Boots Theory: Numbers are meaningless when families are living in cars
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- Date published:
10:59 am, October 5th, 2014 - 137 comments
Categories: cost of living, Economy, employment, housing, jobs, Media, minimum wage, poverty -
Tags: charity, economic growth, house prices, inequality, narrative, overcrowding, poverty, rent, social welfare
(Originally posted at Boots Theory. You can follow Stephanie on Twitter.)
Housing affordability was an issue in the election – but the discussion was derailed by arguments about the intricacies of capital gains tax and exactly how many hundreds of thousands of dollars constitutes “affordable” house prices.
This is the real story, which is now getting some post-election coverage in the Herald.
Salvation Army Manukau community ministries director Pam Hughes said some families were now paying more than 70 per cent of their incomes on rent, but could not keep up payments and came to her service in crisis.
“We are seeing an increase in families in vehicles. Families in cars have been increasing over the last three or four months, simply because there isn’t enough affordable accommodation for them,” she said.
…
The Tuuu family – mum, dad and their six children – have been living in a van for a week because they cannot find a house. …
Tamasailau Tuuu, his wife and their children, aged from 15 to 3-months-old, were doubling up with another couple and their three children in a three-bedroom house after their landlord sold their own rented home in Clendon, South Auckland, two months ago. But their friends asked them to move out.
“She was worried about her tenancy, and the neighbours were complaining about my baby crying at night, and the house was overcrowded and her kids needed their own privacy,” Mrs Tuuu explained.
That’s right – before they had to start living in their car, the eight members of the Tuuu family were sharing a three-bedroomed house with five other people.
Tamasailau Tuuu is a fulltime worker.
Meanwhile, on the Herald’s economy pages, it’s all about the numbers, and how “there’s something for everyone” in a recent Statistics NZ report on income:
A defender of the status quo can point to a 6.2 per cent rise in the average household income from all sources over the year to June 2014. A critic of the status quo can point to a rise of 1.7 per cent in median hourly earnings for wage and salary earners over the same period, or just 0.1 per cent after adjusting for inflation. The year before median hourly earnings had risen 3.5 per cent.
There is an interesting discussion to be had about the way numbers can be used (or manipulated) one way or another depending on the argument you’re pushing. In the run-up to the election, National were trotting out numbers all over the place – more tertiary students than ever before (don’t mention population growth)! Wages the highest they’ve ever been (ignore inflation)!
But there’s something obscene about the way the economic story gets framed: the figures on a page, the points on an index, the number of dollars someone can swap for a number of different-coloured dollars.
I’m sure the following statement will raise sneers; the right love to paint the left as silly ingenues who don’t understand big, serious economics. But I cannot comprehend a worldview which says “all is well, for the numbers tell us so” while families are living in cars, workers are losing their jobs, and children are dying from preventable diseases.
More and more people I know – comparatively well-off people – have being speaking out post-election about setting up automatic payments to charity organisations, or emailing journalists who write stories like the one above to offer direct assistance to the people whose plight makes it into the media. It’s a compassionate response. It does some real good. But it’s also a sign that we have fundamentally failed as a society.
Private charity isn’t even an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff. It’s a bandaid over a gaping wound. It can’t even begin to cover the damage caused by the decades-long erosion of our social welfare system. It does nothing to prevent that damage from happening in the first place. The only thing that does is a strong social welfare system, which treats people in need with dignity and respect, instead of suspicion, and is motivated by real success – not the numbers of people the Minister can claim “have moved off benefits”.
When we only talk about economic numbers and measure our success in percentage points and turnover, we erase people. And when we can’t even make sure every person has a home and can feed their kids, those numbers are meaningless, and continuing to use them is a crime.
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- Release: National’s traffic light system has child poverty reduction stallingNational’s cuts to funding for beneficiaries will once again leave children and their parents with less, Spokesperson for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni said. ...1 week ago
- Green Party will end child poverty
The Green Party will double the Best Start payment and make it available for every child under three years of age - and it will be paid for with a fair tax system. ...1 week ago - Release: Labour pledges billion-dollar medicines boostLabour will fund more medicines for more New Zealanders by investing over $1 billion of new funding into Pharmac if re-elected, Chris Hipkins announced today. ...1 week ago
- National's welfare policy is cruelThe National Party’s job seeker policy announced today is heartless. ...1 week ago
- Labour's PHARMAC Policy A PlaceboLabour has just announced a policy to increase Pharmac funding by $1billion over four years to fund additional medicines. With the current Pharmac budget of $1.2billion per year and needing a further $213million, by Minister Verrall’s own admission, just to keep up with current costs - then this is nothing ...1 week ago
- Labour's PHARMAC Policy A PlaceboLabour has just announced a policy to increase Pharmac funding by $1billion over four years to fund additional medicines. With the current Pharmac budget of $1.2billion per year and needing a further $213million, by Minister Verrall’s own admission, just to keep up with current costs - then this is nothing ...1 week ago
- Re: The Call For Corporate Manslaughter LegislationThis matter begins with the Pike River investigation being inadequate, inexplicably lengthy, and after millions of dollars, the evidence that should have been placed before the public still has not been. We have always believed that Pike River is a crime scene, and that a proper investigation would have come to that conclusion. Blue ...1 week ago
- Re: The Call For Corporate Manslaughter LegislationThis matter begins with the Pike River investigation being inadequate, inexplicably lengthy, and after millions of dollars, the evidence that should have been placed before the public still has not been. We have always believed that Pike River is a crime scene, and that a proper investigation would have come to that conclusion. Blue ...1 week ago
- Release: Labour releases New Zealand’s first climate manifestoNew Zealand faces a stark choice this election – vote for Labour to continue to confront the climate emergency with eyes wide open or bury your head in the sand alongside Christopher Luxon. ...1 week ago
- Green voice crucial for climate actionThe Green Party is today welcoming Labour’s climate manifesto, but is clear that much more will need to be done to tackle the climate crisis. ...1 week ago
- Speech: Chris Hipkins – Wellington Rally, 24 September...1 week ago
- People need a government that will build many more homesLabour’s plan to build more homes is a welcome step forward, but it lacks ambition. ...1 week ago
- Release: Supercharging public housingLabour is supercharging its plan to solve the public housing shortfall created by National, promising another 6,000 homes on top of what has already been committed says Labour Housing spokesperson Dr Megan Woods. ...1 week ago
- Release: New Super Visa for migrants’ parents and rights for Dawn Raid victimsLabour will back migrant working families by introducing a 10-year multiple-entry parents’ and grandparents’ Super Visa, and make good on the Dawn Raids apology by providing a one-off visa for overstayers who have been in the country ten years or more, Labour’s Immigration Spokesperson Andrew Little says. ...2 weeks ago
- Only the Greens will deliver a fair amnesty for overstayersThe Green Party is today welcoming Labour coming to the table to ensure an amnesty for overstayers, but only the Greens will ensure immigration settings actually reflect the reality of people who have been failed by our immigration system. ...2 weeks ago
- Climate future of communities on the line this electionGreen Party co leader James Shaw attended a South Dunedin Future street meeting today to discuss local responses to climate change. ...2 weeks ago
- Green Party calls for stronger action by Auckland Council to protect urban trees and native forestThe Green Party is calling on Auckland Council to do more to protect urban trees and housing developer Aedifice Property Group to restore and replant the native forest it cleared, and protect all the remaining trees on Ngahere Road in Pukekohe after a significant number of native trees were cut ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Ram Raids drop to two-year lowLatest Police data shows monthly ram raids have hit a two-year low, laying waste to Christopher Luxon’s false claim that there are two ram raids a day says Labour’s Police Spokesperson Ginny Andersen. ...2 weeks ago
