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Curiosity – 5:30pm

Written By: - Date published: 3:40 pm, August 6th, 2012 - 106 comments
Categories: International, science - Tags: , , ,

At around 5:30pm this evening Curiosity will either touch down safely on Mars, or make (another) expensive smudge on the surface. Various links below – tune in. Good luck Curiosity…

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/participate/

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/08/120805-nasa-tv-mars-landing-rover-curiosity-science-how-watch-see/

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/370520/20120805/nasa-mars-landing-curiosity-live-stream-watch.htm

106 comments on “Curiosity – 5:30pm”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    I find it good that enthusiasm for space exploration seems to be increasing again after the doldrums it’s been in for the last couple of decades.

    Or it’s that the MSM are feeding us this to cover the lack of news coverage that they actually do.

  2. Kotahi Tāne Huna 2

    A “sky crane”????

    Top marks for imagination.

    • r0b 2.1

      It’s a clever idea. Even cleverer if it works.

      • lprent 2.1.1

        Yeah – half a million lines of code for the landing sequence running on electronics and hardware that has been frozen and then carefully warmed up in circumstances that’d be nigh well impossible to reproduce in test scenarios. Ummm….

        Mind you if it all works, then it will be a stunning achievement. Probably far more than most people will realize…

        • r0b 2.1.1.1

          I really feel for the programmers and mission controllers. One shot, impossible to test, all the blame if it fails, no attention if it succeeds.

          Ahh but if it does succeed, how cool is that!

          • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1.1.1

            In our cold uncaring quantum universe this type of project does cheer one up. One of the few reasons for having a long life, to see how some of it turns out. Peter Higgs would have been grinning for days.

          • Pascal's bookie 2.1.1.1.2

            And waiting 14 minutes, which is an astoundingly short time really, but Laaaaaaagg.

          • lprent 2.1.1.1.3

            Was kind of amusing watching the various teams looking VERY relieved as their part of the sequence worked.

            That was pretty damn amazing. I was somewhat freaked this morning reviewing the landing sequence…

  3. Awesome.

    I nearly cried during the live stream from CERN when the Higgs was announced so if this succeeds I am imagine I’ll get weepy…..yes, I am a real science geek. 

  4. King Kong 4

    I for one am against this.

    It is just a thinly disguised right wing imperial plot.

    Peacefull science mission today then heavilly armed at-at walkers decimating the locals tommorow.

    This is the thin end of the wedge I tell you.

  5. shorts 5

    as an unemployed father of four – where does one sign up for work on an at-at walker?

  6. joe90 6

    I’m watching the NASA stream.

    http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ustream.html?curiosity

    And a metafilter post with a bucket load of links relevant to Curiosity.

    http://www.metafilter.com/118584/Oh-man-look-at-those-cavemen-go

  7. Pascal's bookie 8

    Go the parachute.

  8. joe90 9

    http://twitter.com/MarsCuriosity

    Parachute deployed! Velocity 900 mph. Altitude 7 miles. 4 minutes to Mars!

  9. Pascal's bookie 11

    Touchdown confirmed. Continuuing to recieve telemetry. You magnificent bastards.

  10. Colonial Viper 12

    Wow a few peeps in that control room seemed pretty happy 😀

  11. Colonial Viper 13

    Its at moments like this you remember why the USA has been such a magnificent, great nation.

    • Tiger Mountain 13.1

      Ahem, and so was the USSR. Space is now another corporate opportunity. But great to be able to view this event regardless.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        NB Russia can still send men into orbit, the USA has lost that ability 😉

    • Te Reo Putake 13.2

      Yep, it’s a triumph of their free enterprise system, fer sure. Oh, wait … 😉
       
      Loved the old hippy looking dude, I think he only took the gig at NASA coz the Dead stopped touring.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      We could do the same thing if we decided to invest in researching and producing stuff rather than concentrating on farming, house speculation and capital gains.

    • muzza 13.4

      Get some cold water on those hard ons fellas eh…

  12. It’s amazing what the Human imagination is capable of! Faaaan-bloody-tastic!! (played Jeff Wayne’s “War of the Worlds”)

    Now if only we can do something equally imaginative back home. with all our problems…

    Left our good wishes on the JPL Facebook site. http://www.facebook.com/NASAJPL

  13. bad12 17

    Yeah that a good one from Nasa, space the final frontier and all that, a total facination, some primitive echo from deep within me likens it to going home,

    And for the next amazing trick?, How bout tests show that there is liquid H2O in the Martian soil, the chemical composition of the soil and atmosphere is a known and thus the same conditions can be recreated as a sealed enviroment back here to test what plant life will grow in such conditions,

    Next machine down to the Mars surface an automated seed drill complete with seeds???…

  14. lostinsuburbia 18

    I understand that NASA’s next mission is to send a probe to the National Party headquarters to see if they can find intelligent life….

