‘interestingly’, the ‘thing’ hanging between the baboon’s legs was probably not its ‘thing’ but its scrotum – other apes are relatively modestly endowed compared to humans (gorillas are the size of a pencil, ‘hung like a gorilla’ is an insult in parts of africa) but have much larger testes. other apes also have bones in theirs. sorry, just thought you might be interested
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Bob McCroskie: So you do not want to see smacking banned?
Helen Clark:Absolutely not, I think you are trying to defy human nature.
Fister: There was a point to that comment? That is exactly what Helen said (and for that matter what the cartoon said).
Doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t be judged by the police and the judiciary for using excessive force. Removing s59 allowed that to happen for some of the really abusive parents who were hiding behind their interpretation of ‘reasonable’.
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Looked at that quote again. Looks like you only see what you want to see. Why didn’t you highlight the bit I did above?
You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists ?
a) children are not reasonable adults
b) children need protection and boundaries
c) children sometimes run wild and need forcible restraint and correction
labour’s solution to the above: create a police state and criminalize 90% of parents.
I think you may not have realised that when repeal of S59 legislation was passed over a year ago now, there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults… ie what most people would be comfortable calling a smack.
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
RedLogix, it’s probably because he believes 90% of parents hit their children with such force that it would not be described as ‘transitory an trifling’. If you believe that, you probably think children need a good hiding, and that this really is a police state. Maybe it’s just ill-informed hyperbole, but it is rather sickening.
Redlogix and Matt Pill – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics? It’s a bit like putting a band aid on a festering wound! At least we are GOLD MEDALISTS in infanticide due to the culturally sensitive pc crap adopted by an out of step government and disgraceful police force. Shame on Labour because the evidence is bloody sickening.
Every politician has blood on their insidious hands. The blood of slain vulnerable children, for example the Kahui Twins, etc…etc…. the list is endless!!!!!
The Kahui Twins – the list is endless…. That’s just one there mate. Endless would be lots more than that.
Can’t hit a man
Can’t hit a woman
Can’t hit an inanimate object and cause damage
Can’t hit a dog
Children? Yeah lets hit them.
I agreed with the repeal of s59 before it happened but now that I look back it seems a big mistake. It has caused a lot of damage to this government.It was the Greens that set it in motion –
Sue Bradford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed and I don’t think she really thought about all the blowback that a policy change like this might make.
Congratulations on that Sue. Now NZ is polarised into two extremist camps about this issue. Children are still getting thumped. Imbeciles like Simon Barnett and dad4justice are coming out of the woodwork telling people how its their right to beat the love of God into their children.
This looks like the issue that will push the public into the hands of Mr Key.
How many kids you got savage mongrel and the list , oh yes, CYFS helped murder Coral Burrows, how long ago was that retard savage git ? Have another drink Ruth !!
Researchers have done a study of European nations and guess what, they found a direct correlation between nations that allowed physical correction and high violent death rates for children. Brutalising in the name of “correction” is a problem.
A recent police report indicated that a total of 4 (yes 4) new prosecutions had occurred within 6 months because of the bill. One was diverted, three remain to be resolved.
It is pretty obvious that the bill has nothing to do with our child mortality rate. If you want to do something about our child mortality rate support the Bill and don’t support the beating of kids …
D4J: “Redlogix – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics?”
No, not in the short term. This is a common misconception. The S59 repeal was an attempt to de-ligitimate violence in society, thereby making all forms of violence (including child abuse) less socially acceptable; and to provide certainty to those prosecuting child assaults, so they can do so without fear that the defendants will mount a spurious defence based on the Timaru Riding Crop precedent (or others like it).
Get real Lew, forget the riding crop as scum use hammers to bash kids too death. Oh that’s right have a Hui and make an alibi.
This country doesn’t care about our children and it’s beastly that we don’t respect our most valuable assets.Save the snails and whales but forget the kids !!!!
Now now dad4justice. No need to resort to silly name calling.
That’s two cases you have named now – hardly endless.
It was Steven Roger Williams that killed Coral Burrows, not CYFS.
You can’t go on blaming the government and government agencies for the acts of others dad4justice. Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?
Savage: I think you’ve hit on something here, but haven’t quite got the emphasis right. I agree with your analysis that the bill has polarised the electorate and given undue credence to D4J and associated nutters, but it’s not Sue Bradford’s job to run damage control for the government over her own private member’s bill. As far as she’s concerned, members (or parties) voted for or against it of their own free will, and good on them for supporting it.
Labour are the ones in the gun here, for adopting this bill in apparent contravention of their own leader’s statement, for whipping their members when other parties allowed a party vote, and especially for failing to play the symbolic issues at stake here properly – allowing the debate to be framed as `criminalising good parents’ rather than `protecting the most vulnerable members of society’.
So while I believe it’s good law and will remain materially unimpeded for the future, referendum or not, in a sense the government deserves to lose this election for its handling of this issue; and National deserve to win it for Key’s masterful stroke of playing both sides – appeasing the smackers with good rhetoric and an attempted compromise, and supporting the bill anyway when the compromise was spurned.
D4J: But the fact remains that the authorities were reluctant to prosecute child assaults by parents because the Timaru Riding Crop case could be used as a defence (and was used, quite effectively, to gain acquittal in a number of cases). This means that many potentially winnable child abuse cases weren’t even brought to trial because the police didn’t want to risk scarce resources, money and public goodwill on losing cases.
Is that good? Isn’t it good that police can now bring all winnable child abuse cases to trial without fear of losing due to precedent?
