Chris Bishop is tilting at Covid windmills

32 comments on “Chris Bishop is tilting at Covid windmills ”

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1. Pete 1

   26 May 2021 at 12:47 pm

   Bishop is just trying to make out he's relevant. The funny thing is for him to be on about trying to get too many vaccines out of a vial.

   Is that a case of a useless prick complaining about useful pricks?😊
   • mac1 1.1

     26 May 2021 at 3:31 pm

     He's trying to get under the government's skin but he'll have to try another vein as his needle is, to put it bluntly, not even superficial………
2. Patricia Bremner 2

   26 May 2021 at 12:59 pm

   Scary though about the virus in Victoria, and here is hoping those coming to NZ do watch their health and react quickly. Let us hope no asymptomatic cases come over to ski.
3. Tiger Mountain 3

   26 May 2021 at 1:06 pm

   NZ National has a vaccine specialist as well as a General Practitioner in their Parliamentary ranks?

   The main element of luck or good fortune NZ has had so far during COVID–is surely that National was not, and is not, the Government!

   Going by various media statements from the Nats the country closed borders too soon, not soon enough, Travel bubbles should have started sooner, foreign students admitted sooner with their MI conducted on campus…migrant workers admitted sooner etc.

   Many more than 26 New Zealanders would likely have died to date from COVID if National’s more permissive line on borders, lockdowns, isolation and mask wearing had prevailed.
4. Incognito 4

   26 May 2021 at 1:47 pm

   https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1339363304825905152
   • gsays 4.1

     26 May 2021 at 2:28 pm

     I have to admit to a degree of surprise last night when I learnt that there are 4/5/6 or 7 doses in each vial.

     Not sure why, but I figured it would be one dose, one vial.
     • Incognito 4.1.1

       26 May 2021 at 3:45 pm

       Nope, the manufacturer’s label says five doses. There was some confusion whether this meant that the left over needed to be discarded but FDA (and others) cleared that up with the manufacturer (see Tweet). Under certain circumstances, it is possible to get seven full doses from one vial. Each shot needs to be 0.3 mL (30 µg) and the total volume is ca. 2.25 mL, which leaves a total unused/dead volume of 0.15 mL in the vial, needles & syringes, which is tight and supa economical/efficient.
       • UncookedSelachimorpha 4.1.1.1

         26 May 2021 at 7:25 pm

         0.3mL = 300 uL

         If the specific density is 1, then 0.3mL = 300 µg
         • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.1.1.1

           26 May 2021 at 7:48 pm

           A 300 µL (0.3 mL) injected dose of the COVID-19 vaccine contains 30 µg of the active component (mRNA). The rest is lipids, salts (including pH buffer salts), sugar (sucrose) and, of course, water.

           https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/HealthU/2021/01/11/a-simple-breakdown-of-the-ingredients-in-the-covid-vaccines/

           https://www.pfizer.co.nz/sites/pfizer.co.nz/files/g10063121/f/202102/NZCMICONSUMER.pdf

           https://theconversation.com/4-things-about-mrna-covid-vaccines-researchers-still-want-to-find-out-154160
           • UncookedSelachimorpha 4.1.1.1.1.1

             28 May 2021 at 6:53 pm

             Ahh. Got it.
       • gsays 4.1.1.2

         26 May 2021 at 7:25 pm

         I (now) understand all that.

         It says to me plenty of chances for human error. I am familiar with how some nurses do drug calcs, part intuition, a dash of witchcraft and a skerrick of luck.
         • Incognito 4.1.1.2.1

           26 May 2021 at 9:41 pm

           Ah, but these are not just nurses, they are highly trained vaccinators, skilled in the art Covid-19 vaccination.
         • McFlock 4.1.1.2.2

           26 May 2021 at 10:43 pm

           Seems to be a combination of factors:

           • vax producers don't want to be done for false sales, so the label on the bottle is the minimum that's in there (5 doses x 0.3mL = 1.5mL, so aiming for ~2mL will definitely get you 5 doses, usually 6, and maybe a 7th). But the label value for what's in there is the minimum, they can guarantee is in there, think the net weight value on a toothpaste tube.
           • they also worked on 5 doses per vial from the usual needle tech, whereas some new needles have lower headspace/wasted vaccine. Different techniques can also remove the headspace problem with a bit of skill. A bit like how when I have failed to buy more toothpaste, I can get pretty inventive as to how to get more paste from the "empty" tube. Necesity being a mother, and all that.
           • Neville Winsley 4.1.1.2.2.1

             27 May 2021 at 1:15 pm

             Your first point is correct. I am an ex-manufacturing pharmacist and in my experience most, if not all, drug vials are overfilled to some extent.
5. Treetop 5

   26 May 2021 at 2:22 pm

   Has a 6th or 7th vial dose been checked for efficacy compared to a vial 5th dose?
   • Incognito 5.1

     26 May 2021 at 3:49 pm

     Unnecessary, as they all come from the same solution in the vial. As long as the vial is not left sitting around on the table but used up promptly, all shots should be equally effective. In any case, you get two shots 😉
   • Sabine 5.2

     26 May 2021 at 5:17 pm

     The whole world has been pulling all the doses they could and administered them without a problem so far. It has been known since last year that one can with the right needle extract at least an extra dose.
6. McFlock 6

   26 May 2021 at 2:31 pm

   Chris Bishop wants to be able to complain that Pfizer are short-serving the government because you can only get six doses from a vial if you use a special needle…
7. nic181 7

   26 May 2021 at 5:17 pm

   Chris Bishop is full of it. He rates his own importance above any commonsense!
8. Pete 8

   26 May 2021 at 6:09 pm

   Bishflap had to comment of course:

   https://twitter.com/bishflap?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
9. Muttonbird 9

   26 May 2021 at 6:14 pm

   Remember that time Chris Bishop broke two MIQ returnees out of isolation so they could drive all over the country and potentially infect others?
   • Bearded Git 9.1

     26 May 2021 at 7:57 pm

     Ah yes, forgot that Mutton…well reminded.
10. Tricledrown 10

    26 May 2021 at 6:37 pm

    National continuously crying wolf looses what little traction they had.most people roll their eyes and think what a bunch of complete dicks.

    [deleted spurious “k” from user name again]
    • Incognito 10.1

      26 May 2021 at 6:39 pm

      Mod note for you.
11. Bearded Git 11

    26 May 2021 at 7:51 pm

    “Some on the right suggest that our position is all to do with luck. We are an island nation removed from the rest of the world. Last time I checked Australia, Japan, Fiji and Taiwan were also island nations.”

    Britain is an island….127,000 deaths so far.
12. AB 12

    27 May 2021 at 12:33 pm

    Everything Bishop does is in bad faith. The goal is to discredit the government for something/anything (exactly what doesn't matter) so the Nats can get back onto the Treasury benches and let the looting of the public domain for private profit resume.
13. Enough is Enough 13

    27 May 2021 at 1:41 pm

    I was just listeing to the acting Premier in Victoria announcing the new 7 day lockdown. He mentioned his frustration over the speed (or lack thereof) of the vaccine rollout over there, for the very obvious reason that lockdowns will continue until the rollout is complete.

    We are in the same place where everyday its a fingers crossed day that this thing doesn't leak out again.

    For those who don't care that our vaccine rollout is slow, just look over at Victoria. With it being likely we are probably 12 months away from reaching the 70% vaccinated rate, it almost inevitable we will have the same misfortune at some point.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 13.1

      27 May 2021 at 2:35 pm

      The outbreak in Melbourne is a worry, but the Victorian government knows what to do.

      Covid-19 vaccine rollout in NZ is exceeding DHB targets, and that's running vaccine stocks low. Our Gummit could over-promise, but how/who would that help?

      Government above Covid-19 vaccine roll-out target, but delays loom for group 4
      Most district health boards continue to exceed their targets for the Covid-19 vaccine roll-out, with Canterbury 29 per cent over its goal and Nelson-Marlborough and Bay of Plenty beating it by 60 per cent.

      New Zealand has now administered more than half a million Covid-19 vaccine doses, and remains at eight per cent above its target.

      Despite this, the vaccine roll-out for group four, the general population, has been moved to the end of July, the Ministry of Health said, a delay of a number of weeks from the initial intention.

      https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-getting-vaccine/covid-19-vaccine-rollout
      • Enough is Enough 13.1.1

        27 May 2021 at 2:48 pm

        The speed is a non-issue at the moment.

        Hopefully we don't need to go into another lockdown, but if we do, the speed of that rollout will certainly become an issue.

        Self determined low targets rates won't really matter if that scenrio arises.
        • Drowsy M. Kram 13.1.1.1

          27 May 2021 at 3:08 pm

          Speed of rollout depends on vaccine supply. Since no political party or agency in NZ can 'magic up' more doses of pandemic vaccines we're stuck with what we can get, similar to all countries (small and big) that can't mass-manufacture these vaccines.

          I'd be interested to know what resources our Government is allocating to acquiring vaccine doses more rapidly, always remembering that the need in some countries is (much) greater and more urgent than our own.

          https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-strategy-planning-insights/covid-19-purchasing-vaccines
          • Enough is Enough 13.1.1.1.1

            27 May 2021 at 3:50 pm

            always remembering that the need in some countries is (much) greater and more urgent than our own

            Do you think that is a consideration for the Ministry of Health when procuring the vacinne?

            Its a convenient political line that I have heard Minsters use quite often, but do you think our government is seriously saying internally,

            "hey, we will not will not rush the rollout, we will keep the borders closed for another 12 months, and run the risk of further hard lockdowns, because there are countries worse off than us "
            • Drowsy M. Kram 13.1.1.1.1.1

              27 May 2021 at 5:27 pm

              Do you think that is a consideration for the Ministry of Health when procuring the vacinne?

              At a guess, it seems unlikely. I am, however, certain that "the need in some countries is (much) greater and more urgent than our own." Tbh, I'd be surprised if any opposition ACT or National party MPs used that "political line" – it’s an inconvenient truth (for them) that NZ once again tops Bloomberg’s Covid Resilience Ranking.

              https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/

              Btw, what's the source of your "hey, we will not rush the rollout…" quote? I agree with not rushing the rollout ('haste makes waste'), and with the use of prudent travel restrictions to minimise the chance of a domestic lockdown.

              Rates of COVID-19 vaccination are determined by vaccine availability – if Seymour or Bishop have a plan to increase vaccine availabilty for NZers then please stop yapping and tell us, but I'm not holding my breath.

              https://covid19.govt.nz/covid-19-vaccines

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