Can the Maori Party save itself?

Written By: - Date published: 8:11 am, April 23rd, 2010 - 59 comments
Categories: maori party - Tags:

On Wednesday, I asked whether we, the Left, could save the Maori Party. The response from Maori Party supporters was a lot of misplaced invective at Labour. Labour isn’t making the Maori Party support a government that is working against its core values. Perhaps, my question should have been – can the Maori Party save itself?

See it’s not by Labour’s standards that the Maori Party is failing. The Maori Party is failing according to its own values, which have always been of the Left as Pita Sharples himself said a few months ago.

You don’t need a whole list of examples of the Maori Party proclaiming one position and then either kowtowing or even actively supporting the opposite policy but as we’re here:

  • The Maori Party said it would only vote for an ETS that strengthened Labour’s one. Instead, they ending up actively supporting an ETS that did the exact opposite. In a debacle that destroyed her mana, Rahui Katene even tried to suppress her own report objecting to National’s ETS once the party decided to sell out.
  • Sharples has called prisons a disgrace and advocated for reform away from our prison-centred correction system. Since he became Associate Minister for Corrections laws lengthening sentences have been passed and the prison population has increased by over 500 (6%) – over half of whom are Maori. Sharple’s ambition now is for an iwi to have a slice of a profit-making prison, locking up even more Maori.
  • The Maori Party lead a 10,000 person hikoi against the Supercity. Since then, and without any of their concerns having been satisfied, the Maori Party has repeatedly voted for the Supercity.
  • Tariana Turia has long been concerned about Maori welfare dependency but she is anti-beneficiary bashing. When National brought beneficiary bashing legislation to the House this year, Turia railed against it in the media but then voted for it. She claimed she had to as Associate Minister for Social Development, which is rubbish, Winston Peters happily voted against the China Free Trade Deal – because. it. was. against. his. party’s. values.
  • Since Turia became Associate Minister, 27,000 more Maori have gone on to benefits and 26,000 Maori have become unemployed.
  • The Maori Party wants to take GST off food. Next month they’ll vote to increase it by 20% not only on food but everything else too.
  • The Maori Party votes confidence and supply for a government that has removed workers’ rights, given a paltry minimum wage increase, weakened environmental protections, and any number of other things that the Maori Party opposes and has even voted against. Yet they continue to support that government.
  • Hone Harawira called National’s offer on the foreshore and seabed “dumb”. Turia said their people would “struggle” to support it and Chris Finlayson has admitted that Maori Party supporters are strongly against the deal at hui. Yet, mark my words, in June or July Harawira, Turia, and the rest will vote for essentially the same deal, with an insignificant sweetener or two thrown in, which they will display with all the pride that the Emperor did his new clothes – just as they did with the ETS.

When we talk about these same failings as National’s fault, National’s broken promises, the Maori Party supporters are right with us. But when it comes to seeing that, as part of the same government, the Maori Party is equally culpable if not more so because they’re acting against their own values, that old doublethink takes over.

I look forward to the responses from the Maori party supporters. Try to get beyond blaming Labour. They’re not the ones in government with the Tories, every day moving further and further from the ideals they used to stand for.

I fear that, despite all the examples above, what we’ll get is a continued denial that the Maori Party even has a problem.

59 comments on “Can the Maori Party save itself? ”

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  1. Lew 1
    23 April 2010 at 8:27 am

    I’d say you’re simply operating from a position of misunderstanding or ignorance as to what those values really are. If it’s by their own values that they’re failing, their electorate will punish them for that failure. They’re not answerable to you.

    I agree that there are problems, but that’s not the end of the world. All political movements, especially brand new political movements, have early failures and difficulties. I think there’s an unwillingness to see the long game — a tendency to judge solely on the basis of tactical policy gains in the short term, leading you to write off the movement after barely half a term in government, and barely five years in existence.

    On the other hand, I would (and have) argue that the way Labour treats the party — and the churlishness shown here — is contrary to its own principles and the principles of liberal progressivism. The difference is that I do understand those values, and Labour is answerable to me — I’m part of its core constituency.

    L

    • Marty G 1.1
      23 April 2010 at 8:58 am

      Nah. They’re not answerable to me. They’re answerable by their own values. And I, like anyone,
      have the right to judge someone by their own values.

      Saying ‘well, if they’re bad they voters will get them’ is a cop out. It’s the same argument the righties are making when the respond to the Nats’ failing by pointing to the polls.