    • bad12 18.1

      Cross the fingers it aint old Lizard Eyes Nick Smith that gets the honor of probing, it’s a given that if that happened the result would be a finding of only primitive amoeba having been discovered…

    • prism 18.2

      lis 18
      😀

  15. weka 19

    At the risk of becoming a pariah here, how do you all reconcile this with the looming energy, climate, economic and environmental crises?

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      You appreciate it all the more because we’re not going to be able to do much more than this, for much longer.

      By the way, the US Viking Program put a lander on Mars in 1976. You might notice that 35 years later, they’ve just achieved essentially the same thing, albeit with more up to date technology and a wider mission.

      • weka 19.1.1

        You appreciate it all the more because we’re not going to be able to do much more than this, for much longer.
         

        Understandable.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      how do you all reconcile this with the looming [1] energy, [2] climate, [3] economic and [4] environmental crises?

      Easy:
      1.) Space program doesn’t use that much energy. Effective power down will save far more (of course, we’re not actually doing that yet but I’m sure we’ll get around to it).
      2.) While the initial launch would have produced some pollution most of it would have been water.
      3.) We’re not actually having an economic crisis yet – we’re having a financial crisis.
      4.) This is a bit more of a concern considering the destructive mining techniques used to get the resources to actually build the spaceship.

      • weka 19.2.1

        1) did you include all energy costs eg manufacture, running costs of infrastructure etc?
         
        2) again, any cc related pollution audit would need to take into account total outputs, not just launch.
         
        3) point taken but I did say ‘looming’
         
        4) I was more thinking of the money/time/energy/scientific development being better spent elsewhere.

        • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.1

          1.) Most of the infrastructure is in place and mostly used for other stuff. The space program would be a small diversion of that existing energy use.
          2.) See 1.)
          3.) I’m reasonably certain that even after the economic crisis hits we’ll still be able to afford a space program.
          4.) You may not have noticed but a hell of a lot of information about the climate comes from NASA. In fact, if it wasn’t for the space program we probably wouldn’t know as much as we do. A ‘space program’ covers a hell of a lot more than just a few space ships which is why I think we (NZ) need one with at least $1b/year government funding.

          • TheContrarian 19.2.1.1.1

            “You may not have noticed but a hell of a lot of information about the climate comes from NASA. In fact, if it wasn’t for the space program we probably wouldn’t know as much as we do. A ‘space program’ covers a hell of a lot more than just a few space ships which is why I think we (NZ) need one with at least $1b/year government funding.”

            This one rover mission cost over 3b NZD. Plus we have to build it, train people, house everyone, feed everyone, educate everyone, mine everything, provide everything for everyone from our own resources (this is of course what Draco has suggested NZ should do)

            You can’t have it all, Draco.

            • McFlock 19.2.1.1.1.1

              True.
              Let’s regulate the finance companies better so they don’t have to be bailed out. That’d sort us for most of the costs.
              Increase income tax levels to be more in line with Aus, an FTT and a CGT would fund the needed social services expenditure.
                   
              Hell, we can have it all – except for growing inequality and financial traders who have minimal oversight. Those we will have to drop, sadly. 

            • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.1.1.2

              This one rover mission cost over 3b NZD.

              And took how many years to develop?

              You can’t have it all

              Yes, actually, we can. We presently produce more food than we can eat using a small fraction of the population. Same goes for housing, training and mining. Thing is, if we actually limited our economy to provide only that which we need as far as those essentials go we could actually have a hell of a lot more than we do now as we wouldn’t be wasting so much of our economy producing cheap food to buy expensive toys. Back 30 years ago when we actually had a major manufacturing sector the service sector made up only about 5% to 10% of the economy, now it makes up about 30% which really is a huge waste of resources. Do more stuff, be richer and all we have to do is sacrifice McDs. I think we can live with that.

              • weka

                We presently produce more food than we can eat using a small fraction of the population.
                 

                But only because we’re strip mining the fertility from the soil that was built up over millennia. It ain’t going to last. Wanting to run a space program when we are likely to struggle to feed ourselves some time this century is a very strange idea. But even if that weren’t true, there are still better things to spend our money/time/energy on.
                 
                 

                • Weka, I think you may find that the space programme spends only a fraction on the most colossal waste of time, money, and energy in human history; the arms trade.

                  At least with the space programme, we’re furthering the boundaries of our collective knowledge.

                  With the arms trade, we’re creating novel ways to slaughter each other.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  But only because we’re strip mining the fertility from the soil that was built up over millennia.

