Cynical Key

Written By: - Date published: 11:31 pm, September 24th, 2012 - 134 comments
Categories: accountability, john key, Spying - Tags: ,

So Key knew about the GCSB’s ‘unlawful’ actions for a week before he bothered to tell us.

He happened to know that this Monday state owned companies would be announcing they were causing the loss of 500-600 jobs (including contractors).  A terrible story for the economy.

Only one story would get its full due of airtime.

He had to tell us about the GCSB illegality before the next court appearance in a couple of days.  He could have been upfront and honest and told us 1 week ago, straight after calling in the Inspector-General.  But no, he wanted to hide his complete lack of oversight.  His complete loss of control of his department.

The investigation into whether his “don’t read, don’t care” philosophy went beyond Banks to his oversight of important national security issues.

Then it became clear it would come out.  So then it was a matter of when to slip the bad news out.  And before you can say “Media Management 101” it’s scheduled Monday afternoon in the middle of the job loss announcements.

Cynical.

134 comments on “Cynical Key ”

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  1. Colonial Viper 1
    24 September 2012 at 11:37 pm

    So who has the counter media strategy. Anyone? Anyone?

    • Bunji 1.1
      24 September 2012 at 11:55 pm

      a) call him on it
      b) having multiple opposition parties actually works quite well for this – different parties can choose to push more on either job losses / govt sending economy down tube or John Key, crap minister that isn’t safe as head of National Security…

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1
        25 September 2012 at 12:37 am

        But who in NZ still believes that it is the Government’s duty to keep people employed in these tough economic times? Surely sensible belt tightening is in order? Especially when the for-profit businesses that they work in (and that Labour set up that way) are under financial pressure?

        You see, this is why Labour has no show of getting traction.

        • infused 1.1.1.1
          25 September 2012 at 7:20 am

          Pretty much.

        • muzza 1.1.1.2
          25 September 2012 at 7:49 am

          As I posted yesterday, why now, and where is the pressure coming from….I guess thats been cleared up. This is our politics, our country being mocked by “our representatives”, in front of our eyes! Spew worthy frankly! This bad joke of a PM should have the parliament floor wiped with him repeatedly, but it wont happen, again!

          Viper you must have seen the state of Aucklands roads works 20 years or more and the place still looks like its under contruction…Someone is making off like a bandit with all the contracts they must be getting…I sometime wonder if that is part of keeping people in some sort of work, or it is only the collateral that must be used to make the big contracts useful.

          Waiting for the day someone in parliant will just let it rip for the sake of the public, and stuff protocol, just tear into it and spill the beans on the inner goings on of our fucken joke of a governmnet, and opposition!

          Waiting…..

        • Dr Terry 1.1.1.3
          25 September 2012 at 10:39 am

          CV. Yes, “sensible” (the crucial word) belt tightening may be in order, providing it happens across the board. But the intelligent know too well that the belt-tightening is targeted toward the already poor, precariously employed workers, beneficiaries, children, youth, everybody on the “lower rung” of society. I would love to hear from you the exact nature of your personal belt-tightening.

      • David H 1.1.2
        25 September 2012 at 10:11 am

        Well there’s less than nothing about it on the MSM sites or if there is it’s pretty well hidden. And yes again a silent Well this afternoon in the house should let us know but i won’t hold my breath.

        • freedom 1.1.2.1
          25 September 2012 at 12:02 pm

          any bets on how many opportunities to discover the truth this afternoon will be lost through the lack of clear single part questions from the opposition ?

        • Populuxe1 1.1.2.2
          25 September 2012 at 3:47 pm

          Ahem, the post cites Stuff, which is as MSM as you can get.

  2. blue leopard 2
    25 September 2012 at 12:23 am

    Cheers Bunji, I really appreciate being alerted to these tactics, thank you. Hope the opposition parties do the same to the general public. 🙁

  3. Mary 3
    25 September 2012 at 12:40 am

    Just a shame Shearer’s too stupid to call it. Should’ve seen his ‘reactions’ to things today. The guy’s a liability.

    • David H 3.1
      25 September 2012 at 10:15 am

      Makes you wonder if the deafness the govt has, has infected the Labour caucus as well FFS get rid of Shearer, and put Cunliffe in or lose the next election.

    • Dr Terry 3.2
      25 September 2012 at 10:40 am

      Oh, did Shearer actually react? I must have missed it!

