“Creating quagmires” – US policy in Syria

Written By: - Date published: 8:33 am, September 5th, 2018 - 82 comments
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In June this year I went to a lecture at LSE by Gilles Keppel. professor at the Ecole Superieure in Paris, titled “The Middle East after Isis – what comes next.” He didn’t get near the answer till the question session at the end, one of which I asked, specifically about what was France’s reason for the bombing attack on Syria on May 4th. He didn’t want to go into detail about the supposed (in my opinion false flag) use of chlorine in Gouta, but did say that it was to give a signal that France, the UK and the US intended to stay involved to make sure that the Russians, Turks and Syrians didn’t get to resolve the remaining issues around the terrorist enclave in Idlib.

Further confirmation about what was really intended came in the Washington Post last week, quoting an unnamed official saying:

“Right now, our job is to help create quagmires [for Russia and the Syrian regime] until we get what we want,” says one administration official, explaining the effort to resist an Idlib onslaught.

A good overall assessment of the background is provided in this post by Bernhard at Moonofalabama. He summarises it thus:

The new U.S. aim in Syria is to hinder all potential progress in the reestablishing of government control as well as to obstruct any repair of the damage its war on Syria caused.

The official’s statement clarifies what many than thought was the aim of US policy for many years, in supporting “regime change”, proxy terrorism, colour revolutions  and endless wars throughout the middle East and elsewhere. The overall objective is to enable US corporations to profit from military spending and also ensure in Trump’s words “energy dominance” for the US corporates.

Things are due to come to a head on September 7th in Ankara when Russia, Turkey and Syria are scheduled to meet to discuss the terrorist occupation of Idlib in northwest Syria adjacent to the Turkish border. the various terrorist groups have concentrated there after the Syrian government’s victories over them in the south of the country.

Two weeks ago Sergey Lavrov the Russian foreign minister warned that another false flag chemical weapons excuse was being planned by the terrorists in Idlib. US neocon John Bolton was quick to warn that any such attack would be met with greater force that the May attack. French and UK governments also made the same threat.

The May attack was unusual in many respects. Supposedly to destroy Syria’s chemical weapons capability and supposedly 100% successful, that proved to be nowhere near the real story. With over 60% of cruise missiles launched shot down, with misfires from the French and the British, and with the only verified result the complete destruction of a possibly empty building with others around it untouched, as a warning it lacked a certain something. This may have been because the Russians had warned the various parties that if any missiles targeted Russian personnel or assets they would  be shot down. Russian anti-air capability is widely held to be far in advance of the West, so the Russians were avoided.

This time the Russians have issued their warning before another false flag “chemical” attack, providing the US with specific evidence.

I have to say that the Russian spokesmen I have watched, from Putin on down,  are far more impressive than their western countrparts. This performance from UK Ambassador to the UN Karen Pierce, as reported by Australian blogger Caitlin Johnstone, beggars belief. The Russians can’t be believed because they are Russians.

However the Russians are not that stupid. They have also significantly beefed up their military presence in Syria and the eastern Mediterranean, possibly in anticipation of the next attempt by the US and its allies, UK and France, this time to try to swamp Syrian and Russian air defences.

The situation is extremely serious. Donald Trump has waded in with his own warning, indicating that he is under neocon control. We could be on the brink of the most serious shooting war since Korea, with unintended consequences galore. US defense strategy has shifted officially from the war on terrorism to war between the major powers, specifically identifying Russia, China and Iran as the opponents.

The situation has changed since the US created quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, in which they are still mired. The Russians have seen them coming, and have issued fair warning. Lets hope this time the US and its few allies pull back instead of doubling down. A great deal is at stake.

82 comments on ““Creating quagmires” – US policy in Syria”

  1. Wayne 1

    You have zero proof that the May bombing was a false flag op. Everything I have read from a wide variety of sources pointed indisputably to the Assad government. Also zero evidence that 60% of cruise missiles were shot down by Syrian air defence. It simply is not that capable. At best it was two or three.
    As for Idlib a negotiated settlement is the only sensible way forward, or else it will be like Aleppo, except worse. That is why the US is warning Syria off. And Trump in these sorts of issues is much more serious that Obama.
    As for Korea, well that war is effectively over. Don’t let your hatred for Trump blind you to that.

    • Bill 1.1

      What May bombing? There is some concrete evidence of a bombing in May?

      Only thing I saw was a lengthy report related to traces of stuff that could have come from any number of sources including every day items. But you’ve read stuff. ffs.

      And Idlib will be like Aleppo, only much worse you say. You mean like Mosul?

      Y’know, given that the Syrian government has negotiated the safe passage of Jihadists from every occupied town and city across Syria, I can’t see them being averse to a negotiation. The question might be whether various foreign Jihadists and odious drop-kicks in Idlib have the option of negotiating their own exit, or whether they really don’t have anywhere to go and so reckon they might as well be done with their miserable existences in some glorious “last stand”… or at the end of some shit stained pants scampering.

    • D'Esterre 1.2

      Wayne: “Everything I have read from a wide variety of sources pointed indisputably to the Assad government.”

      Have you got citations to that effect? I ask, because I’ve seen nothing to confirm that.

      “As for Idlib a negotiated settlement is the only sensible way forward, or else it will be like Aleppo, except worse.”

      I wonder if you’ve been paying attention to what the Syrian government and its allies have been doing, with regard to negotiating safe passage for terrorists from areas which the SAA has retaken. Idlib is where said terrorists are now encamped. I’m guessing that the citizens there would like their province back, thanks.

      Aleppo; as Bill has pointed out, go look at Mosul, what happened there, and what state that city is in now.

      • Ed 1.2.1

        Wayne’s side variety of sources…..

        The New York Times
        The Guardian….

        • Wayne


          A roll call of highly reputable news organisations.

          Whereas RT?

          • Muttonbird

            No use attacking Ed. You said you read a wide range of sources and they all said Assad did it.

            Turns out you read a narrow range of sources and they all said Assad did it.

            You might want to withdraw and apologise to the forum.

    • Ed 1.3

      You are a warmonger for neoliberal capitalism.
      What a disgrace.

    • reason 1.4

      Isis have used gas dozens of times in Iraq and Syria …. not that the dishonest old war dog Wayne mapp would ever tell you that ….

      Actually the greedy racist warmongering mapp sticks his oar in and has been for New zealand getting involved in illegal invasions and wars …. for trade deals and stuff.

