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Be there – tonight

Written By: - Date published: 2:47 pm, August 19th, 2013 - 94 comments
Categories: accountability, national, peter dunne, Spying - Tags: , , , ,

Final reminder of the pro-privacy anti-spying meeting tonight. Also worth noting in this context is Alastair Thompson’s excellent open letter to Peter Dunne. Read it. Will Dunne be a hero?

gcsb-poster2

94 comments on “Be there – tonight ”

  1. aerobubble 1

    Were the appendixes to the Kitterage report leaked? If so this was a serious breach of the intelligence committee either as a leak or inability to find the leak. If not, was it designed to rile up the opposition who would rightly jump at lot higher than the pre-leak of the report that Key would have released anyway.

    Dunne obvious had party political problems, maybe due to his stance on asset sales, that led to many dropping their affiliation. Its would be interest to know if the same people have reaffirmed the United Future party or not. Since if they have then reasonable he should get leader status back, if not then politically he should take a hit for his asset sale stance.

    Why is Key not being bipartisan on a National Security debate, apart from the obvious, he doesn’t want to stand next to Shearer at the podium. And why does he want to rush it, and risk writing bad law, as his administration track record shows its quite capable. Human Rights consideration on top just get me worried that Key might actually want to back down and give Shearer his limelight and lead to a CGT tax, I mean Key never said he wasn’t agreeable, just that it was political suicide.

  2. xtasy 2

    I am about to head off to Downtown Auckland right now!!!

    Hope to see hundreds, better a few thousand of others there too, near and inside the old Auckland Town Hall next to Aotea Square in the Civic Centre area!!!

  3. Chooky 3

    +1 xtasy ….am with you in spirit…but unfortunately my body is on the other island

    BTW….a brilliant open letter by Alistair Thompson ( Scoop) to Peter Dunne…..Peter should remember that the eyes of NZers will be on him for many years to come and they will remember the way he votes on this Bill.

  4. lprent 4

    Maybe 10 minutes to time was a bit late to order a burger. Last time I arrived late and had to stand way down the back…

  5. DavidC 5

    So The Standard is printing verbatim an advertorial from its major advertiser?

    Credibility… nahhhh…why bother trying….

    [lprent: yes why bother. None of those people advertise with us. Outright lie.

    Banned until after the next election. You are a waste of bandwidth. ]

    • Veutoviper 5.1

      LOL – now complaining about his ban on KB General Debate and in discussion with PG on it!

      No coherent discussion there about the meeting – more interested in Duck Dynasty whatever that is.

  6. leftbutnotdeluded 6

    It is heaving in here.

  7. mickysavage 7

    TV3 poll result just in on the GCSB Bill 52,666 votes, 89% oppose, 11% in favour.

    Snapper are more important are they?

    • Anne 7.1

      Yes… Campbell Live has the last laugh!

      The largest poll in TV3’s history. Twice as many as those who voted for the Snapper poll and it was conducted in half the time.

      Congratulations Campbell Live. A job well done.

      I can’t connect to the Daily blog site to watch the meeting live. Anyone else having problems?

        • Veutoviper 7.1.1.1

          Thanks for that link, r0b. I missed the first half as I wasn’t able to get the TDB live stream up and was pulling my hair out, but got to see the second half thanks to your link to the TV1 stream.

        • xtasy 7.1.1.2

          Yes! TV1 this time definitely had the better video and general coverage, but besides of that, BOTH channels, TV3 AND TV One had this event as the first major item on the late news on Monday!

          This was a GREAT turnout, a GREAT event, it was EXCELLENTLY organised by Martyn Bradbury and Global Peace and Justice Auckland, and for that many, many thanks to John Minto (got 5 % support due to a Radio Live poll as supported mayor by the way!!!) and others!!!

          The tide is turning, I see this turnout and other news of the day, and as of recent, to show, the days of Key and “gang” are going to be OVER very soon. This government is losing credit fast now, it is only supported by the desperate house investors in Auckland and Christchurch, fearing their properties may “lose” value if Labour and support parties in government engage in a massive building program, to deliver more affordable housing.