D4J: It’s just pointless trying to discuss anything with you, but then, I ought to know that by now. Speaking of frothing, you’ve been doing a lot of it lately, even by your own foamy standards.
A cowardly creep am I? I take that as a compliment from a keyboard tough-guy such as yourself dad4justice.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
I don’t really see why you are so upset. If you told me a little bit about yourself and your situation then I might have some sympathy.
And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.
HS: “I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.”
I entirely agree. The trouble is that their causes tend to be polarised by the extremists on either side, and the symbolic issues take precedence over the practical issues to the point where people lose sight of what should be done because they’re too busy taking up a place in one trench or the other.
Edit: “And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.”
How can it be proved if it’s not given a chance? D4J is arguing it shouldn’t be given a chance. Whether passed or not, this would always have been a case of one side arguing `oh, if we’d just done it my way things would have been fine’. Any discussion of the matter on these grounds is simply getting foamy about a counterfactual – not very productive in either case.
Can’t blame d4j too much — the Standard and others repeatedly (and dishonestly) use silly hyperbole on this issue. FWIW the cartoon ironically illustrates some things that Kiro, Bradford and co. fail to recognise: that children can be naughty monkeys. But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.
[lprent: Read the Rules. Address it to a person, not to the machine, because programs don’t have opinions (as you should know, your site uses the same one). There are about 14 post writers and innumerable commentators here – address whoever you want to disagree with. The posters here would have problems agreeing on all topics. ]
Sorry Savage Ruth – I couldn’t resist one more dig. If you think that some anonymous internet person can make me angry then you don’t know much about me. Must go, fish pie and Monkeys brains for tea. Haha 😉
ropata: “But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.”
They presume no such thing. They simply believe that children – like all other human beings – should not be subject to systematised assault, ever, for any reason; guilty, innocent or otherwise.
I see ropata eventually returns; but noteably fails to answer the very simple question I asked him.
I have to conclude that he does not want to answer it.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
Contrary to what people imagine, laws do not stop crime. The only thing that stops crime is when people are too ashamed by their own consciences to commit the act.
The purpose of the law is two-fold. One is to punish and deter, but more importantly, it serves to set boundaries and standards..
Laws are big clumsy things that will only on occasion be of use to a child in an abusive home.
The bill was introduced with good intentions but has been hijacked by rightist idealogues, pro-family nut-jobs, scaremongering newspaper editors and rabid talkback hosts.
Violence against anyone is a bad thing. The use of force in parenting is a shortcut remedy to poor parenting. If mutual respect is there between parent and child then there will be no need for smacking. How do teachers cope with over thirty children in a class with no option of violence against the students?
“The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.”
Lew, Didn’t National also whip it’s MP’s after ‘the amendment that didn’t change anything’ was added? But like you say the point of this debate is symbolic. The substantive debate is over, the anti smackers won and the law won’t be changed.
The whole saga has been bad for Labour, the Greens, and the left in general, but if wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s all very well being evenhanded but when all’s said and done, the Nat’s know it’s a good law, they voted for it, and like the Civil Unions or any of the other base enragers, they have no intention of changing it. Partly because there would be an equally damaging backlash against them if they did, from the other direction.
The Nat’s followers and surrogates (but not so much the Party itself) are happy ranting about these things because they are easy propaganda points that keep a small sector energised. But that’s the only point of the exercise, and they’ll keep at it for years.
It’s akin to the religious right in the States on abortion. Talk, talk, talk, collect bucketloads of money and campaign assistance but for gawds sake never seriously challenge the legislation. ‘Cause then you lose the benefit of the propaganda. Which is money and a cheap stick to beat your opponents with. Symbolically of course.
Essentially they are encouraging the anger of a segment of the population, but they have no plans to calm then down by addressing their complaints. It’s pretty shitty stuff in view. But I don’t know how the LP or the Greens can combat it.
They don’t combat it. They just do some thinking before enacting legislation that might be turned into an almighty weapon to lever them out of government.
Redlogix: I think you may not have realised that … there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults
Is that so? In that case what was wrong with Chester Borrows’ amendment?
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
My ‘purpose’ is concern for the welfare of children and families, and the potential for abuse by government agencies.
Mathew Pilot corrected me above, I should have used the words “tifling and transitory”… which still to my mind defines ‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’. Does this exemption put your mind at rest? And if not, why not?
All laws have the potential to be abused by govt agencies. Do you propose getting rid of all of them for this reason? I didn’t think so. If a govt or it’s agents misuses the powers we give them, then that is a political problem entirely separate from the question of child abuse.
Fister: Don’t avoid it – there was no volte-face. You just didn’t bother to read the whole quotation. Read it again. This time ask yourself what the difference is between assault and discipline.
Then you may (but I am always an optimist) actually understand where she was drawing the distinction between Beating and smacking.
Then attempt to understand the changes to the Act. The police still have the discretion to decide which they consider constitutes an assault.
The only difference is that the judges can’t be stymied by parents that consider beating a child with a riding crop, a lump of timber, fists, etc as being ‘reasonable’.
I don’t think that any of the ones I listed are. Do you? Where would you draw the line? Define your ‘mu’ – don’t just use it to avoid defining what you consider is reasonable.
BTW: I started in the anti-s59 reform side. I didn’t see why the bill was required (I was a shit of a kid myself). The opponents of s59 reform convinced me otherwise. What some considered as reasonable in the way that they raised their kids appalled me. The legal situation got interesting after I read some of the judgments where s59 was raised as a defense made me realize how daft the old law was. It came down to deciding what is ‘reasonable’. The short answer is that it wasn’t definable without listing all of the limits. It is simpler to let the police decide as they are closest to the coalface.
