Covid, the US President and the Evangelical churches

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, September 10th, 2020 - 123 comments
Categories: covid-19, Donald Trump, religion, uncategorized - Tags:

Some interesting news both locally and internationally over the past few days.

Bob Woodward has written a book that suggests that for political reasons associated with his re-election chances Donald Trump downplayed the severity of the Covid threat, even though he was well aware of what the risks were.  From CNN:

President Donald Trump admitted he knew weeks before the first confirmed US coronavirus death that the virus was dangerous, airborne, highly contagious and “more deadly than even your strenuous flus,” and that he repeatedly played it down publicly, according to legendary journalist Bob Woodward in his new book “Rage.”

“This is deadly stuff,” Trump told Woodward on February 7.

In a series of interviews with Woodward, Trump revealed that he had a surprising level of detail about the threat of the virus earlier than previously known. “Pretty amazing,” Trump told Woodward, adding that the coronavirus was maybe five times “more deadly” than the flu.

Trump’s admissions are in stark contrast to his frequent public comments at the time insisting that the virus was “going to disappear” and “all work out fine.”

The book, using Trump’s own words, depicts a President who has betrayed the public trust and the most fundamental responsibilities of his office. In “Rage,” Trump says the job of a president is “to keep our country safe.” But in early February, Trump told Woodward he knew how deadly the virus was, and in March, admitted he kept that knowledge hidden from the public.

“I wanted to always play it down,” Trump told Woodward on March 19, even as he had declared a national emergency over the virus days earlier. “I still like playing it down, because I don’t want to create a panic.”

Panics caused by the spread of a crippling pandemic that causes multiple fatalities are obviously bad for re-election chances.

And the United States influence has been shown recently with news that a New Zealand church with links to the US evangelical movement being blamed for the continued spread of the virus locally.  From Anusha Bradley at Radio New Zealand:

Health Minister Chris Hipkins has said some of the 43 people linked to the Mt Roskill Evangelical Fellowship church cluster in Auckland were sceptical about the seriousness of the pandemic, as church and community leaders say they face a battle to check the spread of false information.

Pakilau Manase Lua grew up in the Seventh Day Adventist church and said his own friends and family were guilty of spreading conspiracies and false information about Covid-19.

“I’ve personally received lots of private messages regarding information that people think is useful but is purely disinformation, either about the virus itself or fear around the vaccine,” he said.

Lua, who is the chairman of the Pacific Leadership Forum’s Pacific Response Coordination Team, said this spread was especially rife among those with links to conservative evangelical or pentecostal churches in the United States.

“It’s been spreading like wildfire through social media.”

There is a report that the police shut down a gathering at the church which was in breach of Covid restrictions and leaders were warned they could face prosecution if they gathered again.

The leaders of the church need to get this under control.  Covid is clearly is not part of a conspiracy.  It is a deadly virus that has caused the deaths of at least 900,000 people world wide.  Locally we can beat it.  But everyone needs to follow the advice of people who know what they are talking about.

Social media, especially Facebook has a lot to answer to and has been central in the spread of anti science information that is threatening to undermine .  Kathy Errington in Stuff explains why:

Conspiracy theories are highly engaging content online. It can be politically useful to get them behind your cause because they will relentlessly push your key messages out again and again. Yet they are leading people all over the world to ignore the necessary public health measures in place to protect their lives.

In a crisis this severe humans are hard-wired to be drawn towards conspiracy theories – we like big problems to have equally big causes, a term psychologists call proportionality bias. Surely something as catastrophic as COVID 19 must have an equally large, dark and complex origin story? Can it really be just a bat that likely caused all of this?

Well, yes, that’s it. There is no sinister world government involving Bill Gates and the United Nations getting together with governments globally to invent a pandemic. I worked in government long enough to say with certainty no government could ever pull this off. Even in the ‘before times’ it took months of planning for the Prime Minister to simply leave the country for a day and go to a rugby match.

This puts Gerry Brownlee’s just asking questions episode into perspective and shows how damaging to collective action it was.

For a local example of a political movement attempting to take advantage look no further than Jami Lee Ross’s and Billy Te Kahika’s Advance NZ Party.  The party has recently had a complaint concerning donations sent to the Serious Fraud Office then forwarded to the Electoral Commission. No doubt this will be regarded by some of further evidence of deep state action to suppress dissenting voices.

We can hold the virus at bay.  But we need to not follow the leadership or example provided by the United States.  Especially its current President.

123 comments on “Covid, the US President and the Evangelical churches ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Ad 1
    10 September 2020 at 8:47 am

    It amazes me that the Ministry of Health hasn't cottoned on to the ways in which Pacifika communities prefer to communicate.

    The Ministry of Pacific Peoples appear to be doing a better job, but it is not yet effective.

    The nodes for engaging with Pacifika peoples are not that hard to find and are incredibly influential.

    We have been expected to be calm and rational for far too long – when we know it's the Pacifica peoples who have the most to be afraid of.

    – The South Auckland Pacifika family who were infected a few weeks ago were utterly vilified by New Zealanders on social media, which makes the rest of them afraid

    – Pacifika in South Auckland are among the poorest and least healthy of peoples in New Zealand, so they are highly at risk personally from infection

    – Pacifika people are afraid of being targeted as overstayers, when those whose permits have stopped are not able to actually get back to the island homes they came from – no matter the assurances from government about this

    – Pacifika peoples are now unable to re-contact their relatives in the islands, or even conduct ceremonies in other than virtual form, or otherwise keep their communities and cultures cohesive

    – Pacifika people are poorly represented in the higher levels of the Ministry of Health

    – Pacifika people are one of the most highly vulnerable groups to unemployment at this time, and the jobs they have are mostly manual or poorly paid

    So Pacifika peoples have every reason to be afraid. New Zealand's entire society is not working for them and in many senses works against them.

    No one should expect people to be rational all the time in that context.

    This is exactly the wrong time to vilify Pacifika people or the churches to whom they belong. Everyone needs to keep just talking to each other, as softly and kindly and patiently as possible.

    • Muttonbird 1.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:05 am

      Nope. Lock these rule-breakers up.

      • Sabine 1.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:32 am

        start by closing the churches down that tell the congregation that 'god' is above 'government'.

        at the very least revoke the tax free status they so enjoy.

    • mickysavage 1.2
      10 September 2020 at 9:07 am

      Agree entirely about the Pacifika community and I have very carefully avoided any mention of ethnic background and concentrated solely on the source of the belief. This post is not an attempt to vilify anyone but is urging the church leaders to be more cooperative.

    • peterh 1.3
      10 September 2020 at 10:18 am

      Check out the trustees of the church, not a Pacifika name mybe blame in wrong quarters

      • Ad 1.3.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:42 am

        The spirit of race-based doxxing is alive in this one.

        • Muttonbird 1.3.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 10:44 am

          First post on the thread and you mentioned Pacifica about 20 times.

          frown

          • Ad 1.3.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 10:56 am

            Pacific leaders were mentioned in the post, you moron.

            And it didn't stop you attacking Pacifika churches either.

            At least I had the guts to stand up for them you fucking coward.

            • Muttonbird 1.3.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 10:59 am

              Enough with the abuse. Go have a cup of tea and look at the lake.

              • Ad …
                10 September 2020 at 11:04 am

                When you stop attacking belief systems that people have a human right to have, I will.

                • Muttonbird …
                  10 September 2020 at 11:10 am

                  They are entitled to those beliefs but when those beliefs endanger the lives and wellbeing of others, that is when they should be managed.

                  • Ad …
                    10 September 2020 at 11:20 am

                    That is not your job. Nor the job of political parties.

                    Nor is it the job of the mob to join in.

                    Stop being part of the mob.

    • Shanreagh 1.4
      10 September 2020 at 11:58 am

      Pasifika is the usual spelling. Please can we use this. Nothing worse than having one's name etc spelt incorrectly – (from one who knows whose surname has been incorrectly spelt by others for generations) .

      'There has been some dispute over the correct spelling of Pasifika, sometimes spelt Pasefika, Pacifica, Pacifika. TAGATA PASIFIKA is generally accepted as correct and publicly reinforced by the Television New Zealand programme now also known by the same name but was previously spelt TANGATA PASIFIKA'. Wiki

      • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1
        10 September 2020 at 1:17 pm

        Pasifika is the usual spelling.

        No, really, it isn't.

        pacific (adj.)
        1540s, "tending to make peace, concillatory," from Middle French pacifique, from Latin pacificus "peaceful, peace-making,"

        The Pacific Ocean (1660 in English) was famously so called in 1519 by Magellan when he sailed into it and found it calmer than the stormy Atlantic, or at least calmer than he expected it to be.

        The spelling you suggest seems to be cultural misappropriation by the People's of the Pacific to make them seem more important than they are.

        • Shanreagh 1.4.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 2:31 pm

          Just pointing out the usual name for the people of the Pacific, as they are known in NZ. I was not speaking of the adjective pacific or Magellan.

          I am not sure just what you are talking of in the last sentence but it sounds pretty awful to me. Hopefully you were kidding?