          I sense even many in business are getting worried about this government, and we have with dairy exports now one stuff up after another, not being addressed by one useless minister that has no answers but constant calming down talk.

          The nation is facing crisis, is facing losing credit, with a government in overdrive at the wrong fronts.

          Snapper catch quotas that punish ordinary folk, child abusers “suspicion laws” that are totally out of the ordinary, to fast track laws making suspects crims before any fair tests are applied, selling assets, doing dodgy deals with casino operators, selling out to Hollywood, by changing labour laws for their convenience, harassing beneficiaries and poor, simply blaming them to be unmotivated to not make efforts to work, while they are bloody sick or disabled, that makes for a damned “sick” government, that must damned well go very, very soon!

          Key is ON the OUT, I sense, the tide is turning now, this event was a marker, to make a damned difference. We are on track now. Thanks to all supporters and comrades and fellows, we got Key shamed now, embarrassed, he is going to be on the way out. Book your ticket to your home on Hawaii, perhaps, the sooner the better, and NEVER come back, thank you (that is to John the drunk key fumbler, trying to get in, turning up late at home, too drunk to turn the key now)!

      • Shaz 7.1.2

        I wish the engagement in this issues wasn’t on such a ridiculous premise. Its insulting frankly that the comparison was made. The snapper issue does have a somewhat simpler premise that balancing the national security with personal privacy.

        However here goes – the snapper discussion paper was signalled a month before the consultation opened and is open for a month so the comparison figures are more impressive!

        See the consultation period http://www.fish.govt.nz/en-nz/Press/Snapper+consultation+closes+in+two+weeks.htm and the prior notice – http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1306/S00261/snapper-consultation-to-begin-next-month.htm.

    • Melb 7.2

      86% of the Campbell Live vote opposed marriage equality too.

      Self-selecting polls are a wonderful thing.

      • gobsmacked 7.2.1

        No. That was a text poll. They are always meaningless.

        For this GCSB one you had to give your name, and valid e-mail address. Weeds out the multiples and moneybags who skewer every text poll. And it still got the biggest response ever.

        • Melb 7.2.1.1

          People can’t create multiple email addresses?

          More importantly, this was still a self-selecting poll and as such just as meaningless.

          • Colonial Viper 7.2.1.1.1

            Its hard to lose, but you’ll get over it.

          • Macro 7.2.1.1.2

            What you say is true – to a point – people had to firstly be aware that there was such a poll – have access to it – and could conceivably “vote” more than once..although how many would go to the trouble of using multiple names and multiple email addresses i’m not sure. however it does have some significance in that firstly people had to give their name and that would have deterred some. and furthermore it would entail some conviction to take the time to engage in this. So it probably does give some indication of public feeling on the matter – not strictly statistically valid, as you quite rightly point out, but nevertheless with such a large response a good indication of public opinion.

            • Melb 7.2.1.1.2.1

              There are a lot of people opposed, but the only solid fact that can be taken from this poll is that 46,000 people oppose it. It’s not applicable to any type of extrapolation or claims that this is close to representative of the population. Any outlet that does so either doesn’t understand how statistics work, or is being misleading and hoping that it’s readership doesn’t understand how statistics work.

              Interestingly there’s currently a poll about the bill on the Newstalk ZB website; 47% support, 47% oppose, 6% unsure.

          • gobsmacked 7.2.1.1.3

            By that definition, every submission to Parliament on every bill is literally “self-selecting”. But it still matters, especially when there are tens of thousands.

            But if traditional opinion polls are more reliable measures … well, in the latest, National are down a whopping 7%.

    • Saarbo 7.3

      Thats fantastic, Campbell gets the last laugh…this will cost National votes. Obviously the public saw John Key’s performance quite differently to the media…interesting.

    • xtasy 7.4

      Snapper perhaps calling for a SNAP(per) election?!

  8. Lindsey J Rea 8

    Tried to get in to the Town Hall. At 6.50pm it was packed and the only seats were up in the gods and Doreen does not do heights. So we left the space for someone who would appreciate it more than us. Well done the organisers!