      I do have the right to comment on this lew – trying to undermine the legitimacy of even asking these questions is a really sad, pathetic play and one I wouldn’t have expected from you, frankly.

      Are you denying that the Maori Party has articulated their values then acted oppositely as outlined above? If so, specific examples please.

      • Lew 1.1.1
        23 April 2010 at 9:19 am

        Marty, don’t play the “UR STIFLEING TEH DEBATES” card — I’ve come to this thread and the last in perfectly good faith and encouraged debate, so far from shutting it out.

        What I’m saying it that you do have the right to judge them based on their values, if you understand those values. Which it seems to me that you’ve demonstrated you don’t. If you don’t understand their values, you can still judge them — but it’s not on their values, it’s on something else. Regardless of whether you do or not, you still have the right to comment — absolutely. And asking the questions is fine, and I’m not trying to undermine its legitimacy. Only to say that it’s a bit aimless.

        By way of analogy, I think the music of Taylor Swift is empty airheaded bollocks. But my opinion on this is largely irrelevant because I don’t “get” what it is she’s trying to do. I was never going to buy her records anyway. I’m judging by irrelevant standards. Those who judge her by her own standards (mostly in their early teens) draw different conclusions than I do, and it’s them who count.

        The point about the “māori party values” you glibly glom together — their declared kaupapa — that they’re basic matters of principle which can be implemented in a huge range of different ways. It’s not a left manifesto as you claim it is. I agree that there’s a greater affinity toward the left and toward collective welfare and other left-like principles, but that’s not to say they’re a Marxist party, and by judging them as you would an orthodox left minor party like the Alliance, they’re always going to fail. But that’s ok, because you’re never going to vote for them anyway, and you’ve misunderstood what it is they’re trying to do.

        Some years ago I wrote an explication of the party’s kaupapa basis; mostly to try to figure out what it was the party stood for and to educate myself about these issues, and as preparation for a wider research project examining the party’s impact on political discourse. I’ll dig it out when I get a chance, and that’ll provide some background for what I mean when I say you — and most non-Māori, and probably some Māori too — don’t seem to understand them. It’s also fair enough that you don’t — their philosophical underpinnings and political values are culturally quite opaque and not very clearly articulated, and there’s a fair argument that they take positions according to circumstance. But just because it’s poorly articulated and doesn’t make sense to someone without knowledge of the cultural systems from which it emerges doesn’t mean this party and its philosophical basis is meaningless to those who do.

        L

        • Marty G 1.1.1.1
          23 April 2010 at 9:25 am

          You haven’t refuted any of the examples of the Maori Party articulating one value and then doing the opposite.

          Give me examples of the Maori Party getting the government it is a part of to advance the Maori Party’s values. And tell me how that out weighs the examples of the opposite that I’ve provided.

          • Lew 1.1.1.1.1
            23 April 2010 at 9:34 am

            It’s not a great secret. Whanau Ora. Foreshore and Seabed Act. UNDRIP. Judge them when they’re bedded in. Most crucially, demonstrating that Māori aren’t wedded to Labour. It doesn’t need to “outweigh” the other stuff, which would almost all have passed with or without them.

            I spent half the day on this yesterday, I’m not going to do so again today. But my point again, in bold italics so you can’t ignore it: there’s no point in judging them on short-term tactical policy gains halfway through a first term, because that’s not what they’re about.

            L

            • Marty G 1.1.1.1.1.1
              23 April 2010 at 9:36 am

              you have no problem judging National the quality of policies as they’re enacted or by their failure to deliver on promises. You don’t buy the righties’ ‘give it time’ excuse. But you’re making the same excuse for another party in the government.

              • Neil …
                23 April 2010 at 9:45 am

                The MP have proposed GST be removed from healthy food – as in Australia. Labour’s repsonse has been to insult them, not engage in serious discusion – to insult them.

                That’s been the pattern. Insult, infantalise, patronise.

              • Lew …
                23 April 2010 at 9:50 am

                National are in a strong position — the strongest position of any government in a decade and a half. It’s not really comparable. Teh appropriate counterfactual is “being outside government and watching ACT and the National party ride roughshod over the country”, not “if the māori party would just stand up for itself and (somehow) enact its agenda despite the opposition of eleven times its number of opposition MPs.”

                For someone who claims to despise the symbolic so much, you sure are keen on the māori party going down in a blaze of futile glory, rather than achieving what goals it can.

                L

              • Lew …
                23 April 2010 at 10:53 am

                Err, fail:

                eleven times its number of opposition MPs

                That should be government MPs, natch.