  4. mike 4
    25 September 2012 at 12:59 am

    Another week another revelation of shonkeyness from this govt, and another announcement of hundreds of jobs to be axed, (it’s a good thing Key promised 170,000 new jobs, phew!).

    This case just get more and more strange. So now we are to believe that the GCSB has gone rogue and skipped getting the permission it needed from Key. Akshully they just do what the FBI tells them to do.

    Key: “On the explanation I have at the moment, it was a mistake, an error, but that’s now subject to an inquiry.”

    Right. Whoopsie! We forgot to get the Prime Minister’s permission! That was silly of us wasn’t it!

    I’m more inclined to believe that this was one of those pieces of paper that Key decided not to read. After all, he’s got a got a history of that sort of thing.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1
      25 September 2012 at 1:34 am

      Maybe Labour will get some traction in the polls next week then. You reckon?

    • tracey 4.2
      25 September 2012 at 7:24 am

      Be fair, he was busy reading all the ns data…

    • mike e 4.3
      25 September 2012 at 10:24 am

      its just like the nz herald they seem to be in the loop as well

    • Dr Terry 4.4
      25 September 2012 at 10:44 am

      Most incredible of all is that Key would have us believe such a thing was a “mistake”! How do you “mistakenly” set up a surveillance system?

      • mike e 4.4.1
        25 September 2012 at 11:11 am

        RNZ this morning GSCB may have started monitoring Kim Dotcom before he was a citizen and carried on after!
        But no doubt they would have needed permission from KEY!

        • Fortran 4.4.1.1
          25 September 2012 at 1:55 pm

          mike e

          If Dotcom was not a New Zealand Citizen at the time of the intercepts (which is plausible) then Key would not be required to sign anything.
          If they knew he was a New Zealand Citizen at the time, then the SIS would have been involved instead and he would have to approve a warrant.

          • mike e 4.4.1.1.1
            25 September 2012 at 2:01 pm

            Fatrain your an example of new research that conservatism requires low effort low intelligence thinking!
            The prime minister is supposed to sign off any interceptions that’s why the prime mincer is having an enquiry!

          • Te Reo Putake 4.4.1.1.2
            25 September 2012 at 2:07 pm

            Fortran, the SIS looks after domestic spying and requires the PM’s signature if the target is a Kiwi citizen or (as in Dotcom’s case) a resident. The GCSB is supposed to be working on offshore intelligence only.

          • lprent 4.4.1.1.3
            25 September 2012 at 8:51 pm

            If Dotcom was not a New Zealand Citizen at the time of the intercepts

            He is not a NZ citizen now (please take some time to catch up.. This isn’t kiwiblog and being willfully stupid usually marks you out for my moderating attention as a probable troll).

            He has however been a NZ resident since for a while – 2010.

            However the GCSB appear to have continued doing surveillance on him after that residency was granted which would be illegal. It was not handed it over to the SIS as they should have. Now that gets interesting as the PM is the minister on both. But it appears that he has no idea of what the agencies he is meant he is meant to be overseeing are breaking laws.

            Why does that not seem to surprise anyone? Because they know he is incompetent at doing anything important?

            • McFlock 4.4.1.1.3.1
              25 September 2012 at 9:28 pm

              Be fair: he hasn’t read the job description for PM, so can’t be blamed for being incompetent.
                 
              His nose is getting nicely rosy, though. I wonder if he’ll follow in Muldoon’s  “schnapps election” footsteps.

    • Dr Terry 4.5
      25 September 2012 at 10:48 am

      Most incredible of all is that Key would have us believe such a thing was a “mistake”! How do you “mistakenly” set up a surveillance system for a very well known public figure? Spare us from such future “mistakes”! He sure is careful NEVER to accept personal responsibility for anything. The most memorable saying of the late President Truman was “the buck stops here”.

      • Populuxe1 4.5.1
        25 September 2012 at 3:59 pm

        Well known public figure? Few outside of Auckland knew he even existed and even then were unlikely to retain the information.