  9. leftbutnotdeluded 10

    Gawd helen….. bit of a shambles

    • lprent 10.1

      Bullshit. She did well. Pretty electric in here.

      • blue leopard 10.1.1

        electric…probably all the recording equipment the GCSB have running…..

      • leftbutnotdeluded 10.1.2

        I thought she was ordinary compared to Jane Kelsey and Rodney Harrison

        • tinfoilhat 10.1.2.1

          Compared to mumbles she was as eloquent as Dr King.

        • lprent 10.1.2.2

          She needs to get rid of the “head down” stuff. But her talk about the direct impact of this type of legislation with the economic damage on just the union movement was well received.

          I mean if you just think about something like the Ports of Auckland – that was *exactly* the opinion that both they and their paid voices (including those on the blogs) were arguing. I can just see John Key being stupid enough to fall for that argument. He has a tendency to not think things through much – just look at the retractions that as the Minister in charge of the GCSB and SIS he had to make about his own (??) legislation on his own department after the Campbell interview.

          You may not be “deluded” but you don’t appear to be thinking much either. Personally I can’t tell the difference.

          BTW: bearing in mind the importance of the security organisations to NZ under this legislation – should we start having a civics test for PM’s *before* PM’s are allowed to be PM in charge of security? Lets start with John Key.

          • blue leopard 10.1.2.2.1

            Watching Mr Key’s recent performances, this idea of a civics test; I actually think it is a good idea!

            I don’t think Mr Key has any appreciation of democratic or political principles at all. I think his head is still in that money laundering corporation way of doing things (- where he used to work. It was money laundering wasn’t it? Sori, I forget)

          • karol 10.1.2.2.2

            Yes. Helen made some very important points about surveillance of workers by employers. I didn’t know that stuff about Ports of Auckland workers finding video cameras installed on their cranes etc, to watch them, when they returned from the strike.

  10. bad12 11

    52,000 say NO on the Campbell Live poll, it takes a lot for a political issue to fill a major town-hall in this country,

    My bye bye Slippery might be a bit premature but my opinion is this piece of legislation, one stolen piece of freedom to far, will spell the end of this tragic mess of a Government…

  11. lprent 12

    Peter Dunne – probably going to be the most hated and despised arsehole in the country tomorrow.

    Oh and so will that spineless legacy of Act, John Banks.

    • karol 12.1

      Interesting speakers were also calling for one or two Nat MPs to break ranks and vote against the Bill.

  12. lprent 13

    Wow. Hone’s speech towards the end was impressive. You could literally hear a pin drop while we waited for him to finish…

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      Hone made some very very good points. Beneficiaries are expected to open up all their lives, bank account details, even txt and email messages to WINZ staff if requested.

      • lprent 13.1.1

        Yeah, and they have been doing that for years. That was his main point.. It was kind of diffident early on, but then got quieter punctuated with more clapping as the speech went on.

        He made his point and in an audience that literally ranged the gamut. One one side of me I had a person who I think was a Mana supporter. On the other a NZ First couple.

    • lprent 13.2

      And the same with Nicky Hager.

    • xtasy 13.3

      Hone got my respect, after that, and I have had time for him before. I kind of like the man, as he is the only one, at least of the rest of the speakers that were there, who dared to address the other major issues we face: Damned inequality and endless harassment of beneficiaries, the most discriminated lot in the country now!

      And yes, we (that is me as a WHITE beneficiary), we bear the brunt of what crap goes on, and we have been “investigated” and checked through endlessly so much before, just sadly too many others do not know about what goes on. So Hone, great, congratulations, you spoke some great words that night, and it is not just Maori and Pacifica that suffer, they admittedly are the majority that do, but the social injustices and persecutions are hitting many others as well now, for sure.

      But thanks, it was a great speech, a great night altogether, and despite of the rain outside at the end, I was glad I made the effort to take a solid stand, like so many others. My faith in New Zealand is starting to be restored after this great meeting. There are indeed Kiwis who care and dare, dare to take a stand, what a bloody refreshing experience!!!