Indeed Lynn, the politicized police and the dangerous CYFS idiots are working at the coalface in the Aunty Helen mine of corruption. Arrest that father,destroy family loyalties because they’re so hard to control said H2, go girls go!!!
Despite what people think, New Zealand *does* let parents smack their children in four defined circumstances, writes JOHN CALDWELL.
Certainly the use of “reasonable force”, including “smacking”, is now prohibited for the specific purpose of “correction” – a concept which had never been crystalline in its clarity. However, strikingly, the use of “reasonable” parental force against a child, the age of whom is left undefined, was declared to be permissible in four new circumstances.
These circumstances were (a) preventing or minimising harm to the child or another person; or (b) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in conduct that amounted to a criminal offence; or (c) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in offensive or disruptive behaviour; or (d) performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting.
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Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
The commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the Battle of Ruapekapeka represents an opportunity for all New Zealanders to reflect on the role these conflicts have had in creating our modern nation, says Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Kiri Allan. “The Battle at Te Ruapekapeka Pā, which took ...
Babies born with tongue-tie will be assessed and treated consistently under new guidelines released by the Ministry of Health, Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Around 5% to 10% of babies are born with a tongue-tie, or ankyloglossia, in New Zealand each year. At least half can ...
The prisoner disorder event at Waikeria Prison is over, with all remaining prisoners now safely and securely detained, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says. The majority of those involved in the event are members of the Mongols and Comancheros. Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to ...
Travellers from the United Kingdom or the United States bound for New Zealand will be required to get a negative test result for COVID-19 before departing, and work is underway to extend the requirement to other long haul flights to New Zealand, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. “The new PCR test requirement, foreshadowed last ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has added her warm congratulations to the New Zealanders recognised for their contributions to their communities and the country in the New Year 2021 Honours List. “The past year has been one that few of us could have imagined. In spite of all the things that ...
Attorney-General and Minister for the Environment David Parker has congratulated two retired judges who have had their contributions to the country and their communities recognised in the New Year 2021 Honours list. The Hon Tony Randerson QC has been appointed a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit for ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the New Year’s Honours List 2021 highlights again the outstanding contribution made by Pacific people across Aotearoa. “We are acknowledging the work of 13 Pacific leaders in the New Year’s Honours, representing a number of sectors including health, education, community, sports, the ...
The Government’s investment in digital literacy training for seniors has led to more than 250 people participating so far, helping them stay connected. “COVID-19 has meant older New Zealanders are showing more interest in learning how to use technology like Zoom and Skype so they can to keep in touch ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nathan Bartlett, Associate Professor, School of Biomedical Sciences and Pharmacy, University of Newcastle Reports of about 30 deaths among elderly nursing home residents who received the Pfizer vaccine have made international headlines. With Australia’s Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) expected to approve the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Culum Brown, Professor, Macquarie University How do gills work? Tully, aged 7 Great question, Tully! Animals on land breathe air, which is made up of different gasses. Oxygen is one of these gases, and is made by plants (hug ...
Dairy prices increased by 3.9% across the board at the latest Fonterra global auction. The lift followed rises of 1.3% and 4.3% in the December auctions which took dairy prices to their highest level in 11 months, defying those analysts who believed Covid-19 had disrupted dairy markets. In the latest ...
America's Cup team American Magic has spoken publicly after their boat Patriot capsized when on its way to their first win of the Challenger Selection Series yesterday. Patriot dramatically capsized yesterday, becoming temporarily airborne before crashing back into the water and tipping. The boat, helmed by New Zealander Dean Barker, could not be ...
It’s a seemingly age old question: why do Auckland’s beaches become unswimmable after every single downpour? Stewart Sowman-Lund investigates.Ah, the beach. A staple of the New Zealand summer. Unless, of course, you’re based in Auckland and it’s raining. The start of 2021 has been a lot like every other New ...
We have opened a book, among members of the Point of Order team, on how long it will be before the PM offers to sort out the land dispute at Wellington’s Shelly Bay and (to win the double) how much the settlement will cost taxpayers. Just a few weeks ago ...
Breakfast TV news is back for 2021, and Tara Ward got up early to watch. “Thank god it’s almost Christmas,” John Campbell said during the opening minutes of Breakfast’s premiere episode of the year. “2021’s been rough so far. I’m buggered”. We’re all buggered, to be fair, but I’m worried that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Pearson, Professor of Journalism and Social Media, Griffith Centre for Social and Cultural Research, Griffith University, Griffith University The blame for the recent assault on the US Capitol and President Donald Trump’s broader dismantling of democratic institutions and norms can be ...
Despite a popular and unifying leader of the governing party, divisions both in policy and culture will test the progressive movement, writes Peter McKenzie.‘I think we’re confused.” Marlon Drake is an organiser for the Living Wage Movement. His job takes him all over Wellington, trying to convince businesses to increase ...
Covid-19 Recovery Minister Chris Hipkins says vaccinations should be available to the public by the middle of the year, but other countries are prioritised. ...
It’s as true now as it ever has been: nowhere else offers an education experience like that of Dunedin. But rather than resting on their laurels, the University of Otago and Otago Polytechnic have plans to make the city an even more inspiring place for students.From high in the summit ...