          We in NZ have much to be thankful for our Tagata Pasifika neighbours and our fellow NZ citizens who are of Pasifika origin. All races and cultures in NZ are important to me. Is there a list somewhere that has ratings of the relative importance of the various races on it?

          • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:46 pm

            Just pointing out the usual name for the people of the Pacific, as they are known in NZ.

            That's just it – its NOT the usual name.

            Hopefully you were kidding?

            No, I wasn't. Māori and others get upset when other peoples misappropriate their culture. Am I not allowed to get upset when they misappropriate mine?

            We in NZ have much to be thankful for our Tagata Pasifika neighbours and our fellow NZ citizens who are of Pasifika origin.

            Repeating the misspelling still doesn't make it right.

            • Shanreagh 1.4.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 3:32 pm

              Not sure what the relevance of the Whanganui debate is. Our family with its the years of people spelling our name incorrectly welcomed the correction to Whanganui. Sure if you want to keep calling our Pasifika peoples, Pacific or Magellan people whatever you want to call them, that is fine. Just don't try to tell me that correcting spelling from Wanganui to Whanganui is cultural appropriation.

              And what did you actually mean by this?

              …….People's of the Pacific to make them seem more important than they are.

              Don't you agree that Pasifika people have a place and importance in NZ? Just as Maori do & Ngati Vikitoria and all later arrivals.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                10 September 2020 at 4:38 pm

                Not sure what the relevance of the Whanganui debate is.

                The Wanganui debate was about the misspelling of Whanganui and how it was culturally bad.

                Well, now we have Pacific people's purposefully misspelling Pacifica in the same way. If the misspelling of Whanganui was bad then the misspelling of Pacifica is also bad.

                Don't you agree that Pasifika people have a place and importance in NZ?

                No more than anyone else which seems to be the problem as they seem to think that they're more important. As your misspelling of Pacifica is proof of your double standard.

                The word Pacifica is not part of any Polynesian language so stop misspelling it.

                • Shanreagh …
                  11 September 2020 at 8:47 am

                  Reading Stuff this morning I note that twice the reference was to Pasifika people, not Pacifica, Magellan, PI.

                  'Pasifika Medical Association chief executive Debbie Sorensen….'

                  'Auckland councillor and former police officer Alf Filipaina said authorities had to be careful not to create the perception that people who needed to be contacted were in trouble.

                  He would not want to see police knocking on doors or making calls.

                  He did not have a particular problem with an officer offering advice in the background, saying they could have good techniques for talking to people and getting information.

                  But they should be Pasifika – like many of those in the cluster – because they would know the best way to approach the community, he said.'

                  So looks like this part of the media does use this word in reporting people who does identify as Pasifika. '

                  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300104634/pacific-health-leaders-unimpressed-with-police-involvement-in-covid19-contact-tracing

                  Living in Wellington in a suburb I share with Pasifika people I wondered if Wellington was an aberration as I see the word Pasifika in many places. I then looked up Pasifika, without the Tagata and find this

                  Pasifika is a term that is unique to Aotearoa and is a term coined by government agencies to describe migrants from the Pacific region and their descendants, who now call Aotearoa home.2014

                  and this

                  Pasifika in British English

                  (pəˈsɪfɪkə) Australian and New Zealand

                  PLURAL NOUN

                  1. people from the islands of the South Pacific and their descendants

                  ADJECTIVE

                  1. of or relating to these people or their culture

                  Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

                  Word origin

                  C21: from Niuean

                  So the word Pasifika comes from Niuean.

                  Our family, with its surname chronically spelled incorrectly, is sensitive to the words that people use to describe themselves. My dad used to say the biggest compliment is say people's names with a smile on meeting and to spell it correctly from thereon. I reject utterly and totally trying to describe people by names they do not use themselves or to criticise those names when they are used. I reject utterly that Pasifika people

                  seem to think that they're more important

                  The virus that started the second wave is one not seen in NZ before.

                  Notwithstanding the restrictions and levels and requests for testing we still rely on, as well, a hearts & minds/information sharing approach. Hopefully this has borne fruit with the majority of the church congregation having been tested by 8.00am yesterday.

                  This thread has made me uneasy, very squirmy, very sad with the assigning of attitudes to race or culture rather than belief systems and with an unwillingness to call Pacific people by a name that is used in NZ and that is used by them to identify themselves as a group.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    13 September 2020 at 11:21 am

                    And just when did the Niuean have Pacific in their native tongue?

                    The answer, of course, is that they didn't.

                    Like Wanganui, it's a misspelling.

                    My dad used to say the biggest compliment is say people's names with a smile on meeting and to spell it correctly from thereon.

                    So did mine.

                    I reject utterly that Pasifika people

                    seem to think that they're more important

                    The problem, of course, is that they do. It was that self-importance that had them stopping the ocean sanctuary at the Kermadecs which they had no right to do.

                    But they should be Pasifika – like many of those in the cluster – because they would know the best way to approach the community, he said.’

                    Applied racism.

        • cathy-o 1.4.1.2
          13 September 2020 at 5:42 am

          if you’re so concerned with being pedantic why do you use the greengrocer’s apostrophe for a simple plural?

      • jimekus 1.4.2
        13 September 2020 at 2:12 pm

        What's wrong with Pacificx to go with the newly invented term of Latinx?

  2. Red 2
    10 September 2020 at 8:57 am

    I agree to point but Pacifica people also need to take personal responsibility and accountability. They are not all children and I suggest many of them find it patronising how they get lumped into group all the time and treated like a kindergarten Cohort by so called do gooders

    • Andre 2.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:02 am

      In this instance, it's starting to look like some of them may have behaved like a kindergarten cohort.

      • Red 2.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 9:26 am

        True, hence treat them accordingly like any one else, dont lump every Pacific Islander as a child that needs special attention or kid gloves By the far the majority are bloody good citizens and pulling just as hard as every other kiwi

  3. EE 3
    10 September 2020 at 9:32 am

    Religious people believing conspiracy theories.
    Isn’t a belief in god the ultimate conspiracy theory?
    Some invisible supernatural being pulling all the strings.

    • Ad 3.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:57 am

      You don't recognise the fact-free conspiracies that pertain right across ordinary life. Conspiracy and fact-free behaviour change campaigns are all around us – they are certainly not specific to religious communities.

      But top work for attacking our human rights.

    • Dennis Frank 3.2
      10 September 2020 at 11:35 am

      Yeah, but facts can be ascertained. In this situation, investigators ought to find out if any religious leaders told the congregation to ignore the govt rules because that was god's will. Such people are traditionally inclined to declare the will of god so their followers will see them as authorities.

      When the public interest lies in adherence to govt rules, to maintain public health, disobedience authorised by a god is a significant problem.

      Fact-finding is therefore essential. I predict neither National or Labour will demand it. Postmodernism created a culture in which facts are a matter of opinion. They go with that flow…

  4. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 4
    10 September 2020 at 9:34 am

    If fucking religion, whether Pacifica or otherwise, is responsible for the continuation/spread of the virus in NZ, I would metaphorically burn down every fucking church in the country.
    Note: metaphorically!

    • greywarshark 4.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:57 am

      TonyV You can't take this attitude, after reflection. It is a human response of behaviour showing anger to another human behaviour that is disagreed with. If the first behaviour is regarded as irrational, then a quick, reactive response to it is also irrational. We are an irrational species, inclined not to sit down and nut things out but to respond emotionally especially in large groups where the thinkers label the behaviour as a 'contagion'.

      Emotional Contagion in groups

      This study focuses on emotional contagion, "a process in which a person or group influences the emotions, or behavior of another person or group through the conscious or unconscious induction of emotion states and behavioral attitudes" (Schoenewolf , 1990: 50; emphasis added), in particular, the contagion of "everyday" … https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1101&context=mgmt_papers

    • Ad 4.2
      10 September 2020 at 9:58 am

      This is the kind of attitude that shot and killed 50 people in Christchurch.

      Nice work for siding with terror.

      • Muttonbird 4.2.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:11 am

        You do know what metaphorical means, don't you?

      • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 4.2.2
        10 September 2020 at 10:13 am

        I was at pains to state 'metaphorically.' Of course I over-reacted and, in the best traditions of parliament, I stand, withdraw and apologise,

        But take their tax free status off them, seize their property, close their places of worship.

        If they can't act in the best interests of our 'team of 5 million,' then make it clear to them that their behaviour will not be tolerated.

        • Muttonbird 4.2.2.1
          10 September 2020 at 10:17 am

          But take their tax free status off them, seize their property, close their places of worship.

          Yep. These guys sell god for profit and profit they do. $1.8million tithing in the collection bag last year and none of it goes to the health budget which has to clean up their mess.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363638

          • Adrian 4.2.2.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:14 pm

            This is a shitload of money from the 321 adult and children that are required to test so tithing represents $5607 per person say 20k per family.

            Fuck me thats a lot, How can I start a church? thats right I can't do it, I've got christian values.

              • karol121 …
                10 September 2020 at 3:00 pm

                "Once I receive your money, I will only take half, purely for "admin costs" such as a mansion or two, luxury transport, bible seminars at flash resorts, flash clobber, security staff with earpieces stuffed into their canals wearing very dark shades, and other incidental expenses so that I can keep spreading the good word for y'all.

