‘interestingly’, the ‘thing’ hanging between the baboon’s legs was probably not its ‘thing’ but its scrotum – other apes are relatively modestly endowed compared to humans (gorillas are the size of a pencil, ‘hung like a gorilla’ is an insult in parts of africa) but have much larger testes. other apes also have bones in theirs. sorry, just thought you might be interested
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Bob McCroskie: So you do not want to see smacking banned?
Helen Clark:Absolutely not, I think you are trying to defy human nature.
Fister: There was a point to that comment? That is exactly what Helen said (and for that matter what the cartoon said).
Doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t be judged by the police and the judiciary for using excessive force. Removing s59 allowed that to happen for some of the really abusive parents who were hiding behind their interpretation of ‘reasonable’.
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Looked at that quote again. Looks like you only see what you want to see. Why didn’t you highlight the bit I did above?
You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists ?
a) children are not reasonable adults
b) children need protection and boundaries
c) children sometimes run wild and need forcible restraint and correction
labour’s solution to the above: create a police state and criminalize 90% of parents.
I think you may not have realised that when repeal of S59 legislation was passed over a year ago now, there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults… ie what most people would be comfortable calling a smack.
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
RedLogix, it’s probably because he believes 90% of parents hit their children with such force that it would not be described as ‘transitory an trifling’. If you believe that, you probably think children need a good hiding, and that this really is a police state. Maybe it’s just ill-informed hyperbole, but it is rather sickening.
Redlogix and Matt Pill – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics? It’s a bit like putting a band aid on a festering wound! At least we are GOLD MEDALISTS in infanticide due to the culturally sensitive pc crap adopted by an out of step government and disgraceful police force. Shame on Labour because the evidence is bloody sickening.
Every politician has blood on their insidious hands. The blood of slain vulnerable children, for example the Kahui Twins, etc…etc…. the list is endless!!!!!
The Kahui Twins – the list is endless…. That’s just one there mate. Endless would be lots more than that.
Can’t hit a man
Can’t hit a woman
Can’t hit an inanimate object and cause damage
Can’t hit a dog
Children? Yeah lets hit them.
I agreed with the repeal of s59 before it happened but now that I look back it seems a big mistake. It has caused a lot of damage to this government.It was the Greens that set it in motion –
Sue Bradford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed and I don’t think she really thought about all the blowback that a policy change like this might make.
Congratulations on that Sue. Now NZ is polarised into two extremist camps about this issue. Children are still getting thumped. Imbeciles like Simon Barnett and dad4justice are coming out of the woodwork telling people how its their right to beat the love of God into their children.
This looks like the issue that will push the public into the hands of Mr Key.
How many kids you got savage mongrel and the list , oh yes, CYFS helped murder Coral Burrows, how long ago was that retard savage git ? Have another drink Ruth !!
Researchers have done a study of European nations and guess what, they found a direct correlation between nations that allowed physical correction and high violent death rates for children. Brutalising in the name of “correction” is a problem.
A recent police report indicated that a total of 4 (yes 4) new prosecutions had occurred within 6 months because of the bill. One was diverted, three remain to be resolved.
It is pretty obvious that the bill has nothing to do with our child mortality rate. If you want to do something about our child mortality rate support the Bill and don’t support the beating of kids …
D4J: “Redlogix – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics?”
No, not in the short term. This is a common misconception. The S59 repeal was an attempt to de-ligitimate violence in society, thereby making all forms of violence (including child abuse) less socially acceptable; and to provide certainty to those prosecuting child assaults, so they can do so without fear that the defendants will mount a spurious defence based on the Timaru Riding Crop precedent (or others like it).
Get real Lew, forget the riding crop as scum use hammers to bash kids too death. Oh that’s right have a Hui and make an alibi.
This country doesn’t care about our children and it’s beastly that we don’t respect our most valuable assets.Save the snails and whales but forget the kids !!!!
Now now dad4justice. No need to resort to silly name calling.
That’s two cases you have named now – hardly endless.
It was Steven Roger Williams that killed Coral Burrows, not CYFS.
You can’t go on blaming the government and government agencies for the acts of others dad4justice. Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?
Savage: I think you’ve hit on something here, but haven’t quite got the emphasis right. I agree with your analysis that the bill has polarised the electorate and given undue credence to D4J and associated nutters, but it’s not Sue Bradford’s job to run damage control for the government over her own private member’s bill. As far as she’s concerned, members (or parties) voted for or against it of their own free will, and good on them for supporting it.
Labour are the ones in the gun here, for adopting this bill in apparent contravention of their own leader’s statement, for whipping their members when other parties allowed a party vote, and especially for failing to play the symbolic issues at stake here properly – allowing the debate to be framed as `criminalising good parents’ rather than `protecting the most vulnerable members of society’.
So while I believe it’s good law and will remain materially unimpeded for the future, referendum or not, in a sense the government deserves to lose this election for its handling of this issue; and National deserve to win it for Key’s masterful stroke of playing both sides – appeasing the smackers with good rhetoric and an attempted compromise, and supporting the bill anyway when the compromise was spurned.
D4J: But the fact remains that the authorities were reluctant to prosecute child assaults by parents because the Timaru Riding Crop case could be used as a defence (and was used, quite effectively, to gain acquittal in a number of cases). This means that many potentially winnable child abuse cases weren’t even brought to trial because the police didn’t want to risk scarce resources, money and public goodwill on losing cases.
Is that good? Isn’t it good that police can now bring all winnable child abuse cases to trial without fear of losing due to precedent?
D4J: It’s just pointless trying to discuss anything with you, but then, I ought to know that by now. Speaking of frothing, you’ve been doing a lot of it lately, even by your own foamy standards.
A cowardly creep am I? I take that as a compliment from a keyboard tough-guy such as yourself dad4justice.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
I don’t really see why you are so upset. If you told me a little bit about yourself and your situation then I might have some sympathy.
And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.
HS: “I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.”
I entirely agree. The trouble is that their causes tend to be polarised by the extremists on either side, and the symbolic issues take precedence over the practical issues to the point where people lose sight of what should be done because they’re too busy taking up a place in one trench or the other.
Edit: “And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.”
How can it be proved if it’s not given a chance? D4J is arguing it shouldn’t be given a chance. Whether passed or not, this would always have been a case of one side arguing `oh, if we’d just done it my way things would have been fine’. Any discussion of the matter on these grounds is simply getting foamy about a counterfactual – not very productive in either case.
Can’t blame d4j too much — the Standard and others repeatedly (and dishonestly) use silly hyperbole on this issue. FWIW the cartoon ironically illustrates some things that Kiro, Bradford and co. fail to recognise: that children can be naughty monkeys. But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.
[lprent: Read the Rules. Address it to a person, not to the machine, because programs don’t have opinions (as you should know, your site uses the same one). There are about 14 post writers and innumerable commentators here – address whoever you want to disagree with. The posters here would have problems agreeing on all topics. ]
Sorry Savage Ruth – I couldn’t resist one more dig. If you think that some anonymous internet person can make me angry then you don’t know much about me. Must go, fish pie and Monkeys brains for tea. Haha 😉
ropata: “But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.”