Haggis, neeps and tatties and whisky may not be a traditional spread for a summer gathering in NZ, but trust Auckland city councillor and Kiwi-Scot Cathy Casey on this one. Gie it laldy! Rule one: Hold it on (or near) January 25Robert Burns was born on January 25, 1759. Since the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Tuffley, Senior Lecturer in Applied Ethics & CyberSecurity, Griffith University It could be argued artificial intelligence (AI) is already the indispensable tool of the 21st century. From helping doctors diagnose and treat patients to rapidly advancing new drug discoveries, it’s our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Kenny, Professor, Australian Studies Institute, Australian National University Through recent natural disasters, global upheavals and a pandemic, Australia’s political centre has largely held. Australians may have disagreed at times, but they have also kept faith with governmental norms, eschewing the false ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Holly Seale, Associate professor, UNSW Health workers are at higher risk of COVID infection and illness. They can also act as extremely efficient transmitters of viruses to others in medical and aged care facilities. That’s why health workers have been prioritised to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jim Orchard, Adjunct Lecturer, Monash University Last week, somewhat overshadowed by the events in Washington, the Democrats took control of the US Senate. The Democrats now hold a small majority in both the House and the Senate until 2022, giving President-elect Joe ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mittul Vahanvati, Lecturer, School of Global, Urban and Social Studies, RMIT University Heatwaves, floods, bushfires: disaster season is upon us again. We can’t prevent hazards or climate change-related extreme weather events but we can prepare for them — not just as individuals ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mandie Shean, Lecturer, School of Education, Edith Cowan University Starting school is an important event for children and a positive experience can set the tone for the rest of their school experience. Some children are excited to attend school for the first ...
Some families in emergency housing are reporting their children are becoming emotionally distressed because of their living conditions. Demand for emergency accommodation has escalated this past year with the number of emergency housing grants increasing by half. Data showed nearly 10,000 people were given an Emergency Housing Special Needs Grant between ...
Summer reissue: Michèle A’Court, Alex Casey and Leonie Hayden are back for a second season of On the Rag, and where better to start than with the mysterious, exhausting world of wellness?First published June 23, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is ...
With few Covid-19 infections and negiligible natural immunity, New Zealand faces being a victim of its own success when it is left till last to get the vaccines, argues Dr Parmjeet Parmar. ...
Steve Braunias reports on a literary cancelling. The Corrections department has refused to allow Jared Savage's best-selling book Gangland inside prison on the grounds that it "promotes violence and drug use". An inmate at Otago Corrections Facility in Dunedin was sent a copy of the book – but it was ...
New data from the CTU’s annual work life survey shows a snapshot of working people’s experiences and outlook heading out of 2020 and into the new year. Concerningly 42% of respondents cite workplace bullying as an issue in their workplace - a number ...
An international player, selector and self-confessed cricket stats nerd, Penny Kinsella has now played a hand in recording the rich history of the women's game in New Zealand. Penny Kinsella’s cricketing career was perched on the cusp of change for the White Ferns. “My first tour to Australia, we ...
The dramatic capsize of American Magic brought out the best in the America's Cup sailing fraternity. But, Suzanne McFadden asks, what does it mean to the crippled New York Yacht Club campaign and to the Prada Cup? It was a scene as unreal as it was calamitous. Right at the moment the ...
The current number of members of parliament is starting to get too low for the job we expect them to do, argues Alex Braae. As a general rule, with the possible exception of their families, nobody likes backbench MPs. But it’s nevertheless time we accepted that parliament should have more of ...
The experience in the Brazilian city of Manaus reveals how mistaken, and dangerous, the herd-immunity-by-infection theory really is. As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop ...
As New Zealand gears up to fight climate change, experts warn that we need to actually reduce emissions, not just plant trees to offset our greenhouse gases. ...
A nationwide poll has found majority support for the government to continue to closely monitor abortions in New Zealand and the reasons for it, despite the Ministry of Health recently suggesting that there is not a use for collecting much of this information. ...
The out-of-control growth in gangs, gun crime, and violent gang activity is exposing our communities to dangerous levels of violence that will inevitably end in tragedy, says Sensible Sentencing Trust. “The recent incidents of people being shot and ...
Successive governments have paid lip service to our productivity challenge but have failed to deliver. It's time to establish a Productivity Council charged with prioritising efforts. ...
Understanding the connection between chronic fatigue syndrome and ‘long Covid’ might be helpful in treating symptoms that doctors will find all too easy to dismiss.When people began to report signs of “long Covid”, characterised by a lack of full recovery from the virus and debilitating fatigue, I recognised their stories. ...
Nadine Anne Hura, who never considered herself an artist, reflects on what art and making has taught her.I couldn’t clean or cook or wash the clothes, but I could sew. That’s a lie, I’m a terrible sewer, but I left work early to fossick around in the $1 bin of ...
Summer reissue: In the final episode of this season of Bad News, Alice is joined by Billy T award winner Kura Forrester to look at how well we’re honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi in 2020.First published September 3, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The ...
Lucy Revill’s The Residents is a blog about daily life in Wellington that has morphed into a stylish, low-key coffee-table book featuring interviews and photographic portraits of 38 Wellingtonians. In this extract, Revill profiles Eboni Waitere, owner and executive director of Huia Publishers. The Residents features names like Monique Fiso ...
Pacific Media Watch correspondent The pro-independence conflict in West Papua with a missionary plane reportedly being shot down at Intan Jaya has stirred contrasting responses from the TNI/POLRI state sources, church leaders and an independence leader. A shooting caused a plane to catch fire on 6 January 2021 in the ...
“Last year ACT warned that rewarding protestors at Ihumātao with taxpayer money would promote further squatting. We just didn’t think it would happen as quickly as it is in Shelly Bay” says ACT Leader David Seymour. “The prosperity of all ...
