Christchurch offer roundup

Written By: - Date published: 7:15 am, June 24th, 2011 - 70 comments
Categories: disaster, housing - Tags: ,

As of last night the most useful practical summary was in The Herald here. The piece leads with the headline that, while many now have a concrete deal in front of them, twice as many do not:

5100 lose homes, 10,500 in limbo

More than 5000 Christchurch homeowners now know their quake-hit homes will not be repaired and will be paid out, but another 10,500 have been left in limbo after the Government outlined today where rebuilding could happen.

At 3 News Duncan Garner notes:

It’s not a bad deal for Christchurch residents, but “more people haven’t been looked after today than have been looked after”. … But while those classed in the ‘red zone’ now have closure, the Government should be wary of the possible backlash from the 10,500 home owners who haven’t been granted that relief. … “Those people may not be happy at the election and try to vote National out.”

Even for those in the red zone, it is going to be up to eight weeks before the formal process gets under way. That’s going to be a long eight weeks in winter.

In other coverage, Stuff highlights an example of the kind of incongruous situation that is going to be commonplace:

Raeann McPherson lives with husband Andrew, son Tyler, 12, and daughter Brook,7, in one of 17 homes in Wattle Drive which have been labelled orange. But across the road, neighbour and friend Janet Beard is in the red zone, while the north end of the street, backing on to QEII Park, is classified green.

McPherson does not understand why she and her neighbours, just metres from the Avon River, are the only ones still in limbo. “I want answers. It’s good that they’ve made an announcement to the definite red zone but how much longer are they going to make us wait?”

I would suggest that the system that is set in place needs to be flexible around the edges of the red zone. Where it is obvious that an orange property is just as stuffed as its red neighbour, offer them the deal. The piece above carried on to note some of the big unanswered questions:

Opposition MPs have said the packaged left issues unresolved. Green MP Kennedy Graham said the Government was yet to clarify if residents would be forced to leave, or would face forced acquisition of their land under the earthquake recovery law, if they did not accept the offer after nine months.

It was also unclear how many in the red zones did not have insurance. Mr Brownlee yesterday said that was an issue that would be addressed later and the first priority was to help those who were insured and had helped themselves.

The government needs to do better on the issue of the uninsured. The cost of the buy out offer is currently estimated to be between $485 million and $635 million. Compare that with $1.6 Billion for the SCF bailout. I don’t see that an uninsured resident of Avonside is any less deserving of government help than an investor in a dodgy finance company.

Summing up, the initial response inside the red zone seems to have been generally positive. Generally, but not universally:

But some are worried the payout will not be enough. Burwood resident Clinton Pasfield said he was not sure it would be able to cover the cost of building a new home “The prices seem to be significantly more than what I expect to be able to get out of this package,” he said.

Ineke Van Ravenstein from Avondale echoed his concerns. “I don’t think we’re going to be winners but there’s nothing much we can do about it is there? “Whatever way we look at this it’s going to cost us.”

In comments on various forums about the place I see some fairly strong anti-Christchurch sentiment emerging. “Stop complaining and take the deal”. “It’s your fault you’re not insured”. That sort of thing. As always the nasty underside of New Zealand society is never very far from the surface. As if the residents of the shattered suburbs didn’t have enough to cope with already…

70 comments on “Christchurch offer roundup ”

  1. AR; there’s nothing nasty about those who have taken the sensible precaution of insuring their homes being unhappy if uninsured people get bailed out. What is the point of paying insurance premiums if the government is going to come along and clean up afterwards? To not insure your most significant non-human asset is negligent; probably grossly so.

    • Blighty 1.1

      please explain what the government buy-out has to do with insurance.

      It is not an insurance payout.

      • Lanthanide 1.1.1

        EQC land insurance is only given to those who have housing insurance. Although this government deal is separate from EQC, it is based strongly on that principal.

        • Blighty 1.1.1.1

          this isn’t an EQC buy out. It’s entirely separate.

          I agree though that, in the long term. EQC levies should be compulsory and should be designed to cover this ind of buyout too.