- Every party needs to step up on school lunchesLabour has finally said it would continue free school lunches - and the Green Party is calling on every party to step up. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: School lunches on the line this electionFree and healthy school lunches will be here to stay if Labour is re-elected, guaranteeing food for our kids who need it most and significant cost saving for parents. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour commits to a new hospital for the people of Hawke’s BayThe next Labour Government will build a new hospital in Hawke’s Bay, Labour leader Chris Hipkins and Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall announced. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt changes fall short of what’s needed for migrant protectionThe Green Party will keep up the fight to support exploited migrant workers, including pushing to end single employer visas, after the government picked up Green recommendations to improve immigration settings. ...2 weeks ago
- Clean Power Payment the smartest way forward to reduce emissions and billsGreen Party co leader James Shaw visited a home in Auckland today that has been upgraded with a wide range of energy improvements, similar to those that would be supported through the Green Party’s Clean Power Payment. ...2 weeks ago
- Foreign Minister's Action – A Contempt For “Caretaker Government” ConventionThe Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta’s presence in New York today at the United Nations General Assembly is a contempt of New Zealand’s “caretaker government” convention. Despite the long-standing caretaker convention, Minister Mahuta is today at the UN to sign a highly contentious “Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction (BBNJ) Agreement”, delivering a ...2 weeks ago
- Back To Black ResponsiblyThe Pre-Election Fiscal Update Changes Everything Within an hour of this speech there is going to be a debate between the political parties that the media, under MMP, still think are the only parties that matter in this campaign. Both of those parties are riddled with inexperience, as evidenced by ...2 weeks ago
- Stop the cuts before they start – Labour launches new TV adNational and ACT's tax plans don't add up, and that means deep cuts to the public services New Zealanders rely on, says Labour Campaign Chair Megan Woods. ...2 weeks ago
- Youth justice programme expands to break cycle of offending
The successful ‘Circuit Breaker’ fast track programme designed to stop repeat youth offending was launched in two new locations today by Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis. The programme, first piloted in West and South Auckland in December last year, is aimed at children aged 10-13 who commit serious offending or continue ...17 hours ago - Major milestone with 20,000 employers using Apprenticeship BoostThe Government’s Apprenticeship Boost initiative has now supported 20,000 employers to help keep on and train up apprentices, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni announced in Christchurch today. Almost 62,000 apprentices have been supported to start and keep training for a trade since the initiative was introduced in ...19 hours ago
- Government supporting wood processing jobs and more diverse industryThe Government is supporting non-pine tree sawmilling and backing further job creation in sawmills in Rotorua and Whangarei, Forestry Minister Peeni Henare said. “The Forestry and Wood Processing Industry Transformation Plan identified the need to add more diversity to our productions forests, wood products and markets,” Peeni Henare said. ...20 hours ago
- Government backing Canterbury’s future in aerospace industryThe Government is helping Canterbury’s aerospace industry take off with further infrastructure support for the Tāwhaki Aerospace Centre at Kaitorete, Infrastructure Minister Dr Megan Woods has announced. “Today I can confirm we will provide a $5.4 million grant to the Tāwhaki Joint Venture to fund a sealed runway and hangar ...20 hours ago
- Updated forestry regulations increase council controls and require large slash removalLocal councils will have more power to decide where new commercial forests – including carbon forests – are located, to reduce impacts on communities and the environment, Environment Minister David Parker said today. “New national standards give councils greater control over commercial forestry, including clear rules on harvesting practices and ...22 hours ago
- New Zealand resumes peacekeeping force leadershipNew Zealand will again contribute to the leadership of the Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) in the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt, with a senior New Zealand Defence Force officer returning as Interim Force Commander. Defence Minister Andrew Little and Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced the deployment of New Zealand ...2 days ago
- New national direction provides clarity for development and the environmentThe Government has taken an important step in implementing the new resource management system, by issuing a draft National Planning Framework (NPF) document under the new legislation, Environment Minister David Parker said today. “The NPF consolidates existing national direction, bringing together around 20 existing instruments including policy statements, standards, and ...2 days ago
- Government shows further commitment to pay equity for healthcare workersThe Government welcomes the proposed pay equity settlement that will see significant pay increases for around 18,000 Te Whatu Ora Allied, Scientific, and Technical employees, if accepted said Health Minister Ayesha Verrall. The proposal reached between Te Whatu Ora, the New Zealand Public Service Association Te Pūkenga Here Tikanga Mahi ...2 days ago
- 100 new public EV chargers to be added to national networkThe public EV charging network has received a significant boost with government co-funding announced today for over 100 EV chargers – with over 200 charging ports altogether – across New Zealand, and many planned to be up and running on key holiday routes by Christmas this year. Minister of Energy ...3 days ago
- Safeguarding Tuvalu language and identityTuvalu is in the spotlight this week as communities across New Zealand celebrate Vaiaso o te Gagana Tuvalu – Tuvalu Language Week. “The Government has a proven record of supporting Pacific communities and ensuring more of our languages are spoken, heard and celebrated,” Pacific Peoples Minister Barbara Edmonds said. “Many ...3 days ago
- New community-level energy projects to support more than 800 Māori householdsSeven more innovative community-scale energy projects will receive government funding through the Māori and Public Housing Renewable Energy Fund to bring more affordable, locally generated clean energy to more than 800 Māori households, Energy and Resources Minister Dr Megan Woods says. “We’ve already funded 42 small-scale clean energy projects that ...6 days ago
- Huge boost to Te Tai Tokerau flood resilienceThe Government has approved new funding that will boost resilience and greatly reduce the risk of major flood damage across Te Tai Tokerau. Significant weather events this year caused severe flooding and damage across the region. The $8.9m will be used to provide some of the smaller communities and maraes ...6 days ago
- Napier’s largest public housing development comes with solarThe largest public housing development in Napier for many years has been recently completed and has the added benefit of innovative solar technology, thanks to Government programmes, says Housing Minister Dr Megan Woods. The 24 warm, dry homes are in Seddon Crescent, Marewa and Megan Woods says the whanau living ...7 days ago
- Te Whānau a Apanui and the Crown initial Deed of Settlement I Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me...Māori: Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me te Karauna te Whakaaetanga Whakataunga Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me te Karauna i tētahi Whakaaetanga Whakataunga hei whakamihi i ō rātou tāhuhu kerēme Tiriti o Waitangi. E tekau mā rua ngā hapū o roto mai o Te Whānau ...1 week ago
- Plan for 3,000 more public homes by 2025 – regions set to benefitRegions around the country will get significant boosts of public housing in the next two years, as outlined in the latest public housing plan update, released by the Housing Minister, Dr Megan Woods. “We’re delivering the most public homes each year since the Nash government of the 1950s with one ...1 week ago
- Immigration settings updatesJudicial warrant process for out-of-hours compliance visits 2023/24 Recognised Seasonal Employer cap increased by 500 Additional roles for Construction and Infrastructure Sector Agreement More roles added to Green List Three-month extension for onshore Recovery Visa holders The Government has confirmed a number of updates to immigration settings as part of ...2 weeks ago
- Poroporoaki: Tā Patrick (Patu) Wahanga HohepaTangi ngunguru ana ngā tai ki te wahapū o Hokianga Whakapau Karakia. Tārehu ana ngā pae maunga ki Te Puna o te Ao Marama. Korihi tangi ana ngā manu, kua hinga he kauri nui ki te Wao Nui o Tāne. He Toa. He Pou. He Ahorangi. E papaki tū ana ...2 weeks ago
- Renewable energy fund to support community resilience40 solar energy systems on community buildings in regions affected by Cyclone Gabrielle and other severe weather events Virtual capability-building hub to support community organisations get projects off the ground Boost for community-level renewable energy projects across the country At least 40 community buildings used to support the emergency response ...2 weeks ago