Our kindly PM registered her return to work as leader of the nation with yet another statement on the Beehive website, the second in two days (following her appointment of Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council on Wednesday). It’s great to know we don’t have to check with ...
A Pūhoi pub is refusing to remove a piece of memorabilia bearing the n-word from its walls. Dr Lachy Paterson looks at the history of the word here, and New Zealand’s complicity in Britain’s shameful slave trading past.Content warning: This article contains racist language and images.On a pub wall in ...
Supermarket shoppers looking for citrus are seeing a sour trend at the moment – some stores are entirely tapped out of lemons. But why? Batches of homemade lemonade will be taking a hit this summer, with life not giving New Zealand shoppers lemons. Prices are high at supermarkets and grocers that ...
You’re born either a cheery soul or a gloomy one, reckons Linda Burgess – but what happens when gene pools from opposite ends of the spectrum collide?In our shoeboxes of photos that we have to sort out before we die or get demented – because who IS that kid on ...
Summer reissue: Prisoner voting rights are something that few in government seem particularly motivated to do anything about. Could a catchy charity single help draw attention to the issue?First published September 1, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is funded by its ...
Hundreds more Cook Islanders are expected to begin criss-crossing the Pacific, Air NZ will triple the number of flights to Rarotonga next week, and about 300 managed isolation places will be freed up for Kiwis returning from other parts of the world. When Thomas Tarurongo Wynne took a job in Wellington at ...
SPECIAL REPORT:By Ena Manuireva in Auckland It seems a long time ago – some 124 days – since Mā’ohi Nui deplored its first covid-19 related deaths of an elderly woman on 11 September 2020 followed by her husband just hours later, both over the age of 80. The local ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Turnbull, Postdoctoral research associate, UNSW A global coalition of more than 50 countries have this week pledged to protect over 30% of the planet’s lands and seas by the end of this decade. Their reasoning is clear: we need greater protection ...
The Reserve Bank Governor’s apology and claim he will ‘own the issue’ is laughable given the lack of answers and timing of its release. Jordan Williams, a spokesman for the Taxpayers’ Union said: “It’s been five days since they came clean, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olga Kokshagina, Researcher – Innovation & Entrepreneurship, RMIT University Are too many online meetings and notifications getting you down? Online communication tools – from email to virtual chat and video-conferencing – have transformed the way we work. In many respects they’ve made ...
The Reserve Bank acknowledges information about some of its stakeholders may have been breached in a malicious data hack. The Governor of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has commissioned an independent inquiry into how stakeholders' information was compromised when hackers breached a file sharing service used by the bank. “We ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitlin Syme, PhD in Vertebrate Palaeontology, The University of Queensland This story contains spoilers for Ammonite Palaeontologist Mary Anning is known for discovering a multitude of Jurassic fossils from Lyme Regis on England’s Dorset Coast from the age of ten in 1809. ...
A tribute to the sitcoms of old? In the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Yup. Sam Brooks reviews the audacious WandaVision.Nothing sends a chill up my spine like the phrase “Marvel Cinematic Universe”. Since launching in 2008 with Iron Man, the MCU has become a shambling behemoth, with over 23 films (not ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University The alt-right, QAnon, paramilitary and Donald Trump-supporting mob that stormed the US Capitol on January 6 claimed they were only doing what the so-called “founding fathers” of the US had done in ...
The Point of Order Ministerial Workload Watchdog and our ever-vigilant Trough Monitor were both triggered yesterday by an item of news from the office of Conservation Minister Kititapu Allan. The minister was drawing attention to new opportunities to dip into the Jobs for Nature programme (and her statement was the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andreas Kupz, Senior Research Fellow, James Cook University In July 1921, a French infant became the first person to receive an experimental vaccine against tuberculosis (TB), after the mother had died from the disease. The vaccine, known as Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG), is ...
The first Friday Poem for 2021 is by Wellington poet Rebecca Hawkes.While you were partying I studied the bladeI your ever-loving edgelord God-emperorof the bot army & bitcoin mine subsistingon an IV drip of gamer girl bathwaterfinally my lonelinessis your responsibility………. you seeI need a girlfriend assigned to me by the ...
The arming of police officers in Canterbury was inevitable with the growing numbers and brazenness of the gangs across the country – this should be a permanent step, says Sensible Sentencing Trust. “It is unfortunate that we have come to the point ...
Celebrations in Aotearoa New Zealand to mark the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) will begin on Thursday 21 January with ICAN Aotearoa New Zealand’s Wellington and online event, and continue on Friday ...
Hardly anyone is using their Covid Tracer app. Something needs to change.As the mercury approaches 30°C in Aotearoa, there is a good deal of slipping and slopping, but, let’s face it, piss-all scanning. As few as around 500,000 QR codes are being scanned by users of the NZ Covid Tracer ...
On the East Coast, a group of Māori-owned enterprises is innovating to create new revenue streams while doing what they love.New Zealand’s remote and sparsely populated regions are typically not the best places to create thriving brick-and-mortar businesses. In small communities miles away from any major centres, there are so ...
As we reach the height of summer, it’s not too late to do a safety check on your gas bottle. The Environmental Protection Authority’s Safer Homes programme has some tips and tricks to keep in mind before you fire up the grill. "If you’ve ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1Troy: The Siege of Troy Retold by Stephen Fry (Michael Joseph, $37)If you’re in any way unsure about ...