      It all shows up his crocidile concern for the little three year old girl killed, along with other children and civilians killed …..

      When one of Waynes wars crashed into their bodies with high explosives and hot chunks of metal.

      Consider Wayne Mapps behavior and that of a boy racer driving around the suburbs at 140kms in the wet on three bald tyers ….. the difference in the inevitable crash is the boy racer was most likely to kill himself …. Wayne Mapp was never in danger when helped drive the events …. that ended up killing multiple children.

      He has exposed his own psychopathy towards children here at The Standard….. responding to a post I’d made about the 500,000 kids killed in the sanctions of mass destruction that Iraq was under until they got invaded……

      …. He ignored the dead children and jumped on the pro-war bandwagon ….over a throwaway remark I’d made at the end of my post.

      Mapp you see, is all for the war against Syria … and bugger the dead or wounded children.

  2. SPC 2

    The problems for the Turks

    1. if it grants the surviving rebels (it would not want too many) in Idlib refuge in Turkey, would Syria declare them a terrorist group if Turkey does not disarm them?
    2. once Idlib falls its little regime in Afrin will come into question – if Syria asked the UNSC to condemn the Turkish occupation there and call for a withdrawl, who would veto it?

    American options

    1. lament the loss of civilian life in Idlib (but not that of al Qaeda in Syria).
    2. support the withdrawal of Turkish troops from Afrin
    3. support regional autonomy for Syrian Kurds and their command of any gun in this province (disarming any others, such as Arab Syrians who who have refuge there ).

    • Bill 2.1

      In relation to your last point – the peoples of Rojava include Arabs. It’s not a “Kurdish Project”. Another point about Rojava is that it does not threaten the geographical integrity of the Syrian state.

      There is a meeting of Iran, Russia and Turkey in a few days time in Tehran.

      Meanwhile, I can’t help but notice the reports in western media that come from supposed “civilian journalists” (read: terrorists, white helmets and Jihadists) has all but dried up.

      Perhaps that will kick back in, although with the White Helmets having been evacuated, I dare say the media networks/infrastructure that had been built to channel “news” back to western outlets may no longer exist.

      • SPC 2.1.1

        My point being the autonomous region would have one (official) command of the gun, and any refugees from other areas would have to be unarmed (including Turkish Kurds).

      • mauī 2.1.2

        Yes there has been a real lack of emotionally manipulating propaganda videos in the news lately involving upset small children or heroic badged rescue workers.

        I’m sure if you hate Assad (like let’s face it, most westerners do because they are told to) this is because he has got his oppressive grip back on the country and has banned any respectable news agency from reporting… like CNN or ABC.. *cough.. cough**.

        Yes maybe just a coincidence that as the terrorists ebb away so does the western troll farm 🙂

    • Ad 2.2

      The US will withdraw to Jordan, Israel and Saudi Arabia to protect from any further decrease in its sphere of influence. Withdrawal is not a choice.

      I see US withdrawing its base from Qatar in short order since Qatar is gearing up for proper partnership with Iran. That is where is military and intelligence assets are based.

      • Stuart Munro 2.2.1

        If they do, the smaller states are likely to flip. Locally the big game of influence is between Saudi and Iran. Any significant change in presence will be reflected around the region.

      • corodale 2.2.2

        Yes, the Central Bank partnership between Turkey and Qatar backs your statement. The US bases there are too vulnerable.

  3. Ad 3

    I am more hopeful about the start of peace in Syria. Russia, Iran, and Turkey are in for a decade of working closely with the Assad dynasty to re-form government after this collapse of most civil institutions. Nationbuilding on this scale will also be a measure of the statecraft maturity of Russia, Iran and Turkey to work around NATO, around UN sanctions against Russia, Iran, and around the terrorist cesspools within Saudi Arabia. It’s the best time to do that, and they can all see it. Turkey is rapidly breaking and forming new alliances.

    But the prize of influence for Russia and Iran is Saudi Arabia. Syria is a start, not a finish. The Saud family are vulnerable now that the 5% float of Aramco has been abandoned. Their absolutism has usually depended on oil rents and the lower taxation from low oil prices. Russia has a good chance of working with Syria and Iran to make Saudi Arabia slightly more neutral vis a vis US, and more amenable to broader development partners. After Syria, it’s also the country most at play.

    • Bill 3.1

      Chinese money will flood into Syria. (There sure as shit won’t be any US or European contracts being handed out – or so I would think)

      Also, China has established a futures market in Shanghai trading in the yuan. Apparently, this may have been done to circumvent US sanctions on Iran and its oil.

      Juan Cole’s piece on it.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

        Dollars as a hard currency are more flexible and could be used to buy or sell anything from anyone.

        The US$ hasn’t been a ‘hard’ currency since Nixon dropped the Gold Standard and floated it. A floating currency is, by definition, a ‘soft’ currency.

        There have been a lot of conspiracy theories that the US government will go to war to prevent erosion of the dollar as the world reserve currency, especially against any moves to buy oil in a currency other than dollars. It has been alleged that this consideration was one reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

        If/when the US$ is no longer the Reserve Currency the rest of the world will have very little reason to buy US$ as the US produces very little – it is no longer the production engine of the world as it was after WWII. This is what terrifies the US as when that happens the US will no longer be able to import so much of the worlds resources. Their entire economy will collapse and their Living Standard, which is already dropping, will collapse and that is likely to produce an actual revolution. I wouldn’t be surprised to see secession by many states.

      • Ad 3.1.2

        I can’t see a motive for playing Chinese comprador from Russia or Turkey.

        Russia, Turkey and Iran have already invested so much in closing Syria as a “sale” into their realm of influence. They will install their own commercial players into this.

        • Bill

          Not so much a “motive”, more an acknowledged lack of capacity is where I’m coming from.

        • corodale

          China will be welcomed in financially, certainly in Palestine, to show the strength of the BRICS Plus as the new status quo. Logically, the Indians will be invited into Yemen. The German regime is scrambling to get an international banking exchange that includes Iran, functioning on Euros, before November, negotiating to keep the new paradigm multi-polar.

    • SPC 3.2

      Turkey sure is forming, then breaking and forming new alliances – having backed an overthrow of the Damascus regime, but when witnessing Russia having the greater resolve to be present on the ground than the Americans managing a retreat.

      It has been using the refugee tap to manage the EU, but now it needs to work with Syria to enable the refugees in the camps in Turkey to return home.

      A big issue will be development of the Qatar/Iran gas field and pipelines and how Iran meets its energy needs (will it resort to nuclear power plants).

