Daily Review 06/04/2018

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1. adam 1

   6 April 2018 at 5:46 pm

   Like this piece from Gordon Campbell, our new institutionalised racism has a algorithm at the base of it. Such a great place to live, we like our racism to be civil, so we can pretend we are not that racist – seems we really are…

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1804/S00018/gordon-campbell-on-racial-profiling-at-immigration-nz.htm
   • Gabby 1.1

     6 April 2018 at 8:24 pm

     You know, it wouldn’t surprise me greatly if this is the model Bingles had in mind for his social investment thingy.
     Who’s this Alistair Murray fellow? Not some foreign johnny, what?
     • Carolyn_Nth 1.1.1

       6 April 2018 at 9:18 pm

       No. A retired NZ police Detective Inspector: reported in 2014 on police website:

       This Friday, we mark the retirements of Detective Superintendent Peter Devoy, National Manager Financial Crime Group, and Auckland OFCANZ taskforce leader Detective Inspector Alistair Murray.

       They have been with us for 33 and 32 years respectively.

       Looks like Murray got a rap on the knuckles from a judge for being part of a poorly investigated case against a Queens Council guy who scratched a car, back in 2011. Though I’m not sure what Murray had to do with the investigation.

       Penny Bright had some harsh words for OFCANZ back in 2013 (as reported by I Wishart) – for being oblivious to money laundering at Sky City.
   • OnceWasTim 1.2

     6 April 2018 at 8:25 pm

     It’s a bloody good piece @adam.
     What’s worse though is that if you look at what’s been happening, one almost has to use a crowbar to extract the details from ‘officials’ …. (see OpenMike today – @SaveNZ, @ Anne, @ Veutovipe and others).
     ‘Officials’ were at pains to portray it all as being fairly innocuous and just a ‘pilot/trial’ – just an ‘operational matter’ that didn’t concern a new Minister.

     Later, we learn that it has actually been used to deport people.

     And we await further details (now supposedly scheduled for Monday) – I thought it was originally going to be today – possibly the Minister has been gracious enough to allow his ‘officials’ to get their shit together before having to front.

     There are so many questions I hope the Minister is going to ask – such as whether this ‘pilot/test’ data has been used elsewhere (and such as when considering visa applications), and whether this ‘test/pilot’ data has been shared with ‘M5’ partners.
     Then of course, other considerations – such as whether a deportee had the opportunity to appeal/contest the validity of the data used.

     I’ve just spent a couple of hours going over various media reports and INZ and MoBIE PR, as well as their briefing to the incoming Minister
     There are SO SO SO many attempts to report scams and rorts to this Ministry dating back what is now years. They SHOULD be well versed already as to where problems are …… such as with Immigration consultants and and advice.
     Such as with problems with agents (offshore, but also here in little ole NuZull) falsely representing our immigration visa application requirements in various categories). And which are the ‘problem countries’. I could sort you out various media links but the file I’m storing them in includes names and is probably a bit too sensitive, and frankly I can’t now be arsed to do any editing and redactions).

     But what I didn’t see whilst overseas until last week visiting some of these ‘problematic’ countries was any attempt by INZ (which still has a presence in them) to alert people to scams and rorts in their local media. NOT FUCKING ONCE!
     (Kind of like preventative medicine, rather than the import-scam-fleece-deport, rinse and repeat policy currently in effect).
   • Roflcopter 1.3

     6 April 2018 at 10:02 pm

     I wonder if they got the algorithm from Phil Twyford?
2. Keepcalmcarryon 2

   6 April 2018 at 6:36 pm

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/102867499/government-cans-canterbury-and-marlborough-funding-for-irrigation-schemes
   A positive environmental decision on irrigation although they have green lighted some others.
3. Anne 3

   6 April 2018 at 7:42 pm

   This caption is just as relevant today as it was a year ago.

   https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-29052017/
4. Pat 4

   6 April 2018 at 8:08 pm

   Second wave eugenics?

   http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-racial-profiling-at-immigration-new-zealand/
   • McFlock 4.1

     6 April 2018 at 8:55 pm

     It really depends on how sophisticated the model is, especially as it’s small numbers (population-speaking).

     If it’s a simple score for each record calculated in column BA, it’s almost certainly magnifying systemic racialist biases. Like the US parole (or maybe presentencing report) program that gave offenders a higher risk of reoffending if you changed the ethnicity from “white” to “black”. For an illustration of why that isn’t simply reflecting the nature of things, police traffic stopps that resulted in arrest in one jurisdiction were mostly of black people, but the actual proportion of black drivers who were stopped and were arrested was much lower than white drivers. But the existing bias in traffic stops and searches for black drivers was such that it skewed the arrest rates.

     If it’s a more complex multivariate model (which can still be done in excel) and margins for statistical error are recognised, then theoretically one could argue that country-of-origin rating might more reflect systemic issues in those countries as to why disproportionate numbers of bad-character immigrants do or do not come from those places. Like those cops in Auckland who forced a teen onto a plane to Australia rather than deal with him here.

     But although it could be argued in theory, I’d expect a pretty high bar for it to be actually implemented (given the risk of racial profiling), and that doesn’t seem to have happened.
     • Monty 4.1.1

       6 April 2018 at 9:07 pm

       It is interesting. I love excell but we use power BI now.

       I was thinking a similar thought re how is each variable weighted. I would have expected in a INZ document an origin component. That just kinda makes sense.

       So I would like to know number of variables and inputs weighting per field. For example if the origin is worth one out of 1000 or 100 it’s very limited in its potential. But if it’s worth 10 or 20 out 100 then that is very concerning.

       I would rather a computer and unemotive program doing it over a human who may have negative stereotypes already.
       • McFlock 4.1.1.1

         6 April 2018 at 9:36 pm

         I don’t think just basic weightings would cut it.

         The objective for each variable is to return an output based on the individual’s category within that variable, and the return contributes in some way to the final decision to deport.

         So before consideration, that variable should be adjusted for every other variable in order to ensure that it’s just that variable being measured. Then the return is, say, a rate-ratio with confidence intervals.

         But that only controls against the other variables being measured. In the case of country of origin, how would you control against bias against Pasifika? Controlling for socioeconomioc status is fine, but if store owners are more likely to demand charges be laid against poor brown kids than poor white kids, how do we ensure that that bias doesn’t end up hitting the supposedly impartial spreadsheet?

         And then there’s shit like the deprivation index doesn’t relate directly to that individual so much as the cluster of dwellings around that individual, so there still might be a systemic difference in deprivation between say Maori and European individuals who are both living in nominally the same level of deprivation.

         Really, when looking at populations we’re usually looking at basically rough estimates of what’s probably going on in the area. Relating it back to an individual is fraught with issues, particularly in the social sciences (science-ishes?), Which is why systems like this and some of the MSD ideas around using the IDI for risk assessment are always in peril of magical thinking that screws more people up than it saves.

         btw, I’m mostly excel and SAS. Used matlab last year for another hat, though.
         • Monty 4.1.1.1.1

           7 April 2018 at 1:33 am

           I think the issue is no dB knows what the dimensions of each value are worth if we did then there is ability to debate. So many people have jumped on the this bad without understanding the background.

           What is the percentage deported per population origin base. That is a better understanding if this is a racist view from INZ.

           Highly recommend checking out power bi. It’s a great tool.
     • Pat 4.1.2

       7 April 2018 at 4:14 am

       “It really depends on how sophisticated the model is”

       Id suggest that firstly any modelling will not be terribly sophisticated and will contain numerous biases and that secondly any model that corrected down to the level of the individual would be no model at all.

       Finally if you truely believe such a tool could be developed and applied ethically you wouldnt apply it after the event.
5. OnceWasTim 5

   6 April 2018 at 8:25 pm

   It’s a bloody good piece @adam.
   What’s worse though is that if you look at what’s been happening, one almost has to use a crowbar to extract the details from ‘officials’ …. (see OpenMike today – @SaveNZ, @ Anne, @ Veutovipe and others).
   ‘Officials’ were at pains to portray it all as being fairly innocuous and just a ‘pilot/trial’ – just an ‘operational matter’ that didn’t concern a new Minister.

   Later, we learn that it has actually been used to deport people.

   And we await further details (now supposedly scheduled for Monday) – I thought it was originally going to be today – possibly the Minister has been gracious enough to allow his ‘officials’ to get their shit together before having to front.

   There are so many questions I hope the Minister is going to ask – such as whether this ‘pilot/test’ data has been used elsewhere ( such as when considering visa applications), and whether this ‘test/pilot’ data has been shared with ‘M5’ partners.
   Then of course, other considerations – such as whether a deportee had the opportunity to appeal/contest the validity of the data used.

   I’ve just spent a couple of hours going over various media reports and INZ and MoBIE PR, as well as their briefing to the incoming Minister
   There are SO SO SO many attempts to report scams and rorts to this Ministry dating back what is now years. They SHOULD be well versed already as to where problems are …… such as with Immigration consultants and advisors – including their own).
   Such as with problems with agents (offshore, but also here in little ole NuZull) falsely representing our immigration visa application requirements in various categories). And which are the ‘problem countries’. I could sort you out various media links but the file I’m storing them in includes names and is probably a bit too sensitive, and frankly I can’t now be arsed to do any editing and redactions).

   But what I didn’t see whilst overseas until last week visiting some of these ‘problematic’ countries was any attempt by INZ (which still has a presence in them) to alert people to scams and rorts in the local media. NOT FUCKING ONCE!
   (Kind of like preventative medicine, rather than the import-scam-fleece-deport, rinse and repeat policy currently in effect).
   And I note that the intent is to reduce a presence offshore to 5 locations – we can all guess where those locations are going to be.
6. McFlock 6

   6 April 2018 at 8:52 pm

   edit argh crap missed the reply button lol

   edit edit – might as well use the space to wish everyone a good weekend 🙂
7. Macro 7

   6 April 2018 at 9:36 pm

   Following on from the amazing “March for our Lives” pictured above the organisers of that event are now calling on law makers to meet them in town halls across the country. They’re calling it “Town Hall for Our Lives” and are pushing every single member of the House of Representatives to host a town hall on Saturday, April 7.
8. Jenny 8

   7 April 2018 at 4:42 am

   On reports that US conspiracy theorists calling themselves “patriots” have been harrassing the families of mass shooting victims in the US accusing them of being “crisis actors”.

   The “false flag” narrative has been spread and popularised wholesale by Western based conspiracy theorists to deny the genocide being carried out by the regime of Bashar Assad against the Syrian people.
   As a result Bashar Assad has become a cultural icon hero of the neo-nazis around the world, particularly the US.
   It may have been inevitable that these fruit loops would then take the “false flag” narrative one step further.

   https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/Comment/2017/8/17/Why-Nazis-love-Bashar-al-Assad
   • One Two 8.1

     7 April 2018 at 6:47 am

     The Syrian situation is too complex for comment such as this, which lack discernment…Jenny that is not good enough on such a serious issue…

     Gaza is closer to being black and white, where genuine genocide appears to be going on, among other atrocities which can be attributed to those who are committing them…

     As for the shootings in the USA… next to Syria and Gaza et al…there is no comparison…oh, and crisis actors are ‘a thing’…just as naz*s are too…

     The gun issue is for simple minds who don’t wish to address the wider issues around mental health and pharmaceutical products…which preceed the shootings…
     • Jenny 8.1.1

       7 April 2018 at 7:14 am

       The Syrian situation is too complex for comment such as this, which lack discernment…Jenny that is not good enough on such a serious issue…

       One Two

       OK. Here is a “Syrian situation” not to complex for anyone to give an opinion on

       To use One Two‘s words, is this not evidence of “where genuine genocide appears to be going on”?

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BSOJdSVtVE
       • One Two 8.1.1.1

         7 April 2018 at 8:51 am

         Jenny, in missing what I was actually saying you have endorsed the position I was making about your comments regarding Syria….

         Syria is too complex for your simplistic one sided comments…..in continuing to post myopic views you are doing a gross disservice to those who you seek to offer support for……

         Have you once, regarding Syria commented about the support, training, arming and funding by ‘The West/Saudi et al’ of various factions of jihadists mercenaries referred to as ‘moderate rebels’…..

         Have you commented on those who voted for the Assad government, who have been killed or maimed, lives destroyed by those same ‘moderate rebels’….

         Have you commented on how you would see the future governing of Syria following your clearly stated desire to rid Syria of the democratically elected Assad government……

         What might that future scenario look like in your opinion?

         I’ll give you my opinion….. Look at Libya for the probable outcome!
9. Jenny 9

   7 April 2018 at 4:23 pm

   Again another Assad apologist ignores the question.

   ‘Quick look over there. What about Libya?’

   Syria is too complex for your simplistic one sided comments…..in continuing to post myopic views you are doing a gross disservice to those who you seek to offer support for……

   One Two

   Why can’t you complete your sentence? It hardly makes sense.

   Who in your opinion One Two, do you think I am doing a “gross disservice” to?

   The refugees fleeing from the rebel city of Homs destroyed by Assad’s airforce?

   Or maybe, you think I am doing a disservice to the dead buried alive under their homes and apartments flattened by the regime?

   Or maybe, its the erstwhile rescuers trying to rescue civilians from the rubble of Assad’s genocidal air attacks, that you think I am doing a “gross disservice” to?

   (The same rescuers the regime and their supporters have labeled terrorists and marked for death).

   Why can’t you say it?

   Why won’t finish your sentence? Why won’t answer the question I asked?

   Who did this?

   And is it not evidence of “where genuine genocide” appears to be going on”?

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=0BSOJdSVtVE

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