investment’ property and an owner-occupied property. One is a business, the other is not. The property investors association freely admits its members are running a business. And as a business they should pay tax on their profits. Capital gain on an investment property is clearly a business profit, ergo it should be taxed.

    There’s no similar justification for taxing the private home, it’s not a business.

    Keep it simple and all the ‘problems’ with a CGT will quietly disappear as if they never existed (which they don’t).

    • mikesh 5.3

      The only reason it is not proposed to levy a capital gains tax on a private dwelling is that any party that did so would be voted out of office at the next election. There is no reason why private householder should make a “profit” from an increase in the value of his home and not pay tax on it, any more than a businessman. A private dwelling is an investment.

      A capital gains tax is pretty ineffectual anyway, but excluding private dwellings makes it even more so.

      • DH 5.3.1

        There’s no absolutes mikesh, CGT is what you make of it.

        The flaw with most CGTs is the tax isn’t levied until the asset is sold, which does largely make it ineffective. The fairness argument is put forward; that people shouldn’t have to pay tax on a profit they haven’t actually realised. That argument doesn’t stand close scrutiny however.

        If one was to look at today’s property investors it is quite plain they are actually realising their capital gains, without selling the asset. They borrow against their capital gain to buy more assets and they raise rents to reflect the higher property value. Both of those should be taxed at source and a CGT would then be quite effectual.

        • mikesh 5.3.1.1

          I agree. What matters in tax is what you pay on a day by day, or year by year, basis, not what you pay once or twice in a lifetime. A land or property tax, tacked onto rates demands (for ease of collection), and handed over to the the government by the local authority, and applicable to all home owners, not just landlords, would be preferable to a capital gains tax.

          If there is a problem with house prices then that problem should be treated as a problem for all who have an interest in housing, not just recent purchasers burdened by high mortgage payments, or those unable to ¨get a foot in the door¨ because prices are too high. Any measures, whether CGT or something else, taken to remedy the problem, should apply also to people like myself who purchased thirty years ago and whose houses are now worth perhaps ten times what we originally paid for them. There is no reason why we should be sitting pretty while others suffer.

          • DH 5.3.1.1.1

            It is a little bit different with the private home though. In comparison with non-home owners I guess you can say you’ve profited but if you were to sell your house and buy another you’d be no better off with or without capital gain.

            The private home isn’t really an investment. It’s savings. You could argue that cash savings attract tax on the interest and so should inflation on the home but I think it’s best left alone. Just tax businesses on their capital gains, it’s a lot simpler and should achieve the same desired result.

            • mikesh 5.3.1.1.1.1

              I agree with your first paragraph, but only where capital gains taxes are concerned. This factor would not be present in the case of, say, a land tax. This would be one of the reasons why land or property taxes are superior to capital gains taxes.

              A private home is very definitely an investment. The rent free accommodation that it provides should be treated as taxable income, and represents the the return on that investment. It has a monetary value, even if that value can only be estimated. Gareth Morgan estimates the rental value at 6% and proposes that this is the amount that should taxed. (Susan St John in a recent blog suggested 4% I think)

              • DH

                You missed out that people take out a mortgage when they buy a home mikesh, which conflicts with the idea of the accommodation being rent-free. In lieu of rent they pay interest which is really rent by another name… just paid to someone else. Property investors have their interest paid by the tenant.

                Anyway a good reason not to tax the family home is a practical one; we’re a democracy and homeowners presently outnumber renters.

                On the other hand investors don’t outnumber renters and private home owners don’t give a rats arse for property investors so a well designed CGT on investors should be politically palatable… except perhaps to those politicians who own investment properties.

                • mikesh

                  A mortgage is not the same as rent inasmuch as it is a way of purchasing the house itself. Paying for the accommodation that a house provides is a different kettle of fish altogether. The mortgagor will eventually own the house outright. A renter won’t.