They presume no such thing. They simply believe that children – like all other human beings – should not be subject to systematised assault, ever, for any reason; guilty, innocent or otherwise.
I see ropata eventually returns; but noteably fails to answer the very simple question I asked him.
I have to conclude that he does not want to answer it.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
Contrary to what people imagine, laws do not stop crime. The only thing that stops crime is when people are too ashamed by their own consciences to commit the act.
The purpose of the law is two-fold. One is to punish and deter, but more importantly, it serves to set boundaries and standards..
Laws are big clumsy things that will only on occasion be of use to a child in an abusive home.
The bill was introduced with good intentions but has been hijacked by rightist idealogues, pro-family nut-jobs, scaremongering newspaper editors and rabid talkback hosts.
Violence against anyone is a bad thing. The use of force in parenting is a shortcut remedy to poor parenting. If mutual respect is there between parent and child then there will be no need for smacking. How do teachers cope with over thirty children in a class with no option of violence against the students?
“The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.”
Lew, Didn’t National also whip it’s MP’s after ‘the amendment that didn’t change anything’ was added? But like you say the point of this debate is symbolic. The substantive debate is over, the anti smackers won and the law won’t be changed.
The whole saga has been bad for Labour, the Greens, and the left in general, but if wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s all very well being evenhanded but when all’s said and done, the Nat’s know it’s a good law, they voted for it, and like the Civil Unions or any of the other base enragers, they have no intention of changing it. Partly because there would be an equally damaging backlash against them if they did, from the other direction.
The Nat’s followers and surrogates (but not so much the Party itself) are happy ranting about these things because they are easy propaganda points that keep a small sector energised. But that’s the only point of the exercise, and they’ll keep at it for years.
It’s akin to the religious right in the States on abortion. Talk, talk, talk, collect bucketloads of money and campaign assistance but for gawds sake never seriously challenge the legislation. ‘Cause then you lose the benefit of the propaganda. Which is money and a cheap stick to beat your opponents with. Symbolically of course.
Essentially they are encouraging the anger of a segment of the population, but they have no plans to calm then down by addressing their complaints. It’s pretty shitty stuff in view. But I don’t know how the LP or the Greens can combat it.
They don’t combat it. They just do some thinking before enacting legislation that might be turned into an almighty weapon to lever them out of government.
Redlogix: I think you may not have realised that … there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults
Is that so? In that case what was wrong with Chester Borrows’ amendment?
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
My ‘purpose’ is concern for the welfare of children and families, and the potential for abuse by government agencies.
Mathew Pilot corrected me above, I should have used the words “tifling and transitory”… which still to my mind defines ‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’. Does this exemption put your mind at rest? And if not, why not?
All laws have the potential to be abused by govt agencies. Do you propose getting rid of all of them for this reason? I didn’t think so. If a govt or it’s agents misuses the powers we give them, then that is a political problem entirely separate from the question of child abuse.
Fister: Don’t avoid it – there was no volte-face. You just didn’t bother to read the whole quotation. Read it again. This time ask yourself what the difference is between assault and discipline.
Then you may (but I am always an optimist) actually understand where she was drawing the distinction between Beating and smacking.
Then attempt to understand the changes to the Act. The police still have the discretion to decide which they consider constitutes an assault.
The only difference is that the judges can’t be stymied by parents that consider beating a child with a riding crop, a lump of timber, fists, etc as being ‘reasonable’.
I don’t think that any of the ones I listed are. Do you? Where would you draw the line? Define your ‘mu’ – don’t just use it to avoid defining what you consider is reasonable.
BTW: I started in the anti-s59 reform side. I didn’t see why the bill was required (I was a shit of a kid myself). The opponents of s59 reform convinced me otherwise. What some considered as reasonable in the way that they raised their kids appalled me. The legal situation got interesting after I read some of the judgments where s59 was raised as a defense made me realize how daft the old law was. It came down to deciding what is ‘reasonable’. The short answer is that it wasn’t definable without listing all of the limits. It is simpler to let the police decide as they are closest to the coalface.
Indeed Lynn, the politicized police and the dangerous CYFS idiots are working at the coalface in the Aunty Helen mine of corruption. Arrest that father,destroy family loyalties because they’re so hard to control said H2, go girls go!!!
Despite what people think, New Zealand *does* let parents smack their children in four defined circumstances, writes JOHN CALDWELL.
Certainly the use of “reasonable force”, including “smacking”, is now prohibited for the specific purpose of “correction” – a concept which had never been crystalline in its clarity. However, strikingly, the use of “reasonable” parental force against a child, the age of whom is left undefined, was declared to be permissible in four new circumstances.
These circumstances were (a) preventing or minimising harm to the child or another person; or (b) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in conduct that amounted to a criminal offence; or (c) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in offensive or disruptive behaviour; or (d) performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting.
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New National Party leader Todd Muller has been interviewed about his policies, and has promised to restart offshore fossil fuel exploration if elected: The Bay of Plenty MP rolled former leader Simon Bridges last week, but says the party has not changed its stance on previous promises. "That is ...
Anyone who keeps an eye on evidence around cannabis and public health will be familiar with the Christchurch Health and Development Study. It's one of two local longitudinal studies frequently cited with respect to cannabis and youth development. But in a new article in the New Zealand Medical Journal, it is ...
In the age of covid we are Jacinda’s team of five million, except for some. There has rarely been a more blatant case of discrimination against beneficiaries than Grant Robertson’s announcement yesterday that people who have lost their jobs because of the coronavirus will receive weekly payments of $490 per week for 12 weeks and $250 per week for part time ...
It was 75 years ago this month that Germany surrendered and the Allies celebrated VE (Victory in Europe) Day. Millions of people around the world had been killed and many more injured or captured. It was an end to war not just for Europeans, but their allies too, in countries across Africa. But its impact is ...
Well, we are out of lockdown, essentially. I did end up getting the wage subsidy while we were on levels 3 and 4 but I would have been fine if we didn’t. The first day of level 2, the Thursday, the office opened again for the people who weren’t able ...
Hon Shane Jones, NZ First List MP based in Northland New Zealand First MP Hon Shane Jones has today announced his candidacy for the electorate of Northland. Speaking at a New Zealand First meeting in Kerikeri, Northland, Mr Jones said it was a privilege to be selected by the Party ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today announced two diplomatic appointments: New Zealand’s High Commissioner to India and Consul-General to Hong Kong. “As New Zealand recovers from COVID-19, our diplomatic and trade networks are more important than ever. That is ...
We started the week by announcing free apprenticeships to support Kiwis into work and to help get New Zealand moving again - and we ended the week by extending the wage subsidy to 40,000 more businesses, helping to protect businesses and workers alike. ...
We’re confident in the ability of Kiwi businesses to succeed in the face of COVID-19, and our Government is committed to doing our bit to enable that success. Kiwi businesses have always been innovative and resilient, and the COVID-19 pandemic has proven this yet again. Many businesses are finding new, creative ...
