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Body on Key’s moral compass

Written By: - Date published: 7:04 am, September 8th, 2015 - 48 comments
Categories: cartoons, Ethics, john key, leadership - Tags: , , ,

The Herald’s Guy Body nails it:

moral choices focus groups body

48 comments on “Body on Key’s moral compass ”

  1. Paul 2

    Emmerson has also critiqued Key’s priorities.
    Such a shame the editors and journalists in the msm don’t hold truth to power like the cartoonists.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/news-cartoons/news/article.cfm?c_id=500814&objectid=11506978

  2. Tracey 3

    I think he is genuinely bewildered cos he has been sending money…

    I noted on RNZ yesterday he said this wasn’t new it was just making the telly… SO he has known of its extent for some years but waited til it hit the telly and people saw what he already knew…. then helped.

    That is how CEO’s operate. Not Leaders of Countries.

  3. save NZ 4

    His moral compass is the dollar bill.

  4. Tiger Mountain 5

    is the PM really guided by the Penguin’s polling and Crosby Textor memos rather than some degree of human decency? well he has not “ruled that in, or ruled that out…” so New Zealanders can take it as a yes

  5. Detrie 7

    Keys personality, being a strong expressive [Artisan/entertainer] type, always wanting to be the centre of attention.This persona usually means they are lacking in empathy, diplomacy and leadership qualities. (As he said, our most ‘casual’ prime minister).

    Remember he got the PM job because he said the right things to the right people and was a good showman with a good visual image. Not understanding people, outside opinions are therefore big drivers for him. It fully explains why he does what he does.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keirsey_Temperament_Sorter

  6. Clean_power 8

    The reality is the PM will never be liked by the average The Standard reader, regardless of what he does or fails to do. He is a National Party PM, that’s why.

    • Gangnam Style 8.1

      i’m happy to be proved wrong in my assessment of john key, have yet to be. i have never been a fan, true, i have always found him to be totally lacking in substance. the hair pulling thing was probably our closest look into the ‘real john key’, whereas ‘john key #1 all black’ doesn’t come across as real at all.

      our cartoonist have always been spot on, on any govt, they are still doing their jobs. thank you nz cartoonists!

    • McFlock 8.2

      And that will always be the position of a moral vacuum, because you guys just don’t understand concepts like “decency” or “ethics”.

    • lprent 8.3

      …average The Standard reader?

      No such thing. Last month there were more than 54 thousand unique humans who read the site according to google analytics (and ignoring an untold number of robots). They did just under 168 thousand sessions spending an average time of 5 minutes and 25 seconds per session, and on average reading 2.85 pages per session. Those are the averages.

      When you dig into the detailed stats, you find the more interesting divergence that makes the whole idea of using “average” something that only a mathematical idiot would use about this site.

      For instance 45 thousand sessions were from a person who read the site only once during August. And just over 60 thousand sessions were from people who read the site less than 6 times during August. They read about 1.2 pages per session on average.

      But on the other extreme more than 51 thousand sessions were from the group of people who did more than 200 sessions within the month, and on average read just less than 4 pages per session.

      78 thousand of the sessions lasted less than 10 seconds and read 85 thousand pages in total. But 18.5 thousand sessions lasted between 10 minutes and half an hour and they read more than 100 thousand pages. 7.1 thousand session lasted more than half and hour and they read 88 thousand pages.

      In other words because the wings of the graph are so extreme, that the “average” reader simply doesn’t exist. Averages are only useful if you have a near symmetrical bell shaped curve. We don’t have anything like that level of symmetry.

      Which roughly translated means that to me you appear to be severely deficient in your understanding of basic statistics.

      I suspect that what you are actually talking about is that small minority of readers who also comment regularly on site. That is probably largely a group of a few thousand of our readers who comment regularly during a month. They definitely don’t reflect the ‘average’ reader…

    • Tracey 8.4

      That is ridiculous. If it makes you sleep better to consider that I only have a problem with his behaviour because I don’t like his position per se, knock yourself out. Please, knock yourself out.

      I dont like his behaviour. His lying, his dumbing down, his sexism, his shallow ness, his lack of compassion and his measure of “success”. I don’t know John key. i don’t hate John Key.I consider he completely lacks leadership skills, which a country needs.

      I also criticised some of Helen Clark’s behaviours, and David Lange’s…

      Perhaps you are projecting? You hate any Labour leader (especially if PM) so you assume all on the lef thate anyone who leads the national party.

  7. Sabine 9

    NZ in a nutshell.