      • Ad 3.2.1

        QatarGas looks like a diplomatic force all by itself – sure more effective with Iran than anyone else.

        2022 Football Cup is going to be a lovely stage for all of these new alliances to do interpretive dance. Or Stage Challenge. Maybe it’s Rapper’s Delight.

  4. Draco T Bastard 4

    Lets hope this time the US and its few allies pull back instead of doubling down.

    Western capitalism needs the resources of the rest of the world to keep going and so the Western powers will double down on their attempts to steal those resources.

  5. Stuart Munro 5

    ” the Russians have issued their warning before another false flag “chemical” attack”

    If the Russians actually had such secret information they would not release it because it would compromise their sources or capabilities. Inventing it for PR follows an opposite approach – by disseminating the lie as widely as possible they manufacture consent for their use of chemical weapons.

    If you swallow Lavrov and MoonofAlhambra uncritically you get to cheer when the Russians gas civilians. Yippee!

    • D'Esterre 5.1

      Stuart Munro: “If the Russians actually had such secret information they would not release it because it would compromise their sources or capabilities. Inventing it for PR follows an opposite approach – by disseminating the lie as widely as possible they manufacture consent for their use of chemical weapons.”

      You have evidence for this? Absent evidence, it looks like more speculation, based on something like, “This is what the US/terrorists would do; ergo, it’s what the Russians are doing.”


      Heh! Freudian slip over the spelling there.

      • Stuart Munro 5.1.1

        I have as much evidence as the Russians do D’Esterre – None whatsoever.

        You have not seen nor received details of this “false flag attack” – but you are quite prepared to take it on trust.

        The Syrian populace just get to take it – Russian or US or local bombs – all the same when you’re under them.

        Wasn’t a slip of course.

    • Bill 5.2

      If the Russians had any such secret information, then no-one would know because “secret”. But what would the point be of such information being kept secret? (I’m coming up blank.)

      If, on the other hand, they suspect such a thing, then given the history of very dodgy bullshit from “the west” in response to awfully convenient and, on the face of it, terribly stupid chemical attacks that have never yet stood up to full scrutiny…

      And if it is now a case that “western actors” know that Russia knows, but don’t quite know the extent of what Russia knows, then that’s a deterrent that may bear fruit.

      Didn’t Russia “call it” on the Douma “incident” that led to air strikes? And isn’t it the case that no evidence of a chemical attack has been produced in spite of on the ground inspections and however many material samples and blood samples?

      But covering whatever permutations off and settling it. Duplicitous bastards as all Russians may be genetically disposed to be, “our” great and good….well, they’re great and good, innit?

      • Stuart Munro 5.2.1

        “awfully convenient and, on the face of it, terribly stupid chemical attacks”

        Bellicose foreign policy is rarely characterized by its intelligence – whether it be US or Russian in origin.

        The false flag claim has become Russia’s go to instrument for avoiding critique – it’s not particularly clever, but it doesn’t suffer from the kinds of inconvenient debunking that more detailed claims like the MH17 fictions are subject to.

        “No-one would be stupid enough to do x” has historically proven not to be a particularly solid basis on which to rest any claim.

        As for ‘our’ great and good – the habit of not murdering journalists has made our great and good slightly less inclined to normalize mischief than the kleptocrats of Putin’s dystopia. The Nixon impeachment for example could never happen to Putin – the abuse of security powers has been normalized under his regime.

        Russian duplicity is cultural. The espiocracy that descended from the Okhrana is an institutional, not a genetic legacy. It is nevertheless very real, and journalists and dissenters in Russia risk their lives exposing the glib lies you so cheerfully recycle.

        • Bill

          Bellicose foreign policy is rarely…

          So, shit. Correct me I’m wrong, but the suggestion here is that the Syrian government (the alleged users of chemical weapons) was following some stupid bellicose foreign policy….within the internationally recognised borders of Syria!?

          That’s got to be a first.

          Murdered journalists – uh-huh. Been to Mexico of late? What about Malta?

          Any time you want to point to any “glib lies” I “cheerfully recycle” about Russia that dissenters and journalists within Russia would be killed for exposing, well…I’m all ears.

  6. McFlock 6

    I’ll try to avoid getting into the team Russia vs team West argument.

    What I will say is that most foreign policy objectives of most states (but especially the US) are essentially multi-sectoral compromises. You get enough different sectors buying in (defense lobbyists see sales, energy wonks see supply chain consolidation, terrorphobes see their enemies defeated, Great Game players see expanding spheres of influence, etc etc etc) and war is inevitable.

    Quagmires directly involving the participating nation are almost always plan B. The objective with the most support is quick victory and loot the territory. Quagmires for the state making the decision have arms industry support, but most other people are simply taking consolation prizes in their areas, if that (strong finance wonks hate quagmires, but love quick victories).

    “Wearing down the russians” is just another consolation prize aimed at Great Game players in order to justify the sunk costs already paid.

    The yanks have failed again because they can’t empire for shit.

    • D'Esterre 6.1

      McFlock: “The yanks have failed again because they can’t empire for shit.”

      Yup. Nailed it.

      • Bill 6.1.1

        But, but,,,McDonalds!

        • Ed


          • McFlock

            ISTR most of them are Irish or Dutch 😉

            Brands are cool. People to this day are called variants of “Alexander” all across Europe and central Asia.

            But he couldn’t empire for shit, either.

            China’s looking pretty long term, though. Huge land purchases and 00s of km of good roads in Africa long before leasing their first dual-use facility.

  7. Jenny 7

    A good overall assessment of the background is provided in this post by Bernhard at Moonofalabama. He summarises it thus:

    “The new U.S. aim in Syria is to hinder all potential progress in the reestablishing of government control as well as to obstruct any repair of the damage its war on Syria caused.”

    Mike Smith

    Hi Mike, according to Lois Proyect at ‘The Unrepentant Marxist’, you shouldn’t rely too much on what whacko Assadist websites have to say.

    Lois Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

    It’s very rare nowadays to find Jew-baiting on nominally leftwing forums but that’s exactly what I ran into during a brief time commenting at Moon of Alabama, an “anti-imperialist” website that like Global Research and Voltairenet can be relied upon to defend the Syrian dictatorship to the hilt…..

