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Daily review 01/12/2021

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, December 1st, 2021 - 61 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

61 comments on “Daily review 01/12/2021 ”

  1. Dennis Frank 1

    Looks like Europe has managed to pull itself out of the collective funk that Brexit precipitated, and is doing something radically innovative.

    The EU is to reveal details of a global investment plan that's widely seen as a rival to China's Belt and Road initiative. Insiders say it'll set out "concrete" ideas on digital, transport, climate and energy schemes.

    It's regarded as part of the West's efforts to counter Chinese influence in Africa and elsewhere. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen will present the "Global Gateway" initiative on Wednesday.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59473071

    • Corey Humm 1.1

      This is good news. Europe is far too inward and rarely outward looking. In a world where America is a basket case a collective Europe needs to step up on the international stage. Trade and infrastructure programs if done fairly and cooperatively and not getting poor nations in debt should be celebrated. This is a way that Europe can be a major player on the global stage instead of always focusing on itself.

  2. Anne 2

    Stood behind an anti-vaxxer in a queue at the bank today. Wore a mask but it wasn't covering her nose. She told me that Dr Fauci is responsible for the pandemic because he paid the Wuhan laboratory millions of dollars to create the virus and release it into the community.

    I [kindly] suggested to her that someone was ‘pulling her leg’. She didn't take too kindly to my response.

    The fruitcakes who come up with these fantasies have had to discard the conspiracy that Covid is a fake and doesn't exist and are instead spreading crazy and dangerous stories about famous people.

    I cannot comprehend why governments everywhere are just letting the crackpots get away with it at the expense of the rest of us.

    • JanM 2.1

      Must say I'm really over them – how did we manage so many nutters? And its going to get worse come Friday!

    • Gezza 2.2

      What do you think governments could/can do about it, & what would the cost of doing that be?

      Clog up the Courts all round the world proving every crackpot claim to be false ?

      (Some of them may even be difficult to disprove.)

      Shunning/shaming these ratbags & dunderheads may be the only way we can really deal with them. Arguing with them seems to be pointless; those few I’ve seen interviewed briefly look absolutely fixated on their weird pet theory.

      But would our mainstream media cooperate? Nah. Reporting them publicises them but that’s what our media do. And, to be fair, if they did ignore them there’d be complaints they weren’t doing their job & reporting news & events.

    • Dennis Frank 2.3

      My favourite conspiracy theories are those which can be validated by msm sources. For instance, scientists conspiring to use witchcraft to research Covid:

      Using Danish witchcraft folklore as a model, the researchers from UCLA and Berkeley analysed thousands of social media posts with an artificial intelligence tool and extracted the key people, things and relationships.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/oct/26/why-people-believe-covid-conspiracy-theories-could-folklore-hold-the-answer

      • In Vino 2.3.1

        Sorry Dennis

        I think that is all a little too deep for your average non-reading modern audience.

        I think we need to return to the fundamentals.

        It is simple: random inspections of households are mandated, and if any piece of cracked pottery is found, the inhabitants of that household are bundled off to an Isolation Camp, pending investigation into any of their many nefarious (probably) activities.

        Some of them will probably turn out to be witches too. Life does get complicated..

        • Dennis Frank 2.3.1.1

          surprise What a brilliant idea! An inspectorate. An entire new arm of the public service! Old leftists will be thrilled at the prospect.

          But your scheme is vulnerable to a similar critique to your complaint about the voodoo scientists: cracked pottery as evidence is too subtle. It's clearly analogic to the used of tortoise shells in divination by the Shang dynasty in China three millennia back: they heated them in a fire then read the future from the cracking pattern produced. Punters out there will deem this too weird to think about – they're still struggling to figure omicron out (anagram of moronic). wink

    • joe90 2.4

      Wait until they cotton on that businesses required to allow access to all can designate a different entrance/exit for those without a valid vaccination certificate.

      33 Business or service in control of premises must allow people access to designated premises

      (1)

      A business or service in control of premises (premises A) that people must enter for the purpose of accessing designated premises, or goods or services from those designated premises,—

      (a)

      must allow them to enter premises A for that purpose; and

      (b)

      may require them to enter premises A through identified access ways for designated premises only; and

      (c)

      must not request them to produce a CVC or other evidence of being vaccinated against COVID-19, for the purpose of accessing designated premises.

      (2)

      This clause is subject to the Trespass Act 1980.