                L

  2. tc 2
    23 April 2010 at 8:38 am

    The MP has 2 major problems….the leaders. Babes in the woods with that self serving touch.

    They’ve also mastered the CT tactics and bleat on about ‘what Labour didn’t do for them’ to deflect from their actions.

    I have faith that the MP will get it right but sadly this’s the downside of having few options at the top….they need to move quick though or alot of hard slog may get lost in 2011.

  3. mickysavage 3
    23 April 2010 at 8:40 am

    That is a compelling list of failures Marty.

    I don’t disagree with Lew that the electorate is the ultimate decision maker in the matter but Maoridom cannot be happy with what is happening. The Maori Party is being led by the nose.

    Lew should not equate Shane Jones’s public comments with Labour’s view of the Maori Party. I can assure him that Shane’s comments earned him a few kicks to the shins and there is a strong feeling amongst many in the party that the relationship with the Maori Party needs to be cordial and improved and that there is a great deal of beliefs that Labour and Maoridom we share in common.

    Open warfare will not improve this relationship and it should be remembered that the Maori Party is a representation (of sorts) of Maori asperations.

    • Lew 3.1
      23 April 2010 at 8:44 am

      That’s great to hear, micky, and I look forward to seeing some evidence of it.

      L

      • Marty G 3.1.1
        23 April 2010 at 8:59 am

        You look forward to seeing some evidence that the Maori party is a representation of Maori aspirations? Me too.

        • Lew 3.1.1.1
          23 April 2010 at 9:20 am

          More than anything I look forward to Labour seeing the rest of the left as allies rather than as competitors.

          L

          • Marty G 3.1.1.1.1
            23 April 2010 at 9:23 am

            As predicted you’re trying to make the MP’s betrayal of its values something to do with Labour.

            • Lew 3.1.1.1.1.1
              23 April 2010 at 9:25 am

              As I said: if you want to help them, make them a better offer. That’s what Labour can do.

              L

              • Marty G …
                23 April 2010 at 9:26 am

                It’s nothing to do with Labour. this is about the Maori Party living up to the Maori Party’s values.

                Your position seems to be that it is Labour’s responsibility to stop the Maori Party selling out its own values. It’s bizarre.

              • Lew …
                23 April 2010 at 9:29 am

                They would say that’s what they’re doing. You just don’t understand their values. So back around the infinite loop we go.

                L

              • Marty G …
                23 April 2010 at 9:38 am

                I’ve quoted their values above.

                It’s cop out to say that we can’t understand the Maori Party’s values as if they exist on a different mystic plane. Next you’ll be saying I don’t understand National’s values and so can’t judge their failings.

              • Lew …
                23 April 2010 at 9:45 am

                It’s not that they exist on a different mystic plane, it’s that they’re from a different cultural background. You can understand them; you just don’t. When all you have is eurocentric Marxism, everything looks like class struggle. You can understand National pretty well because that’s how they see things as well (though from the opposite perspective).

                L

    • Neil 3.2
      23 April 2010 at 9:22 am

      It’s very hard to believe that Labour have moved on from their vendetta against the MP and their patronising of maori in general. Only a few days ago we saw their reaction to the UNDRIP.

      They couldn’t even bring themselves to support that – which does make me wonder if their objection to it when they were in power was in anway in good faith.(currently they are spinning the line that this will result in a new Grievance Industry, so there you go).

      There’s been a very clear pattern in Labour’s behaviour that is more than just random outbursts from the thuggish elements. And it’s very disturbing to see the reaction of many Labour supporters.

  4. marty mars 4
    23 April 2010 at 9:07 am

    It seems to me that you apply a double standard. Somehow the maori party has to be morally above every other party, including the one you support.

    No one is saying that there aren’t issues with the maori party and their inexperience but you fail to acknowledge the fundamental truth that the maori party is working for maori. And maori are made up of the good, bad and ugly they are right wing and left wing they are liberals and socialists they are neocons and environmentalists – i just don’t understand what the problem with understanding that is – but i really do understand – it’s all actually about labour and the failure of their leadership and party as evidenced very well by this weeks headlines. Labour isn’t going to get in by destroying the maori party – but that is the option currently selected. You claim to be concerned about the maori party constituents but no one is fooled – you just want all those votes to go to labour (like they used to) and you want the maori party to go away (just like the past) and you want the fake left labour party to kindly look after maori and guide them into society.