    ……Meanwhile, when I posted a comment there on December 17th calling attention to a Tea Party delegation visiting Lebanon at the behest of Mother Agnes, it was removed unceremoniously. One wonders how secure these “anti-imperialists” are in their politics when a single message out of 80 that goes against the grain cannot be tolerated……

    …..Just to make sure that people understand where I am coming from, I don’t use the term anti-Semitism since that has become so inextricably linked with mass movements of the 1930s that presented a mortal threat to Jews. The only people today in that kind of danger are Muslims, especially those whose rights are being abrogated in the name of fighting “jihadists”. This, to be sure, is one of the primary goals of Moon of Alabama—to demonize Muslims after the fashion of Christopher Hitchens, Michael Ignatieff and Paul Berman. Using the same inflamed rhetoric about “Wahhabists” and “Salafists”, the regulars at Moon of Alabama would have been invited to the Bush White House back in 2003 if the sole criterion were Islamophobia. For example, Gerhard is capable of saying things like “Why is the U.S. so much interested in creating a Sharia law state in Syria?” This moron is apparently more perturbed about Sharia law than he ever was about MIG’s firing rockets into tenement buildings in Homs or Aleppo.

    Fortunately for me I don’t have to rely on just what I read on the internet. Having been in Syria and seeing this fascist style regime close up.

    • reason 7.1

      You weren’t in the ‘Real Rebel’ held areas Jenny …. forced marriage or death to the infidel for you otherwise ….

      Jenny regarding Syria … volume / output wise … is more of a warmongering tub thumper than Wayne mapp…. and that’s saying something .

      She’s used every bit of propaganda the pro war mob have churned out …. If you’ve had a Lobotomy or otherwise have a cauterized memory …. then some of what she ways could be credible.

      … for those who have not had lobotomies The Revolutionary Distemper in Syria That Wasn’t _ what’s left

      Otherwise most of the war bot non-sense she writes is contradicted by pedigree journalists,reporters and other impartial observers.

      I think Jenny considers most Syrians Assadists …. which means she has as much concern for them as that old crocodile wayne mapp ….kill em and their kids …

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TACfQT3Th3k – short 3.24second truth clip.

      • Jenny 7.1.1

        6 September 2018 at 7:50 am
        You weren’t in the ‘Real Rebel’ held areas Jenny …. forced marriage or death to the infidel for you otherwise ….

        Though I might not have been in the ‘Real Rebel’ held areas, Anita McNaught was. Sending in video reports from rebel held Al Bab. Al Bab allegedly, according to the US, is under Isis control.

        When she was in Al Bab to cover the regime’s bombing of the town. McNaught never suffered forced marriage, or death, or even had to cover her hair.

        Al Bab has the distinction of being bombed, not just by the regime, but by the war planes of America and Russia as well.

        What that these three powers have in common is the fear that the Arab people of the region will overthrow the various foreign backed tyrannies and autocracies that oppress them.

        • Jenny

          Related posts:

          Al Bab bombed by Russia and the US, as well as the Regime.

          U.S. airstrike in Syria may have killed 50 civilians
          Roy Gutman and Mousab Alhamadee – McClatchy Foreign Staff, January 11, 2015

          ….The civilians were being held in a makeshift jail in the town of Al Bab, close to the Turkish border, when the aircraft struck on the evening of Dec. 28, the witnesses said. The building, called the Al Saraya, a government center, was leveled in the airstrike. It was days before civil defense workers could dig out the victims’ bodies.

          The U.S. Central Command, which had not previously announced the airstrike, confirmed the attack Saturday in response to repeated McClatchy inquiries. “Coalition aircraft did strike and destroy an ISIL headquarters building in Al Bab on Dec. 28,” Col. Patrick S. Ryder said in an email.

          He said a review of the airstrike showed no evidence of civilian casualties but offered to examine any additional information, “since we take all allegations seriously.” ISIL is an alternative name for the Islamic State.

          Turkish war planes also pile in, teaming up with the Russian air force to conduct aerial mass murder in Al Bab

          Russian and Turkish jets ‘bomb ISIL’ in Syria’s Al Bab
          Russia’s defence ministry says its fighter jets teamed up with Turkish warplanes to hit ISIL in northern Syria’s Al Bab.
          Al Jazeera – January 19, 2017

          Russian and Turkish jets have carried out joint air raids against ISIL fighters in the town of Al Bab in northern Syria, according to Russia’s military.

          Lieutenant-General Sergei Rudskoi, a senior defence ministry official, said on Wednesday that nine Russian and eight Turkish fighter jets had together struck targets in the town, located northeast of Aleppo.

          “Today the Russian and Turkish air forces are conducting their first joint air operation to strike [ISIL] in the suburbs of Al Bab,” Rudskoi said.

          Russia inviting Trump administration officials to Syria talks
          “The assessment of the initial results … showed the strikes were highly effective.”

          …….Separately, US-led coalition jets also struck ISIL positions in Al Bab on Tuesday and Wednesday, according to coalition spokesman Colonel John Dorrian.

          “These strikes were the result of continued cooperation with Turkey, and we saw a window of opportunity where it was in our mutual interests to get those targets destroyed,” Dorrian said.

          Russia bombs Syria
          America bombs Syria
          Syria bombs Syria
          Israel bombs Syria
          Turkey bombs Syria

          What these forces all have in common is an interest in preserving imperial and autocratic control and subjugation of the Syrian people.

        • reason

          Your a bad joke Jenny …… why do you dismiss and cover up the medieval beliefs and actions of the most effective ‘rebels’ / fighters in Syria ???

          ” According to Iraqi MP Vian Dakhil, herself a Yazidi from Sinjar, an estimated 6,383 Yazidis – mostly women and children – were enslaved and transported to Isis prisons, military training camps, and the homes of fighters across eastern Syria and western Iraq, where they were raped, beaten, sold, and locked away.”



          Your also a dishonest hypocrite Jenny …. using the Ad Hom ‘ Assadist ‘ like some NATO bot ….

          to quote yourself at yourself …. “Rather than debate the facts, Assadist is the sort of ad hominem abusive language that the NATO apologists on this site typically resort to, when you provide them with evidence counter to their sick support for Islamo-fascism.”

          Jenny wants continual war for Syria …. those she calls ‘Assadist’ generally want peace for their country and region….

      • Jenny 7.1.2

        reason 7.1
        6 September 2018 at 7:50 am
        You weren’t in the ‘Real Rebel’ held areas Jenny …. forced marriage or death to the infidel for you otherwise ….

        Reason, what your ignorant comment references, and feeds into, is Islamophobia and racism, as some sort of justification for mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

        Jenny regarding Syria … volume / output wise … is more of a warmongering tub thumper than Wayne mapp…. and that’s saying something .

