Brownlee accused of bullying lawyer

128 comments on “Brownlee accused of bullying lawyer ”

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1. cleangreen 1

   13 September 2018 at 8:00 am

   Oh dear Gerry Brownlee is a bully!!!!!

   Probably a hang-over from his being a woodwork teacher eh?

   Of course you see him as the carping critic over Government’s Trevor Mallard as being the ‘real speaker of the house’ .

   But we see Gerry Brownlee always criticisng the speaker every day as though he (Gerry feels as through he is the real speaker)

   it is rather pathetic really and a waste of parliamentary time when they need to be actively dealing with the the torrent of troubles NZ citizens are facing.

   Brownlee = wasting productive parliamentary time.
   • KJT 1.1

     13 September 2018 at 1:34 pm

     I doubt if Brownlee was a good “woodwork” Teacher.
2. cleangreen 2

   13 September 2018 at 8:03 am

   Christchurch council is now selling their assets we learn today.

   A legacy issue left set-up by Gerry Brownlee perhaps???

   This is terrible!!!!!

   Selling the assets built up by the long taxpayer, for private rorting.

   Labour is ‘National lite’ for sure!!!!

   Labour under Jacinda is just business as usual again under ‘Roger Douglas round two’.
   • left_forward 2.1

     13 September 2018 at 8:52 am

     You have lost me – how does it follow that Labour is National lite because Christchurch Council is selling some assets?
     • Dukeofurl 2.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 9:36 am

       Thats cleangreen shtick…. a concern troll
       • left_forward 2.1.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 12:31 pm

         Cheers DukeofUrl.
       • veutoviper 2.1.1.2

         13 September 2018 at 1:57 pm

         Age.
     • koreropono 2.1.2

       13 September 2018 at 4:16 pm

       Perhaps cleangreen is referring to Labour’s propensity to continue on with a failed economic policy that is generally favoured by more right leaning political parties. I suppose cleangreen sees the sale of yet more assets to the private sector as a continuation of the bigger neoliberal agenda. An agenda that sadly Labour seems hell bent on continuing. Maybe cleangreen is right on this occasion, or perhaps Labour is more ‘right’ than you thought it was.
       • left_forward 2.1.2.1

         13 September 2018 at 5:03 pm

         Maybe all of those things or not. How could you tell?
         • koreropono 2.1.2.1.1

           14 September 2018 at 9:41 am

           How could you tell? I guess actions speak louder than words and I think Labour’s actions speak for themselves. Examples could include signing up to the TPP, despite evidence that it is an attack on our sovereignty and feeds a neoliberal agenda, whilst vulnerable workers become more vulnerable. Add to that, pre- election, Labour lied/misled voters about their intentions regarding the TPP. Then there was the promise to deal with policy around the section 70a benefit sanctions that affect predominately women and children and adds significantly to child poverty. I could go on and on but given the OP is about the bully Gerry Brownlee I don’t think it is appropriate to include Labour’s negligence of our most vulnerable citizens.
           • left-forward 2.1.2.1.1.1

             14 September 2018 at 10:55 am

             Yes, I totally agree about the TPP – most frustrating that they simply don’t just abandon it, and I don’t know what is happening with the section 70a sanctions – but I would support easing up on these.
             But has Labour announced asset sales or something? What else have they done / not done to justify – ‘Roger Douglas round two’ ?
             • koreropono …

               14 September 2018 at 7:34 pm

               Perhaps it is because Labour have not committed to overturning the most damaging economic reforms this country has ever seen? I have read somewhere Adern agreed that neoliberal economic policy is a failed ideology, yet they’re (Labour) are continuing on with Roger Douglas’ failed agenda, just like Helen did…I think many hoped that Adern would be different.
       • Bill 2.1.2.2

         13 September 2018 at 5:19 pm

         But…but…but, Jacinda has a baby, and that makes her Progressive and so much more than just a working mum. And The Guardian keeps saying nice things about her and the party she leads.

         So…so…so, how dare you!?
         • left_forward 2.1.2.2.1

           13 September 2018 at 6:21 pm

           And how does this wierd baby stuff relate to the OP and Brownlee?
           • Bill 2.1.2.2.1.1

             13 September 2018 at 6:40 pm

             Well, it relates to this sub-thread where you and other pom-pom wavers mounted the usual defense of the indefensible by…attacking a commenter whose take you disagree with. A form of bullying as it were 😉
             • left_forward …

               14 September 2018 at 7:50 am

               Nah Bill… asking a question about the logic of a commenter’s statements is not the same as an attack. You have made a bundle of inaccurate assumptions here.
         • Philj 2.1.2.2.2

           14 September 2018 at 10:11 pm

           I have a sinking feeling that Jacinda could be our Obama. All hope and no change. Time will tell.
   • Clive Macann 2.2

     13 September 2018 at 11:20 am

     Huh? What sort of drugs are you on, cleangreen
3. marty mars 3

   13 September 2018 at 8:05 am

   Hard to believe such a useless MP is still in the house – I thought he had already gone.

   This is weird – to ring that person??? What was he thinking?

   And underneath it all the steel – what shit is going to come from that I wonder.
   • bwaghorn 3.1

     13 September 2018 at 12:36 pm

     I’d more interested in why brownies is so wound up about it . Follow the money would be my guess.
     • marty mars 3.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 12:40 pm

       Yeah he seems scared for some reason.
     • Sacha 3.1.2

       13 September 2018 at 8:12 pm

       The reliable donors of Fendalton might put their money into this classy action instead of his next campaign.
4. Chris T 4

   13 September 2018 at 8:07 am

   Not sure where you get Bridges has a problem from.

