Bombs Away?

Written By: - Date published: 5:00 pm, September 12th, 2014 - 72 comments
Categories: democracy under attack, election 2014, greens, making shit up, Media, Politics - Tags: , , ,

So after however many days, months and years spent tripping Labour at every turn, it now appears that the National Party’s dedicated ‘dirty network’ is switching attention to the Greens.

Last month (as reported by NRT and Chris Trotter) , an outfit calling itself ‘The Opinion Partnership’ appeared to be launching a negative advertising campaign targeting the Green Party.

Today we have the Greens (and Labour) seeking to contain Corin Dann’s spin on TVNZ that suggested they will align with the National Party. That line seems to have launched off the back of a column written by John Armstrong on Wednesday.

Now, of course it screams of the dirty politics tactics that Nicky Hager outlined in his book. But short of some leaked email communication, can the genesis of this particular play be traced back beyond Armstrong’s column?

That as it may be, can I suggest you re-read Trotter’s updated piece on ‘The Opinion Partnership’ if you haven’t already?

And if you are of the left, quit the negative fucking arm flailing over claims the Green Party are going to jump into bed with the National Party and get digging instead. Thanks.

72 comments on “Bombs Away?”

  1. toad 1

    Bizarre thing about this sort of bullshit is that the chances of the Labour Party forming a confidence and supply agreement with the Nats are higher than the Greens doing it.

    For the Greens, any Coalition or C&S agreement is not in the hands of the Leadership or even the Caucus – it has to be ratified by the membership at a Party Special General Meeting. And that is just not going to happen for the Nats, whose policies are toxic to the vast majority of Greens.

      • Bunji 1.1.1

        It regularly amazes me how little the political punditry understand political parties.

        They had it that the Labour Caucus would kick Cunliffe out against the party’s wishes – both when the party would immediately vote him back, and in that 3 month pre-election period that would have been electoral suicide (both with voters and with the party troops not doing the leg work with disenchantment). Where do they come up with this stuff? It’s certainly not thought through.

        And the Greens membership backing a C&S deal with National?

        Do they actually engage their brains?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1

          Of course they engage their brains.

          Their brains tell them that if they’re no longer prepared to put up with this shit, there’ll be another idealistic dupe along in a minute to take their job.

          Super injunctions are so super, simply splendid, sucks eh.

        • mickysavage 1.1.1.2

          Agreed.

          Some of my best friends are greens. They would rather drive spikes through their eyes than go with National.

          Methinks Bill is right and there has been some dirty politics on the part of the media happening.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.3

          It regularly amazes me how little the political punditry understand political parties.

          It’s either that or they’re spinning for all they’re worth. Personally, I think it’s the spin.

          • AmaKiwi 1.1.1.3.1

            If a media story says the Budapest soccer league is falling apart, I accept it because I don’t follow Hungarian soccer.

            By destroying local governments we have been made powerless in even the most minor, local, political decisions. We live under a rotating parliamentary dictatorship.

            It is wise not to waste your time thinking critically about things over which you have no control, like Hungarian soccer and NZ governance. Simpler to accept the spin.

    • Weepus beard 1.2

      Why is anyone even talking confidence and supply with National?

      It’s not time to wave the white flag just yet, is it?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1

        Anyone who’s talking confidence and supply with the National Party must be investigated by the Royal Commission. Their complicity is seditious.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1

          To expand a little: this National Party filth machine is a constitutional crisis, akin to a government of foreign spies. The ballot box is one of the tools to prosecute the scum, and it will be inadequate unless enforced by the other pillars of government.

          If the police (and/or other judicial arms) do not have powers of arrest in respect of the Prime Minister’s crimes, the next Parliament needs to address that problem.

          • Weepus beard 1.2.1.1.1

            The ballot box is one of the tools we have to hold them to account but I wonder if there are enough of us to make it work.

            My biggest concern is the Kiwi male, only 18% of whom identify with Labour right now.

            I was speaking to a fellow parent from my kids’ school (dec 5) the other day at a BBQ I put on for the kids and I felt sure he would be a Labour or Green voter but as the conversation went on it was clear he was worried that National would not get in.

            Another parent who I knew would be a National voter because he and his brothers inherited and worked the family business wondered about the relevance of “Dirty Politics” and specifically whether anybody read blog sites at all so why was it such a big deal? I said to him: Journalists read blog sites and the public read journalists.