- COVID-19 funding returned to GovernmentThe lifting of COVID-19 isolation and mask mandates in August has resulted in a return of almost $50m in savings and recovered contingencies, Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Following the revocation of mandates and isolation, specialised COVID-19 telehealth and alternative isolation accommodation are among the operational elements ...2 weeks ago
- Appointment of District Court JudgeSusie Houghton of Auckland has been appointed as a new District Court Judge, to serve on the Family Court, Attorney-General David Parker said today. Judge Houghton has acted as a lawyer for child for more than 20 years. She has acted on matters relating to the Hague Convention, an international ...2 weeks ago
- Government invests further in Central Hawke’s Bay resilienceThe Government has today confirmed $2.5 million to fund a replace and upgrade a stopbank to protect the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant. “As a result of Cyclone Gabrielle, the original stopbank protecting the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant was destroyed. The plant was operational within 6 weeks of the ...2 weeks ago
- Govt boost for Hawke’s Bay cyclone waste clean-upAnother $2.1 million to boost capacity to deal with waste left in Cyclone Gabrielle’s wake. Funds for Hastings District Council, Phoenix Contracting and Hog Fuel NZ to increase local waste-processing infrastructure. The Government is beefing up Hawke’s Bay’s Cyclone Gabrielle clean-up capacity with more support dealing with the massive amount ...2 weeks ago
- Taupō Supercars revs up with Government supportThe future of Supercars events in New Zealand has been secured with new Government support. The Government is getting engines started through the Major Events Fund, a special fund to support high profile events in New Zealand that provide long-term economic, social and cultural benefits. “The Repco Supercars Championship is ...2 weeks ago
- There is no recession in NZ, economy grows nearly 1 percent in June quarterThe economy has turned a corner with confirmation today New Zealand never was in recession and stronger than expected growth in the June quarter, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. “The New Zealand economy is doing better than expected,” Grant Robertson said. “It’s continuing to grow, with the latest figures showing ...2 weeks ago
- Highest legal protection for New Zealand’s largest freshwater springsThe Government has accepted the Environment Court’s recommendation to give special legal protection to New Zealand’s largest freshwater springs, Te Waikoropupū Springs (also known as Pupū Springs), Environment Minister David Parker announced today. “Te Waikoropupū Springs, near Takaka in Golden Bay, have the second clearest water in New Zealand after ...2 weeks ago
- More support for victims of migrant exploitationTemporary package of funding for accommodation and essential living support for victims of migrant exploitation Exploited migrant workers able to apply for a further Migrant Exploitation Protection Visa (MEPV), giving people more time to find a job Free job search assistance to get people back into work Use of 90-day ...2 weeks ago
- Strong export boost as NZ economy turns cornerAn export boost is supporting New Zealand’s economy to grow, adding to signs that the economy has turned a corner and is on a stronger footing as we rebuild from Cyclone Gabrielle and lock in the benefits of multiple new trade deals, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. “The economy is ...2 weeks ago
- Funding approved for flood resilience work in Te KarakaThe Government has approved $15 million to raise about 200 homes at risk of future flooding. More than half of this is expected to be spent in the Tairāwhiti settlement of Te Karaka, lifting about 100 homes there. “Te Karaka was badly hit during Cyclone Gabrielle when the Waipāoa River ...2 weeks ago
- Further business support for cyclone-affected regionsThe Government is helping businesses recover from Cyclone Gabrielle and attract more people back into their regions. “Cyclone Gabrielle has caused considerable damage across North Island regions with impacts continuing to be felt by businesses and communities,” Economic Development Minister Barbara Edmonds said. “Building on our earlier business support, this ...2 weeks ago
- New maintenance facility at Burnham Military Camp underwayDefence Minister Andrew Little has turned the first sod to start construction of a new Maintenance Support Facility (MSF) at Burnham Military Camp today. “This new state-of-art facility replaces Second World War-era buildings and will enable our Defence Force to better maintain and repair equipment,” Andrew Little said. “This Government ...2 weeks ago
- Foreign Minister to attend United Nations General AssemblyForeign Minister Nanaia Mahuta will represent New Zealand at the 78th Session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) in New York this week, before visiting Washington DC for further Pacific focussed meetings. Nanaia Mahuta will be in New York from Wednesday 20 September, and will participate in UNGA leaders ...2 weeks ago
- Midwives’ pay equity offer reachedAround 1,700 Te Whatu Ora employed midwives and maternity care assistants will soon vote on a proposed pay equity settlement agreed by Te Whatu Ora, the Midwifery Employee Representation and Advisory Service (MERAS) and New Zealand Nurses Association (NZNO), Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. “Addressing historical pay ...3 weeks ago
- New Zealand provides support to MoroccoAotearoa New Zealand will provide humanitarian support to those affected by last week’s earthquake in Morocco, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. “We are making a contribution of $1 million to the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) to help meet humanitarian needs,” Nanaia Mahuta said. ...3 weeks ago
- Government invests in West Coast’s roading resilienceThe Government is investing over $22 million across 18 projects to improve the resilience of roads in the West Coast that have been affected by recent extreme weather, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. A dedicated Transport Resilience Fund has been established for early preventative works to protect the state ...3 weeks ago
- A layperson’s guide to the climate change policies on offer this election
We’re careening towards the iceberg of runaway climate change. Here’s a comprehensive look at what each party is promising to do about it. For the past four weeks, I’ve been having election nightmares. There have been cameos from David Seymour in fluorescent lycra, and Winston Peters in a tophat and ...2 hours ago - Napier race plays out in the shadow of Stuart and GabrielleThis much is certain: the electorate will have a new MP after October 14. Read the other battleground electorate profiles in our Hot Seats series here. At the start of the year, senior Labour minister Stuart Nash was limbering up for a tilt at a fourth term representing Napier. Before ...2 hours ago
- Napier race plays out in the shadow of Stuart and GabrielleThis much is certain: the electorate will have a new MP after October 14. Read the other battleground electorate profiles in our Hot Seats series here. At the start of the year, senior Labour minister Stuart Nash was limbering up for a tilt at a fourth term representing Napier. Before ...2 hours ago
- Bought out and sold down the river
The government subsidised pine on the East Coast for nearly 30 years, huge tracts of which ended up in the hands of foreign companies known for environmental damage ...2 hours ago - What Act will use its 'stronger brew' to do
Seymour says Act will be National’s 'economic conscience' ...2 hours ago - Vaping promises up in smoke
Vaping rates, particularly among young people, have rapidly risen. Our political parties are starting to take notice, but the next government must turn proposals into policies Opinion: I knew the message about problem vaping was getting out there when the latest National Party election flyer appeared in my letterbox last week. It ...2 hours ago - Bishop may just knock over the Minister in Hutt South
Although Labour's Ginny Andersen looks set to hold her seat, it could be tight ...2 hours ago - Disability is this year's forgotten issue
Advocates say disability issues are at a "crossroads of regress" with neglect from political parties caught up in electioneering This election cycle, burning issues such as climate change, housing and migration have taken a back seat to the new hot topics of crime and the cost of living. But ...2 hours ago - Debates pull in audience despite TV decline
New polling shows televised leaders’ debates are still reaching many eligible voters despite the decline in those watching linear television A Talbot Mills Research poll seen by Newsroom reveals just under 40 percent of eligible voters watched some or all of the first two leaders’ debates. TVNZ’s 90-minute debate on September ...2 hours ago - Bola and badass gullies: the science of East Coast erosion
Scientist Mike Marden has spent decades researching the East Coast's erosion and knows the local soils like few others – and he also knows things have to change. Aaron Smale continues a series on the slow destruction of Tairāwhiti. Everywhere he looks he can see the risks and vulnerability in the landscape. ...2 hours ago - Politicians' fear of asking for sacrifices comes at a price
This is the dancing Cossacks election of a new era. But we'll pay later. ...2 hours ago - Defining issues: 'I don’t think we have a rural divide, I really don't' – dairy f...