   You need a bit more than a “forceful” phone call from Brownlee before you start comparing it to the Meka “Is there anyone left on my staff” Whaitiri and her actual alleged physical assault.
   • marty mars 4.1

     13 September 2018 at 8:12 am

     I think an audit of brownlee would throw up lots of things
   • Muttonbird 4.2

     13 September 2018 at 8:14 am

     Brownlee’s call was a calculated and deceitful abuse of power intended to obstruct the course of justice.

     Being an entitled Nat politician he probably does this sort of thing several times a day.

     Pretty serious for a MP (and his supporters, Chris) to think this is all ok.
     • Chris T 4.2.1

       13 September 2018 at 8:25 am

       All MPs think they are entitled

       It seems to be an affliction that they all catch as they swear the oath

       This doesn’t change the fact that to compare this “forceful” phone call to an actual alleged physical assault by Whaitiri in some kind of weird desperate “what about them!!” ‘ism is pretty pathetic.
       • Muttonbird 4.2.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 8:36 am

         Nice. You wheeled out whataboutism straight after saying, ‘all MPs are the same’.

         Self awareness not your strong point?
         • Chris T 4.2.1.1.1

           13 September 2018 at 8:43 am

           I think you need to do some reading on the meaning of whataboutism
           • Muttonbird 4.2.1.1.1.1

             13 September 2018 at 8:45 am

             I know what it means and you used it when you said, “All MPs think they are entitled.”

             And you used it again by bringing the Whaitiri case into it.
             • Chris T …

               13 September 2018 at 9:11 am

               I didn’t bring the Whaitiri case into it

               The person who wrote the article at the top of the page did

               “And Bridges now has a big problem. Insisting that Ardern takes tough action against Meka Whaitiri but turning a blind eye on Brownlee’s behaviour is more than a little hypocritical.”

               Which was my whole point
               • Dukeofurl …

                 13 September 2018 at 9:53 am

                 We saw Key take tough action against Brownlee …again… when he admitted deliberately bypassing air port security check and offered to resign as Minister of Transport.
                 Key declined to accept his resignation… as Gerry was a good old boy who meant no harm.

                 Women are supposed to be ‘tough’ are they ?
               • Clive Macann …

                 13 September 2018 at 11:24 am

                 Chris T. Abuse whether physical or mental has the same effect. Do not try and say one is worse than the other. Just different forms of abuse. Bullying is not always a physical thing.
                 • Chris T …

                   13 September 2018 at 11:30 am

                   We don’t know it was a abuse

                   The actual company doing the accusing call it a “forceful” phone call

                   What qualifies as forceful?
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     13 September 2018 at 11:55 am

                     We don’t know it was a abuse

                     Yes we do. The person who was on the receiving end was so upset about it she went home to recuperate.

                     It’s the result that qualifies it.
                   • marty mars …

                     13 September 2018 at 12:41 pm

                     Yep good point draco
                   • Chuck …

                     13 September 2018 at 1:13 pm

                     “He (Brownlee) said he assumed the call was recorded and welcomes the release of the taped call.”

                     “That would demonstrate that there was certainly no ranting and no bullying.”

                     https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/brownlee-defends-bullying-phone-call-law-firm

                     Adina Thorn will be loving all this press for the proposed class action. Just hope if it goes to court they have a nice Judge that won’t put their lawyers under any pressure 🙂
                   • McFlock …

                     13 September 2018 at 1:19 pm

                     Why would he assume the call was recorded? I don’t assume everyone I call at their workplace is taping their calls.

                     Although between the former MP for Queenstown and the fact that rogue texters seem to know what goes on in Nat caucus meetings, one can see why Brownlee might be paranoid.
                   • shadrach …

                     13 September 2018 at 3:31 pm

                     “The person who was on the receiving end was so upset about it she went home to recuperate. It’s the result that qualifies it.”
                     The person allegedly on the receiving end of Meka Whaitiri’s alleged action wasn’t too happy either. Based on your logic we should suspend all natural justice and go straight for the sentencing.
                   • McFlock …

                     13 September 2018 at 4:12 pm

                     “allegedly”, “logic”, “natural justice”.
                     All expressions of concepts that you clearly do not understand how to use.
                 • Muttonbird …

                   13 September 2018 at 11:31 am

                   Christie’s point apparently is that the Brownlee bullying and the alleged Meka bullying are not the same level offence and to compare the two is whataboutism.

                   The post says Bridges is in a difficult position because you can’t attack the PM for not being hard on one form of bullying while being soft on another.

                   Christie doesn’t think there’s an issue of hypocrisy there…
                   • greywarshark …

                     13 September 2018 at 12:48 pm

                     The fact that there was a phone call which indicates an MP interest, and that there is high interest concern was a telling point in itself.
         • greywarshark 4.2.1.1.2

           13 September 2018 at 12:45 pm

           ChrisT
           Quibble, quibble, then not so bad; not as bad as; etc.etc. and never giving up till we are down to Godwin level.
       • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.2

         13 September 2018 at 11:52 am

         All MPs think they are entitled

         No. Only the RWNJ ones.
     • Chuck 4.2.2

       13 September 2018 at 9:39 am

       “Brownlee’s call was a calculated and deceitful abuse of power intended to obstruct the course of justice.”