                  The question of interest is a red herring. The quasi rent argument would still apply even if the homeowner paid for the house upfront, ie without borrowing. One person with, say, $500k puts it in the bank and pays tax on the interest he receives, while another invests $500k in a home so as to be able to live rent free. The rent that the second person avoids having to pay counts as income. So why should that person not pay tax on that income in the same way that the first person pays tax on the interest he receives.

                  Of course the question of interest is itself problematic. In the middle ages the Christian Church regarded the charging of interest as usury, and sinful, and of course they may well have been right. Unfortunately there is nothing much we do about it at the present time.

                  • In the middle ages the Christian Church regarded the charging of interest as usury, and sinful, and of course they may well have been right.

                    All three main religions regard usury as a sin. Probably because, by the time they emerged from civilisation, their originators had realised that it destroys societies.

                    A lesson that we seem determined not to learn – despite all the evidence.

                  • DH

                    It’s an interesting argument mikesh but I can’t see it leading to a rational conclusion. Why single out housing, that argument applies to every asset we buy whether it’s clothes, cars, hobbies or whatever. We exchange cash for the benefits provided by an asset, by that reasoning we should pay tax on everything we own.

                    • mikesh

                      Expenditure can generally be divided into consumption and investment. Generally if something is purchased for the purpose of generating income it´s investment, otherwise it´s consumption. some things of course can be either; purchase of a car, for instance, would be considered investment if it´s for business use, consumption if it´s for private use. A house is generally considered investment because it if one didn´t purchase one, one would have to pay rent somewhere, and a house which is attracting rent is an investment. Also, the amounts spent on housing by the nation as a whole are great enough to be be considered ´capital expenditure´.

                    • DH

                      I think you’re making up your own definition of investment to suit your argument mikesh. I own a set of golf clubs. I bought them because it was cheaper & more convenient than renting clubs every time I played golf. By your argument that’s an investment, to me it’s just a set of golf clubs.

                      The point being that my golf clubs are no different to your housing scenario. I bought them to avoid paying rent and by your reasoning I should be paying tax on them.

                    • mikesh

                      With golf clubs there is a third option ie not playing golf. That option is not available with housing since we all have to find an abode in which to live. Most economists would regard golf clubs as as supporting a recreational activity, and therefore they would not regard their purchase as investment, however one paid for them; though I suppose for a golf professional golf clubs could be regarded as an investment.
                      A house is considered an investment because their is no essential difference between the benefit obtained, by way way of accommodation, whether the house is owned or rented; the benefit received is still the same.

                      I think your arguments a getting little ´straw clutching´. Perhaps we should call it a day.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.3.1.2

          If one was to look at today’s property investors it is quite plain they are actually realising their capital gains, without selling the asset. They borrow against their capital gain to buy more assets and they raise rents to reflect the higher property value.

          Under those circumstances, and it would be fairly easy to determine, treat the loan itself as profit with a 33% tax on it.

  6. Eco maori 6

    Jacainda is not stupid she won’t shoot herself in the foot. And one can not trust the state of the government finances when National are sliding out of parliament. To win a election National will pull all the dirty tricks in the book. We are lucky John Keys left because he was ruthless

  7. Greg 7

    If existing home owners have paid to much for property that’s there problem. labours ability to fix the houseing cries is not dictated by naCT voting property owners.nacyou voters need to take some of there own advice and take personal repossiblry for there debt.positions

    • +111

      I find it amazing that we have people saying that people should take responsibility for their decisions then turn around and say that we should protect people who made stupid decisions which pushed the entire country into a bad position just because they’re home owners.

  8. savenz 8

    Middle class don’t like capital gains because it is complicated and unfair. It does not stop property speculation, money laundering or high house prices. Around the world escalating unaffordability of housing is happening, through global investments becoming the norm, massive immigration, the opening up of Asia, Russia and Middle East and population growth. Those who buy don’t pay a capital gains tax, those that need to sell do pay it. As soon as they put a non resident tax on housing in Canada, property prices fell and affordability increased for local residents.

    In short if you think a capital gains taxes will make housing more affordable while keeping massive immigration you are dreaming.