    The maori party was formed because of labour’s weakness and every day this type of post and the various media soundbites by the fakeleft just contuinues the widening of the gap between the maori party and labour – and that is what you want. And that is the tragedy.

    Your crocodille tears hide your big teeth.

    Another point i have is that this approach of yours of saying this is what maori think, this is what maori believe is so insulting. You don’t have a clue and your every utterance reinforces that. You make up stuff to fit your own agenda and you are dishonest about it. You have no credibility.

    But i am sure when, eventually, labour gets it’s shit together and they need to form a government they will come greasing around offering flowery praise to the maori party, and in the best interests of maori, they will allow labour to govern – so don’t get too sanctimonious.

    The maori party is not perfect and they have made plenty of mistakes that have horrified me as a left voter for them BUT they have made more gains for maori than any other party.

    • interestd 4.1
      23 April 2010 at 9:25 am

      MartyMars – and these gains you speak of are?
      in any order will be fine thanks
      perhaps the top 15?
      or 5..
      captcha – estimate

  5. Marty G 5
    23 April 2010 at 9:22 am

    “The maori party is not perfect and they have made plenty of mistakes that have horrified me as a left voter for them BUT they have made more gains for maori than any other party.”

    What gains? double Maori unemployment? More Maori in prison?

    And let’s not be selectively blind. Labour halved Maori unemployment, improved Maori health, increased Maori wages.

    Yup, Labour got it wrong on the F&S. And that’s why people like me supported the foundation of the Maori Party.

    It was an opportunity for Maori to have their Left values without compromising on the F&S. The shame of it is that they have sold out their values, and are about to sell out on the F&S too.

    • marty mars 5.1
      23 April 2010 at 10:03 am

      maori recieved advantage as in your examples but not specifically because they were maori – the gaps haven’t closed or do you blame the gnats solely for 50% of male prisoners being maori and 60% of female prisoners being maori?

      you don’t have a clue what maori values are – what are non-maori values?

      you maybe able to say what the maori party values are because they state them but it is an error to extrapolate that to all

  6. mickysavage 6
    23 April 2010 at 9:24 am

    Marty Mars

    “The maori party was formed because of labour’s weakness”

    I thought it was the foreshore and seabed issue?

    I never saw that issue in the same way as the Maori Party and I always thought it was quite complex. I do struggle to understand why the current proposal which in essence is a slight change in terminology is fine by the MP but Labour’s proposal was so bad.

    this approach of yours of saying this is what maori think, this is what maori believe is so insulting

    I do not understand Marty to be saying this at all. He is saying that policy by policy the MP is failing and this is a perfectly valid criticism. Do you disagree that any of Marty’s bulletpoints do not represent a failure on the part of the MP?

    • marty mars 6.1
      23 April 2010 at 9:58 am

      weakness in giving in to the racists around the F&S issue

      the current debate around it is not all sorted as evidenced by the response from hui – pollyanna is and will struggle

      he might not be saying it on this post but it is a theme from multiple posts

  7. Rob M 7
    23 April 2010 at 9:27 am

    Can we move past all the waffle on values and get some hard data on the changes to the lot of the average bro since the Maori Renaissance kicked off. So Labour and Maori party values differ, got that one. Symbolic victories have some value in the Maori world, got that one too. Lew is right it is too early to judge a movement or the efficacy of Whanau Ora but may I suggest National are playing us all for chumps: Dividing the left from the Maori left, appeasing Turia with her own ministerial portfolio all the while dog whistling to the red neck and the right : “Don’t worry boys none of this is binding, we’re going take a chainsaw to welfare, they’re not getting anymore money and it’s only matter of time before we have another Huata on our hands and we’ll have the perfect excuse to slash that too.” Working for which Maori MartyMars? Cos they can’t be working for all of “the good, bad and ugly” the “right wing and left wing” the “liberals and socialists” and “neocons and environmentalists.” Call me cynical but the naivety on show here and on the previous post is quite disheartening. National are waltzing towards a second term and we’re here engaging in racist rants. Crosby Textor must be laughing into their gold-rimmed beer mugs.

    • WillyMaley 7.1
      23 April 2010 at 9:40 am

      Rob,
      Nail on the head.
      Sadly next years election is a foregone conclusion, which will be a travesty for this country.

    • marty mars 7.2
      23 April 2010 at 9:55 am

      I agree with you RobM that national are playing the left as chumps.

      In terms of who the maori party are working for – maori is the answer and that is why IMO they will, eventually, work with labour again too.

      • Neil 7.2.1
        23 April 2010 at 10:32 am

        that will happen when, if, Labour get around to accepting the political reality of the MP just like they have with the Green Party. But I think that will only happen when there’s significant change in the Labour leadership. At present there are too many who think maori owe Labour.

    • Bright Red 7.3
      23 April 2010 at 10:01 am

      “National are waltzing towards a second term and we’re here engaging in racist rants”

      It’s not a racist rant to question a party just because that party is maori. I think tha’ts a shameful attempt to delegitimise debate.

      And as we talk about national waltzing towards a second term we have to remember who their dancing partner is.

      things would get a lot hard for National if the Maori party stood by its principles and left the government.

      • Armchair Critic 7.3.1
        23 April 2010 at 10:25 am

        “things would get a lot hard for National if the Maori party stood by its principles and left the government”
        ‘cept for two things:
        1. National would still be able to govern with ACT’s support. Horrible though it may be, I prefer a National/ACT/MP government to a government with just National and ACT.
        2. The MP won’t walk away until after the 2011.
        Meanwhile, Labour need to stop treating the MP like their main oppositon and National like a future coalition partner.
        Marty G, your posts on this subject have been well considered and thought through. And while you may well be right (your list of bullet points is very convincing), in writing these posts you are risking not being helpful to the objective of getting National out of government in 2011. Does this make me a concern troll? Possibly – but quite frankly I don’t care if it does. I just want National gone.

  8. Green Tea 8
    23 April 2010 at 9:43 am

    Your assertion that you, and the Labour Party, are the “Left” is grossly inaccurate.

  9. Pascal's bookie 9
    23 April 2010 at 9:50 am

    Seems to me a lot of it comes down to priorities.

    Let’s say both parties basically agree on policy direction, and we’ll say that that direction is defined by supporting policies a,b,c,d, and e.

    If a big party recognises that policies ‘c’ and ‘d’ are electorally difficult then they will quite likely sacrafice gains in those areas to enable them to progress in a,b and e.

    There may well be a constituency within that big party that disagrees with that assesment. For them ‘c’ and ‘d’ are very important. They are goping to be pissed off about it, and fair enough. They clearly have the right to take that to the electorate and see if they can get ‘c’ and ‘d’ on the agenda.

    If they get in parliament then obviously they are going to do what they can to get ‘c’ and ‘d’ done. If they can also get a b and e done then chances are they will do that. Afterall, they agree with those things too!

    If the original big party can’t form a government though, and ‘a’ ‘b’ and ‘e’ are for the meantime off the agenda, then the small party has a duty to try and get ‘c’ and ‘d’ done anyway, if they can.

    If in fact they can get those things done by making the other big party, which usually opposes those sorts of things, do them then whatever way you cut it it’s a win.

    The loss side of it, not getting ‘a’ ‘b’ and ‘e’ done misses the point that those things aren’t on the agenda anyway. The party that also supports those things is in opposition. The fact that ‘c’ and ‘d’ have been progressed is a win for all parties that think ‘c’ and ‘d’ are good things.

    The fact that a, b and e are not being progressed is not the fault of the smaller party, though obviously they should still be active in trying to progress them. Once the available progress on c and d has been dealt with, that obligation becomes more pronounced.

  10. Anne 10
    23 April 2010 at 9:55 am

    PHEW… SOMEONE HAS SAID IT AT LAST!
    Thanks Rob M for putting it all in a nut-shell.

    “Call me cynical but the naivety on show here and on the previous post is quite disheartening. National are waltzing towards a second term and we’re here engaging in racist rants. Crosby Textor must be laughing into their gold-rimmed beer mugs.”

    CT won’t be the only ones laughing, and in the meantime your average Maori (and Pakeha) is being done over like a dog’s breakfast.

  11. Alexandra 11
    23 April 2010 at 10:03 am

    Yes and the real fight is with National.

    • marty mars 11.1
      23 April 2010 at 10:07 am

      that is so right and while these anti maori party posts get put up – for no reason – it’s not as if the posters or commenters can even vote for the maori party, the gnats continue with their demolition of this country.

      If i was cynical I’d wonder who was working for who.

      • Margaret 11.1.1
        23 April 2010 at 10:28 am

        ‘it’s not as if the posters or commenters can even vote for the maori party’

        umm why is that Marty Mars? Is this some obscure reference I don’t understand? or are you implyig noone else on here is Maori? or do you actually not understand that you don’t have to be ‘Maori’ to be on the Maori electoral roll and that any voter can give their party vote to the Maori Party no matter which roll they are on?

        • marty mars 11.1.1.1
          23 April 2010 at 10:41 am

          Good point margaret i withdraw and apologise

          i hadn’t thought/considered/realised that any voter can give their party vote to the maori party

  12. Anne 12
    23 April 2010 at 10:36 am

    @ marty mars
    They are only anti-Maori Party posts in so much as the MP is not living up to it’s election year manifesto. They have been selling out their own people whose standard of living is dropping by the hour – almost. All the symbolism in the world is not going to put better wages in their pockets… buy healthy, affordable food… put a decent roof over their heads… educate their children… affordable health care… and so it goes on. You get these things right, and the rest will start to fall into place.

    • marty mars 12.1
      23 April 2010 at 10:51 am

      I don’t think they are ‘selling out their own people’

      but my view is that the real enemy are ones that want to comodify everything and place monetary value on it so that it can be bought and sold

      labours fight with the maori party is a waste of time and energy – but someone is winning

  13. pollywog 13
    23 April 2010 at 10:48 am

    I would imagine all bets will be off come election time as to who the Maori Party will support in the post election horsetrade.

    I doubt the Nats can get them to sign some sort of pre nuptial agreement based on false promises Key has proven he can’t deliver on, or that they’ll still have the numbers to go it alone by next year.

    In the meantime its get in while the gettings good for the Maori Party and if anything its only for them that the future is looking bright. Makes you wonder why a Maori party wasn’t formed years ago but i guess its that perfect mystical timing of being in tune with the elements that alot of eurocentrist dont get.

    Misreading the winds of change can be disastrous though so i hope theres some talented apprentice navigators backing up Sharples and Turia.

    • The Voice of Reason 13.1
      23 April 2010 at 11:36 am

      Er, it has been tried before. Mana Motuhake was led by the late Matiu Rata (himself also a former Labour MP). If I remember rightly, they were solidly left wing and were part of the original Alliance, even getting their member Sandra Lee elected to parliament.

      A forerunner, but radically different, to the dull witted and conservative Maori party.

      • pollywog 13.1.1
        23 April 2010 at 11:56 am

        oh chur…i guess the gods weren’t favourable then or maybe it was all in the alienated branding.

        Dull witted and conservative seems to get more accomplished than being radical and intelligent.

        I’d imagine Maui the trickster would have seemed a bit dull and un-inspiring to his older bros until his Nan taught him how to read with the magic jawbone.

        Theres something to be said about slowing down the sun, letting your hook run deep and not putting all your fish in one canoe.

        • Lew 13.1.1.1
          23 April 2010 at 12:03 pm

          Well, the Alliance fell apart because it was a bit of a frankenstein, and got hijacked by competing egos. It’s a damned shame, it had more potential than any minor party before or since.

          L

          • pollywog 13.1.1.1.1
            23 April 2010 at 12:21 pm

            Do you reckon competing egos will be the end of this current alliance/coalition of the unwilling ?

            I mean, ACT, UF, the MP and the Nats are a freakish combo of the undead in itself.

            • Lew 13.1.1.1.1.1
              23 April 2010 at 12:24 pm

              I think all those presently in power have learned important lessons from the Alliance.

              L

              • lprent …
                23 April 2010 at 2:02 pm

                The real question is what lessons they learnt. Of course if they’d looked back to NZ First in the 1996-99 government they’d have learnt the same lessons.

              • ak …
                23 April 2010 at 2:06 pm

                Yep Lew, those presently in power being the Nats…..and the big lesson from the Alliance was no different to that from time immemorial, and as demonstrated on this very thread and topic – that the Left is its own worst enemy: a recidivist sucker for divide and conquer. A grotesque irony for a movement of progression; that it continually falls to the base instinct of lashing out – to the fatal detriment of the noble wider cause.

                Motivation is the essential element to be constantly invoked and re-examined; e.g. a huge section of the population still languishes and dies eight years earlier than anyone else: do we want to focus on and fix that – or is it more important to “win” verbal scraps and that Jim once told me to shut up. Until Labour celebrates the MP gains (however limited) – or even NACT progressive nudges – it’s holding itself down in the pit.

                (and Armchair Critic reminds us of a vital point: currently, without MP it’s ACT in charge. Think hard before wishing them oblivion)

  14. Ianmac 14
    23 April 2010 at 11:40 am

    I think that it is wrong to alienate the MP with detail about their success/failures. The perception will be “Those Lefties hate Maori.” Wasted opportunity. The real test will be what happens with the reality of Customary Rights and gains or not over the Seabed and Foreshore, and that is a wait and see.
    I do think that Key and Co are onto a good thing. I can hear them snigger from here. And no amount of our bluster will counter it.

    • Pete 14.1
      23 April 2010 at 1:06 pm

      Agreed.

      The political Left needs to focus on consensus politics, and commonality. The Greens are better at this as a minority party seeking relevance (without selling out).

      I guess it’s the perception of ‘selling out’ that is really the crux of this MP-criticism (alongside associated social/economic change dynamics).

      What I’d really like to see is Labour/Greens/MP team up to sort the F&S issue for good (as a mechanism for solidarity on subsequent issues where commonality should/does exist) – but idealogically and politically it’s likely this would be considered a ‘dead rat’ for Labour. Shame really.

      If the MP don’t stand firm on what they want from F&S changes we’ll know that they were only in it for the ‘baubles’ (I f*ckin’ hope not) – as hinted by Sharples’ in a Herald article a while ago – though potentially tongue-in-cheek, it’s still not a ‘good look’…

  15. gingercrush 15
    23 April 2010 at 1:13 pm

    I see Marty G you continue spouting the same lies and bullshit in regards to the Foreshore and Seabed as you have every article.

  16. JonL 16
    23 April 2010 at 2:01 pm

    I don’t care if they do fail. Having voted for them in 2 elections, I (and several aquaintance’s) will not be voting for them again!
    They have been a great disappointment!

  17. Jenny 17
    23 April 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Good news everybody, finally a chance for the Labour Party to find some common ground with the Maori Party and end the sectarian slanging match.

    Rahui Katen’s bill for the removal of GST from healthy food goes for it’s first reading.

    Supporting Rahui Katene’s bill to remove GST from healthy food would be a good start for the left to win them back from National and ACT who have vowed to vote this bill down.

    http://www.maoriparty.org/index.php?pag=nw&id=986&p=katenes-gst-off-healthy-food-bill-gets-pulled.html

    The vital question is where will Labour stand?

    There are only four possible options

    Which one will Labour choose?

    #1 Will the Labour Party parliamentary opposition collectively decide to abstain?

    #2 Will the Labour Party parliamentary opposition collectively decide to vote with National and ACT?

    #3 Will the Labour Party parliamentary opposition collectively make the decision to support this bill?

    #4 Will the Labour Party parliamentary Caucus do a cowardly cop-out and call for a conscience vote from Labour MPs?
    Sending the message that the Labour Party oppose this bill in practice and would not support it in government.

    In my opinion the most disastrous choice for the Labour Party would be option #4
    Because as weak as option #1 is, and as awful as option #2 is, at least it would be an honest statement of Labour’s position on the sanctity of this regressive tax. But beware the electorate won’t be fooled by choosing option #4 and will conclude that they are being patronised.

    I suppose the question for the writers of The Standard is; What in my opinion is the principled position, and should I recommend it, or just keep quiet?

    Hopefully not all of you will give in to the temptation to reach for that lever that lowers the cone of silence.

    [lprent: There were multiples of something similar to this in spam (naked link most likely). Letting the last one out, I’ll leave the other 4 in trash for the moment. Yell if you want them released.. ]

  18. Anne 18
    24 April 2010 at 7:30 pm

    @ Jenny

    Here is Trevor Mallard’s take on the bill over at Red Alert.

    “Spot the irony

    In two weeks the Maori Party will vote for a very silly bill to take GST off “Healthy Food’

    Just imagine trying to define that. And how much of each we are allowed each hour/day/week before GST kicks in. And the army of inspectors to check the food. And the increase in GST or other tax to cover the diff.

    And then two weeks after that the Maori Party will vote to increase GST on healthy foods to 15%.

    Hypocrites.”

    I confess I don’t know who is right.

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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell On When Racism Comes Disguised As Anti-racism
    Remember the good old days, back when New Zealand had a PM who could think and speak calmly and intelligently in whole sentences without blustering? Even while Iran’s drones and missiles were still being launched, Helen Clark was live on TVNZ expertly summing up the latest crisis in the Middle ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    4 days ago

  • Govt ignored economic analysis of smokefree reversal
    Costello did not pass on analysis of the benefits of the smokefree reforms to Cabinet, emphasising instead the extra tax revenues of repealing them. Photo: Hagen Hopkins, Getty Images TL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me at 7:26 am today are:The Lead: Casey Costello never passed on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago

  • True Blue.
    True loveYou're the one I'm dreaming ofYour heart fits me like a gloveAnd I'm gonna be true blueBaby, I love youI’ve written about the job cuts in our news media last week. The impact on individuals, and the loss to Aotearoa of voices covering our news from different angles.That by ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • Who is running New Zealand’s foreign policy?
    While commentators, including former Prime Minister Helen Clark, are noting a subtle shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy, which now places more emphasis on the United States, many have missed a key element of the shift. What National said before the election is not what the government is doing now. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago

  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #15
    A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 7, 2024 thru Sat, April 13, 2024. Story of the week Our story of the week is about adults in the room setting terms and conditions of ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Feline Friends and Fragile Fauna The Complexities of Cats in New Zealand’s Conservation Efforts

    Cats, with their independent spirit and beguiling purrs, have captured the hearts of humans for millennia. In New Zealand, felines are no exception, boasting the highest national cat ownership rate globally [definition cat nz cat foundation]. An estimated 1.134 million pet cats grace Kiwi households, compared to 683,000 dogs ...

    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    5 days ago

  • Or is that just they want us to think?
    Nice guy, that Peter Williams. Amiable, a calm air of no-nonsense capability, a winning smile. Everything you look for in a TV presenter and newsreader.I used to see him sometimes when I went to TVNZ to be a talking head or a panellist and we would yarn. Nice guy, that ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Fact Brief – Did global warming stop in 1998?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Did global warming stop in ...
    Skeptical Science
    6 days ago

  • Arguing over a moot point.
    I have been following recent debates in the corporate and social media about whether it is a good idea for NZ to join what is known as “AUKUS Pillar Two.” AUKUS is the Australian-UK-US nuclear submarine building agreement in which … Continue reading → ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago

  • No Longer Trusted: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    Turning Point: “What has turned me away from the mainstream news media is the very strong message that its been sending out for the last few years.” “And what message might that be?” “That the people who own it, the people who run it, and the people who provide its content, really don’t ...
    Bowalley Road
    6 days ago

  • Mortgage rates at 10% anyone?
    No – nothing about that in PM Luxon’s nine-point plan to improve the lives of New Zealanders. But beyond our shores Jamie Dimon, the long-serving head of global bank J.P. Morgan Chase, reckons that the chances of a goldilocks soft landing for the economy are “a lot lower” than the ...
    Point of OrderBy xtrdnry
    6 days ago

  • Sad tales from the left
    Michael Bassett writes –  Have you noticed the odd way in which the media are handling the government’s crackdown on surplus employees in the Public Service? Very few reporters mention the crazy way in which State Service numbers rocketed ahead by more than 16,000 during Labour’s six years, ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government redress for Te Korowai o Wainuiārua
    The Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore its relationship with iwi as the Te Korowai o Wainuiārua Claims Settlement Bill passed its first reading in Parliament today, says Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith. “Historical grievances of Te Korowai o Wainuiārua relate to 19th century warfare, land purchased or taken ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Focus on outstanding minerals permit applications
    New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals is working to resolve almost 150 outstanding minerals permit applications by the end of the financial year, enabling valuable mining activity and signalling to the sector that New Zealand is open for business, Resources Minister Shane Jones says.  “While there are no set timeframes for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Applications open for NZ-Ireland Research Call
    The New Zealand and Irish governments have today announced that applications for the 2024 New Zealand-Ireland Joint Research Call on Agriculture and Climate Change are now open. This is the third research call in the three-year Joint Research Initiative pilot launched in 2022 by the Ministry for Primary Industries and Ireland’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market
    The coalition Government has today announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to encourage landlords back to the rental property market, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The previous Government waged a war on landlords. Many landlords told us this caused them to exit the rental market altogether. It caused worse ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Boosting NZ’s trade and agricultural relationship with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay will visit China next week, to strengthen relationships, support Kiwi exporters and promote New Zealand businesses on the world stage. “China is one of New Zealand’s most significant trade and economic relationships and remains an important destination for New Zealand’s products, accounting for nearly 22 per cent of our good and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Freshwater farm plan systems to be improved
    The coalition Government intends to improve freshwater farm plans so that they are more cost-effective and practical for farmers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay have announced. “A fit-for-purpose freshwater farm plan system will enable farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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