       From what I understand it was a letter inviting people to join a class action being put together by a law firm. So please explain how its an abuse of power? and obstruct the course of justice?

       I have no doubt Brownlee can come across as forceful…

       Mickysavage posted this as well

       “And his decision to ring a junior lawyer working at the law firm bringing the case is frankly weird.”

       There was a number on the letter posted to Brownlee that invited people to call the law firm to discuss (which he called)… I can’t see where MS gets his “frankly weird” from???
       • Muttonbird 4.2.2.1

         13 September 2018 at 9:52 am

         There’s an issue with some steel in the public perception. Tested in court is probably the best way to satisfy that nothing’s been further buried in concrete as it were.

         Big Gerry clearly wants to shut that process down.
         • Dukeofurl 4.2.2.1.1

           13 September 2018 at 10:04 am

           It has been tested in court. It was a deliberate deceit and they have been convicted and fined large amounts, which went to the Treasury.

           This is a class action to provide financial redress for the home owners who have a faulty product.

           http://www.steelclassaction.co.nz/background.html

           I dont have all the details but Im guessing Gerry was opposed to the whole idea of a class action which makes large companies pay.
           These companies:

           Brilliance International Limited
           Timber King Limited
           NZ Steel Distributor Limited
           Steel and Tube Holdings
           Euro Corporation ( still in court)

           and others such as Fletchers who were given ‘warnings’
           https://comcom.govt.nz/case-register/case-register-entries/euro-corporation-limited/media-releases/first-sentence-handed-down-in-commissions-investigation-into-steel-mesh
   • Michelle 4.3

     13 September 2018 at 8:55 am

     how about storming his way through the airport security gate at the airport with his staff in tow Chris t therefore breaking the law does that meet your threshold
   • McFlock 4.4

     13 September 2018 at 12:02 pm

     Nobody said the responses should be identical.

     But a 17 minute diatribe deserves more than “you know how Gerry is”.
5. Muttonbird 5

   13 September 2018 at 8:07 am

   Bridges will be weak on this.
6. Ad 6

   13 September 2018 at 8:08 am

   “It is incredibly unprofessional for a sitting MP to ring a private law firm, make numerous allegations and bullying comments, and not identify himself until the very end of the call.

   That is pretty rich from a law firm who did a mass mailout drumming up business for a class action that is designed to make their partners truckloads of money.

   Adina Thorn are bottom feeding scum preying on fear.

   Good on Brownlee for sticking it to them.
   • Muttonbird 6.1

     13 September 2018 at 8:16 am

     Better not hold government decisions to account, had we…

     Brownlee abandoned Christchurch. At least Adina Thorn haven’t.
     • Ad 6.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 8:31 am

       Mesh reinforced foundations were not required until National brought them in.

       This letter is a cheap fearmongering exercise about seeking to prove a particular kind of steel mesh was used in domestic foundations.

       Ask yourself: who benefits from this class action? Citizens? Gerry Brownlee?

       “We are seeking registrations of interest from owners of buildings whose construction was between approximately 2012-2016 with steel mesh (mainly under floors and in driveways).

       Show your interest in bringing Steel Reinforcing Mesh manufacturers to account.

       If there is sufficient interest from owners with viable claims, we will be seeking compensation from the manufacturers through a class action, that we expect to be fully funded.”
       http://www.steelclassaction.co.nz/?gclid=CjwKCAjw8uLcBRACEiwAaL6MSdmtB8-yD4ihQMeyyJzFvCQ3oV10DShlKnM3OVnYtILhyDM9mK61oxoCqWoQAvD_BwE

       Adina Thorn are not doing anything for free. They are experts in funding this kind of litigation.

       And the beneficiaries? Who do you think will win out of this? Yes, we know who they are:
       ….. Just one person: Adina Thorn herself.
       • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 8:42 am

         And the people with steel related problems. You, and big Gerry seem to have forgotten about them.

         The rebuild has been cheap and dodgy, and it’s cost several hundred million dollars to re-do bad work. This is widely accepted so I think if, as is likely, other areas of poor manufacturing/instalment become apparent years down the track it’s crucial there is a path to accountability.

         CTV shows us what happens when there is none.
         • Ad 6.1.1.1.1

           13 September 2018 at 8:57 am

           Of those who are notified in this mass mailout, how many will have actual benefit from it?

           Of all people with houses and driveways constructed between 2012 and 2016, there will be a much smaller set who will be able to identify what kind of steel was used.

           Of those there will be a smaller set who can identify that it may be of a potentially defective kind.

           From that set there will be a smaller group with the will to sign up to an open-ended litigation with a very small chance of success.

           From that group, an even smaller set will have the fortitude to stick the whole process out.

           From that remaining group, they face the prospect of years in court with potentially zero reward.

           All of that based on fear for all, anxiety for some, ah but for each of those steps, this legal firm keeps staying happy, extracting fees, all the way to the bank.

           Better Call Saul.

           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q4qzYrHVmI
           • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1.1.1

             13 September 2018 at 8:59 am

             Yawn. There’s obviously something personal between you and Adina Thorn so best I leave it there.
           • Dukeofurl 6.1.1.1.1.2

             13 September 2018 at 4:06 pm

             “Of all people with houses and driveways constructed between 2012 and 2016, there will be a much smaller set who will be able to identify what kind of steel was used.”