        • mike e 4.5.1.1
          25 September 2012 at 4:16 pm

          Popuganda yeah right!
          The fireworks display the grovelling media circus stalking and showing off his massive mansion

          • Populuxe1 4.5.1.1.1
            25 September 2012 at 4:23 pm

            I am amazed how much you overestimate the attention span of the general public and the MSM. 
            Had you heard of Alan Hubbard prior to the collapse of South Canterbury Finance? I doubt it.
            By the way, I think “mistake” here is a political euphemism for “bad judgement call, we really screwed the pooch on that one”

            • mike e 4.5.1.1.1.1
              25 September 2012 at 5:19 pm

              Fuck off pop I’ve met Alan Hubbard you idiot he was idolised up an down the country for being a down to earth VW driving old fashion businessman!
              Who incidentaly was probably suffering from dementia when his company was high jacked by a fraudulent CEO!

            • felix 4.5.1.1.1.2
              25 September 2012 at 10:09 pm

              “I am amazed how much you overestimate the attention span of the general public and the MSM.”

              Who’s talking about the general public? This is the Prime Fucking Minister and the Government Fucking Communications Security Bureau.

        • Colonial Viper 4.5.1.2
          25 September 2012 at 9:32 pm

          Well known public figure? Few outside of Auckland knew he even existed and even then were unlikely to retain the information.

          About 1/3 of Queen St is still owned by South Islanders.

        • felix 4.5.1.3
          25 September 2012 at 10:15 pm

          Prop, even if that were true, which it definitely isn’t – in fact even if no-one outside of Auckland had ever heard of him – that would still be irrelevant to the question of whether he could be called a “public figure”.

          Do you have any idea how few people live outside of Auckland?

  5. higherstandard 5
    25 September 2012 at 6:51 am

    It was a classic ‘yes Prime Minister’ play.

    Talking of which here’s another that might be put into action.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeF_o1Ss1NQ&feature=relmfu

  6. tracey 6
    25 September 2012 at 7:22 am

    Interestingly the pm today said ignorance was dangerous, or something similar about ns data. Ignorance is obviously crucial to the sis.

    Why didnt shearer or anyone call the pm on this ignorance thing, afterall the data shows nothing new unless you wilfully ignored all data for the last twenty years while you dreamed of being pm…

    Of course now they have the data how will te govt spin their lack of action/ funding to address the results?

  7. Poission 7
    25 September 2012 at 7:30 am

    Crown lawyers have been aware of this for a month,whether they informed the Attorney general is the Question that needs to be asked.Did Finlayson know?.

  8. Logie97 8
    25 September 2012 at 7:31 am

    Those “assurances at the time” are becoming less and less credible.

    . Transrail shares
    . 1981
    . Lord Ashcroft
    . Blind trusts
    . Banks
    . Dotcom

    Who knows, maybe a party will run an election campaign on “Trust”. Now there’s a novel idea. (It certainly won’t be NACT.)

    • The Woodpecker 8.1
      25 September 2012 at 7:57 am

      Standard and poors downgrade.

    • muzza 8.2
      25 September 2012 at 7:57 am

      When foreign entities control our political parties, and hence our MP’s, then trust is only a word, like transparency, and brighter future which are lies.

      The only way NZ will have MPs it might be able to trust, is if every day people take take a very active role in politics, and that means no more parties, not the legacy anyway!

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1
        25 September 2012 at 11:40 am

        The only way NZ will have MPs it might be able to trust, is if every day people take take a very active role in politics, and that means no more parties, not the legacy anyway!

        Although I agree with the first parts I disagree with the last. ATM, Getting politically active means joining a political party. If you don’t do that then you can’t have any influence.

    • David H 8.3
      25 September 2012 at 10:26 am

      At the moment they could point to all that they have done, have Key give a sickly grin and still fuckin win!

  9. tracey 9
    25 September 2012 at 8:02 am

    Its ok, no one lied, key is always aspiring, which means you never have to achieve anything, and we are not achieving anything so ergo he tells the truth…

    • David H 9.1
      25 September 2012 at 10:30 am

      But Key knows he can get away with it, Whats Shearer going to say? Have you got faith in all your fellow thieves? FFS

  10. karol 10
    25 September 2012 at 8:04 am

    And Key fangirl, Tracy Watkins has labelled the Megaupload case a “Keystone Cops” farce.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/tracy-watkins/7724194/Megaupload-saga-resembles-Keystone-Cops

    Does she realise she’s handed the opposition a great line? Can’t wait for someone to do a photo-mashup!

    NB: I have a new look, but I sound the same – the k just gives me a bit of distinction.

  11. Brian 11
    25 September 2012 at 8:29 am

    And Key suggests the redundants should seek employment in the IT industry…. the man really is on another planet.