  8. ianmac 10

    Helen had a central clear philosophy and acted accordingly.
    John has no declared central philosophy so is able to point in whatever direction Farrar says. (Remember Key’s first and most hearty thanks on 2014 Election night, went to Farrar.)

  9. Ad 11

    Little winner on points in August and September. Relief!

    It makes the inevitable Rugby World Cup September poll bounce somewhat bearable.

  10. timbo 12

    I thought that Andrew Little did a great job early on in the House (I think it was the “cut the crap” speech), in calling the PM on his “money trader ethics”. It made a powerful point, I thought – the PM’s ethics are utilitarian and based on the law of the jungle. Opposition parties should keep calling attention to that. Using the phrase “money trader ethics” will help it to stick.

    Recently, someone posted on The Standard an excerpt from the Wikipedia summary of the book Liar’s Poker, which describes the world of Wall Street during John Key’s early years there. I should probably read the book, but I found this paragraph instructive:

    “the trading pit required neither finesse nor advanced financial knowledge, but, rather, the ability and desire to exploit others’ weaknesses, to intimidate others into listening to traders and salesmen, and the ability to spend hours a day screaming orders under high pressure situations. [This worldview is aptly described] as “The Law of the Jungle.””

    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar%27s_Poker)

    I would be interested in watching the PM evade a parliamentary question along these lines:

    “To the Right Hon PM. Is he aware of the work of Alasdair McIntyre on the narratives underlying ethical commitments? What is the underlying basis of his own ethical commitment?”

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      the PM’s ethics are utilitarian

      Not really as they’re missing the bit about minimising pain and damage. He really doesn’t give a shit about how much pain and damage he causes in making the rich richer.

      • Tracey 12.1.1

        and his measure of the “greater good” may be skewed by the circles he move sin

      • Thom Pietersen 12.1.2

        John Key really does believe he is part of wealth creation – you have to frame it from his position – this is why he comes across as genuine to a lot of people. In his mind he is.

        Unfortunately he is wrong. Banking is generally based on bad or skewed science mixed with idealism

    • Macro 12.2

      There is a big difference between “utilitarianism” and “money trader” ethics..

      utilitarianism is generally held to be the view that the morally right action is the action that produces the most good. There are many ways to spell out this general claim. One thing to note is that the theory is a form of consequentialism: the right action is understood entirely in terms of consequences produced. What distinguishes utilitarianism from egoism has to do with the scope of the relevant consequences. On the utilitarian view one ought to maximize the overall good — that is, consider the good of others as well as one’s own good.

      http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/utilitarianism-history/#IdeUti
      cf
      http://www.traderrach.com/forex-market/ethics-and-exploitation-in-the-foreign-exchange-market/

  11. Steve Wrathall 14

    How is it moral to open the floodgates to queue jumpers, thereby incentivising more migrants to risk their children’s lives in perilous ocean crossings?

    • McFlock 14.1

      1: “queue jumpers”. “Queue” implies everyone will have their needs met if only they’re patient enough. There is no “queue”. Only a wall, and a sadly inadequate quota.

      2: “incentivising more migrants”. Yes, because providing a glimmer of hope to refugees living (dying) in a war zone might encourage them to try to save them and their children. Another option, of course, would be to formalise refugee relocation and distribution rather than only doing it once they have made the perilous crossing.

      In other words, we could take the “perilous” out of “perilous ocean crossings”, make it a genuine (and short term) “queue” rather than a woefully inadequate quota, and more accurately describe them as “refugees from war”. Your preference for doing nothing while dead toddlers are picked up off the beach seems to be an unimaginative and heartless perspective on the problem.

    • weka 14.2

      refugees aren’t queue jumpers. They are people literally fleeing for their lives. How can you not understand that?

    • Tracey 14.3

      Are you suggesting the PM has made a moral decision? I find that very hard to believe

  12. Steve Wrathall 15

    The family of Aylan Kurdi were not “living in a war zone”. They had been living in Turkey for 3 years, had applied for and been refused Canadian asylum. The father (according to his sister, who is in Canada) wanted to get his teeth done. He spent 5000 euros on people smugglers, but nothing on life jackets. Why wasn’t he helping man the front lines against ISIS, rather than leaving it to Kurdish women?

    • joe90 15.1

      So you read Gellers hate site.

    • Tracey 15.2

      well you will be pleased to know he has been well and truly punished for his selfishness, his 2 children and wife are dead.