             Its called discovery. They will know the ‘builders name ‘ from Council records.
             Most franchise builders have ongoing supply relationships with certain suppliers. Thats because they negotiate rebates/discounts off the price for the quantity they use.
             Plus when they get to court they will have to produce the details from their invoices, ie Quickbuild. 500m2 of mesh for say 6 months.
         • Andre 6.1.1.1.2

           13 September 2018 at 9:14 am

           Ad is on the money with this one. The requirement for any mesh at all is relatively recent, many homes have floor slabs with no steel reinforcing at all.

           When the requirement for mesh was first introduced, steel that only stretched 2% before breaking met the requirement. Then after the earthquakes, that stretch requirement was increased to 10%. The ‘dodgy’ steel ‘only’ stretches 8%. But consider: concrete has a typical elongation of only 0.3% before breaking. So the point of the mesh is to hold the bits of broken concrete together, it only does a little bit to stop the concrete breaking. In that context, the difference between no reinforcing at all and reinforcing with 2% elongation mesh is huge, the difference between 2% mesh and 8% mesh is bugger-all, and the difference between 8% mesh and 10% mesh is negligible.

           https://www.buildmagazine.org.nz/assets/PDF/Build127-16-BuildRight-ReinforcingConcreteFloorSlabs.pdf

           https://www.boinz.org.nz/Site/resources/archived-news-and-media-releases/Conformance-of-reinforceing-steel-mesh.aspx

           But none of that in any way excuses Brownlee’s appalling actions.
           • gsays 6.1.1.1.2.1

             13 September 2018 at 9:58 am

             I understand mesh in driveways, to give strength to the concrete when vehicles drive on it.
             Mesh in slabs, is it earthquake related, or to give strength where walls and roof place a load or something else?
             • Andre …

               13 September 2018 at 10:28 am

               Typically mesh really doesn’t add much at all to the strength of a concrete residential driveway. Strength in this context meaning preventing cracks, that in the absence of the mesh would allow the bits either side of the crack to separate.

               There’s so little steel (less than 1% by volume) compared to the volume of concrete, and the difference in modulus (stiffness) between steel and concrete is only a factor of around 10, so that means the steel is only carrying a very small fraction of stresses. Furthermore where it’s placed near the middle of the slab is not where the highest stresses are (the surfaces are the highest stressed) further reducing the contribution to strength.

               But the mesh is able to hold the bits of concrete on either side of a crack together in close contact, so the jagged faces of the crack lock together and prevent significant relative movements. So the slab or driveway still performs its intended purpose quite satisfactorily even if it is cracked. Quite often there will be cracks in a floor or driveway slab purely from shrinkage during the concrete hardening process.

               The situation in a reinforced concrete structure is somewhat different, in that the proportion of steel is much higher, and the placement of the steel is much closer to the highest stresses so it carries much more of the load.

               On top of that there may be prestressing going on – to take advantage of the high tensile strength of some steels to counteract the way concrete is strong in compression but weak in tension.
               • KJT …

                 13 September 2018 at 1:53 pm

                 Steel acts as both a “crack arrester” and to hold concrete together if it does crack.

                 Increases the longevity and stress resistance of a slab.

                 It adds so little to the cost, any responsible builder/concretor uses it.
                 • Dukeofurl …

                   13 September 2018 at 4:16 pm

                   KJT is right. It would be the most dodgy builder who didnt use any reinforcement. Most sites are having some fill underneath and while that is supposed to compacted properly who knows. Then there is clay soil and people who plant trees next to the house. All these things lead to cracks . Just to make sure put in some mesh.

                   I know builders who from experience used a steel 4 bar cage for shallow footings even if the minimum is just a few bars laid horizontally. It covers any other problems you may get from foundations which arent laid in factory conditions. You cant come back in 24 months and fix it if its a foundation problem.
               • gsays …

                 13 September 2018 at 2:18 pm

                 tutuThanks for that Andre and KJT.

                 I was in the residential building industry for 8years in a 2 man crew.
                 Old school builder, did everything from foundations to roofing.
                 Very satisfying work.
                 His slabs would have the sprinkler on them for as long as possible, they never cracked while we were still there.

                 Incidentally I am looking at pouring a slab at home and then relocating a shed into it.
                 From what you have written, I should have the mesh about 20-30 mm from the surface of the concrete rather than 50-60mm below.
                 • Andre …

                   13 September 2018 at 4:20 pm

                   If there didn’t already exist a whole industry with established practices, then my first gut reaction would be to say 2 layers of mesh would do a lot more to improve strength, as close to the top and bottom surfaces of the concrete as reasonably possible would do the most to increase strength. But that strength increase from two layers near the surfaces rather than one near the mid-plane is still pretty marginal, and it would be kind of a pain to position the mesh before pouring.

                   However, my expertise is more in fibre-reinforced plastic composites rather than reinforced concrete, and some weird stuff happens at low levels of fibre reinforcement in plastics. That may also be the case with mesh in concrete, I really don’t know.

                   So given there’s a well established industry with well established practices, if it were my slab I’d over-rule my theoretical reckons and go with what the experts want to do.
                   • KJT …

                     13 September 2018 at 5:30 pm

                     If you are talking about a bridge slab or a suspended concrete floor, yes, and that is where you concentrate the reinforcement, away from the neutral axis.
                     I design boat parts in composite also. My favorite being foam core with plywood and a thin f/glass skins. Gets interesting doing the sums.

                     A floor slab is fully supported by the ground underneath. The mesh is to hold it from failing in tension, along the width of the slab. Near the centre of the concrete is good.