            I can understand the second one being conservative but it’s the first one which is a worry. This is the sort of working Kiwi bloke (ok, so he’s management, but still a one income family) who for some reason has bought into the government spiel even though I’m sure he and his kids would be better off with a Labour led government.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Anecdata, although a general rule is that the National Party’s relentless perfidy relies on ignorance, the Dunning Kruger effect, and confirmation bias; there is an increasing body of evidence that a good strategy to educate right wing dupes is an emotional rather than fact-based approach, since they lack the cognitive ability to absorb the latter.

              • KJT

                And the previous perfidy of Labour, especially in the 80’s.

              • AmaKiwi

                “there is an increasing body of evidence that a good strategy to educate right wing dupes is an emotional rather than fact-based approach”

                The emotion is FEAR.

                I worry about saying this so close to the election, but National could enhance their chances by announcing a terrorist attack is imminent.

                If you see NZ troops guarding the Beehive and Harbour Bridge, remember you read it first on The Standard.

    • word 1.3

      @Toad. Well I think its utter bullshit that you think labour would go into a C&S with a most insidiously corrupt and toxic national party, thats just a load of rubbish.

  2. karol 2

    Well said, Bill.

    Too much in-fighting as the result of a couple of MSM journalists running with wedge politics lines.

    Time to get back tot he real struggles – against those NAct two trackers.

    Got my easy vote card today – let’s get back to getting everyone out to vote and…

    Keep calm and vote left – whatever that means to each person.

    And the real story is, The NActs and Key see their support slipping. Why else is Key going for only half an hour – minus the ad breaks – for the final leaders debate?

  3. Deb Kean 3

    “Today we have the Greens seeking to contain Corin Dann’s spin on TVNZ that suggested they will align with the National Party.”
    And yet they probably will align with National, which is one of the many reasons why the Greens will not ever again be getting my vote.

    • Weepus beard 3.1

      Hang on Deb, while I understand the frustration, Bill has asked us not to fight and I agree with him on that point.

    • weka 3.2

      “And yet they probably will align with National,”

      🙄

      • outofbed 3.2.1

        “And yet they probably will align with National,”
        I am one of “they”
        And we won’t

        • Corokia 3.2.1.1

          damn right outofbed, we won’t!
          I’d put my money on Deb Kean being a troll and not someone who has been a Green voter in the past.

          • Deb Kean 3.2.1.1.1

            “I’d put my money on Deb Kean being a troll and not someone who has been a Green voter in the past.”
            I’d put my money on your being an arrogant male. Who gave you the right to call me a troll just because I don’t trust the (blue) Greens?
            I did vote Green, but no more, and one reason was Russel Norman and Metiria Turei proudly annoucing in 2011 that they’d support National on confidence and supply.

            • Corokia 3.2.1.1.1.1

              The troll label was speculation on my part, I am highly suspicious of those who claim to be/have been Green supporters BUT totally misrepresent the Greens position
              You did it again. -“Russel Norman and Metiria Turei proudly annoucing in 2011 that they’d support National on confidence and supply”.
              CRAP! That never happened. The Greens have always opposed giving confidence and supply to National, except in the 2011 election, when they it said it was unlikely but didn’t rule it out.
              (and you lost your bet)

            • Corokia 3.2.1.1.1.2

              “And yet they probably will align with National” -NO, the Greens did not say that.
              Here is Metiria making it quite clear on Firstline
              “Unfortunately in a campaign you can’t always control how the story is told, so for those asking, let’s be clear: nothing has changed.
              Our 100% focus this election is to change the government in order to achieve a cleaner, fairer, smarter New Zealand.
              Three more years of National would be disastrous for our environment, our children and economy and we need to change the government”

              If you Deb Kean, expect to be believed you could try not making stuff up.

              • karol

                Thanks for the quote from the interview, Corokia – will add it to my post on the Nats two track strategy.

              • Deb Kean

                “f you Deb Kean, expect to be believed you could try not making stuff up.”
                I made nothing up, so try again. Conveniently for you, you don’t give a link, just a quote from Metitiria, who is rumoured to be a good person, unlike Norman, so possibly she’s telling the truth. I would not count on it but. You’re going to get to screech troll at me even louder when I tell you that the main reason why I will never vote Green is their abortion policy, which sucks and blows.