  13. lprent 14

    Pretty costly to rent the hall etc. ~10k

    Donated $400 from TS. I’ll run it by Mike and the others tomorrow. I can easily cover it myself if needs be.

    • r0b 14.1

      Nice. Let me know if help needed.

    • lprent 14.2

      Worth us supporting I think. The last time I saw the town hall nearly that full was in the Labour conference leading up to an election – 1999, 2002? A longgggg time ago…

    • karol 14.3

      Excellent. My donation was paltry in comparison.

      • lprent 14.3.1

        There were a lot of people there. The buckets had a lot of green notes.

        But if it were $10k for the all-up costs of the meeting, then a $400 contribution provided 1/25th of the requirement which will help a lot. Meetings like this are probably more effective than anything else (a 10k billboard will be pitiful by comparison for both gossip, media and blog coverage) – so we should make sure they keep happening.

        It just provides me a bit more of an incentive to chase the outstanding money owed to us.

  14. Macro 15

    Amazing show – well done!
    We live in the Age of Stupid, and if our stupid “leaders” don’t heed this warning they are in for a very big surprise…

  15. Whatever next 16

    Yep Macro, not only using George Orwell’s 1984 as a guidebook, but viewing the film “idiocracy” as a documentary.
    Great night in Auckland, and well done to John Cambell for taking a risk in asking people to vote, a resounding ratification for your stance John

  16. karol 17

    I got there quite early. Was on the main hall/floor, near the front. Impressive numbers. I had radio Live to the right of me RNZ to the left, a guy with a C4 shirt nearby – was a very good media turn out.

    Helen Kelly was very good. The guy from the Orcon did an emotive speech but a bit weird – all about what a world leader NZ has been in the past.

    Kim Dotcom promised, yet again that John Key’s exposure (of his lies) will come – ditto Winston Peters. Are they to be believed?

    Shearer was looking a bit spaced sitting there – at one point I thought he was about to pass out. His speech had good content re the Bill – mostly. But the delivery was so boring – he didn’t seem engaged with it at all. i started to tune out.

    Maramar Davidson gave an excellent speech, on surveillance of Maori and other colonised peoples. but went well over time & the time keeper was getting frustrated – started dinging his bell a few times then gave up.

    I’m not a great fan of Russel Norman. But his speech, coming after Shearer’s lacklustre performance, was quite inspiring. About the broader issues of democracy.

    Hone was excellent on surveillance of Maori, Pasifika and the poor. Peters was Peters. Kelsey was excellent on the nitty gritty of 8C, and on the connection with TPP.

    The length of the call for donations was not well appreciated by many in the audience. There were a lot of speakers, and the guy trying to drum up donations went on much longer than he needed to. People new the importance of paying for the event – didn’t need over emphasising.

    • Olwyn 17.1

      I didn’t mind the man drumming up donations. The event was a big and expensive risk, and I guess he wanted to point out that paper money was more likely to meet requirements than one and two dollar coins. I particularly liked him getting the pollies to open their wallets.

    • Jilly Bee 17.2

      I wasn’t able to attend and watched part of it on line. It appeared (and sounded) to me that David Shearer had one doozy of a cold/flu type virus which made him more lacklustre than he usually comes across. I intend to watch it again tomorrow, hopefully without any interruptions!

    • lprent 17.3

      Woodhouse isn’t used to public speaking and was kind of winging it. Choked up.

      Maramar Davidson was good – needs to learn to cut back. It was starting to space me out at the end.

      Agreed about the length of the drumming. If they’d just started handing around the buckets and dredged the EFTPos’s out earlier, then it would have been a lot easier and simpler. I was pleased that they had EFTPos. Who carries cash these days in NZ?

    • xtasy 17.4

      “Shearer was looking a bit spaced sitting there – at one point I thought he was about to pass out. His speech had good content re the Bill – mostly. But the delivery was so boring – he didn’t seem engaged with it at all. i started to tune out.”