      • joe90 15.2.1

        I’m no fan of the solo passion mob but Cresswell has it right.

        http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2015/09/the-true-story-of-aylan-kurdi.html

        Also, this Canadian tory rag puts a few things right

        http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/03/who-is-to-blame-for-the-drowning-of-alan-kurdi

        • Tracey 15.2.1.1

          some things are worth quoting in full

          The ultimate injustice one can commit to Aylan Kurdi and his family is to omit the parts of his story which explain why he ended up dead on the beach, ]or to make up stories of your own]. The details matter, so please read and share:
          1) Abdullah Kurdi, the father, was detained for 5 months in Air Force Intelligence in Damascus. While in detention, he was tortured and his teeth were pulled out. He had to sell his shop in Damascus in order to bribe the officers to let him out. This cost him 5,000,000 Syrian Liras (around $25,000)
          2) After he bribed his way out of jail, Abdullah fled to Aleppo with his wife and sons, Alyan and Ghalib. The situation in Aleppo became dangerous due to the constant aerial bombardment, so he fled again to Kobani, his hometown.
          3) When ISIS attacked Kobani last year, the family could no longer live in their hometown, so they fled to Turkey. Once in Turkey, the Turkish government did not provide them with assistance, so they paid almost $6,000 to secure 4 spots on a rubber dingy to the Greek island of Kos.
          4) While on the boat, rough waters caused the boat to flip. The lifejackets they were given were fake. His sons and wife all drowned in front of his eyes, in his arms.
          5) Kurdi had applied in June for refuge to Canada, sponsored by Abdullah’s Canadian-resident sister Tima, but was rejected. After Aylan’s photo became a media story, he was reportedly offered citizenship to Canada. But he doesn’t want to go to Canada or Europe anymore. He says he will go bury his family in Kobani and stay there to fight against ISIS, because everything has been taken away from him and he has “nothing to live for.”
          So if the world wants to no more Aylans on the beach, someone needs to do some combination of the following based on above:
          (1) stop torture and arbitrary detention by the Assad regime,
          [(1a) stop Iran & Russia arming the Assad regime,]
          (2) stop the regime’s aerial bombardment,
          (3) stop ISIS,
          (4) make travelling to Europe safe,
          (5) … accept more refugees.

          Oh, and those other blogs arguing that other Middle Eastern nations and the Gulf States should accept refugees from the civil war?

          They do.

          Lebanon has 1.3 million Syrians. Jordan, Egypt & Iraq have 800,000 between them. And Syrians fleeing to the Gulf States are not defined as refugees by UNHCR. But there are quite a lot. Around 500,000 at last count”

          Oh and by the way, the idea that an Immigration department , in canada, or any country wouldn’t lie or fuck up a situation is a joke (espesh when deaths have occurred). The number of times NZIS has told me that they never got something and I have proof they did is scary… I am sure Canada is the same.

    • Paul 15.3

      You appear to have no empathy.

    • adam 15.4

      Steve Wrathall, One should read widely before commenting here. Otherwise you look as you are speaking the words of the deceiver, or a braggart. I’m totally confused which one are you, both or something trollish?

    • Thom Pietersen 15.5

      Living in Turkey as a refugee would be no fun. Your life is on hold, you have no rights. Having teeth rotting out of your face is not nice, your jaw can rot and you can have constant blood infections – these little things urge you toward extreme risk for a better life.

      You know, we’re not all fighters you fucking keyboard warrior, the coward gene helps survival and provides tolerance (you go and bounce around with bullets shithead, I have unfortunately, and cried like a fucken baby), I’m sure this poor man made the best choice possible, the people smugglers will not have given a shit – do you really think he meant to send his family to doom?

      Cunt!

  13. McFlock 16

    Oh piss off, Wrathall:

    After moving between various towns to escape ISIL,[7] his family settled in Turkey for three years.[8] The family returned to Kobanî at the beginning of 2015, but returned to Turkey in June 2015 when ISIL attacked Kobanî again. After two failed attempts to take the family to the Greek island of Kos, Kurdi’s father arranged a third attempt because he needed new teeth which were too expensive for him in Turkey;[9][10] he therefore made the decision to move to Europe, which ended in tragedy.[7]

    1: “get his teeth done”. More minimisation of “get new teeth”.
    2: Turkey for three years: even if they hadn’t left Kobani (heard of that town before?) just this year, have you any idea what life might be like as a Kurdish refugee in Turkey, with or without teeth? Obviously not.
    3: “Why wasn’t he helping man the front lines against ISIS”? Because there are brave manly-men like you who are willing to do it, even if you personally might be sadly prevented from single-handedly defeating ISIS because of being stuck about 16,000km behind the front lines. Such a shame that. /sarc

    • Tracey 16.1

      Wrathall was against us sending troops to Iraq, right? I mean, otherwise he would be there fighting and not posting here?

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