    • BM 3.3

      Personally, I find the new direction they’re taking quite appealing.

      I’m still voting National, but if the greens are willing to spend the next 3 years working under National, I’d be willing to flick a vote their way in 2017.

    • Vaughan 3.4

      The day the Greens align with a traitor like ShonKey, or sell their political soul to a Party as corrupt and toxic to People and the Planet as National, is the day I and many fellow Green Party Members + Supporters, eat their hemp shoes. . . It just won’t happen Deb.

      NZH = Right Wing Spin / Propaganda Machine – don’t believe their hype, or their polls. The only poll that matters is on September 20!

  4. Rich 4

    And just now we have Len Brown’s documents released by the council to the Herald about the time of his affair, yes AFFAIR.

    Now at least we know what this is all about. SEX, don’t let the plebs have sex!

    But guess what Herald readers, the Herald did not get what they wanted. Ms Chuang did not travel with Len to China! Yes China, that’s where Ms Chuang is from, they must be shocked. Damn it write the story anyway.

    • karol 4.1

      Yeah. Amazing – headlined as Breaking News.

    • sockpuppet 4.2

      WTF ?

      • Rich 4.2.1

        You want a translation? The herald put an OIA in expecting to get confirmation of a suspicion that Ms Chuang travelled with Len Brown on council money to China. But instead they got confirmation that this did not happen. But instead of slinking off without telling anyone they wrote the story anyway, trying to give it traction by mentioning that it was at the same time as the AFFAIR.

        Now there is also an equivalence here between Brown having an affair and what is happening on Key’s watch, which most of us would view as much, much worse.

        And that is a peek into the thought processes of these morons, unintended as always but there nevertheless.

  5. What bill and what toad says!
    There are some dim witted commentators about making all kinds of unrealistic assertions.
    Nat + Green is just not going to happen.
    That is not to say that the Greens not will seek to advance their Policies – no matter what.

  6. weka 6

    Wayne Mapp posted this comment on Weds,

    There will be shortly a post of mine on Pundit where I discuss the convergence of the Greens, Labour and National on dairy farming practices in respect of clean water.

    If you actually take the time to read the polices of each of the parties you will be surprised at the degree of convergence. I did not expect this level of convergence, but I was twigged to this by the Greens announcements in the weekend which seemed surprisingly similar to that of the Nats earlier last week. The Greens have an 18 page paper on the issue.

    NRT: Fundamental incomprehension

    That comment was on a repost of NRT’s response to Armstrong’s Herald article promo-ing the GP and National. Worth a reread for those people that want to understand the GP position better.

  7. Tautoko Viper 7

    Just a thought.
    Wayne Eagleson refused an OIA request for briefings to bloggers saying that the OIA didn’t cover them.
    https://fyi.org.nz/request/1911/response/6746/attach/3/12092014110457%200001.pdf

    But, but, but if Cam Slater is now and was considered to be a journalist…….

    • karol 7.1

      interesting.

    • mike s 7.2

      Yeah interesting. In my opinion the wording in the request needs to be more specific also.

      For example maybe change the wording to something along the lines of:

      “Any communications in the form of emails, faxes, sms text messages, documents, files or any other form of digital or paper based communications, sent, transferred, or in any other way forwarded from the Prime Minister’s office to journalist Cameron Slater, or to the following mobile phone numbers… (list numbers), or to any of the following email addresses..(list slaters known emails such as whaleoil, etc) during the period starting 1 April, 2014 and finishing 30 April, 2014”

      They like things specific

  8. just saying 8

    Labour is way more likely to go into coalition with National.
    In a sense they made that particular faustian pact a long time ago.

    I think there will be a Labour, Green and (god forbid) NZF government with more than a knife-edge of a majority because of four or more Internet Mana MPs as their voiciferous outsiders, come Sunday week. What I’m hearing all over the place is at odds with what the media are depicting as the mood of the nation.

    Unfortunately, we’ll probably have Colin Craig take over from the Hairdo.

    Panic is counter to any NACT script. The bullshit is dependent on a cool delivery.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Labour is way more likely to go into coalition with National.
      In a sense they made that particular faustian pact a long time ago.

