Daily Review 09/02/2018

47 comments on “Daily Review 09/02/2018 ”

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1. Ed 1

   9 February 2018 at 6:36 pm

   Bomber Bradbury nails it on the economy again.
   I have been trying to generate a discussion on the Standard for a while about the coming crisis.
   It seems there is a complacency by many posters here.

   “We have a global economy that has been fed $15Trillion in quantitive easing, $10Trillion in bonds and the lowest inflation rates for 5000 years. This market is so distorted now that the computer algorithms are mercilessly punishing human greed by forcing massive technical corrections.
   But don’t panic.”

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/02/09/another-dow-jones-1033-point-meltdown-dont-panic-do-panic-the-conflicting-messages-being-fed-to-the-nz-public/
   • McFlock 1.1

     9 February 2018 at 6:39 pm

     What’s the point of panic?
     • Ed 1.1.1

       9 February 2018 at 6:51 pm

       Panic serves no one.
       Nor does ignorance.
       • Pat 1.1.1.1

         9 February 2018 at 7:12 pm

         theres enough panic in the markets,,,as to discussion, well really theres sweet FA to be done about it…the elites will pull whatever levers they can, some will crash and burn, everyone will pay the cost in the long run…so BAU.

         As we have been advised for some time now the best thing you can do is reduce debt and keep your fingers crossed.
         • Ed 1.1.1.1.1

           9 February 2018 at 7:20 pm

           I agree with your conclusions.
           It would be good if we projected that message to as many people as possible.

           Reduce debt.

           Reduce debt.

           Reduce debt.
           • Pat 1.1.1.1.1.1

             9 February 2018 at 7:38 pm

             thats individuals…not governments (although i will qualify that lest I sound like a magic money tree advocate)
           • Ad 1.1.1.1.1.2

             9 February 2018 at 8:19 pm

             Reduce debt is bang on message, for the NZ private sector.
         • weka 1.1.1.1.2

           9 February 2018 at 7:31 pm

           the people that can can support local economies. When tshtf we will have a better chance at finding a decent way through.

           I’m less bothered by the thought of a GFC than I am by the thought that it might not be enough to monkey wrench the carbon economy.
           • Pat 1.1.1.1.2.1

             9 February 2018 at 7:34 pm

             unfortunately when the hit comes its those at the bottom that suffer the most….perversely they are the ones that are not the cause….go figure
             • weka …

               9 February 2018 at 7:41 pm

               Yep. Also the ones who will suffer most from climate change. Hoping some people are going wake up and do something, may as well get to it.
             • OncewasTim …

               10 February 2018 at 2:53 am

               Which is why many were hoping the crash would have come a long time ago.
               The harder they rise the harder they fall. Lessons never learnt…..or in neoliberalese: learnings never learned.
               • OncewasTim …

                 10 February 2018 at 3:13 am

                 I think I must be in the minority amongst the boomer chort.
                 Gave my kuds there legacy long before I was due to pop my clogs…including passing on the family house/home conditional on my being able to live in gramps quarters till expiry…with the benefit of becoming utterly debt-free.
                 What was going to be the point of acquiring treats and trinkets…wants rather than needs that often end up discarded.
                 Bring on the crash really…the sooner the better, and when it comes, hopefully there’ll be a govt that makes those rrsponsible for it remember the pronciples of the welfare state so that we don’t see corpses hanging from lamp posts
                 Or Thiels and other neolib larrikins coming to their multimillion dollar bolt holes.
           • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.2.2

             9 February 2018 at 8:36 pm

             My experience is that many are just going along with the ride doing half-hearted things to integrate with the community. Things are planned to fit into a trend line that doesn’t take into account cataclysmic natural disasters or a severe disruption of the finance market as it swallows its own tail or something.

             Think of the Hindenberg and how amazing and how quickly it crashed and burned. Present practical help is withheld and thought for the future – seed banks in Sandinavia but with the overview of governments, all we have is whimsical richies.
         • Ms Fargo 1.1.1.1.3

           9 February 2018 at 8:17 pm

           Agree. Also wish to include that great quote from Bridge of Spies;

           James Donovan: Aren’t you worried?
           Rudolf Abel: Would that help?
       • McFlock 1.1.1.2

         9 February 2018 at 7:43 pm

         If we can’t do anything, why do we need to know?
         • Pat 1.1.1.2.1

           9 February 2018 at 7:49 pm

           I guess you could always stick your fingers in your ears and go nah nah….we cant do anything to prevent it is what I should have said…i guess at an individual level you can make decisions to reduce the impact.
           • McFlock 1.1.1.2.1.1

             9 February 2018 at 8:18 pm

             It’s a genuine question. I already live with the threat of losing my job. I don’t have a mortgage, I rent. I lucked out in the GFC, and the dotcom crash didn’t hit me because I wasn’t active in the sharemarket. I have a retirement fund now, but wtf am I gonna do – not bother saving? That just makes me happier now until I’m fucked, rather than leaving open the chance I might not be fucked.

             I’m already pretty happy. Might as well take the chance not to be fucked. And folk like Ed have been predicting doom for years. If I’d listened to them then, I’d have 1000litres of stale petrol I stockpiled before peak oil caused Mad Max syndrome in 2012.

             But what should I be doing differently to lessen my personal impact from this coming collapse?
             • Pat …

               9 February 2018 at 8:27 pm

               seek the advice of a financial advisor (of which i am not).
               • McFlock …

                 9 February 2018 at 8:41 pm

                 Fair enough then. Economic collapse is a problem that might occur, we don’t know when, people are vague on the precise nature of it, and I’d require specialist advice to confront it.

                 So I’ll worry about it as much as I worry about the possibility of getting cancer.
                 • weka …

                   9 February 2018 at 9:03 pm

                   I think a GFC is significantly more likely in your lifetime than an asteroid hitting the planet 😉
                   • McFlock …

                     9 February 2018 at 9:19 pm

                     Very true, but with economists being unable to predict short term fluctuations or sudden shifts in longer term trends with any uniformity or statistical reliability, we therefore can’t see the GFCs coming.

                     Once we can see the near earth objects, the rest is just plain math :p
                   • weka …

                     9 February 2018 at 10:33 pm

                     I’d never suggest we should rely on economists 🙂
             • weka …

               9 February 2018 at 9:02 pm

               1000L of petrol won’t do you much good. You’re meant to be stashing gold apparently.

               Me, I think it all comes down to who we have good relationships with when the shtf.
               • mikes …

                 10 February 2018 at 10:45 am

                 If the shit really hits the fan, I mean really really as in no power, no technology, no such thing as money, etc and we go into a state of complete chaos and anarchy (like the walking dead, but without the zombies) then there’s going to be a large majority who simply aren’t going to survive.

                 I’m amazed at the number of people I know, especially the younger generations, who wouldn’t even know where to start in terms of simply having enough know how to get food and create shelter, start a fire, catch a fish, stay warm, etc,etc. Something such as realizing that you may have to kill other living things to survive would be a defining moment for many people.

                 Teach your children how to live off the land, even if it’s just the bare minimum basics!

                 Eat the rich! (hehe)
                 • weka …

                   10 February 2018 at 12:56 pm

                   I know what you mean. Even being able to cook from scratch seems to be a dying skill.

                   I think a GFC that collapsed the global economy to an extent wouldn’t necessarily mean a fast move to no power etc. For instance in NZ, the infrastructure would still be in place and I’m fairly sure the technical people would keep at least parts of the grid going even if the companies they work for had fallen over. But a big shock for people for sure, and what we’ve done to our water will be the dairy chickens coming home to roost big time.
                 • Robert Guyton …

                   10 February 2018 at 1:08 pm

                   ” (like the walking dead, but without the zombies)”
                   Do you think ACT will have ceased to exist by then?
                 • AB …

                   11 February 2018 at 8:46 am

                   We could all go round to James’s place and barbecue his cows?
2. Chuck 2

   9 February 2018 at 6:38 pm

   “The editorial highlight’s that Tamihere “struggled with the possibility that Labour was in ‘retreat’ from promises made to Maori on the campaign trail”,

   “Labour and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern have been signalling that this Government is departing from the traditional culturalist and “race-based” approach to dealing with Maori deprivation and economic inequality.”

   Ok…I wonder how much Winston had to play in this? That 33 or 38-page coalition manual would sure be interesting to read.

   BTW I think it makes sense. But this will be very contentious for the Maori MPs.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11991259
3. Ed 3

   9 February 2018 at 6:40 pm

   How bad are Fletchers problems?
   There is word out there it’s a lot more serious than just building….
   • Stunned Mullet 3.1

     9 February 2018 at 6:48 pm

     Bidding for multi million dollar tenders at half the price of the cost of completing a project will tend to stuff your business pretty fast.
     • Chuck 3.1.1

       9 February 2018 at 8:46 pm

       Agree questions need to be asked. The Fletchers board of directors must be feeling a little nervous now.
       • patricia bremner 3.1.1.1

         9 February 2018 at 11:15 pm

         Fletchers have 4 divisions. It is the construction arm which is in strife. They have separated the trouble into one pile. Just as Fisher and Paykel Ltd did.
     • Graeme 3.1.2

       9 February 2018 at 11:33 pm

       That behaviour is rather common in the infrastructure sector. I’ve seen all the major players do it, generally to crush little players. But also to “build market share”
     • bwaghorn 3.1.3

       10 February 2018 at 12:54 pm

       thats ok , i bet the gov will bail the fuckers out and the bosses will get bonuses
   • OncewasTim 3.2

     10 February 2018 at 3:24 am

     Is it fletcherous?
     As in the Chch rebuild has been utterly fletcherous.
     Something that encompasses
     Appaling, pathetic, rip shod winkle, Browwnlees, yea/nah, fullyaboots hogan, lycra and fluorescent vests, substandard fixes, the worst projek menujmunt known to men….etc
4. Anne 4

   9 February 2018 at 7:42 pm

   Is this ‘Tony Wright’ for real or is the following link an attempt at satire?

   http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/02/why-new-zealand-should-have-its-own-military-parade.html
   • weka 4.1

     9 February 2018 at 7:46 pm

     I really can’t tell.
     • Tony Veitch (not etc) 4.1.1

       10 February 2018 at 4:13 am

       Which is the definition of good satire!
5. weka 5

   9 February 2018 at 7:44 pm

   Bloody good read from Megan Whelan on learning to live well in a fat body in a fatphobic society,

   https://www.kspw.nz/stories/2018/2/8/representation
   • Kay 5.1

     9 February 2018 at 8:41 pm

     +1 Excellent read, thanks for that link weka
   • mikes 5.2

     10 February 2018 at 11:06 am

     Seems like she learned all sorts of things other than learning how to get herself healthier.

     The term fatphobic is ridiculous. Phobic implies an irrational fear of something. It is completely rational to fear being fat and the associated problems that come with it.

     Even if you just look at it from the reality that if you are obese then you are not only shortening your life but also putting your life in immediate danger through hugely increased risks of things such as heart disease, heart failure, breathing difficulties, back and spinal damage, organ failures, etc,etc,etc.

     Then there’s the whole mental health and societal side of things to contend with as well.

     The facts are that just as smoking greatly increases the risk of early, avoidable death, so does eating too much and moving too little, which are far and away the main cause of obesity.

     We should be helping obese people to become healthier and to feel good about their bodies as they become healthier, not telling them that it’s ok or somehow a good thing to be obese, because it’s not.
     • weka 5.2.1

       10 February 2018 at 11:43 am

       It’s a myth that fat people can’t be healthy. That’s pretty easy to look up. Likewise, there are negative health incomes from trying to diet or force oneself to lose weight.

       By your argument the term homophobic is ridiculous because people don’t really fear gay people.

       “It is completely rational to fear being fat and the associated problems that come with it.”

       Well obviously for some people about themselves, but why are you afraid of someone else being fat?

       “Even if you just look at it from the reality that if you are obese then you are not only shortening your life but also putting your life in immediate danger through hugely increased risks of things such as heart disease, heart failure, breathing difficulties, back and spinal damage, organ failures, etc,etc,etc.”

       Again, there are large people who aren’t any any more risk of those things. This is a big misunderstanding, that fat equates to heart disease, whereas it can be a correlation rather than a cause. You’re also talking about fatness as if it’s all one thing. If you had listened to what Megan was saying she was saying that women start getting prejudice against them once they’re above a size 12. You seem to think women who are a size 14 are obese, or at least your political argument is lumping everyone into on category of fatness and making judgements about them all. That is the very definition of prejudice.

       “Then there’s the whole mental health and societal side of things to contend with as well.”

       That’s right. Fatphobia harms people’s mental health and has huge impacts on their social lives. You blame fat people, who often have no control over their weight. I blame people who hate on fat people (and the medical profession and health authorities who are driving fat phobia).

       “The facts are that just as smoking greatly increases the risk of early, avoidable death, so does eating too much and moving too little, which are far and away the main cause of obesity.”

       Actually not. It’s not my area, but my understanding is that body fat comes for a range of reasons. For instance middle aged women will put on weight because their bodies are designed to going into menopause. The heart disease etc cluster you refer to is probably caused by insulin resistance, and insulin resistance can likewise cause weight gain. Dieting often makes that worse, and a large % of people who diet cannot maintain that no matter how hard they try because of the way their metabolism works. If it were just a matter of eating less and moving more, then all the fat people who eat less and move more wouldn’t be fat.

       If you want to learn about this, try reading Gary Taube’s book The Diet Delusion. He’s a science journalist, and in the book he looks at physiology, the history of fat research, the problem with the dietary fat hypothesis, underlying causes of weight gain as well as Syndrome X etc. It’s a real eye opener.

       You could also try reading women who are writing about fat politics from a deeply informed place on issues of dieting, health, social issues etc.

       Beyond all that, whatever we believe about fatness, there is zero excuse for treating people badly based on body shape or size. I think you failed to understand the point of Megan Whelan’s story.
       • mikes 5.2.1.1

         11 February 2018 at 5:47 pm

         “Actually not. It’s not my area, but my understanding is that body fat comes for a range of reasons.”

         – Yep it’s not your area. The largest cause of obesity by far is eating too much and exercising too little.

         “This is a big misunderstanding, that fat equates to heart disease, whereas it can be a correlation rather than a cause.”

         – Not according to this study.. (One of plenty)
         http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/17/you-cant-be-both-obese-and-healthy-says-study-of-3-5-million-people-6643188/

         “It’s a myth that fat people can’t be healthy.”

         – If you’re referring to the small number of studies which show that obese middle aged are at no greater risk of a heart attack you’ll note these studies also say that this is true but only if they exercise. Which relates to the “moving too little” part of my statement. Regardless, the overwhelming body of evidence shows that obesity is not healthy.

         “By your argument the term homophobic is ridiculous because people don’t really fear gay people. ”

         Ummm..no. Even though someone with an irrational fear of gay people would be hard to find, fear of gay people (because they are gay) is irrational so the term homophobic is valid. (But maybe gayphobic would be a better term) Whereas fear of being fat is rational due to the many negative consequences of being fat, hence ‘fatphobic’ is invalid. Regardless, “society” can’t be any phobic, only individuals can. Even if there was a ‘Society for people with an irrational fear of fat’, that society would not be fatphobic, the people within it would be.

         “You blame fat people, who often have no control over their weight. I blame people who hate on fat people”

         – No. I didn’t blame fat people for anything. You say that someone is fat because of people hating on fat people….that’s absurd.

         “The heart disease etc cluster you refer to is probably caused by insulin resistance, and insulin resistance can likewise cause weight gain.”

         – The leading causes of insulin resistance are being overweight or obese, having a high-calorie diet, high-carbohydrate or high-sugar diet and having a sedentary lifestyle – taking little physical activity

         “For instance middle aged women will put on weight because their bodies are designed to going into menopause.”

         – Not according to the International Menopause Society
         https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121016084938.htm

         You also mention diets (in the context of ‘going on a diet’) and dieting a number of times in your response. I didn’t say anything about dieting, don’t confuse what I actually said “eating too much” with me somehow suggesting dieting is good. Eating too much doesn’t mean you must diet, it would be better to just not eat too much. (“too much” being the important words)

         “You could also try reading women who are writing about fat politics from a deeply informed place on issues of dieting, health, social issues etc.”

         – Why on earth would I want to do that??? I’m not interested one tiny little bit in “fat politics” (whatever that is)

         “Beyond all that, whatever we believe about fatness, there is zero excuse for treating people badly based on body shape or size.”

         – Totally agree and I haven’t treated anyone badly (today) (I think) and I didn’t suggest in any way whatsoever that we should treat people badly based on body shape or size, or for any other reason. We shouldn’t treat people badly full stop. Suggesting to someone that it’s OK to be obese is treating someone badly.

         “I think you failed to understand the point of Megan Whelan’s story.”

         – Good for you. Although apart from the first sentence of my comment, which I believe is perfectly valid based upon her article, my entire comment wasn’t a reply to her story it was a reply to your comment. That aside, to me the point of her story wasn’t about whether being fat is healthy or not, it was more that we should treat people kindly, which is an entirely worthwhile and desirable thing.. IMO.
6. Ed 6

   9 February 2018 at 10:50 pm

   Learn about Syria.
   This brilliant and brave independent journalist is worth every one of the 40 minutes.
7. weka 7

   9 February 2018 at 11:09 pm

   Anyone know how much money you need in a bank account to get into NZ on a visitor or working holiday visa?
   • Pat 7.1

     9 February 2018 at 11:16 pm

     “This differs by nationality, but for Immigration purposes, you generally need to be able to show a minimum of NZ$350 a month or NZ$4200 for 12 months to meet living costs requirements while you’re here. A copy of your bank statement may be sufficient evidence of your available funds.

     However, keep in mind that this is only the amount that Immigration New Zealand requires to prove you have enough funds to sustain your time in New Zealand. Your actual costs will vary based on what job you obtain and the amount of travel to do.”

     https://www.newzealand.com/int/feature/working-holiday-frequently-asked-questions/
     • weka 7.1.1

       10 February 2018 at 11:46 am

       thanks, was just wanting to know what the beg packer couple would have needed to get into the country. I don’t know what visa they have (he’s Australian, she’s German) but I’m guessing it’s a working holiday or a visitor’s one.

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