                  There’s a solution to that, one that’s been known for centuries:

                  1.) Only produce enough food for us so we’re no longer strip mining the nutrients
                  2.) Once we’ve finished with the produce we treat it and then return it to the soil using suitable field rotation so that the earth can fully reintegrate the nutrients (no more need of artificial fertilisers)
                  3.) Make sure our population never goes above what the land can support

                  Throw in renewable power generation to run the electric tractors and we still only use a small fraction of the population to feed ourselves. Besides, farming has always resulted in lots of people with nothing to do. It’s how civilisation developed, how the sciences came to be understood etc etc so even if we were back to the same productivity that the Romans had 2000 years ago (which isn’t going to happen) we’d still be able to support a space program.

                  But even if that weren’t true, there are still better things to spend our money/time/energy on.

                  You let people work where their interests lie and some people are going to want to do space. Probably several thousand in fact.

                  • weka

                    “There’s a solution to that, one that’s been known for centuries:”
                     
                    But not one that’s practiced on land that’s already been stripped mined (and they didn’t use electric tractors, for very good reasons). I understand what sustainable agriculture is, and I agree that stopping exporting food is crucial whatever we do next.
                     
                    However, see if you can produce one reputable source that shows NZ’s capacity to produce food sustainably, what the population would be, and how we would manage all our other needs within an acceptable footprint. AFAIK that work hasn’t been done yet.
                     

                    You let people work where their interests lie and some people are going to want to do space.
                     

                    At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk. Many also want to eat at McDs.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Unfortunately, the country can’t and won’t stop exporting food unless we want to cease buying items and energy from overseas.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      AFAIK that work hasn’t been done yet.

                      No it hasn’t and so it needs to be done. The fact that it hasn’t been done isn’t an argument against the basic premise.

                      At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk.

                      So? Regulation prevents over use of the land meaning that they can’t no matter how much they want to.

                      Many also want to eat at McDs.

                      But nobody wants to work there.

                      @Colonial Viper

                      Unfortunately, the country can’t and won’t stop exporting food unless we want to cease buying items and energy from overseas.

                      We’d need a transition period but the sooner we start it the sooner we finish it.

                    • weka

                      No it hasn’t and so it needs to be done. The fact that it hasn’t been done isn’t an argument against the basic premise.
                       

                      Er, yes it is. What you are proposing isn’t possible given peak oil, economics, the size of our population relative to land, the state of our agricultural sector and the fact that most of the population will have a very hard time getting its head around giving up their flat screen TVs (amongst many other things).
                      If we’re lucky we might successfully transition to a low energy society. Transitioning to sustainable food production will take time, and then we won’t have cheap oil to build the wind farms to power the electric tractors, let alone build spaceships.
                       

                      At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk.

                      So? Regulation prevents over use of the land meaning that they can’t no matter how much they want to.
                       

                      Right, but in this brave new world where people have accepted sustainability as a baseline, they’re willing to let the last of our precious metal resources be sent into space? Resources that will be needed by generations to come? I don’t think so.

                      Sorry, but none of this stacks up, not the economics, the resources, or the politics.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      And at the fundamentals, it’s actually the psychology which doesn’t stack up. The psyche of the modern, growth expecting, convenience seeking consumer is (very) badly adapted cope with what needs to be done over the next 20 years.

                    • weka

                      Yep.
                       

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      @CV
                      Well then, we need to change the psychological make up of society. We do that all the time.

                      @weka

                      Er, yes it is.

                      No it’s not.

                      What you are proposing isn’t possible given peak oil, economics, the size of our population relative to land, the state of our agricultural sector and the fact that most of the population will have a very hard time getting its head around giving up their flat screen TVs (amongst many other things).

                      Don’t need oil, economics is the distribution of scarce resources not the movement of money and we have the resources and agriculture needs to decline so as to protect the environment. Won’t be giving up flat screen TVs. They may not have two or more to a house but we can still have them. As I’ve been saying, we have the resources and the knowledge needed to make our own. Such knowledge also goes towards the space program. In fact, if it hadn’t been for the US space program we probably wouldn’t have them today.

                      Transitioning to sustainable food production will take time, and then we won’t have cheap oil to build the wind farms to power the electric tractors, let alone build spaceships.

                      Don’t need oil to do that. Sure, makes it easier but we don’t need it.

                      …they’re willing to let the last of our precious metal resources be sent into space?

                      Two things:
                      1.) We won’t be. Even at present rates of consumption it’s going to be centuries before we (NZ) even start look at running our metal resources dry. The biggest problem will be mining them without oil but there are ways around that to.
                      2.) There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.

                    • “They may not have two or more to a house but we can still have them. As I’ve been saying, we have the resources and the knowledge needed to make our own. Such knowledge also goes towards the space program. ”

                      Quite frankly that is delusional. Some of the materials involved, the precious metals, do not exist in NZ or, if the do, need to be extracted in such a manner as to strip mine large chunks of land for very small, an economical, amounts.

                      This has been pointed out to you several times.

                      “There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.”

                      We are decades away from that.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      This has been pointed out to you several times.

                      Really? I haven’t seen them so point them out to me.

                      BTW, I assume you mean rare earth metals rather than “precious metals”.

                      We are decades away from that.

                      So the earlier we start the better.

                    • Without trawling through the archives Draco you’ll remember the discussion you have with higherstandard (I believe it was) and myself about the manufacturing of surgical equipment in New Zealand. And I have also discussed with you the feasibility of this also re: New Zealand having little in the way of radioactive materials. Don’t play dumb.

                      “There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.”

                      We are decades away and no matter how soon we start we are still going to have to find our own rare metals first and construct, test and more than likely lose many probes before getting it right. Metals NZ doesn’t have without significant investment in mining

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Oh, that short spiel where I proved you wrong by linking to the official geo-data. Got it. IIRC, I even said that I supported building a research reactor for the medical supplies.

                      Metals NZ doesn’t have without significant investment in mining

                      And I’ve even said that I supported such mining. My biggest problem with most mining plans in NZ is that it ends up without NZ actually benefiting from it due to:
                      1.) It’s usually done by an offshore company that has the mining rights
                      2.) Which then sells the produce offshore for a huge profit usually in its raw format (little or no processing is actually done here)
                      3.) That huge profit is then also shipped offshore except for the minimal royalties we demand
                      4.) We then have to buy back the products produced from those resources at higher prices than what it would have cost to make them here

                      Private companies should not be benefiting from our resources (much better for us if the government did the mining) and raw resources should not be exported at all.

              • Indeed, Draco.

                On top of that, when we had our own manufacturing sector, we had low unemployment and few people on unemployment welfare.

                Now we have cheap showes from China – and a whopping huge social welfare bill with it. No wonder we can’t afford free tertiary education any more.

                So those “cheap” chinese shoes ain’t so cheap after all.

                Interestingly, Bernard Hickey said something about our non-productive service sector a few months back, He stated that having thousands of people working in service, retail, and other similar sectors was a drag on the economy because it wasn’t supporting a productive export sector…

              • bad12

                No please No, anything but macca’s, take Pizza-sh*t and Kentucky-turd, but please oh please leave us with our Macca’s…

  16. Kotahi Tāne Huna 20

    Yay! Amazing. Fantastic. Something for humans to be proud of.

  17. Adele 22

    Frankly, I am hoping that if there are Martians, they will tell humanity to keep the fuck off their planet.

    Until we learn to look after our own we should not be going anywhere near another planet.

  18. prism 23

    The graphic looks like parts of Blenheim in the dry summer. Why not spend the money frittered away on ‘nice to have’ science for rich kids and spend the money supplying watering systems that conserve water to poor countries? We don’t want to end up looking like Mars.

    The Sahara and such is similar with sand rolling ever on to make a good photo op of a dry area with great images of shadow and sand troughs and lines of people and camels in lonely stark isolation that’s almost as hostile as Mars.

    • joe90 23.1

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/12/senegal-great-green-wall

      Senegal is one of 11 countries in the Sahel region of Africa looking towards the same solution to the desertification problem: The Great Green Wall. The goal of the project is to plant a wall of trees, 4,300 miles long and 9 miles wide, across the African continent, from Senegal to Djibouti. African leaders hope the trees will trap the sands of the Sahara and halt the advance of the desert.

      P

    • weka 23.2

      That photo made me wince, because it’s similarity to places we’ve created 🙁 Glad the irony wasn’t lost on quite everyone prism.

    • Draco T Bastard 23.3

      Those poor countries are probably quite rich and are certainly quite capable of administering their own resources. Sure, help them with the knowledge they need to do that administration better but, other than that, leave them to it.

      • weka 23.3.1

        I think NZ has already demonstrated that its not capable of administering its own resources.

        • Colonial Viper 23.3.1.1

          Partly disagree here. NZ was one of the first jurisdictions in the world to electrify. We did extremely well with our natural resources and infrastructure planning between the 1930’s and the 1960’s. (Much credit goes to the MoW and its forerunners which like idiots we broke up and sold off to the private sector).

          During WWII our vertically integrated rail systems kept the country running. The railways ran coal mines, forests, foundries, design offices and engineering workshops, virtually everything it needed to keep going, under its own control and co-ordination.

          Muldoon showed some vision on the transport and energy side of the equation, too.

          We were once a powerful nation in our own right.

        • Draco T Bastard 23.3.1.2

          We can but not under free-market capitalism. Free-market capitalism actually makes it impossible to manage the economy.

  19. joe90 24

    Just four more years until Juno arrives.

    • prism 24.1

      Juno – great technology, great expenditure. Poor people and infrastructure on earth for non-scientists and non-technocrats. Squillions spent on technology – thousands spent on humans and caring for our environment.

      And technology’s use – the drone planes – robot murderers from the sky, the stealth plane a black Darth Vader so expensive, to spy undetected. Some good things in the mix, but what a brew.

      A constant turning away from people, soft objects – to technology producing hard objects. Really an art installation of man’s death wish. No wonder that women and babies have to struggle for consideration and respect in this world.

  20. Richard Christie 25

    Awesome, NASA rocks,
    A shame William Pickering is no longer here to enjoy the Jet Propulsion Lab’s continuing triumphs.

  21. Carol 26

    The space beyond earth, is an imaginary space for humans to exercise their mental exploration of what might have been, and what might be in the future.

    I enjoy space fiction – it is a fertile site for the imagination to roam, especially when it is visualised on screen with accompanying sound effects.

    I rarely get excited by actual space exploration – I think it’s appeal to many is via imagination, but, for me, fiction does it better.

    It’ll be interesting if something is learned about the existence of life in the universe. But I still can’t get that excited about so much effort (and resources) for relatively limited gain.

    • lprent 26.1

      I’m far more interested in the geology than I am in the search for life. While I suspect that Mars did in fact have life from several billion years or more ago, I also suspect that its traces are going to be pretty hard to locate from the current surface.

      Like most of the early life (and the vast majority of current life) on earth most of the biomatter would have been and maybe still is well underground and away from the rather toxic environment on the surface.

      However the geology of the planet surface that hasn’t had the massive amount of rework that earth’s surface has had will in all liklihood reveal a lot about things that we simply can’t see on earth, but which are important to us now. In particular the interactions between atmosphere and rock are going to be massively easier to see on mars than they are on earth

  22. sophie 27

    Hope there are no cats on Mars.

  23. TT 28

    … meanwhile, as the USA spends billions on the pissing contest known as the space race, millions starve here on earth. Priorities?

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1

      If it were a case of “either the space race or an end to starvation” you’d have a point, but it isn’t. The fact is that historically, there has been enough food to go around. It wasn’t NASA preventing it reaching the mouths that needed it, it was politics and war.

      NASA employees are also at the cutting edge of Climatology, which warns of the threat of genuine (as opposed to politically driven) future food shortages.

      We could all learn something from NASA’s priorities.

      • weka 28.1.1

        Climate isn’t really the issue though either. Humans can grow food in a wide range of climates. The problem is whether we can grow food sustainably and without cheap oil. In that sense the criticism of space exploration stands. We are wasting much, including critical time, by pursuing mars instead of looking at crucial issues like loss of soil.
         
        Is there a reason why NASA can’t study climate without going into space?
         

        • Draco T Bastard 28.1.1.1

          Yes, they need the satellites and being able to study the Martian climate helps to understand ours.

          • weka 28.1.1.1.1

            But it’s not necessary to go to Mars to understand our own climate.

            • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.1.1.1

              Perhaps not, but it is inspiring, and will yield unexpected knowledge, and both of those things are “necessary”.

            • Draco T Bastard 28.1.1.1.1.2

              But it is necessary to go into space and so, while we’re there, we may as well go to Mars and get the extra data.

              • prism

                DTB
                Jokey Hen can use that argument. It is necessary for me to travel to Hawaii and while I’m in that part of the world I can look around and research and find out what’s going on under the surface and bring this life-giving knowledge back to NZ to aid us all. What a sweet excuse that sounds.

        • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.2

          “Humans can grow food in a wide range of climates.”

          A true statement. No-one has yet worked out how to get high crop yields from deserts.

          • weka 28.1.1.2.1

            We don’t need high yield crops, unless we want to run food production as commodities through a capitalist model. What we need is produce food that people eat and sustains them, and that can be done in a desert. Humans have been living in deserts for a very long time.
             
             
             

            • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.2.1.1

              Well sure, apart from the fact that this scenario involves mass starvation before the new equilibrium is reached. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

              • weka

                You seem to think we have a choice about that. Which is ironic, given I am the one arguing for better use of the resources we have eg improving food security rather than doing space exploration.
                 
                The way we feed the world now is unsustainable. Even if peak oil weren’t in the picture we would be facing some serious problems from the loss of topsoil which is a direct result of modern farming practices (other cultures have lost arable land through farming practices too but they tend to do it over a much long time period and with less population pressure). We can’t keep doing what we are doing and increase population and go to space. 
                 
                We have a window of opportunity here, one that is rapidly shrinking. I understand the excitement and inspiration people feel about the mars landing. I just don’t see how that stacks up against the future we are facing. Yes we need inspiration, but only crazy people value that over survival needs.
                 
                http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/feb/14/science.environment
                 
                Note the date on that article. It’s not like we haven’t been warned.

                • Kotahi Tāne Huna

                  I am under no illusions about “choice”. I think the “window of opportunity” has closed. Adaptation is now far more important than mitigation, and with that in mind, NASA will have a very important role to play.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Which is ironic, given I am the one arguing for better use of the resources we have eg improving food security rather than doing space exploration.

                  The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Farming allows the population to be fed at a sustainable level using only a small fraction of the population which leaves people and resources available to do other things such as space exploration.

                  The big problem with food security is over population and increasing food production actually increases the over population. This is why it’s important that we find out just what the carrying capacity of the Earth and individual nations is and then communicate that to the individuals that make up those nations with the information about how to limit population growth (contraception, abortion etc). But even doing that would still leave enough resources to support a space program.

                  • prism

                    DTB
                    Space program – an expensive way for men to get far away from mundane tasks of being with family, doing the dishes and mowing the lawn.

            • prism 28.1.1.2.1.2

              weka
              I guess you have come across these names that have stayed in my memory as inspiring and achieving people in environmental matters.
              – Richard St Barbe Baker is a name to think of and here is link of one project – http://www.menofthetrees.com.au/
              In his retirement he lived in NZ till his death I think.

              Also – Wendy Campbell-Purdie is a name that should be known.
              http://www.primitivism.com/tree-of-life.htm
              She worked on the fringe of a desert planting trees that could handle the conditions and were strong growers and then crops under the shade of their canopies so there was less evaporation. She was very successful to get a working system established in a male-oriented area and rather corrupt political system.

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  • RCEP trade deal risks repeating TPPA mistakes
    The lesson from the demise of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) should have been that it is time to re-think this type of so-called trade agreement. But despite warnings from internationally-recognised experts, there are more secretive “trade” negotiations happening this ...
    GreensBy Barry Coates
    37 mins ago
  • Education for All?
    This year I have been focused on getting a better deal for kids and families with learning needs such as dyslexia, dyspraxia, and autism spectrum. We had a Select Committee inquiry into the issues faced, but the Government was too ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 hours ago
  • Economy must deliver a fair go for New Zealanders
    The latest Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) provides further evidence that the economy that the National Government and Bill English have is sitting on shifting sands and leaves many people behind, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says today. ...
    1 day ago
  • A Billion Better Things
    Earlier this week I posed some questions to Finance Minister Bill English about his support for the government’s plan to spend a billion dollars on a new prison. I was pretty disappointed in his answers, all of which flew in the face of his own ...
    GreensBy David Clendon
    1 day ago
  • Govt already in ‘holiday mode’ on $2.3b owed to Kiwi workers
    The Government is dragging its feet while working New Zealanders are still missing up to $2.3 billion collectively owed to them through underpaid holiday pay entitlements, Labour’s Economic Development spokesperson David Clark says. “The cover was blown on this issue ...
    1 day ago
  • Why is New Zealand still the exception on deposit protection?
    I took the opportunity to question the Reserve Bank Governor, Graeme Wheeler, about New Zealand’s lack of deposit protection in front of the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee in Parliament yesterday. Why does the Reserve Bank continue to oppose protecting ...
    GreensBy James Shaw
    1 day ago
  • Statement on proposed United Nations role
    “There has been a high degree of media interest in New Zealand about a possible post with the United Nations. “My name has been proposed to the United Nations Secretary General to be his Special Representative in South Sudan. ...
    1 day ago
  • David Shearer proposed for UN peacekeeping role
    Mt Albert MP David Shearer is being proposed for a demanding and exciting role heading the United Nations peacekeeping force in South Sudan, says Labour Leader Andrew Little. “David has kept me fully informed about this opportunity and we are ...
    1 day ago
  • Karori Kids and Campbell Kindergarten must be saved
    The Minister of Education needs to show some leadership and secure the future of two not-for-profit early childhood education centres that could be faced with closure as the land they sit on is up for sale, Grant Robertson Labour MP ...
    1 day ago
  • Ministry reveals shocking charter school results
    NCEA results for charter schools have been massively overstated with documents revealing many students leaving school without basic NCEA level two qualifications despite this being a main educational target for the Government, says Labour Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins.  “Documents obtained ...
    1 day ago
  • Minister must protect MSD staff
      The Minister of Social Development should immediately implement safer work practices to ensure tragedies such as the Ashburton killings don’t happen again, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni.   ...
    2 days ago
  • A vote for the Māori Party is a vote for National
    Comments made by the Māori Party leadership in the wake of John Key’s surprise resignation make one thing clear: a vote for them is a vote for a fourth term National Government, and the increasing inequality and poverty for Māori ...
    2 days ago
  • Collins and English split over police funding
    The bloodletting has already begun with splits and divisions emerging after the Police Minister knifed the Finance Minister via the media, says Labour Police spokesman Stuart Nash. ...
    2 days ago
  • Next Prime Minister must tackle foreign speculators
    The public rightly puts much of the blame for the housing bubble at the feet of foreign speculators, and the next Prime Minister must listen to their concerns, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 days ago
  • NZ student performance slips in international study – again
    The continuing fall in Kiwi kids’ performance in the OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) study shows the damage being inflicted by National’s cuts to education and one-size-fits-all approach, says Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins. “For years, National has ...
    2 days ago
  • CYF reforms dangerous backward step
    Child protection has taken a massive step backwards today with the Government passing a Bill that will give significant powers to unspecified ‘professionals’ or contract holders, says Labour’s Acting Children’s spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. ...
    3 days ago
  • Improve workplaces, and address domestic violence
    Last week the Productivity Commission put out a report about how to grow “weak labour productivity”. These views are being criticised as being straight out of the 1980s. What is a real problem is that we have a problem of ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    3 days ago
  • Palm oil industry implicated in human rights abuses
    The Green Party has campaigned for several years for mandatory palm oil labeling to give consumers choice. Most consumers do not want to support a palm oil industry that is destroying tropical rainforests and contributing to dangerous climate change emissions. ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    3 days ago
  • Syphilis on the rise in NZ
    Cases of syphilis are increasing in Auckland. You read that right, syphilis!  RNZ reported today that rates of syphilis have increased by 71 percent (between 2013-2015). We have known about the increase in syphilis figures for a while, but nothing ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter
    4 days ago
  • We need to work smarter not longer
    The charade of this Government’s sound economic management is unraveling. Misleading GDP figures, pumped up by property speculation and high immigration, have given the impression that all is well, masking our continued productivity decline compared to OECD countries. In fact, ...
    GreensBy Barry Coates
    4 days ago
  • Statement on John Key’s resignation
    Labour Party Leader Andrew Little has acknowledged John Key’s contribution to Government.  “John Key has served New Zealand generously and with dedication. Although we may have had our policy differences over the years, I respect the Prime Minister’s decision to ...
    4 days ago
  • Positive plan secures victory
    The victory of Labour’s newest MP, Michael Wood, in Mt Roskill is the result of a well-organised campaign run with honesty and integrity, says Labour Leader Andrew Little. “I congratulate Michael Wood on his great victory. He will be a ...
    6 days ago
  • Wave of support for Kiwibuild continues to grow
    Apartment builder Ockham Residential has become the latest voice to call for the government to build affordable homes for Kiwi families to buy, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Helen O'Sullivan of Ockham has now joined prominent businesspeople like EMA ...
    7 days ago
  • Cuba Si Yankee No – Fidel Castro and the Revolution
    The death of Fidel Castro is a huge historical moment for the older generation who grew up with the toppling of Batista, the Bay of Pigs debacle, the death of Che Guevara and the US blockade against Cuba. For younger ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Government slashes observer coverage, fails snapper fishery
    The Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) has more than halved the number of fisheries observers in the East Coast North Island snapper trawl fishery (SNA1). This reduction in observer days, combined with major failures in an unproven and controversial video ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    1 week ago
  • ‘Exemplar’ Māori Land Court under siege
    TheMāori Land Court, hailed as an “exemplar” by the Ministry of Justice chief executive and Secretary, Andrew Bridgman is under siege by the Government through Māori land reforms and a Ministry restructure, says Labour’s Ikaroa-Rāwhiti MP Meka Whaitiri. ...
    1 week ago
  • He Poroporoaki ki a Te Awanuiārangi Black
    Kua hinga he whatukura o Tauranga Moana. Kua hinga rangatira o te iwi Māori. Ka tangi tonu ana te ngākau nā tāna wehe kei tua o te ārai. E rere haere ana ngā mihi aroha o mātou o Te Rōpū ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • CYF reforms ignoring whānau based solution
    When approximately 60 per cent of children in state care are Māori processes need to change in favour of whānau, hapū and iwi solutions, said Labour’s Whānau Ora spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta.  “Widespread concern about Government reforms of Child Youth and ...
    1 week ago
  • Hip and knees surgery takes a tumble
    The statistics for hip and knee electives under this Government make depressing reading, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King.  “Under the last Labour Government we achieved a 91 per cent growth in hip and knee elective surgery. Sadly under this ...
    1 week ago
  • Parata’s spin can’t hide cuts to early childhood education
    No amount of spin from Hekia Parata can hide the fact that per-child funding for early childhood education has been steadily decreasing under the National government, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “In the 2009/10 year early childhood services received ...
    1 week ago
  • Nats will jump at chance to vote for KiwiBuild Bill
    National will welcome the chance to vote for a real solution to the housing crisis after their many, many failed attempts, says Labour MP for Te Tai Tokerau Kelvin Davis. Kelvin Davis’s Housing Corporation (Affordable Housing Development) Amendment Bill was ...
    1 week ago
  • Million dollar houses put homeownership out of reach of middle New Zealand
    35% of New Zealanders now live in places where the average house costs over a million dollars, and it’s killing the Kiwi dream of owning your own place, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. Latest QV stats show that Queenstown ...
    1 week ago
  • Opportunity for political parties to back Kiwi-made and Kiwi jobs
    The First Reading in Parliament today of his Our Work, Our Future Bill is a chance for political parties to ensure the government buys Kiwi-made more often and backs Kiwi jobs, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. The reading ...
    1 week ago
  • Solid Energy must open the drift
    Solid Energy is showing no moral spine and should not have any legal right to block re-entry into the Pike River drift, says Damien O’Connor MP for West Coast-Tasman.  “Todays failed meeting with  representatives from the state owned company is ...
    1 week ago
  • 20,000 at risk students “missing”
    A briefing to the Minister of Education reveals 20,000 at-risk students can’t be found, undermining claims by Hekia Parata that a new funding model would ensure additional funding reached students identified as at-risk, says Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins. ...
    1 week ago
  • Crime continues to rise
    Overall crime is up five per cent and the Government just doesn’t seem to care, says Labour’s Police Spokesperson Stuart Nash. ...
    1 week ago
  • Treasury fritters $10 million on failed state house sell off
    The Treasury has wasted $10 million in two years on the National Government's flawed state house sell off programme, including nearly $5.5 million on consultants, says Labour Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. "New Zealand needs more state housing than ever, with ...
    1 week ago
  • National slow to learn new trade lessons post TPPA
    Yesterday, the Minister for Trade misused economic data in order to try to make the case for more so-called ‘trade agreements’ like the TPPA which are actually deregulatory straitjackets in disguise. In welcoming a Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade ...
    GreensBy Barry Coates
    1 week ago
  • Skilled migrant wages plummeting under National
    Wages have plummeted for people with skilled migrant visas working in low-skilled occupations, driving down wages for workers in a number of industries, says Labour’s Immigration Spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway. “Documents acquired by Labour under the Official Information Act reveal that ...
    1 week ago
  • Child abuse apology needed
    The Government's failure to act on recommendations from Judge Henwood, based on years of work by the Confidential Listening and Assistance Service (CLAS) will further undermine any faith victims may have put into the process, says Labour’s Children’s Spokesperson Jacinda ...
    1 week ago
  • Reserve Bank again highlights National’s housing failure
    National’s failure to deal with the housing crisis in New Zealand is once again being exposed by the Reserve Bank today, in a scathing assessment of the Government’s response, says Labour Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson “Governor Wheeler is clearly worried ...
    1 week ago
  • Palm Oil Labelling: Possible Progress?
    On Friday, the Minister for Food Safety, along with her Australian colleagues finally looked at the issue of mandatory labelling of palm oil. We’ve been calling for mandatory labelling for years and we were hoping that the Ministers would agree ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    1 week ago
  • National: Fails to achieve
    The ineffectiveness of the National Government’s approach to schooling has been highlighted by the latest Trends in International Maths and Science Study (TIMSS) report released overnight, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. ...
    1 week ago
  • Faster into Homes – a new pathway for first home buyers
    This week Parliament will select another members’ bill from the cookie tin (I kid you not, it really is a cookie tin) and I’ve just launched a new bill I’m hoping will get pulled – to help people get into ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    1 week ago
  • Selling off our state housing stock isn’t working for NZers
    I want to end homelessness and ensure that everyone has a warm, safe, dry home. This National Government has let down New Zealanders, especially the thousands of New Zealanders who are struggling with something so basic and important as housing. ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • Government needs to ensure fair deal on EQC assessments
    Kiwis affected by earthquakes might not get a fair deal if the Government pushes ahead with secret plans to let private insurers take over the assessment of claims, says Labour’s Canterbury spokesperson Megan Woods. “Under questioning from Labour the Government ...
    1 week ago
  • Key’s priorities the real ‘load of nonsense’
    The Prime Minister’s fixation with tax cuts, despite a failure to pay down any debt and growing pressure on public services is the real ‘load of nonsense’, says Labour Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson.  “We’re getting mixed messages from National. John ...
    1 week ago
  • Free Speech and Hate Speech
    Last week we were very concerned to hear that an Auckland imam, Dr Anwar Sahib, had been preaching divisive and derogatory messages about Jewish people and women during his sermons. It was a disturbing incident coming at the end of ...
    GreensBy James Shaw
    1 week ago
  • Young Kiwis struggling under record mortgage debt
    The Government needs to step in and start building affordable homes for first homebuyers now more than ever, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. ...
    1 week ago
  • Tairāwhiti says No Stat Oil!
    Tairāwhiti says yes to a clean environment for our mokopuna today and for generations to come. Tairāwhiti are have a responsibility to uphold their mana motuhake over their land and their peoples and are calling on the Government to honour ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    2 weeks ago