        She’s used every bit of propaganda the pro war mob have churned out …. If you’ve had a Lobotomy or otherwise have a cauterized memory …. then some of what she ways could be credible.

        Rather than debate the facts, the above is typical of the sort of ad hominem abusive language that the Assadist apologists on this site typically resort to, when you provide them with evidence counter to their sick support for fascism.

        To him and all the other Syria Holocaust Deniers including including Mike Smith

        I will again ask the question that every single one of you, have resolutely and, steadfastly, ignored and refused to answer:

        Who did this?

        And is it not evidence of genocide?


        • reason

          Homs ?? ….

          ” Christians to Beirut Alawites to the grave” … that Homs Jenny …. yes your ‘rebels’ were involved in genocide and ethnic cleansing …. shame about the evil mess you seem to have had a small hand in creating ….

          This good article debunks most of the pro war clap trap that Jenny posts …. It comes with over 60 references from a multitude of sources ,…. https://gowans.wordpress.com/2016/10/22/the-revolutionary-distemper-in-syria-that-wasnt/

          For instance ….. her ‘conspiracy’ accusations …

          Debunked and exposed ….. “That the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood played a key role in the uprising that erupted three months later was confirmed in 2012 by the US Defense Intelligence Agency. A leaked report from the agency said that the insurgency was sectarian and led by the Muslim Brotherhood and Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the forerunner of Islamic State. The report went on to say that the insurgents were supported by the West, Arab Gulf oil monarchies and Turkey. The analysis correctly predicted the establishment of a “Salafist principality,” an Islamic state, in Eastern Syria, noting that this was desired by the insurgency’s foreign backers, who wanted to see the secular Arab nationalists isolated and cut-off from Iran. [29]

          “The analysis correctly predicted the establishment of a “Salafist principality,” an Islamic state, in Eastern Syria, noting that this was desired by the insurgency’s foreign backers, ”


    • Ed 8.1

      I read Patrick Cockburn, John Pilger and Eva Bartlett.

      The latter writes.

      “Idlib, when liberated, will be the new Daraa, where formerly terrorized schoolchildren are back at school; the new east Ghouta, where formerly terrorized civilians are no longer executed in the streets; the new… east Aleppo, Madaya, al-Waer…..”

      And Cockburn is an authority on the war.

      “This is why everything you’ve read about the wars in Syria and Iraq could be wrong.

      It is too dangerous for journalists to operate in rebel-held areas of Aleppo and Mosul. But there is a tremendous hunger for news from the Middle East, so the temptation is for the media give credence to information they get second hand who could in practice only operate if they belong to or are in sympathy with the dominant jihadi opposition groups.“


    • Muttonbird 8.2

      Hi Jenny.

      I know you are very committed to this subject. Looks like you have had personal experience there, and you’ve always been very consistent in voicing support for everyday citizens in Syria and beyond against dictatorial authority, or against foreign interference in the region.

      But our resident foreign policy expert, Wayne, has just defined what he considers credible news sources and Human Rights Watch is certainly not among them.

      This isn’t an attack on you because as I said you are very consistent on this and have an admirable focus on regular people as is the way with good socially conscious people.

      It’s more a concern about the impossibility of truth over the last seven years of civil war in Syria. Look at the very first post on this thread by our foreign policy expert. He flat out says Mike Smith’s piece is a lie and reports by conservative US and European media is the real truth. I’d actually say the Wayne’s sources don’t have a great record in this region but that’s just me.

      I feel the truth in Syria is so opaque. It’s an information black hole. No-one can even begin to agree on who did the crude chlorine attacks in May, or the previous year near Damascus. And how many $1.5M cruise missiles were shot down in the western strikes? Somewhere between 3 and 50, apparently.

      The lack of credible information coming from the region is both alarming and depressing because despot behaviour by American, British, Syrian, Turkish, Kurdish, IS caliphate, Russian, Saudi, Israeli, Iranian, and local Syrian gangs is unchecked and they are all in a position to do massive harm under the cover of limited truthful reporting.

      We are permanently in the dark and it is very scary.

      • Jenny 8.2.1

        Kia ora Muttonbird.

        Thank you for your supportive comments.

        I have tried to write a longer reply to your thoughtful post, which I thought it deserved, but it has been blocked.

        Please accept my apologies.

        P.S. I have kept a copy, and as has become my habit when my comments are blocked, I will email it to the authors. In the hope that they will let it through.

      • Jenny 8.2.2

        Morena Muttonbird

        As my full reply to you was blocked, I will try and post short extracts from it, hoping that they will get through.

        This is the first:
        Sorting truth from fiction

        I have often been criticised for my use of cliches, but two came to mind when comparing the two competing Left narratives on Syria.

        ‘What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive’

        And it’s opposite

        ‘Occam’s razor’

        Both these cliche’s, the first apocryphal, the second academic, speak to a way of logically sorting truth from absurdity, in lieu of any personal experience, or factual knowledge, of the claims being made.

        The unlikely and complex and changing narrative of the pro Assad lobby gives a clue. ‘Gas attack didn’t happen’. ‘Gas attack did happen, but was committed by the opposition against their own side to discredit the regime’. ‘The Arab Spring wasn’t real, or signifcant’ ‘The Arab Spring was real, but it was a work of the CIA.’ 

        Other clues are the censorious and abusive nature of the pro-Assad lobby. That, and their callous indifference to genocide and torture. Not to mention the Western Fascist company they keep.

        I accept that it is difficult and even “scary” finding yourself unable to determine the truth. This is understandable, when all you have to go on is the blizzard of conflicting narratives and fire hose of propaganda on the internet. In my case, I have been fortunate in that I have got to know conditions on the ground in Syria just before the revolt broke out. (If I hadn’t, I could just as easily found myself in the ‘scary’ situation that you find yourself in.)

        To be continued……


        • reason

          Gas attacks …. Why do you think it is not common knowledge ….. that Isis has used chemical weapons at least 52 times in Syria and Iraq ….. Jenny ?….

          as a quick google search shows …

          “ISIS Used Chemical Arms at Least 52 Times in Syria and Iraq …

          https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/world/middleeas… Proxy Highlight

          21 Nov 2016 … “The coalition is concerned about ISIL’s use of chemical weapons,”

          It seems your ‘rebels’ get up to a lot of gassing……. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iraqi-unit-with-us-australian-advisers-hit-by-isis-mustard-agent/

          The usa was involved in the largest previous use of Sarin gas …. when they helped use it against the Iranians in the Iraq iran war ….. it turned a battle and possibly stopped the Iranians from winning the war.