  12. tracey 12
    25 September 2012 at 8:33 am

    Oh i dont know, there are times i want to put a pick ax through my pc screen

  13. tc 13
    25 September 2012 at 8:42 am

    And in the Dim post one Richard Long declaring the Banks has survived the donations saga….being purely objective of course with some healthy doses of wishful thinking. Yet another nat shill getting column space to peddle the lines.

  14. Treetop 14
    25 September 2012 at 9:32 am

    19 January 2012 Key is put in the loop regarding the Dotcom raid on 20 January 2012. It takes Key (minister of National Security) until 17 September 2012 to become aware that the GCSB acted unlawfully. For sure Key has been on Planet Key as he alleges he was not aware of (unlawful spying) when it comes to a high profile case.

    Systemic failure once again between the police and the government security intelligence services.

    • karol 14.1
      25 September 2012 at 9:45 am

      There was just a couple of must hear interviews on Nine-to-Noon (not yet online) with Paul Buchanan and Nicky Hager:

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20120925

      PS: now online:

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2533588/government-communications-security-bureau-investigated.asx

      Buchanan reckons the police were trying to please the FBI & called in GCSB. He reckons the police will take the blame for the errors.The FBI will be able to continue their case, but the evidence gathered by GCSB will be inadmissible. The outcome may or may not impact on NZ’s obligations to deport.

      Hager reckons this highlights the problem with the lack of accountability of the GCSB (and SIS). They are set up to operate in secret, and say “Trust us: we have sound systems”. They only have oversight from the PM, who is too busy to pay enough attention to their daily activities. He reckons it’ll take a strong, motivated and independent government to change it. He reckons the GCSB operates largely to do work for overseas interests and especially are closer to the US than any other NZ agency.

      There are still questions about whether the GG was head of GCSB when the surveillance was authorised 2010 to early 2011.

      Hager also thinks it is possible Key did know about the surveillance earlier than he is letting on – but the problem is we may never know the truth.

      • Treetop 14.1.1
        25 September 2012 at 9:52 am

        Thanks for this info I will follow it up.

        • Anne 14.1.1.1
          25 September 2012 at 10:40 am

          Yes that was very interesting – Paul Buchanan’s summation in particular.

          It should be pointed out that Kim Dotcom is wrong when he makes the comparison between the CIA and the GCSB. The actual equivalent is the NSA – National Security Agency.

          .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

          • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1.1
            25 September 2012 at 11:20 am

            Ahhhh the NSA. They’ve just put absolutely massive resources into being able to intercept and permanently store EVERY single phone call, txt, and email sent in the USA by its own citizens and by anyone conducting business there.

            http://www.zerohedge.com/news/nsa-whistleblower-speaks-live-government-lying-you

            • Populuxe1 14.1.1.1.1.1
              25 September 2012 at 3:56 pm

              Aside from most service providers doing that anyway in one form or another – thus only being a subpoena away – I find it nigh on impossible to believe that an NSA would be permitted to go into such details about data acquisition without serious repercussions. And computers aren’t magic – there are limits to the amount of data they can recognise and sort though. Smells fishy to me.

              • Colonial Viper …
                25 September 2012 at 10:28 pm

                And computers aren’t magic – there are limits to the amount of data they can recognise and sort though. Smells fishy to me.

                This is a 10 ha, $2B data interception centre, ready to roll end of 2013. It is designed to far exceed their previous capability of intercepting and recording 320M calls per day.

                http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1

                • terryg …
                  26 September 2012 at 6:14 am

                  indeed. there was an interesting article on Ars Technica (IIRC) a while back, that made the point that hard-drives have evolved to the point (capacity & cost) that not only is it feasible to record everything, its feasible to keep it forever. (for appropriate values of “everything” and “forever”). including things like surveillance video.

                  And of course big data sets have long been an active research topic (LHC for example), and data mining is becoming ubiquitous. Moores law has finally enabled big brother. yikes.

                  • lprent …
                    26 September 2012 at 6:25 am

                    There are some definite limits with current tech. Says the person who moved data from two dying terabyte drives in a RAID 1 this weekend. It takes so frigging long and the drives have pretty short lives. Same reason the site was down ? last week ? for most of a day. As the volumes increase the maintenance nightmare and power requirements increases geometrically. We need storage media with longer lives especially for video.

                    Turns out that my OS requires about 6GB with all of the multi architectures and tools. Feels pretty weird when my current target platform puts everything into 300mb including a 80mb geographic info file.