                     Concrete, “Island” foundations are more like a suspended floor. Seen a few with foam “cores” which both insulate and act like a core in a f/glass composite.
                   • Andre …

                     13 September 2018 at 5:41 pm

                     Ah, so I’m getting a bit of a bum steer from observing that most of the cracked slabs I’ve seen are from ground movement underneath the slab, putting the slab into bending.
       • Dukeofurl 6.1.1.2

         13 September 2018 at 10:12 am

         “Mesh reinforced foundations were not required until National brought them in”

         Uhh ?

         These have been around decades. Your usual nonsense. I can remember them being used in Auckland in the mid 2000s.

         An upgrade to Building code after Christchurch meant the mesh and reinforcing rods required a minimum 15% ductility.
         • Andre 6.1.1.2.1

           13 September 2018 at 10:49 am

           “Traditionally, NZS 3604:1999 Timber framed buildings allowed unreinforced concrete floor slabs.”

           https://www.buildmagazine.org.nz/assets/PDF/Build127-16-BuildRight-ReinforcingConcreteFloorSlabs.pdf

           “On 1 August 2011 the Department extended the requirement for stronger foundations to the rest of New Zealand. The Department modified its referencing of NZS 3604:2011 to exclude unreinforced slabs. All concrete floor slabs on ‘good ground’ are required to have reinforcing steel mesh and all perimeter foundations are required to be tied to the concrete slab with reinforcing steel.”

           https://www.standards.govt.nz/assets/Publication-files/NZS-3604-2011-advisory-note.pdf

           That unreinforced slabs were allowed doesn’t mean that a builder with a bit of pride would actually cheap out on such a small additional expense that makes such a big difference to the long term performance.
         • KJT 6.1.1.2.2

           13 September 2018 at 1:59 pm

           Ductility, stress to failure and elongation are not the same thing, although related. Any concrete will fail in tension long before steel reaches maximum elongation.
           Like any composite, the main purpose of reinforcing is to prevent micro cracking propagating.
           • Dukeofurl 6.1.1.2.2.1

             13 September 2018 at 4:28 pm

             Did you see those big concrete slab cracks they got in Christchurch .
             The whole house was a write off because of that even though the timber frame had fixable problems.
             The 15% ductility requirement must be worthwhile other wise why bother. if its only crack control then the main reinforcing must be long bars around the perimeter with some laid diagonal across foundation cutoffs
             • KJT …

               13 September 2018 at 5:13 pm

               You do not want the steel so brittle, that it cracks along with the concrete.
       • Clive Macann 6.1.1.3

         13 September 2018 at 11:28 am

         Mesh reinforced foundations were not required until National brought them in. Hmm. Show me the evidence, please? Been in the construction trade for 50+ years and this is news to me. I think you need to train up on what is a foundation and what is a floor slab. Like chalk & cheese those two.
         • Andre 6.1.1.3.1

           13 September 2018 at 12:53 pm

           My inner pedant fought hard over the slab vs foundation thing. But since the topic is mesh that’s used in slabs and I’m not aware of that kind of mesh going into foundations, I was able to beat it into submission and just go with what Ad appeared to mean instead of fussing over the exact words.
           • Dukeofurl 6.1.1.3.1.1

             13 September 2018 at 4:31 pm

             Sounds like you have technical knowledge but for a house foundation no practical experience
             • Andre …

               13 September 2018 at 5:04 pm

               Only been around a few house foundations a long time ago, and those only used rebar and no mesh. Been grunt labour helping out with a few slabs. So bugger-all practical experience is a fair description when it comes to residential construction.

               My specialist technical expertise is to do with advanced fibre-reinforced composites. Aerospace, top-end marine, top-end sporting goods etc. How to design, analyse and manufacture advanced composite products. Which has a few similarities and a lot of differences to reinforced concrete. Any other out-of-their-usual-line projects my employer of the moment wants to get into usually also land on my plate. So I’ve ended up doing vibration dampers, load cells, lighting, machine control …
               • KJT …

                 13 September 2018 at 5:35 pm

                 Foundations we use rebar. But wired together to make an interlocking mesh.
   • mickysavage 6.2

     13 September 2018 at 8:29 am

     Brownlee is a bully. There is no way that someone in public office should treat anyone in this way.

     The junior lawyer was obviously traumatised by this behaviour. I used to see this happen regularly in the 1980s but it should not be tolerated now.
     • Ad 6.2.1

       13 September 2018 at 8:33 am

       Oh I agree Brownlee is a bully.
       But Adina Thorn clearly had no process for protecting their staff when they invited calls from all the public. They are inviting support for hostile legal action and are wilting because they’re getting a bit of stick back.

       Maybe they’re just not built for the kind of contest they claim they want.
       • Muttonbird 6.2.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 8:44 am

         From the public? Gerry Brownlee is the ex government minister who oversaw the shambles that is the Christchurch rebuild. He’s not just any member of the public even though he tried to pretend he was.
         • Ad 6.2.1.1.1

           13 September 2018 at 9:01 am

           Gerry Brownlee is a representative of the citizenry, because he is a local MP. As well as being a citizen. Agree he was Minister in charge of a shambles.
           • Muttonbird 6.2.1.1.1.1

             13 September 2018 at 9:06 am

             Why do you think he didn’t take the time to a) identify who he was speaking to, and b) identify himself?

             Those are two things a normal citizen would do.