                The other half, I will collect up in cash, which I will throw it into the air in the good lord's direction. If he rejects the offer by not catching the cash, I will keep it as an indication that he does not need it immediately, and that he is entrusting me with his portion"

                I see that one commentator (Hugh Yonn) posting on this video clip reckons he was in booby with a guy who milked one enterprising evangelist loot gatherer for about 8 mil over a 4 year period.

                He, he, he! Talk about swimming with sharks.wink

        • weka 4.2.2.2
          10 September 2020 at 10:29 am

          I can't really see a good reason to use covid to advance anti-religion positions. All that will happen is religious alt people will radicalise away from progressives even further. This is a key in what is happening with the BTK crowd, and the left ignoring, ridiculing and ostracising those communities is a massive mistake.

          The point's been made that the state overreacting will cement anti-state ideology. This doesn't mean not acting, it means acting in ways that actually work for the people involved. eg my first response to this news was that the police should be used. But this is a poor stand alone response. I've been thinking already that we need a covid warden system, of trusted people in communities who can step in and deal with situations in context.

          Police are always there as a back up and obv should be used in situations like people absconding from Q. But we need to get more nuanced in how we call people into the need to work together. Imo you can't force communities to do this, you have to work with them.

        • Ad 4.2.2.3
          10 September 2020 at 10:44 am

          Why the tax status of a church is relevant to preventing the spread of Covid-19 is something you will have to explain to us.

          • greywarshark 4.2.2.3.1
            10 September 2020 at 12:11 pm

            It's part of selling religion being a business, yet still being tax-free even when they are a force to be reckoned with! That means that many new churches or church movements are operating for a buck, and there may be little actual moral suasion available to appeal to. This is part of the religious matrix that capitalism has thrown up in these days of money worship.

            (I looked up suasion to see if it is different to persuasion and I thought the example that came up was relevant:
            persuasion as opposed to force or compulsion.
            "the clearing banks found the use of both moral suasion and direct controls particularly irksome")

        • RedLogix 4.2.2.4
          10 September 2020 at 11:19 am

          And some people come all over anxious when I use the phrase 'the authoritarian left' … devil

          Yes a pandemic requires temporary measures that are more restrictive than usual, but it's not an excuse to go full metal Jacobin on us.

          • AB 4.2.2.4.1
            10 September 2020 at 12:08 pm

            "some people come all over anxious when I use the phrase 'the authoritarian left'"

            I think the anxiety (or bemusement?) comes from your extrapolation of a few intemperate blurts from a handful of individuals on The Standard, into the existence of a whole political movement that is poised to impose 'Marxism' on us by force.

            • RedLogix 4.2.2.4.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 12:19 pm

              And when challenged on these ‘intemperate outbursts’ the individuals involved are doubling down, strongly arguing for their authoritarian vision.

              And given how there are no Marxists I find it quite astonishing how much push back I get when I suggest maybe, given it's appalling track record, that it's time the left drew a line under marxist thinking and moved on.

              And I’m stopping here, lest we go further OT again.

        • JohnSelway 4.2.2.5
          10 September 2020 at 2:10 pm

          " But take their tax free status off them, seize their property, close their places of worship."

          The tax free bit bothers me the most. Fucking Sanitarum foods don't pay any income taxes.

          • RedBaronCV 4.2.2.5.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:38 pm

            I too have a problem with some of the "tax free" religion. When a religion provides community or welfare services that are generally available to all according to their need for the service that feels okay but when the service is only provided based on the adherence of the recipient to the service provider's views then it feels not okay. I'd suggest tax free status based on an internal/external test of recipients.

            But didn't the charities commission chase Greenpeace instead?

            Also some of the tithing undertaken can affect families financially.

            Not that any of this has much to do with covid unless long term decreasing of resources means less money to spend on disinformation.

  5. greywarshark 5
    10 September 2020 at 9:44 am

    I wrote the other day about reading a 'faction' novel on the effect of the bubonic plague on Eyam in England in the 16th century. There was a political changeover at the time from Cromwell's Puritanism back to one of their kings, could have been Charles Second.

    The Puritan minister was very into finding it a retribution or punishment that came to those who had not kept to the rules or outright sinned. And they had so many rules. People felt helpless and examined themselves to see what they might have been guilty of in thought, word or deed.

    That minister called on Psalm 91 according to the author. It is a sort of prayer of promise of what goodness will come to people who live right. It is really one of hope that life will be good to them. But it was interpreted as a statement from God and people who hadn't understanding of how this terrible plague spread, were mystified and terrified. It is bad when this style of preaching is adopted in the 21st century when we know so much and have had to adjust our Christian beliefs to incorporate these understandings.

    https://www.kingjamesbible.me/Psalms-Chapter-91/

    These are lovely words – from the King James Version, poetic and uplifting. But really a prayer, a desire for good, which no-one can be sure will be granted.

    6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
    7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
    9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
    10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
    11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
    12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

  6. joe90 6
    10 September 2020 at 10:03 am

    Arseholes deliberately flouted alerts, met illegally, played silly-buggars over testing and failed to cooperate with contact tracing efforts. Little wonder abuse thrives in these fundie outfits. Fuck ém.

    • weka 6.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:30 am

      "Fuck ém."

      Nek minit, another outbreak. People who don't trust the state won't trust it more if they're ostracised.

      • Sabine 6.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:35 am

        so what to do then?

        And why don't they trust the government? Maybe because preachers in these churches are given talking points from the US to use here? Women to be stay at home daughters until married, then to be stay at home wifes? God above government? Etc?

        If one were to care one could follow the talking points all the way back to a rightwing 'evangelic' think tank somehwere in the States.

        honestly i agree, fuck em. The whole world is currently suffering and we will charge people a 300NZD instant fine if they dare to sit on a bus without a mask of sort, but there…..lets be kind n gentle lest there is another outbreak?

        • woodart 6.1.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 4:52 pm

          if they dont trust the state, obviously they dont wont ANY help from the state when the shit hits the fan, be we know that isnt true. its just another bunch of selfish buggers taking advantage of a team of five million. if they dont want to be part of a team of five million, they should be honest enough to bugger off and start their own team, in their own sandpit.

  7. tc 7
    10 September 2020 at 10:04 am

    We have a usa problem mickey. The zuck is effectively backing this on stalkbook, his recent wibbling comedians will devour.
    He should just front in the bathrobe like in the movie to add some flair.

  8. Muttonbird 8
    10 September 2020 at 10:05 am

    The ironing is strong with these ultra right-wing god-botherers. Nearly super-spreader and defender of all things conservative, Duncan Garner, says the Mt Roskill Evangelical Church and the Bay Roskill Rugby League Club are so closely related they are the same organisation.

    The deliberate rule-breaking and lying to health authorities is the very thing stopping community and kids' sport from resuming in Auckland. They have essentially destroyed the remainder of the winter season across all codes not only for themselves and their own kids but for everyone else and their kids too.

    So, so community minded, aren’t they?

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/duncan-garner-mt-roskill-evangelical-church-not-secret-sect-of-wealthy-elites.html

    • Ad 8.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:54 am

      And those Jews right?

      And those Muslims! Forming groups. Doing engagement.

      We should actively root out all communities because of their superspreader risk.

      Let's scorch the earth with blame.

      • Muttonbird 8.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:58 am

        False equivalence. Try again, hotshot.

        • Ad 8.1.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:05 am

          Unchecked rage from the masses comes to them all.

          Check it building on ZB and on Facebook right now.

          The same untrammelled rise of hate.

          • Muttonbird 8.1.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 11:13 am

            Another nice try. People do get angry without being right wing. You do it yourself about some pretty esoteric, meaningless shit.

            • Ad 8.1.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 11:18 am

              Getting angry at people for getting infected with Covid 19 is wrong.

              Doesn't matter their social or political affiliation.

              Completely and utterly the wrong approach.

              • Muttonbird …
                10 September 2020 at 11:25 am

                Heard this idea from the DG. People aren't the problem, the virus is the problem.

                That much is true until people also become the problem…

                • Ad …
                  10 September 2020 at 11:34 am

                  Both the Director General and the Prime Minister.

                  We've listened so far and they've been right every time.

                  They have earned our trust on this one as well.

        • RedLogix 8.1.1.2
          10 September 2020 at 11:33 am

          False equivalence. Try again, hotshot.

          The second wave outbreak in North Melbourne substantially originated in the Muslim community there, some of whom expressed skeptical, dismissive or casual attitudes towards the virus.

          But Dan Andrews state govt was at pains not to make the community the problem, rather it focused on communicating better with them and sorting through the multiple issues in front of them. The govt and most of the media made a real effort to avoid vilification and scapegoating.

          The equivalence in this example is 100% valid.

          • Ad 8.1.1.2.1
            10 September 2020 at 11:35 am

            Dan Andrews is walking a principled line, without much Federal support.

            • Muttonbird 8.1.1.2.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 12:00 pm

              Headed up the very worst Covid response in the Pacific region. We'll be like Melbourne too if communities are allowed to make up their own rules.