          Later when Saddam / Iraq gassed the Kurds …. Britain and others accused Iran of doing it .,…., despite knowing full well they were also victims, and did not commit the crime.

          Gas now seems the only possible way for the rebels to stave of defeat …. crossing that handy red line which would enable the usa to fully invade .

          Their proxy fighters have failed.

          Wou be Zldn’t it

      • Jenny 8.2.3


        I accept that it is difficult and even “scary” finding yourself unable to determine the truth. This is understandable, when all you have to go on is the blizzard of conflicting narratives and fire hose of propaganda on the internet. In my case, I have been fortunate in that I have got to know conditions on the ground in Syria just before the revolt broke out. (If I hadn’t, I could just as easily found myself in the ‘scary’ situation that you find yourself in.)

        But just for the moment; going only by what can be found on the internet, I recently came upon this contribution by a reviewer of documentaries on Syria, who, like many here, has no first hand knowledge or experience of Syria. Other than what he sees in the documentaries he reviews.

        What I liked about his contribution is that he lays out the two narratives of the internet debate objectively side by side…..

        Truth, Lies and Alt-Facts: The Syrian Civil War
        Who is telling the story of the Syrian Civil War and why? What are their agendas?

        Daniel Glassman – November 8, 2017

        First, beginning with what the author calls:
        …THE MAINSTREAM version of events”

        You might be surprised to find out that the story of the Syrian Civil War to date is hotly contested ground. Not the war: the story.

        Here’s the conventional take. In early 2011, when the Arab Spring had yet to take hold in Syria, some teenage boys in the southern town of Daraa scrawled anti-Assad graffiti on a wall. The regime responded by arresting and torturing them. The people protested, demanding the removal of the local governor. The Assad regime, seeing what was happening to their counterparts in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, decided not to risk leniency and responded with a heavy hand, violently crushing the protests. The funerals of dead protesters then turned into bigger protests. Soon, masses across the country were calling for the ouster of Assad, which he met with bombings and notorious chemical attacks like the one in April 2013 in Ghouta, which killed 1400 civilians.

        Seeing these abuses, Syrian soldiers began defecting in order to defend the protesters from Assad, starting local militias under the umbrella of the Free Syrian Army. Assad characterized the resistance as foreign-funded jihadism. The West, based on those warnings and its experiences in the quagmires of Iraq and Afghanistan, refused to fund or militarily aid rebel groups. The Free Syrian Army splintered and, into the void it left, came ISIS.

        Originally a branch of al-Qaeda, ISIS gained the loyalty of three groups: Iraqi ex-Ba’athists alienated and angered by the new regime, extremists formerly imprisoned by Assad and released after the outbreak of revolution to undermine the rebels’ image, and foreign fighters—largely aimless youth wooed by ISIS’ action movie-style propaganda videos—from Africa, Central Asia, Europe and North America.
        ISIS quickly took over large swathes of northern Syria, establishing a capital in Raqqa. When they were driven out of parts of the region, they stormed over the border into Iraq, where they took over Mosul and massacred its Yazidi religious minority. The Kurds came to the rescue, driving ISIS out of Iraq’s north while the Iraqi army fought back from its outposts near Baghdad. Back to Syria went ISIS—and there it remains, in a sinister semblance of a truce with Assad and his Russian backers as they focus on driving out the other remaining rebel forces and establish regime control again.

        Meanwhile, Syrian refugees have been pouring over the borders into Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey, and from Turkey across the Mediterranean to Greece and into Europe. This has set off a wave of xenophobic nationalist hysteria that paints refugees as criminals and terrorists, fuelling the rise of far-right politicians like Marine Le Pen and Nigel Farage.

        THAT’S THE MAINSTREAM version of events.

        Against it is a massive alternative-news ecosystem of investigative journalists, bloggers, academics and conspiracy theorists, which casts doubt on every assertion I just made……

        To be continued…..

      • Jenny 8.2.4


        …….Meanwhile, Syrian refugees have been pouring over the borders into Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey, and from Turkey across the Mediterranean to Greece and into Europe. This has set off a wave of xenophobic nationalist hysteria that paints refugees as criminals and terrorists, fuelling the rise of far-right politicians like Marine Le Pen and Nigel Farage.

        THAT’S THE MAINSTREAM version of events.

        Against it is a massive alternative-news ecosystem of investigative journalists, bloggers, academics and conspiracy theorists, which casts doubt on every assertion I just made……

        For them, the story goes something more like this: the 2011 protests, as initially reported by mainstream media like Time Magazine and the New York Times, were small, and social media attempts to incite a “Day of Rage” fizzled. This indicates, to them, that Syrians en masse did not desire the ouster of Assad. The rebellion that emerged is thus characterized not as the popular expression of a desire for freedom but as the work of violent jihadists only—ISIS, al-Nusra, and so on. It was the latter, according to these people, who were in fact responsible for the 2013 Ghouta chemical attack, and the 2017 Khan Shaykhun one as well—false flags, both, meant to draw the West into the war.

        This isn’t a fringe account of events. It surfaces in respectable outlets across the political spectrum — The Intercept, Alternet, Jacobin, The American Conservative and, in one very high-profile and controversial instance, the London Review of Books (LRB), to name just a few — and has deep roots in the bowels of the internet: places like Naked Capitalism, The Centre for Research on Globalization, and the dread RT, among others. If some among the latter group, which can look like mid-’00s blogs or tabloids and indulge in a fair bit of yellow journalistic style, presumptuous jargon and the references and responses endemic to an insular blogosphere, can seem easy enough to dismiss, others give pause. Academics from respected institutions, American ex-intelligence agents, newspaper columnists and celebrated journalists like Seymour Hersh, Patrick Cockburn and Robert Parry are among its numbers. At its root is the dearth of verifiable information coming out of Syria. Western journalists who brave it are embedded in regime-held areas, while citizen journalism by Syrians tends to be poor in terms of quality and, at a time when even video evidence is easily faked, easy to dismiss.