             If anyone appears dodgy in this case it isn’t Adina Thorn, that’s for sure.
           • gsays 6.2.1.1.1.2

             13 September 2018 at 10:02 am

             I would venture to suggest the former minister was motivated to call by his own position as overseer of the shambles he directed in Christchurch.
             Rather than representing the citizenry or his constituents.
     • Enough is Enough 6.2.2

       13 September 2018 at 10:16 am

       ” I used to see this happen regularly in the 1980s but it should not be tolerated now”

       Agreed it should not be tolerated now but have you been asleep this year.

       The legal profession has a culture of bullying that has finally come to light. The fact that the media has got hold of it this year does not mean it has vanished overnight. You may run a friendly little practice where bullying does not exist but you are living in Disneyland if you think that culture has been left in the 1980s.

       And as for Gerry giving it to one of those culprit firms – Meh.
     • indiana 6.2.3

       13 September 2018 at 10:38 am

       Aww c’mon MS! Its not like the junior lawyer had a dildo thrown in their face.
       • Ankerrawshark 6.2.3.1

         13 September 2018 at 3:47 pm

         Indiana the woman who threw the dildo was not a politician and was dealt with by the police.

         False equivalence.

         Brownlee was wrong to do what he did. It’s now a problem for Simon as he will have trouble criticizing jacinda over Meka if he doesn’t take Brownlee to task
         • Dukeofurl 6.2.3.1.1

           13 September 2018 at 4:33 pm

           We already know that National doesnt take their Ministers to task.

           Cave Creek

           Pike River
       • Delia 6.2.3.2

         14 September 2018 at 10:39 am

         She was a registered nurse. Please have proper facts if you comment.
     • Michelle 6.2.4

       13 September 2018 at 2:57 pm

       Agree with m savage and would like to add the last governments were bullies we had 9 years of being bullied and treated like shit. And when are NZders going to realise a vote for the gnats is a vote for more inequalities every time NZders need to wise the fuck up
   • pete 6.3

     13 September 2018 at 9:08 am

     “bottom feeding scum preying on fear.”

     Sort of like those running around screaming “The country is doomed,” “Reds under the bed!” “Communism by stealth,” “Terrorists will be on the refugee boats bound to flood New Zealand!”

     So, any bottom feeding scum preying on fear on the Opposition side of the House? Or among their supporters?
7. Stuart Munro 7

   13 September 2018 at 8:13 am

   I blame the parents. Fucking reptilians.
   • Nick 7.1

     13 September 2018 at 8:38 am

     Blame whose parents?
     • In Vino 7.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 6:47 pm

       Why do I suspect that Stuart Munro may be a teacher, or an ex-teacher?
       I am a semi-retired teacher, and blaming the bloody useless negligent parents is my standard practice. They frustrate our every effort, it seems at times.
   • Dennis Frank 7.2

     13 September 2018 at 8:42 am

     Yeah, goddam reptilians all over the place: “On March 4, 2013, a video depicting a security agent with unusual features guarding a speech by U.S. President Barack Obama was spotlighted in a Wired report about shapeshifting reptilian humanoids”.
8. Muttonbird 8

   13 September 2018 at 8:50 am

   Just as I thought. Bridges will be weak – he’s a very weak man. He’ll be all relaxed about Gerry because everyone knows this is just big, gate-jumping, bullying Gerry.
   • marty mars 8.1

     13 September 2018 at 9:27 am

     Gerry might know something about the leak thus Simon doesn’t want waves.
9. tsmithfield 9

   13 September 2018 at 9:51 am

   I can understand Brownlee being a bit annoyed though.

   The law firm is touting this class action, and marketing it to people who don’t actually have any reason to be concerned. It seems to me that targeted people are likely to be very worried because of concerns about insurability, resale, safety etc.

   However, when people actually take the trouble to dig more deeply into the FAQ section of their web page, then they find this MBIE document:

   https://www.mbie.govt.nz/about/whats-happening/news/document-image-library/Ductile%20steel%20reinforcing%20mesh.pdf

   What if this product has been used in my house and I’ve received a CCC?

   We have advised BCAs that in this case, it’s our view that there is no need to take any action because the house will still meet the structural (as well as the life safety) requirements in the
   Code.

   So, according to MBIE the non-compliant mesh is still entirely suitable for standard slab foundations. Hence there is no need for home owners to panic.

   BTW, I have a home in Christchurch that was built in 2014. So, could well have non-compliant mesh. However, I am not at all concerned and have no intention to join the class action.

   Hence, I think the class action lawyers are causing a lot of needless angst and stress on Christchurch home owners who have already put up with enough.
   • Stuart Munro 9.1

     13 September 2018 at 11:55 am

     Christchurch will be fertile ground for class actions – lots of people wronged by Brownlee’s gross and frankly corrupt mismanagement of the rebuild.

     Fletchers and CERA are other obvious targets, as are the insurance companies who dragged out claims deliberately. Lots of small claimants rorted by large institutions, who were counting on the imbalance of power to give them impunity. They’ll be horrified by the prospect of justice for groups of small claimants.

     Mind – listening to Brownlee for seventeen minutes? Lawyer needs to hang up – or bill him.
   • Dukeofurl 9.2

     13 September 2018 at 3:56 pm

     ” MBIE the non-compliant mesh is still entirely suitable for standard slab foundations. Hence there is no need for home owners to panic.”