      I must say Shearer did OK, and that is about all we should expect. There was more than double the applause for Russell, and the same for Winston, and some of the other speakers also got better support, especially Marama, so that shows again, Shearer is maybe sincere and good hearted, but he is not the “best” leadership material that Labour need.

      But I better shut my mouth on that, as I am not a member and leave it up to Labour to sort out. I saw, well, had to think for a moment, what is her name, Jacinda Ardern too.

      A great meeting, and great speakers, generally, and I feel this is a sign of change to come. Just all the supporters have to stay courageous and not scare away from confessing to what they stand for.

      I even saw an elderly gentlemant with a National Party needle stuck on his coat, turning up with a female partner. I kind of vaguely remembered the face. But he seemed out of place, so I am not sure if he is a party dissenter, or was there to “investigate” the mood.

      He looked serious and “worried” after the whole meeting. Again, signs to come, the Nats are ON THE WAY OUT NOW, I am sure. So even with Shearer, allowing for Norman to do the tidying up and back up efforts, the opposition may actually win in 2014.

      Just keep Shearer back a bit, and let others do the hard work, please!

  17. Rhinocrates 18

    Sounds fantastic – sorry I’m in the wrong city. It’ll be interesting – and probably depressing – to see how this is spun by the likes of The Penguin and Whalecum, not to mention C-T and Key.

    Will Dunne be a hero?

    Oh puh-leez! [blows bubblegum, twirls hair, duckfaces, takes selfie] Dunne “heroic”? Can you imagine anyone less heroic?

    Well, apart from Shearer… but I have to say, Dunne has a sharper eye on his opportunities.

  18. Tanz 19

    Dunne will lose his seat if he votes for the bill, and so he should.

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      He’ll get a Board seat or three within 6 months.

      • Macro 19.1.1

        which just goes to show the talent that NZ has on its Company Boards..
        eg Graham, Jeffries, ….

      • Hami Shearlie 19.1.2

        Well, he was touting for a seat on the board at Sky City a while back I seem to remember!

    • Bearded Git 19.2

      Please let it be so!

      But Labour needs to strike a deal with the Greens so that the Greens do not stand.

  19. BrucetheMoose 20

    In the interest of fairness and conduct of a well balanced debate, I hope someone will be there to represent the other side of the argument. I would hate for snapper not to get fair representation.

    [lprent: Read our about for the solution in the section marked “No you must..“.

    If I can summarise in something like your terms (amended to remove ambiguity) – “Go do some fucking work you useless lazy dildo. You can’t freeload all of your bloody worthless life.”. Does that clear it up, dipshit? Or should I continue with the lesson?

    If you want “well-balanced” debate (ie where your opinions are predominant) you either have to provide it yourself through contributing some intelligent reasoning and argument. This does mean you have to exert some effort to both think up those arguments and to counter them. However this appears to be beyond your capabilities.

    Alternatively you can find the path that others have followed, like Pete (hi Pete – is this really worth another polemic on how much you don’t like me) George of trying to build an audience in your own site/movement by carping from the grave of your own ego and the desert of distaste that others have for it.

    BTW: Please read the policy.. ]

    • Rhinocrates 20.1

      lprent, I suspect that BrucetheMoose is being ironic, even sarcastic in this case and their comment is actually mocking Key’s attempts to trivialise the issue by bringing up snapper quotas.

      • BrucetheMoose 20.1.1

        Some have so sense of humour

        • framu 20.1.1.1

          bruce – i would recomend the [sarc] tag next time or a smiley 🙂

          removes any ambiguity

      • lprent 20.1.2

        I just go by what I read. In this case a recipe for fish and a plea for consideration of the oyster snapper at the top level comments in a post on a political meeting.

        I’m humourless when I’m moderating (as you’re aware). The place for out-of-context comments is OpenMike. It isn’t my job to provide the context, it is Bruce’s to make sure that the context is visible to both me and other commenters. The post doesn’t have *anything* about fish.

        • TheContrarian 20.1.2.1

          Yeah because saying “Whoops, sorry I was mistaken” would just be too difficult.