              • greywarshark …
                10 September 2020 at 12:15 pm

                So right Muttonbird – cool line of logic can't be faulted.

              • RedLogix …
                10 September 2020 at 12:38 pm

                So should we be 'metaphorically' burning down mosques as well?

                The root cause the failure to deal early and effectively with the outbreak in Victoria is widely recognised as being the more to do with the highly fragmented and commercialised nature of their health system … a legacy of previous liberal state govts.

                For instance when you go into a hospital in VIC, it's more like a building housing a collection of small businesses, than an integrated operation as kiwis would expect. Much the same applies across the whole state, and while it works OK at handling individual cases, it's a system that struggles to handle community wide pandemics.

                By contrast the health system here in QLD works a lot more like the one we have in NZ, and the relative outcomes reflect this.

                Plus I think we should also acknowledge the role of Vitamin D plays in protecting people becoming serious cases of COVID. That's a factor that needs to be understood before we start blaming people for becoming ill.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  10 September 2020 at 1:50 pm

                  For instance when you go into a hospital in VIC, it's more like a building housing a collection of small businesses, than an integrated operation as kiwis would expect.

                  Went to a physiotherapist a while back and the building was most definitely a collection of small businesses than an integrated operation which, as you imply, is another failure of capitalism.

                  Health should be a state monopolly.

                  Plus I think we should also acknowledge the role of Vitamin D plays in protecting people becoming serious cases of COVID.

                  I recall a news item from last century. A young couple had their first born who was constantly sick. Turns out the problem was that they'd followed all advice on covering from the sun to prevent skin cancer and thus the child just was getting enough sunlight to generate the vitamin D that she needed.

                  Yes, people, to actually be healthy you need sunlight.

                  • JohnSelway …
                    10 September 2020 at 2:12 pm

                    "Health should be a state monopolly."

                    If there is a public option available but people want to pay money to have private healthcare why not let them?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      10 September 2020 at 2:48 pm

                      Because it results in a misallocation of resources and thus leads to long queues and avoidable harm being caused all for the selfishness of those few.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      10 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

                      How does it result in misallocation of resources? As far as I am aware the private hospitals have to source their own resources and are not government provided.

                      How does a private hospital cause long queues at a public hospital?

                      How is it selfish to pay for your own healthcare instead of going through the public hospitals?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      10 September 2020 at 4:19 pm

                      JS, even during times of teacher shortages, private schools never seem to have too much trouble sourcing the teachers they need. I suspect it's much the same with medical specialists and the proportion of time some choose to allocate to public vs private practice. Never mind that in NZ most doctors and nurses receive their initial training in publically-funded institutions; private practices remove some of that indispensible health service 'resource' (clinicians, nurses, etc.) from the 'pool' available to public hospitals.

                      If NZ resourced our public health services adequately, and put more $$$ into university medical schools, then maybe more wealthy individuals would choose to be treated in our (still) excellent but congested public health system. But where do the $$$ come from?

                      I'd prefer to live in a society where an individual's financial wherewithal didn't determine the quality and timeliness of the health services and treatments they could access, but that's just me.

                    • RedLogix …
                      10 September 2020 at 4:43 pm

                      @DMK

                      The socialist left has very successfully used universal access to both education and health as an indirect and effective means of mitigating inequality. So when we see wealthy individuals bypassing the system to purchase more than the usual share we quite understandably get anxious about it. It feels like they're cheating.

                      The problem we run up against is that providing 100% coverage (in other words the very best health or education services) to 100% of the people 100% of the time is beyond our resources. It's partly a law of diminishing returns; a decently developed nation can provide say 80% coverage at a cost of around 5 – 10% of GDP. But as we approach 100% the costs accelerate in a non-linear fashion that no nation has been able to afford or politically sustain.

                      This creates an intractable gap between what can be universally provided, and the potential demand. It forces the system into some form of rationing at the margins; the public sector does it by often arcane and non-transparent waiting list rules, the private sector by a market mechanism. Which of these mechanisms is morally preferable isn't obvious to me and would make for a good debate. Although I can probably safely say that from the perspective of the person suffering and needing urgent medical treatment, if they can afford to pay for it the choice would be a lot more clear cut in the moment.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      10 September 2020 at 10:05 pm

                      RL, I understand it's not realistic to eliminate all unmet health needs in any society. I'm ideologically opposed to healthcare 'services' in which access to timely critical healthcare is determined even in part by a market mechanism, and that's the system we have in NZ – a system where those that can afford it may purchase private healthcare services and live longer with a better quality of life (on average) as a result.

                      I believe that ideally preventable gaps of this type should be minimised, and as such that any and all proposed changes to the public health service (at least) should be analysed for the possibilty that they might exacerbate inequality of access and health outcomes. I'll leave it to those of a more pragmatic persuasion to scrap over the acceptable sizes of the many and varied gaps that exist in our society, but IMHO those gaps are plenty wide enough already – please let’s try to close them, or at the very least not let them get any worse.

                      In her essay below, Liang describes poverty as a “heritable condition” that perpetuates and amplifies through generations: “It is also not hard to see how individual poverty flows into communities and society, with downstream effects on economics, crime and health, as well as many other systems. Loosen one strand and everything else unravels.”

                      A Kete Half Empty

                      Poverty is your problem, it is everyone’s problem, not just those who are in poverty. – Rebecca, a child from Te Puru

                      https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-currently/poverty-new-zealand-kete-half-empty

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      10 September 2020 at 10:19 pm

                      How does it result in misallocation of resources? As far as I am aware the private hospitals have to source their own resources and are not government provided.

                      Except that they don't. They grab public hospital doctors and use them thus taking them away from the public queues.

          • Muttonbird 8.1.1.2.2
            10 September 2020 at 12:02 pm

            All the more reason to manage those communities properly! Govern, ffs.

            • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.2.2.1
              10 September 2020 at 1:53 pm

              Not so much manage those communities but ensure that they're properly communicated with.

              Something that we seem to have forgotten in this age of the Information Super-highway. People still need to be informed from reputable sources and the community needs to ensure that people have that information.

  9. Andre 9
    10 September 2020 at 10:11 am

    The superspreading event for this latest outbreak may be religion-related. But what were they earlier this year?

    A wedding leer-up. An industry conference. An ordinary everyday function at an ordinary everyday pub in an ordinary everyday town. A school. Aged-care community homes.

    What all of these have in common (except the rest-homes) is large numbers of people gathering close together making loud mouth-noises at each other for long periods of times.

    Let's keep the attention on the actual behaviour that's risky. The motivations and demographics of those that tend towards those behaviours is very much a secondary thing, to be considered when figuring out new ways to meet their needs in ways that remove or reduce the transmission risk.

    • weka 9.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:31 am

      I agree, although we're not in March now. We know what works, and we have communities and groups of people deliberately working against that. In addition to the behaviours around covid we're going to have to address what to do about the conspiracy, low science literacy, anti-govt stuff.

      • Sabine 9.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:50 am

        Anti government types – Better and more honest government that actually works for the people – and the current options are not doing a stellar job here – considering that the poor and very poor and soon to be really poor working class are getting nothing but lipservice from the no – mates party, the labour party and all others. One can't even call it crumps what falls of these tables.

        Low science literacy – maybe provide the same funds to the seriously underfunded schools where these people live, rather then just shoveling money into the schools for the children of the very rich and politically connected?

        Conspiracy – in absence of a better narrative from government conspiracies are growing, besides its only a conspiracy until its proven correct.

        • Peter 9.1.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:35 am

          The current options are not doing a stellar job all right. People being told to social distance, not be in close quarters big gatherings, wearing masks, hand-washing and so on aren't working at stellar levels.

          It's a blame society so who to blame for the Mt Roskill outbreak? Ardern? Hipkins? Bloomfield? They didn't do a stellar job.

          Do you expect them to do stellar jobs for every individual everywhere including all churches.

          Ardern cannot beat the Bible. Ardern cannot beat the power of the daily dependence some people have on their bible and their pastor. Ardern cannot harness or change the ignorance which has been captured by others.

          • Sabine 9.1.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 12:21 pm

            i have not said a word about hte actions of the government in regards to Covid. Firstly.

            Secondly my remarks are in regards to Wekas comment, which also has nothing to do with the actions of the Government in regards to Covid.

            Ardern can't beat the bible, but she could have put enough money in the pockets of the poor to not be so poor as to be reliant on churches not only for the souls but also for the physical aspect of living. Many of these churches are the first places people go to when they come into issues with money, housing, food insecurity etc. And on this the government has done a job that is less then stellar.

            Ardern cannot harness or change the ingnorance captured by others, true, but she can fund low decile schools, build classrooms where kids now sit in prota coms without heating or cooling, can fund a lunch programm for every kid every where and not just a wee program here and there, she can fund literacy classes for adults, she can fund free tampons and other female hygiene products to be dispensed in low decile schools so that girls can go to school without fear of running around with blood patches on their nether regions, but we only get a little trial in the Waikato (thanks to the Greens btw) and so on and so on and so on, and all of that is part of the Government not doing a stellar job, and the void is filled by Churches, Temples and Qanon.