New Zealand First is pleased to release the names of its first tranche of candidates for the 2020 election. The includes all sitting New Zealand First Members of Parliament except Clayton Mitchell MP who earlier today announced he will not be seeking re-election. In alphabetical order they are: MP ...
Clayton Mitchell MP, New Zealand First List MP based in Tauranga New Zealand First MP Clayton Mitchell has decided not to seek re-election in this year’s General Election. “After serious consideration and discussion with my family, I have decided to pursue other passions in my life and spend a lot ...
Defence Minister Ron Mark has announced that new Lockheed Martin Super Hercules aircraft would replace the outdated and costly 1960s Hercules fleet. The $1.521b project will include a flight simulator for staff training and other supporting infrastructure. "This fleet will ensure the Defence Force can continue to support New Zealand's ...
The Green Party is urging the New Zealand Police to rule out the use of Armed Response Teams, following their recent trial in communities around Aotearoa. ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has described Labour's original COVID-19 commercial rent dispute proposal as "poorly targeted". Justice Minister Andrew Little hasannounced a temporary law changeto force commercial landlords and renters to consider COVID-19 in disputes over rent issues, almost two months after the Government first floated the idea. But ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First New Zealand First acknowledges that some small businesses have been struggling to meet fixed costs due to the loss of revenue by COVID-19. We also know some businesses are at greater risk of insolvency when they cannot come to a reasonable ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First New Zealand First is disappointed that the removal of the spousal deductions has had to be delayed by the Ministry fo Social Development, due to COVID19 workload pressures. “New Zealand First has always stood for fairness when it comes to superannuation ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First On the steps of Parliament today the Leader of New Zealand First, Rt Hon Winston Peters received a petition from registered nurse Anna Maria Coervers, requesting an amendment to the Protection for First Responders Bill which will ensure the legislation also include registered ...
It's been a busy seven days as we start to rebuild New Zealand together. From delivering extra support for small businesses, to investing in our artists and arts organisations, to cutting red tape on home DIY projects, we're rolling out our plan to get the economy and New Zealand moving ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters says alert level 2 restrictions have to be discussed during today's Cabinet meeting. Thousands gathered across the country, including at Parliament, yesterday forBlack Lives Matter marcheswhere social distancing and mass gathering rules were flouted. Mr Peters said the breaching of Alert Level 2 rules at ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of State Owned Enterprises KiwiRail’s Northland rail upgrade steps up another gear today and will help Northland recover from the impacts of COVID-19, State Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters says. The Government is investing $204.5 million through the Provincial Growth Fund to ...
“Today and every day we stand in solidarity with George Floyd’s family, friends and community who feel pain and fear about his untimely death at the hands of Minneapolis police”, said Green Party Co-leader and Māori Development spokesperson Marama Davidson. ...
Fletcher Tabuteau, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Hon Eugenie Sage, Minister of Conservation The West Coast forests of Mount Te Kinga at Kotuku Whakaoho/Lake Brunner are the latest predator free project to receive Government funding, announced Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage and Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher ...
The Green Party says major freshwater reforms announced today provide the strongest ever protections of our waterways, to help ensure the next generation can swim in the rivers of Aotearoa. ...
The Green Party has begun the process for a Select Committee inquiry into student accommodation, which has been exposed during COVID-19 as an under-regulated sector that straddles students with unfair debt. ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Hon Megan Woods, Minister of Research, Science and Innovation Hon Dr David Clark, Minister of Health Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters, Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods, and Health Minister David Clark today announced a COVID-19 vaccine strategy, ...
Budget 2020 is about rebuilding together, supporting jobs, getting business moving and the books back into the black. It’s an integral part of our COVID-19 economic response, and our plan to grow our economy and get New Zealand moving again.Here’s a quick look at the five top things you ...
The Green Party is pleased to reveal its candidate list for the upcoming election. With a mix of familiar faces and fresh new talent, this exceptional group of candidates are ready to lead the Greens back into Government. ...
The Coalition Government has approved $206 million in essential upgrades at Ōhakea Air Base. Defence Minister Ron Mark said the money would be spent on improving old infrastructure. He said safety issues would be addressed, as well as upgrades to taxiways, accommodation and fresh, storm and waste water systems. "This ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First “I am not persisting with this case just for myself, but for all people who have had their privacy breached. Privacy of information is a cornerstone of our country’s democracy. Without it our society truly faces a bleak future. We now ...
This summer presents a great opportunity for New Zealanders to get out into nature with bookings on Great Walks for 2020/21 set to open next week, says Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. Bookings for the Great Walks will open between 9 and 11 June, excluding Milford and Routeburn tracks which ...
Extra 40,000 businesses to be eligible for wage subsidy extension Small business cashflow support application period extended The Government is today announcing further support for businesses that continue to be affected by the global COVID-19 pandemic, as the broader economy becomes one of the most open in the world following ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed five Lockheed Martin C-130J-30 Super Hercules transport aircraft will be purchased to replace the existing fleet, Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “Last year, Cabinet selected these aircraft as the preferred option to replace the current Hercules fleet. Procurement of the Super Hercules has been ...
The Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage is celebrating World Environment Day with an announcement of a major step towards Wairarapa Moana being recognised as an internationally significant wetland. “Wairarapa Moana is an ecosystem of 10,000 hectares of wetland and open water that provides a home for indigenous fish, birds and ...
New public housing that will save tenants money in energy bills, and provide warmer, healthier and more comfortable homes, is setting the standard for the Government’s future public housing programme, Housing Minister Megan Woods said. Dr Woods opened the new Kāinga Ora – Homes and Communities complex, which has a ...
A new-look Police graduation ceremony to take account of COVID19 health rules has marked the completion of training for 57 new constables. Police Minister Stuart Nash attended this afternoon's ceremony, where officers of Recruit Wing 337 were formally sworn in at the Royal New Zealand Police College without the normal support of ...
Mobile traders and truck shops must adhere to responsible lending requirements Interest rate cap on high-cost loans Lenders prohibited from offering further credit to an applicant who has taken two high-cost loans in the past 90 days The Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, Kris Faafoi, has signalled an end ...
94% of firms say wage subsidy had positive impact on cashflow 62% of firms say support helped to manage non-wage costs like rent A survey of business that have received the Government’s wage subsidy show it has played a significant role in saving jobs, and freed up cash flow to ...
New legislation introduced to Parliament today will support growth and assist businesses on the road to economic recovery, said Revenue Minister Stuart Nash. “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2020-21, Feasibility Expenditure, and Remedial Matters) Bill proposes that businesses can get tax deductions for ‘feasibility expenditure’ on new investments,” said Mr ...
Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson has welcomed the first release of funds from the $265 million Sport Recovery Package announced as part of Budget 2020. Sport NZ has announced that $4.6 million in funding will go to the Wellington Phoenix, NZ Warriors, Super Rugby teams and the ANZ Premiership ...
An iconic New Zealand tourism attraction and the country’s 31 Regional Tourism Organisations are the first recipients of support from the $400 million Tourism Sector Recovery Plan, to help position the sector for recovery from COVID-19, Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. The plan includes a Strategic Tourism Assets Protection ...