From the big city to the farm, we measure the rural-urban divide ...2 hours ago - Daily crossword, Wednesday 4 October
...2 hours ago - The rock stars have arrived
The one about the house where a Prime Minister supposedly locked his deranged son in the basement 212 The Terrace, Wellington! Nowadays it just looks like any of the big white wooden colonial piles next to each other on The Terrace, that long, anxious nerve centre of central Wellington ...2 hours ago - Rolling back the red wave in Whangārei: 'I've got the strongest ground game'
In a seat where we expect the unexpected, Dr Shane Reti is quietly confident: 'I've got the strongest ground game' ...2 hours ago - Dramatic change pays off for world champ sprinter
She’s just 22, but new world champion Para athlete Danielle Aitchison is already giving back – hoping to give kids with disabilities what she missed out on. Newly crowned world champion sprinter Danielle Aitchison is hurtling through a massive year of change – in the way she runs, in how ...2 hours ago - Newsroom daily quiz, Wednesday 4 October
Loading...(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions. ...3 hours ago - Even platypuses aren’t safe from bushfires – a new DNA study tracks their disappearance
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emily McColl-Gausden, Research fellow, The University of Melbourne When the Black Summer bushfires swept across eastern Australia in 2019–20, thousands of animal species lived in the path of these megafires. You’d be forgiven for thinking water-dwelling animals like platypuses were spared. ...6 hours ago - France to host Pacific defence ministers in New Caledonia ‘hub’ meetingBy Patrick Decloitre, RNZ French Pacific correspondent Defence ministers from several Asian and Pacific states are scheduled to meet in New Caledonia for two days during the first week of December, French Armed Forces in New Caledonia (FANC) commander General Yann Latil announced at the weekend. He added that French ...9 hours ago
- NEW POLL: Statistical Tie Between National And ACT In Race For Tāmaki
A new Taxpayers Union – Curia poll in the Tāmaki electorate shows ACT’s Brooke van Velden mounting a strong challenge to incumbent National MP, Simon O’Connor. The two major candidates for the seat are locked in a statistical tie with 35% of ...10 hours ago - Labour-friendly turf Christchurch throws up some testy exchanges for Carmel Sepuloni
The Cabinet Minister was challenged on her party's record on crime, the cost of living, veterans and beneficiaries during a visit to territory normally considered a Labour heartland. ...10 hours ago - Australia’s emissions must decline more steeply to reach climate commitment: OECDSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Australia’s emissions need to decline “on a much steeper trajectory” if it is to meet its declared commitment of a 43% reduction by 2030 and net zero by 2050, the Organisation of Economic Co-operation and ...10 hours ago
- Tāmaki Is Ready For A Fresh New Voice“Tonight at the Taxpayer’s Union Tāmaki debate I put forward to voters why I should be the next advocate for their community in Parliament,” says ACT Deputy Leader and Tāmaki candidate Brooke van Velden. “After 63 years being represented ...10 hours ago
- Against All Odds In Hauraki-WaikatoThe youngest candidate in this year’s election is closing in on the Labour stronghold of Hauraki-Waikato. A Whakaata Māori exclusive poll has revealed that Te Pāti Māori newcomer, Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, is just four percentage points behind Labour’s ...10 hours ago
- General election 2023: Nanaia Mahuta facing serious challenge in Hauraki-Waikato, poll showsThe incumbent MP is just four points ahead of one of the youngest candidates in this year's general election, a poll conducted for Whakaata Māori is revealing. ...11 hours ago
- ACT's Brooke van Velden turns up heat on Simon O'Connor in new pollThe ACT party candidate is locked in a statistical tie with the incumbent in the previously safe National seat of Tāmaki, a new Taxpayers' Union-Curia poll reveals. ...12 hours ago
- Simon O’Connor vs Brooke van Velden will go to wire in Tāmaki – new pollFollowing a poll last week which depicted Chlöe Swarbrick in a battle to hold on to Auckland Central, another seat in the city has been confirmed as balanced on a knife edge. In a battle among the parties of the right in Tāmaki, sitting MP Simon O’Connor leads Brooke van ...12 hours ago
- No rate hike yet, but will it rise on Melbourne Cup Day? It all depends on petrol pricesSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University If the Reserve Bank does push up interest rates again, the most likely next date is its next board meeting, on Melbourne Cup Tuesday. The November 7 meeting is especially ...13 hours ago
- The disability royal commission heard horrific stories of harm – now we must move towards repairSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jack Francis Kelly, Honorary Research Fellow, School of the Built Environment, University of Technology Sydney The Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disability has shared its final report. In this series, we unpack what the commission’s 222 ...13 hours ago
- My Sister Jill: Patricia Cornelius’ new play is a blistering post-war social and cultural commenta...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Austin, Lecturer in Theatre, The University of Melbourne Sarah Walker/MTC Emerging from one of Australia’s most enduring and significant theatrical partnerships between director Susie Dee and playwright Patricia Cornelius, My Sister Jill is a contemporary homage to George Johnston’s ...13 hours ago
- ‘I voted’ stickers not offered this election due to lack of demand – ECThere’s been a strong outpouring on social media after it emerged that polling booths wouldn’t be handing out the orange man “I voted” stickers during this year’s election. And while many have claimed this to be a new decision, the Electoral Commission told The Spinoff the stickers weren’t actually given ...14 hours ago
- Politicians Need To Break R&D Funding Election Cycle For Science To ThriveBioTechNZ has called on the next Government to leverage the use of biotechnology to transform the economy, lift the performance of New Zealand industries, and create high-value jobs. The organisation, whose members all share a desire to maximise the ...15 hours ago
- National Party Statement On Prostate Cancer WelcomedMore than 4000 men are diagnosed and over 700 die from prostate cancer every year. That’s more than twice the road toll. Men’s lives matter too. The Prostate Cancer Foundation today welcomed statements by the National Party relating to prostate cancer ...15 hours ago
- We started a service for people worried about their sexual thoughts about children. Here’s what we...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gemma McKibbin, Senior Research Fellow, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock In its 2017 final report, the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse identified that there was no large-scale national early intervention service in Australia for people worried ...15 hours ago
- Large slash must now be removed after harvesting, new forestry regulations sayCyclone Gabrielle highlighted the need for better regulations on forestry, after woody debris was washed into waterways and caused widespread damage and flooding. ...15 hours ago
- Voice support up in Essential poll, but it is still behindSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The referendum on the Indigenous Voice to parliament will be held on October 14. A national Essential poll, conducted September 27 to ...15 hours ago
- Election 2023: National 'mischief making' over claims Ingrid Leary backs wealth tax –...The Labour leader is downplaying comments by his MP, Ingrid Leary, who has spoken in favour of a wealth tax. ...15 hours ago
- Time For Aotearoa NZ To Stop Investing In Infrastructure For YesterdayTime to invest in infrastructure for a modern, flourishing, resilient tomorrow. The New Zealand Federation of Multicultural Councils hosted its 34th AGM and Community Awards Dinner on the weekend of the 16th – 17th September 2023 in Wellington. Twenty-four ...15 hours ago
- More than 50,000 people cast ballot on first day of advance votingThe first day of advance voting yesterday saw 56,557 people cast their ballots, according to the Electoral Commission. That’s a big drop on day one of advance voting in 2020, when 92,434 people took part. Given the exceptional, Covid-impacted circumstances of the last election, however, a more instructive comparison may ...16 hours ago
- Climate debate puts parties' emissions policies under scrutinyWith New Zealand on track to fall 114 million tonnes short of the 2030 emissions reduction target, and billions of dollars likely needed to pay for it, political parties have debated their climate policies. ...16 hours ago
- Climate debate puts parties' emissions policies under scrutinyWith New Zealand on track to fall 114 million tonnes short of the 2030 emissions reduction target, and billions of dollars likely needed to pay for it, political parties have debated their climate policies. ...16 hours ago
- ACT unveils medicines policy including one-week approvalsACT is promising to require one-week Medsafe approvals for drugs and medical devices approved by at least two similar countries. ...16 hours ago
- Gambling with Covid: Repeat infections are damaging usThe science is clear, the effects are profound and the toll of Long Covid and reinfections can’t be ignored, writes Freya Sawbridge. On August 15, mandates ceased for masks in healthcare settings along with isolation for positive cases. That marked the end of the final two pandemic restrictions. Anyone wanting to ...17 hours ago
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Yep, there is a dearth of humanity in our political and social discourse at the moment and it is getting worse. In evidence, see the support for John Key.