    And if you think it will help taxation to pay for more services like hospitals, there are much better and more efficient and with faster returns to do it like a stamp duty.

    In short capital gains has become a punishment concept by the left many of whom do not own a house and see it as some paper based mechanism, aka Shamubeel Eaqub economist types that have dismissed immigration as a factor for housing and actually somehow by suggesting better ways to invest money have actually locked many out of home ownership as their house price falls fail to materialise year after year as the NZ population becomes the third fastest immigration per capita in the world.

    Capital gains have not worked in other countries and the cries to increase taxes (which target local middle class not non resident wealthy) helps keeps the right in power.

    • savenz 8.1

      P.s. I think Labour would be crazy to announce any new taxes – wait until next election like JK did with assets sales. Labour’s job is to win, not screw up again and again thinking that eventually the majority will ‘get it’ and want more taxes.

      Did aunty Helen ever announce new taxes prior to winning an election, does National, NOPE!

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 8.1.1

        Problem is – they aren’t “not announcing new taxes” – they are proactively announcing they will not raise taxes in future – and a better NZ society needs to tax wealth much more than currently.

      • Hanswurst 8.1.2

        Helen Clark campaigned on raising the top tax rate to 39c to take office in 1999.

    • KJT 8.2

      See 4.1.4.3 above.

      Over 60% in a poll like capital gains taxes and an increased top tax rate over 150k in income.
      Hardly an election loser.
      Especially as those who vote for tax cuts, and a free ride, are unlikely to vote for Labour, or the Greens, anyway.

      • Peter 8.2.1

        “Over 60% in a poll like capital gains taxes . . .”

        … on other people.

        • KJT 8.2.1.1

          Those other people that are booking capital gains, from services we pay for, but they cry about paying taxes to support those services.

          Taxes are the cost of living in a civilised, functioning country.

          If we all stopped paying taxes on income like capital gains tax dodgers, do. The country would not function for long.

          If you don’t like paying taxes, there are plenty of low tax paradises around the world. Somalia, Haiti, etc.

    • tracey 8.3

      i think people who earn money and pay tax and then save and pay tax on interest feel that property investors are getting an unfair advantage

      • Peter 8.3.1

        Excerpt:

        13-06-2007
        Housing tax advantage a myth – IRD

        By IAN LLEWELLYN

        Inland Revenue says it is a myth that investments in housing have a tax advantage over other types of investment.

        Revenue Minister Peter Dunne and IRD officials appeared before the finance select committee today and were quizzed about why people had the impression that there was some tax advantage in investments in rental housing.

        Deputy Commissioner Robin Oliver was blunt: “The short answer there is none.”

        Rules about expenses for deducting costs such as interest, upkeep and maintenance, as well as paying tax on income were the same for investments in shares or anything else.

        Mr Oliver said the rules were tougher for housing investment than other types.

  9. Greg 9

    Try this one
    I saving for retirement through kiwi saver the employers contribution is taxed by National and Tax credit cut by National yet a person who buys an investment property for retirement is not taxed why are kiwi saver member treated differently or discriminated against.

    • KJT 9.1

      So are farmers and other businesses who run them as a long term business, to make income, not capital gains.

      The incentive is to run the business for short term capital gains, rather than build a sustainable long term income earning asset.

      Time all income was treated equally for tax.

  10. Darth smith 10

    These nact home owners are holding society to ransom
    Young are being held to ransom with high rents that should be going to pay there own house or food.
    Tax payers are being held to ransom by haveing to
    pay out billions in rental supplement .
    Savers are being held for ransom with record low interest rates and then thank to national people with savings accountso are on the hook because of open bank resolution policy these wacky speculators are give us the two fingers.

  11. Ad 11

    Great to see Ardern ruling out income tax increases today.

    • KJT 11.1

      Not a good thing as taxes on the well of, who use most of the tax provided resources, have to rise so we can pay for reversing the destruction of the last 9 years, before the economy falls over.

      We can’t keep bringing in 75 000 new migrants every year just to cover the fuckup, the last 30 years, has been.