      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2021/0386/latest/LMS591898.html

      • Matiri 2.4.1

        Just received this email from our local vet practice:

        "As vets we strongly promote the use of vaccination in animals. We are well informed on vaccinations, how they work, what to expect from them and their limitations. We routinely vaccinate puppies and kittens from 6-8weeks of age reducing parvovirus in dogs and respiratory diseases in cats. All dairy cattle are vaccinated annually for lepto, reducing lepto spread to farm workers. Some of the common diseases we vaccinate our animals for in this area include lepto, salmonella, BVD, tetanus, rotavirus, parvo, canine distemper, kennel cough and cat flu.

        Our belief in the use of vaccines as part of an effective control programme extends to COVID and we encourage all clients, their families, and staff to be vaccinated. Like nearly all vaccines it is not 100% effective, and this is to be expected. For this reason, although our staff are fully vaccinated, we will continue to take precautions to reduce the chances of our staff testing positive for Covid. If we have a positive Covid test even if we are not sick, we will not be able to work which could reduce the services available to our clients. For this this reason we will be taking precautions to reduce our contact with Covid.

        We appreciate that it is a choice to get vaccinated. We will still service animals owned by unvaccinated clients, but it will be at a Level 4 like system.

        Only clients that are vaccination verified will be able to enter the clinic. Clients’ vaccine passes from either their phone or a printed copy will be scanned on entry.

        Contactless pick up will be available at a small surcharge for people that cannot enter the clinic.

        Pets with Unvaccinated owners
        We will still see these pets as necessary for all procedures. Contactless drop off will be required for all services including consults, surgery, and euthanasia. A nurse fee will be added for the extra staff member required.

        Housecalls
        Will only be a service we offer to vaccination verified clients.

        Farm calls
        Unvaccinated farms
        You will be asked before every visit if there are any unwell people in your staff and families. Masks must be worn by any people working within 5m of the vet. If close contact is required, we may choose to be accompanied by one of our own staff members at the farmer’s cost.

        Vaccinated Farms
        The vets will have the NZ Pass Verifier on their phones. Anyone who will work with the vet will be scanned to confirm vaccination. We will record who has been scanned so we don’t have to do this every visit. At this stage we envisage we will re-verify every 6 months."

        • Rosemary McDonald 2.4.1.1

          Farm calls
          Unvaccinated farms
          You will be asked before every visit if there are any unwell people in your staff and families. Masks must be worn by any people working within 5m of the vet. If close contact is required, we may choose to be accompanied by one of our own staff members at the farmer’s cost.

          Oh deary me! Just over a month ago, here in the Far North, I was one of a team of four trying to get two lambs out of a labouring ewe. There was myself, the owner of the ewe grazing my land, the vet nurse and the vet. There were Cases in the neighbourhood. None of us were masked. One of us was in pajamas. Some were wearing long gloves. One of us I know for sure was vaccinated. One I know for sure wasn't. One I suspect wasn't. Now a ewe is not a large animal…and certainly 5 metre distancing was not possible. Maybe the nurse pulling on the ropes might have got two metres from me holding the poor ewe's head. Somehow all of us survived.smiley Apart from one lamb.sad

    • Pete 2.5

      Another story in the news about a mental defective. A good story for the followers of the nutcase doctors in New Zealand. Not that it would change their tiny minds.

      "One of Austria’s most famous opponents of coronavirus vaccines, Johann Biacsics, has died from COVID-19, local media reports. His condition worsened from October, and he was hospitalized in early November. Despite his breathing difficulties and critical condition, he refused conventional treatment.

      At home, Biacsics tried to treat himself with chlorine dioxide. It is considered a miracle cure for COVID-19 among opponents of vaccines. Soon after, the man died."

      https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/johann-biacsics-65-kottingbrunn-at-self-employed-anti-vaxxer-dead-from-covid-and-stupidity

      • RedLogix 2.5.1

        These stories are of course entirely selective. That same site will say nothing whenever someone fully vaccinated dies of COVID – as many must do because they are not at all 100% effective.

        • gsays 2.5.1.1

          It is the glee with which these stories get repeated that is the real worry. To be so strongly identified as a recipient of Pfizer's product, finding amusement in another's death…

          When a similar story was pointed out to me I felt compelled to remind them 1/3 of folk hospitalized with Covid have the vaccine in them.