          • lprent 20.1.2.1.1

            Nope. I do that on the odd occasion when I misread the actual comment. You’re looking at the outside context of how someone else saw things. That isn’t part of my task and I have no intention of spending time considering peoples presumptions about what “everyone knows”. I’m not into radio talkback land…

            But when I’m moderating there are literally hundreds of comments per pass that I’m looking at in reverse order. Reverse order is a deliberate de-context of the comment. So what I see is the comment and which post and the name of who they were responding to. In other words something like a comment RSS feed, or people reading comments via the sidebar. I’ve read the posts. I might read the comment they are responding to. If I look at a comment and it fits the policy guidelines as being a transgression, then I respond to it and deal to whoever it is.

            But as far as I’m concerned it is not my job (or the moderators) to even attempt to read inside peoples heads as to their intent. Our job is to make sure that transgressions are not repeated. The commenters job to make their comments clear in effective isolation to me and to anyone else reading it.

            If they don’t communicate clearly then they may wind up with some summary moderation and some sarcastic observations to teach them caution. Does this make the relative responsibilities clear to you? Or are you going to keep wasting my time being upset about copping a educational ban?

            After all it isn’t you doing the work. As far as I’m concerned you’re just being yet another carping backseat driver.

            • TheContrarian 20.1.2.1.1.1

              You do that, sweet-heart. Maybe it would help if the policy reflected that outward acts of sarcasm will be met with a rude response from lprent if it isn’t made clear to him?

  20. Veutoviper 21

    I would have loved to be there, but too far from Wellington! Big thanks to all those who organised this public meeting.

    The TDB live stream failed for me, but was able to see the second half on the TV1 live stream thanks to R0b’s link above (can’t remember the comment number) – and was amazed that TVNZ had decided to run it. Kudos to them. Hopefully the whole stream will be available on On Demand, but not as yet.

    In my frustration at not being able to connect, I watched Campbell Live on the poll results and the end of their road trip – which was well worth watching for the comments of a number of the people they talked to in the final legs. They went via Waihopai and the secret spy place hidden in the lower NI and spoke to locals!

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Campbell-Live-GCSB-roadie-poll-end/tabid/817/articleID/309661/Default.aspx

    BUT Key appears to have been rattled even before the meeting as he walked out of his Monday post-Cabinet press conference today – refusing to answer a question from the floor about the GCSB Bill. Before doing so, he answered an earlier question with a load of bullshit, liking any surveillance to a nanosecond of the message going through a filter to check for viruses – with no details recorded of the message, content, sender etc.!

    http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Key-walks-out-of-press-conference/tabid/423/articleID/309655/Default.aspx

    I also heard him on RNZ National news talking about the latest milk problem and he sounded almost like Shearer – reading hesitantly and fumbling his lines.

    • Veutoviper 21.1

      OOPS – somehow that comment came up twice and I cannot delete.

      [lprent: Killed. There is a bug. I have tracked it down to the transaction lock (or rather lack thereof) by wordpress at the database. Looking at it. Seems to happen when there are lots of comments going in at the same time, and has only shown up since I switched the tables from MyISAM. ]

  21. Pasupial 22

    I couldn’t make it up to Auckland, and had to attend to the basupial after Jon Stephenson’s bit on the live stream. Hopefully the video will be up on TDB, or elsewhere, by tomorrow. The crowd size was inspirational. Good to know that we are not alone in resisting this surveillance state.

    Rodney Harrison was interesting, but hardly came across as engaging a speaker as Dotcom (or even Stephenson, in a more laidback way). The remaining speeches are certainly something to look forward to…

    When Dotcom was talking about the transcription software used by computer spies, I couldn’t help but think of Karol’s herculean task of the other day; in setting ShonKey’s drivel to type from the Campbell interview. If there really was a way to take all of his radio and breakfast TV appearances and put them in print without having to endure listening to the hypnotoad, then surely his teflon would tear like it had been scrubbed by steel wool!