          But that doesn’t solve the current problem of the few percent (ie several hundred households) that are uninsured in the red zone. The government can’t just buy all their neighbours, cut off their utilities and say ‘fuck you, you shouldn’t be low income and own a house’

      • Deadly_NZ 1.1.2

        The govt pays you out, you sign over your insurance policy to he govt

  2. Peter Nickle 2

    Pretty black & white, uninsured = uninsured, so no payout, shit happens and it did in Chch. Uninsured people knew they were taking a risk. Just plain old dumb.

    SCF was part of the govt scheme (rightly or wrongly is another matter).

    As a tax payer I would be ok if $10k was given per household, but not a cent more and only as a goodwill gesture, nothing more.

    Also, you never know, some people might have invested their $1000PA insurance in a scheme that has returned $400K over the past 10 years, they will be ok then.

    • Lanthanide 2.1

      Someone could have taken out a new policy on September 3rd, not actually paid a cent, and be covered.

      Someone else could have had their policy lapse on September 3rd, after paying years of premiums, and not be covered.

      • Puddleglum 2.1.1

        Someone on NatRad tonight said that he missed out because, after September 4 he sold his house (which now is in the red zone) and bought another one in the same area (and still in what is now the red zone). Since the deal specifies that the owner has to have been the owner since Sept 3, 2010 he misses out.

        Of course, if he made a noise I’m sure Key would ride in on his charger, flanked by photographers, and personally put it right. But, if the owner and others like him don’t make a noise … 

        Expect, therefore, a lot of ‘noise’ as people try to swallow the offers but end up having to have the fish hooks extracted from their gullets one by one, slowly and painfully.

    • Colonial Viper 2.2

      Pretty black & white, uninsured = uninsured, so no payout, shit happens and it did in Chch. Uninsured people knew they were taking a risk. Just plain old dumb.

      Yes shit happens, so lets shit on our own people, is that the principle you run by Peter Nickle?

      Government is happy to bail out corporate owners of an uninsured stadium sports field but is happy to leave its citizens twisting in the wind?

      Is that the kind of country you are promoting internationally Peter Nickle?

      • Chris 2.2.1

        What stadium are you talking about?

        Because AMI Stadium is owned by the Christchurch City Council? I’m not too angry at the government bailing them out.

        • Colonial Viper 2.2.1.1

          Its just Government hypocrisy to treat an uninsured sports field differently to peoples lives and their homes.

          • Crusader 2.2.1.1.1

            It’s a public utility used for sports and music events.

            What’s the problem here CV?

            Just another anti rugby man. Only want to spend public money on property you approve of?

          • Chris 2.2.1.1.2

            I understand that this I’d about the 5th time you’ve brought it up but still I thought you would admit that maybe the owners of ami stadium aren’t actually corporate.

            But you’re right the government should’ve left the council to pay for entire repair if the grounds that wouldve made things better

          • Chris 2.2.1.1.3

            I didn’t realize that uninsured private land should be treated the same as uninsured crown land

            Alternatively you could admit the 5 tomes you brought up ami stadium as owned by a corporate was actually wrong

            • Chris 2.2.1.1.3.1

              Sorry didn’t realise my phone actually posted either of those comments since it told me it didn’t so excuse the spelling I’m a little drunk, but still Viper you’re completely wrong and trying to cover it up is ridiculous

  3. One interesting point is that the land in the red zone that is being ‘abandoned’, actually is not necessarily going to be abandoned. On RNZ this morning the point was raised with Brownlee (asking about a timeline for the remediation). He simply said that while some have estimated that it would be 3 years, others 5 years he thinks it could be a decade.

    When he was pursued on the same point, it was noted that some current residents wanted a first in line ‘buy back’ option. He said it would be ‘cleaner’ just to pay out completely. He then described the process of ripping up streets, infrastructure, adding soil, compacting it and putting the streets and infrastructure back in. He was pointing out that that would take a long time.

    If this is true, then at some point within a 3-10 year timeframe, a lot of taxpayer remediated prime, riverside real estate will be held by the government and, presumably, up for sale to some developer. If you have the patience, watch this space.

    • Blighty 3.1

      nobody who had house insurance bought with it coverage for a government buy out. therefore, why should the buyout be limited to only these people?

      • Peter Nickle 3.1.1

        Exceptional circumstances. However, this offer from the govt. is so that the owner can move on relatively easily and start again, while the govt deals with the insurance co. Individuals that are insured can opt out & deal direct with the insurance co. themselves if they wish.
        I liken this to a Class Action (with the govt taking the action in this case) in law terms.

        Once again, what part of uninsured did the people with no insurance not understand?

        • Blighty 3.1.1.1

          I don’t get why you say this is exceptional circumstances and then say that a buyout should only apply to people who were insured for normal circumstances.

          The buyout is not an insurance payment. There is no link. The government is paying QV regardless of the insured damage to people with insurance, why would it be any different for those without?

          And you have no idea what circumstances may have caused people to be uninsured when the quake struck. It’s hardly likely to have been a lifestyle choice. This is kicking those who are already down, probably the elderly or the recently unemployed who were holding a large capital asset but had very low incomes and had not been able to sell up yet.

        • Puddleglum 3.1.1.2

          I agree with Blighty. In the red zone, this is not about insurance or even EQC. It goes beyond all of those contingencies, as Bill English said the other day (you know, something about how the ‘black letter’ of insurance arrangements don’t apply because no-one was thinking of this situation).

          The decisions of sovereign governments that gather to themselves a monopoly on force (which is what this take it or leave it option is – let’s not beat around the bush) override all contracts, assumptions and, in this case because of the CERA legislation, most other laws. In fact, you could argue that the unusual step of fully compensating uninsured people would be just the kind of decision that the CERA legislation anticipated.

          In the green zone, I presume those uninsured remain in the schtuck – hence the much feared ‘moral hazard’ (a hugely simplistic notion) won’t occur (unless New Zealand homeowners in the future want to gamble that, post some other natural disaster, they will end up in that disaster’s ‘red zone’).

      • Puddleglum 3.1.2

        Yep – though I’m not sure how it links to my comment above, which was on a completely separate point (not that that bothers me, I just can’t see the connection).

  4. Uninsured people are NOT being bailed out.

    The vicious anti-Christchurch sentiment that appears in the comments sections of some articles on Stuff and The Herald is, fortunately, the exception rather than the rule, but it is nonetheless disturbing.

  5. millsy 5

    I think the uninsured should at least be given some advise on what they can do to try and get themselves out of the shit.

    Anyway, I think the nastiness towards to uninsured is pretty uncalled for. There are plenty of reasons why people dont have insurance, ie, the resession, bad credit ratings, etc.

    • Blighty 5.1

      considering the government buy out is not an insurance payment, why should it be linked in any way to your insurance?

      It’s like saying the government will buy everyone new tyres for their car but only if it’s blue.

      And you’re right. Nearly everyone has home insurance. If you didn’t it’s probably because you had suffered a catastrophic loss of income recently. Say you had been laid off and are now on the dole and hadn’t, yet, been forced sell your house or hadn’t been able to sell it yet.

      Should we really be punishing again people who are obviously already in dire financial straits? Especially as the buyout is nothing to do with insurance.

      • millsy 5.1.1

        I think the government plans to buy the houses and then take the money of the insurance companies later.

        Essentially its a loan to the insurance companies,.

        • Blighty 5.1.1.1

          your buyout is not linked to what the government gets from the insurance companies.

          If your house is only moderately damaged but is red zone, you will get the full QV value, even though the insurance payout the government gets will be much less. Plus, the land is only insured by EQC and only up to $100,000 for land and house combined, so the government is paying out for that too.

          This is a significant outlay by the government and is not tied to how much they expect to get back from the insurance companies.

          • Peter Nickle 5.1.1.1.1

            The way I see it, the buy out is linked to insurance. You are cherry picking with the above example. The govt have taken on the role of getting the money back for this which is a very noble idea from the insurance cos, (EQC for land & others for the rest) so people can move on. The uninsured have no redress because of this.

            Do you think people who drive in uninsured cars should get a payout if the car is nicked? Same scenario in effect.

            • Blighty 5.1.1.1.1.1

              “Do you think people who drive in uninsured cars should get a payout if the car is nicked? Same scenario in effect.”

              That’s not the same at all. That’s an insurance issue. The government is not paying an insurance payment to red zones houses, it is buying them.

              More analogous is that the government says because of some disaster they’re closing the petrol stations but will buy everyone’s cars so they won’t be left with a useless asset, but only as long as they’re insured.

              If you’re not insured and you’re in the red zone, the government is not going to restore your utilities, and it’s going to bowl all your neighbours.

              Key promised to leave no-one worse off. I didn’t hear him say ‘only if you had insurance on the day of the quake’

              • Sam

                “More analogous is that the government says because of some disaster they’re closing the petrol stations but will buy everyone’s cars so they won’t be left with a useless asset, but only as long as they’re insured”

                No. In your analogy, the insurance companys would not be subject to a payout. A correct analogy would be if due to said disaster, everyones cars were damaged, most irreparably, but some that are borderline. If the government then offered to buy everyones cars and then fight it out with the insurance companys, would you then expect them to also buy the uninsureds cars straight away?

                I would expect that the government in this scenario would not, and that they would then look at the uninsured at a later date. This, in effect is what the government are doing now.

                Where’s the problem? Part of car ownership is to be insured. This is doubly true for property ownership. Its quite simply about protecting your own ass. I understand that there will be people who because of extenuating circumstances have been caught out with this, but i do think it entirely fair that these people should be at the back of the queue for handouts.

                • McFlock

                  Not back of the queue – they’ve been kicked out of the queue.

                  Call it what it is. People who aren’t hand-to-mouth with bills so can afford insurance get to be in the handout queue, property developers who own land west of chch will have massive demand for their developments (not to mention CERA assistance with resource consent, no doubt), but if they couldn’t pay their insurance bill on time, they’re stuck with a broken house on property nobody wants.

                  But I’m sure it applies to only those people Gerry doesn’t think should live in Chch.

  6. Peter Nickle 6

    Somehow I doubt anyone will buy this land and who would insure it? Also, I would assume it will have some rather strong wording in the LIM files.
    Would you buy it or want to move back to it after you have moved on?
    This is like a messy divorce, you eventually move on but you never go back.

    • Lanthanide 6.1

      The point of the ground compaction is to make it less prone to earthquake damage than it was before it had the compaction.

      The new Pegasus township for people in the top 10% of incomes out by Woodend purposefully compacted all the land before construction started. Apparently there was very little liquefaction after the September 4th quake, whereas Kaiapoi which is only 5 minutes south got munted.

      • Peter Nickle 6.1.1

        Fair enough, but this was b4 the EQ. This has changed things somewhat. The top 10% can afford this, so I do not see this as an issue. I assume this is not becoming a class issue?

        If this did happen and the land was then sold off I do not have a problem with it as long as I don’t pay for the extra remediation required. If current owners want to stay and pay for the extra solid foundations they can do, however, I think this will be a huge cost that they may not be able to afford.

        • Lanthanide 6.1.1.1

          “If this did happen and the land was then sold off I do not have a problem with it as long as I don’t pay for the extra remediation required.”

          Eh? The government is going to own the land. Therefore any improvements done to the land will be paid for by the government. The government will eventually sell the land. If the government puts in land remediation, they will get a much better sale price when they come to sell it, which means the buyers are effectively paying for the remediation that is done.

          Now, it may be the case where the government pays $500m for remediation but only realises $300m extra when they come to sell the land. But the alternative is that the government sits on the land forever and does nothing with it.

          • Puddleglum 6.1.1.1.1

            You’re right Lanthanide, but the devil is in the detail. Given the track record of property development ‘deals’ in Christchurch (e.g., the buy up of land that became Aranui, the Blair Block, Bexley subdivision, Henderson, etc.) I’m wary of what future ‘deals’ might be made over this land (in fact, I imagine discussions are already underway between ‘interested parties’).

            I’m a cynic when past history suggests it’s wise to be.

            • grumpy 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Hint – Ngai Tahu…..

              • Quite possibly.

                But, given that there will be plenty of milk and honey flowing (at least for the moneyed ‘big boys’), there are other possibilities too. 

                The Carters – and/or others like them – might wish to ‘hedge’ against potential losses in the inner city. After all, they’re certainly a family that appreciates the efficiencies that accrue at the interface of property development, local body politics and national government.

                I can’t see them – and those in a similar position – just ‘sitting on their hands’ while billions of dollars flows into the city and potentially passes them by.

  7. Lanthanide 7

    I think this post is missing another crucial outcome of this process.

    If your house has now been declared green, the insurance companies can’t stuff around saying “we have to wait for geotech reports”.

    • lprent 7.1

      Yes they can. They still have to get them for the foundations of the house rather than for the area.

      • Lanthanide 7.1.1

        Yes, but in that case the insurance company actually has to do something. They have to organise more testing, they can’t just sit back and say “it’s out of our hands!” like they have been.

  8. tsmithfield 8

    I agree with Blighty to an extent.

    As I see it, the government buyout is effectively for the land. At the moment, EQC covers only up to 57k (including GST) for the land and $115k (inc GST) for the buildings. Most of those in the red zone would have significant damage to the extent that the value of the repairs plus the capital value of the land would equal or exceed the GV for their property. For instance, my parents in Horseshoe lake have a CV of $196000 on their land and $94000 for the improvements. The damage to the house far exceeds the $94000. So, as I see it, in most cases, the Government will effectively be topping up the difference between the 57k entitlement from EQC for the land and the actual land value.

    So far as my parents go, they have full replacement insurance and have a section secured in a good subdivision. They are going to end up approx $130k better off out of the deal by taking the land only option.

    I think it is fair that the government compensates for the land value because various councils etc in the past have approved people to build on the land, even though it has been a major earthquake risk. People have bought the land in good faith. Thus, I think it is fair that both the insured and uninsured should be fully compensated for the land. I hope the government comes up with this sort of outcome for the uninsured on a natural justice basis. However, I don’t think the uninsured should be compensated for their houses because that is the risk they took with their eyes open.

    Brownlee has suggested that charitable organisations such as Habitat for Humanity may help with houses for the very few uninsured people. So, hopefully the will get a home in the end.

  9. Zorr 9

    urg… RWNJs out in force today…

    A few quick points:
    What happens to the uninsured family living in their disaster-ridden home in the classified red zone? Will they be forcefully evicted if they don’t leave?

    What happens to communities where, as outlined, part are in red, some in orange and others green? Is their going to be any recompense for these people for the massively decreased land values, gutted local economy and costs of rebuilding?

    Under normal insurance, wouldn’t the value of the insurance be paid and the house remain in possession of the original owner? This stinks more like a bailout of insurance companies (who are under-reinsured) than that of offering a concrete solution. Some of these houses will be constructed from native timber which is worth a small fortune and the land, once the quakes stop, will have value again in a few years time.

    How will we provide law and order for those living close to these, soon to be, ghost towns/streets? Once the people are gone it is going to be difficult to prevent the salvaging of anything left behind by the advantageous as it seems to take a while for demolition to get under way. Will there be additional funding provided to support the remaining communities feel secure or will they be left to blow in the wind?

  10. erentz 10

    “I don’t see that an uninsured resident of Avonside is any less deserving of government help than an investor in a dodgy finance company”

    Okay, I somewhat agree — but this creates a dilemma that surely does need to be addressed and not ignored doesn’t it? Clearly governments have to step in after such major disasters as this. But if they do then it’s unfair on those who’ve been paying for insurance against such events. Clearly we need a compulsory insurance system for such major events (earthquakes, floods, cyclones, volcanoes), e.g. everyone is insured through EQC and that comes out of your rates. Then if you want extra insurance for fire/theft/etc. that’s something you go private for.

    • Peter Nickle 10.1

      You mean ACC for insurance, yahoo, another tax.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        More taxes please. Because people like Peter Nickle would prefer that NZ go into debt and have to borrow money from the Chinese instead of raising money from ther wealthy.

    • Colonial Viper 10.2

      But if they do then it’s unfair on those who’ve been paying for insurance against such events.

      Only if that’s the way you think i.e. “if the uninsured also get something, even though I am not any worse off I won’t be further ahead of them which is where I should be.”

      • Peter Nickle 10.2.1

        The people who were insured would be worse off as they had to outlay their premiums while the uninsured get off scot free. Over say 10 years this is about $10. Do you think this is fair?
        Personal responsibility is what it comes down to.
        The cold hard facts are that the uninsured will have to live with the decisions they made.

        • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1

          The cold hard facts are that the uninsured will have to live with the decisions they made.

          As if not being able to keep up with your premiums because youa re eyeballs in debt or laid off after the first earthquake is some kind of “decision” or “choice” lol

          The people who were insured would be worse off as they had to outlay their premiums while the uninsured get off scot free. Over say 10 years this is about $10. Do you think this is fair?

          No one is getting off scot free from this!!!! No one set out to game the system in anticipation of a massive earthquake! And should we let those uninsured families rot, put them into homeless shelters, let the tens of thousands of equity they have created through hard work and savings go to waste, because we refuse to shoulder the burden for an extra one in one hundred citizens. A rounding error of the total earthquake bill.

          When an uninsured sports field that no one lives in gets a $4M bail out from the Goverment.

          Is that fair mate?

          Personal responsibility is what it comes down to.

          Yes it does. I’m not saying that the uninsured should receive the 100% deal that everyone fully insured does either.

          Societal responsibility is what it comes down to.

  11. …another 10,500 have been left in limbo after the Government outlined today where rebuilding could happen

    Actually it’s a lot more than that. Here in the Green Zone we, like 200,000+ others, are also in limbo – unable to repair, move or rebuild until EQC assesses our houses. As assessors concentrate on the worst affected classifying the Orange and White sections the position of everyone else in Christchurch with a damaged home is being underplayed.

    What about those like me who have never seen an EQC assessor?  We had hoped to see them by September, a year after the original quake, but this is not now likely. After that will come the months of trying to get EQC to actually pay out the money!

    I am very pleased that something is finally being done for (some of the) worst affected – although with the 2007 land figures it is clear people will be forced to move out of Canterbury to rebuild due to section costs – and don’t want to take away from the terrible deprivations suffered, but am annoyed that the impression is being given that we in the Green Zone are now able to rebuild.

    Yes we know we can stay where we are but without an assessment by EQC we are stuck in limbo, unable to do anything to fix up our homes through the winter, unable to move, powerless and waiting at the mercy of Brownlee.

  12. Mark M 12

    The uninsured have no insurance on their house, so they should not get the proposed Government deal ,as they took the risk on themselves for whatever reason.

    but they are given no real choice to stay on their land and rebuild at their cost, as the government has decided that services wont be provided.
    In this circumstance it would be fair and reasonable for them to be compensated for the land value.

    They can then gp somewhere else and pay for their own building, which would be the case, if they could stay on their land.

    They are no better or worse off than before, which is the basis of the government proposal

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      The uninsured have no insurance on their house, so they should not get the proposed Government deal ,as they took the risk on themselves for whatever reason.

      Yeah I agree, they should have owned an uninsured stadium sports field instead, then the Government would have given them a $4M bail out even though they made the choice to be uninsured.

      They are no better or worse off than before, which is the basis of the government proposal

      Well this is a lie for those who had out hard worked for equity in a house which is now destroyed.

      • MarkM 12.1.1

        “Well this is a lie for those who had out hard worked for equity in a house which is now destroyed.”

        If their house is destroyed and they have no insurance then all they have is the land.
        If the Government buys their land they are no worse off.

        Think about first CV before you respond

        • ropata 12.1.1.1

          Yeah screw those suckers. How dare they not buy insurance, thanks MarkM for straightening that one out. They are LUCKY that their house fell down and they can live in an igloo

  13. vto 13

    Some great new residencies will be able to be built on the abandoned land. Bring back the wetlands and the whitebait.

    • Inventory2 13.1

      Whitebait; now you’re talking!

    • weka 13.2

      They’re dumb fucks if they ever building human habitats on that land again. Creating natural habitats sounds a fantastic idea.
       
      I haven’t seen this point made in a while. Wasn’t there a geologist after the Sept quake who said we told you not to build those suburbs there (because in the unlikely even of a quake there will be significant problems)? Is there no accountability from the developers and council who approved development?

      • davidc 13.2.1

        Developers ask Councils if they may…Councils approve or not as they see fit….and chage huge fees…

        Accountability for Councils?? are you high?

        • Colonial Viper 13.2.1.1

          Accountability for Councils with Rodney High-ed in charge? You are correct its not likely.

  14. grumpy 14

    I’m sure you guys will get a laugh out of this………

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc2GjOYgpeI&feature=share

  15. weka 15

    But some are worried the payout will not be enough. Burwood resident Clinton Pasfield said he was not sure it would be able to cover the cost of building a new home “The prices seem to be significantly more than what I expect to be able to get out of this package,” he said.

    There needs to be a general shift in attitude about this. I’m not sure that it’s valid for people to assume they will get back exactly what they had in terms of house and land size. NZ increasingly builds houses that are much bigger than what is needed, and there are significant enironmental and social costs to the country. It also costs the homeowner. If you don’t have enough money to replace your house then build a smaller one. There’s some innovative work already being done on smaller housing and quality of life, and a good opportunity for Chch to lead the way on this.

    I think it’s important that red zone people get enough support to set themselves up again in comfortable homes.  But I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect that everyone will get their equity or their ideal house back. Shit happens, and our willingness as a nation to help each other out should be about making sure people are ok, not that everything is made exactly how it was. Shit happens and we do the best we can. I’m sure that Chch people know this  more than most currently, and I’m not in any way supportive of the ‘stop whining’ brigade. I do think that Chch people should be given good advice/support about how to think in terms of creative solutions, and unfortunately that’s not what most of the building industry will be doing.

    • davidc 15.1

      also…if you had a 150 m2 house (stucco, uninsulated, log fire, well used carpets and drapes) that was 40 years old you cant expect to get enough $$ to rebuild a same sized, well insulated, double glazed, heat pump airconditioned, new kitchen, tiled 2 bathroom house.
      Your 40 year old house is propbably half way thru its lifespan…
      so assuming $300K QV , land at $150K , improvements at $150K it may cost you an additional $150K on top of your payout to rebuild the same size new on a decent section.
      $1800 / m2 to build a reasonable house on a flat site excluding drapes. Drapes can be $$15K easy.

  16. davidc 16

    If you choose to drive a car without insurance and by chance you (its clearly your fault) crash into a nice new Maserati and you also happen to own a nice house freehold you are very likley going to have to sell your nice home to buy a nice new italian rollerskate to replace the one you trashed.
    You have made a choice, gambled and lost.

    • weka 16.1

      I don’t follow how that’s relevant to Chch.

    • Colonial Viper 16.2

      You have made a choice, gambled and lost.

      Exactly. That person, their family, their partner, also their kids now need to be consigned to the scrap heap of davidc’s capitalist-run casino game of life. In fact, the children need to be put into indentured servitude to the insurance company and the Maserati owner to insure that all damages on the vehicle are properly repaid.

      Fuck off mate.

      • davidc 16.2.1

        what is the other choice?
        The maserati owner pays $300000 for you? because you choose not to have $200 third party insurance?
        it would be a sad country without enforcement of personal responsibility.

        and please keep it civil.

        I havent seen your followup on the other thread telling me how wrong you were with 5000 cashed up families and how that will change the property market.

        • ropata 16.2.1.1

          yes all those cantabs are personally responsible for buying a house in east chch when they KNEW it would be struck by half a dozen earthquakes and buried in mud. they should not be admitted to hospital either when their roof falls in because they didn’t bother to wear a helmet, the fools.

  17. ChCher@heart 17

    I think people all in ‘zones’ are caught up in a complex and dreadfully stressful situation, and it’s not unnatural that it’s easier to look back, mourning the city and the individual homes that have been lost, than forward, considering how ChCh is going to be changed long term and how people are going to build themselves new communities and fit themselves into new homes. There are valid points being made all through this line of discussion. For what it’s worth, here’s my perspective:
    1) Stop dumping on the uninsured. Very few people choose not to have insurance, and it’s a pre-requisite for a mortgage. A household that’s uninsured is almost always overwhelmed by hardship; and let’s remember that they will not have access to contents’ insurance through EQC and will probably not have private contents’ insurance either.
    2) The points about building sizes and replacing an aged house with a new one are reasonable, to an extent, but how about we cut the people of ChCh (and Canterbury more widely) a bit of slack? If there are people who end up as ‘winners’ after going through all this shit, to be honest, I can’t say I’m unhappy with that.
    3) I’m surprised that I haven’t seen any real discussion about the position of Housing New Zealand tenants. What is being done to help them to find new accommodation? And what about other tenants? Not everybody owns their home, and this will be a city with a lot of pressure for rental accommodation for a long time. Prices are likely to skyrocket.
    4) Don’t let’s get too smug, sitting outside of Christchurch and feeling secure in our own places. When I was growing up in ChCh, we felt secure, too.

    And of course, while it’s not what this discussion line has been about, let’s remember that we’re talking about a series of events that has already killed a number of our country-folk. They were killed suddenly, in shocking circumstances. It would be equally shocking, though, if more were to die because of a combination of substandard living conditions and long-term stress. Anything we can do to make this less like, we should be doing. And yes, I do include the uninsured in this.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • EV road user charges bill passes
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April.  “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Bill targets illegal, unregulated fishing in international waters
    New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Reserve Bank appointments
    Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates.  Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Stronger protections for apartment owners
    Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Travel focused on traditional partners and Middle East
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend.    “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says.   Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Keep safe on our roads this Easter
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Cost of living support for over 1.4 million Kiwis
    About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Tenancy reviews for social housing restart
    Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary plan halted
    The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Cutting all that dam red tape
    Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track.  “Dam safety regulations ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Drought support extended to parts of North Island
    The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Passage of major tax bill welcomed
    The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis.  “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Lifting economy through science, tertiary sectors
    Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces Budget priorities
    The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government to consider accommodation solution
    The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government approves extension to Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care
    Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says.                                         “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • $18m boost for Kiwis travelling to health treatment
    The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says.   “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • PM’s Prizes for Space to showcase sector’s talent
    The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Concerns conveyed to China over cyber activity
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government.     “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry
    Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function.  The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Brynderwyns open for Easter
    State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the Infrastructure Funding & Financing Conference
    Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Parliamentary network breached by the PRC
    New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ to provide support for Solomon Islands election
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ-EU FTA gains Royal Assent for 1 May entry to force
    The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union.    “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19 inquiry attracts 11,000 submissions
    Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says.  “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Families to receive up to $75 a week help with ECE fees
    Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Unlocking a sustainable, low-emissions future
    A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Chief of Army thanked for his service
    Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders
    25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government commits nearly $3 million for period products in schools
    Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech – Making it easier to build.
    Good morning, it’s great to be here.   First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning.  I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific youth to shine from boost to Polyfest
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • 2024 Ngarimu VC and 28th (Māori) Battalion Memorial Scholarships announced
    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to Breast Cancer Foundation – Insights Conference
    Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Kiwi research soars to International Space Station
    New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Planning Institute
    Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Support for Northland emergency response centre
    The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed.  “Northland has faced a number ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Celebrating 20 years of Whakaata Māori
    New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Some commercial fishery catch limits increased
    Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-03-29T01:54:44+00:00