            And last but least, yes i expect the Government to do a stellar job for all and not just a few. And if we can charge people on a bus a instant 300 NZD fine for not wearing a mask, then the government can charge a fine to churches who don't obey the rules, or even revoke their tax exempt status. Its not as if the government does not have tools to use.

            • Peter 9.1.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 2:32 pm

              She should change history but she can't. She should have pushed through all sorts of social-economic policies to dramatically change the face of the country which sees it as it is. You can't do that when you get 38% of the votes.

              Don't worry the Collins led Government will be more stellar the Ardern's. And don't worry about kids in unheated portacom classrooms. With Act's education policy the woes will be a thing of the past:

              • "Provide every child with a Student Education Account. A child will receive $250,000 of taxpayer-funded education over their life, but parents have little choice in how it’s spent. ACT will empower parents by placing this money in a Student Education Account. Parents will be able to use it at any registered educational institution that will accept their child’s enrolment, public or private."
    • Draco T Bastard 9.2
      10 September 2020 at 1:55 pm

      The motivations and demographics of those that tend towards those behaviours is very much a secondary thing,

      I'd consider those things to be a primary consideration. Its those motives that's driving the faulty behaviour.

  10. Treetop 10
    10 September 2020 at 10:15 am

    Trump was probably hoping that Covid – 19 would taper off like SARS did or a treatment or a vaccine to be found.

    The message needs to be safety first when the actions of others can have a deadly impact or cause long term harm to health.

    Strength to face uncertainty, percieved unfairness, be willing to do what needs to be done to be safe and keep others safe is required and more…

    • mauī 10.1
      10 September 2020 at 11:08 am

      It appears Covid does taper off as Sweden has found (unless it comes back in winter). Also the US and the UK are quickly returning to their baseline death rates.

      • Treetop 10.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 12:42 pm

        Good news re the tapering off. You raise the winter period, government leaders would be bracing for this.

        Do you know what the factors involved for the tapering off are?

        I am interested in whether or not a strain of Covid – 19 is weakening. There are people out there who will have both flu and Covid – 19 at the same time. The out look for the latter part of 2020 is a worry for northern hemisphere countries.

  11. Muttonbird 11
    10 September 2020 at 10:47 am

    This is why funerals should never, ever be exempted from gathering limits. Breeding grounds for Coronavirus.

    People die. In a pandemic, deal with it.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300103658/why-new-subcluster-has-officials-on-orange-alert

    • Treetop 11.1
      10 September 2020 at 8:29 pm

      Managing to track and trace community cases at level 2 or 2.5 is bullshit.

      I cannot name a country where community spread has extinguished under a level 2 or 2.5.

  12. Anne 12
    10 September 2020 at 10:50 am

    Pacific leaders – and I mean the real leaders not the fundamentalist upstarts – should be taking the lead here. They probably are behind the scenes, but there is an element of urgency now. These individuals (and they're not all of Pacific origin) are effectively holding the rest of NZ to ransom. They need re-education but that takes time.

    In the meantime a bit of stick to bring them into line is essential. I hope the police together with community leaders can achieve something very soon.

    Fury over their behaviour is building fast – as evidenced by Lisa Owen's comment that Checkpoint had received many texts and emails from around the country expressing anger at what has transpired.

    • Muttonbird 12.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:52 am

      Fury is building fast and it could impact the election if the government doesn’t get it right. Perhaps this is what the right wing fundamentalist christians want – deliberate spread…

      When this Americold outbreak began were told a community health response was the right one, rather than a one-size-fits-all health response, which was racist apparently.

      Well, turns out the community health response doesn't work, and the Auckland region is paying a heavy price.

    • Ad 12.2
      10 September 2020 at 11:01 am

      I know it's counterintuitive, but the left need to defend the poor not attack them right now.

      • Muttonbird 12.2.1
        10 September 2020 at 11:16 am

        The left need to get the country moving again, not pander to right-wing fundy nut jobs.

        • Ad 12.2.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:21 am

          The government is managing this just fine without the help of you or any other part of the raging mob.

          • Muttonbird 12.2.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 11:27 am

            No it's not. The dangers of spread by people who flout the rules, lie to health authorities, don't isolate when told to, are well known by now.

            This cluster wasn't watched closely enough and Auckland is paying dearly.

          • Sabine 12.2.1.1.2
            10 September 2020 at 11:32 am

            ;hahahahah, no the government is not managing this fine. The poor are poorer now then they were three years ago, and while one can blame Covid for it, it is the current government that is not doing a single thing to help the poor. Specifically it is not giving the poor the money they need to not be poor.

          • Treetop 12.2.1.1.3
            10 September 2020 at 12:59 pm

            How would you decrease the infections stemming from the main cluster?

            Covid – 19 is a serious issue and the majority of people are making Covid the issue and would not berate people for their beliefs.

            There needs to be consequences for breaking the law even if people think this is unfair.

            What should the consequences be for transmitting a terrible virus by not naming contacts or isolating?

        • Gabby 12.2.1.2
          10 September 2020 at 6:10 pm

          The Fellowship doesn't seem to be particularly poor.

          • Muttonbird 12.2.1.2.1
            10 September 2020 at 6:16 pm

            They are not. They can afford $183 per parishioner per week in tithing. This is probably why Ad is so attracted to them.

      • Anne 12.2.2
        10 September 2020 at 11:22 am

        I'm not attacking the poor Ad. To the contrary. The majority are doing their best to abide by the rules. I think that when we come out of this time they should be specifically rewarded for their efforts. I believe they will be – provided this govt. stays in power.

        My gripe is with the stupid and naive who (as I said @ 12) are not confined to South Pacifica. In the short term they need the long arm of the law to bring them into line. In the long term they need re-educating.

        • Ad 12.2.2.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:28 am

          Agree.

          Ardern has done pretty well to stand up to the disquiet so far: she is a true leader on this one.

          The longer the leaders stay rational and don't start on a witch hunt, the more society will be protected.

      • Peter 12.2.3
        10 September 2020 at 11:27 am

        Inferring you comment is about the church people in Mt Roskill. I don't know if they are poor, but your comment has me thinking and trying to see things from a different angle.

        Defend the poor's right to spread Covid-19?

        Defend the poor's right to religion?

        Defend the poor's right to be educated?

        Defend the poor's right to do whatever they like regardless of everyone else.

        Defend the poor's right to accept that while they are entitled to 'different views' so are others?

        • Ad 12.2.3.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:32 am

          Definitely defend their human rights.

          Which you can read about in our Bill of Rights Act.

          Definitely defend the right of the poor to be educated. Dialogue tends to work, even if it's more complex than enforcement.

          Defend the right of all of us to be free from disease.

          Defend the right of people to hold irrational views – definitely this is a free and open society the last time I looked.

          I'll just get you to imagine for a moment they were a group of anarchists, holding equally irrational views about state intervention.

          I'd defend them, as well as defending us, as well.

          • greywarshark 12.2.3.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:11 pm

            You are so noble Ad.

          • RedLogix 12.2.3.1.2
            10 September 2020 at 4:15 pm

            This is a good example of what I mean when I say 'give a person a bit of moral authority and it's instructive to see what they do with it'.

            Sure there is every reason to be angry and disappointed when this kind of misinformation and wrong-headed thinking puts everyone, and everything NZ has sacrificed so much for, at risk. It certainly feels like there is a bit of moral high ground over there just begging to be stood on. Fair enough.

            Now having gotten everyone's attention, what are you going to do with it? That's the question which reveals whether or not a person can be entrusted with real power.

  13. Tricledrown 13
    10 September 2020 at 11:03 am

    Fundamentalist religious cults breed ignorance to keep followers inline.Brian Tamaki,Bert Potter etc etc.Trump is feeding them to create division.

  14. Tricledrown 14
    10 September 2020 at 11:06 am

    Ad fundamentalist evangelicals vote right wing anti abortion, union, science,antivax ,state education etc.

  15. Whispering Kate 15
    10 September 2020 at 11:23 am

    It is unfortunate that Pacifica people are involved with this Evangelical Church. These fundamentalist churches attract people of all races, and all kinds of levels of our society. I know well educated white folk who are life long followers of the Pentecostal religion and they sure do have some whacky beliefs and once you are suckered in its a lifetime for some. Head shaking really but then we all have some funny ideas about things in life. Who are we to judge.

    This doesn't however give them carte blanche to ignore the Government's effort to tackle a serious public health situation. The police going in and "gently reminding them" of their responsibilities hopefully will defuse the situation. Their tendency within the church to look up to a dominant entity/leader may just be enough for them to heed the seriousness of the situation. The police saying if they transgress again "they may" be fined though wasn't enough. The police should have said they "would be" fined imo.

    • Muttonbird 15.1
      10 September 2020 at 5:39 pm

      One of the best comments on the thread, Kate.

      I’d one occasion to be close to a church like this kind of recently and there was a very broad range of ethnicities. The groom was white and the bride was Tongan. The minister made an explicit point that marriage was between a man and a woman. Edgy, but whatever. Ministers don't make these pointed comments by accident…

      The groupings were a fraught but healthy mix of both lively young and dour old Kiwis. They had fringe beliefs and that is fine. But in this environment they need to control and educate their looser units. They have not done that and Auckland is fed up. I can say this because I am one.