      There won’t be an insurance money from earthquakes hospital pass every time. Also.

      • Ad 11.1.1

        We’re running a budget surplus of over $2 billion a year.

        With that you could rebuild Dunedin Hospital from scratch, and put a new teacher in every primary school in the country,with change for a cold beer at the end of the day.

        Then do something else the next year. Say $2b of housing.

        They don’t need any more of our money.

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 11.1.1.1

          “They don’t need any more of our money.”

          They is us! It is all our (the community’s) money – the government is us, levying taxes on us. Your sentence could be re-written:

          “The community doesn’t need any more of each individual’s money”

        • KJT 11.1.1.2

          But the community, all of us, do.

          To pay for the damage done by National.

        • mikes 11.1.1.3

          “They don’t need any more of our money.”

          They wouldn’t, if everyone was paying their share.

        • tracey 11.1.1.4

          Pretty sure that 2b is gone in one fell swoop on rail promises

      • mikes 11.1.2

        The “well off” tend to not pay much income tax. Let’s face it, the only people who pay their full fair share of income tax are salary and wage earners who are taxed at source and can’t claim back any expenses as tax deductions.

        • KJT 11.1.2.1

          Yes. The “middle” income earners pay around 70 to 80 % of total tax. (depending on the source).

          Not rich enough to hide their income, or escape GST.

          Which is why CGT, wealth taxes and inheritance taxes are required to broaden the tax base. And capture unearned wealth accumulation.

  12. greg 12

    and so she should paye in real terms is in decline but untaxed income on none productive assets is increasing.

  13. Peter 13

    There are three reasons to impose a tax:

    – to raise revenue to run the Government. These taxes should generally be widely spread, low level, easy to administer and difficult to avoid, eg GST.

    – to penalise behavior that the majority of people think unwise or distasteful. These taxes should be at a high rate and obvious in order to deter that behaviour, eg tobacco tax.

    – to be be vengeful or spiteful (often called envy taxes). These taxes are not imposed to raise revenue, they are based on the concept “You have it and I don’t, I don’t like the fact you have it, so I’m going to penalise you for having it”, eg a capital gains tax.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1

      Drivel. The reasons to introduce a cgt are exactly as stated. In my case, I have it, and you also have it, and I agree with a cgt, and if you feel penalised you need to stop being such a whiny cry-baby.

    • Andre 13.2

      Um, a capital gains tax is levied at the time of sale. When the thing you used to have got turned into a purely financial instrument. A CGT is the contribution back to maintaining the society that made a profitable capital gain possible.

      It’s TOP’s proposed Comprehensive Capital Tax that it is based the concept of “you have something so we’re going to tax it simply because you have it”.

    • mikes 13.3

      The majority of people probably think that property speculation or receiving untaxed income from capital gains are unwise and / or distasteful.

      (There’s always at least 2 sides to every idiot argument)

    • mikesh 13.4

      A fourth reason for tax would be to compensate the community for things which you have but which are technically part of the common wealth. A land tax would come in under this heading.

    • Technically, as the government can create money, it doesn’t need to raise revenue. In fact, the government should be the sole source of money in the economy.

      All national resources used need to be paid for in such a way and at such a rate as to ensure most efficient use. Some people call the payment for these resources taxes, others call them royalties. What we do know is that they’re not enough as they presently allow unsustainable use of our resources.

      There are no such thing as envy taxes. Just the greed of the rich as they destroy our society that we need to do something about. Personally, I prefer legislating them out of existence. Make it so that people can’t become rich in the first place rather than trying to fix things after they’ve fucked things up.

  14. KJT 14

    Bullshit.

    Why should i pay more income tax, on my hard work and skills, so that someone who makes 100k extra a year just by owning a house in Auckland, doesn’t.
    It is distorting investment, bad for the economy and costly to the rest of us, who pay for the extra infrastructure for immigration, so tax dodgers can have rising house prices.

    Capital gains taxes simply reduce your free loading off those of us who pay taxes.

    The spite and envy from the wealthy was obvious last week.