      Exactly.

      Unfortunately, we’ll probably have Colin Craig take over from the Hairdo.

      I still think that it is unlikely that CONS will get to 5.0%.

      • Lanthanide 8.1.1

        I agree. I think they’ll end up something like 3.8% – 4.5%

        Colin said they knew where they were getting their support from – half from National and the other half largely from NZFirst and Labour.

        As the polls generally over-sample National on the order of 4-5%, so too will this over-sampling affect the Conservatives.

        Still, National are going to be kicking themselves for not lowering the threshold to 4%.

    • word 8.2

      The labour of “long ago” is not the labour of “today”
      I disagree that labour would go into a C&S with national, just like the Greens wont.

  9. locus 9

    I would trust people and parties to behave in line with their track record. The Greens and Labour are not parties that will let their supporters down.

    Theres an inherent goodness and intelligence in the social and environmental values of the left. These values are clearly not evident in the track record and dirty politics of key and his back scratching mates.

    You only have to look at the disaster of the Lib Dems in UK to realise you sign your party’s death warrant when you align with toxic politics and neolib dogma.

    • karol 9.1

      It’s also good to see, as reported by Andrea Vance this arvo, that some Greens and Labour people were talking last night:

      Campaigning in Napier today, Labour leader David Cunliffe said he believed the Greens were targeting “economic National voters who have environmental sympathies”.

      Senior staff from both parties talked today, and he was given “reassurances” that the Greens had “every intention of working co-operatively in a Labour-led government”.

  10. nadis 10

    “…Labour are not parties that will let their supporters down”

    Comedy gold.

  11. One Anonymous Bloke 11

    How to bury a story, 101.

    Any public interest in protecting sources must be further diminished when there is evidence that a personal vendetta appears to be driving (Slater’s reports),” Justice Asher said.

    “Further, where the material provided by the sources appears to have been unlawfully obtained, that is a further factor lessening the public interest in the free flow of information.”

    The justice said the blog published by Slater “are extreme and vindictive and have the hallmarks of a private feud.”

    Justice Asher also states that the sources used by Slater came “hard-drive and other documents (that) appear to have been obtained illegitimately.”

    Slater has therefore been ordered to comply with discovery requirements in the substantive defamation hearing ahead and must pay Blomfield’s costs.

  12. BM 12

    Labour’s about as popular with the masses as weeping genital sores.

    The greens know this, hence this sounding out of National as a potential coalition partner.

    • weka 12.1

      BM, just fuck off with the troling lies. You know what you have said is wrong and yet here you are saying it again and again and again.

    • Kat 12.2

      yuk BM!

      Obviously you are either a National party/ Act/Slater troll.

      Oh how this lovely country has been smothered by the evil obnoxious politics of John key.

    • Tautoko Viper 12.3

      You are all class, BM!!!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.4

      Don’t be so hard on poor BM. It was only a brief moment of cognitive dissonance ago that Dear Leader was going to govern alone.

  13. Deb Kean 13

    “The greens know this, hence this sounding out of National as a potential coalition partner.”

    What a creative (but ultimately nasty) excuse.

  14. lurgee 14

    I think I’ve said before, that even if the numbers add up to some dubious grand coalition of the left, the Greens may prefer not to be part of it. Mitigating National’s nastiness through constructive opposition may be preferable to being part of a shambles of a government.

    • BM 14.1

      Exactly, Labour is a dead man walking, doesn’t make sense to breath life back into that political corpse.
      Let labour die a natural death and then claim the mantle as the main opposition party.

      It’s what I’d do, if I was calling the shots for the greens.

    • weka 14.2

      having said it before doesn’t make it any more true. It would be exceptional circumstances where the GP chose opposition against National over being in govt with Labour. So exceptional I can’t think what they circumstances would be.

  15. Local Kiwi 15

    BM the paid assasin telling lies again eh!
    Get a real job.

    Come Moday when your boss Key has the revalations of him being involved in a plot to secretly help his rich foriegn mates rape and destroy our economy to take it over without a shot fired.

    Kim.com revenge day yeah!!!!!