                    Everything else I have requires less than 150GB. Video for non programming projects makes up the rest of the terabytes of data.

                    Starting to move to SSDs. I figure that despite the smaller capacities and higher prices, they will last longer.

          • BernyD 14.1.1.1.2
            25 September 2012 at 11:28 am

            I wonder If they are looking for a real spy, should get my CV together.
            About 20 pages of blackedout blocks filled in with felt pen should do it 😛

  15. Jokerman 15
    25 September 2012 at 9:39 am

    “Prime Minister of Intelligence; Not So Intelligent”

    (just loaded)

    • Treetop 15.1
      25 September 2012 at 9:49 am

      What do you think happens when the prime minister is not intelligent, the country goes to the dogs. Just take a good look around at the performance of the police, national security, Work and Income, ACC, the health and education system, housing, poverty and people with high skills being laid off…

    • mike e 15.2
      25 September 2012 at 4:26 pm

      Johnkey English bungling super spy.
      Mr bean brained bean counter intelligence!

  16. captain hook 16
    25 September 2012 at 9:41 am

    Kweewee thinks he has a “BLANK CHEQUE” to do whatever he likes.
    His vocabulary is so limited that words like democracy are new discoverys.

  18. Dv 18
    25 September 2012 at 10:50 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836388

    English knew about Dotcom spies

    Mr Key said this morning Mr English had signed a Ministerial Certificate to confirm the Government Communications Security Bureau was involved in the case in his capacity as acting Prime Minister while Mr Key was overseas.

    BUT isn’t this is retrospective permission for an illegal act.

    It was ell known that dot com was a nz resident at that time.

    Bizzarre

  19. Pascal's bookie 19
    25 September 2012 at 10:52 am

    RadioLIVE Newsroom ‏@LIVENewsDesk

    Labour says Bill English signed an indemnity order making NZ liable for any damages case taken by Kim Dotcom over unlawful spying by GCSB

    https://twitter.com/LIVENewsDesk/status/250362662532284416

  20. Pascal's bookie 20
    25 September 2012 at 10:53 am

    More on that here:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836388

    Mr Key said this morning Mr English had signed a Ministerial Certificate to confirm the Government Communications Security Bureau was involved in the case in his capacity as acting Prime Minister while Mr Key was overseas.

    That was back in August after Police were questioned about it in court by Dotcom’s lawyers during last month’s trial into the legality of the raids.

    At the time, Mr Key was in the United States watching his son play baseball.

    Mr Key said Mr English had not told him about it and at the time, Mr English had believed the GCSB’s involvement was lawful – it was only discovered after that that the GCSB had acted beyond their lawful powers because Mr Dotcom and his acquaintances were New Zealand residents.

    • karol 20.1
      25 September 2012 at 10:58 am

      Ha! Thanks. And we wondered at the time why Key suddenly felt it necessary to go to his son’s baseball game – 10 August 2011. Plausible dependability?

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7450343/Key-defends-hard-call-to-miss-service

    • freedom 20.2
      25 September 2012 at 11:01 am

      one would think spending 10 million bucks for NZ residency would mean the i’s get dotted and some t’s get crossed. Instead it seems the lies get spotted and the truth gets lost.

    • deuto 20.3
      25 September 2012 at 12:00 pm

      Stuff now has their article up on Bill English’s signing of a document which provides some more interesting details

      But Key admitted today English was alerted to the involvement of spooks in August, while acting prime minister. Key was in the US watching teenage son Max compete in a baseball tournament.

      The role of the secretive GCSB began to unravel when Dotcom’s lawyer Paul Davison asked for the identity of mystery individuals at a meeting before police and FBI agents raided the entrepreneur’s Coatesville mansion in January.

      After the court hearing English signed a ‘ministerial certificate’ – an administrative document – relating to the court case.

      Neither Key nor English can recall the exact date. But Key left for a ten-day trip on on August 9 – the same day the mysterious group was first revealed in court.

      ”There was a ministerial certificate that was signed. That’s another technical issue, I haven’t actually seen the paper work on that, that would have indicated that the bureau was involved,” Key said this morning.

      ”A ministerial certificate is in relation to information about whether the bureau has acted, because a court, or someone might ask, for that information. So, it’s essentially a suppression order.”

      Both the GCSB and English were unaware at the time that the covert eavesdropping was illegal. GCSB were alerted five days before Key – there was a delay in briefing him because director Ian Fletcher was overseas.

      The bugging is believed to have taken place under former head Simon Murdoch, who was director of GCSB between July 1 2011 and December 19 2011.

      Bolding is mine.

      The apparent timing of the bugging is interesting in that it predates KDC’s getting NZ residency.

      The timing of the signing of the ministerial certificate is also interesting – ie seems to be a (panic?) reaction to what came out in court; but again we have both English and Key are playing dumb on when the signing took place. And Key calling it a suppression order? What the f..k?

      The video is also worth watching – Key looking very uncomfortable, followed by Shearer speaking very clearly and well for once.

      • deuto 20.3.1
        25 September 2012 at 12:37 pm

        “The apparent timing of the bugging is interesting in that it predates KDC’s getting NZ residency.”

        Ooops, got the wrong year – got residency in Dec 2010 not 2011, so he was a NZ resident at the apparent time of the bugging.

  21. Jackal 21
    25 September 2012 at 11:27 am

    Rogue spies or coverup at the highest level?

    In trying to say there is no warrant, Key is expecting us to believe that the entire chain of command has failed, and the GCSB is acting like a rogue agency, which goes far beyond it being a simple “disappointing mistake” by the Director Ian Fletcher. If the entire chain of command has failed because of gross incompetence, John Key as the Minister in charge is responsible…

  22. HG 22
    25 September 2012 at 11:49 am

    As Andrea Vance wrote in her DomPost article this morning Key “was unable to make public the breach until a memorandum was filed with the High Court yesterday”.

  23. handle 23
    25 September 2012 at 11:57 am

    Last week a certain US Defence chief visited. Might affect the timing?

    • Mary 24.1
      25 September 2012 at 1:40 pm

      Key’s got that look on when he’s lying. Key just must’ve known. Nobody would keep that information from him, whether it was the GCSB, English, anyone. Key’s lying. Somebody needs to expose it. That would be so much fun to see.

  25. captain hook 25
    25 September 2012 at 12:04 pm

    they aint to good at what they do.
    watching too much televison.
    gcsb in noo noo land.

  26. Poission 26
    25 September 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Oh dear Oh dear its worse then we thought,

    RNZ reports Bill English Knew in August,and signed ministerial suppression warrant (and indemnified Dotcom for liability ) definitely an orchestrated litany of Spies.

  27. captain hook 27
    25 September 2012 at 12:16 pm

    so Bill English has been watching too much television too?
    and tra daaaa…
    keystone cops!

  28. Tracey 28
    25 September 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Ah but did English actually read what he signed? Doesn’t not reading make it null and void, accountability-wise?

  29. felix 29
    25 September 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Does John Key not have a mobile phone?

    Shouldn’t the PM on NZ be provided with one?

  30. gobsmacked 30
    25 September 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Suggested Qs for the opposition this afternoon …

    “When the PM said last week “I don’t run”, did he actually mean that he doesn’t run the government?”

    “When the PM said his favourite movie is “Johnny English”, was that a tribute to his deputy? Does the PM regard that film as a comedy, or a training manual?”

    “If Kim Dotcom is the James Bond villain, is John Banks Miss Moneypenny?”

    “How many meetings or conversations has he had with the Deputy PM in the six weeks since the warrant was signed?”

    etc, etc …

    But above all – think on your feet. Just listen to the answers and repeat them back. Less brawl, more brains.

  31. Graeme Edgeler 31
    25 September 2012 at 2:01 pm

    If Key had told us a week ago, he may have been committing a criminal offence.

    It is illegal to disclose the existence of unlawfully intercepted communications.

    • tracey 31.1
      25 September 2012 at 3:06 pm

      is that comparable to deliberately breaching the privacy act?

    • Colonial Viper 31.2
      25 September 2012 at 4:25 pm

      It is illegal to disclose the existence of unlawfully intercepted communications.

      So instead you should suppress the existence of unlawfully intercepted communications?

    • prism 31.3
      25 September 2012 at 4:41 pm

      G E
      So any old law that gets passed without scruple or integrity should be bowed and scraped to.
      Laws if they are to be respected, should be respectful of the country’s standards, and respectable so that people see they fit to the ethical and social model that they expect and believe that their country follows.

      • Colonial Viper 31.3.1
        25 September 2012 at 8:05 pm

        Indeed. Some orders should not – and must not – be followed.

        • Poission 31.3.1.1
          25 September 2012 at 8:19 pm

          That is an argument used by Paul Volcker when discussing the problems of the GFC

          We have got to do something about the infrastructure of the system and we have to worry about the credit-rating agencies. And we have to look at the accounting system, at the system for dealing with derivatives and how they’re settled. So there are a lot of systemic issues. The main point I’m making is that we want to emerge from this with a more stable system. It will be less exciting for many people, but it will not warrant — I don’t think the present system does, either– $50-million paydays in that central part of the system. Or even $25-or $100-million paydays.

          If somebody can go out and gamble and make that money, OK. But don’t gamble with the public’s money. That’s an important distinction. One of the saddest days of my life was when my grandson — and he’s a particularly brilliant grandson — went to college. He was good at mathematics. And after he had been at college for a year or two I asked him what he wanted to do when he grew up. He said, “I want to be a financial engineer.” My heart sank. Why was he going to waste his life on this profession?

          A year or so ago, my daughter had seen something in the paper, some disparaging remarks I had made about financial engineering. She sent it to my grandson, who normally didn’t communicate with me very much. He sent me an e-mail: “Grandpa, don’t blame it on us! We were just following the orders we were getting from our bosses.” The only thing I could
          do was send him back an e-mail: “I will not accept the Nuremberg excuse.”

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcker_Rule

        • Herodotus 31.3.1.2
          25 September 2012 at 8:55 pm

          Not sure how Key can know that an unlawful act was committed, as there has yet to be a court case to decide there maybe some extenuating circumstances – perhaps the police will not charge due to perhaps like Banks lack of evidence so no laws broken !!!!
          As I have not read, what laws were broken just that the GCSB acted beyond its brief. So would appreciate to know what actual law was broken and the ramifications to both the organisation and individuals e.g. fines , imprisonment etc ??

          • karol 31.3.1.2.1
            25 September 2012 at 9:10 pm

            Key did say there was an unlawful act committed to the media. In the House today he quibbled on that:

            http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/3/5/9/50HansQ_20120925_00000001-1-Dotcom-Case-Actions-of-Government-Communications.htm

            1. Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister responsible for the GCSB: Does he consider that he should have been informed about the unlawful bugging of Kim Dotcom earlier than Monday, 17 September 2012; if not, why not?

            Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Minister responsible for the GCSB) : No, I was informed by the director of the Government Communications Security Bureau on 17 September, which was the first day I was in Wellington following travel to Russia and Japan, and the first opportunity I had to meet with the director in a secure environment once he had confirmed that it was likely an unlawful activity had taken place.

            Dr Russel Norman: Is it his understanding that the bugging was unlawful because Mr Kim Dotcom is a resident of New Zealand?

            Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I am not in a position to go through what the particular issues are. I can say that the law is quite clear in one regard about what sort of individual can have action taken against them, and in the fullness of time—hopefully, by the end of this week—Justice Neazor’s report will be available for people to be able to read.
            …
            Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I have to check; I am not entirely sure. I have actually said it is likely to be unlawful, and, as I said, we will be in a better position to understand the reasons—

            • Tracey 31.3.1.2.1.1
              26 September 2012 at 6:57 am

              “Justice Neazor’s report will be available for people to be able to read.”

              And that’s when a follow up question was needed. “Will the PM confirm that he will read this report?”

  33. ed 33
    25 September 2012 at 3:20 pm

    He can not hide his transrail eyes.

    he would be shit at poker.

    • mike 33.1
      25 September 2012 at 4:36 pm

      Ha like at 0:35 when asked “Can you explain why GCSB were involved with this in the first place?”

      Key: “Um… Well, because they gather information… when they deem it to be necessary.”

      Thanks for clearing that up.

    • mike e 33.2
      25 September 2012 at 11:40 pm

      good at swallowing dead rats though!
      Cup of tea on the ‘cards’ for Winston?

  34. Poission 34
    25 September 2012 at 7:21 pm

    Nice report on Campbell Live tonight.there is some exceptional reporting and simplistic communication by this News team.

    They were onto the taskforce officer,who perjured himself on the stand.This should be either a PCA complaint or solicitor general complaint.

    There is a lot of mileage,and all the ministers need to be questioned.

    • karol 34.1
      25 September 2012 at 7:27 pm

      The sum total of people who didn’t tell Key anything is beyond belief. Either most are lying, or Key is a lame duck PM.

      • Poission 34.1.1
        25 September 2012 at 7:33 pm

        Amazing Hilary Clinton knew but did not share the intelligence.

      • gobsmacked 34.1.2
        25 September 2012 at 7:52 pm

        Either most are lying, or Key is a lame duck PM.

        Neither. It’s called plausible deniability.

        http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2012/09/25/gordon-campbell-on-dotcom-spies-and-plausible-deniability/

        Key doesn’t say “Tell me”. He doesn’t say “Don’t tell me”. He has staff whose job is to be a barrier between the PM and the information. If the info is useful politically, it gets passed on to the PM. If it’s not, then he’s not told, so he can say “I wasn’t told”.

        As Gordon C points out, this is very different from his predecessor, but it’s not unusual in politics. Key just takes it further (and it’s worked for him so far).

        • mike 34.1.2.1
          25 September 2012 at 8:36 pm

          Isn’t plausible deniability supposed to be plausible?

        • Tracey 34.1.2.2
          26 September 2012 at 6:59 am

          I recall in 2008 when Key was attacking clark over the glen/peters saga, he told Paul Henry he would answer questions not even asked of him, that’s how transparent he would be.

          Someone needs to find that clip from the Breakfast show… to show how far Mr Key’s lies extend…

  35. Ken Martin 35
    25 September 2012 at 7:45 pm

    Hmm, While hindsight is 100%, I do think GCSB should have double checked the police advice about the status of Mr Dotcom and his employee. As President Ronald Reagan used to say, “trust but verify”. Or they could have checked with their domestic companion agency, the SIS, or the government’s immigration service. This whole sorry saga is another example of police incompetence compounded by a captive compliant police minister. Like the rest of her cabinet ilk, she is not worthy of her ministerial warrant.

    Personally, I am fed up with National, and with National-lite (Labour).

    What with bungles over the proposed part one asset sales process, and now a Megaupload mess, enough is enough. “The Face” aka John Boy, ought to seek a fresh mandate with a new election. Boy, is it so true that voters get governments they deserve!

    • Tracey 35.1
      26 September 2012 at 7:01 am

      I’m not in an intelligence service, heck I’m probably not even intelligent, but I would have asked Immigration about Mr Dotcom’s status, not the police. First, anyway.

  36. karol 36
    25 September 2012 at 7:56 pm

    Another point just occurred to me. For some reason Garner has been running the story the last couple of nights that Nat strategists are looking at working with Peters & NZF next election. Seems like this was leaked to Garner from within National. Why now?

    Is this in fact, Key’s plan B if he has to jettison Banks before the end of this term….. thus the reason he’s looking to cultivate Peters now?

    • Poission 36.1
      25 September 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Definitely inside test,I suspect suspect their internal polling is showing drift to NZF as seen in the horizon poll.

      I think the media needs to target Dunn on this issue.Also labour needs a strong local candidate in this electorate,some new blood time for a change etc.Selecting now would be a good strategy.

  37. appleboy 37
    25 September 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Hello, am I missing something? Key says he didn’t know about it. Today, Oh Bill has just told me that he knew about it!!

    There’s no way that when Bill English signed off he would not have told Key. What the hell is going on with these clowns, are they falling over their lies?

    Key to English “Anything happen while I was away Bill?”, “Nah mate nothing I can think of….”.

    • mike e 37.1
      25 September 2012 at 11:14 pm

      KB haven’t mentioned one single item on the fact that Blinglsh signed on the dotted line not once have they mentioned that fact!
      That says it all!

  38. AmaKiwi 38
    25 September 2012 at 11:09 pm

    If Dotcom was not a NZ resident, the entire extradition process would have been unnecessary.

    The USA waits until Dotcom’s tourist visa expires. He has to leave NZ. The USA has him arrested at the first overseas airport he touches down at. Simple.

    The commando raid extradition drama was because the USA, Key, English, the police, and the GCSB knew Dotcom had a residence visa.

    I know governments lie. But these clowns aren’t even competent liars.

    • Tracey 38.1
      26 September 2012 at 7:27 am

      Interesting point.

      Maybe the quid pro quo for Key (from the USA in allowing the Dotcom seizure) was “if anything happens you protect me from the fallout”…

  39. Dv 39
    25 September 2012 at 11:26 pm

    No fun in that.

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