     So MBIE is going to pay your out of pocket expenses if their advice is …. well a load of bollocks.
     These are the same people involved with the writing building code who have been responsible for some billions of faulty construction when using the code they said was OK ‘at the time’

     leaky buildings comes to mind.

     if you bought a braodband plan from Spark or Vodafone which in reality was 15% less than what they promised , wouldnt you expect some consequences plus refunds even.

     In an extreme event like earthquake 15% is a lot as foundations are often the weakest link. For a slab is the concrete strength up to the promised numbers, is the mesh supported properly and have the right cover. Does the under slab hard fill been compacted properly
     All these things can vary on a building site, so thats why it does matter as concrete is often not laid by highly skilled staff. Its just a pump and dump and spread and we’re done.
     Not long back Fletchers were supplying below strength concrete to a motorway bridge site and thats something that does get checked.
10. Incognito 10

    13 September 2018 at 10:04 am

    I find that generally it helps to have some background & context to the story:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/88572756/auckland-law-firm-warning-canterbury-homeowners-of-shoddy-steel

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/88617709/adina-thorn-law-firm-accused-of-trying-to-increase-nervousness-over-steel-mesh
    • Dukeofurl 10.1

      13 September 2018 at 10:20 am

      The big company Steel and Tube was the one pushing the anti Adina Thorn article.

      Steel And Tube were convicted of selling shoddy steel…go figure ( all though they claim the conviction only related to the fake certificates being a misrepresentation- but that was Commerce Commissions only avenue)

      But you have to ask , why were the certificates faked in the first place ?
11. Delia 11

    13 September 2018 at 11:28 am

    Is there anything worse than being at work and some person, comes through the line, with an angry agenda and won’t even have the common courtesy of giving their name and the media were all over Clare Curran.
12. ankerawshark 12

    13 September 2018 at 12:18 pm

    Ok I accept politicians won’t be perfect and that both parties will have this type of behaviour. The question that comes out of this for me is has Gerry ever been punished by the National leadership for his bad behaviour? (I genuinely don’t know the answer to this). I know Key did nothing about the airport incidence. So my view is that unfortunately there will be those politicians who behave badly, break the law etc as history shows us. BUT what does the leader do about it??????? Because if the leader doesn’t discipline them in some way, then they get the message that bullying, breaking the law etc is o.k…………………………..

    So far there has been a consequence for the ministers who have mucked up under Jacinda. Phil T using his phone on plane, Clare C, and Meka has stood aside pending review.

    Bridges really has to do something about Brownlee (not sacking, but tap on the hand type thing ) otherwise his calls for Jacinda to act tough lack credibility.
    • alwyn 12.1

      13 September 2018 at 3:39 pm

      What were the consequences to Twyford?
      He is still there, unfortunately for New Zealand.
      • Dukeofurl 12.1.1

        13 September 2018 at 3:44 pm

        he was stood aside for the time being for his mistake. A Parking ticket level offence

        Key refused to remove Brownlee from that portfolio….. even though its was a much more serious level…. plus involves his usual arrogant manner
        • alwyn 12.1.1.1

          13 September 2018 at 3:56 pm

          And Twyford remained as Minister of Transport.
          I really can’t see any difference in the results In both cases the offer of a resignation was refused. The offending Minister was later fined for the offence.
          • Ankerrawshark 12.1.1.1.1

            13 September 2018 at 5:04 pm

            Tywford was stood aside from his duty as minister of transport. Then fined. That is a consequence.

            Gerry brownlie, nothing from key.

            IMO ignoring airport security far more serious than Phil’s offence.

            See alywyn if you are going to criticise jacinda re disciplining her ministers you have to make sure Nationals house is in order. This is especially so of current offences such as brownlees.
            • alwyn 12.1.1.1.1.1

              13 September 2018 at 5:58 pm

              You claim that
              “Tywford was stood aside from his duty as minister of transport”
              Rubbish. He was removed for a little while from a very minor part of the job. That was The Civil Aviation Authority. He remained as the Minister of Transport.

              “Twyford has lost responsibility for the Civil Aviation Authority after the incident on a domestic flight.”
              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12058025
      • Incognito 12.1.2

        13 September 2018 at 4:18 pm

        He got fined $500 and made an unreserved apology.

        https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/minister-accepts-caa-findings-fine-and-reiterates-apology
        • alwyn 12.1.2.1

          13 September 2018 at 6:06 pm

          Gerry also paid a fine and apologised.
          “At the time, Brownlee publicly apologised for the incident. He said he acted “without thought” and put staff in “a compromised position”.”
          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/85722017/report-reveals-details-of-gerry-brownlee-airport-incident

          Cost him a bit more money though.
          It doesn’t seem to have been considered as terribly important though.
          Of 237 offenders he was the only person to have been fined.
          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/84038571/airport-security-breach-data-shows-brownlee-only-culprit-made-to-pay-fine

          Seems about equal to me.
          • Muttonbird 12.1.2.1.1

            13 September 2018 at 6:19 pm

            Making a call when taxiing, and barging past flight staff are equal in your eyes?

            I think you have a major prejudice there, son.
            • In Vino 12.1.2.1.1.1

              13 September 2018 at 6:54 pm

              Hats off to alwyn if he manages a reply to that, Muttonbird. He usually nitpicks punctiliously until his folly is clearly pointed out, then flits off to nitpick somewhere else. Right wing troll. But let us wait and see..
          • Dukeofurl 12.1.2.1.2

            13 September 2018 at 8:53 pm

            That was a whitwash comparison. Employees not wearing identity cards doesnt compare with what Brownlee did. Those are true minor breaches.

            key didn’t take any action either. Zero zilch . Even Collins got the heave ho eventually
          • Ankerrawshark 12.1.2.1.3

            13 September 2018 at 9:26 pm

            It’s not about what civil aviation did to tywford or brownlee.

            Tywford got a fairly minor consequence from ardern, but it was a consequence….”…….John key to brownlee over airport security breach???????um nothing. Key a but weak wouldn’t you say
13. appleboy 13

    13 September 2018 at 12:20 pm

    Oh that’s alright Brownleg just thought he was talking to a different lawyer, so the bullying confrontational language and not declaring who you are is completely fine then. What a vomit inducing defence!
14. chris73 14

    13 September 2018 at 12:23 pm

    If you are going to bully someone*, and don’t want blowback, then make sure its a lawyer or something as equally odious, like a journalist

    *You really shouldn’t bully people
15. Delia 15

    13 September 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Fact is, if he wanted Adina, he should have introduced himself and asked to speak to her. I think Labour need to complain to the Leader about this.
    • Dennis Frank 15.1

      13 September 2018 at 3:15 pm

      He ought to have done exactly that. No excuse for not asking for the person he wanted to talk to. However he has asked the firm to release his phone call, apparently, so maybe he did? Can’t really judge him guilty without that evidence.
      • Muttonbird 15.1.1

        13 September 2018 at 3:20 pm

        He’s already admitted he had no idea who he was talking to.
        • Dennis Frank 15.1.1.1

          13 September 2018 at 3:25 pm

          Hmm. Possibly he asked for the person he wanted to talk to and got told she wasn’t available, so he vented at whoever answered.
        • alwyn 15.1.1.2

          13 September 2018 at 3:47 pm

          He said he thought he was talking to Adina Thorn, didn’t he?
          Actually, and this is simply an hypothesis, the phone was probably answered by someone who gave the Company name. It is quite normal of course.
          Just as when you call any other company they will normally answer with the company name rather than their own.
          Given that Adina Thorn is both the name of the firm and the name of the person it is not unreasonable that he should think he was talking to the person “Adina Thorn” if the answerer gave that name..
          • Muttonbird 15.1.1.2.1

            13 September 2018 at 3:58 pm

            You’d want to know who you were talking to if you were about to go on a tirade in an attempt to intimidate a person into not pursuing a case.

            You might not offer your own identity though…and he didn’t.
            • Chuck 15.1.1.2.1.1

              13 September 2018 at 7:05 pm

              “You might not offer your own identity though…and he didn’t.”

              Nor did the “junior lawyer” offer up her identity. Class 101 when you answer an incoming phone call is to say who you are. Not just the company name…who just happens to be the same as the chief.

              Maybe this is a lesson to all…when you answer a phone call each party introduces themselves to one another!!
          • The Unliving 15.1.1.2.2

            13 September 2018 at 4:38 pm

            Just as when you call any other company they will normally answer with the company name rather than their own.

            No, they will always say their name as well as the company name. Pretty basic customer service that.

            Given that Adina Thorn is both the name of the firm and the name of the person it is not unreasonable that he should think he was talking to the person “Adina Thorn” if the answerer gave that name.

            Incorrect. Adina Thorn is Principal – I hardly think she is going to be answering the phones. Unless Brownlee is a complete imbecile he would know this too.
            • alwyn 15.1.1.2.2.1

              13 September 2018 at 6:16 pm

              Well their contact details do list her direct telephone number, so she may just do so on occasion.
              http://www.adinathorn.co.nz/contact-us/contact-details/

              There are also statements on the website suggest that you contact the lady “directly”.
              “If you know of a matter that could lend itself to being brought as a class action (either an existing or a new claim), please contact Adina directly.”

              Many firms telephones are simply answered with the company name. They don’t “always” give the person’s own name as well.
    • Incognito 15.2

      13 September 2018 at 3:31 pm

      I think Labour need to complain to the Leader about this.

      It has got nothing to do with Labour nor with the Government (if that’s what you actually meant).

      This is about a dick being a dick and other dicks saying “so he just kind of unleashed, you know how what a dick he is”. It’s endemic; the former head dick was quite proud of his dicking around: https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-key-defends-pulling-waitress-ponytail-as-horsing-around-6297009
16. Dennis Frank 16

    13 September 2018 at 4:16 pm

    It’s also possible that Brownlee has decided he wants to be Minister of Bullying in the next National government, so is getting in some early practice for the job. “Let’s see, where’s bullying accepted practice? Apart from schools, I mean. Law! And there just happens to be a suitable local pretext! Cool!!”

    RNZ quotes him saying this: “They wrote to me as a householder so I spoke to them as a householder.” Given the collective reputation of lawyers, one must concede that many householders would be dead keen to bully one, given a suitable opportunity. Probably more so in Chch than anywhere else in Aotearoa, too…
17. Morrissey 17

    13 September 2018 at 6:24 pm

    Is that fat b+$%ard at it AGAIN?!!!??

    https://thestandard.org.nz/brownlee-bullies-gns-staff/
    • Muttonbird 17.1

      13 September 2018 at 6:27 pm

      He’s not fat, he’s big-boned.
      • Morrissey 17.1.1

        13 September 2018 at 6:34 pm

        Yes of course. Apologies to Mr Brownlee, who also has a walk-on part in these declassified caucus notes from 2005….

        https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2017/12/national-party-emergency-caucus-meeting.html

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