“We may as well knock on the gang headquarters around this country and tell them we all give up," says Darroch Ball co-leader of Sensible Sentencing Trust. “It is simply outrageous that violent offender, James Tuwhangai, has been released from ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Ireland, Israel, and Lebanon. Chart by Keith Rankin. The countries with the most recent large outbreaks of Covid19 are those with large numbers of recent recorded cases, but yet to record the deaths that most likely will result. In this camp, this time, are Ireland, Israel ...
RuPaul is in Aotearoa, kicking back in managed isolation to await the filming of an Australasian version of her hugely popular reality show Drag Race. But not everyone is happy about, explains Eli Matthewson. The world’s most famous drag queen, RuPaul, is in New Zealand, the government confirmed earlier this week ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Melleuish, Professor, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong What can we make of Clive Palmer? This week, he announced his United Australia Party (UAP) would not contest the upcoming West Australian state election on March 13. After a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gisela Kaplan, Emeritus Professor in Animal Behaviour, University of New England Have you ever seenmagpies play-fighting with one another, or rolling around in high spirits? Or an apostlebird running at full speed with a stick in its beak, chased by a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Jackson, Program Director, Centre for Policy Development, and Associate Professor of Education, Mitchell Institute, Victoria University Childcare centres across Australia are suffering staff shortages, which have been exacerbated by the COVID crisis. Many childcare workers across Australia left when parents started ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Barrett, Senior Lecturer in Taxation, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington Rhetoric plays an important role in tax debate and therefore tax policy. If your side manages to gain traction in the public imagination with labels such as “death ...
A zoo ?
Looks more like parliamentary question time to me !
Overheard outside the Baboon enclosure at Wellington Zoo;
“Eugh, what’s that thing dangling down between it’s legs?”
Overheard at Singapore Zoo;
“Ooh, look at that Chimpanzee carrying its baby on its back… just like a kangaroo!”
Anthropology FAIL
Anthropology?
I remember when cartoons were funny.
Anthropology?
zoology, perhaps?
‘interestingly’, the ‘thing’ hanging between the baboon’s legs was probably not its ‘thing’ but its scrotum – other apes are relatively modestly endowed compared to humans (gorillas are the size of a pencil, ‘hung like a gorilla’ is an insult in parts of africa) but have much larger testes. other apes also have bones in theirs. sorry, just thought you might be interested
Savage was that back in the 1970s when Bromhead was a leading cartoonist, a sexist bigoted one?
Bah, science fail for me…
Steve, the breadth of your knowledge for useless information is astounding
Nah Bromhead is about as funny as knee-surgery. I myself like Tom Scott. Have a read of ‘The Unauthorised Version – a Cartoon History of NZ.’
Sexism and bigotry can be very funny.
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Bob McCroskie: So you do not want to see smacking banned?
Helen Clark: Absolutely not, I think you are trying to defy human nature.
I don’t get it. Is that meant to be Clark giving Mallard a clip around the ear?
And why is that guy wearing Charlie Brown’s jersey?
Fister: There was a point to that comment? That is exactly what Helen said (and for that matter what the cartoon said).
Doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t be judged by the police and the judiciary for using excessive force. Removing s59 allowed that to happen for some of the really abusive parents who were hiding behind their interpretation of ‘reasonable’.
Fister:
Looked at that quote again. Looks like you only see what you want to see. Why didn’t you highlight the bit I did above?
You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists ?
I think I should be able to smack and kick my kids.
Also thump my wife if she gets lippy and doesn’t have my dinner on the table when I expect it.
And shoot my dog if it barks when it shouldn’t.
Does Aunty Helen smack the crap out of her Teddy Bears?
Exbrethren, is your real name Chris Farter? Pooh you stink, wipe it please.
How did that man ever work out the mechanics of breeding?
If I did that at the Wellington zoo I’d get thrown out by the speaker!
George, wooden leg would throw another hissy fit and peanuts would fly everywhere again.
a) children are not reasonable adults
b) children need protection and boundaries
c) children sometimes run wild and need forcible restraint and correction
labour’s solution to the above: create a police state and criminalize 90% of parents.
piss off noddy
ropata,
I think you may not have realised that when repeal of S59 legislation was passed over a year ago now, there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults… ie what most people would be comfortable calling a smack.
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
RedLogix, it’s probably because he believes 90% of parents hit their children with such force that it would not be described as ‘transitory an trifling’. If you believe that, you probably think children need a good hiding, and that this really is a police state. Maybe it’s just ill-informed hyperbole, but it is rather sickening.
Redlogix and Matt Pill – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics? It’s a bit like putting a band aid on a festering wound! At least we are GOLD MEDALISTS in infanticide due to the culturally sensitive pc crap adopted by an out of step government and disgraceful police force. Shame on Labour because the evidence is bloody sickening.
Every politician has blood on their insidious hands. The blood of slain vulnerable children, for example the Kahui Twins, etc…etc…. the list is endless!!!!!
The Kahui Twins – the list is endless…. That’s just one there mate. Endless would be lots more than that.
Can’t hit a man
Can’t hit a woman
Can’t hit an inanimate object and cause damage
Can’t hit a dog
Children? Yeah lets hit them.
I agreed with the repeal of s59 before it happened but now that I look back it seems a big mistake. It has caused a lot of damage to this government.It was the Greens that set it in motion –
Sue Bradford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed and I don’t think she really thought about all the blowback that a policy change like this might make.
Congratulations on that Sue. Now NZ is polarised into two extremist camps about this issue. Children are still getting thumped. Imbeciles like Simon Barnett and dad4justice are coming out of the woodwork telling people how its their right to beat the love of God into their children.
This looks like the issue that will push the public into the hands of Mr Key.
How many kids you got savage mongrel and the list , oh yes, CYFS helped murder Coral Burrows, how long ago was that retard savage git ? Have another drink Ruth !!
Dad4justice
Researchers have done a study of European nations and guess what, they found a direct correlation between nations that allowed physical correction and high violent death rates for children. Brutalising in the name of “correction” is a problem.
A recent police report indicated that a total of 4 (yes 4) new prosecutions had occurred within 6 months because of the bill. One was diverted, three remain to be resolved.
It is pretty obvious that the bill has nothing to do with our child mortality rate. If you want to do something about our child mortality rate support the Bill and don’t support the beating of kids …
D4J: “Redlogix – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics?”
No, not in the short term. This is a common misconception. The S59 repeal was an attempt to de-ligitimate violence in society, thereby making all forms of violence (including child abuse) less socially acceptable; and to provide certainty to those prosecuting child assaults, so they can do so without fear that the defendants will mount a spurious defence based on the Timaru Riding Crop precedent (or others like it).
L
Get real Lew, forget the riding crop as scum use hammers to bash kids too death. Oh that’s right have a Hui and make an alibi.
This country doesn’t care about our children and it’s beastly that we don’t respect our most valuable assets.Save the snails and whales but forget the kids !!!!
Proud to be kiwi – yeah right!
Now now dad4justice. No need to resort to silly name calling.
That’s two cases you have named now – hardly endless.
It was Steven Roger Williams that killed Coral Burrows, not CYFS.
You can’t go on blaming the government and government agencies for the acts of others dad4justice. Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?
Savage: I think you’ve hit on something here, but haven’t quite got the emphasis right. I agree with your analysis that the bill has polarised the electorate and given undue credence to D4J and associated nutters, but it’s not Sue Bradford’s job to run damage control for the government over her own private member’s bill. As far as she’s concerned, members (or parties) voted for or against it of their own free will, and good on them for supporting it.
Labour are the ones in the gun here, for adopting this bill in apparent contravention of their own leader’s statement, for whipping their members when other parties allowed a party vote, and especially for failing to play the symbolic issues at stake here properly – allowing the debate to be framed as `criminalising good parents’ rather than `protecting the most vulnerable members of society’.
So while I believe it’s good law and will remain materially unimpeded for the future, referendum or not, in a sense the government deserves to lose this election for its handling of this issue; and National deserve to win it for Key’s masterful stroke of playing both sides – appeasing the smackers with good rhetoric and an attempted compromise, and supporting the bill anyway when the compromise was spurned.
L
D4J: But the fact remains that the authorities were reluctant to prosecute child assaults by parents because the Timaru Riding Crop case could be used as a defence (and was used, quite effectively, to gain acquittal in a number of cases). This means that many potentially winnable child abuse cases weren’t even brought to trial because the police didn’t want to risk scarce resources, money and public goodwill on losing cases.
Is that good? Isn’t it good that police can now bring all winnable child abuse cases to trial without fear of losing due to precedent?
L
“Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?”
Several Christchurch judges would disagree with your mental frothings you cowardly creep. Have another stiff one Ruth red face.
Lew – proud of our child abuse stats are you? Good on ya mate give yourself a whipping with a riding crop.
D4J: It’s just pointless trying to discuss anything with you, but then, I ought to know that by now. Speaking of frothing, you’ve been doing a lot of it lately, even by your own foamy standards.
Say it, don’t spray it.
L
Lew
you might be interested at some stage that the debate still goes on in other countries as I expect it will in NZ.
http://www.festivalofpolitics.co.uk/business/research/pdf_res_brief/sb02-102.pdf
I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.
A cowardly creep am I? I take that as a compliment from a keyboard tough-guy such as yourself dad4justice.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
I don’t really see why you are so upset. If you told me a little bit about yourself and your situation then I might have some sympathy.
And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.
HS: “I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.”
I entirely agree. The trouble is that their causes tend to be polarised by the extremists on either side, and the symbolic issues take precedence over the practical issues to the point where people lose sight of what should be done because they’re too busy taking up a place in one trench or the other.
Edit: “And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.”
How can it be proved if it’s not given a chance? D4J is arguing it shouldn’t be given a chance. Whether passed or not, this would always have been a case of one side arguing `oh, if we’d just done it my way things would have been fine’. Any discussion of the matter on these grounds is simply getting foamy about a counterfactual – not very productive in either case.
L
I help many parents within the judicial system and I detest child abuse in ANY shape or form.
Must cook tea for my daughter.
Goodbye!
Never cook when you are angry dad4justice – your meal will turn out very bitter.
Savage: Sounds like your advice could be shortened to `never cook’ in this case.
L
Can’t blame d4j too much — the Standard and others repeatedly (and dishonestly) use silly hyperbole on this issue. FWIW the cartoon ironically illustrates some things that Kiro, Bradford and co. fail to recognise: that children can be naughty monkeys. But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.
[lprent: Read the Rules. Address it to a person, not to the machine, because programs don’t have opinions (as you should know, your site uses the same one). There are about 14 post writers and innumerable commentators here – address whoever you want to disagree with. The posters here would have problems agreeing on all topics. ]
Sorry Savage Ruth – I couldn’t resist one more dig. If you think that some anonymous internet person can make me angry then you don’t know much about me. Must go, fish pie and Monkeys brains for tea. Haha 😉
ropata: “But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.”
They presume no such thing. They simply believe that children – like all other human beings – should not be subject to systematised assault, ever, for any reason; guilty, innocent or otherwise.
L
Ropata
You forget it is Sue Bradfords bill not Labour’s – Helen Clark called it right first time with her comment as above from lprent.
heck I suppose beasts dine everynight on hot tongue and cold shoulder
I see ropata eventually returns; but noteably fails to answer the very simple question I asked him.
I have to conclude that he does not want to answer it.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
Contrary to what people imagine, laws do not stop crime. The only thing that stops crime is when people are too ashamed by their own consciences to commit the act.
The purpose of the law is two-fold. One is to punish and deter, but more importantly, it serves to set boundaries and standards..
Who do I think of Michael Cullen and Trevor Mallard when I look that cartoon??
Laws are big clumsy things that will only on occasion be of use to a child in an abusive home.
The bill was introduced with good intentions but has been hijacked by rightist idealogues, pro-family nut-jobs, scaremongering newspaper editors and rabid talkback hosts.
Violence against anyone is a bad thing. The use of force in parenting is a shortcut remedy to poor parenting. If mutual respect is there between parent and child then there will be no need for smacking. How do teachers cope with over thirty children in a class with no option of violence against the students?
“The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.”
David Friedman
Lew, Didn’t National also whip it’s MP’s after ‘the amendment that didn’t change anything’ was added? But like you say the point of this debate is symbolic. The substantive debate is over, the anti smackers won and the law won’t be changed.
The whole saga has been bad for Labour, the Greens, and the left in general, but if wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s all very well being evenhanded but when all’s said and done, the Nat’s know it’s a good law, they voted for it, and like the Civil Unions or any of the other base enragers, they have no intention of changing it. Partly because there would be an equally damaging backlash against them if they did, from the other direction.
The Nat’s followers and surrogates (but not so much the Party itself) are happy ranting about these things because they are easy propaganda points that keep a small sector energised. But that’s the only point of the exercise, and they’ll keep at it for years.
It’s akin to the religious right in the States on abortion. Talk, talk, talk, collect bucketloads of money and campaign assistance but for gawds sake never seriously challenge the legislation. ‘Cause then you lose the benefit of the propaganda. Which is money and a cheap stick to beat your opponents with. Symbolically of course.
Essentially they are encouraging the anger of a segment of the population, but they have no plans to calm then down by addressing their complaints. It’s pretty shitty stuff in view. But I don’t know how the LP or the Greens can combat it.
They don’t combat it. They just do some thinking before enacting legislation that might be turned into an almighty weapon to lever them out of government.
Redlogix:
I think you may not have realised that … there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults
Is that so? In that case what was wrong with Chester Borrows’ amendment?
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
My ‘purpose’ is concern for the welfare of children and families, and the potential for abuse by government agencies.
Mathew Pilot corrected me above, I should have used the words “tifling and transitory”… which still to my mind defines ‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’. Does this exemption put your mind at rest? And if not, why not?
All laws have the potential to be abused by govt agencies. Do you propose getting rid of all of them for this reason? I didn’t think so. If a govt or it’s agents misuses the powers we give them, then that is a political problem entirely separate from the question of child abuse.
lprent: You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists?
Oooh nasty! All I did was point out Clarke’s volte-face on the issue.
By the way, the answer to your question is, of course, “Mu”. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/mu.html
Fister: Don’t avoid it – there was no volte-face. You just didn’t bother to read the whole quotation. Read it again. This time ask yourself what the difference is between assault and discipline.
Then you may (but I am always an optimist) actually understand where she was drawing the distinction between Beating and smacking.
Then attempt to understand the changes to the Act. The police still have the discretion to decide which they consider constitutes an assault.
The only difference is that the judges can’t be stymied by parents that consider beating a child with a riding crop, a lump of timber, fists, etc as being ‘reasonable’.
I don’t think that any of the ones I listed are. Do you? Where would you draw the line? Define your ‘mu’ – don’t just use it to avoid defining what you consider is reasonable.
BTW: I started in the anti-s59 reform side. I didn’t see why the bill was required (I was a shit of a kid myself). The opponents of s59 reform convinced me otherwise. What some considered as reasonable in the way that they raised their kids appalled me. The legal situation got interesting after I read some of the judgments where s59 was raised as a defense made me realize how daft the old law was. It came down to deciding what is ‘reasonable’. The short answer is that it wasn’t definable without listing all of the limits. It is simpler to let the police decide as they are closest to the coalface.
Indeed Lynn, the politicized police and the dangerous CYFS idiots are working at the coalface in the Aunty Helen mine of corruption. Arrest that father,destroy family loyalties because they’re so hard to control said H2, go girls go!!!
PB
“And why is that guy wearing Charlie Brown’s jersey?”
lol
‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’
How many is a few?
How big is the red mark allowed to be?
How soon after correction is the red mark measured?
How soon after correction is bruising checked?
Define a bruise, how small can the blue patch be before it’s no longer a bruise?
This article in the Press cleared up a lot of misconceptions — The Standard should blog it!
Despite what people think, New Zealand *does* let parents smack their children in four defined circumstances, writes JOHN CALDWELL.
Certainly the use of “reasonable force”, including “smacking”, is now prohibited for the specific purpose of “correction” – a concept which had never been crystalline in its clarity. However, strikingly, the use of “reasonable” parental force against a child, the age of whom is left undefined, was declared to be permissible in four new circumstances.
These circumstances were (a) preventing or minimising harm to the child or another person; or (b) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in conduct that amounted to a criminal offence; or (c) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in offensive or disruptive behaviour; or (d) performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting.