Climate Change arguments in a GIF

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 pm, December 22nd, 2009 - 65 comments
Categories: climate change - Tags:

Information is Beautiful recently produced the image below summarizing the various arguments between about climate change. Click on the image to see the full version. hat-tip: Open Parachute

65 comments on “Climate Change arguments in a GIF”

  1. toad 1

    Pity I can’t read it with my screen resolution.

    Sure it is good (almost everything at The Standard is) but no readable evidence to evaluate.

    Ah, click on it once, it then appears on the LHS, and click on it again.

    Then you get a ful-screen mage hat you can read.

    And it makes sense. Just a bit of a mission to get there.

  2. BLiP 2

    Doesn’t matter how simple you make it for the denialists, they will still deny, deny deny.

    • toad 2.1

      Because the science doesn’t count, BLiP. The ideology is all that matters.

      So just ignore the evidence, coz they have Jesus and/or Hayek on their side.

      • BLiP 2.1.1

        Ironic that if Jesus was alive today it would be the denialists most likely to crucify him.

        • Andrei 2.1.1.1

          3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

          4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

          5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

          6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

          7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

          8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

          9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

          10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

          11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

          12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

          13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

          14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

          • quenchino 2.1.1.1.1

            Religion without reason becomes mere superstition.

            Science without faith becomes mere materialism.

            Science is how we discover the nature of this world, faith is how we are informed of the nature of the next… and while each is a different domain, there is but One Creator and One Reality… therefore in their innermost core, science and religion must be in harmony with each other.

            • Ron 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Religion without Reason is superstition? Religion IS without reason. By definition. Religion relies on faith. A “belief”. There’s no reason involved.

          • lprent 2.1.1.1.2

            Yep, you can find something in the bible or koran or any of the books of religion to fit any occasion.

            Those particular verses have been used extensively from Constantines time since for a variety of purposes.

            You should read about their use when the black death was crossing Europe… Not only did they have a ongoing natural disaster happening. They also had people of faith spending more time clustering together providing a perfect focus for disease transmission listening to those exact verses.

            They often then went down the road to help make verse 9 become true by way of pogrom. Jews were notorious for washing too often, so didn’t get the death quite as often. There is some really nasty history associated with those verses.

      • Gooner 2.1.2

        Science isn’t about evidence Toad.

        You fail.

  3. you warming idiots are the deniers. Still run around as if CRU emails did not get released. GW is the new religion, so you dorks are the luddites.

    [lprent: Yeah right. I guess you don’t know much science. ]

  4. Andrei 4

    Denialists?

    The only people in denial are those that still go along with this fraud.

    I’m afraid the so called ” scientific consensus” has been manufactured and the whole of science not only “climate science” is in for a big shake-up and re-think.

    Nobody will call themselves a “climate scientist” in the future because the very term will have become synonymous with “charlatan”.

    If it wasn’t for the fact that vested interests – an unholy alliance between left-wing politicians, quick buck con artists and bankers these fraudsters would have been nailed already.

    Its one of the most disgraceful episodes in the history of science my friends.

    • quenchino 4.1

      Which is more likely Andrei? The documented unholy alliance between wealthy coal and energy companies and proven fraudsters like Fred Singer (he who ran the same FUD campaign defending tobacco company interests for decades)… or a conspiracy between thousands of independently tenured scientists in hundreds of institutions all over the world?

      Yet even when your side unethically hacks into thosuands of private emails going back a decade or so, the best you can do is quote mine a small handful of misleading phrases… all of which have rational explanations totally different to the lying spin that has been put on them. The CRU hack is in fact a huge dissapointment to you… for all the insane hyperbole that has been spewed over the media and net… there really was nothing useful to you at all. Was there?

      All the drivel we read from you is just non-stop unsupported assertions. At every science point you have been proven wrong and wrong again. Yet it means nothing to you… because you are not interested in science, or even the truth. All you are here for is to spread uncertainty, doubt and lies.

      Why the hell should The Standard continue to provide a platform for such a lying, febrile moron as yourself?

      • grumpy 4.1.1

        quenchino, you are very vocal in always calling for those who outdebate you to be banned, the last gasp of someone who’s point of view can no longer be sustained.

        Don’t you realise that if The Standard took your advice it would become even more irrelevant, descending even further from the exchange of views it provides at present?

        [lprent: Exactly, it’d wind up like the sewer with mass bullying by an in-group and bugger all info from debate. As it is, people mainly have to worry about Irish and I and our wee mildly inconsistent banning quirks. Most people figure out how not to attract our immoderate moderation attentions eventually. ]

        • quenchino 4.1.1.1

          First of all you neither you nor Andrei are debating. Not even close, all you are doing is trolling with unsupported drivel.

          Secondly, it is you guys who come here to The Standard and make these stupid, wrong headed statements. If you want to say that sort of mindless dreck, there are plenty of little denier dens where you can go and giggle and chortle among yourselves. If you go back there I promise to leave you alone.

          If on the other hand you show the slightest sign of engaging some intelligence, bring some actual information to the debate, or ask some honest questions… you’ll get a civil response from me. If you post trash I’ll go for you.

      • Andrei 4.1.2

        I don’t have a “side” quenchino.

        I believe in scientific rigor.

        For example when I see a least squares regression fitted to stochastic time series (as in the notorious NIWA graphic) I ask myself – how was the start point chosen because I know that by careful choice of end points a line of almost any desired slope can be produced – convincing to the naive but a sure sign pseudo science to the informed.

        And when I read a scientific paper one of the most important elements is the error estimates because these give you the bounds of any estimated quantity e,g. the estimated average temperature rise over the past 100 years in New Zealand. And if the error calculations are missing or fuzzy, (what we call in the trade hand waving as opposed to rigorous analysis) again alarm bells ring.

        Now you may rail about the demands for scientific rigor but if you have an hypothesis in science that you wish to prove it is up to you to make the case not up to the skeptics (and science at its very heart is supposed to be skeptical) to disprove it.

        Sorry ’bout that

        • quenchino 4.1.2.1

          I don’t have a “side’ quenchino.

          Blatant lie. You are a denier.

          I believe in scientific rigor.

          Another blatant lie. I’ve never seen the slightest hint of ‘scientific rigour’ from you. You are a total stranger to science, and the only rigor about you is your fixed thinking.

          I ask myself how was the start point chosen because I know that by careful choice of end points a line of almost any desired slope can be produced

          Psuedo science flim-flam meant to sound impressive to non-statisticians. What you are saying is perfectly well understood by anyone analysing time series.

          Hilarious enough of course in a more basic form this is exactly the same howler made by all those nitwits who cherry pick 1998 as a starting point to try and claim that it’s been cooling since then.

          And when I read a scientific paper one of the most important elements is the error estimates because these give you the bounds of any estimated quantity

          Error estimates seem to present in many of the papers I’ve read… more misdirection.

          Now you may rail about the demands for scientific rigor

          What you mean by this is that you feel free to play games shuffling the goal-posts about. Seen that from you before.

          • Andrei 4.1.2.1.1

            Tell you what quenchino

            Why don’t you show me the error analysis for the famous NIWA chart and the regression line that is on it.

            It must exist it is good science after all – so lets see it

            • quenchino 4.1.2.1.1.1

              Of course you pose a question you already know the answer to. Instead I’ll point you at a more useful, generalised answer. Try this thread for an introduction to dealing with errors in noisy data and the problems involved with curve fitting.

              • Andrei

                That is NOT the error estimates for the NIWA graphic!

                That is a pitiful attempt to divert into a discussion of the perils of curve fitting.

                Try again

        • prism 4.1.2.2

          Hey Andrei you “believe in scientific rigor’ then what can we do if its really important to ameliorate the results of conditions revealed by science?

    • Pascal's bookie 4.2

      Yeah, it’s just like evolution.

      • grumpy 4.2.1

        Face it, AGW is dead – killed off by the exposure of the very people responsible for the scaremongering.

        It has joined swine flu, Y2K, SARS etc. etc. ….. and saved us from the ENRON carbon trading market.

        • quenchino 4.2.1.1

          Face it grumpy, you are a fool.

          • grumpy 4.2.1.1.1

            and you, quenchino have already lost both the argument and your relevance.

          • quenchino 4.2.1.1.2

            And you are a moron who hasn’t said anything worthwhile ever.

            “Lost the argument”… ha.. there never was one.

            (I can keep this up all night …see how far it gets you. )

            • grumpy 4.2.1.1.2.1

              WE shall see. If, as Al Gore says, the polar ice cap has vanished in 5 years, I will be more than happy to say that you were a visionary, ahead of your time. If, on the other hand……….

              • quenchino

                What do you mean by ‘vanished’?

                There will always be Arctic ice in the winter for the foreseeable future, so if we take you statement at literal face value.. no-one is going to take your bet on.

                In order to make a valid threshold you need to specify some lower limit, like multi-season ice reduced to 15% coverage at the end of the summer season.. by a certain date.

                Alternately you might want to rummage through this post from Tamino which gives a reasoned , statistically based method for determining how many years of noisy data is needed to before we can be confident about the underlying trend.

              • grumpy

                Really, quenchino, then someone had better tell Al,

      • toad 4.2.2

        Don’t you mean Creation Sciene?

  5. BC 5

    Grumpy, it is in fact you who have lost relevance. You troll around these forums espousing your descredited and unsubstaniated views whilst attacking sensible contributers. Your actions are childish and obviously the product of a weak mind.

    You also say that quenchino has lost the argument. It certainly doesn’t appear that way from my persepective. Andrei has been utterly refuted in every respect.

    I suggest you take a walk along to Kiwiblog where your ignorance will be welcomed and celebrated.

  6. Wow

    Really good summary and the Trolls have not addressed one matter raised in the summary. So which part is lies, which part is conspiracy, and why is the consensus of so many scientific brains wrong?

    Quoting “the email” will not do it.

    • grumpy 6.1

      What idiot organised the Copenhagen conference to coincide with the worst cold snap in years?

      How come the worlds greatest climatologists didn’t see this coming and organised it elsewhere – such as Alice Springs. The outcome may have been better for them.

      • mickysavage 6.1.1

        Grumpy

        Classic denialist tripe.

        It is really hot in city X therefore the globe as a whole is not warming.

        Are you being serious?

        When talking about localised effects why do you not talk about the North Pole which is disappearing, the South Pole that is turning itself into icebergs or Greenland that is melting?

      • quenchino 6.1.2

        Grumpy,

        Heavy snow is not synonymous with cold temperatures. In fact snow occurs when especially saturated moist air is lifted very rapidly over the top of a cooler air stream.

        The cooler stream needs not be especially cold, just sufficiently dense and well organised enough to lift the warmer moist air high enough so that the adiabatic cooling is rapid enough to supercool the water, so that it freezes rather than liquifies. Well I simplify a lot… but the essential point is that snowfall is not a sign of low temperatures as such… rather the sudden meeting of warm wet and cold denser airstreams.

    • Ag 6.2

      You don’t get it, MS.

      They don’t have to address any matter in the summary or anything else that climate scientists come up with. To assume so is to assume that they are playing the same game as the AGW side, which is the game of reasoned arguments backed up with evidence.

      The deniers are not playing that game. They do not care about the evidence, but only in preventing any form of enforced action to reduce carbon emissions. That means nothing you say matters to them. Nothing at all.

      The pro-AGW people are essentially stupid in thinking that this is a debate they can “win” in the normal way that debates are “won”.

      It is not a debate. It is a political struggle over whether carbon emissions are to be subject to international regulation. You cannot win on “the facts”. The issue will only be won when the deniers are cast out of the political process.

      Remember why the Americans lost in Vietnam? It was because they assumed that they were fighting the war the way that wars were supposed to be fought. But the North Vietnamese weren’t fighting that war. They were fighting to win.

      By attempting to win on the science alone, the pro AGW side are making exactly the same mistake as the Americans did in Vietnam. How stupid do you have to be not to understand that?

      If you want to beat the deniers, you have to show them that there will be consequences for their actions. If you don’t, they’ll just keep denying.

      Do you have the guts to do that?

  7. Gooner 7

    Really good summary and the Trolls have not addressed one matter raised in the summary. So which part is lies, which part is conspiracy, and why is the consensus of so many scientific brains wrong?

    Mickey, how can one argue an image that is headed “scientific consensus”?

    There is no consensus. There is no such thing as “settled science”. And Science is not about evidence, as claimed by Toad.

    There are three reasons why it is impossible to even start to debate.

    • quenchino 7.1

      There is no consensus.

      Keep telling yourself this nonsense if it comforts you, but the IPCC process is probably the most formally exhaustive and detailed consensus process in the whole of human history.

      • mickysavage 7.1.1

        Apart from the time scientists decided that the world was not flat and that the sun did not rotate around the earth. I bet there were trolls back then too!

        • BLiP 7.1.1.1

          Mostly religious, too.

        • QoT 7.1.1.2

          They probably found inscriptions on urns saying “I’ve just repeated Erastothenes’ trick of estimating the distance to Alexandria” and told anyone who might listen about how this PROVED the earth was flat and it was all just the deceptions of a cadre of round-earthers funded by the secretive summer solstice celebration conglomerates.

  8. How about a poll of climatologists. What percentage of them do not believe in human induced climate change?

    • Roger 8.1

      According to a 22nd Jan 2009 poll, 97% of climatologists believe in human induced climate change. Apparently that leaves 3% that the skeptics here obviously believes is a significant percentage. The same poll showed that petroleum geologists were the most skeptical at 47% believing in human induced climate change followed by 64% for meteorologists. The analysis by poll conducter Peter Doran, University of Illinois at Chicago associate professor of earth and environmental sciences includes this about meteorologists;

      “Most members of the public think meteorologists know climate, but most of them actually study very short-term phenomenon.”

      and this about the result among climatologists;
      “They’re the ones who study and publish on climate science. So I guess the take-home message is, the more you know about the field of climate science, the more you’re likely to believe in global warming and humankind’s contribution to it.”

      and the following conclusion;
      “the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes.”

      • SHG 8.1.1

        Since when has consensus been a part of the scientific method?

        • lprent 8.1.1.1

          consensus is always part of science.

          Elimination of the impossible laves the possible visible. You get broad agreement about what is conclusively disproved. A few people stay to chip around the edges of the impossible looking for flaws. Most move on to look at the possible.

          The difference with the climate change debate is that we’ve had a whole pile of quacks pile in with their equivalent of perpetual motion machines.

          There are a few climatologists, earth scientists, and geologists amongst the skeptics side – a very few of whom are doing science rather than just reviewing other peoples work.

          The vast majority of skeptical ‘scientists’ are people who are simply untrained to look at the relevant science and the vagaries of deep time. Physicists, chemists, meteorologists, etc generally contribute very little because they simply have too short-term focus or expect to get reasonably accurate results from a very chaotic system.

          Of course there are loony lords, scientific mercenaries like Singer, and various ‘institution’ fronts for the polluters.

          Trying to make sense of all of this are the CCDs and skeptics. Their biggest hassle is the conflict between what they want to believe (being able to burn without consequence), and the hard facts of climate being a delicate balance between different forces. Around the anglo world, they usually take the easier option of denying that they have to change their lifestyle (curiously it is a lot less noisy outside of the anglo states).

          So they listen to quacks rather than studying the science.

    • Roger 8.2

      According to a 22nd Jan 2009 poll, 97% of climatologists believe in human induced climate change. Apparently that leaves 3% that the skeptics here obviously believes is a significant percentage. The same poll showed that petroleum geologists were the most skeptical at 47% believing in human induced climate change followed by 64% for meteorologists. The analysis by poll conducter Peter Doran, University of Illinois at Chicago associate professor of earth and environmental sciences includes this about meteorologists;

      “Most members of the public think meteorologists know climate, but most of them actually study very short-term phenomenon.”

      and this about the result among climatologists;
      “They’re the ones who study and publish on climate science. So I guess the take-home message is, the more you know about the field of climate science, the more you’re likely to believe in global warming and humankind’s contribution to it.”

      and the following conclusion;
      “the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes.”

  9. Bill 9

    The corporatists and deniers and servants? Kill them. Kill them all and come back alone.

    With apologies to you know who.

    • gitmo 9.1

      On the -3rd day of XMAS the Standard gave to me the commenter known as Bill showing his true colours quite terriyingly.

      • Bill 9.1.1

        You never listened to Lee ‘Scratch’ Perry then? His lyrics.

        Don’t know why you’d find him terriying (sic)

        • gitmo 9.1.1.1

          Well at least we have a clearer idea of your position on how to get rid of capitalism……. you really would have been in your element back in 1917.

          • Bill 9.1.1.1.1

            As I have said previously, abandon it Gitmo. That’s how it’s gotten rid of.

            As I guess you are referring to events in Russia when you speak of 1917, I’ve always reckoned the Bolshevics would have shipped me off to Siberia if I hadn’t escaped abroad by 1921.

            Anyway.

  10. tsmithfield 10

    The arguments for the skeptics shown above are really strawman arguments. This is because most serious skeptics actually accept that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that human induced CO2 is affecting the environment.

    The main debate now is about how sensitive the climate is to these changes.

    I would be more interested in seeing the arguments for both sides for climate sensitivity addressed instead of some old debunked arguments that have been dredged up and summarily disposed of.

    • lprent 10.1

      That was why I put this post up. Best summary of most of the known arguments in a short format that I’ve seen.

      The sensitivity is a quite a different issue simply because the science hasn’t been developed to look into the future, and we’ve never seen or measured what happens during large climate shifts.

      We’re peering back into deep time at past events beyond the the relatively stable last 10,000 years to when there have been significant climate shifts – that has been the art of paleo-climatology for the last couple of hundred years. Meteorology has been the study of modern weather patterns. But climatology has only been spanning the two for the last 30 years. But it is a big jump between paleo events and then looking for the precursor events in the modern world (which are largely wiped in the record for past events).

      The best known guesses are in the IPCC reports. They are very conservative because they focus on what is known in the modern world rather than what is inferred from paleo-climates. In other worlds they focus on the climate that we have now rather than the rapid shifts that are visible in the past.

      The problem is that we are causing a sustained rapid shift in the atmosphere that is faster than anything we’ve observed in the past. Slower changes of that type are associated with vast changes in paleo-climates. These are the type of changes that cause mass-extinctions, especially of top animal species in their eco-systems – like us. However the paleo-climate shift patterns cause and effect is too undeveloped to put into a IPCC report. There is a lot of effort going on to look at likely possibilities, but that takes time to extract – typically decades for observation.

      The real question you should be asking is – how much risk do you find acceptable?

    • Andrei 10.2

      You want to discuss sensitivity – Here is a good paper on it

      Enjoy

      • lprent 10.2.1

        Interesting. If that is corroborated then it will cause a small shift in the models for direct radiative cooling for the tropical seas.

        Now they have to get some good data outside of the tropics. That is where most of the effects of climate change manifest. And see if the same thing happens on land surfaces in the tropics and elsewhere

        As per normal most of the paper was about instrumentation biases and cleaning up the data. Perhaps the fools that thought ‘climategate’ was important should read some actual science papers.

    • NickS 10.3

      @tsmithfield
      Except they’re not, you’ve only got to hang around the climate blog comment threads, or forums, to see many of the arguments mentioned in the gif used. Or just go to micro-Watts blog and see the same old moronic arguments spun time and time again.

      Bit like evolutionary biology actually, where the “sceptics” make the same tired old claims again, and again and again, aka “P.A.R.T.T’s”

  11. Daveosaurus 11

    Personally, I’ve always been skeptical of climate change, but the denialist camp are driving me away with their reliance on spin, sophistry, obfuscation, rhetoric, lies, conspiracy theories and even, in at least one case, blood libel, rather than finding any actual science to back up their case.

    • lprent 11.1

      I describe it as the ‘con’ pattern of smoke, mirrors and hidden objectives.

      I was also a skeptic – 30 years ago. That was when I was doing earth sciences and the theory was very raw and young with little backing evidence and tested explanations of causal effect. They managed to dig up enough evidence and support theories by the early 90’s to convince me there was an issue. By the late 90’s they dug up enough to scare me. This decades research is rapidly shifting me to terror.

  12. SJ Hawkins 13

    Well eventually one side or the other is going to be correct, and that should be the end of the matter.
    Personally I have no cause to worry, I live on a hill, I can afford higher costs for power, petrol and food etc, and frankly I like warmer weather.
    If anyone else is worried they should really do something about it. Al Gore clearly isn’t worried, look at his carbon footprint.
    Geez, there probably isn’t a problem, so stop worrying and enjoy your life!

  13. tc 14

    Yup, I can afford bigger power bills, live high up and have plenty of sunblock and water for the extended summers/droughts we’ll have.

    Being intelligent and independant I have all the excuses lined up for my grandkids when they ask…why have your generation left the planet like this knowing what you did.

    Job Done, sleep peacfully, not my problem. Blame the politicians……lunch on the company powerboat everyone.

  14. enny 15

    Information is Beautiful recently produced the image below summarizing the various arguments between about climate change. Click on the image to see the full version. hat-tip: Open ParachuteFinden Sie eine große Sammlung von animierten Gifs, Cliparts, grafiken, animationen in verschiedenen Kategorien zu Gifs.de

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    Yesterday Ihumātao's mana whenua reached a consensus that they would like their land back, and asked the government to negotiate with Fletcher's for its return. The government's response? Try and undermine that consensus, while talking about how doing anything would undermine existing Treaty settlements. The first is just more bad ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Protecting our history
    Its Suffrage Day, the 126th anniversary of women winning the right to vote (but not stand in elections) in New Zealand. And to celebrate, the government has bought Kate Sheppard's house in Christchurch:The government has bought Kate Sheppard's former home in Christchurch for more than $4 million. The Ilam villa ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Ostracising the coal-burners
    The UN climate summit is happening in new York next week, and unlike previous years, coal-burners and denier-states are not being invited to speak:Leading economies such as Japan and Australia will not be invited to speak at next week’s crunch UN climate change summit, as their continued support for coal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Jojo Tamihere Salutes Herr Goff.
    Get Back Jojo! The elation in Mayor Phil Goff’s camp may be easily imagined as they watched social media light up in indignation at challenger John Tamihere’s "Sieg Heil to that" quip. Just when JT’s notoriously right-wing, sexist and homophobic stains were beginning to fade back into his ‘colourful’ past, ...
    2 days ago
  • Hard News: A fun but flawed weed documentary
    Patrick Gower is good value when he's high. Not that I've ever, you know, got stoned with him. But in the second part of his documentary Patrick Gower on Weed, he does what you'd expect in a modern weed documentary and immerses himself – first with a doctor, then a ...
    3 days ago
  • Candidate Survey: Western Bay of Plenty – Local Body Elections 2019
    We surveyed candidates on their attitudes to issues facing the Western Bay Region, find out what they think: “Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Project Nettie calls on scientists to defend biology
    Please spread widely, and sign, to support science and rationalism over the new irrationalism sweeping universities and institutions.  PROJECT NETTIE Sexual reproduction, the generation of offspring by fusion of genetic material from two different individuals, evolved over 1 billion years ago. It is the reproductive strategy of all higher animals ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • I’m glad I don’t live in Auckland
    Just when I was thinking that Palmerston North's mayoral race (which includes a convicted child molester / public wanker and a convicted child beater) was the worst in the country, Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere opened his mouth:Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere is being slammed for using the words "sieg ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Index of Power Update, 2018-19: China #2
    We reprint below an article from the excellent website the Economics of Imperialism by Tony Norfield This is an update of the statistics for my Index of Power, using data for 2018-19 and discussing what a country’s ranking reflects. The major change is that China’s rank has shifted up and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: A history lesson
    Why is New Zealand climate change policy so crap? The Herald this morning has a long article on the twists and turns of climate change policy in New Zealand [paywalled / depaywall script], which shows where we've been. The short version is that the government first began worrying about this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • What the All Blacks Mean to Us
    The All Blacks have been, for more than a century, arguably the most successful International sports team in the world. But they are more than that; even for those Kiwis who are immune to the charms of rugby (and there are more than a few), the All Blacks are ambassadors ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    3 days ago
  • No one is born into the wrong body
    A short and incredibly powerful speech from a young lesbian woman. No one is born in the wrong body. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Contempt
    Back in June, the UK Court of Appeal ruled that that country's continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia were unlawful. So you'd expect that the UK government stopped approving them, right?Of course not:The government has apologised for breaching a court ruling against the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Covering up the cover-up
    Yesterday NZDF officials were put on the stand about the lies they had told over Operation Burnham, making implausible claims that it was all a big mistake. But along the way, we learned they had already been put on the spot about it by a previous Defence Minister, who had ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Not as important as they think they are
    Farmers have been whining a lot lately, about the methane targets in the Zero Carbon Bill, about Canterbury's proposed nitrogen limits, and about the government's new proposals to stop them from shitting in our lakes and rivers. These policies are "throwing farmers under the tractor", they will force farmers off ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Behind Every Good Woman Should Stand – Another Good Woman.
    Alone, Alone, All, All, Alone: To argue that the Prime Minister is the victim of her advisers’ failure to keep her informed may offer Jacinda some measure of exoneration – but only at the cost of casting her as a hopeless political ingénue. A star-dusted muppet, whose only purpose is to ...
    4 days ago
  • Poor quality, poorly educated kiddie ‘Journalists’ spreading fake news
    In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    4 days ago
  • Chris Trotter on the BFD
    I don't want to give pblicity to certain parts of the internet that are better left to fester in their own irrelevance (I know, a bit like this place) but the listing of Chris Trotter as a 'author' on Cameron Slater's spinoff website, the BFD requires some explanation.Now, I don't ...
    5 days ago
  • Sex is not a spectrum
    The text below is a Twitter thread by Heather Heying that explains the essence of sexual reproduction and it long evolutionary history. She is an evolutionary biologist and a “professor-in-exile” after she and her husband, Bret Weinstein, stood up to supporters of an enforced “Day of Absence” for white staff and teachers ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • Climate Change: Trees, aviation, and offsets
    With crunch time for new Zealand climate policy approaching, most of the New Zealand media have got on board with a global reporting effort to cover the issue. There's one strand of stories today about polling and what it shows about changing public attitudes to the crisis, but the strand ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Pissing-Off The Israelis Is A High-Risk Strategy.
    Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...
    5 days ago
  • Something to go to in Wellington
    Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A founding member responds to Peace Action Wellington
    by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above  the beaches.  In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • “Mistakes and errors”
    Current and former NZDF top brass are being publicly grilled this week by the hit and run inquiry over their public responses to allegations of civilian casualties. Previously, they've claimed there were no casualties, a position which led them to lie to Ministers and to the public. Now, they're saying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • “Homosexuality is same-sex attraction and relationships, not heterosexuals with delusions of gende...
    by Rafael D. Quiles (gender-critical gay man from Puerto Rico) The writing on the wall is right in people’s faces and people just don’t see it or don’t want to. What could actually possess a heterosexual male to want to feminize himself and claim that he is a lesbian? Because ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Trump: “Where’s my favourite dictator?”
    From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...
    6 days ago
  • Magdalen Burns, 1983-2019, fighter for women’s liberation
    by the Redline blog collective At Redline we are very saddened to hear of the death of Magdalen Burns who passed away on the morning of Friday, September 13 (British time). Magdalen was a great fighter for the rights of women in general and lesbian women in particular, a defender ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Parliament and the Executive
    The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • The Abigail Article; Martyn Bradbury’s Article, and My Response
    . . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • Police will have to wear silly Buckingham Palace hats from now on, says Police Minister
    Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    1 week ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    1 week ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    1 week ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    1 week ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    2 weeks ago

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