      If they can’t communicate, the government must. Neither happened this time and it has affected a million people plus.

      • Whispering Kate 15.1.1
        11 September 2020 at 10:50 am

        Thank you Muttonbird. No matter what your beliefs are nobody is above the law. Public Health safeguards are a serious matter for everybody. Why these fundamental churches/conspiracy theorists big so deep into the dark web I have no idea. They become so consumed that everything in the end is a conspiracy. I have a niece bless her heart who has such seriously out of whack beliefs that I just cannot comprehend it. Being cynical is one thing but the ludicrous conspiracies she believes in I cannot fathom.

        Hopefully the church elders and pastors will talk sense into their congregations. At least they are getting them all tested. Worrying times indeed.

        • Muttonbird 15.1.1.1
          11 September 2020 at 11:01 am

          It's not good news from Auckland though with Pacific health leaders pushing back against Police involvement.

          They claim their way is best. Well, they had their go and fucked it up. Time for some proper oversight.

  16. Andre 16
    10 September 2020 at 12:24 pm

    This may be better in Open Mike, but since the topic here is religious loons and covid …

    A prominent Ukrainian church leader who previously said the Covid-19 pandemic was "God's punishment" for same-sex marriage has tested positive for the virus.
    …

    The 91-year-old made headlines in March when he told a Ukrainian TV channel that the coronavirus crisis was "God's punishment for the sins of men, the sinfulness of humanity."

    "First of all, I mean same-sex marriage," he added.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/09/europe/ukrainian-leader-covid-same-sex-marriage-trnd/index.html

  17. karol121 17
    10 September 2020 at 1:52 pm

    "In the gull icon corner we had; Muttonbird weighing in, and in the primrose icon corner; Ad"

    And an interesting wrestle it was indeed. There were no holds barred.

    And well done to both champs!

    At a basic level though, reason might prevail in relation to any one individual's post life beliefs.

    I would hope that in a progressive society, the common ground would be that you can believe what you like, but if you then take such a belief (or concept) and attempt to weaponize it, you pretty much make a statement that your own imagination (or faith) has precedence over anyone else's in relation to their expression or position on such topics.

    Is this healthy?

    Taking this one step further, in relation to compliance during a crisis (such as when temporary emergency powers/measures are introduced-whether loved or hated), there would be many left with the impression that a blatant breaking of assembly restrictions by various, simply based on "faith", would be likened to such congregations asserting that their concept takes precedence over mandated restriction and requirement requirements because a preacher or pastor says that a god tells him or her that it’s OK.

    While I personally might congratulate certain groups of individuals engaging in non-compliant activities (such as) if or when they believe such measures are representative of deep rooted concerns culminating in episodic civil unrest, I get the impression that most New Zealanders probably balk when it comes to public health concerns relating to a pandemic being challenged by a congregation insisting that their beliefs and actions are more important than the (widely presumed) health of the public generally.

    Sure. "You gotta have faith" (in something), so how about having faith in common sense when it is seriously needed, and leave the religious concept actions to a time and a place where it is tolerated and supported in New Zealand.

    Personally, those who have faith in one concept or another, culminating in the ignoring emergency measures, please don’t stop expressing what you feel simply because you feel outnumbered in this regard, which you are. But please, in the meantime, comply with disliked, but reasonable enough, temporary legislation.

  19. gsays 19
    10 September 2020 at 4:16 pm

    Be miffed, disappointed, upset, angry even. But keep it to yourself.

    As the PM has said a few times, be kind. While it was in a different context, she also said "They are us". This applies to church folk and NZers returning to these shores who don't look like me/us.

    As has been pointed out already, if we ostracise or persecute folk, a'la the Americold/Tokoroa family, they will be driven away to where they can't be helped.

    • Shanreagh 19.1
      10 September 2020 at 4:35 pm

      Good points gsays and that was why I was heartened to read that the majority (213 of 332) of those in the church at Mt Roskill have been tested as at 8.00am today. Perhaps a mix of carrot, stick and information has done the trick. No matter what religion or race or culture these are OUR people. PI people have had a heap of denigration over the years, they are poor in many cases and we do not want to drive them away.

    • karol121 19.2
      10 September 2020 at 4:40 pm

      Well put, gsays and Shanreagh.

      Correct. If they get driven away or go underground, many will feel that they are in a physical world of their own as well, and will likely feel as if it is the rest of society as de facto non believers of their version of reality against them, both individually and collectively.

      Definitely a thumbs up from me and probably many others for your posts here.

    • mary_a 19.3
      10 September 2020 at 7:06 pm

      @ gsays (19) … well said.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • The ‘Humpty Dumpty’ end result of dismantling our environmental protections
    Policymakers rarely wish to make plain or visible their desire to dismantle environmental policy, least of all to the young. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above between Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    45 mins ago

  • Nicola's Salad Days.
    I like to keep an eye on what’s happening in places like the UK, the US, and over the ditch with our good mates the Aussies. Let’s call them AUKUS, for want of a better collective term. More on that in a bit.It used to be, not long ago, that ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 hour ago

  • Study sees climate change baking in 19% lower global income by 2050
    TL;DR: The global economy will be one fifth smaller than it would have otherwise been in 2050 as a result of climate damage, according to a new study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) and published in the journal Nature. (See more detail and analysis below, and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 hours ago

  • Weekly Roundup 19-April-2024
    It’s Friday again. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week on Greater Auckland On Tuesday Matt covered at the government looking into a long tunnel for Wellington. On Wednesday we ran a post from Oscar Simms on some lessons from Texas. AT’s ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    3 hours ago

  • Jack Vowles: Stop the panic – we’ve been here before
    New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’.  The data is from February this ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 hours ago

  • Clearing up confusion (or trying to)
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters is understood to be planning a major speech within the next fortnight to clear up the confusion over whether or not New Zealand might join the AUKUS submarine project. So far, there have been conflicting signals from the Government. RNZ reported the Prime Minister yesterday in ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 hours ago

  • How to Retrieve Deleted Call Log iPhone Without Computer
    How to Retrieve Deleted Call Log on iPhone Without a Computer: A Step–by–Step Guide Losing your iPhone call history can be frustrating, especially when you need to find a specific number or recall an important conversation. But before you panic, know that there are ways to retrieve deleted call logs on your iPhone, even without a computer. This guide will explore various methods, ranging from simple checks to utilizing iCloud backups and third–party applications. So, let‘s dive in and recover those lost calls! 1. Check Recently Deleted Folder: Apple understands that accidental deletions happen. That‘s why they introduced the “Recently Deleted“ folder for various apps, including the Phone app. This folder acts as a safety net, storing deleted call logs for up to 30 days before permanently erasing them. Here‘s how to check it: Open the Phone app on your iPhone. Tap on the “Recents“ tab at the bottom. Scroll to the top and tap on “Edit“. Select “Show Recently Deleted“. Browse the list to find the call logs you want to recover. Tap on the desired call log and choose “Recover“ to restore it to your call history. 2. Restore from iCloud Backup: If you regularly back up your iPhone to iCloud, you might be able to retrieve your deleted call log from a previous backup. However, keep in mind that this process will restore your entire phone to the state it was in at the time of the backup, potentially erasing any data added since then. Here‘s how to restore from an iCloud backup: Go to Settings > General > Reset. Choose “Erase All Content and Settings“. Follow the on–screen instructions. Your iPhone will restart and show the initial setup screen. Choose “Restore from iCloud Backup“ during the setup process. Select the relevant backup that contains your deleted call log. Wait for the restoration process to complete. 3. Explore Third–Party Apps (with Caution): ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    8 hours ago

  • How to Factory Reset iPhone without Computer: A Comprehensive Guide to Restoring your Device
    Life throws curveballs, and sometimes, those curveballs necessitate wiping your iPhone clean and starting anew. Whether you’re facing persistent software glitches, preparing to sell your device, or simply wanting a fresh start, knowing how to factory reset iPhone without a computer is a valuable skill. While using a computer with ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    14 hours ago

  • How to Call Someone on a Computer: A Guide to Voice and Video Communication in the Digital Age
    Gone are the days when communication was limited to landline phones and physical proximity. Today, computers have become powerful tools for connecting with people across the globe through voice and video calls. But with a plethora of applications and methods available, how to call someone on a computer might seem ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    15 hours ago

  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #16 2024
    Open access notables Glacial isostatic adjustment reduces past and future Arctic subsea permafrost, Creel et al., Nature Communications: Sea-level rise submerges terrestrial permafrost in the Arctic, turning it into subsea permafrost. Subsea permafrost underlies ~ 1.8 million km2 of Arctic continental shelf, with thicknesses in places exceeding 700 m. Sea-level variations over glacial-interglacial cycles control ...
    Skeptical Science
    15 hours ago

  • Where on a Computer is the Operating System Generally Stored? Delving into the Digital Home of your ...
    The operating system (OS) is the heart and soul of a computer, orchestrating every action and interaction between hardware and software. But have you ever wondered where on a computer is the operating system generally stored? The answer lies in the intricate dance between hardware and software components, particularly within ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    16 hours ago

