As politicians go….

21 comments on “As politicians go…. ”

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1. Ad 1

   18 November 2016 at 10:03 am

   China is the world leader in climate change.

   Both positive and negative.
   • Bill 1.1

     18 November 2016 at 11:03 am

     In absolute emissions based on territorial measurements, yes. In terms of an average that takes population into account, no.

     10% of humanity spews 50% of emissions (Studies by Oxfam and Chancel and Piketty). The US is way over-represented in that 10%.

     Hell, China’s probably way under-represented in the 40% of humanity who spew 40% of emissions and over– represented in the 50% of humanity that accounts for only 10% of total emissions.
     • Ad 1.1.1

       18 November 2016 at 11:25 am

       By leadership I mean leadership, not per capita emissions.

       Plenty of coal fired stations being built, plenty being shut down or regulated out of town. Leading the way in cheap photovoltaics as well.

       I saw from the Moroccoa reporting that the recent CO2 emissions this year had flatlined and this was attributed in part to regulatory changes in China.
   • Macro 1.2

     18 November 2016 at 12:24 pm

     Don’t forget that the west has exported most of its GHG emissions for production to China. It’s highly unfair to blame China wholly for being the world’s greatest emitter.
     • mpledger 1.2.1

       18 November 2016 at 3:26 pm

       China didn’t have to produce for the West.
       • Macro 1.2.1.1

         18 November 2016 at 4:31 pm

         What the heck are you talking about!
         If it wasn’t China then it would be India and if not them then Indonesia or anywhere where labour and energy were cheap. This is a decision more made by western corporations and westerners who want cheap products and are not particularly concerned how or were they are made.
         The fact is Westerners have exported their production off-shore, yet we still remain the major consumers. So we should not be pointing any fingers at China or anywhere else that our Cars, boats, TVs, Clothes, Home Appliances, Smart Phones, wine bottles, or any thing else we import are produced.
         • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.1

           18 November 2016 at 6:30 pm

           If it wasn’t China then it would be India and if not them then Indonesia or anywhere where labour and energy were cheap. This is a decision more made by western corporations and westerners who want cheap products and are not particularly concerned how or were they are made.

           The profit drive – destroying things since forever.
           • Macro 1.2.1.1.1.1

             18 November 2016 at 6:49 pm

             Exactly – but it really intensified after WW2 when the major manufactures realising they didn’t have a war produce stuff for anymore turned to advertising to create the consumption economy. Now stuff is produced that is no longer expected to last more than a couple of years, and we are bombarded with advertising telling us to buy stuff we do not need.
2. Anne 2

   18 November 2016 at 10:27 am

   I love that man.
3. Carolyn_nth 3

   18 November 2016 at 10:28 am

   The, or one of the ways, forward for the left: be bold; state the issues directly, clearly and with passion; spell out the impacts for people, society, and/or the future of the planet.

   Do not “not going silently into the night” – rage, rage,..etc.
   • Ad 3.1

     18 November 2016 at 11:40 am

     http://www.politico.com/gallery/2016/11/matt-wuerker-cartoons-november-2016-002369?slide=0
     • Carolyn_nth 3.1.1

       18 November 2016 at 11:44 am

       And therefore, campaigns, speaking out, grassroots movements, etc are of no use? because the system is rigged? But not in the way Trump claimed?
     • Bill 3.1.2

       18 November 2016 at 12:02 pm

       All very good Ad except (assuming you agree with the cartoon’s message), people did vote successfully against the radical but moribund centre; the same centre that undermined and thwarted Sanders – that is still using every opportunity to undermine Corbyn – that played the ‘project fear’ card in the last UK election (Labour in the pocket of the SNP) – that still insists BREXIT was racist and not about austerity – that poured pragmatic bile on Syriza – that without any exceptions hyped ‘Project Fear’ during the Scottish Independence referendum…I could go on.

       If the radical centre had won (elected Clinton) then protests and democratic pressure from below would have been entirely appropriate in that instance too.

       And to add to the positivity, those getting up off their arses aren’t being castigated as being somehow aligned with the Tea Party (although I saw a Guardian headline yesterday implying that current opposition to Trump is just the Tea Party of the left 🙄 ) and they ain’t being shut down because of any suggestion (likely under a Clinton admin) that they’re just being misogynistic.
       • Ad 3.1.2.1

         18 November 2016 at 12:18 pm

         Not sure why it’s useful to lump all protest and all Brexit and all Trump votes and all Sanders supporters into one great soup called “radical”. Or even worse, to expand even that incoherent definitional soup to include ‘radical’ to mean all those who voted for Clinton.

         Nor is it helpful to ‘rage, rage against the dying of the light’. No light is dying. The Demos got beat – it was hardly unusual after 2 terms.
         • Bill 3.1.2.1.1

           18 November 2016 at 12:59 pm

           No, I’m not sure why it would be in any way helpful to lump all protest in one great soup called “radical” either. Who did that?

           As for the term ‘radical centre’ well, that’s a fairly well understood and kind of useful term these days.

           As for the Democrats getting beaten – do you really not get that it’s the (choose your preference) the liberal establishment/radical centre that’s being roundly rejected in place after place and in vote after vote?

           And what “dying of the light”? Oh. You’re referring to Carolyn’s comment about Trump’s election rather than anything to do with the likely demise of the liberal establishment/radical centre, I see.

           I do kind of wonder what the comments section of this blog is going to look like when or if Gareth Morgan positions his Opportunities Party as the anti-establishment option for the upcoming NZ election?

           Will the comments and posts fall in line with the predictable onslaught that will be unleashed by the establishment’s stenographers? Or will the comments and posts tend to reflect the opportunity to escape the morbid death grip of NZ’s “steady as she goes/pretend and extend” political environment?

           The month of December will reveal all I guess.
   • Rae 3.2

     18 November 2016 at 3:15 pm

     Some card said the other day, Trump is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon stomps around knocking all the pieces over and shitting all over the board, then declares himself the winner.
     I kind of got to thinking, that is how dealing with many right wingers is like at present.
     Pigeon pie, anyone?
4. left_forward 4

   18 November 2016 at 11:38 am

   This is what political leadership is all about – finally a voice for the people!
5. Tiger Mountain 5

   18 November 2016 at 11:46 am

   a class analysis and class understanding is still what is needed for strong enthusiastic leadership; leaders who help empower and take the people with them; that is why Bernie and Jeremy resonate with so many

   “practical leadership for practical action”, “work with and struggle against”, etc. Bernie would have made a great President
6. Karen 6

   18 November 2016 at 11:46 am

   “So we say to President Obama, in any and every way you can, stop the pipeline”.

   He has 2 months and nothing to lose. However it would need to be made impossible for the incoming government to overturn the decision and I am not sure that can be done just by the president with a Republican house and senate majority.
7. Rae 7

   18 November 2016 at 3:10 pm

   I wonder if Bernie would let us clone him
   • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster 7.1

     18 November 2016 at 8:01 pm

     When you listen to Bernie speak, you come to realise enormity of what the USA and the world lost!

     Damn and blast the elites!

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