  22. Tim 23

    If I may be so bold….
    I think its basically that Dunne is scared ….. he’s weighed up his options and considered that he’s not getting any younger, he’s considered his domestic predicament, and is just opting for the easy option – complete with the best baubles on offer.
    His only difficulty is trying to continue to convince us all that he’s (‘still’) man of principle.
    Funny how these buggers so easily lose touch with reality, and life outside their insular little bubble.
    The guy’s deluded enough to think that a walk or two through the J’ville Mall enables him to have a sense of “the common man”.
    His best friend is public apathy. Christ! what a legacy he’ll leave his offspring!.

    Oh well …. cudda shudda wudda.
    Bit of a tragedy really when one considers what his legacy COULD actually be. Playing bow tie dressups unfortunately ain’t going to cut it.

  23. Really interesting viewing the footage on TV; the range of people is extraordinary. Young/old, male/female, conservative looking/alternative, different races…very interesting indeed.

    This is good, such a range is less easily divided and marginalized.

  24. ianmac 25

    watched the streaming from Vietnam. good reception. Liked the no frills setup. (How many is a full house in the Town Hall?)
    Winston called Key a Liar. Unequivocal. Perhaps Key could sue Winston – and prove that he is not a liar.
    A range of very interesting people who are prepared to stand up and be counted.
    Interesting that in some other Western countries the disquiet over Security measures is across the spectrum – Left and Right. In NZ it seems that it is the Leftish who are concerned. Wonder why?
    Peter’s “Hypocrisy” is a bit odd. Stand on principle to avoid opening his email but vote for it to become legal.
    Great to read commentary as well.

    • lprent 25.1

      How many is a full house in the Town Hall?

      1529 seated in the Great Hall according to The Edge site (they book it out).

      In NZ it seems that it is the Leftish who are concerned.

      It isn’t really. They are just the ones organising these meetings. There is another whole stratum in the right as well. Have a look over at Russell Brown’s latest post.

      • Jackal 25.1.1

        According to this Wikipedia page, the Auckland Town Hall has seating in its main hall for 1,673 people. However this is not capacity, which is usually calculated by the floor area and the amount of people who can safely exit the building in an emergency. Capacity is what would be required for people to be turned away. The drinks area can accommodate another 1600 for instance, so I would presume there were over 2000 people attending.

        • lprent 25.1.1.1

          …so I would presume there were over 2000 people attending.

          So would I. However as the seats were as far as I could see all full, then 1529 from the current page of the booking agency is the absolute minimum. This is something that even jonolists should be able to grasp.

          • blue leopard 25.1.1.1.1

            I am aware of someone who was at Britain’s protests against the Iraq war and that was underestimated by about at least half a million by the worldwide press.

            I trust the same was done with the Occupy movement

            Can’t be being accurate, this would allow people to realise there are more people who feel the same way they do and this would mobilise more people into action.

            It is really good to have places such as the Standard to go to and find out about the events devoid of the censorship that follows the ‘alienation rules’ (divide and rule) opinion manipulation tactics the jonolists’ bosses deem necessary in order to keep their nests feathered.

    • Ugly Truth 25.2

      “Perhaps Key could sue Winston – and prove that he is not a liar.”

      If it came to a contest it would be up to Winston Peters to prove his allegation against Key. If Peters thinks he has the goods then why doesn’t he make it clear?

      • blue leopard 25.2.1

        @ Ugly Truth

        Perhaps its about preparing his ground; making damn sure that when he makes the revelations they have the desired effect and can’t be wriggled out of.

  25. tracey 26

    Agreed. There are folks on the right against it too. If you think lawyers arent conservative by nature you have forgotten all those lawyers in civil law. There would be major rumblings if the law society stuck to a line vehemently opposed by these folks

  26. tracey 27

    Here’s the problem. A sound bite from Winston but Key on at 715 on tv3 for 5 to 10 minutes.

    people are nor more elucidated on opposition but well reinforced on keys view.

    I had a 19 year old student cone to me laughing with praise for key “owning” campbell.

    yesterday I asked him if he had seen the follow up. He said he saw bits and pieces. He couldnt see how key had misled and “anyway I have nothing to hide so I dont care”.

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