Good article. However, the discussion too often gets framed in terms of large Polynesian families living in South Auckland.
Mind the Gap by Bryan Bruce and Nigel Latta’s the Haves and Have Nots focuses on a variety of folk struggling in Key’s NZ.
Too many NZers willing to turn away.
47% of voters selfishly put their own tax cuts and GST gains above the need of The poor and vulnerable.
The election is tailor made for middle-class new zealand. They all vote, the have-nots are to worried about trying to survive.
Perversely, it would seem that many voters (wittingly or unwittingly) put other people’s tax cuts and GST gains above the need of the poor and vulnerable.
That article turned up on my face book and one of the comments from a Maori falla was ‘but they are still pumping out kids’ every one has a right to have children but surely birth control education must be part of breaking the cycle.
“still pumping out kids” is such a compassionate way to talk about human beings. 🙄
I fully support having better education and access to contraception for people who choose it, but it would be lovely if we could just talk about the rights of children to be warm, safe and healthy without implying that poor people should be forced to make the reproductive choices we’re comfortable with.
Access to contraception is widely and freely available. This is a western democracy not Albania.
One thing I have learned in my life so far is to never mess with a ladies ovaries.
We are all different with different dreams and mums quite frankly have dreams of two kids, and dreams of many and big families. I for one will never interrupt any womans dreams of her family.
just saying some things seem to off limits.
When you expect tax payers to pick up the tab, that’s when it becomes an issue.
When a society fails to support their people having children is when that society has moved onto the path of its own destruction.
just like ACT party and United get a big hand out from {fuck John Key} that’s when it becomes a tax payer issue issue.
Access to contraception is widely and freely available.
It really, really isn’t. And if it were, it would still be incredibly gross to force people to take it just because you don’t like their choices.
So you have no problem with people breeding and popping out kids that they can’t afford and then expecting the tax payer to supply them with the money to raise their children.
Why is that?
If the people who can afford it don’t do it, then maybe the people who do want children should be valued for the service to society that they are providing?
There seems to be something very wrong with a society that ‘disallows’ those that want something as fundamental as having children from doing so.
Where money is increasingly becoming the measure for whether someone is valued or not – perhaps those raising children should be paid as much as those in the financial sector – both roles are are important to our society as it is organized right now.
Shouldn’t raising children be as valued as calculating the daily exchange rate?
Just playing around with ideas here, what do you think?
With people living a lot longer combined with the greater competition for available jobs and the diminishing supply of natural resources I think a lot more thought needs to go into population control.
Last thing we need is women popping out kids because they have no other purpose in their lives.
With people living a lot longer combined with the greater competition for available jobs and the diminishing supply of natural resources I think a lot more thought needs to go into population control
If that is so, then why do we continue to allow immigration?
Last thing we need is women popping out kids because they have no other purpose in their lives.
This sentence implies that having the aim to have children is not a great one. Lots of people will claim it is their greatest joy. So you are aiming at a society that debars something that many claim to be up there with their most fulfilling and joyous experiences.
Unless you have something to offer NZ in the way of skills or money then you shouldn’t be allowed to immigrate to NZ.
Why we have a quota for Islanders is crazy beyond belief.
As for the people should be allowed to do whatever they want because they get joy from it.
Sure, just don’t expect others to pay for your “fun”.
I didn’t say people “should be allowed to do whatever they want”.
I was commenting that there is a problem with a society that debars some from something that (a) many people will state is their most fulfilling and joyous experience and (b) that raising children needs to be valued as providing a service to society.
If you take these two factors into account, then you have to question a society that is pivoted in such a manner that this activity is as good as debarred for some. It is that way because some people are advantaged and others are disadvantaged by the way things are organized. It is this way because of systemic failure.
So why not fix the problem rather than spending time whinging about those who are affected -disadvantaged and suffering – the most from this systemic failure?
Yes, don’t expect others to pay for your pollution, your gambling businesses, your corruption. Now you’ve set the benchmark of hate let’s apply it to you first.
That is a very salient point, OAB
Do you pay to spread your racist hate via this blog, Bloody Moran? Why should a bigoted hateful thing like you expect others to pay for your views to be propagated?
The other side of that coin however is that many people do want kids, just feel that they can’t afford to start a family at this particular time, so maybe wait a few years to save, get a suitable house etc.
At the same time these people are expected to pay for those who have many more kids than they can afford.
Where is the fairness in that?
I think this is what really rankles people and leads to all the bene hate.
People need to be more grateful for their fortunate circumstances and less judgemental about others who are not so fortunate.
People who hold such views have no idea what this does to communty spirit and how it alienates and creates more problems.
We are losing a lot of good things in this country because people are so fixated on judging and putting down those who are less fortunate than themselves.
I really don’t know why those who are comfortable want to spend so much time on cupidity and resentment toward those who aren’t!
It truly makes no sense to me.
The hate is already there, nourished by the low-IQ and low levels of contact with out-groups.
Right wingers are motivated by hate, that’s the problem.
It is starting to look that way and this is not good for our country 🙁
Full of hyperbole aren’t we? “motivated by hate”, what does that even mean?
Just as offensive as me saying left-wingers are motivated by spending other peoples money on themselves.
Your hate speech is offensive, certainly, and it’s the misery you cause that counts. Scum like you, blaming misfortune on the unfortunate, don’t deserve oxygen let alone democracy.
Shall we read the list of deaths from preventable infectious diseases together?
lol. oab lecturing on hate speech. ironic.
I respond aggressively to callous bigotry, and you?
Deny and exacerbate it.
@ MrV
If you are in a position to save and afford to have children, you are actually in fortunate circumstances. Why would you not simply be thankful that you are?
Why would you not see that is unfair that there are some in this country that if financial concerns were the sole criteria for having children, they would have to not have children.
It is due to poor society organization, after-all, that there are some that are so much poorer than others.
I’m not saying people shouldn’t have kids – far from it. But you must accept that some people have too many kids.
I’m all for taxpayer support for people in hardship, however if they are up to child #5, the question needs to be asked why they aren’t helping themselves?
You can insult all you like but this is how many people view it.
Nazi
@MrV
I actually was taking your comments seriously and making every attempt to word my response politely and not be rude, so please point out where I insulted you?
You actually are implying that some people shouldn’t have children, perhaps this isn’t deliberate on your part and is just that you don’t realise quite how badly paid some jobs are in New Zealand in relation to costs?
I am quite certain that there are many people in New Zealand who really don’t realise the increased difficulty in social mobility in this country and assume that it is as easy as it once was. Sadly they then judge those that are struggling and get nasty toward them and this only compounds the problem.
This lack of awareness is because certain people in this country haven’t been in poor circumstances, and don’t realise the variety of government policies introduced over successive years that are making it increasingly difficult to get out of poverty traps for a lot of New Zealanders, because it hasn’t affected them directly.
If only people would start listening and educating themselves so they would realise these difficulties exist and are increasing and we might actually get a government elected who would improve conditions for all.
I was one of five kids, back in the day when people (even those on the lowest wages) earned enough to support five kids and the state built good state houses to grow up in.
@ Anker,
It is so sad the direction this country has gone in 🙁
The fairness is that despite your disgusting attitudes, you are still allowed to live in New Zealand. It’s a mistake: you deserve far worse.
on behalf of OAB
HA, did you hear that slap folks I thought Taupo just erupted.
+infinity
@BM
Did I say that or are you putting words in my mouth. I said freedom of choice.
I said it was somewhere I would not like to go.
As for the poster who said contraception is not widely available. Every town has a chemist, Men can buy condoms there and in a lot of pub toilets..well there are dispensers in UK pubs n clubs.
Plus any woman can go to their Dr can they not.
Or are Dr’s not widely available. Are chemists a figment of my imagination.