  16. dave 16

    these national party goons at it again every time i see those team key goons i just vomit
    russell winstone cunliffe for god sake work something out don’t let the criminals get rewarded any government but national

  17. crocodill 17

    Infiltrated by trolls and a dirty media, huh? I emailed The Greens earlier this week with concerns and they sent me a standard reply this morning (which did not answer my questions directly). I accept that a volunteer is not going to be authorised to address the public directly, but they are authorised to say what the Leadership/Membership tell them to say. So either my email was intercepted by the CIA and it is evidence of wide-scale random hacking, or there are no trolls, no bad media, just The Greens being reckless and deceitful. If that’s the case, well, I’m not going to tell the membership what they should do to their leaders. Here read it in full and then tell me that they have categorically eliminated working with a corrupt National party:

    Thank you for your email.

    There has been some confusion as a result of last night’s TV One news story.

    To be clear, our goal in this election is to change the Government in order to achieve a cleaner, fairer, smarter New Zealand. The best way to advance good green change is for the Greens to be in Government.

    Our intention is to form a new government with Labour. So a party vote for the Greens is a vote for a big Green presence in a new government with Labour.
    The Greens have momentum in this election. Last night’s TVNZ poll had us on 14%, the highest we have ever been in that poll. More New Zealanders than ever are saying they are planning to vote Green.

    We have always said it would be highly unlikely that we would give confidence and supply support to a National government. Three more years of National will be bad for our environment, our kids, and our economy.

    If, in the unfortunate event National does end up the Government, an even bigger Green Party will continue to be a strong and effective voice opposition that holds them to account and stops them from doing bad things and, wherever possible, achieving good green change, like we did by securing the $300 million home insulation scheme and national cycleway in 2008.

    Again, thanks for your email and I hope this clarifies our position.

    Party Administration Team

    Phone 04 801 5102 | Email green.party @greens.org.nz | Web http://www.greens.org.nz
    Level 2, 17 Garrett Street, Wellington

    Authorised by Jon Field, Level 2, 17 Garrett Street, Wellington
    This message contains information that is confidential and which may be subject to privilege. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately by telephone or by return email. Thank you

    The bold was done by me. So tell me this, am I a troll for being concerned that The Greens find it “unlikely” that they will support a corrupt government? Unlikely? No, listen, there is only one answer to that question and that answer is no, NO we will not enable or support a National government just to win an extra cycle way or to put extra insulation into the homes of the almost poor while National go about creating poverty and generally behaving like psychopaths.

    So you direct me to the bit about being in opposition? I direct you to the bit about The Greens thinking they can influence psychopaths by enabling them. They know exactly what “unlikely” means. It means if Labour eat up most of the useful Left vote and The Greens become the possible-but-not-quite-senior party of the Left, they will go with National to form a government. How would that even work? Either you work with Labour in that situation or you don’t. Unlikely? What, they’re telling us Labour have said they won’t be a junior partner? Holy Christ. They know the only way they can do anything, is by being in power – see first bold.

    The Greens are correct in saying support for them has never been higher, but to prematurely grab at power now, and abandon the people and their principles, that’s just career politicians thinking of themselves. Surely it would be better for our leaders to increase the trust they have with the electorate by not compromising with people who want them effectively eliminated. Ask yourself, why if the Greens are on roughly 15%, in unfavourable polls, would they not come out and say NO, F-Off corrupt National. Why would they chose the normalisation of Dirty Politics over drawing a line in the sand and saying, no, NOT acceptable.

    Numbers aside, the kind of thinking the Greens are using betrays the Left. Pragmatism my ass. Love NZ? By enabling abusers? That would be like the Mother who enables an abusive Father to damage the kids because the alternative is having them living on the street? Yeah tough decision, except I would rather live on the street in community than hide in suburbia enabling hate and fear.

    Vote for enabling wholesale abuse of the powerless? You must be joking. Don’t tell me to shut up and start digging. I’ll smack you with the spade.

  18. reason 18

    crocodill fears & tears.

    The greens will go into government with national if the nats change most if not all of their policy. Pass me the Tui’s when that happens.

    Anyway this false impression against the greens may pick them up soft national voters with morals who just cant bring themselves to vote for Team Sleaze 🙂

  19. Sable 19

    Yet more “quality” reporting from the MSM in NZ. Best thing anyone could do is simply refuse to read their rags in either hard or softcopy. They only have a voice if we are all willing to listen.

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