  • How Many Watts Does a Laptop Use? Understanding Power Consumption and Efficiency
    Laptops have become essential tools for work, entertainment, and communication, offering portability and functionality. However, with rising energy costs and growing environmental concerns, understanding a laptop’s power consumption is more important than ever. So, how many watts does a laptop use? The answer, unfortunately, isn’t straightforward. It depends on several ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    16 hours ago

  • How to Screen Record on a Dell Laptop A Guide to Capturing Your Screen with Ease
    Screen recording has become an essential tool for various purposes, such as creating tutorials, capturing gameplay footage, recording online meetings, or sharing information with others. Fortunately, Dell laptops offer several built-in and external options for screen recording, catering to different needs and preferences. This guide will explore various methods on ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    16 hours ago

  • How Much Does it Cost to Fix a Laptop Screen? Navigating Repair Options and Costs
    A cracked or damaged laptop screen can be a frustrating experience, impacting productivity and enjoyment. Fortunately, laptop screen repair is a common service offered by various repair shops and technicians. However, the cost of fixing a laptop screen can vary significantly depending on several factors. This article delves into the ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    16 hours ago

  • How Long Do Gaming Laptops Last? Demystifying Lifespan and Maximizing Longevity
    Gaming laptops represent a significant investment for passionate gamers, offering portability and powerful performance for immersive gaming experiences. However, a common concern among potential buyers is their lifespan. Unlike desktop PCs, which allow for easier component upgrades, gaming laptops have inherent limitations due to their compact and integrated design. This ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    16 hours ago

  • Climate Change: Turning the tide
    The annual inventory report of New Zealand's greenhouse gas emissions has been released, showing that gross emissions have dropped for the third year in a row, to 78.4 million tons: All-told gross emissions have decreased by over 6 million tons since the Zero Carbon Act was passed in 2019. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    17 hours ago

  • How to Unlock Your Computer A Comprehensive Guide to Regaining Access
    Experiencing a locked computer can be frustrating, especially when you need access to your files and applications urgently. The methods to unlock your computer will vary depending on the specific situation and the type of lock you encounter. This guide will explore various scenarios and provide step-by-step instructions on how ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    18 hours ago

  • Faxing from Your Computer A Modern Guide to Sending Documents Digitally
    While the world has largely transitioned to digital communication, faxing still holds relevance in certain industries and situations. Fortunately, gone are the days of bulky fax machines and dedicated phone lines. Today, you can easily send and receive faxes directly from your computer, offering a convenient and efficient way to ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    18 hours ago

  • Protecting Your Home Computer A Guide to Cyber Awareness
    In our increasingly digital world, home computers have become essential tools for work, communication, entertainment, and more. However, this increased reliance on technology also exposes us to various cyber threats. Understanding these threats and taking proactive steps to protect your home computer is crucial for safeguarding your personal information, finances, ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    18 hours ago

  • Server-Based Computing Powering the Modern Digital Landscape
    In the ever-evolving world of technology, server-based computing has emerged as a cornerstone of modern digital infrastructure. This article delves into the concept of server-based computing, exploring its various forms, benefits, challenges, and its impact on the way we work and interact with technology. Understanding Server-Based Computing: At its core, ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    18 hours ago

  • Vroom vroom go the big red trucks
    The absolute brass neck of this guy.We want more medical doctors, not more spin doctors, Luxon was saying a couple of weeks ago, and now we’re told the guy has seven salaried adults on TikTok duty. Sorry, doing social media. The absolute brass neck of it. The irony that the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    18 hours ago

  • Jones finds $410,000 to help the government muscle in on a spat project
    Buzz from the Beehive Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones relishes spatting and eagerly takes issue with environmentalists who criticise his enthusiasm for resource development. He relishes helping the fishing industry too. And so today, while the media are making much of the latest culling in the public service to ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    19 hours ago

  • Again, hate crimes are not necessarily terrorism.
    Having written, taught and worked for the US government on issues involving unconventional warfare and terrorism for 30-odd years, two things irritate me the most when the subject is discussed in public. The first is the Johnny-come-lately academics-turned-media commentators who … Continue reading → ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    22 hours ago

  • Despair – construction consenting edition
    Eric Crampton writes – Kainga Ora is the government’s house building agency. It’s been building a lot of social housing. Kainga Ora has its own (but independent) consenting authority, Consentium. It’s a neat idea. Rather than have to deal with building consents across each different territorial authority, Kainga Ora ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    22 hours ago

  • Coalition promises – will the Govt keep the commitment to keep Kiwis equal before the law?
    Muriel Newman writes – The Coalition Government says it is moving with speed to deliver campaign promises and reverse the damage done by Labour. One of their key commitments is to “defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law.” To achieve this, they have pledged they “will not advance ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    22 hours ago

  • An impermanent public service is a guarantee of very little else but failure
    Chris Trotter writes –  The absence of anything resembling a fightback from the public servants currently losing their jobs is interesting. State-sector workers’ collective fatalism in the face of Coalition cutbacks indicates a surprisingly broad acceptance of impermanence in the workplace. Fifty years ago, lay-offs in the thousands ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    24 hours ago

  • What happens after the war – Mariupol
    Mariupol, on the Azov Sea coast, was one of the first cities to suffer almost complete destruction after the start of the Ukraine War started in late February 2022. We remember the scenes of absolute destruction of the houses and city structures. The deaths of innocent civilians – many of ...
    Open ParachuteBy Ken
    1 day ago

  • Babies and benefits – no good news
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – Ten years ago, I wrote the following in a Listener column: Every year around one in five new-born babies will be reliant on their caregivers benefit by Christmas. This pattern has persisted from at least 1993. For Maori the number jumps to over one in three.  ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago

  • Should the RBNZ be looking through climate inflation?
    Climate change is expected to generate more and more extreme events, delivering a sort of structural shock to inflation that central banks will have to react to as if they were short-term cyclical issues. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago

  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix of the news links
    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours, as of 9:16 am on Thursday, April 18 are:Housing: Tauranga residents living in boats, vans RNZ Checkpoint Louise TernouthHousing: Waikato councillor says wastewater plant issues could hold up Sleepyhead building a massive company town Waikato Times Stephen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago

  • Gordon Campbell on the public sector carnage, and misogyny as terrorism
    It’s a simple deal. We pay taxes in order to finance the social services we want and need. The carnage now occurring across the public sector though, is breaking that contract. Over 3,000 jobs have been lost so far. Many are in crucial areas like Education where the impact of ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    1 day ago

  • Meeting the Master Baiters
    Hi,A friend had their 40th over the weekend and decided to theme it after Curb Your Enthusiasm fashion icon Susie Greene. Captured in my tiny kitchen before I left the house, I ending up evoking a mix of old lesbian and Hillary Clinton — both unintentional.Me vs Hillary ClintonIf you’re ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 day ago

  • How extreme was the Earth's temperature in 2023
    This is a re-post from Andrew Dessler at the Climate Brink blog In 2023, the Earth reached temperature levels unprecedented in modern times. Given that, it’s reasonable to ask: What’s going on? There’s been lots of discussions by scientists about whether this is just the normal progression of global warming or if something ...
    Skeptical Science
    1 day ago

  • Backbone, revisited
    The schools are on holiday and the sun is shining in the seaside village and all day long I have been seeing bunches of bikes; Mums, Dads, teens and toddlers chattering, laughing, happy, having a bloody great time together. Cheers, AT, for the bits of lane you’ve added lately around the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago

  • Ministers are not above the law
    Today in our National-led authoritarian nightmare: Shane Jones thinks Ministers should be above the law: New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of over-stepping its mandate by subpoenaing a minister for its urgent hearing on the Oranga Tamariki claim. The tribunal is looking into the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago

  • What’s the outfit you can hear going down the gurgler? Probably it’s David Parker’s Oceans Sec...
    Buzz from the Beehive Point  of Order first heard of the Oceans Secretariat in June 2021, when David Parker (remember him?) announced a multi-agency approach to protecting New Zealand’s marine ecosystems and fisheries. Parker (holding the Environment, and Oceans and Fisheries portfolios) broke the news at the annual Forest & ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago

  • Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Bryce Edwards writes  – Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • Matt Doocey doubles down on trans “healthcare”
    Citizen Science writes –  Last week saw two significant developments in the debate over the treatment of trans-identifying children and young people – the release in Britain of the final report of Dr Hilary Cass’s review into gender healthcare, and here in New Zealand, the news that the ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • A TikTok Prime Minister.
    One night while sleeping in my bed I had a beautiful dreamThat all the people of the world got together on the same wavelengthAnd began helping one anotherNow in this dream, universal love was the theme of the dayPeace and understanding and it happened this wayAfter such an eventful day ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago

  • Texas Lessons
    This is a guest post by Oscar Simms who is a housing activist, volunteer for the Coalition for More Homes, and was the Labour Party candidate for Auckland Central at the last election. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    2 days ago

  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix of the news links at 6:06 am
    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours as of 6:06 am on Wednesday, April 17 are:Must read: Secrecy shrouds which projects might be fast-tracked RNZ Farah HancockScoop: Revealed: Luxon has seven staffers working on social media content - partly paid for by taxpayer Newshub ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago

  • Fighting poverty on the holiday highway
    Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago

  • Bernard's six-stack of substacks at 6:26 pm
    Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • At a glance – Is the science settled?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago

  • Apposite Quotations.
    How Long Is Long Enough? Gaza under Israeli bombardment, July 2014. This posting is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    Bowalley Road
    3 days ago

  • What’s a life worth now?
    You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago

  • Howling at the Moon
    Karl du Fresne writes –  There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • Newshub is Dead.
    I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • Seymour is chuffed about cutting early-learning red tape – but we hear, too, that Jones has loose...
    Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago

  • Was Hawkesby entirely wrong?
    David Farrar  writes –  The Broadcasting Standards Authority ruled: Comments by radio host Kate Hawkesby suggesting Māori and Pacific patients were being prioritised for surgery due to their ethnicity were misleading and discriminatory, the Broadcasting Standards Authority has found. It is a fact such patients are prioritised. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • PRC shadow looms as the Solomons head for election
    PRC and its proxies in Solomons have been preparing for these elections for a long time. A lot of money, effort and intelligence have gone into ensuring an outcome that won’t compromise Beijing’s plans. Cleo Paskall writes – On April 17th the Solomon Islands, a country of ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • Climate Change: Criminal ecocide
    We are in the middle of a climate crisis. Last year was (again) the hottest year on record. NOAA has just announced another global coral bleaching event. Floods are threatening UK food security. So naturally, Shane Jones wants to make it easier to mine coal: Resources Minister Shane Jones ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago

  • Is saving one minute of a politician's time worth nearly $1 billion?
    Is speeding up the trip to and from Wellington airport by 12 minutes worth spending up more than $10 billion? Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me in the last day to 8:26 am today are:The Lead: Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Long Tunnel or Long Con?
    Yesterday it was revealed that Transport Minister had asked Waka Kotahi to look at the options for a long tunnel through Wellington. State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    3 days ago

  • Smoke And Mirrors.
    You're a fraud, and you know itBut it's too good to throw it all awayAnyone would do the sameYou've got 'em goingAnd you're careful not to show itSometimes you even fool yourself a bitIt's like magicBut it's always been a smoke and mirrors gameAnyone would do the sameForty six billion ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • What is Mexico doing about climate change?
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The June general election in Mexico could mark a turning point in ensuring that the country’s climate policies better reflect the desire of its citizens to address the climate crisis, with both leading presidential candidates expressing support for renewable energy. Mexico is the ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago

  • State of humanity, 2024
    2024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?When I say 2024 I really mean the state of humanity in 2024.Saturday night, we watched Civil War because that is one terrifying cliff we've ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • Govt’s Wellington tunnel vision aims to ease the way to the airport (but zealous promoters of cycl...
    Buzz from the Beehive A pet project and governmental tunnel vision jump out from the latest batch of ministerial announcements. The government is keen to assure us of its concern for the wellbeing of our pets. It will be introducing pet bonds in a change to the Residential Tenancies Act ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • The case for cultural connectedness
    A recent report generated from a Growing Up in New Zealand (GUiNZ) survey of 1,224 rangatahi Māori aged 11-12 found: Cultural connectedness was associated with fewer depression symptoms, anxiety symptoms and better quality of life. That sounds cut and dry. But further into the report the following appears: Cultural connectedness is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Useful context on public sector job cuts
    David Farrar writes –    The Herald reports: From the gory details of job-cuts news, you’d think the public service was being eviscerated.   While the media’s view of the cuts is incomplete, it’s also true that departments have been leaking the particulars faster than a Wellington ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell On When Racism Comes Disguised As Anti-racism
    Remember the good old days, back when New Zealand had a PM who could think and speak calmly and intelligently in whole sentences without blustering? Even while Iran’s drones and missiles were still being launched, Helen Clark was live on TVNZ expertly summing up the latest crisis in the Middle ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    4 days ago

  • Govt ignored economic analysis of smokefree reversal
    Costello did not pass on analysis of the benefits of the smokefree reforms to Cabinet, emphasising instead the extra tax revenues of repealing them. Photo: Hagen Hopkins, Getty Images TL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me at 7:26 am today are:The Lead: Casey Costello never passed on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago

  • True Blue.
    True loveYou're the one I'm dreaming ofYour heart fits me like a gloveAnd I'm gonna be true blueBaby, I love youI’ve written about the job cuts in our news media last week. The impact on individuals, and the loss to Aotearoa of voices covering our news from different angles.That by ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • Who is running New Zealand’s foreign policy?
    While commentators, including former Prime Minister Helen Clark, are noting a subtle shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy, which now places more emphasis on the United States, many have missed a key element of the shift. What National said before the election is not what the government is doing now. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago

  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #15
    A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 7, 2024 thru Sat, April 13, 2024. Story of the week Our story of the week is about adults in the room setting terms and conditions of ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Feline Friends and Fragile Fauna The Complexities of Cats in New Zealand’s Conservation Efforts

    Cats, with their independent spirit and beguiling purrs, have captured the hearts of humans for millennia. In New Zealand, felines are no exception, boasting the highest national cat ownership rate globally [definition cat nz cat foundation]. An estimated 1.134 million pet cats grace Kiwi households, compared to 683,000 dogs ...

    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    5 days ago

  • Or is that just they want us to think?
    Nice guy, that Peter Williams. Amiable, a calm air of no-nonsense capability, a winning smile. Everything you look for in a TV presenter and newsreader.I used to see him sometimes when I went to TVNZ to be a talking head or a panellist and we would yarn. Nice guy, that ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Fact Brief – Did global warming stop in 1998?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Did global warming stop in ...
    Skeptical Science
    6 days ago

  • Arguing over a moot point.
    I have been following recent debates in the corporate and social media about whether it is a good idea for NZ to join what is known as “AUKUS Pillar Two.” AUKUS is the Australian-UK-US nuclear submarine building agreement in which … Continue reading → ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago

  • No Longer Trusted: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    Turning Point: “What has turned me away from the mainstream news media is the very strong message that its been sending out for the last few years.” “And what message might that be?” “That the people who own it, the people who run it, and the people who provide its content, really don’t ...
    Bowalley Road
    6 days ago

  • Mortgage rates at 10% anyone?
    No – nothing about that in PM Luxon’s nine-point plan to improve the lives of New Zealanders. But beyond our shores Jamie Dimon, the long-serving head of global bank J.P. Morgan Chase, reckons that the chances of a goldilocks soft landing for the economy are “a lot lower” than the ...
    Point of OrderBy xtrdnry
    6 days ago

  • Sad tales from the left
    Michael Bassett writes –  Have you noticed the odd way in which the media are handling the government’s crackdown on surplus employees in the Public Service? Very few reporters mention the crazy way in which State Service numbers rocketed ahead by more than 16,000 during Labour’s six years, ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • In Whose Best Interests?
    On The Spot: The question Q+A host, Jack Tame, put to the Workplace & Safety Minister, Act’s Brooke van Velden, was disarmingly simple: “Are income tax cuts right now in the best interests of lowering inflation?”JACK TAME has tested another MP on his Sunday morning current affairs show, Q+A. Minister for Workplace ...
    Bowalley Road
    6 days ago

  • Don’t Question, Don’t Complain.
    It has to start somewhereIt has to start sometimeWhat better place than here?What better time than now?So it turns out that I owe you all an apology.It seems that all of the terrible things this government is doing, impacting the lives of many, aren’t necessarily ‘bad’ per se. Those things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago

  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 hour ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government redress for Te Korowai o Wainuiārua
    The Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore its relationship with iwi as the Te Korowai o Wainuiārua Claims Settlement Bill passed its first reading in Parliament today, says Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith. “Historical grievances of Te Korowai o Wainuiārua relate to 19th century warfare, land purchased or taken ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Focus on outstanding minerals permit applications
    New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals is working to resolve almost 150 outstanding minerals permit applications by the end of the financial year, enabling valuable mining activity and signalling to the sector that New Zealand is open for business, Resources Minister Shane Jones says.  “While there are no set timeframes for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Applications open for NZ-Ireland Research Call
    The New Zealand and Irish governments have today announced that applications for the 2024 New Zealand-Ireland Joint Research Call on Agriculture and Climate Change are now open. This is the third research call in the three-year Joint Research Initiative pilot launched in 2022 by the Ministry for Primary Industries and Ireland’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market
    The coalition Government has today announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to encourage landlords back to the rental property market, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The previous Government waged a war on landlords. Many landlords told us this caused them to exit the rental market altogether. It caused worse ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Boosting NZ’s trade and agricultural relationship with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay will visit China next week, to strengthen relationships, support Kiwi exporters and promote New Zealand businesses on the world stage. “China is one of New Zealand’s most significant trade and economic relationships and remains an important destination for New Zealand’s products, accounting for nearly 22 per cent of our good and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Freshwater farm plan systems to be improved
    The coalition Government intends to improve freshwater farm plans so that they are more cost-effective and practical for farmers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay have announced. “A fit-for-purpose freshwater farm plan system will enable farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-04-18T22:49:13+00:00