        It was Hersh whose 2013 LRB story article, Whose sarin? set the alt-news ecosystem alight. There, he claimed that the Ghouta attacks were not carried out by the Assad regime, but by the Syrian opposition—probably the al-Nusra Front. His article cited anonymous sources in American intelligence, where Hersh’s have long been considered second to none. That anonymity did not raise red flags among alt-news people, but it did mean that no mainstream news outlets in the U.S. would agree to publish his account. Bolstering it, though, was Jeffrey Goldberg’s 2016 Atlantic article The Obama Doctrine. Buried in Goldberg’s discussion of Obama’s reasons for his infamous flip-flop on his “red line” regarding chemical attacks in Syria is that, at the decisive moment, Obama was told by his director of national intelligence, James Clapper, that there was a lack of concrete proof that the regime of Bashar Al-Assad was responsible for the Ghouta attack. It wasn’t a “slam dunk.” Evidently, there was enough doubt in the ex-president’s mind to renege on his red line.
        For these commentators, whose perspectives are formed more than anything by the memory of the Iraq War and the media’s complicity in the lies around the weapons of mass destruction casus belli, whatever looks like American intervention is called out as crypto-“regime change.” Deriving from that, anything that officials and the mainstream media blame on the Assad regime is subjected to extreme scrutiny and skepticism and ultimately blamed on jihadists like ISIS or al-Nusra. This makes them, at a certain level, Assad apologists: much is made of Syria’s pre-Arab Spring stability and civility; report upon report of torture, political repression and other human rights abuses are summarily dismissed. Concomitantly, the rebels are framed unequivocally as foreign-funded Sunni jihadist terrorists. The reasoning: if they are understood to be secular, democratic liberals—as the mainstream narrative goes—then that leaves room to argue that the West should be on their side. Intervention is a non-starter; everything else follows from that premise.

        For these commentators, whose perspectives are formed more than anything by the memory of the Iraq War and the media’s complicity in the lies around the weapons of mass destruction casus belli, whatever looks like American intervention is called out as crypto-“regime change.” Deriving from that, anything that officials and the mainstream media blame on the Assad regime is subjected to extreme scrutiny and skepticism and ultimately blamed on jihadists like ISIS or al-Nusra. This makes them, at a certain level, Assad apologists: much is made of Syria’s pre-Arab Spring stability and civility; report upon report of torture, political repression and other human rights abuses are summarily dismissed. Concomitantly, the rebels are framed unequivocally as foreign-funded Sunni jihadist terrorists. The reasoning: if they are understood to be secular, democratic liberals—as the mainstream narrative goes—then that leaves room to argue that the West should be on their side. Intervention is a non-starter; everything else follows from that premise.

        Here’s an example of the uncomfortable places the logic will take them. A particular object of alt-news ire is the group of volunteer first responders the White Helmets. The subjects of two documentaries—the saccharine, propagandistic Oscar-winning short The White Helmets and the somewhat-better-though-still-flawed Last Men in Aleppo — the White Helmets have drawn nothing but praise in the mainstream West, with the British newspapers The Guardian and The Telegraph running editorials endorsing the group for the Nobel Peace Prize. In places like Alternet, The Centre for Research on Globalization, 21st Century Wire, Moon of Alabama and Activist Post, by contrast, a different conventional logic prevails. There, it is common to see the White Helmets referred to as a terrorist group, linked variously with ISIS, al-Qaeda or al-Nusra, possibly even being the propaganda organ of one of those groups. As recently as May 2017, Ben Norton and Max Blumenthal could write an article on Alternet entitled, “Yet Another Video Shows U.S.-Funded White Helmets Assisting Public Executions in Rebel-Held Syria: The shocking regime change scandal mainstream media refuses to touch.”…….

        I could go on; but Lynn Prentice objects strongly to dumping large tranches of text onto his site. (I hope that Lynn can forgive me in this instance). I have only gone on as long as I have, to attempt to give some justice or present balance to both sides of the argument. But I think you get the idea.
        If you really want to go deeper into the writer’s interminable and even more long winded pro Assadist argument, go to the embedded link at the top, in the headline.

    • reason 8.3

      17 – 20 mins the lies of war and Jennys myths exposed.

      • Jenny 8.3.1

        Adding insult to injury.

        A book review

        Dereliction of duty? The Left and the Syrian Civil War
        By Evan Sandlin

        “IF EVER a country deserved rape it’s Afghanistan,” said the late left-wing journalist Alexander Cockburn in January 1980, just before the start of major Soviet operations in Afghanistan……

        …..Despite the carnage, a number of Western leftists applauded Soviet actions, characterizing the new government as good-hearted reformers, dedicated to “deep-seated social reform.” The invasion was supported by members of the “old left,” such as the Communist Party USA, as well as by influential figures in the “new left,” like Angela Davis, Daniel Lazare, and Fred Halliday.

        Recent gyrations about the Syrian Civil War have a similar moral vacuum. For many on the left, the Assad regime is a longstanding bastion of socialism, secularism, modernization, and anti-imperialism. In a sea of US-backed client states in the Middle East and Persian Gulf, Syria appeared resilient in the face of US power, even as the end of the Cold War decimated left-wing movements around the globe. But the enduring myth of the Assad family’s left-wing orientation is convincingly deconstructed by Syrian authors Robin Yassin-Kassab and Leila Al-Shami in Burning Country, their account of the origins of the Syrian Civil War.

        The authors recount a long list of the late Hafez al-Assad’s dubious accomplishments, which should ostensibly unsettle left-wing readers: betrayal of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, acceptance of aid from Gulf monarchies, joining the US coalition in the 1991 Gulf War, working “to preserve the Islamic identity of the country,” and economic liberalization. Bashar al-Assad’s socialist credentials are even less convincing. The younger Assad participated in the US “War on Terror,” cut subsidies for food and fuel, aggressively liberalized banking and trade, and opened the country to US and European oil drilling. Far from being a bastion of socialism, Yassin-Kassab and Al-Shami characterize Assad’s Syria as a “fascist” and “corporatist” state.

        The authors downplay the effect of US sanctions (they mention them only in passing) and do not credit Hafez al-Assad for some of his more successful modernization efforts. However, it is difficult to see how one could maintain a view of Assad’s Syria as friendly to left-wing causes, let alone basic liberal notions of universal human rights. The only way in which such a view could be supported is if one adopts an outdated “Eastern bloc is good, Western bloc is bad” framework for analyzing international politics…….

        Remarkably, though, Blumenthal does not extend such courtesy to the Syrian rebels or even Syrian first responders. Instead, he criticizes their politics extensively while saying virtually nothing about the brutality of the much more powerful (and much more deadly) Assad regime……

        ……Another prominent thread in left-wing Assadist apologetics is Orientalism and Islamophobia. The view that the natives are backward and need redemption was also a staple of left-wing commentary in defense of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979……

        ……Besides its Cold War frame and Islamophobia, the left’s Syria position has another aggravating factor: not listening to actual Syrians.