@BM educate. Don’t legislate.
i certainly am not advocating any of the rubbish bm and his mates are posting . I just think church’s need to stop with the anti contraception garbage , educate people about good choices and blokes need to grow some and get the snip
“still pumping out kids” is such a compassionate way to talk about human beings.
No, it’s a realistic way to talk about human beings, who are after all human beings, not rabbits, and can reasonably be expected to apply their brains to their circumstances. No compassion is due to people who’ve produced six children – the last thing this planet needs is exponential population growth among humans. If these six children are suffering, their parents get first place on the list of culprits.
No, it’s a dogwhistle to bigots, dehumanising, racist, and wrong.
But they were financially secure when they had the children. It was when their house they rented was sold that their lives fell apart.
And they have income, the father is working full time. It’s a pretty poor state of things if a family can’t afford to rent a three bedroom house on one full time income.
I agree the kids should ‘t suffer but politicians need to no what voters think
Why should my dads taxes pay for these people’s house. I’m 10 years old and my dad is saving for a house.
Admin? He’s ten?
Comments are judged on content rather than the age of the commenter, even “BM” who seems younger than “Harry” is allowed to comment.
I just hope Harry and his dad get to live in their own house before either of them reach retirement age.
Like a parent I’m just concerned he’s
A found the Standard
B commented on a topic over his head
C doesn’t need to be concerned about this sort of thing yet
D Hasn’t the worldy experience to judge the ins and outs of poverty or the issue
E is probably a mischevious 50 year old national party supporter causing trouble
F Should be asking his dad to explain it not us.
G just don’t like kids they tend to write horrible crap when someone tells them off, online, being an IT engineer in the past.
H He’s 10 I mean that’s not even teenage yet.
I hasn’t his dad told him not to talk to strangers
J I think I’ve made up enough concerns now as to why I asked for an Admin to make a decision on a ten year old posting here.
K now I’ve made my points if it’s ok for kids to join in serious debates where robust discussions are tolerated and encouraged, I think i’ll leave the Standard as I will not sit idly by or condone a ten year old reading swear words and adult conversations he should not be listening too. When I was growing up I was off to bed when the adults talk got adult. Call me old fashioned but principles are principles.
You’re quite the killjoy aren’t you. There are far worse things out there in the internet than a political discussion on the standard. I was first interested in politics when i was his age. I was reading and comprehending political science journals around the time i was 12. Maybe you shouldn’t assume that he doesn’t have the ability to understand and reason as you don’t know anything about him. As for the swear words, they are just words, you underestimate the kinds of things that kids hear and know these days. Hiding kids away from the language isn’t teaching them anything, teaching them to be polite and respectful is the key.
Harry, if it was your mum and dad that couldn’t afford to rent or buy a house and if you and your family had to live in a car or someone else’s garage, how would you feel about no one helping you out by helping your family get into a house?
Life is about sharing and helping others less fortunate than yourself.
@ Harry,
Because your dad, like all of us, would benefit from living in a country where everyone gets their basic living needs met.
This country has enough resources for all people living in it, there is something wrong that some people can’t afford their basic living costs.
Distribution is required to ensure that the rich don’t just keep getting richer at the expense of everyone else.
everyone gets their basic living needs met
If, at the beginning of this experiment with the “market economy” we had made substantive human rights, such as the right to earn a living and the right to secure dwelling, non-negotiable, with the level of commitment that was shown on the nuclear ships issue, we would not now be in this mess. Such a stance would have posed an obstacle that drove other policies and actions down different paths than those that have been taken. For example, if you don’t want to pay taxes to keep people, then you must employ people. If you want to employ people, you must do something productive, etc.
At the moment, with the media vilification of Cunliffe, the promotion of Stuart Nash, and the continuous meddling in the business of left-wing parties by right wing activists, I fear that we will end up with no one to tackle these problems who has access to the levers by which they can be tackled effectively.
“…with the level of commitment that was shown on the nuclear ships issue, we would not now be in this mess.”
+100 Basically that is the crux of the matter.
1. Those taxes would also help you and you family get a house
2. Back many years ago the government made low interest mortgages available to first home buyers. This means of supporting people was removed so that a few people could make more profit from private banks.
Man. Do you guys get trolled this easily?
Harry, the level of poverty in any society is a choice that society makes.
Citizenship comes with responsibilities as well as rights.
This isn’t an abstract political game: we know exactly what happens when society doesn’t care for its weakest citizens, and to put it bluntly in the narrow terms in which you frame your question, that costs more.
Read some history.
No sex, no booze, no smokes, nothing that gives simple pleasure to the down and outs – that’s what I feel the Nacts and their supporters believe, going from many of their comments in public fora. And the logical extension of such thought: eugenics – and we all know where that leads.
I don’t think they’ll go for eugenics. They like having the poor around, and the poorer and more desperate the better. They want a country like Brazil was, where an ugly fuckwit can get laid for buying someone the equivalent of a sausage roll. They want to be able to get their car washed for $2, or their house cleaned for $5. That makes them feel even more superior.
I think this is the issue that should be shedding labour party supporters like droves. They have proven themselves to nothing more than wet liberals on this issue. When John A Lee, Mickey Savage, Harry Holland and other addressed this issue, they built houses to kept working people alive, and ultimately offered them hope.
Now we see a whole lot of hot air, and no traction. Yes the Tories are worse – in their fantasy land of market solutions. And many of that ilk show utter contempt to religious views – ahh the irony.
+1
Large families are part of the social structure in the pacific and also some Asian countries. The idea is that children start earning money early with schooling taking a backseat. Girls are married off to the highest bidder. Whilst this might not be true for all the cultural undercurrent still plays a role. NZ does not accommodate that kind of infrastructure (or does it?). Hence cultures collide.
I belief we need to make sure that every child is educated and has an opportunity to use their full potential to achieve. This is the only way to brake the cycle. Naturally, housing is part of the equation and some form of reassurance that children have a home should be the aim of any civilized society. This has less to do with left, right or double cross stitch but everything with human decency.
There should be incentives around assisted resettlement in the Pacific Islands for families with large numbers of kids and/or who are unable to find suitable housing/work. They should be encouraged to return to their home countries, with the help of a resettlement grant.
Hmm…. this is a tempting argument when fear of the future is overwhelming. Belief me, I am as human as the next person looking for simplistic solutions.
When I step back and focus on trying to look at solution that really will make a difference, it always comes back to education.
Most of the Islands and poor Asian countries do not have the infrastructure and/or political will to accommodate talent. Coupled with a very outdated approach to gender it just adds to the already very thin spread of ladies in the executive.
To break the cycle and provide the means for change that carries through we need to learn to share. It’s difficult to convince the NZ public that poor people who are perceived to be a drain on the social purse should be assisted. In the end this is when the monkey jumps into the water – so to speak. Are we prepared to put the money where the mouth is? It is basically a humanitarian action. I may add that this is valid for any person in such a situation. NZ will most likely benefit to have the same people who have taken up opportunities establish the business connections NZ needs today and in the future. We just need to stop being greedy.
Your response was nicer than mine.
I am a nice person on Sundays 😉 Recommend not to be provoked though 🙂
cogito, sneezed up a cropper.
I say keep the pacifica at least they know what honour and respect mean. Oh and other concepts like family and equality. That one above seems to have lost it with some seriously fruit cake ideas they be espousing. How about we all chip in for an airfare to the Ukraine, so you can join your loopy brothers in arms.
@Adam
What utter BS.
You have not provided one single reason why the idea is unfair, unworkable or unwise.
I think it’s a great idea.
Give them a couple of years worth of bene payments, they’d live like kings back in the islands.
The simpler island life style would probably suit them so much better as well.
Oh look, a National Party representative spewing racist hate. Situation normal.
There is a difference between simplicity and being simple. Sending people back to the islands is an intolerant and shortsighted way of looking at the issues at hand. NZ has a political agreement with many of the island nations and is therefore also obliged to assist. As for the human equation, it will not eliminate the underlying causes of the problem that a section of NZlanders, that is growing in numbers with every year is experiencing day after day. Were not talking about beneficiaries but people who work 3 jobs to make end meet and/or retirees who cannot afford adequate care, dying undignified deaths. This is not something that can’t be swept away with simple statements. History shows us that societies with out of balance dynamic is something that can be observed when societies are dying.
If your not a Maoriori, perhaps we can all chip in to give you a plane flight back to the UK then. Or the islands if your a Maori.
Don’t forget we are ALL immigrants to this fine country. It was not populated until the 1600’s roughly
The Moriori were not an earlier people who arrived in Aotearoa before Maori. This theory was debunked years ago. Kupe is thought to have arrived around 925 and Maori had inhabited the whole of Aotearoa within the next few centuries. Where does your date of 1600 come from?
Oh from an article about a found early canoe up northland, carbon dated around 1500 1600 from the corking. Latter canoes were dugout style but due to the construction it was a mixed type indicating a construction based on an island style where tree’s were not as big and they had to plank them. I made a connection. My ignorance thanks for the head up .
I stand corrected.
Carbon dating? Pfft! Mitochondrial DNA is your friend.
Maori oral history tells us there were many voyages back into the Pacific. It wasn’t just one group of canoes. They were the best navigators in the world before modern instruments were invented.
BM @ 8.1.2.1.1. That must be what JK meant when he talked about a brighter future…………now I see. RAther than try and solve social issues and create a decent society, ship ’em out!
BM @ 8.1.2.1.1. That must be what JK meant when he talked about a brighter future…………now I see. RAther than try and solve social issues and create a decent society, ship ’em out!
Umm………..then prey what do you do with Pakeha and Maori in the same position? I.e those on pathetically low wages, trying to find housing when there has been a massive market failure of providing decent homes?
Send ’em to an island and preferably one that is sinking due to the lifestyles those who want them deported and whom support policies that cause wage disparity, live.
(A firing squad would be cheaper – but not as easy an idea to sell, methinks.)
I almost read that wrong Blue leopard. I had to re read it to get what your saying. Carefully on the grammer mate.
as in clarify who the em is your referring too
My comment is in response to Anker’s comment. Who do you think ’em is referring to?
There ain’t nuthink wrong with having to read one of my comments twice, the more you read, the better you understand the subtly and depth contained within them.
One should be able to work out who the ’em is by looking at whose comment I was responding to. This was to Anker’s comment, which contained a question, so it should have been clear that I was kindly responding to that question.
Perhaps I should have put an /irony or /sarc tag on, but sometimes, when a comment’s tone is so obvious, I leave it to the reader’s intelligence to work it out.
Responding by correcting grammar grammatically incorrectly is rather a dull thing to do, I suggest in the future, you think of something more witty.
Summary: could do better, try harder next time.
AHH touchee my friend 1-0.
I submit to your wit, for now , but I will watch, I will learn, I will find you, and I will come back.
🙂
Heh 🙂
“This has less to do with left, right or double cross stitch but everything with human decency.”
Might want to tell the right that. And the neoliberals.
Human decency is something that is thought and passed on like a cultural attitude. NZ by and large used to be quite good at that. What has changed? And whatever has changed seem to being so overbearing now?
Its easy to say that it is all the rich people – these days anybody who is not on some form of benefit seem to be rich- but isn’t it so that the traditions have changed? That many of the customs such as curtsey, charity and good will has been transformed to a hierarchical structure that does not follow the traditions of equality but follows a political pattern last observed when monarchies reigned and tribal traditions mix with it so well? Are we going backwards?
I’m not saying that it’s all the rich. Plenty of neoliberals across the board (the rich get special mention of course, because of their privilege and power).
We are 3 decades in from the 80s. There is a cultural entrenchment now that will be very hard to reverse. Yes, we are going backwards.
@cogito
Racism much. When the sea rises and wipes out whole islands with tidal surges and massive storms, you’ll be donating to support all those you helped return to the islands won’t you. You’ll be on board the Herc dropping of medical and food supplies to the dying and survivors.
Sure you will. I’m alright jack stuff everyone else scenario is it.
@Richard
I was suggesting a voluntary programme for those who wished to take it up.
Your comment is entirely lacking in balance, rationality and intelligence.
If you were living in a car with six kids, I bet you would jump at the opportunity for a fresh start, closer to family, and with some transitional support.
This is not a stupid idea. The only likely limiting factor would be the high numbers of people who would probably want to take advantage of the programme, which would outstrip the ability of the Islands to absorb them!
and every rights group on the planet would be hating on you for being a perceived racist. Every opposed media outlet would roast your , sounds like huts.
Sometimes it’s not about policy, and the motives for it your thinking, it’s about how it can be used against you. You’d be lucky not to be crucified, if you were in power with god himself at the helm.
The ones who should be crucified are WINZ for stopping people’s benefits when they go back to see family in the Islands.
Relativity mate, I went to Albania to see family whilst on Invalids, they carried on paying my IB for the month I was away. There’s a common sense time limit before it stops and hey I figured at that time it was about spot on.
Um I think it may have changed a little on the time limit but from experience if your ok in manners, and the Winz persons reasonable, you have a good and justified reason for travelling there is no issue.
It’s not the rules, life is about attitudes when dealing with government employee’s treat them with respect they are reasonable with you. A lot of people dig their own graves if you know what I mean.
Educate them don’t ostracise them.
South Africa used to do something like that, but they didn’t have any islands handy. They sent surplus workers to bantustans instead.
I’ve got a better idea. Why don’t you go and live somewhere else?
@Murray arrogant Olsen
I’ve got a better idea – you give these people a roof in your house.
I was going to post this link when the post-election brouhaha died down:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/21/linda-tirado-poverty-hand-to-mouth-extract
It’s a great read for those who keep banging on about ‘poor choices’ etc. to justify their lack of basic human decency.
+100 Blue…thanks….and pretty sobering
thanks, grim but essential reading.
Things are looking good for Ms Tirado although there has been a little push-back since the essay was published by the HuffPost.
http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/interview-linda-tirado-tktk
http://otherviewsfromhere.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/final-thoughts-on-being-poor-and-this-viral-age-in-which-we-live/
Some people live in cars and some people live in Castles, some people earn millions and some earn nothing, some people die young and some die old, welcome to the real world that has been around since the year dot.
yup….and unless everyone is given a chance and hope in a civil society …ie affordable housing, work opportunities , education equality of opportunity ….the have nots will eventually turn on those who denied them their rights as human beings
…and that is also a surety of the “real world” that you talk about “since the year dot” ..or as history shows it is not pretty
Yes, and with ignorance will stay at year dot and wont move. As with any living things; if it ain’t moving it’s dead.
Andrew Walsh @ 10 Except NZ in the 1960’s -70’s was a decent place ie. more egalitarian. Those were much better times.
I grew up in a “poor” family, but we had a warm dry house and food, good health care and a great education.
+100 anker
Its a shame some of the homeless couldnt relocate to areas where there are cheap houses. There are places on the west coast where houses are closer to 100k , sadly theres no work. Alot of these problems seem to exist only in auckland and christchurch.
Where there is some work, but no houses.
Now we are getting somewhere away from the bile spewed above:
For answers we must consider.
a) Local & Central govt policies for the last 30yrs have caused rampant housing speculation by stifiling supply.
b) Nature of the tax system, ie taxing the common mans income and business profits but not speculative capital returns and blatant rent seeking or transaction costs.
c) Current monetary policy, and the underlying assumption of 2% inflation as benign (hint it isn’t)
It will never happen as long as your dog whistle smears have currency.
No, it will never happen whilst you believe in pointing the finger at people, accusing them of being motivated by hate, whilst thinking your poo is pure white.
Exhibit a: Pointing the finger at people
Exhibit b: these people are expected to pay for those who have many more kids than they can afford.
Where is the fairness in that?
Yes, I’m afraid it’s true, here we have yet another snivelling hypocrite who hates on people then whines at getting smacked down.
They shouldn’t be allowed to breed.
There’s a place called Tokoroa and other towns nearby. Houses are down to 55k, Central Nth Island, all within 1 hour of 3 major cities. Rotorua, Taupo, Hamilton, Work everywhere.
Quite attractive if correctly promoted.
Publicity campaign would put a real dent in the housing problem and first home buyer problems in Auckland real fast. Sometimes I get the feeling vested interest are keeping the status quo for ulterior motives of a financially sinister nature. 😉
I am not a conspiratorial theorist, it just crossed my mind.
Why is everybody concentrating on the “problem” of the poor and not on the manufactured situations created by the wealthy? Scared? No courage? What?
Exactly, FW.
Up tp 70 percent of wages is being spent on rent.
The wealthy own the National Party and the media and the police and the justice system. That might have something to do with it.
Well said Foreign Waka.
+100 Foreign Waka
chooky equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome
Where does state responsibility end, if it takes 250k to raise a child, you are on minimum wage, you understand house prices are not cheap in auckland, why in gods name do you have 6 kids, You have through your own decisions sentenced yourself and your family to poverty. No state has the resources to simply accomodate this poor decision making, no matter how generous. As this family are on minimum wage, they should be looking at the provinces, one they will find housing cheaper and two as they are on minimum wage there will be no real wage differential thus they will be better off form a dispoable income perspective. sitting around in a car waiting for the state to solve their problem is a dead end street
@ Redelusion “equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome”…who said this?…this is beside the point
Every New Zealand child deserves a warm house to live in, parents who have employment for a reasonable standard of living, free high quality state education including tertiary education
( there will still be differences in outcome but at least it will be a more egalitarian society with more equal opportunity)
Other countries can do this…why cant we?…in New Zealand we used to do this as anker has pointed out
Instead we have overseas speculators buying up scarce New Zealand housing stock and raising the price of housing so it is unaffordable for Young New Zealanders. We have state education being underfunded and run down and increasingly privatised. We have tertiary education where young New Zealanders are forced into tens of thousands of dollars of debt even for a basic degree ..We have very bright young New Zealanders barred from postgraduate degrees because their parents arent wealthy enough to support them and they cant even get a student loan for postgrad studies. We have people on inadequate wages to support their children and rents and good food
….(we have desperate people living in cars and sheds…and they would not be there if the state was committed to helping them…we need state houses and not new motorways)
some things you haven’t taken into consideration –
family and other social support available where they currently live
less jobs in the provinces
can’t afford to move
contraceptive failure
cultural differences in the value of children
they were renting, lost their home when the landlord sold it, and now due to the housing crisis in Auckland they can’t find something they can afford. Paying 70% of your income on rent is a housing problem, not a family size problem.
If they are already in the car they could just drive it out to the provinces a. And tell their boss he isn’t paying enough. At the moment they seem to be effectively subsidising an employer who is underpaying them (if he isn’t paying enough to allow a family to live in the area that he needs them to live in). People have to start making those sorts of choices to force the wages up and relieve housing pressure in the absence of other changes).
If they are living in the car fuel costs might just be an issue, and it’s entirely possible the car has no rego or warrant.
You’ll find employment policy is the government’s responsibility, your fantasy of rational actors in a free market is a fantasy: the evidence is in.
Plus what are they supposed to live on while they look for a new job?
“your fantasy of rational actors in a free market is a fantasy:”
Pity that imagination can’t be used to think through real life circumstances, but I guess that’s what happens when ideology trumps reality (aka fantasy).
So who in their right mind with no expectation of more than an average wage has 6 kids. I stopped at 4 because new i wouldnt be able to support more, so why should I have to support someone too stupid to work this out!
Because.
You’re asking the wrong question. Ask yourself whether your emotional-and-intellectual-handicap-pretending-to-be-an-opinion has the slightest connection to reality.
It doesn’t, and I know why.
Shall we read it together?
I’ve been thinking about the CGT in relation to rentals.
It could reduce the rental stock, to the temporary advantage of first home buyers, and to the long term disadvantage of renters (those who cannot muster a deposit).
It could cause a slump in house building.
It could make it harder for a bach owner to sell their bach and buy another one of the same value, since significant capital is lost due to real estate fees and CGT, which does seem to interfere with personal freedom to some extent.
I’ve never aspired to own a rental, despite urging from some folks, partly because of the way people delightedly tell me their tenants are paying their mortgage for them.
.
The nett effect partly depends what you spend the revenue on.
If you were going to introduce it I expect it would be best to bring it in at a very low rate initially so as to minimise disruption. e.g. 5%.
.
But my view for now is that a financial transaction tax would be better.
All taxes cause distortions. If the selling of the bach is seen as an interference with your personal freedom consider the extreme interference you experience every time you buy something with GST on it or pay PAYE.
The question of house building comes down in part to what the bottle neck is for development. I think it is probably about suitable land being opened up and to an extent administrative hurdles for building but probably not return on capital. Businesses are probably likely to undervalue capital gains compared to other costs a thy would be risk adverse and they can offset expenses against those gains.
So in the hypothetical scenario where company tax rates dropped on the sector and cgt went up the sector would probably significantly increase building as a result.
Financial transaction taxes are an issue because thy could distort at very low levels due to the efficiency of the financial market. even a tiny tax might cause big distortions..
Flags should be raised for both the Left and Right by an article like this, particularly honing in on the family with six children who are finding themselves struggling.
The Right will be concerned because of the fiscal drag it can impose on the rest of society, when parents are unable to provide for their children and thus the state is required to step in.
The Left, particularly the Green left, should be aghast at this due to principles of sustainability. It is a truism that the planet’s capability of sustaining compound growth of both population and pollution output simply is extremely close to reaching its limits.
Children that are born into our society should receive every opportunity to become happy and productive/enlightened citizens. To be honest though, in the 21st century, having six children is a crime against humanity. Parties from across the spectrum MUST come together to find ways to discourage and prevent this.
The best way to reduce the number of children people have is to eliminate poverty – there’s a pattern that has occurred across history. People in poverty tend to have more children than those who don’t.
That’s circular though. Children produce poverty produce more children produce more poverty. In that sense you will always be chasing your tail.
The economy could also collapse for extrinsic reasons (e.g resource shortages, conflict) and at that point you could have MORE people in poverty.
If you want to short-circuit that process somewhere, the easiest point is the number of kids people have.
Mate, the reality is, the underlying factors are poverty. Blaming the victims for and expecting them to change, when the underlying conditions don’t is futile, nasty and unnecessary.
Give everyone a living income, and see things improve. That’s the shortest and most effective route to change.
Futile, nasty, unnecessary, and sadistic. Once authoritarians get a taste for hurting people, they can’t stop.
Viewing everyone as a victim strips them of their agency.
Isn’t that approach quite authoritarian?
EDIT: one person’s living income is another person’s poverty. As a DINKY i require far less to live on than someone with a family. The question is how to reconcile this?
If I were viewing everyone as a victim you’d have a point. I’m not: I’m viewing you as a sadist, intent on doing harm for your own satisfaction.
The way to reconcile this is to diminish and undermine your influence by any means necessary.
Alrighty then…
I suppose you might simply be a malevolent busybody, unwittingly revealing your anti-social need to judge and rule the lives of others.
Or perhaps just a whining wingnut, exploring another way to pack a sad at having to pay your taxes.
So long as your fact-free drivel has political currency however it’s best to assume you’re a sadist.
OK, there are very few families with 6 kids to start with. It has also been researched at ad nauseam that the better off the parents the less children are born. In fact, this is a great concern in developed countries as at the current birth rate will not even be enough to replace the current population. This in turn will lead to impoverishment and …….. yes, you guessed it – more kids. Isn’t nature a funny thing?
And in other news, Alex Swney has just been charged with millions of dollars worth of tax evasion. Those rich people, eh? They could be abseiling down a mountain of cash all day long, and they’re still after just that little bit more…
“Bastard IRD! I could afford a second Porsche if I didn’t have to pay sodding taxes!”