The Government will legislate to ensure businesses that suffered as a result of the COVID-19 response will get help to resolve disputes over commercial rent issues, Justice Minister Andrew Little announced today. A temporary amendment to the Property Law Act will insert a clause in commercial leases requiring a fair ...
The Minister for Small Business says new data from Xero highlights the urgency of prompt payment practices to small and medium enterprises as we move into economic recovery. Last month Government ministers wrote to significant private enterprises and the banking industry to request they join efforts by government agencies to ...
Young people in Waikato will be the first to have free access to period products in schools in another step to support children and young people in poverty,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. During term 3, the Ministry of Education will begin providing free period products to schools following the ...
The Minister of Police Stuart Nash has issued the following statement in response to charges filed against three Police officers this morning in the New Plymouth District Court. “Any incident involving a loss of life in Police custody is taken very seriously. The charges today reflect the gravity of the ...
$196 million for Crown Research Institutes $150 million for R&D loan scheme $33 million for Māori research and development opportunities $12 million for the Nationally Significant Collections and Databases $10 million to help maintain in-house capability at Callaghan Innovation New Zealand’s entrepreneurs, innovators and crown researchers will benefit from a ...
Further temporary changes to NCEA and University Entrance (UE) will support senior secondary school students whose teaching and learning have been disrupted by COVID-19. “The wellbeing of students and teachers is a priority. As we are all aware, COVID-19 has created massive disruption to the school system, and the Government ...
Minister for Racing Winston Peters today announced that the terms for the directors of the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) have been extended to 30 June 2021. Due to the COVID-19 crisis the transition period has been extended to ensure that the Racing Industry Bill can complete its progress through ...
The deadline for landlords to include detailed information in their tenancy agreements about how their property meets the Healthy Homes Standards, so tenants can see the home they are renting is compliant, has been extended from 1 July 2020 to 1 December 2020. The Healthy Homes Standards became law on 1 July 2019. The Standards are ...
Justice Minister Andrew Little today announced details of further appointments to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. “I am pleased to announce Paula Rose QSO OStJ as Deputy Chief Commissioner for a term of five years commencing on 15 June 2020,” said Andrew Little. “I am also pleased to announce the ...
The Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund (TTAF) will pay costs of learners of all ages to undertake vocational education and training The fund will target support for areas of study and training that will give learners better employment prospects as New Zealand recovers from COVID-19 Apprentices working in all industries ...
The Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) will finally start to cut New Zealand’s greenhouse gas pollution as it was originally intended to, because of changes announced today by the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw. The changes include a limit on the total emissions allowed within the ETS, rules to ensure ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the Queen’s Birthday 2020 Honours List provides an abundance of examples that Pacific people’s leadership capability is unquestionable in Aotearoa. “The work and the individuals we acknowledge this year highlights the kind of visionary examples and dedicated community leadership that we need ...
The Government is backing a new $27 million project aimed at boosting sustainable horticulture production and New Zealand’s COVID-19 recovery efforts, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Our horticulture sector has long been one of New Zealand’s export star performers, contributing around $6 billion a year to our economy. During and ...
Applications have opened for 2021 Ngā Karahipi Uru Rākau – Forestry Scholarships, which will support more Māori and women to pursue careers in forestry science, says Forestry Minister Shane Jones. “I’m delighted Te Uru Rākau is offering Ngā Karahipi Uru Rākau – Forestry Scholarships for the third year running. These ...
The Queen’s Birthday 2020 Honours List once again highlights the dedication by many to looking after our native plants and wildlife, including incredible work to restore the populations of critically endangered birds says Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. Anne Richardson of Hororata has been made an Officer of the New ...
The Government will invest $10 million from the One Billion Trees Fund for large-scale planting to provide jobs in communities and improve the environment, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Forestry Minister Shane Jones have announced. New, more flexible funding criteria for applications will help up to 10 catchment groups plant ...
Organisations that support women are invited to apply to a new $1,000,000 fund as part of the Government’s COVID-19 response. “We know women, and organisations that support women, have been affected by COVID-19. This new money will ensure funding for groups that support women and women’s rights,” said Minister for ...
Healthier waterways are front and centre in a new project involving more than 300 King Country sheep, beef and dairy farmers. The Government is investing $844,000 in King Country River Care, a group that helps farmers to lift freshwater quality and farming practice, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. “Yesterday ...
A major funding package for libraries will allow them to play a far greater role in supporting their communities and people seeking jobs as part of the economic recovery from COVID-19. “Budget 2020 contains over $60 million of funding to protect library services and to protect jobs,” says Internal Affairs ...
A jobseekers programme for the creative sector and four new funds have been set up by the Government to help our arts and music industry recover from the blow of COVID-19. Thousands of jobs will be supported through today’s $175 million package in a crucial economic boost to support the ...
Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has welcomed the First Reading of a Bill that will make legislative changes to further improve the veterans’ support system. The Veterans’ Support Amendment Bill No 2, which will amend the Veterans’ Support Act 2014, passed First Reading today. The bill addresses a number of ...
Views sought on Order in Council to help fast track the reinstatement of the Christ Church Cathedral The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Hon Poto Williams, will be seeking public written comment, following Cabinet approving the drafting of an Order in Council aimed at fast-tracking the reinstatement of the ...
The law setting out New Zealanders’ basic civil and human rights is today one step towards being strengthened following the first reading of a Bill that requires Parliament to take action if a court says a statute undermines those rights. At present, a senior court can issue a ‘declaration of ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today reiterated the deep concern of the New Zealand Government following confirmation by China’s National People’s Congress of national security legislation relating to Hong Kong. “New Zealand shares the international community’s significant and long-standing stake in Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability,” Mr Peters said. “New Zealand ...
Thousands of artists and creatives at hundreds of cultural and heritage organisations have been given much-needed support to recover from the impact of COVID-19, Prime Minister and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Jacinda Ardern announced today. “The cultural sector was amongst the worst hit by the global pandemic,” Jacinda ...
Key New Zealand assets will be better protected from being sold to overseas owners in a way contrary to the national interest, with the passage of the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Bill. The Bill, which passed its third reading in Parliament today, also cuts unnecessary red tape to help attract ...
Setting higher health standards at swimming spots Requiring urban waterways to be cleaned up and new protections for urban streams Putting controls on higher-risk farm practices such as winter grazing and feed lots Setting stricter controls on nitrogen pollution and new bottom lines on other measures of waterway health Ensuring ...
The Government is on the verge of reaching its target of state sector boards and committees made up of at least 50 percent women, says Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter and Minister for Ethnic Communities Jenny Salesa. For the first time, the Government stocktake measures the number of Māori, ...
Does a move to Covid-19 Level 1, that Cabinet is considering tomorrow (Monday, June 8), mean back-to-normal for 290,000 rental property owners and managers, Tenancies War spokesman Mike Butler said today. The Covid-19 Response (Urgent Management) Act, ...
ANALYSIS:By Denis Muller of theUniversity of Melbourne When a newspaper with the authority of The New York Times chooses to publish a party-political essay calculated to further inflame the violence wracking cities across America, serious questions arise. On June 3 the Times published in its opinion section an ...
For all The Spinoff’s latest coverage of Covid-19 see here. Read Siouxsie Wiles’s work here. New Zealand is currently in alert level two – read The Spinoff’s giant explainer about what that means here. For official government advice, see here.The Spinoff’s coverage of the Covid-19 outbreak is made possible thanks to donations from Spinoff Members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Noble, Education Policy Fellow, Mitchell Institute, Victoria University Three quarters of a million Australian children are likely to be experiencing employment stress in the family as a result of COVID-19. This is on top of around 615,000 children whose families were ...
Spice up the classic banana muffin with a subtle touch of star anise.These muffins came about one rainy Saturday when the cupboards were bare and there was nothing much left in the fruit bowl aside from some very sad-looking bananas. Fortunately we know sad bananas result in the best kind ...
For years, Work and Income has been telling New Zealanders they couldn’t get the benefit until their redundancy payments ran out. Turns out, it was wrong.What’s all this then?Work and Income has long told New Zealanders receiving redundancy payments that they weren’t eligible for the benefit until their redundancy money ...
New Zealand writer Anna Rankin reports from Los Angeles. Last Friday afternoon, I went downtown to a protest outside the enormous Los Angeles Police Department headquarters on 1st Street. The LAPD had set up cordons, placing orange cones across streets to block traffic. Arms crossed, they stood with a wide ...
Until the sudden closure of Bauer Media in April, Simon Farrell-Green was the editor of HOME, New Zealand’s oldest architecture magazine. Here he explains what comes next.Being the editor of a major architecture magazine was the best job I ever had. I got it in 2016, after a career spent ...
A global success story or an overly generous, unsustainable scheme that is doing lasting damage to our fish stocks? Ethan Neville looks at the ongoing debate over New Zealand’s fishing quota management system. The management of our fisheries is a touchy topic – and why wouldn’t it be? New Zealanders ...
By RNZ News Thousands of people were protesting across Australia today to oppose the deaths of Indigenous people in police custody. It comes as Black Lives Matter protests are held around the world after the death of George Floyd at the hands of a white police officer in the US ...
Wrapping everyone in a blanket of love, whakapapa and mauri for Matariki is the brave, exuberant and generous fabric art of Maungarongo Te Kawa, writes Amanda Thompson.E te AtuaNau enei rau harakeke he taongaTukuna ki a matouKia tika o matou mahiKo Papatuanuku e takoto neiTuturu WhakamauaKia tina, tinaHui eTaiki e.‘Karakia ...
For all The Spinoff’s latest coverage of Covid-19 see here. Read Siouxsie Wiles’s work here. New Zealand is currently in alert level two – read The Spinoff’s giant explainer about what that means here. For official government advice, see here.The Spinoff’s coverage of the Covid-19 outbreak is made possible thanks to donations from Spinoff Members. ...
One press statement from the Beehive yesterday sounded more like advertising – or a barker’s pitch – than a Government announcement. Another advised of two diplomatic appointment, one of them – has the woman who landed the post done something wrong? – to protest-troubled and politically volatile Hong Kong. And ...
It’s not often that someone graduates from university one year and becomes a senior economist commentating on national media the next. George Driver investigates the meteoric rise of the high-flying Brad Olsen.Google “senior economist Brad Olsen” and you’ll find him quoted in no fewer than 167 articles in the past ...
As public sentiment turned against Uber Eats, a new local operation emerged promising a more ethical alternative to help New Zealand’s struggling hospitality industry. But now Eat Local NZ has suspended trading after falling out with its Australian partner Mr Yum. So what happened?A dispute between local hospitality platform Eat ...
By Budi Sutrisno in Jakarta As the death of George Floyd, an African-American man who died while being arrested in the United States, sparks a global outcry, Indonesian rights advocates and young people have stepped forward to remind fellow citizens that racism has long been an issue at home as ...
Edward Cullen became a vampire to survive the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918. Now a new Twilight novel looms and Laura Surynt, a New Zealander living in the UK, wants to live forever too. As I lay in bed this morning watching Instagram stories, Tayi Tibble told my reluctant little Capricorn ...
Over the lockdown period, thousands of people joined a Facebook group dedicated to remembering the nightlife of inner-city Auckland. Its creator Simon Grigg explains why it touched a chord in lockdown.Within a few days of The Lost Nightlife of Inner-city Auckland Facebook page accidentally going live on May 12, we ...
Throughout Anglo colonial states there is a constant habit of defining people who aren’t white as a problem, writes Aaron Smale in this personal essay. It was a balmy summer evening in the capital and cops were standing over a young brown man. I was walking down Courtenay Place on ...
"The countdown clock ticks 2, then 1, then the prime minister raises her drink": dystopia, by Ōtautahi writer Laura Borrowdale. You stand in the centre of the room, and around you, the guests seem to swirl and blend into one. There’s a mouth, gaping and red, filled with laughter. A ...
Martin Luther King Jr said in 1963: “America has given the Black people a bad cheque, a cheque which has come back marked ‘insufficient funds’." Six generations of egregious police violence later, the sentiment out of which those bad cheques were born could be shifting. In the wake of egregious police violence, ...
WATCH: In a candid interview on Sky Sport, Dame Susan Devoy talks on her concern for rising sports stars, the state of NZ squash, and the spectre of racism. Dame Susan Devoy is proudly still “a little terrier who fights for the underdog”. “I have been doing it all my life and ...
Of the huge funding boost coming for early childhood education, Playcentre has been left with just the crumbs, writes Kate Barber. Amidst all the celebration of the $430m funding boost for early childhood education (ECE) announced in this year’s budget, little attention was paid to the plight of Playcentre. The ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vikrant Minhas, PhD candidate, University of Adelaide Although bacteria are single-celled and microscopically small, they still need energy to survive, just like us. One of the most efficient ways of acquiring energy for bacteria is through sweet, soluble carbohydrates: sugars. In fact, ...
PACIFIC PANDEMIC DIARY:By David Robie Three cartoonists had especially poignant takes on the tragic and toxic political aftermath of martyr George Floyd’s brutal killing under the knee of a white American policeman in Minneapolis last week. The Boston Globe’s Christopher Weyant featured a split frame contrasting a red-capped “Make ...
Are central bankers jealous that epidemiologists are the rock stars of the current crisis?There is talk that both the British and New Zealand central banks might institute negative interest rates as part of the policy response to the Covid shock. While Sweden’s central bank ended its five year experiment ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Monika Sarder, Senior Strategic Analyst, Monash University Algorithmic decision-making has enormous potential to do good. From identifying priority areas for first response after an earthquake hits, to identifying those at risk of COVID-19 within minutes, their application has proven hugely beneficial. But ...
LISTEN: This week's Extra Time podcast discusses racism in sport and the role of athletes and organisations in making a stand for good. Former Silver Fern and Black Fern Louisa Wall believes today's sports stars must have a social conscience and stand up against discrimination and divisiveness. Sport and politics, once ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Thomas, Associate professor, Flinders University We have seen ten days of protests in the United States over the death of George Floyd. While thousands of people have gathered to express their outrage peacefully, some demonstrations have been marred by vandalism and ...
40 percent of millennials have one, and an increasing number of GenXers and Baby Boomers do too. Two Cents' Worth delves into the world of side hustles. ...
Auckland writer Caroline Barron has a terrific book out today called Ripiro Beach: A Memoir of Life After Near Death. Here, she writes about the memoirs that have been a balm, a lesson, or both. Throughout my life, I’ve sought solace between the covers of books, particularly memoirs. There, I’ve learnt ...
An exclusive interview with Steve McSteverson about his traumatic and tragic ordeal this week.Many New Zealanders are struggling with the news that a children’s book not commissioned or authorised by Jacinda Ardern was advertised in a newsletter for children’s books. This horrific attack on New Zealanders whose ears are permanently ...
Air New Zealand staff are dismayed and angered at the company’s announcement to cut a further $150 million from their wage bill. On Friday, the company’s Chief Executive Officer, Greg Foran, made the announcement to employees, who are still ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dr. Bodean Hedwards, Lecturer, Monash University This week the leaders of India and Australia reaffirmed their mutual interest in closer diplomatic and economic ties. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi told Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison during their long-delayed Thursday “virtual summit”: ...
The Herald reported this morning that MediaWorks was on the verge of selling its TV assets to US TV giant Discovery – but an internal email and senior source suggest the story may have been premature.A senior MediaWorks source has emphatically denied a report in the NZ Herald that a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gery Karantzas, Associate professor in Social Psychology / Relationship Science, Deakin University Life in lockdown has been tough on many relationships. But negotiating the transition back to “normal” as restrictions continue to lift could also be a challenge for couples. So what ...
A slight bounce in the economy is brightening the outlook as the country heads into the winter months, Radio NZ reports. Retail spending is up and NZ shares rose on Thursday for a third day running. Key indicators have led some economists to point to a faster recovery than expected. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Geoff Hanmer, Adjunct Professor of Architecture, University of Adelaide HomeBuilder is a good idea gone bad. It is possibly the most complex and least equitable program the government could have devised to deliver construction jobs. It gives $25,000 to people who already ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Keller, Professor of Cognitive Science, Western Sydney University The coronavirus pandemic has silenced the world’s concert halls and opera theatres. Organisations specialising in live performance face an existential crisis under current restrictions on social gatherings, with up to 75% of people ...
Finance Minister Grant Robertson, wearing his Sport and Recreation ministerial hat, can show he can be a big spender and draw voters’ attention to his largess each time he dispenses money from the funds under his control – or the control of an agency within his ministerial bailiwick. Yesterday he ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Pi-Shen Seet, Professor of Entrepreneurship and Innovation, Edith Cowan University Scott Morrison wants to overhaul the skills workforce to ensure a better post-COVID-19 recovery. But there may not be enough people with the necessary skills to do so. And travel restrictions, which ...
As we transition out of a Covid-focused world and prepare for what comes next, New Zealand’s ICT industry is gearing towards growth.From app development helping track the Covid-19 virus to website engineering keeping businesses in touch and online, ICT knowledge has been crucial to keeping New Zealand working over the ...
Analysis: As New Zealand eases restrictions, it no longer has international precedent to look towards and must decide on its own how to reopen the economy while reducing the risk of a second wave of infections, Marc Daalder reports While most of the country eagerly awaits a likely move to ...
Ten days is too long. That from insurance claimant advocate, Ali Jones. EQC has today made contact with homeowners via email after accidentally releasing confidential details of 8000 insurance claims on May 26. Jones says although she has not received ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Girl, Woman, Other by Bernadine Evaristo (Penguin Classics, $24)Winner of the 2019 Booker Prize. The other day, ...
Simon Day discovers how the voluntary carbon market allows both individuals and companies to offset their emissions at the same time as investing in native forest regeneration.When Celia Wade-Brown sold her first batch of carbon credits earned from the native forest on her Wairarapa farm, she had two customers: Z ...
Simon Day discovers how the voluntary carbon market allows both individuals and companies to offset their emissions at the same time as investing in native forest regeneration.When Celia Wade-Brown sold her first batch of carbon credits earned from the native forest on her Wairarapa farm, she had two customers: Z ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Keith Rankin. The conversation around the 2020 covid19 pandemic has been widely framed as ‘health versus the economy’. It has been quite political, with people leaning to the left emphasising ‘health’, and people leaning to the right emphasising ‘the economy’. A couple of weeks ago ...
Sam Brooks pays tribute to Alex Rider, and the new TV series that (finally) captures the spirit of the books.“What if James Bond was a teenager?”The concept for Anthony Horowitz’s Alex Rider series is so simple but so brilliant. There’s a reason why the franchise has managed to sustain 12 ...
Analysis - The PM resists pressure to move immediately to level 1, Winston Peters' tactics play into the hands of the Opposition and the government at last works out a commercial rent solution, writes Peter Wilson. ...
Source: Council on Hemispheric Affairs – Analysis-Reportage By COHAFrom Washington DC Federal charges against the four protectors of the Venezuelan Embassy, who defended the building in Washington DC against violent opposition crowds for several weeks between April 10 and May 16 of 2019, were completely dropped in a case that ...
Source: Council on Hemispheric Affairs – Analysis-Reportage By COHA Editorial TeamFrom Washington DC The Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) joins the Black Alliance for Peace[1] and other pro-democracy organizations throughout the world in calling for the United Nations to address the systemic violations of human rights by the police and ...
Being shot by police had a profound, transformational effect on Rob Mokaraka’s life in more ways than you’d expect. A new documentary, airing on Māori TV at 7.30pm on Sunday, explores the work he’s done to heal his own mind and to ensure nobody has to go through the same ...
Human rights watchdog TAPOL has condemned the demand by Indonesian prosecutors seeking 17 and five years imprisonment for West Papuan activists Buchtar Tabuni and Irwanus Uropmabin. On June 2, the Jayapura District Prosecutor’s Office issued 33 pages containing charges against the defendant Irwanus Uropmabin. In the document, the Public Prosecutor ...
The arrival of Dan Carter is far from the first time the ever-struggling Auckland team has hoped to turn around its fortunes with a star signing, writes Jamie Wall.New Zealand rugby Twitter is a generally desolate place, especially lately given that there’s been nothing to talk about ever since the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Senior Lecturer in New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity US President Donald Trump delivered an address this week in which he threatened military action on the nation. Then he walked to the nearby St John’s Episcopal Church ...
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A zoo ?
Looks more like parliamentary question time to me !
Overheard outside the Baboon enclosure at Wellington Zoo;
“Eugh, what’s that thing dangling down between it’s legs?”
Overheard at Singapore Zoo;
“Ooh, look at that Chimpanzee carrying its baby on its back… just like a kangaroo!”
Anthropology FAIL
Anthropology?
I remember when cartoons were funny.
Anthropology?
zoology, perhaps?
‘interestingly’, the ‘thing’ hanging between the baboon’s legs was probably not its ‘thing’ but its scrotum – other apes are relatively modestly endowed compared to humans (gorillas are the size of a pencil, ‘hung like a gorilla’ is an insult in parts of africa) but have much larger testes. other apes also have bones in theirs. sorry, just thought you might be interested
Savage was that back in the 1970s when Bromhead was a leading cartoonist, a sexist bigoted one?
Bah, science fail for me…
Steve, the breadth of your knowledge for useless information is astounding
Nah Bromhead is about as funny as knee-surgery. I myself like Tom Scott. Have a read of ‘The Unauthorised Version – a Cartoon History of NZ.’
Sexism and bigotry can be very funny.
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Bob McCroskie: So you do not want to see smacking banned?
Helen Clark: Absolutely not, I think you are trying to defy human nature.
I don’t get it. Is that meant to be Clark giving Mallard a clip around the ear?
And why is that guy wearing Charlie Brown’s jersey?
Fister: There was a point to that comment? That is exactly what Helen said (and for that matter what the cartoon said).
Doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t be judged by the police and the judiciary for using excessive force. Removing s59 allowed that to happen for some of the really abusive parents who were hiding behind their interpretation of ‘reasonable’.
Fister:
Looked at that quote again. Looks like you only see what you want to see. Why didn’t you highlight the bit I did above?
You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists ?
I think I should be able to smack and kick my kids.
Also thump my wife if she gets lippy and doesn’t have my dinner on the table when I expect it.
And shoot my dog if it barks when it shouldn’t.
Does Aunty Helen smack the crap out of her Teddy Bears?
Exbrethren, is your real name Chris Farter? Pooh you stink, wipe it please.
How did that man ever work out the mechanics of breeding?
If I did that at the Wellington zoo I’d get thrown out by the speaker!
George, wooden leg would throw another hissy fit and peanuts would fly everywhere again.
a) children are not reasonable adults
b) children need protection and boundaries
c) children sometimes run wild and need forcible restraint and correction
labour’s solution to the above: create a police state and criminalize 90% of parents.
piss off noddy
ropata,
I think you may not have realised that when repeal of S59 legislation was passed over a year ago now, there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults… ie what most people would be comfortable calling a smack.
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
RedLogix, it’s probably because he believes 90% of parents hit their children with such force that it would not be described as ‘transitory an trifling’. If you believe that, you probably think children need a good hiding, and that this really is a police state. Maybe it’s just ill-informed hyperbole, but it is rather sickening.
Redlogix and Matt Pill – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics? It’s a bit like putting a band aid on a festering wound! At least we are GOLD MEDALISTS in infanticide due to the culturally sensitive pc crap adopted by an out of step government and disgraceful police force. Shame on Labour because the evidence is bloody sickening.
Every politician has blood on their insidious hands. The blood of slain vulnerable children, for example the Kahui Twins, etc…etc…. the list is endless!!!!!
The Kahui Twins – the list is endless…. That’s just one there mate. Endless would be lots more than that.
Can’t hit a man
Can’t hit a woman
Can’t hit an inanimate object and cause damage
Can’t hit a dog
Children? Yeah lets hit them.
I agreed with the repeal of s59 before it happened but now that I look back it seems a big mistake. It has caused a lot of damage to this government.It was the Greens that set it in motion –
Sue Bradford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed and I don’t think she really thought about all the blowback that a policy change like this might make.
Congratulations on that Sue. Now NZ is polarised into two extremist camps about this issue. Children are still getting thumped. Imbeciles like Simon Barnett and dad4justice are coming out of the woodwork telling people how its their right to beat the love of God into their children.
This looks like the issue that will push the public into the hands of Mr Key.
How many kids you got savage mongrel and the list , oh yes, CYFS helped murder Coral Burrows, how long ago was that retard savage git ? Have another drink Ruth !!
Dad4justice
Researchers have done a study of European nations and guess what, they found a direct correlation between nations that allowed physical correction and high violent death rates for children. Brutalising in the name of “correction” is a problem.
A recent police report indicated that a total of 4 (yes 4) new prosecutions had occurred within 6 months because of the bill. One was diverted, three remain to be resolved.
It is pretty obvious that the bill has nothing to do with our child mortality rate. If you want to do something about our child mortality rate support the Bill and don’t support the beating of kids …
D4J: “Redlogix – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics?”
No, not in the short term. This is a common misconception. The S59 repeal was an attempt to de-ligitimate violence in society, thereby making all forms of violence (including child abuse) less socially acceptable; and to provide certainty to those prosecuting child assaults, so they can do so without fear that the defendants will mount a spurious defence based on the Timaru Riding Crop precedent (or others like it).
L
Get real Lew, forget the riding crop as scum use hammers to bash kids too death. Oh that’s right have a Hui and make an alibi.
This country doesn’t care about our children and it’s beastly that we don’t respect our most valuable assets.Save the snails and whales but forget the kids !!!!
Proud to be kiwi – yeah right!
Now now dad4justice. No need to resort to silly name calling.
That’s two cases you have named now – hardly endless.
It was Steven Roger Williams that killed Coral Burrows, not CYFS.
You can’t go on blaming the government and government agencies for the acts of others dad4justice. Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?
Savage: I think you’ve hit on something here, but haven’t quite got the emphasis right. I agree with your analysis that the bill has polarised the electorate and given undue credence to D4J and associated nutters, but it’s not Sue Bradford’s job to run damage control for the government over her own private member’s bill. As far as she’s concerned, members (or parties) voted for or against it of their own free will, and good on them for supporting it.
Labour are the ones in the gun here, for adopting this bill in apparent contravention of their own leader’s statement, for whipping their members when other parties allowed a party vote, and especially for failing to play the symbolic issues at stake here properly – allowing the debate to be framed as `criminalising good parents’ rather than `protecting the most vulnerable members of society’.
So while I believe it’s good law and will remain materially unimpeded for the future, referendum or not, in a sense the government deserves to lose this election for its handling of this issue; and National deserve to win it for Key’s masterful stroke of playing both sides – appeasing the smackers with good rhetoric and an attempted compromise, and supporting the bill anyway when the compromise was spurned.
L
D4J: But the fact remains that the authorities were reluctant to prosecute child assaults by parents because the Timaru Riding Crop case could be used as a defence (and was used, quite effectively, to gain acquittal in a number of cases). This means that many potentially winnable child abuse cases weren’t even brought to trial because the police didn’t want to risk scarce resources, money and public goodwill on losing cases.
Is that good? Isn’t it good that police can now bring all winnable child abuse cases to trial without fear of losing due to precedent?
L
“Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?”
Several Christchurch judges would disagree with your mental frothings you cowardly creep. Have another stiff one Ruth red face.
Lew – proud of our child abuse stats are you? Good on ya mate give yourself a whipping with a riding crop.
D4J: It’s just pointless trying to discuss anything with you, but then, I ought to know that by now. Speaking of frothing, you’ve been doing a lot of it lately, even by your own foamy standards.
Say it, don’t spray it.
L
Lew
you might be interested at some stage that the debate still goes on in other countries as I expect it will in NZ.
I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.
A cowardly creep am I? I take that as a compliment from a keyboard tough-guy such as yourself dad4justice.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
I don’t really see why you are so upset. If you told me a little bit about yourself and your situation then I might have some sympathy.
And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.
HS: “I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.”
I entirely agree. The trouble is that their causes tend to be polarised by the extremists on either side, and the symbolic issues take precedence over the practical issues to the point where people lose sight of what should be done because they’re too busy taking up a place in one trench or the other.
Edit: “And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.”
How can it be proved if it’s not given a chance? D4J is arguing it shouldn’t be given a chance. Whether passed or not, this would always have been a case of one side arguing `oh, if we’d just done it my way things would have been fine’. Any discussion of the matter on these grounds is simply getting foamy about a counterfactual – not very productive in either case.
L
I help many parents within the judicial system and I detest child abuse in ANY shape or form.
Must cook tea for my daughter.
Goodbye!
Never cook when you are angry dad4justice – your meal will turn out very bitter.
Savage: Sounds like your advice could be shortened to `never cook’ in this case.
L
Can’t blame d4j too much — the Standard and others repeatedly (and dishonestly) use silly hyperbole on this issue. FWIW the cartoon ironically illustrates some things that Kiro, Bradford and co. fail to recognise: that children can be naughty monkeys. But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.
[lprent: Read the Rules. Address it to a person, not to the machine, because programs don’t have opinions (as you should know, your site uses the same one). There are about 14 post writers and innumerable commentators here – address whoever you want to disagree with. The posters here would have problems agreeing on all topics. ]
Sorry Savage Ruth – I couldn’t resist one more dig. If you think that some anonymous internet person can make me angry then you don’t know much about me. Must go, fish pie and Monkeys brains for tea. Haha 😉
ropata: “But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.”
They presume no such thing. They simply believe that children – like all other human beings – should not be subject to systematised assault, ever, for any reason; guilty, innocent or otherwise.
L
Ropata
You forget it is Sue Bradfords bill not Labour’s – Helen Clark called it right first time with her comment as above from lprent.
heck I suppose beasts dine everynight on hot tongue and cold shoulder
I see ropata eventually returns; but noteably fails to answer the very simple question I asked him.
I have to conclude that he does not want to answer it.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
Contrary to what people imagine, laws do not stop crime. The only thing that stops crime is when people are too ashamed by their own consciences to commit the act.
The purpose of the law is two-fold. One is to punish and deter, but more importantly, it serves to set boundaries and standards..
Who do I think of Michael Cullen and Trevor Mallard when I look that cartoon??
Laws are big clumsy things that will only on occasion be of use to a child in an abusive home.
The bill was introduced with good intentions but has been hijacked by rightist idealogues, pro-family nut-jobs, scaremongering newspaper editors and rabid talkback hosts.
Violence against anyone is a bad thing. The use of force in parenting is a shortcut remedy to poor parenting. If mutual respect is there between parent and child then there will be no need for smacking. How do teachers cope with over thirty children in a class with no option of violence against the students?
“The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.”
David Friedman
Lew, Didn’t National also whip it’s MP’s after ‘the amendment that didn’t change anything’ was added? But like you say the point of this debate is symbolic. The substantive debate is over, the anti smackers won and the law won’t be changed.
The whole saga has been bad for Labour, the Greens, and the left in general, but if wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s all very well being evenhanded but when all’s said and done, the Nat’s know it’s a good law, they voted for it, and like the Civil Unions or any of the other base enragers, they have no intention of changing it. Partly because there would be an equally damaging backlash against them if they did, from the other direction.
The Nat’s followers and surrogates (but not so much the Party itself) are happy ranting about these things because they are easy propaganda points that keep a small sector energised. But that’s the only point of the exercise, and they’ll keep at it for years.
It’s akin to the religious right in the States on abortion. Talk, talk, talk, collect bucketloads of money and campaign assistance but for gawds sake never seriously challenge the legislation. ‘Cause then you lose the benefit of the propaganda. Which is money and a cheap stick to beat your opponents with. Symbolically of course.
Essentially they are encouraging the anger of a segment of the population, but they have no plans to calm then down by addressing their complaints. It’s pretty shitty stuff in view. But I don’t know how the LP or the Greens can combat it.
They don’t combat it. They just do some thinking before enacting legislation that might be turned into an almighty weapon to lever them out of government.
Redlogix:
I think you may not have realised that … there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults
Is that so? In that case what was wrong with Chester Borrows’ amendment?
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
My ‘purpose’ is concern for the welfare of children and families, and the potential for abuse by government agencies.
Mathew Pilot corrected me above, I should have used the words “tifling and transitory”… which still to my mind defines ‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’. Does this exemption put your mind at rest? And if not, why not?
All laws have the potential to be abused by govt agencies. Do you propose getting rid of all of them for this reason? I didn’t think so. If a govt or it’s agents misuses the powers we give them, then that is a political problem entirely separate from the question of child abuse.
lprent: You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists?
Oooh nasty! All I did was point out Clarke’s volte-face on the issue.
By the way, the answer to your question is, of course, “Mu”. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/mu.html
Fister: Don’t avoid it – there was no volte-face. You just didn’t bother to read the whole quotation. Read it again. This time ask yourself what the difference is between assault and discipline.
Then you may (but I am always an optimist) actually understand where she was drawing the distinction between Beating and smacking.
Then attempt to understand the changes to the Act. The police still have the discretion to decide which they consider constitutes an assault.
The only difference is that the judges can’t be stymied by parents that consider beating a child with a riding crop, a lump of timber, fists, etc as being ‘reasonable’.
I don’t think that any of the ones I listed are. Do you? Where would you draw the line? Define your ‘mu’ – don’t just use it to avoid defining what you consider is reasonable.
BTW: I started in the anti-s59 reform side. I didn’t see why the bill was required (I was a shit of a kid myself). The opponents of s59 reform convinced me otherwise. What some considered as reasonable in the way that they raised their kids appalled me. The legal situation got interesting after I read some of the judgments where s59 was raised as a defense made me realize how daft the old law was. It came down to deciding what is ‘reasonable’. The short answer is that it wasn’t definable without listing all of the limits. It is simpler to let the police decide as they are closest to the coalface.
Indeed Lynn, the politicized police and the dangerous CYFS idiots are working at the coalface in the Aunty Helen mine of corruption. Arrest that father,destroy family loyalties because they’re so hard to control said H2, go girls go!!!
PB
“And why is that guy wearing Charlie Brown’s jersey?”
lol
‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’
How many is a few?
How big is the red mark allowed to be?
How soon after correction is the red mark measured?
How soon after correction is bruising checked?
Define a bruise, how small can the blue patch be before it’s no longer a bruise?
This article in the Press cleared up a lot of misconceptions — The Standard should blog it!
Despite what people think, New Zealand *does* let parents smack their children in four defined circumstances, writes JOHN CALDWELL.
Certainly the use of “reasonable force”, including “smacking”, is now prohibited for the specific purpose of “correction” – a concept which had never been crystalline in its clarity. However, strikingly, the use of “reasonable” parental force against a child, the age of whom is left undefined, was declared to be permissible in four new circumstances.
These circumstances were (a) preventing or minimising harm to the child or another person; or (b) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in conduct that amounted to a criminal offence; or (c) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in offensive or disruptive behaviour; or (d) performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting.