‘interestingly’, the ‘thing’ hanging between the baboon’s legs was probably not its ‘thing’ but its scrotum – other apes are relatively modestly endowed compared to humans (gorillas are the size of a pencil, ‘hung like a gorilla’ is an insult in parts of africa) but have much larger testes. other apes also have bones in theirs. sorry, just thought you might be interested
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Bob McCroskie: So you do not want to see smacking banned?
Helen Clark:Absolutely not, I think you are trying to defy human nature.
Fister: There was a point to that comment? That is exactly what Helen said (and for that matter what the cartoon said).
Doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t be judged by the police and the judiciary for using excessive force. Removing s59 allowed that to happen for some of the really abusive parents who were hiding behind their interpretation of ‘reasonable’.
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Looked at that quote again. Looks like you only see what you want to see. Why didn’t you highlight the bit I did above?
You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists ?
a) children are not reasonable adults
b) children need protection and boundaries
c) children sometimes run wild and need forcible restraint and correction
labour’s solution to the above: create a police state and criminalize 90% of parents.
I think you may not have realised that when repeal of S59 legislation was passed over a year ago now, there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults… ie what most people would be comfortable calling a smack.
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
RedLogix, it’s probably because he believes 90% of parents hit their children with such force that it would not be described as ‘transitory an trifling’. If you believe that, you probably think children need a good hiding, and that this really is a police state. Maybe it’s just ill-informed hyperbole, but it is rather sickening.
Redlogix and Matt Pill – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics? It’s a bit like putting a band aid on a festering wound! At least we are GOLD MEDALISTS in infanticide due to the culturally sensitive pc crap adopted by an out of step government and disgraceful police force. Shame on Labour because the evidence is bloody sickening.
Every politician has blood on their insidious hands. The blood of slain vulnerable children, for example the Kahui Twins, etc…etc…. the list is endless!!!!!
The Kahui Twins – the list is endless…. That’s just one there mate. Endless would be lots more than that.
Can’t hit a man
Can’t hit a woman
Can’t hit an inanimate object and cause damage
Can’t hit a dog
Children? Yeah lets hit them.
I agreed with the repeal of s59 before it happened but now that I look back it seems a big mistake. It has caused a lot of damage to this government.It was the Greens that set it in motion –
Sue Bradford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed and I don’t think she really thought about all the blowback that a policy change like this might make.
Congratulations on that Sue. Now NZ is polarised into two extremist camps about this issue. Children are still getting thumped. Imbeciles like Simon Barnett and dad4justice are coming out of the woodwork telling people how its their right to beat the love of God into their children.
This looks like the issue that will push the public into the hands of Mr Key.
How many kids you got savage mongrel and the list , oh yes, CYFS helped murder Coral Burrows, how long ago was that retard savage git ? Have another drink Ruth !!
Researchers have done a study of European nations and guess what, they found a direct correlation between nations that allowed physical correction and high violent death rates for children. Brutalising in the name of “correction” is a problem.
A recent police report indicated that a total of 4 (yes 4) new prosecutions had occurred within 6 months because of the bill. One was diverted, three remain to be resolved.
It is pretty obvious that the bill has nothing to do with our child mortality rate. If you want to do something about our child mortality rate support the Bill and don’t support the beating of kids …
D4J: “Redlogix – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics?”
No, not in the short term. This is a common misconception. The S59 repeal was an attempt to de-ligitimate violence in society, thereby making all forms of violence (including child abuse) less socially acceptable; and to provide certainty to those prosecuting child assaults, so they can do so without fear that the defendants will mount a spurious defence based on the Timaru Riding Crop precedent (or others like it).
Get real Lew, forget the riding crop as scum use hammers to bash kids too death. Oh that’s right have a Hui and make an alibi.
This country doesn’t care about our children and it’s beastly that we don’t respect our most valuable assets.Save the snails and whales but forget the kids !!!!
Now now dad4justice. No need to resort to silly name calling.
That’s two cases you have named now – hardly endless.
It was Steven Roger Williams that killed Coral Burrows, not CYFS.
You can’t go on blaming the government and government agencies for the acts of others dad4justice. Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?
Savage: I think you’ve hit on something here, but haven’t quite got the emphasis right. I agree with your analysis that the bill has polarised the electorate and given undue credence to D4J and associated nutters, but it’s not Sue Bradford’s job to run damage control for the government over her own private member’s bill. As far as she’s concerned, members (or parties) voted for or against it of their own free will, and good on them for supporting it.
Labour are the ones in the gun here, for adopting this bill in apparent contravention of their own leader’s statement, for whipping their members when other parties allowed a party vote, and especially for failing to play the symbolic issues at stake here properly – allowing the debate to be framed as `criminalising good parents’ rather than `protecting the most vulnerable members of society’.
So while I believe it’s good law and will remain materially unimpeded for the future, referendum or not, in a sense the government deserves to lose this election for its handling of this issue; and National deserve to win it for Key’s masterful stroke of playing both sides – appeasing the smackers with good rhetoric and an attempted compromise, and supporting the bill anyway when the compromise was spurned.
D4J: But the fact remains that the authorities were reluctant to prosecute child assaults by parents because the Timaru Riding Crop case could be used as a defence (and was used, quite effectively, to gain acquittal in a number of cases). This means that many potentially winnable child abuse cases weren’t even brought to trial because the police didn’t want to risk scarce resources, money and public goodwill on losing cases.
Is that good? Isn’t it good that police can now bring all winnable child abuse cases to trial without fear of losing due to precedent?
D4J: It’s just pointless trying to discuss anything with you, but then, I ought to know that by now. Speaking of frothing, you’ve been doing a lot of it lately, even by your own foamy standards.
A cowardly creep am I? I take that as a compliment from a keyboard tough-guy such as yourself dad4justice.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
I don’t really see why you are so upset. If you told me a little bit about yourself and your situation then I might have some sympathy.
And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.
HS: “I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.”
I entirely agree. The trouble is that their causes tend to be polarised by the extremists on either side, and the symbolic issues take precedence over the practical issues to the point where people lose sight of what should be done because they’re too busy taking up a place in one trench or the other.
Edit: “And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.”
How can it be proved if it’s not given a chance? D4J is arguing it shouldn’t be given a chance. Whether passed or not, this would always have been a case of one side arguing `oh, if we’d just done it my way things would have been fine’. Any discussion of the matter on these grounds is simply getting foamy about a counterfactual – not very productive in either case.
Can’t blame d4j too much — the Standard and others repeatedly (and dishonestly) use silly hyperbole on this issue. FWIW the cartoon ironically illustrates some things that Kiro, Bradford and co. fail to recognise: that children can be naughty monkeys. But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.
[lprent: Read the Rules. Address it to a person, not to the machine, because programs don’t have opinions (as you should know, your site uses the same one). There are about 14 post writers and innumerable commentators here – address whoever you want to disagree with. The posters here would have problems agreeing on all topics. ]
Sorry Savage Ruth – I couldn’t resist one more dig. If you think that some anonymous internet person can make me angry then you don’t know much about me. Must go, fish pie and Monkeys brains for tea. Haha 😉
ropata: “But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.”
They presume no such thing. They simply believe that children – like all other human beings – should not be subject to systematised assault, ever, for any reason; guilty, innocent or otherwise.
I see ropata eventually returns; but noteably fails to answer the very simple question I asked him.
I have to conclude that he does not want to answer it.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
Contrary to what people imagine, laws do not stop crime. The only thing that stops crime is when people are too ashamed by their own consciences to commit the act.
The purpose of the law is two-fold. One is to punish and deter, but more importantly, it serves to set boundaries and standards..
Laws are big clumsy things that will only on occasion be of use to a child in an abusive home.
The bill was introduced with good intentions but has been hijacked by rightist idealogues, pro-family nut-jobs, scaremongering newspaper editors and rabid talkback hosts.
Violence against anyone is a bad thing. The use of force in parenting is a shortcut remedy to poor parenting. If mutual respect is there between parent and child then there will be no need for smacking. How do teachers cope with over thirty children in a class with no option of violence against the students?
“The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.”
Lew, Didn’t National also whip it’s MP’s after ‘the amendment that didn’t change anything’ was added? But like you say the point of this debate is symbolic. The substantive debate is over, the anti smackers won and the law won’t be changed.
The whole saga has been bad for Labour, the Greens, and the left in general, but if wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s all very well being evenhanded but when all’s said and done, the Nat’s know it’s a good law, they voted for it, and like the Civil Unions or any of the other base enragers, they have no intention of changing it. Partly because there would be an equally damaging backlash against them if they did, from the other direction.
The Nat’s followers and surrogates (but not so much the Party itself) are happy ranting about these things because they are easy propaganda points that keep a small sector energised. But that’s the only point of the exercise, and they’ll keep at it for years.
It’s akin to the religious right in the States on abortion. Talk, talk, talk, collect bucketloads of money and campaign assistance but for gawds sake never seriously challenge the legislation. ‘Cause then you lose the benefit of the propaganda. Which is money and a cheap stick to beat your opponents with. Symbolically of course.
Essentially they are encouraging the anger of a segment of the population, but they have no plans to calm then down by addressing their complaints. It’s pretty shitty stuff in view. But I don’t know how the LP or the Greens can combat it.
They don’t combat it. They just do some thinking before enacting legislation that might be turned into an almighty weapon to lever them out of government.
Redlogix: I think you may not have realised that … there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults
Is that so? In that case what was wrong with Chester Borrows’ amendment?
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
My ‘purpose’ is concern for the welfare of children and families, and the potential for abuse by government agencies.
Mathew Pilot corrected me above, I should have used the words “tifling and transitory”… which still to my mind defines ‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’. Does this exemption put your mind at rest? And if not, why not?
All laws have the potential to be abused by govt agencies. Do you propose getting rid of all of them for this reason? I didn’t think so. If a govt or it’s agents misuses the powers we give them, then that is a political problem entirely separate from the question of child abuse.
Fister: Don’t avoid it – there was no volte-face. You just didn’t bother to read the whole quotation. Read it again. This time ask yourself what the difference is between assault and discipline.
Then you may (but I am always an optimist) actually understand where she was drawing the distinction between Beating and smacking.
Then attempt to understand the changes to the Act. The police still have the discretion to decide which they consider constitutes an assault.
The only difference is that the judges can’t be stymied by parents that consider beating a child with a riding crop, a lump of timber, fists, etc as being ‘reasonable’.
I don’t think that any of the ones I listed are. Do you? Where would you draw the line? Define your ‘mu’ – don’t just use it to avoid defining what you consider is reasonable.
BTW: I started in the anti-s59 reform side. I didn’t see why the bill was required (I was a shit of a kid myself). The opponents of s59 reform convinced me otherwise. What some considered as reasonable in the way that they raised their kids appalled me. The legal situation got interesting after I read some of the judgments where s59 was raised as a defense made me realize how daft the old law was. It came down to deciding what is ‘reasonable’. The short answer is that it wasn’t definable without listing all of the limits. It is simpler to let the police decide as they are closest to the coalface.
Indeed Lynn, the politicized police and the dangerous CYFS idiots are working at the coalface in the Aunty Helen mine of corruption. Arrest that father,destroy family loyalties because they’re so hard to control said H2, go girls go!!!
Despite what people think, New Zealand *does* let parents smack their children in four defined circumstances, writes JOHN CALDWELL.
Certainly the use of “reasonable force”, including “smacking”, is now prohibited for the specific purpose of “correction” – a concept which had never been crystalline in its clarity. However, strikingly, the use of “reasonable” parental force against a child, the age of whom is left undefined, was declared to be permissible in four new circumstances.
These circumstances were (a) preventing or minimising harm to the child or another person; or (b) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in conduct that amounted to a criminal offence; or (c) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in offensive or disruptive behaviour; or (d) performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting.
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Adam Smith, Massey UniversityA recent global assessment of shark populations at 371 coral reefs in 58 countries found no sharks at almost 20% of reefs and alarmingly low numbers at many others. The study, which involved over 100 scientists under the Global FinPrint project, gave New Zealand a good ...
On different trajectories and from different ends of the political spectrum, last night’s One News/Colmar Brunton poll has the Green Party and ACT converging around the five percent mark. And, as odd as it may sound, they head into the election campaign with a lot in common.Putting the Greens and ...
Janet Stephenson, University of OtagoA proposed multibillion-dollar project to build a pumped hydro storage plant could make New Zealand’s electricity grid 100% renewable, but expensive new infrastructure may not be the best way to achieve this. New Zealand’s electricity generation is already around 80% renewable, with just over half ...
Truth In Advertising: Labour, it would seem, is the party that knows nothing about running the economy right up until the moment that it does. HOW DID LABOUR acquire its reputation for being a poor economic manager? As with most things political and historical, it’s a long story.In the beginning, the ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Government rulemakers looking to decide how much money to spend to avoid adding more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere need a good estimate of what a warming climate will cost in social damages, for example through more extreme weather events. That point makes ...
Below is the list of gender-critical material which appeared on Redline from October 1, 2019 to October 31, 2019. Rainbow Tick threatens to pull Massey’s tick if lesbians are allowed to speak Freer Lives – a gender-critical Marxist site Freer Lives on Violence, debate and Britain’s Gender Recognition Act British ...
Fact Check: New Zealand’s own relationship with China might, however, be salvageable if our own Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade was willing to equip its minister, Winston Peters, with a few facts. Legislating for the protection of national security – the very action our Foreign Minister is decrying – ...
It's campaign time! The official countdown to Election Day is underway, with Labour supporters crowding into Auckland's Town Hall for our 2020 Campaign Launch. We recap some of the highlights below ...
It's campaign time! The official countdown to Election Day is underway, with Labour supporters crowding into Auckland's Town Hall for our 2020 Campaign Launch. We recap some of the highlights below ...
We've announced that we will expand the Flexi-wage programme to support up to 40,000 more people into work, or to help them start their own business. It's yet another way we're helping keep our economy moving by getting people into work and training. Read on to find out more ...
Business subsidy of on average $7500, and up to $22,000, to hire unemployed New ZealandersUp to 40,000 jobs to be supported by $311 million investment in keeping New Zealanders off the unemployment benefitRing-fenced fund to help unemployed start their own business ...
This week was the last of the 52nd Parliament: a major milestone for our Government and a great opportunity to look back at all the progress we've made for New Zealanders. This week, we increased support for businesses to take on apprentices, improved access to hospital care in Northland, and ...
Kia orana and kia ora koutou katoa. It is a privilege to be able to speak in this adjournment debate and to mark and acknowledge the fact that we are now two years and 10 months into the conclusion of a parliamentary term that has been extraordinary in so many ...
On 1 August, we marked the anniversary of Jacinda Ardern becoming the Leader of the Labour Party. On that day in 2017, Leader Andrew Little nominated Jacinda Ardern to succeed him and lead the party to victory.Now, three years on, we look back at some of the key moments ...
With the June 2020 quarter showing underemployment increasing, the Green Party is calling for a Guaranteed Minimum Income and an increase to the abatement threshold to ensure everyone has a dignified income. ...
We went hard and we went early in our health response to COVID-19, and we did everything we could to cushion the economic impact too. In fact, we can fill every letter of the alphabet with the steps we took to fight COVID-19 and ensure we were in a position ...
Investing in our people, backing businesses, and upgrading infrastructure and housing throughout the country - it's been another week of progress for New Zealanders as we deliver our plan to recover and rebuild. ...
July was another busy month, packed with key investments aimed at progressing our economic recovery as we rebuild New Zealand. We extended support for businesses, helped create jobs through local infrastructure projects, and kept working to clean up our waterways so Kiwis can access safe clean water. Check out the ...
The Green Party is calling for the Defence Force Chiefs in place between 2010-2017 to front up and explain how dishonesty, process and policy failures within the Defence Force led to ‘a series of incorrect statements in briefings to ministers and public releases’ regarding alleged breaches of international torture prevention ...
Thanks to our strong health response, New Zealand’s economy is more open than many other countries. But as COVID continues to surge around the world, the economic consequences of the virus will continue to be a challenge, which is why we have a detailed plan to help New Zealand bounce ...
Thanks to our strong health response, New Zealand’s economy is more open than many other countries. But as COVID continues to surge around the world, the economic consequences of the virus will continue to be a challenge, which is why we have a detailed plan to help New Zealand bounce ...
The Government is stepping up action to deal with environmentally harmful products – including plastic packaging, tyres and e-waste – before they become waste. ...
The Green Party are ensuring that New Zealanders who were overseas when COVID-19 hit will not be charged for the cost of isolation or quarantine if they return home to live. ...
It's been another week of creating jobs, supporting local businesses, and investing in infrastructure up and down the country - all of which are helping to keep our economy moving post-COVID-19. ...
Law changes to end tenure review and provide for better management of Crown pastoral lands in the South Island high country were considered by Parliament today with the first reading of the Crown Pastoral Land Reform Bill says Minister for Land Information, Eugenie Sage. ...
The Green Party have secured legislative amendments in a bill expected to pass third reading this week, to ensure better rules for school teachers and staff, so they can de-escalate children with diverse needs and cognitive differences, such as autism, rather than using unnecessary and often traumatising force. ...
A report undertaken by Ministerial Services into Iain Lees-Galloway’s ministerial expenditure has found no evidence of any inappropriate transactions or spending. Ministerial Services undertook a line by line review of all his expenditure, including staff and spouse expenses for the period 1 January 2019 to 30 June 2020. “I commissioned ...
Managed isolation charges for returnees will come into force from 12.01am Tuesday 11th August, after they passed their last cabinet milestone today, Housing Minister Megan Woods said. “The new charging system balances the rights of New Zealanders to return home and helps reduce pressure on the managed isolation and quarantine ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Henry Puna have welcomed the completion of phase one in the establishment of a travel bubble between New Zealand and the Cook Island. Negotiations on the text of an ‘Arrangement to Facilitate Quarantine-Free Travel ...
The Government has launched a new online, phone and onsite service to help New Zealanders connect to a range of employment support and products for workers and businesses affected by COVID-19, announced Minister of Education Chris Hipkins and Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. Connected.govt.nz is a one-stop-shop for jobseekers, ...
Security guards contracted to the Ministry of Social Development will be paid at least the Living Wage from next month supporting the Government’s commitment towards fair pay and employment conditions, announced Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. “MSD was among the first government agencies to pay its employees the living ...
The Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage today launched Te Mana o te Taiao, the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy - a way forward that envisions Aotearoa New Zealand as a place where ecosystems are healthy and resilient, and people embrace the natural world. “Many of New Zealand’s plants and wildlife species ...
“Pacific languages, cultures and identity are essential to the health, wellbeing and lifetime success of our Pacific peoples and their communities in Aotearoa. The strength and resilience of Pacific Aotearoa is not only vital to their own prosperity but integral to the prosperity of all New Zealanders, and is particularly ...
· $38 million to help schools cover unexpected costs related to COVID-19 · $69 million upgrade for online learning · $107 million contingency funding to support school construction suppliers facing additional costs due to the lockdown. The Government is releasing $214 million from the COVID-19 response and recovery fund to ...
Despite the Government installing safety upgrades around the country, people should still take care around rail crossings, said Transport Minister Phil Twyford launching Rail Safety Week. Phil Twyford said installing safety infrastructure is crucial, but we are encouraging people to be more careful around trains too. “We’re making good progress ...
The Government is providing a cash injection to help Palmerston North City Council complete a programme to provide 78 social housing units for vulnerable tenants. The $4.7 million to build 28 units in the Papaioea Place redevelopment comes from the $3 billion set aside for infrastructure in the Government’s COVID-19 ...
A pest free Banks Peninsula/Te Pātaka o Rākaihautū is one step closer with a $5.11 million boost to accelerate this project and create jobs, announced Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage in Canterbury today. “This is a game changer for this ambitious project to restore the native wildlife and plants on Ōtautahi/Christchurch’s doorstep ...
A Government grant of $6.4 million will expand the Pettigrew Arena in Taradale with new indoor courts of national standard. “The project is likely to take 18 months with approximately 300 people employed through the process,” Grant Robertson said. “The expansion will increase the indoor court space up to 11 ...
The Far North tourist destination of Mangonui is to receive Government funding to improve waterfront infrastructure, open up access to the harbour and improve water quality, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has announced. A total of $6.5 million from the $3 billion set aside in the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund ...
The Government has re-affirmed its commitment to supporting the hosting of the ICC Women’s Cricket World Cup, which the ICC has delayed from 2021 to 2022. “This is obviously a disappointing decision for cricket players and fans around the world and for the White Ferns and their supporters here at ...
Cyclists and walkers will now have a safer way to get around Taupō, Tūrangi, and between Hamilton and Cambridge, with funding for shared paths and Te Awa River Ride, Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter announced today. “The Te Awa River Ride is the latest part of massive growth ...
Six major cycle routes will be completed in Christchurch thanks to funding from the Government’s investment in shovel-ready infrastructure as part of the COVID-19 recovery Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter announced today. $125 million will be invested to kick-start construction and fund the completion of the following cycleway ...
Plans are underway for a brand new state-of-the-art hub for Whanganui’s justice and social agencies, following confirmation the ageing Whanganui Central Police Station is to be replaced. Police Minister Stuart Nash has announced $25 million in new infrastructure spending to improve facilities for the wider community, and for staff who ...
An adjustment payment has been made to Waikato-Tainui and Ngāi Tahu under the relativity mechanisms in their 1995 and 1997 Treaty of Waitangi settlements, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little announced today. The latest payments to Waikato-Tainui and Ngāi Tahu are $2,700,000 and $2,600,000 respectively to ensure the ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Transport Minister Phil Twyford today kicked off the start of the Auckland NZ Upgrade Programme rail projects which will support over 400 jobs and help unlock our biggest city. Both ministers marked the start of enabling works on the third main rail line project ...
The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) investment of $3.78 million in Wairoa will create much needed economic stimulus and jobs, Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. PGF projects announced today include: $200,000 loan to Nuhaka Kiwifruit Holdings Ltd (operated by Pine Valley Orchard Ltd) to increase the productivity ...
Tenants in public and Māori housing may be benefiting from their own affordable renewable energy in future – a fund to trial renewable energy technology for public and Māori housing has today been announced by Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods and Associate Minister for Housing (Māori Housing) Nanaia Mahuta. ...
Hokianga will receive $2.7 million to redevelop four of its wharves and upgrade its water supply, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. Far North District Council will receive $1.8 million from the Provincial Growth Fund for the work on the wharves. “The work will include the construction of ...
A $350 million Residential Development Response Fund is being established to support the residential construction sector and to minimise the economic impact from COVID-19, the Housing Minister Dr Megan Woods has announced. “The Residential Development Response Fund will help to progress stalled or at-risk developments that support our broader housing ...
As part of a broader plan to divert waste from landfill, the Government today announced $10.67 million for new infrastructure as part of the Resource Recovery Network across the Auckland region. “This key investment in Auckland’s community recycling network is part of the Government’s Infrastructure Reference Group ‘shovel ready’ projects ...
The Government is investing $45 million in the first stage of an ambitious urban development project for Tauranga that will employ up to 250 people and help the region grow, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says the funding has been allocated out of the $3 billion ...
Getting low-emission trucks on the road is a step closer with investment in infrastructure to support hydrogen vehicles, the Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods has announced. The Infrastructure Reference Group has provisionally approved $20 million for New Plymouth company Hiringa Energy to establish a nationwide network of hydrogen-fuelling stations. ...
A new trades training centre to upskill the local workforce will be built in the South Waikato town of Tokoroa through funding from the Government’s COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund, Education Minister Chris Hipkins and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones have announced. The Government will contribute $10.84 million from ...
The Government has agreed to repeal part of the Oranga Tamariki Act subsequent children provisions, Minister for Children Tracey Martin announced today. “There are times when children need to go into care for their safety – the safety and care of children must always be paramount,” Minister Martin said. “But ...
A $1.5 million boost to grow primary mental health and addiction services for Pacific peoples in Auckland, Hamilton and Canterbury will lead to better outcomes for Pacific communities, Associate Health Minister Jenny Salesa says. Pasifika Futures has received funding to expand services through The Fono, Aotearoa New Zealand’s largest by ...
Twenty-two projects to boost the sustainability and climate resilience of New Zealand’s food and fibres sector have been announced today by Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. The $18m funding will deliver practical knowledge to help farmers and growers use their land more sustainably, meet environmental targets, remain prosperous, and better understand ...
Employment Minister Willie Jackson welcomes an initiative that assists employers to get mature workers into New Zealand small businesses. The disadvantages that older people face in the workplace was highlighted in the whole of Government Employment Strategy. In order to address this, a Mature Workers Toolkit has been developed and ...
New Zealand and Australia reaffirmed today the need for the closest possible collaboration as they tackle a global environment shaped by COVID-19, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters said. “In these challenging times, our close collaboration with Australia is more vital than ever,” said Mr Peters. Mr Peters and his Australian ...
The recovery and forensic examination of the loader driven by survivor Russell Smith means the underground team are now moving into an area of the Pike River Mine that has not been seen since the explosion, Minister Responsible for Pike River Re-entry Andrew Little said. “The fifth and last robot ...
The Government has confirmed a community-wide trial of CovidCard technology as it explores options for COVID-19 contact tracing. “Effective contact tracing is a vital part of the COVID-19 response,” Minister of Health Chris Hipkins said. “While manual processes remain the critical component for contact tracing, we know digital solutions can ...
The government is proposing changes to aquaculture legislation to improve the process for allocating and transferring aquaculture assets to iwi. Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash has introduced the Maori Commercial Aquaculture Claims Settlement Amendment Bill to Parliament. It proposes a limited new discretionary power for Te Ohu Kaimoana Trustee Limited (ToKM). ...
The Minister of Justice has today introduced the Family Court (Supporting Children in Court) Legislation Bill – the next step in the ongoing programme of work to fix the failed 2014 Family Court reforms led by then Justice Minister Judith Collins. The Bill arises from the report of the Independent ...
A new Department of Conservation (DOC) action plan tackles the impacts of climate change on New Zealand’s biodiversity and DOC managed infrastructure including tracks, huts and cultural heritage. Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage says extreme weather events around the country have really brought home our vulnerability to changing weather patterns. ...
A heavily scaled back international Antarctic season will commence this week, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods have confirmed. “Antarctica is the only continent that is COVID-19 free,” Mr Peters said. “Throughout the global pandemic, essential operations and long-term science have continued at ...
The Government is providing up to $30 million to help fund the NZ Campus of Innovation and Sport in Upper Hutt - an investment that will create 244 jobs. “The sports hub is designed to be a world-leading shared service for a range of sports, offering the level of facilities ...
Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today transport projects currently in construction will continue at pace due to extra Government support for transport projects to mitigate the impact of COVID-19. To keep the $16.9 billion 2018-21 National Land Transport Programme going the Government has allocated funding from the COVID Response and ...
Tonight the National Party has selected Emma Mellow to stand in the Auckland Central electorate for the 2020 General Election. Emma Mellow replaces retiring MP Nikki Kaye who first won the seat from Labour in 2008. Emma leads a team of communications ...
Pacific Media Watch Newsdesk Radio 95bFM The Wire’s Zoë Larsen Cumming and Justin Wong talked to Pacific Media Centre director Professor David Robie today about a resurgence of coronavirus cases in Papua New Guinea and the impact of other Pacific cases on two very important upcoming votes in Bougainville and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Chris Maylea, Senior Lecturer, Law and Social Work, RMIT University The second wave of the coronavirus and the resulting restrictions have impacted all Victorians. Many are struggling, but some are struggling more than others. In response to the increasing number of people ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Stone, General practitioner; Clinical Associate Professor, ANU Medical School, Australian National University Last week, the Australian government announced it will provide ten extra Medicare-subsidised psychological therapy sessions for Australians in lockdown areas due to COVID-19. In such a stressful time, many ...
It looks like science has come off second best in government considerations during the development of Te Mana o te Taiao, the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy, which envisions New Zealand as a place where ecosystems are healthy and resilient, and people embrace the natural world. The press statement announcing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wanning Sun, Professor of Media and Cultural Studies, University of Technology Sydney US President Donald Trump’s recent moves against Tiktok, the popular video-sharing platform, have been widely seen as part of a new “tech Cold War” between the US and China. Trump ...
National leader Judith Collins has endorsed David Seymour in the Epsom seat and recent polls have put support for ACT anywhere between 3 and 5 percent - giving it up to six MPs. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lily O’Neill, Research Fellow, Australian National University Huge clean energy projects, such as the Asian Renewable Energy Hub in the Pilbara, Western Australia, are set to produce gigawatts of electricity over vast expanses of land in the near future. The Asian Renewable ...
Remarks by new coach Nathan Brown and the closed-door discussions by the club around recruiting a man facing sexual assault charges undermines the rugby league club’s values, writes Tiffany Salmond.It’s been a hot topic in rugby league circles for well over a year – but not for the right reasons.Former ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Uri Gal, Associate Professor in Business Information Systems, University of Sydney The recent questioning of the heads of Amazon, Facebook, Google and Apple in the US Congress has highlighted the threat their practices pose to our privacy and democracy. However these big ...
Good habits start young, and with Money Week this week, now is a great time to look at how we can support and nourish our kids’ financial journeys writes Banqer’s Simon Brown. For some reason, a lot of people see money as a boring topic. But the fact is, it’s a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Melbourne This week’s federal Newspoll, conducted August 5-8 from a sample of 1,509, gave the Coalition a 52-48 lead, a one-point gain for Labor since the last Newspoll, three weeks ago. ...
A tender for underwater inspection services at the abandoned oil field off the coast of Taranaki has shed light on the dubious state of its subsea infrastructure. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Plank, Professor in Mathematics, University of Canterbury Our latest modelling shows New Zealanders need to redouble their efforts to keep track of people they meet, if we are to have a chance of controlling any re-emergence of COVID-19. The director general ...
Local Government New Zealand’s (LGNZ) Regional Sector has today welcomed the launch of Te Mana o te Taiao, the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy, citing robust collaboration with iwi, regional councils and private landowners and leadership from ...
The High Court has ruled today that Greenpeace is entitled to register as a charity and that the Charities Registration Board was in error for declining the environmental campaigning organisation’s application. In a summary of the judgement posted online ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Dobson, Professor and Dean of Education, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington The English language in education today is all-pervasive. “Hear more English, speak more English and become more successful” has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Some say it’s already ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stuart Richards, Lecturer in Screen Studies, University of South Australia Review: Welcome to Chechnya, screening at the Melbourne International Film Festival Welcome to Chechnya, screening online as part of MIFF 68½, is a bracing documentary. This film is part of a queer ...
It’s become fashionable among some political circles to advocate for a laissez-faire approach to debt, on the basis that the government can issue as much debt as it likes – for as long as it likes. But there’s one big drawback to ‘just print more money’ argument, writes Pattrick Smellie ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Australia’s aged care sector was “underprepared” to deal with the COVID-19 outbreak and federal authorities had no specific plan for it, according to a stinging indictment from Peter Rozen QC, senior counsel assisting the royal ...
A Productivity Commission report finding was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of disease transmission dynamics, and now that error has itself been transmitted in the media and into the election campaign, write Nic Steyn, Mike Plank, Alex James, Rachelle Binny, Audrey Lustig and Shaun Hendy of Te ...
Latest from the Beehive Here’s hoping the hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into Northland from the Provincial Growth Fund and other government programmes do much more to promote the region’s economic and social wellbeing than they are doing to enhance Shane Jones’ election prospects. He is bound to be ...
The first Auckland Central debate took place last night, despite the lack of a National candidate. Josie Adams went along to watch Helen White, Chlöe Swarbrick and the rest.The Auckland Central electorate stretches from the depths of Grafton across the Hauraki Gulf to Aotea (Great Barrier). Its residents are Waiheke’s ...
Kiwibank was right to refuse the business of sex-trade operators exploiting women and children, says Wahine Toa Rising, a newly-formed organisation led by survivors of the trade in New Zealand. Spokeswoman Ally Marie Diamond said "we were gutted ...
During the worst days of the Covid-19 outbreak in New Zealand, Matamata was right at the heart of it all. Alex Braae went to the Waikato town to ask people how they’re getting on now.On the signs heading out to the Hobbiton Movie Set about 10 minutes away from the ...
The government has announced a pay increase for security guards at the Ministry of Social Development as the Labour Party makes a commitment to government agency workers for fair pay and working conditions. ...
“As sure as God made little apples, she would have reinvented herself and she will be ripping someone off in England as we speak,” predicted a former colleague of Joanne Harrison. A new investigation reveals the charming fraudster, who stole ...
Lihir is the second mine in Papua New Guinea to report a confirmed covid-19 case as the national total of infections reached 214 at the weekend. Newcrest Mining Limited confirmed that a 30-year-old male, a mine employee who had flown in from the capital Port Moresby on July 30, had ...
E te rangatira, e te tohunga, e te Tiati, haere, haere, haere atu ra. Haere ki o tupuna, no ratou nga taonga i tuku iho ki a koe, hei whangai mai ki a matou. ...
Commitment from all political parties to implementing the new Te Mana o te Taiao - Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy is vital to protecting our future, says Forest & Bird. “The Strategy clearly says that New Zealand’s environment ...
The 75th anniversary of the end of the Second World War will be acknowledged on 15 August, with a commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park in Wellington, Manatū Taonga Ministry for Culture and Heritage Chief Executive Bernadette ...
New Zealand's total fertility rate has reached an all-time low, with an average of 1.71 children per woman in New Zealand, well below population replacement level. “ Families: Ever Fewer or No Children , How Worried Should We Be? “ - a report ...
Joint Press Release: NextElection, Scoop.co.nz, ScoopCitizen NextElection , a technology platform empowering democracy and Government accountability, and Scoop Independent News have partnered to strengthen citizen participation in the 2020 New Zealand General ...
Since March 15 2019, a string of lone actor, far-right copycat atrocities provide important clues to the kind of transnational, online movement we now confront, writes Emanuel Stoakes.Before storming the Al Noor Mosque, the would-be killer dressed in military fatigues, attempted a livestream and signalled his intent on an image ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cordelia Fine, Professor, History & Philosophy of Science program, School of Historical & Philosophical Studies, University of Melbourne How useful are the well-known and hotly contested categories of “male brain” and “female brain”? Among experts, nobody really questions that anatomical sex differences ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Frank Bongiorno, Professor of History, ANU College of Arts and Social Sciences, Australian National University Earlier this month, there were media reports that Liberal backbencher Craig Kelly had posted to Facebook advocating the anti-malarial drug, hydroxychloroquine, as a treatment for COVID-19. Kelly ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Carissa Bonner, Research Fellow, University of Sydney If the media is anything to go by, you’d think people who believe coronavirus myths are white, middle-aged women called Karen. But our new study shows a different picture. We found men and people aged ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Graeme Pearman, Professorial Fellow, Australian-German Climate and Energy College, University of Melbourne There is global interest in the potential for a hydrogen economy, in part driven by a concern over climate change and the need to move away from fossil fuels. This ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mehmet Aslan, Honorary Fellow, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Australian universities are expected to lose billions of dollars in revenue due to the impacts of COVID-19. The estimated lost revenue from international students alone is A$18 billion by ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Owain Emslie, Senior Associate, Grattan Institute Grattan Institute research published today shows the average 25-year-old woman who goes on to have a child can expect to earn A$2 million less by the time she is 70 than the average 25-year-old man who ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Beck Wise, Lecturer in Professional Writing, The University of Queensland You might have scrolled right by Annastacia Palaszczuk’s recent quote posts if you saw them on Instagram – just another lifestyle influencer posting a “deep” quote – but when she (or her ...
Welcome to Election Live for August 10, bringing you the latest on election 2020 and other breaking news. For key dates in the election seasonclick here. For all you need to know about the cannabis referendum click here. For the assisted dying referendum click here. Policy launches tomorrow. Get ...
New Zealand First and leader Winston Peters are up against it this year in the general elections if the polls are to be believed, but the political veteran shows no sign of giving up yet. ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Labour launches campaign while National releases list, frantic final days at parliament wrapped, and new poll shows Shane Jones in trouble in Northland.Some would say the campaign has been underway for months in a proxy form, but officially, it’s now ...
How far away are vaccines which could end the pandemic and how many doses can be made quickly? Finding a vaccine which protects against the coronavirus which causes Covid-19 is seen as the best way to stop the continued spread of the disease. It's estimated around 70 percent of the ...
Kiwibank's initial plans to blacklist the adult entertainment industry ran into opposition from the New Zealand Prostitutes' Collective, but the bank is being urged to stick to its guns by Wahine Toa Rising - a new trans-Tasman group set up by ex-sex workers. Yvonne van Dongen reports Last month Kiwibank rolled ...
The wife of a Chinese dissident killed in a recent car crash says she’s struggling to raise her children without the support of her husband - the family’s sole income earner Xi Weiguo (48) died in a car crash in Tokoroa on July 21, along with fellow pro-democracy campaigner Wang ...
Paula Morris on her former writing student, now the author of a worldwide smash, Auckland novelist Rose Carlyle On a mild Wednesday evening last week, I attended the launch for a debut novel. There were more than 100 guests crowding the ground floor of the National Library in Auckland. There ...
Let's not delude ourselves, temporary migrant workers are being exploited in this country - and it's nothing new, writes Christina Stringer The reality of slavery, human trafficking and the exploitation of temporary migrant workers in New Zealand was exposed last month with the successful conviction of a 66-year-old man in the Napier ...
Belinda Cordwell remains New Zealand's highest-ranked singles tennis player, having climbed to No.17 in the world. But today you'll find her chasing sheep rather than a fuzzy green ball. You may remember Belinda Cordwell came within two victories of being New Zealand’s only woman Grand Slam tennis champion. But you might ...
The Ministry of Health; "The term unborn child is not a scientific term and does not have a commonly accepted definition." The Prime Minister said in September 2018, "If you ask me why I'm in politics, my answer will be simple: children." ...
We do not have to roll along with the status quo. We are asking New Zealanders to choose help over handcuffs, prevention over prisons, and healing over punishment, writes Laura O’Connell Rapira.It is said that the first Pacific voyagers to sail to these lands visualised this place before they reached ...
In the blur of the last week of this parliament, a law that discriminated against family disability carers was torn from the books. It’s one of those moments when we can see why political activism of all kinds actually matters, writes Andrew Geddis.Last week, on Wednesday evening (which in parliament’s ...
Binge-drinking in teenagers has dropped dramatically in the past 20 years - but the reasons for that are complex Teenage binge-drinking has "dropped off the cliff" in the last 20 years but until now, no one really knew why. A new paper, What explains the decline in adolescent binge-drinking in New ...
A senior journalism lecturer is urging the foreign media to respect New Zealand’s strict reporting restrictions for the sentencing of the gunman who carried out the Christchurch mosque attacks last year. Brenton Tarrant will be sentenced in the High Court in Christchurch beginning on Monday, August 24. Eighteen overseas and ...
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Campaigns. Culture. Character. And perhaps most of all, Covid. Now the House has risen and politicians are hitting the road to pitch their woo to voters, those will be front of mind for the candidates.They were also where the new season of politics podcast Caucus began on Thursday. This year ...6 hours ago
There are only a few days left to make a submission on Statistics New Zealand's consultation on sex and gender identity statistical standards. This represents a really important step for recognising the very real diversity of gender, including people with no gender, and ensuring everyone has the option to see ...6 hours ago
NewsHub Nation has launched a new podcast, "Supplementary Question". Their inaugural episode is about the OIA, and asks "is our most important transparency law fit for purpose?" While they interviewed Justice Minister Andrew Little and Ombudsman Peter Boshier for this, there's not actually a lot of them in there, and ...11 hours ago
Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Drawdown Review 2020: How To Address Global Warming In A Responsible Manner Source: Project Drawdown Project Drawdown is a non-profit organization that relies ...19 hours ago
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A zoo ?
Looks more like parliamentary question time to me !
Overheard outside the Baboon enclosure at Wellington Zoo;
“Eugh, what’s that thing dangling down between it’s legs?”
Overheard at Singapore Zoo;
“Ooh, look at that Chimpanzee carrying its baby on its back… just like a kangaroo!”
Anthropology FAIL
Anthropology?
I remember when cartoons were funny.
Anthropology?
zoology, perhaps?
‘interestingly’, the ‘thing’ hanging between the baboon’s legs was probably not its ‘thing’ but its scrotum – other apes are relatively modestly endowed compared to humans (gorillas are the size of a pencil, ‘hung like a gorilla’ is an insult in parts of africa) but have much larger testes. other apes also have bones in theirs. sorry, just thought you might be interested
Savage was that back in the 1970s when Bromhead was a leading cartoonist, a sexist bigoted one?
Bah, science fail for me…
Steve, the breadth of your knowledge for useless information is astounding
Nah Bromhead is about as funny as knee-surgery. I myself like Tom Scott. Have a read of ‘The Unauthorised Version – a Cartoon History of NZ.’
Sexism and bigotry can be very funny.
Helen Clark: A lot of people aren’t comfortable with beatings but they don’t want to see, you know, stressed and harassed parents, you know, pulled in by the police because they, they smacked a child.
Bob McCroskie: So you do not want to see smacking banned?
Helen Clark: Absolutely not, I think you are trying to defy human nature.
I don’t get it. Is that meant to be Clark giving Mallard a clip around the ear?
And why is that guy wearing Charlie Brown’s jersey?
Fister: There was a point to that comment? That is exactly what Helen said (and for that matter what the cartoon said).
Doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t be judged by the police and the judiciary for using excessive force. Removing s59 allowed that to happen for some of the really abusive parents who were hiding behind their interpretation of ‘reasonable’.
Fister:
Looked at that quote again. Looks like you only see what you want to see. Why didn’t you highlight the bit I did above?
You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists ?
I think I should be able to smack and kick my kids.
Also thump my wife if she gets lippy and doesn’t have my dinner on the table when I expect it.
And shoot my dog if it barks when it shouldn’t.
Does Aunty Helen smack the crap out of her Teddy Bears?
Exbrethren, is your real name Chris Farter? Pooh you stink, wipe it please.
How did that man ever work out the mechanics of breeding?
If I did that at the Wellington zoo I’d get thrown out by the speaker!
George, wooden leg would throw another hissy fit and peanuts would fly everywhere again.
a) children are not reasonable adults
b) children need protection and boundaries
c) children sometimes run wild and need forcible restraint and correction
labour’s solution to the above: create a police state and criminalize 90% of parents.
piss off noddy
ropata,
I think you may not have realised that when repeal of S59 legislation was passed over a year ago now, there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults… ie what most people would be comfortable calling a smack.
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
RedLogix, it’s probably because he believes 90% of parents hit their children with such force that it would not be described as ‘transitory an trifling’. If you believe that, you probably think children need a good hiding, and that this really is a police state. Maybe it’s just ill-informed hyperbole, but it is rather sickening.
Redlogix and Matt Pill – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics? It’s a bit like putting a band aid on a festering wound! At least we are GOLD MEDALISTS in infanticide due to the culturally sensitive pc crap adopted by an out of step government and disgraceful police force. Shame on Labour because the evidence is bloody sickening.
Every politician has blood on their insidious hands. The blood of slain vulnerable children, for example the Kahui Twins, etc…etc…. the list is endless!!!!!
The Kahui Twins – the list is endless…. That’s just one there mate. Endless would be lots more than that.
Can’t hit a man
Can’t hit a woman
Can’t hit an inanimate object and cause damage
Can’t hit a dog
Children? Yeah lets hit them.
I agreed with the repeal of s59 before it happened but now that I look back it seems a big mistake. It has caused a lot of damage to this government.It was the Greens that set it in motion –
Sue Bradford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed and I don’t think she really thought about all the blowback that a policy change like this might make.
Congratulations on that Sue. Now NZ is polarised into two extremist camps about this issue. Children are still getting thumped. Imbeciles like Simon Barnett and dad4justice are coming out of the woodwork telling people how its their right to beat the love of God into their children.
This looks like the issue that will push the public into the hands of Mr Key.
How many kids you got savage mongrel and the list , oh yes, CYFS helped murder Coral Burrows, how long ago was that retard savage git ? Have another drink Ruth !!
Dad4justice
Researchers have done a study of European nations and guess what, they found a direct correlation between nations that allowed physical correction and high violent death rates for children. Brutalising in the name of “correction” is a problem.
A recent police report indicated that a total of 4 (yes 4) new prosecutions had occurred within 6 months because of the bill. One was diverted, three remain to be resolved.
It is pretty obvious that the bill has nothing to do with our child mortality rate. If you want to do something about our child mortality rate support the Bill and don’t support the beating of kids …
D4J: “Redlogix – is the anti smacking bill a pathetic attempt at addressing our appalling child abuse statistics?”
No, not in the short term. This is a common misconception. The S59 repeal was an attempt to de-ligitimate violence in society, thereby making all forms of violence (including child abuse) less socially acceptable; and to provide certainty to those prosecuting child assaults, so they can do so without fear that the defendants will mount a spurious defence based on the Timaru Riding Crop precedent (or others like it).
L
Get real Lew, forget the riding crop as scum use hammers to bash kids too death. Oh that’s right have a Hui and make an alibi.
This country doesn’t care about our children and it’s beastly that we don’t respect our most valuable assets.Save the snails and whales but forget the kids !!!!
Proud to be kiwi – yeah right!
Now now dad4justice. No need to resort to silly name calling.
That’s two cases you have named now – hardly endless.
It was Steven Roger Williams that killed Coral Burrows, not CYFS.
You can’t go on blaming the government and government agencies for the acts of others dad4justice. Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?
Savage: I think you’ve hit on something here, but haven’t quite got the emphasis right. I agree with your analysis that the bill has polarised the electorate and given undue credence to D4J and associated nutters, but it’s not Sue Bradford’s job to run damage control for the government over her own private member’s bill. As far as she’s concerned, members (or parties) voted for or against it of their own free will, and good on them for supporting it.
Labour are the ones in the gun here, for adopting this bill in apparent contravention of their own leader’s statement, for whipping their members when other parties allowed a party vote, and especially for failing to play the symbolic issues at stake here properly – allowing the debate to be framed as `criminalising good parents’ rather than `protecting the most vulnerable members of society’.
So while I believe it’s good law and will remain materially unimpeded for the future, referendum or not, in a sense the government deserves to lose this election for its handling of this issue; and National deserve to win it for Key’s masterful stroke of playing both sides – appeasing the smackers with good rhetoric and an attempted compromise, and supporting the bill anyway when the compromise was spurned.
L
D4J: But the fact remains that the authorities were reluctant to prosecute child assaults by parents because the Timaru Riding Crop case could be used as a defence (and was used, quite effectively, to gain acquittal in a number of cases). This means that many potentially winnable child abuse cases weren’t even brought to trial because the police didn’t want to risk scarce resources, money and public goodwill on losing cases.
Is that good? Isn’t it good that police can now bring all winnable child abuse cases to trial without fear of losing due to precedent?
L
“Have you ever had a really good long look at yourself and thought about what has made you into such an angry and abusive person?”
Several Christchurch judges would disagree with your mental frothings you cowardly creep. Have another stiff one Ruth red face.
Lew – proud of our child abuse stats are you? Good on ya mate give yourself a whipping with a riding crop.
D4J: It’s just pointless trying to discuss anything with you, but then, I ought to know that by now. Speaking of frothing, you’ve been doing a lot of it lately, even by your own foamy standards.
Say it, don’t spray it.
L
Lew
you might be interested at some stage that the debate still goes on in other countries as I expect it will in NZ.
I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.
A cowardly creep am I? I take that as a compliment from a keyboard tough-guy such as yourself dad4justice.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
I don’t really see why you are so upset. If you told me a little bit about yourself and your situation then I might have some sympathy.
And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.
HS: “I’m still of the opinion that the vast majority on both sides of the debate want what’s best for children and despise child abuse.”
I entirely agree. The trouble is that their causes tend to be polarised by the extremists on either side, and the symbolic issues take precedence over the practical issues to the point where people lose sight of what should be done because they’re too busy taking up a place in one trench or the other.
Edit: “And in d4js defence if anyone could prove to him that the repeal of S59 will save any young lives from the plague of abusive parents I’m sure he’d be the first to support it.”
How can it be proved if it’s not given a chance? D4J is arguing it shouldn’t be given a chance. Whether passed or not, this would always have been a case of one side arguing `oh, if we’d just done it my way things would have been fine’. Any discussion of the matter on these grounds is simply getting foamy about a counterfactual – not very productive in either case.
L
I help many parents within the judicial system and I detest child abuse in ANY shape or form.
Must cook tea for my daughter.
Goodbye!
Never cook when you are angry dad4justice – your meal will turn out very bitter.
Savage: Sounds like your advice could be shortened to `never cook’ in this case.
L
Can’t blame d4j too much — the Standard and others repeatedly (and dishonestly) use silly hyperbole on this issue. FWIW the cartoon ironically illustrates some things that Kiro, Bradford and co. fail to recognise: that children can be naughty monkeys. But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.
[lprent: Read the Rules. Address it to a person, not to the machine, because programs don’t have opinions (as you should know, your site uses the same one). There are about 14 post writers and innumerable commentators here – address whoever you want to disagree with. The posters here would have problems agreeing on all topics. ]
Sorry Savage Ruth – I couldn’t resist one more dig. If you think that some anonymous internet person can make me angry then you don’t know much about me. Must go, fish pie and Monkeys brains for tea. Haha 😉
ropata: “But Labour seems to live on a different planet where it is imagined that all children are angelically innocent.”
They presume no such thing. They simply believe that children – like all other human beings – should not be subject to systematised assault, ever, for any reason; guilty, innocent or otherwise.
L
Ropata
You forget it is Sue Bradfords bill not Labour’s – Helen Clark called it right first time with her comment as above from lprent.
heck I suppose beasts dine everynight on hot tongue and cold shoulder
I see ropata eventually returns; but noteably fails to answer the very simple question I asked him.
I have to conclude that he does not want to answer it.
No laws are ever really going to protect those children in need. There are things that might lessen the amount of child abuse occurring – but it will never stop.
Contrary to what people imagine, laws do not stop crime. The only thing that stops crime is when people are too ashamed by their own consciences to commit the act.
The purpose of the law is two-fold. One is to punish and deter, but more importantly, it serves to set boundaries and standards..
Who do I think of Michael Cullen and Trevor Mallard when I look that cartoon??
Laws are big clumsy things that will only on occasion be of use to a child in an abusive home.
The bill was introduced with good intentions but has been hijacked by rightist idealogues, pro-family nut-jobs, scaremongering newspaper editors and rabid talkback hosts.
Violence against anyone is a bad thing. The use of force in parenting is a shortcut remedy to poor parenting. If mutual respect is there between parent and child then there will be no need for smacking. How do teachers cope with over thirty children in a class with no option of violence against the students?
“The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.”
David Friedman
Lew, Didn’t National also whip it’s MP’s after ‘the amendment that didn’t change anything’ was added? But like you say the point of this debate is symbolic. The substantive debate is over, the anti smackers won and the law won’t be changed.
The whole saga has been bad for Labour, the Greens, and the left in general, but if wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s all very well being evenhanded but when all’s said and done, the Nat’s know it’s a good law, they voted for it, and like the Civil Unions or any of the other base enragers, they have no intention of changing it. Partly because there would be an equally damaging backlash against them if they did, from the other direction.
The Nat’s followers and surrogates (but not so much the Party itself) are happy ranting about these things because they are easy propaganda points that keep a small sector energised. But that’s the only point of the exercise, and they’ll keep at it for years.
It’s akin to the religious right in the States on abortion. Talk, talk, talk, collect bucketloads of money and campaign assistance but for gawds sake never seriously challenge the legislation. ‘Cause then you lose the benefit of the propaganda. Which is money and a cheap stick to beat your opponents with. Symbolically of course.
Essentially they are encouraging the anger of a segment of the population, but they have no plans to calm then down by addressing their complaints. It’s pretty shitty stuff in view. But I don’t know how the LP or the Greens can combat it.
They don’t combat it. They just do some thinking before enacting legislation that might be turned into an almighty weapon to lever them out of government.
Redlogix:
I think you may not have realised that … there was included specific guidance that effectively exempted ‘transient and trivial’ assaults
Is that so? In that case what was wrong with Chester Borrows’ amendment?
I would be interested to know why you think this exemption is not sufficient for your purposes?
My ‘purpose’ is concern for the welfare of children and families, and the potential for abuse by government agencies.
Mathew Pilot corrected me above, I should have used the words “tifling and transitory”… which still to my mind defines ‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’. Does this exemption put your mind at rest? And if not, why not?
All laws have the potential to be abused by govt agencies. Do you propose getting rid of all of them for this reason? I didn’t think so. If a govt or it’s agents misuses the powers we give them, then that is a political problem entirely separate from the question of child abuse.
lprent: You like hitting kids with lumps of timber? Or your fists?
Oooh nasty! All I did was point out Clarke’s volte-face on the issue.
By the way, the answer to your question is, of course, “Mu”. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/mu.html
Fister: Don’t avoid it – there was no volte-face. You just didn’t bother to read the whole quotation. Read it again. This time ask yourself what the difference is between assault and discipline.
Then you may (but I am always an optimist) actually understand where she was drawing the distinction between Beating and smacking.
Then attempt to understand the changes to the Act. The police still have the discretion to decide which they consider constitutes an assault.
The only difference is that the judges can’t be stymied by parents that consider beating a child with a riding crop, a lump of timber, fists, etc as being ‘reasonable’.
I don’t think that any of the ones I listed are. Do you? Where would you draw the line? Define your ‘mu’ – don’t just use it to avoid defining what you consider is reasonable.
BTW: I started in the anti-s59 reform side. I didn’t see why the bill was required (I was a shit of a kid myself). The opponents of s59 reform convinced me otherwise. What some considered as reasonable in the way that they raised their kids appalled me. The legal situation got interesting after I read some of the judgments where s59 was raised as a defense made me realize how daft the old law was. It came down to deciding what is ‘reasonable’. The short answer is that it wasn’t definable without listing all of the limits. It is simpler to let the police decide as they are closest to the coalface.
Indeed Lynn, the politicized police and the dangerous CYFS idiots are working at the coalface in the Aunty Helen mine of corruption. Arrest that father,destroy family loyalties because they’re so hard to control said H2, go girls go!!!
PB
“And why is that guy wearing Charlie Brown’s jersey?”
lol
‘a few open handed smacks on the bottom that might leave a red mark, but not bruising’
How many is a few?
How big is the red mark allowed to be?
How soon after correction is the red mark measured?
How soon after correction is bruising checked?
Define a bruise, how small can the blue patch be before it’s no longer a bruise?
This article in the Press cleared up a lot of misconceptions — The Standard should blog it!
Despite what people think, New Zealand *does* let parents smack their children in four defined circumstances, writes JOHN CALDWELL.
Certainly the use of “reasonable force”, including “smacking”, is now prohibited for the specific purpose of “correction” – a concept which had never been crystalline in its clarity. However, strikingly, the use of “reasonable” parental force against a child, the age of whom is left undefined, was declared to be permissible in four new circumstances.
These circumstances were (a) preventing or minimising harm to the child or another person; or (b) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in conduct that amounted to a criminal offence; or (c) preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in offensive or disruptive behaviour; or (d) performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting.