Daily review 08/02/2022

55 comments on “Daily review 08/02/2022 ”

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1. Tiger Mountain 1

   8 February 2022 at 6:16 pm

   https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/feb/07/peter-thiel-meta-facebook-board-resign

   The yank we all love to have NZ citizenship…supporting Trump candidates in mid terms
2. Chris T 2

   8 February 2022 at 6:17 pm

   Interesting day in Welly. Glad I didn't have to go to work physically and then try to get to the bus station by parliament to get home.

   Seemed a fair bit of aggro and yelling going on.

   From a personal point of view, I tend to not really agree with mandates and forced stuff either. But tone it down.

   Protesting is fine and everyone has a right to do it, but far out. Way to just annoy normal Wellingtonians.
   • Anne 2.1

     8 February 2022 at 6:55 pm

     "Protesting is fine and everyone has a right to do it, but far out. Way to just annoy normal Wellingtonians."

     Good one Chris T.

     I've just watched a young lady journalist on TV1 news describing her team's experience at the start of the news which caused the cancellation of the live cross. She told it like she saw it, politely and with confidence. I think she was upset and I salute her for being brave enough to describe what happened and with honesty.

     If it comes up online I will link to it.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1

       8 February 2022 at 7:42 pm

       Yes, the new idea was the media is lying… but not the internet.. oh goddit!!
     • Anne 2.1.2

       8 February 2022 at 8:25 pm

       Can't see the link. Parliamentary security was present so they may have advised against it in case it incited violence.

       In a nutshell. The TV crew were on a balcony filming a group of protestors for a live cross at 6pm. The remaining protestors became very aggressive and were yelling abuse at them. Security made the film crew leave because they believed their presence was "inciting" the protestors.

       Pretty sad state of affairs when a TV crew are prevented from carrying out a legitimate function while a bunch of aggressive yobbos get off scot free intimidating and abusing them.
     • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.1.3

       8 February 2022 at 9:48 pm

       Yes, she did sound upset and a bit pissed off too. She also ridiculed the protesters, said one person held up a sign which said 'Masks cause cancer,' which she hastened to add, simply wasn't true.

       Too many of these anti-mandate fools have disappeared down a rabbit hole.
   • Macro 2.2

     8 February 2022 at 7:04 pm

     Sounds like a good way to win friends and influence people. /sarc
     • Macro 2.2.1

       8 February 2022 at 7:07 pm

       Maybe the govt should introduce a ban on dickheads on parliament grounds. Then they would have something to complain about.
       • weka 2.2.1.1

         8 February 2022 at 7:09 pm

         Nek minit, all protest is banned on parliament grounds by the next National govt.

         We shouldn't joke about this, the UK government just tried to pass legislation that would allow banning protest on spurious grounds and it was only stopped by the House of Lords.
     • Chris T 2.2.2

       8 February 2022 at 7:11 pm

       Irony is most of the protesters there are probably fully vaxed but the media coverage seems to portray them as anti-vaxers and not anti mandate, which is humorous. Their own fault though for not explaining them selves properly and they have stuffed my way to get to work so I find them annoying.

       TBF. That isn't exactly true. Could walk up the Terrace. But annoying as.
   • georgecom 2.3

     8 February 2022 at 8:10 pm

     I wonder how many of the arrest 'warrants' and search 'warrants' issued by the antivaxers over Waitangi weekend have been actioned. My pick is zero.

     A good publicity stunt if that was the intention, a good gimmick. But you get the idea these mobs didn't view it as a gimmick or a publicity stunt, they actually believe they had some sort of authority to do so. there's nowt so queer as folk as the saying goes
     • Chris T 2.3.1

       8 February 2022 at 8:24 pm

       TBF most seemed to be more anti-mandate than vax.

       Which I can kind of understand.

       She is a bit 1984
       • McFlock 2.3.1.1

         8 February 2022 at 8:30 pm

         That's the other thing that irks me mildly – folks always screw up the dystopian reference.

         It's not "1984". That was a system of thought control and secret police.

         A scan delivering a "valid" or "invalid" return, and those who are "invalid" are second class citizens (well, as the parade of fools see it)? That's Gattaca, only the "valid/invalid" determination was based on features well outside the control of the individuals being tested. That's the main difference. Another is the effect that choice has on the rest of society.
         • Chris T 2.3.1.1.1

           8 February 2022 at 8:45 pm

           Actually you are right Gattaca is a better analogy.

           If you do not meet these standards you will be ostricised.

           Dude just faked it though.

           I mean seriously I don't actually care that much. Have a newly lamenated vax cert' as I had to get one to keep my job. But (and it might just me and my inner touchy feely) ain't that comfortable with excluding people from every day life stuff because a govt says you do this or you will be.

           The odd thing to me is the left who I thought would be mostly the same, (freedom of choice and stuff) seem to be so the other way.

           Guess it is one of those times because it is a Labour govt it is ok.

           As I said. It looks more anti mandate than vax, as given 96% or something of people are vaxed. It seems to me to be manipulating their message.
           • Anne 2.3.1.1.1.1

             8 February 2022 at 8:53 pm

             It is only a temporary measure brought about by the Delta variant. Expires in May. I'm happy with it because it gives me the security of knowing that when I go to certain places I can feel reasonably assured that unvaccinated people will not be present. I'm a member of the elderly brigade and that assurance is important to us.
             • Chris T …

               8 February 2022 at 9:06 pm

               Fair point and I happen to be in a position where my wife unfortunately falls into the category of probably the most vulnerable if they get it.

               I just find it an interesting thing to wonder what it would be like at this time if Labour were in opposition and the Nats were making mandates.

               I don't think either should be doing it personally in some ways. I am vaxed.

               And there is probably more chance of being king hit and brain dead or stabbed down Courtney Place these days at a weekend than getting Covid
             • Shanreagh …

               8 February 2022 at 11:16 pm

               @ Anne,,,Me to I travelled north at the time the convoy was travelling south and what a rag tag mob. I did note a large number of utes with sole male occupants of the age 30-50 who are the ones who seem intensely threatened by Jacinda Ardern as a youngish, smart, pleasant looking person who is doing a good job. very few trucks. No effort made to let trucks going about there jbs to get through when the lanes turned to one lane in parts…Police were out and may have got them though later.

               When I returned I thought I would have a look. They have parked in the grounds of the Old Wooden Buildings, which is part of the University now and across median strips and up on the concrete around the Cenotaph Monument at the bottom of Bowen st. Molesworth st is blocked. I don't know how far up.

               Not a mask to be seen. We have a meeting tomorrow night near the Cathedral which is across the road from Parliament. Oldies and younger ones go and we enforce masking. Many cannot walk long distances so hopefully they have not parked in the church grounds. I will check with the police in case we have to cancel.

               These people looked a bit rough and ready and contrary to what they said there were anti vax signs,,,Jabcinda etc, save our children, stop poisoning our children, I call the shots with a needle picture. So a bit of bull kaka going on.

               However as PM says this too will pass. I worry about the beautiful gardens and grounds around the Old Wooden Buildings, the monument and parliament though we have had smaller occupations in the grounds of parliament that have been moved on.

               I must admit I was surprised that the Police let the vehicles come this close instead of funnelling them off into area around the stadium/wharf and then getting them to walk. Wellington has many 'walking' protests.

               I hope they are going to leave when asked, though I somehow doubt it. They are a minority but a noisy lot. Hope they don't cause trouble for the residents who live across from Parliament. They will have had their vehicular access blocked.
           • McFlock 2.3.1.1.1.2

             8 February 2022 at 8:59 pm

             There are two directions to go if the govt changes from the current, sensible, and specific to this situation public health measures: make everyone work under the current rules for unvaccinated people regardless of vaccination status, or let 'er rip.

             96% of people not going to bars because some dickheads don't want a jab or a vax pass? Yeah that'll go down like a cup of cold sick.

             Skyrocketing cases and admissions because we let unvaccinated people go to events, get drunk and yell at each other as if they're invulnerable to disease? Well, that would be stupid.

             Any other bright ideas to satisfy the fringe percentages while killing as few people as possible? Because a largely overlapping crowd of folk don't like masks, either. So they'll have a wee convoy about that, then.
             • Chris T …

               8 February 2022 at 9:19 pm

               I just personally don't care going to a bar with 96% vaxed without having to have some sort of govt enforced pass to do it.

               I am vaxed. I hang out with vaxed people, because I don't hang out with thick people.

               I wouldn't be sitting any where near some dumb hick anti vaxer.

               But I don't personally think they should be not allowed a haircut if wearing a mask, or buy a coffee, or picking up a takeaway if wearing a mask.

               It is silly.

               Just out of interest, You seem to be quite in agreement with the mandates. Do you mind explaining why they didn't include supermarkets given fruit and vege handling and bottle stores?
               • arkie …

                 8 February 2022 at 9:26 pm

                 Mandates increase vaccination rates:

                 In the first known research of its kind, medical journal The Lancet published a study on Monday that measured the impact of COVID-19 vaccine mandates in six countries—France, Italy, Israel, Denmark, Germany, and Switzerland—and compared them with 19 countries with no widespread restrictions on unvaccinated people.

                 …

                 Most striking of all was the effect of hard-line rules imposed by governments. “Mandatory COVID-19 certification was associated with a sharp increase in vaccination rates before implementation and had a long-lasting effect, with above-average rates after implementation,” the study said.

                 https://fortune.com/2021/12/14/covid-19-vaccine-mandates-passports-increase-jab-rates-lancet-study-finds/
                 • Chris T …

                   8 February 2022 at 9:33 pm

                   That is fantastic thanks.

                   But it is currently 8/2/2022 and we have about 94-96% vaxed depending on sources.

                   Not 2 years ago when the govt were trying to get people vaxed.

                   Don't get me wrong. They did a good job.

                   But there are limits to peoples patience when it is obvious the politicians are now just doing it for PR

                   Edit: Sorry. 1 year ago
                   • arkie …

                     8 February 2022 at 9:38 pm

                     As you have been informed above, they are temporary measures, and as Omicron is a different beast and requires a round of booster vaccinations, things change.

                     So instead of being silly, the mandates are still being used to encourage booster uptake. Public health isn’t it.
               • McFlock …

                 8 February 2022 at 9:30 pm

                 Essential services. Even the liquor, in nz lol.

                 Frankly I don't think the govt goes far enough, but then I'm biased: I want the disease eliminated. For a start, no travel violation would be payable by fine: home D or incarceration. No fucking around with fines.

                 As for you not wanting to sit next to unvaxxed individuals in a bar, how would you know? The only sign is the vax pass. That's why they had to develop it.
                 • Chris T …

                   8 February 2022 at 9:44 pm

                   "

                   As for you not wanting to sit next to unvaxxed individuals in a bar, how would you know? The only sign is the vax pass. That's why they had to develop it."

                   I think you missed my point.

                   Probably my fault not explaining well enough.

                   I wouldn't care.

                   I am vaccinated.

                   Same as walking past someone in a shop. On the street. Some one sneezing in front of me. Putting my recycling bin back in on a Monday morning someone toushed. Catching a cab or Uber. Catching a bus. Standing next to someone buying 5 corn cobs for 6 bucks from New World.Shaking hands in a work meeting. Touching your keyboard at work after cleaners were in first thing.

                   All fine. But hey. If you don't have a vax cert like me I can't give you a haircut or serve you a pint and chicken wings.

                   I actually find it quite laughable
                   • McFlock …

                     8 February 2022 at 9:48 pm

                     Oh, so you just wouldn't sit next to them because they're dumb? Fair enough.

                     Again, what do you think the repercussions might be if the no-pass restrictions were loosened up? Would it "flatten the curve" or make the curve higher? Or no effect whatsoever?
                   • Chris T …

                     8 February 2022 at 9:57 pm

                     I personally think we have kind of reached peak vaccinated.

                     Govt did a really good job.

                     No it might sound harsh, but now they have achieved it we just have to bite the bullet and roll with it.

                     There is going to be an inevitable number of people that die from the thing, but they will probably have prior conditions, and can't see the ECUs being overwhelmed now our vaccine levels are so high.

                     I know vulnerable people and realise the implications but we can't live life like that kid in the boy in the bubble movie from years ago.
                   • Chris T …

                     8 February 2022 at 10:02 pm

                     Let me give you an example.

                     I don't see anyone having to have their kid have an official govt sanctioned certificate to let their kids play with other kids to prove they weren't stupid enough to refuse to give them the MMR vaccine
                   • weka …

                     8 February 2022 at 10:07 pm

                     well at least you are honest about the 'let 'em die' position.

                     I personally think we have kind of reached peak vaccinated.

                     You do know we're in the middle of a major boost programme, aimed at protecting the health system from omicron overrune, right?

                     No it might sound harsh, but now they have achieved it we just have to bite the bullet and roll with it.

                     Roll with what? If we don't slow omicron, more people will die, the health system will be overrun, and more people will probably get long covid.

                     There is going to be an inevitable number of people that die from the thing, but they will probably have prior conditions,

                     I'd really like this one explained. Why does a prior condition mean it's more ok for them to die?

                     I know vulnerable people and realise the implications but we can't live life like that kid in the boy in the bubble movie from years ago.

                     Just as well no-one is saying live like the boy in the bubble. Literally no-one.
                   • weka …

                     8 February 2022 at 10:07 pm

                     sorry, not quite true. Some people are in fact arguing that elderly and people with prior conditions should be more like the boy in the bubble.
                   • aj …

                     8 February 2022 at 10:18 pm

                     All fine. But hey. If you don't have a vax cert like me I can't give you a haircut or serve you a pint and chicken wings.

                     I actually find it quite laughable

                     And many – most of us – find it quite sensible.
                   • Chris T …

                     8 February 2022 at 10:27 pm

                     Sorry. Reply button has done the disappearing act in later posts again.

                     Weka

                     I am not saying no more masks and precautions and promoting booster and stuff.

                     But what I am saying is businesses are literally dying. And with our number of now fully vaxxed to keep saying the hospitals will explode is getting tired. It had a point originally but has lost the impact.

                     And no offence, but you are putting words in posts I didn't say.

                     "Why does a prior condition mean it's more ok for them to die?"

                     That is not what I said. I am not ok with anyone dying. But we have this thing called realism.

                     I said there will be an inevitable amount of people that will die with prior conditions.

                     I mean what is it you lot want exactly? Cut off all ties with the western world? No over seas flights?

                     My Grandmother used to talk about growing up during the blitz in London and seeing bits of left over hands and feet hanging out of concrete and here we are on an internet forum talking about this crap.

                     EDIT: Apologies. Re-reading that it sounds a bit ranty. Didn’t mean it to be 🙂
                   • McFlock …

                     8 February 2022 at 10:37 pm

                     More people have died in the UK from covid than died in the Blitz.

                     Several times the number if you want to play "with not from" with a hell of a margin for error.
                   • Chris T …

                     8 February 2022 at 10:53 pm

                     Sorry I shouldn't have brought up that example. Just was something from memory.

                     It brings up too many arguments about population growth etc between each. And just gets annoying.

                     What I would say regarding the examples. We are a pimple on the arse end of the world. We have one of the hlowest population per area rates in the world.

                     And the current government did a very good job at initially cutting it off at the pass.

                     We are in a very privileged position compared to countries in Europe or India etc.

                     But we can't sit like quivering mice for ever. Given our vax rates at some stage we just need to get on with it.

                     It may mean someone I know dies. or even me. But it is that or the countries economy.
                   • McFlock …

                     8 February 2022 at 11:05 pm

                     Why do we have an economy, if not for people? Sacrificing people for the economy is the wrong way around, imo.

                     People have been denigrating our covid controls for years, and it always comes down to being so very far away that few people come here so it's easy to eliminate, yet we're all slowly dying of economic stagnation because so many people came here before 2020 and now can't.

                     Seems to me to be a contradiction.
                   • Nic the NZer …

                     8 February 2022 at 11:09 pm

                     Post discussing research into vaccine mandates and their impacts. The studies find that vaccine mandates have had positive outcomes in terms of both lives saved and the state of the economy.

                     http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=49040

                     There is strong evidence that positive health outcomes are aligned with better economic outcomes, not that these are in opposition at all. I agree its more complex than this, but if your model of the economy concludes with these things being traded off then its clearly missing the economic point of how a country actually functions somewhere in its reasoning because they are positively correlated together.
                   • Chris T …

                     8 February 2022 at 11:24 pm

                     Sorry Nic, but I am not discounting or arguing against your points.

                     But we are now at about 94-96% vaxxed. Which is awesome.

                     The things they did worked fantastic and we are one of the highest in the world

                     But enough is enough with the alienation of those that aren't.

                     I get politicians like Ardern like to prance numbers out but it is done as good as it will get.

                     Probably just a personal thing and know I am going on about it, but it is seriously getting on my tits having to hand over a piece of plastic covered paper to show I am allowed to buy fish and chips. Then walk next door to the dairy and just buy stuff, or go next to that to the supermarket and use a trolley someone may have just snotted over, then head over the road to the bottle store without doing it.

                     It is just stupid
                   • weka …

                     9 February 2022 at 8:21 am

                     Weka

                     I am not saying no more masks and precautions and promoting booster and stuff.

                     But what I am saying is businesses are literally dying. And with our number of now fully vaxxed to keep saying the hospitals will explode is getting tired. It had a point originally but has lost the impact.

                     But the evidence says that if we don't take all reasonable precautions more people will die, and the health system will be overrun, and probably more people will get covid. You seem to think that the two vaccinations protect well against omicron, but its the booster that is going to make the difference, alongside all the other tools we are using.

                     There are compelling reasons for taking public health caution.

                     And no offence, but you are putting words in posts I didn't say.

                     "Why does a prior condition mean it's more ok for them to die?"

                     That is not what I said. I am not ok with anyone dying. But we have this thing called realism.

                     I said there will be an inevitable amount of people that will die with prior conditions.

                     I didn't ask "Why does a prior condition mean it's ok for people to die?" I asked this, a very specific question,

                     "Why does a prior condition mean it's more ok for them to die?"

                     I'm asking why you feel the need to say this and qualify it with the prior condition thing.

                     There is going to be an inevitable number of people that die from the thing, but they will probably have prior conditions…

                     What's the point of saying 'prior condition'?

                     I mean what is it you lot want exactly? Cut off all ties with the western world? No over seas flights?

                     Personally, I'd be happy if we don't reopen the borders to international tourism and we pivot to integrating covid response and climate action by changing our culture and societal expectations around international travel. This doesn't mean no flights and it doesn't mean cutting off ties with the western world (not sure why western matters). But it does mean for instance that flying to Sydney for the weekend for a shopping trip should stop.

                     We should be figuring out now how to transition business models and jobs because this won't be the last pandemic and the climate and ecology crises are going to cause much more disruption than the past few years.

                     My Grandmother used to talk about growing up during the blitz in London and seeing bits of left over hands and feet hanging out of concrete and here we are on an internet forum talking about this crap.

                     Yeah, well my current mood is ffs, harden up, imagine of this was WW2 and people were complaining about not being able to go to concerts or whatever. Or they decided to act against the collective good and not cover their windows during the bombings.
3. Anker 3

   8 February 2022 at 6:17 pm

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127674468/acts-david-seymour-mocks-red-queen-jacinda-ardern-in-stateofnation-speech

   Patricia B ask a question about whether David Seymour Red Queen speech was pre, post or during polling for Reid Research which had Act on 8%. The poll ended on the 4th and Seymour’s speech was on the 3rd
   • Patricia Bremner 3.1

     8 February 2022 at 7:47 pm

     Thanks Anker Much appreciated. So we don't yet have a measure of the impact as that is too late in the cycle.
4. Anker 4

   8 February 2022 at 6:20 pm

   • Interesting that Lincoln College are getting rid of the term Head boy and girl. Item on both One and three news. Will there be a quota of female to male heads?
   • how does this fit with Labours quota for women and Greens female and male co leadership
   • weka 4.1

     8 February 2022 at 6:22 pm

     Greens are revising their co-leader policy apparently.
     • weka 4.1.1

       8 February 2022 at 6:23 pm

       If they end up with two male co-leaders, of whatever identity, I expect them to lose support.
       • arkie 4.1.1.1

         8 February 2022 at 6:46 pm

         Do you see the membership voting for that?
         • weka 4.1.1.1.1

           8 February 2022 at 7:02 pm

           I can't remember what the proposed replacement policy is, it's not as straight forward as removing sex as a criteria, and might still protect women's places.

           So I don't know what the membership would vote for, or even if it would go to the whole membership. Do you know?

           I do know that the GP has suppressed and excluded gender critical feminists from some party processes.
           • arkie 4.1.1.1.1.1

             8 February 2022 at 7:08 pm

             I know that the co-leadership positions are voted on, and I find it hard to believe that such an arrangement would win in that vote.
             • weka …

               8 February 2022 at 9:44 pm

               This from a year ago, one potential is that at least one of the co-leaders has to be female.

               https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-new-leadership-model-afoot-for-the-greens

               The problem there is the push from identity activists internationally to define trans women as female. Which would present many problems in the party and in government.

               Hopefully the Greens won't go down that track, but we know that internationally there are left parties with males in females positions.
               • Sabine …

                 8 February 2022 at 10:24 pm

                 well, while the German Greens still have a 'woman' as a co-leader, they do however have elected to males onto the women lists as they self identify as woman.

                 And who better to explain to women what women are then a bunch of blokes. Good times Weka, Good times. What ever rights the likes of us thought we had as a protected category, we no longer have. No longer equal, or even just at parity.
       • Obtrectator 4.1.1.2

         9 February 2022 at 9:33 am

         They will from me.
     • Sabine 4.1.2

       8 February 2022 at 10:22 pm

       that was to be expected.
   • Tiger Mountain 4.2

     8 February 2022 at 6:29 pm

     Just call them all knobheads-conferred ceremonial school leadership titles both acknowledge aspirational crawlers and archaic hierarchys.
     • Peter 4.2.1

       8 February 2022 at 6:40 pm

       You mean like captains of sports teams?
5. joe90 5

   8 February 2022 at 7:40 pm

   Poots gets his Khrushchev on.

   https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1490754620129427459

   https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1490803772217507842
   • Scud 5.1

     8 February 2022 at 9:40 pm

     Ha ha, Vlad has checked mated Macron! Silly little Frenchman what was he expecting from Vlad?
     • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 5.1.1

       9 February 2022 at 5:27 am

       To be impaled?
6. Whispering Kate 6

   9 February 2022 at 11:02 am

   lprent thanks for the advice re the Amazon Fire. Hubby cleared out the device and somehow we managed to get today' date up and the red notice has gone.

   Thanks for all you do on this site much appreciated. You and yours look after each other during the pandemic kia kaha

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