        Yassin-Kassab and Al-Shami assemble grim accounts of the early revolution in Burning Country. Police ripped out children’s fingernails, sit-ins were dispersed with live fire, hospitals were occupied by soldiers who detained or shot the wounded. All of this occurred before the opposition had fired a single shot…..

        ……The Assadist apologetics of the left are not directly responsible for the suffering in Syria, but it stifles potential activism that could make changes on the margins, and above all, it adds insult to what is likely a multigenerational injury.*

        * (My emphasis), J

        • corodale

          Ok, so if Assad wasn’t a positive example of socialism, then where do we find a positive example of socialism? Are there any such examples? Sounds a bit boring to say Scandinavia. With neighbours like Israel and Babylon…

          Only better idea than BRICS Plus might be to bring back Alexander the Great and forge his birth cert to say he’s a Chinese Jew. Can you remind us what your idea was for a better govt/leader? UN/NATO BAU? Maybe, but the odds on the Russian/Iranian/Turkey solution are also pretty good.

  8. Morrissey 9

    our resident foreign policy expert, Wayne


    That was a joke, right?

    • Muttonbird 9.1

      It was sarcastic, or tongue-in-cheek, or what you will but the fact remains Wayne represents the very highest level of defence and foreign policy experience on this board and indeed any other board in this country.

      Wayne though represents the conservative establishment and defends the idea of global hegemony by the West and also the means by which that is achieved.

      He disguises this blatant resource and wealth grab in the Middle East by Western governments and corporates with terms like ‘Arab Spring’, and ‘promotion of democracy’ in a supposedly benighted Arab world.

      Very simply, I think the West should admit they have always been after power over Middle East resources rather than peace for Middle East people. And then they should just get the fuck out.

      • McFlock 9.1.1

        Only if everyone else should do it too. Otherwise, why just the West?

        • Muttonbird

          Who else are we talking about here?

          • McFlock

            Hell, even Iran/Israel/Saudi are doing the same shit on the regional level.

            • Muttonbird

              I must have missed where Russia and China and Iran have used shock and awe fuel bombs and sent hundreds of thousands of troops and tens of thousands of cluster bombs and cruise missiles in the name of regime change while funding head-chopper groups and roving scumbag gangs with limitless artillery. All this HALF WAY AROUND THE FUCKING WORLD WHERE THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER!

              • McFlock

                So did you miss the bit where Russia sent it’s aircraft carrier, ground troops, bombers, and fired missiles from the caspian to support Assad? Or China sending its own troops?

                Or is it more the quantity you are fixated with – like, you’d be cool if the West (or do you just mean the yanks) merely dipped the tip in rather than sending thousands of troops?

                • Muttonbird

                  I had to look that up but China apparently has sent troops to Syria to confront Chinese mercenary rebels embedded in ISIS groups and presumably training with these terrorist types resident now in smaller and smaller enclaves.

                  To China I say go hard. If the Ugyr group has to tie itself to head-chopping scumbags to train then they need to be wiped out, pronto.

                  After all the West has turned a blind eye to Tiananmen Square and the rest of their questionable human rights in order to tap into their economy and get filthy rich of poor worker conditions there.

                • Bill

                  If the Syrian government had invited the US military presence to the country in line with international law, like they did Russia…

                  • McFlock

                    … it would be ok for the yanks to be blowing up hospitals?

                    • Morrissey

                      Your facetious question implies that “the yanks” do not blow up hospitals. You know perfectly well that “the yanks” do blow up hospitals, and that they fully fund, and rhetorically excuse, the Saudi and Israeli exponents of hospital assault.

                      Another major crime with very serious persisting effects is the Marine assault on the Iraqi city of Fallujah in November 2004.

                      Women and children were permitted to escape if they could. After several weeks of bombing, the attack opened with a carefully planned war crime: Invasion of the Fallujah General Hospital, where patients and staff were ordered to the floor, their hands tied. Soon the bonds were loosened; the compound was secure.

                      The official justification was that the hospital was reporting civilian casualties, and therefore was considered a propaganda weapon.

                      Much of the city was left in “smoking ruins,” the press reported while the Marines sought out insurgents in their “warrens.” The invaders barred entry to the Red Crescent relief organization. Absent an official inquiry, the scale of the crimes is unknown.


                    • Bill

                      It’s not alright for anyone to blow up or bomb hospitals, and it’s not alright for anyone to falsely claim someone is blowing up hospitals, and it’s not alright for anyone to compromise the neutrality of the Red Cross and other such like orgs.

                      It’s also not alright for a government to deploy troops to a foreign country in contravention of international law that it claims to (otherwise) respect.

                      And while we’re here.

                      It’s also not alright to impose sanctions on peoples, or for governments to seek regime change in countries just because those other countries aren’t “suitably” aligned politically.

                    • McFlock


                      Your facetious question implies that “the yanks” do not blow up hospitals

                      No, it doesn’t.

                      When we’re talking about a dictator’s dominion over a geographic area arbitrarily defined by french and English diplomats, appealing to international law is a bit rich.

                      And dictators often request assistance when their subjects resist them.

            • reason

              The Russians saved Syria from the fate of Libya ….. are you pretending the Libya state destruction is ok McFlock ??

              If so go and stand by that bloodhound Wayne mapp

              … or go to ‘liberated’ Libya

              • McFlock

                Oh bullshit. The russians saved Assad.

                • reason

                  Yeah yeah …. and NATO saved Libya from Qaddafi

                  To quote David Cameron ” they threw off a dictator …”

                  Statistics or the living standards for Libya have now disappeared off the internet / UN …

                  …such has been the destruction and decline of Libya …. just like Iraq.

                  NATO had the same medicine in store for Syria …..

                  The Caliphate to destroy a nation state…..

                  Proudly sponsored by NATO and Arab friends ….


                  • McFlock

                    Obviously it’s morally superior to support a dictator in years of warfare than it is to support the people fighting him. Everyone should stay in except the yanks. That’ll make a massive difference /sarc

  9. sumsuch 10

    They asked for democracy. We should have taken them at their word and imposed the UN control needed. Likewise the other Arab Spring countries. How appalling to consider idealism relevant.

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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    4 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    5 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    5 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    5 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    5 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
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