    “The rich are so envious of the poor, they take what little they have left”.

    • tracey 14.2

      +++++100

    • mikesh 14.3

      The only person who could reasonably complain about the $100,000 capital gain would be the purchaser of the property, who had to to pay for it as part of the purchase price. I don´t really see that anybody else, taxpayer or otherwise, is affected by it. And the purchaser can be assumed to have paid for it willingly, presumably with his tax paid income.

  15. savenz 15

    For those that think capital gains will mean the rich will pay more. Look at Peter Thiel he’s a NZ citizen although does not live here, he owns a 193 hectare (477 acre) estate near Lake Wanaka. Under a capital gain tax he pays nothing because it can probably be classed as his family home, or could buy some major company in the same year he sells it and ‘make a loss’!

    If there was a stamp duty at least NZ could have got some taxes out of him when he bought it.

    If there was a non resident property tax on the property he could pay something.

    At present he’s got circa 30 million profit from xero shares which were described as a ‘sweetheart deal’. Did this guy pay 33% top tax rate on his profits, I somehow doubt it!

    Only the locals are paying taxes and the middle classes know it and are getting pretty peeved off being told to pay more and more for less and less, and now not even being about to afford to buy premium property in our own country…. We are expected to crowd fund to keep our own beaches public for God’s sake.

    Something is wrong with the taxation discourses and remedy’s because those solutions being advocated don’t seem to be taxing those that could do with a bit of taxation to people who appear to contribute little to nothing to our country but increasingly own a chunk of it.

  16. savenz 16

    Look at the headlines around the world (Granny does not publish stories like that as it is not in their interests to point this out to the masses). Taxes are based on profits and profits can easily be manipulated.

    Any way rather than worrying about the ‘top tax rate’ maybe politicians need to tighten up the rules so they are fair for all taxpayers and not able to be manipulated!

    Bonus for Pearson chief despite biggest loss in company’s history
    John Fallon awarded total of £1.5m, including a £343,000 bonus, after world’s largest educational publisher reports £2.6bn pre-tax loss
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/24/bonus-for-pearson-chief-despite-biggest-loss-in-companys-history

    Chanel owners pay themselves $3.4bn dividend – four times company’s net profit
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/23/chanel-owners-paid–34bn-dividend-alain-and-gerard-wertheimer

    • Bonus for Pearson chief despite biggest loss in company’s history

      One wonders what sort of contract provides for a bonus when the contractor doesn’t meet expectations.

      Chanel owners pay themselves $3.4bn dividend – four times company’s net profit

      Need a law that says that a company cannot pay out in dividends per year more than its yearly profit.

      • KJT 16.1.1

        Borrowing to buy a company, then borrowing to pay dividends is an all to common practice.
        Usually ends in the company collapsing with suppliers, minor shareholders and employees left on the street. And, in New Zealand, the major shareholder walking off with the money, and a knighthood. Usually just before the crash, unless he can get a tax funded bailout.

        Legalised theft and fraud.

        A recent Prime Minister, showed us all how it is done with a country.

        “Jail is where the big criminals put all the little criminals”

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    A Sustainable Proposition: With as much as 18 percent of the electorate declaring itself “undecided” about who to vote for, there is obviously plenty of space for a party like former Green Party member, Vernon Tava's, about-to-be-launched "Sustainable NZ Party" to move into. The most hospitable political territory for such ...
    3 days ago
  • What the actual Hell?
    Keir Starmer has hinted that Labour might vote in favour of the Johnson government's shoddy deal, with the proviso that a second referendum is attached:Speaking to BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show, he said: “We will see what that looks like but it makes sense to say that by whatever ...
    3 days ago
  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    5 days ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    5 days ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    6 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    6 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    6 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    7 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    7 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    1 week ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    1 week ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    1 week ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    1 week ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 week ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 week ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 week ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 week ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    2 weeks ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago

  • Government to progress Control Orders for community safety
    The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill will have its first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Andrew Little says. “The control orders Bill will mean our community is better protected from the risks of the very small number of New Zealand citizens who have engaged in terrorism related activities overseas. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • World-first plan for farmers to reduce emissions
    The Government and farming sector leaders have agreed to a world-first partnership to reduce primary sector emissions in one of the most significant developments on climate action in New Zealand's history. Today farming leaders and the Government announced a plan to join forces to develop practical and cost-effective ways to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • More homes where they are needed
    More houses for homeless New Zealanders are being opened today in Tauranga by Associate Housing Minister Kris Faafoi. Six 2-bedroom quality units are being opened at 878 Cameron Road by Minister Faafoi and Accessible Properties, a local Community Housing Provider (CHP). Accessible Properties now provides more than 1,700 community housing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Minister of Finance and Sport and Recreation to visit Japan and Vietnam
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson departs tomorrow for events and meetings in Japan and Vietnam.  While in Japan, he will discuss economic and fiscal issues including meeting with the Minister of Finance, Taro Aso, and Minister of Economic and Fiscal Policy, Yasutoshi Nishimura. He will meet with the Minister of Education, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Dashboard tracks housing progress
    The Government’s Housing Dashboard released today confirms record numbers of state houses are under construction and shows the Government build programme is gaining momentum.  “After nine years of inaction, and a hands-off attitude from the previous government we’re starting to see things move in the right direction for housing,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Ministerial Statement on the International Convention Centre fire
    Mr Speaker, I wish to make a ministerial statement relating to the Auckland fire. The Government is closely monitoring the situation with the fire at the NZ International Convention Centre and is thankful that everyone is now safe. Firefighters are doing an incredible job managing the fire and bringing it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Government invests in Te Reo, environmental data research
    The Government is investing in ambitious research that will digitise Te Reo, grow the low-carbon protein efficient aquaculture industry, help interpret environmental trends, and large data sets says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods. The four projects range from teaching Siri to speak Te Reo to crunching large environmental ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government announces next steps as part of a comprehensive plan to fix skills gap
    A new education-to-employment brokerage service to strengthen connections between local employers and schools. Funding for more trades focused ‘speed-dating’ events to connect schools with employers. Promotional campaign to raise profile of vocational education. The Government is taking action to increase the number of young people taking up vocational education and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Corrections Amendment Bill passes third reading
    A Bill to improve prison security and ensure the fair, safe, and humane treatment of people in prison while upholding public safety has passed its third reading. Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says the Corrections Amendment Bill makes a number of changes to ensure the Corrections Act 2004 is fit for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Ngāi Tahu CEO appointed to NZ-China Council
    Minister for Māori Development, Nanaia Mahuta, has selected Arihia Bennett MNZM, Chief Executive Officer of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, as the Te Puni Kōkiri appointed representative on the New Zealand-China Council. The New Zealand-China Council (the Council) was established in 2012 as a New Zealand led and funded organisation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Southern Response claims move to EQC
    Responsibility for processing the small number of Southern Response claims still to be settled will be transferred to EQC by the end of the year. “As claim numbers reduce, it no longer makes sense for the Crown to have two organisations processing the remaining Canterbury claims,” Grant Robertson says. “Since ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bowel screening starts in Whanganui
    Health Minister David Clark is encouraging Whanganui residents to take up the opportunity for free bowel screening, which can detect cancer early when it’s easier to treat.   Over the next two years 12,000 Whanganui locals, aged 60 to 74 will be invited to participate in the National Bowel Screening ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Pacific Peoples Minister to attend Our Ocean Conference in Norway
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio, heads to Oslo today to represent New Zealand at the sixth Our Ocean Conference, which is being hosted by the Norwegian Government from the 23-24 October. “The Our Ocean Conference mobilises real action on issues like marine plastic pollution and the impacts of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures Conference: Connection...
    Session 4: Pacific Connectivity – Youth, Media and New Opportunities   Kia ora tatou katoa and Warm Pacific greetings to one and all. Representatives of Tainui, the local people of the land, or manawhenua – the indigenous peoples of this area – have welcomed you this morning in accordance with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
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