          • RedLogix 2.5.1.1.1

            You touch on a dark theme – the sheer glee with which this sentiment is pronounced is not normal behaviour.

            Indeed the person above would likely not have dreamed of saying something quite so morally objectionable before COVID.

    • Dennis Frank 2.6

      Rod Dacombe, Director of the Centre for British Politics and Government, King's College London, points to Occam's Razor as the culprit:

      conspiracy theories work differently to other forms of misinformation. Rather than simply trading in inaccurate or misleading information, conspiracy theorists believe they have discovered the hidden truth that world events result from the deliberate actions of unseen, malevolent actors… This kind of thinking provides a simple explanation for complex and unpredictable events. In a time of widespread uncertainty and fear it is easy to see the appeal in claims that the pandemic is deliberate and controlled.

      So folks default to the simplest causal logic they can get their heads around. Human nature.

      https://theconversation.com/conspiracy-theories-about-the-pandemic-are-spreading-offline-as-well-as-through-social-media-167418

      And it helps to be woke:

      Being “awake” is a central theme in conspiracist content… The state of being “awake” is often put across as being virtuous and exceptional, and readers are frequently encouraged to view their knowledge of the pandemic’s “true” nature as a motivating factor to action.

      In the virtuous circle, the call to action operates as team-building psychology.

      Alongside this are frequent moral appeals to action which play upon readers’ emotions to drive them to act. This includes content written in language that draws on themes of war and conflict and emotive articles warning of the effects of public health measures on children.

      • McFlock 2.6.1

        Sigh.

        It's one of life's ironies that those who hold complex and religiously-held beliefs about conspiracies of all kinds describe themselves as "being awake", while those who attempt to be considerate of the structural discrimination and biases that extend into everyday language and behaviour are denoted via the grammatically-incoherent form as "being woke".

        • felix 2.6.1.1

          You make it sound as if "woke" was imposed rather than adopted. I've always found it ironic that a bunch of mostly rich white kids were so eager to culturally appropriate the term for themselves.

          • McFlock 2.6.1.1.1

            Maybe ten years ago – these days it seems to be used expressly as a perjorative. But then I'm too old for tictok, so have no idea what the young 'un are up to.

        • swordfish 2.6.1.2

          .

          those who attempt to be considerate of the structural discrimination and biases that extend into everyday language and behaviour

          Clueless PoMo Dogmatists like you will always create Nightmare scenarios for the innocent … zero understanding of complex reality … and a deep underlying desire to scapegoat those poorer than you unlucky enough to fall into demographics you deem outgroups [I mean the sheer arrogance of you spoilt little brats] … and of course, given your privileged social position, you'll always avoid suffering from the mayhem you cheerfully create.

          No surprise that several recent studies in Psychology have shown that core members of the Woke / Critical Theory Cult (ie North American versions of you) disproportionately suffer from the Dark Triad Personality Type … ( 1. Machiavellianism, 2. Narcissism [esp high Entitlement], 3. Psychopathy).

          Thought immediately of you (& a couple of 'tiptoe around me on eggshells' ex-boarding school girl former authors here) when I read these analyses … can always count on you to defend the indefensible in a particularly manipulative way, with all the kafka traps, motte-and-bailey fallacies & other rhetorical dishonesty so closely associated with your elitist little Cult.

          • McFlock 2.6.1.2.1

            All very engrossing, I am sure. Did you actually manage to find any links to back up your previous assertion that I am a "particularly ambitious & dogmatic local cheerleader" of CRT?

            It's funny. I'm not particularly knowledgable about what CRT actually is, and all I know for sure about postmodernism is that nominative determinism would dictate that it comes after modernism, but here I am apparently standing on the parapets waving their flags, as far as I can tell simply because I don't like bigots.

    • Dennis Frank 2.7

      And from a science website appraisal we get this:

      what is actually going on, according to Robert F. Kennedy Jr, the head of the anti-vaccination organization Children’s Health Defence, is more sinister: philanthropist Bill Gates pays Dr Fauci, who in turn develops drugs and passes them to drug companies in which Gates is invested. Gates then guarantees markets in Africa through his control of the World Health Organization (WHO), which requires those countries to buy the drugs and vaccines.

      So you can see why the Get Fauci movement has built up such a head of steam…

      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-021-01217-2

    • RedLogix 2.8

      She told me that Dr Fauci is responsible for the pandemic because he paid the Wuhan laboratory millions of dollars to create the virus and release it into the community.

      Partly true. The evidence is undeniable that Fauci approved funding for the work at Wuhan, via a third party Eco-Health Alliance, to work on bat derived coronavirus'. No doubt on this at all.

      And at this point in time I'd rate it as 95% certain that the original CV19 virus escaped that same lab as the result of poor operational procedures that had already been warned of years prior. Again all well documented.

      However there is no evidence however Fauci or anyone connected to the Wuhan lab intentionally planned the release of the virus.

      But Fauci is not blameless either. It's likely he did not tell his boss, Donald Trump, everything he knew about the probable origin and transmissibility of the virus – which contributed to the misdirection and mishandling of the early global responses to the pandemic. Again email document trails point very strongly to this.

      'Conspiracy theories' are what you get when people suspect they are being lied to. In the absence of the truth they have to fill the gap with speculation – some of which they will get right and often times wrong. As does the person you overheard in the bank. But this doesn't change the fact of them being lied to in the first place.

      • Anne 2.8.1

        But Fauci is not blameless either. It's likely he did not tell his boss, Donald Trump, everything he knew about the probable origin and transmissibility of the virus…

        Jesus! You can't blame him for that. No-one in their right mind would tell Trump everything. He is a narcissistic sociopath.

        • RedLogix 2.8.1.1

          Nonetheless it was his job. If he didn't want to do it Fauci should have resigned.

          • Gezza 2.8.1.1.1

            I dunno, RL. Trump was a special case of an ignorant, egotistical, unpredictable lying & generally Bizarro- type POTUS . I wouldn’t want to fault any of his advisers for not wanting to tell him stuff he could wilfully or stupidly misinterpret or misrepresent.

            • RedLogix 2.8.1.1.1.1

              If Trump was making uninformed decisions because information was deliberately withheld from him – who is the problem here?

    • RedLogix 2.9

      I cannot comprehend why governments everywhere are just letting the crackpots get away with it at the expense of the rest of us.

      Burn all the witches!

  3. Maurice 3

    Either (1) Believe everyone or (2) Believe no one

    Though both systems do cause confusion!

  4. Patricia Bremner 4

    We went out today!! Why is that remarkable? We are out of the habit.

    We do almost everything online, but had to get our vaccination passes printed, as our own printer had died.

    Well the first problem was a line of people all wanting the print out at the chemist. It took twenty minutes to get to the front of the queue. A lovely young woman took our name date of birth and found us in the system. She then ushered us to a bench seat with a comment "please rest while this beast of a copier decides if it is going to co-operate" I said "Bad day?" She laughed behind her mask her eyes sparkling "No not really, just it goes slow and seems worse when there is a line of people waiting" She was rushed of her feet getting scripts from the back serving and doing vaccine print outs.

    She brought ours across and told us we could go to another counter to get them laminated which we did. It was lovely to see all these people being pleasant and helpful and treating each other kindly, and keeping to the 2m markers. I was uplifted by the lack of any complaints or real problems. I have missed people.

    As we got back into the car I said "Well now we have them, we need to go out to use them." So first fine day we plan to have lunch at the Garden Centre. Safe outings all.

  5. Ad 5

    It's time to forget again that we have an Opposition, or a leader of it.

    This country is within the worst acceleration of class and social disorder since the Mother of All Budgets under Bolger and Richardson nearly three decades ago.

    All the attendant social damage is manifest in each city suburb around us.

    We are also about to enter a punitive world in which the unvaccinated are effectively shunned from society. This will add the expanding rift of the poorest.

    We are also only just beginning to recover from the mental and social damage of lockdowns.

    Forget National. This is our country.

    • RedLogix 5.1

      I hear you.

      The paradox is that the world we live in has never been better – yet we also sense it's desperate incompleteness.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 5.1.1

        I have a sense of a complete world (spaceship Earth) unable to support our unstable overshoot civilisation. There's no genuine widespread commitment to operate within planetary boundaries – the broad consensus is that the price of fouling our nest is not yet high enough for societies to voluntarily transform BAU – c'est la vie.

        Irreversible tipping points, winning narratives and whether transformation will be too late: Reflections from Johan Rockstrom
        [25 November 2021]
        Jonathon: But do you think politicians really understand the severity of the crisis?

        Johan: Yes and no…. ‘Yes’, in that I really think it has sunk in with citizens, politicians and business leaders that our current economic paradigm and the development pathways we’re following have risks associated with them and are causing negative impacts: that we have a problem, basically. And we can see this confirmed in opinion polls. That base understanding is much higher than ever before. And that’s why we see political initiatives like [the EU’s] Fit for 55 [targeting a 55% emission reduction by 2030], the Green Deal, and the Biden Administration making courageous decisions around Net Zero. So all that is good.

        The ‘No’ is more problematic, in that I literally don’t see any signs of political leadership anywhere in the world understanding that we face a real crisis; that we’re talking of tipping points that could push the planet irreversibly towards leaving all future generations with less and less liveable conditions.

        So in some ways [world leaders] have understood [that we have a problem], but at the same time still think that somehow we can muddle through along incremental, linear pathways that don’t in any way rock the boat of our current wealth creation models… That there are some quick fixes such as ‘green growth’ – decoupling [growth from environmental impact] – and if we just try to recycle better and reduce waste and stop eating meat, we’ll save the planet, basically! That I think is the symptom of failing to understand what the science has shown us: that this is a systems problem – that we’re hitting the ceiling of the entire planet’s capacity to be stable enough to support humanity.

        Even if we are not able to arrive at the dead centre of a safe operating space, we know that every tenth of a degree counts. We know that every species counts. We know that every hectare of land counts. We know that even having an overshoot period, so that we fail before we succeed, means that the impact on our children and their children will be reduced. So it‘s all worth it. I’ve never, never seen any justification for giving up.

        The social shortfall and ecological overshoot of nations
        [Nature Sustainability, 18 November 2021]
        Previous research has shown that no country currently meets the basic needs of its residents at a level of resource use that could be sustainably extended to all people globally. Using the doughnut-shaped ‘safe and just space’ framework, we analyse the historical dynamics of 11 social indicators and 6 biophysical indicators across more than 140 countries from 1992 to 2015. We find that countries tend to transgress biophysical boundaries faster than they achieve social thresholds. The number of countries overshooting biophysical boundaries increased over the period from 32–55% to 50–66%, depending on the indicator. At the same time, the number of countries achieving social thresholds increased for five social indicators (in particular life expectancy and educational enrolment), decreased for two indicators (social support and equality) and showed little change for the remaining four indicators. We also calculate ‘business-as-usual’ projections to 2050, which suggest deep transformations are needed to safeguard human and planetary health. Current trends will only deepen the ecological crisis while failing to eliminate social shortfalls.

        • Gezza 5.1.1.1

          Well we either collectively adapt or the planet will dispose of us as excess(ive) baggage, imo.

        • RedLogix 5.1.1.2

          All the usual alarmist fear-porn hand waving – but zero attempt at a constructive response.

          And the usual disdain for 'quick techno-fixes' while typing on a computer (given the immense technological structures necessary to make this possible) is more than a tad dishonest.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 5.1.1.2.2

            Don't know whether to laugh or cry at your latest "fear porn hand waving" 'critique' – maybe the horse-hair shirt is compromising my logic, maybe it's the sack-cloth, but imho we each have our fear porn hobby horses.
            Still, laughter is the best medicine wink

            A Final Warning to Planet Earth [PDF; Feb. 2018]
            In Ripple et al. [1], 15 364 scientists from 184 countries issue a ‘warning to humanity’ and present a radical agenda to protect planet Earth. We, the billions of people believing in human exceptionalism, categorically reject this agenda and issue in return a stark warning to planet Earth. No amount of facts showing that planet Earth is in a dire state will have us changing our mindset, thank you very much. We do not care about planet Earth. We care about our next devices and their latest cool features. We want more stuff.

            Btw, what's your response to the genuine question I posed on Monday?


            "The richest 1% (income >US$109,000) of the population produce 15% of emissions and the 10% richest (>US$38,000) produce 48% of emissions. This shows that our lifestyle has the highest impact on our planet; wealthy people therefore have the highest imperative to change behaviour." But they have to want to change.

            • RedLogix 5.1.1.2.2.1

              My answer to your question is simple – the graph you present is the same distribution of outcomes in any productive domain with repeated trades.

              If you consider any domain that you may be familiar with – music, art, academia – the same graph would be plotted. A tiny fraction of people contribute to the largest group of outcomes. (In this case CO2 consumption merely being an obvious proxy for energy consumption.)

              Next question. What are you trying to achieve and how do you propose to get there?

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                I believe that this iteration of human civilisation must achieve a rapid and large decrease in it's carbon and resource hoofprints on spaceship Earth.

                I (and many others) propose that this can be achieved by first challenging the idea that the current distribution of outcomes is inevitable and/or sustainable, and then proceeding to change that distribution; to develop "a new way of thinking".

                But, of course, 'we' have to want to change – the behaviours of the 'golden billion', and the examples we provide others, are problematic. Can humans learn to self-regulate so as to not degrade the planetary life support system? I believe they can (and hopefully in sufficient numbers), but they have to want to learn.
                More 'fear porn' coming your way wink

                Differentiating the Concepts of Technosphere, Noosphere, and Global Brain
                A critical problem with Earth’s current technosphere is that due to its rapid and recent evolution, it does not have the kind of feedback loops (as found in the biosphere) needed for self-regulation. Humans are programmed (biologically) to exploit all available resources, but we haven’t evolved culturally to understand limits. Haff emphasizes that the lack of recycling within the technosphere (with the accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere from fossil fuel combustion as an iconic example). Life cycle analyses of all manufactured products, and better monitoring of input/recycling/output budgets (e.g., for aluminum) at the global scale is required for a sustainable technosphere.

                The technosphere, noosphere, and global brain concepts share a common concern with understanding the relationship of the burgeoning human enterprise, including its technology, to the entirety of the Earth system. Anthropogenic global environmental change poses an existential threat to humanity and there is a clear need for a Great Transition involving massive changes in values as well as technology. These three concepts serve as beacons pointing towards global sustainability.

                The utility of the technosphere concept is that it refers to measurable entities, and formally meshes with the existing Earth system science paradigm. Given that humans are only part of the technosphere, and a part does not control the whole, awareness of the technosphere argues against hubris. However, the technosphere concept doesn’t engage the host of psychological and sociological issues that must be addressed to rapidly alter the Earth system trajectory. It helps reveal the danger humanity faces but doesn’t foster a worldview that will ameliorate the danger.

                Scientists' warning against the society of waste [4 Nov. 2021]

                • We present a holistic analysis of anthropogenic waste production and its impacts.

                • Each year humans waste more than 30% of most natural resources.

                • Resource consumption is decoupled from population growth and unevenly distributed.

                • Consequences of the Society of Waste include major environmental and social impacts.

                • Degrowth and circular strategies are proposed to reduce the human footprint.

                • RedLogix

                  Yup – fear mongering.

                  One of the best managers I ever worked for had a little sign on his desk – it read Are you part of the solution, or part of the problem?

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Yup – fear mongering.

                    Why do you think scientists are sounding alarm bells it in such numbers Red? Are they all misguided – is it only you that sees clearly?

                    Are you part of the solution, or part of the problem?

                    If I was to continue comsuming at the rate I have been for most of my life then I would certainly be setting a bad example. It's eye-opening to realise just how many ways there are for a relatively affluent person such as myself to shrink my footprint – no more international travel, and more walking (which I enjoy, so it's a win-win) – you can't take it with you. I'm still part of the problem, but aiming to be a smaller part.

                    Imho, given the state of spaceship Earth, only the one-eyed could view changing to 'shrink and share' lifestyles as contributing to the problem.

                    “If change across society is to be brought about at the speed and scale required to meet agreed climate targets we need to shrink and share: reduce carbon budgets and share more equally. To radically reduce our emissions, governments must look closely at the lifestyles and behaviours of the most affluent in society – the ‘polluter elite’ – who travel the most, own the largest homes and can often pay for the privilege of polluting. Not only will targeting the polluter elite deliver substantial emissions savings, but it will also show wider society that we really are all in this together and that the transition to a low-carbon society must be fair and just – with all of us pulling our weight.”
                    https://council.science/current/blog/target-high-carbon-emitters-to-accelerate-green-transition-say-leading-experts-on-behavioural-change/

                    • RedLogix

                      Why do you think scientists are sounding alarm bells it in such numbers Red? Are they all misguided

                      When the alarm bell keep on being rung year in year out – and the same scientists reject all viable responses to the crisis – then yes they are misguiding us. And I'm certainly not the only one to see this.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    and the same scientists reject all viable responses to the crisis

                    If you say so. I'd hazard a guess that you believe your responses are the only viable ones – we can agree to disagree, although (as I've mentioned before), I don't hold out much hope that either your or other responses will be enacted in a timely fashion.

                    Doesn't frighten me personally, but I do fear for future generations – is that wrong?

      • Blazer 5.1.2

        I think you mean ….'your' world has never been better Red.

        You always repeat that there are less people living in poverty than before the Industrial revolution and increasing urbanisation.

        Your measurements are narrow and unconvincing.

        • RedLogix 5.1.2.1

          If you need convincing I suggest you ask those who still have to burn dung to cook their food.

          Otherwise this:

          • Blazer 5.1.2.1.1

            Dung or charcoal=doesn't really matter.

            The graph is a misleading construct.

            The income line especially is laughable…what could you buy with 10 cents in the 60's?

            The western countries lept ahead through colonisation/empire as they exploited the countries on the other end of the scale.

            Wonder what a graph showing suicide rates ,the inequality gap and number of refugees would look like!

            • RedLogix 5.1.2.1.1.1

              The income line especially is laughable…what could you buy with 10 cents in the 60's?

              Immediately under the graph's title is this:

              Total output of the world economy; adjusted for inflation and expressed in international-$ in 2011 prices.

              The western countries lept ahead through colonisation/empire as they exploited the countries on the other end of the scale.

              What rule said that the all world would all develop at exactly the same time and at the same rate? I'm not deaf to the question you pose here. As scifi author William Gibson once said – 'the future has already arrived, it's just not very evenly distributed'.

              The challenge to a progressive post-marxist left must be this; how to ensure this future is universally accessible to all. You’re invited to talk constructively to this.

              • Blazer

                'Total output of the world economy; adjusted for inflation and expressed in international-$ in 2011 prices.'

                This is immediately under another graph in another thread.

                Not the one you are referring to.

          • higherstandard 5.1.2.1.2

            I miss Hans Rosling did you see his population presentations ?

            • RedLogix 5.1.2.1.2.1

              Yes – Rosling was a remarkable man who inspired many people to rethink the shibboleths they'd been taught.

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                This guy?

                "I don't give a damn about polar bears! I can live without polar bears."

                How is that “remarkable“? I can live without polar bears too.

                • RedLogix

                  I recall reading that about 99.9% or more of species that ever existed are extinct. Evolution is not going to stop for your sentimentality.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Sentimentality“? For polar bears? Your human exceptionalism is showing laugh

                    Just as long as that 99.9% doesn't add Homo sapiens any time soon – highly unlikely, but you never know.

                    • RedLogix

                      If you are going to frame this as a choice between killing people and killing polar bears – I choose the people.

                      Every time.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    You ‘framed’ my presentation of Rosling's quote as "sentimentality".

                    You then ‘framed’ my observation of your human exceptionalism as "a choice between killing people and killing polar bears" – whatever next?

                    Do you really believe that our incredibly gifted species will be faced with the choice of killing people versus the extinction of polar bears? Bizarre.

  6. Blazer 6

    Didn't notice the disclaimer under the title,even with a second look.

    What on earth do you think this means.

    'I think you mean ….'your' world has never been better Red.'

    Shouldn't your 'challenge' be embraced by all political spectrums!

    • RedLogix 6.1

      It's hardly a 'disclaimer' – for such a graph to have any meaning at all it will always be inflation adjusted. The team at Our World in Data are not idiots.

      And as Hans Rosling clearly shows – in a broad historic context – all of us 'golden 1b' who live in the developed world are among the luckiest bastards who ever lived. We could all be a lot more grateful for this than we typically are.

      You might want to ask yourself – the people who sold you the agenda of misery that is so often conflated with being a good leftie – who is benefitting from this? Not you, not the poor – who?

      • Blazer 6.1.1

        So are you assuming its figures adjusted for inflation 10 years ago?

        We all know about the widening gap in inequality since the Greenspan b/s became de riguere.

        I can accept you subscribe to an 'I'm alright …Jack' attitude ,many do not.

        As for misery…I'm not unhappy with my own life.

        I don't expect either you or me will be around when your 'nirvana' comes to pass in around 80 years!

        • RedLogix 6.1.1.1

          So are you assuming its figures adjusted for inflation 10 years ago?

          I'm not 'assuming' anything – the statement speaks for itself. Nor does it matter what year is used as the reference point – as long as the data is all adjusted to the same year the shape of the graph will remain the same.

          I can accept you subscribe to an 'I'm alright …Jack' attitude ,many do not.

          I've written extensively here over many years – that you have failed to understand it is not my problem.

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